 YouTube team keep it clean. What's going on is engraving here with another video and in this video I am joined by several other Ravens YouTube personalities, and I'm gonna go ahead and let them introduce themselves Fred. Go ahead and get us started, man I'm a appreciate you have me on as always. I'm Fred from Birdland BS We're a Baltimore based sports podcast. You can find us on on YouTube Twitter. Everything is Birdland BS Looking forward to this debate. This should be a fun show All right, and Joe Nubow. What's up, man? What's up team keep it clean? Yeah, I just make Raven's videos on YouTube. It's funny because there's Sonny's face on there, but it's all good Can you guys hear me? I feel like my maybe my mic's too low. I don't know okay. All right. Yeah I just make pretty much Raven's videos on YouTube. I also talk about pretty much the whole NFL What's going on? Twitter Instagram, it's all Joe Nubow if you guys want to be a noob join me subscribe. I like it Alright, and I got Sonny. What's up, Sonny? What's up guys? I do Ravens I do Oreos, and I'm gonna and I do wizards videos You can find me in IG SCG sports YouTube SCG sports and Twitter SCG sport. I'm ready for this All right, and for those of you that may be a little tech illiterate The links to all the YouTube channels are down below in the description. So I already took care of that for you so Just to get straight into it without beating around the bush Shout out to everybody that joined us tonight to everybody that's up in here right now Make sure after you leave a like on the video Make sure you go subscribe to all three of these guys YouTube channels again The links to all of that stuff is in the description now We all know the event that just took place the NFL Hall of Fame and There were some notable names that got in there champ Bailey I think Tony Gonzalez Kevin Maway and but I mean that that wasn't really worried about any of those other guys We already knew that once Ed Reed retired. I mean, they should have just put him in a Hall of Fame as While he was still playing but we already knew five years after he retired. He was going in but the great debate Who Because there's been a lot of question and this the answer can go both ways or it can go even three ways It can go four ways depending on who you like, but who is truly the greatest Raven of all time Who is it? Is it Ed Reed? Is it Ray Lewis? Is it Terrell Suggs? And he's still going Is it Jonathan Ogden? Is it Joe Flacco because he actually brought stability to the quarterback position I mean Depending on who you are your answer could vary. So we're gonna get straight into this and see We'll start off with sunny sunny. Who is the greatest Raven of all time in your eyes Okay, so let me start with Flacco's elite greatest ravens of all time You could disregard You're on out with that comment so so so but to be honest, this is the thing I think Ogden was a hell of a left tackle What's it a pioneer of the Ravens, you know starting on the franchise, but Ed Reed and Ray Lewis are regarded as the best in their prestigious of all time So he's starting with those two in my opinion. So this is what for me edges Ray Lewis over at Reed. I think personally Ed Reed was a better player. Yes, I think every was a better player Hell, I mean Bill Belichick said like you it's hard to scheme for Ed Reed, but Ray Lauer was such a great leader. He was such a great leader. He glued his team together Both of them built the footprint, but Ray Lewis was for both of the championship runs And he was the leader on both of the championship runs I think in my opinion that edges where Lewis over at read But if you take the leadership out, I think every was a little bit better as a player But for Baltimore for the franchise, I think at read. I'm sorry. I think Ray Lewis edges at reach No knock on it. How about player love him always got me nervous when he wanted to lateral, but Love the guy. That's what I'm going with Ray Lewis All right, Ray Lewis because of that leadership ability from both Super Bowls. Yes. Okay. All right, so Fred who you got me? All right, so first off I'm gonna start it off this way I can't hate on anybody for your choice in the matter this way. I think any which way you lean towards Well, come on now, that's a little bit of a stretch to say the least Yeah, I guess I can't really hate on anybody for their decision but in my opinion the greatest Raven of all time is at read and There's a lot of things that I could say to back it up So I'll start with a couple of things and to your point SCG. I do think Ray Lewis was the leader of this football team for a very long time his entire career really from the day one That he was a rookie until the day he decided to hang it up But I think Ed Reid and if you watch some of the videos that they've the Ravens put out recently about some of the things There was an interview that Ed Reid did recently about some of the things that he held as teammates accountable for Some of the things that went on beyond the scenes that we maybe not work privy to or didn't see or didn't know That was going on behind the doors. I think if Ray Lewis isn't a Baltimore Raven Ed Reid no question steps up and is the leader of that locker room without question I think he had the ability to do it But he had one of the greatest ever leaders standing in front of him, but From just a statistical standpoint, let me run down a few things with that read to kind of back him up Okay, so first thing this guy you talk about playing with a chip on a shoulder He was a two-star recruit coming out of high school before he was picked up by the University of Maryland for by the University of Miami 24th overall pick in the first round so defeating the odds coming straight out of high school as a to like I said a two-star recruit nine time pro bowler five time all-pro in a 12-year career 2004 NFL defensive player the year 2012 Super Bowl champion 13 career touchdowns none of which We're on offense. That's all defensive and that's all special teams 64 career interceptions led the league three times. He's seventh all-time in interceptions seven picks sixes unheard of The truth think of it this way right so the 2018 Ravens defense Which was number one in the NFL this past year went seven straight games in the middle of the season without an interception Reed in a seven game stretch during 2008 intercepted ten passes himself I mean, that's just like when you think of it just in short realms just in like short things that he did throughout his career It's it's incredible He's the shortest selection debate of a Hall of Famer Literally from the time that Scott Garso stood up to talk about Ed Reed to sit down And they actually had their selection was what two minutes and 20 seconds fastest ever and He's the first pure safety selected as a first ballot Hall of Famer since 1986 like this guy Defied all the odds to go again from a two-star recruit to a first ballot Hall of Famer The stats don't lie. That's true. Hey, all right Joe Yeah It's just weird because I don't pop up on the screen when I talk, but it's all good It's all good. You guys can see my face a little bit. So I Think you guys are completely and totally overlooking One player that nobody's mentioned yet, right? Oh, it's coach Evans But anyways as I was saying you guys are totally overlooking a player that nobody's even mentioned and I think that's Buck Allen We have to consider him as one of the best No, but in all seriousness you guys can see back here I have a Ray Lewis Jersey and that's for good reason because he is my favorite Raven of all time And I think you guys made some good points about Ed Reed, of course I think he's an amazing player, of course one of one of the best safeties if not the best safety we've ever seen play pure safety free safety but I think you got to give it to Ray Lewis here because Not only does he have was it like 13 Pro Bowls? I believe 10 first team and second team all pros He has all the numbers to back it up just like you said with Ed Reed, but he also led one of if not the best defenses of all time in NFL history the 2000 Ravens defense and you cannot deny that he was the leader of that defense the Super Bowl MVP that year the Defensive player of the year. I mean, I just think that speaks volumes in my opinion So Ray is my guy. I go with Ray. What's the topic you guys? We're talking about the greatest Raven player of all time. Okay, it's crazy Like you just I just text you what not and I just came to talking about that same exact thing on the live stream I did you know with you know with some people in chat box and I came up with every Right, I personally think every because of Just his impact on that back in like and somebody in my chat box so ended up as pretty much way I say every was the the brains of all defense and Ray just was the heart And that made it plainer sense to it because you know Ray was I mean it was a guy with with lying people up And you know that that whole secondary and Ray was you know, I don't want to diminish what Ray did But a job was a little more He had more to do if so to speak, you know cover guys. He had to help in the run game Ray wasn't actually cover much, you know And then you know toward maybe the middle toward the end of his career Coverage for Ray in the end of being a problem coverage for every never was a problem even as his body was a Diminishing so, you know going down was staying hurt So I think every and it's hard for me to pick from those two being a huge Miami fan, too So in both of them came from the same school and they play for the Ravens So they they've been I've been fans of theirs for a long time because I'm a hurricane fan. Oh So, yeah, you've been watching them forever. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right, so, um It's tough it's tough because I feel like with this topic I feel like it's no wrong answer and everybody obviously has their reasoning for both um But for me It it just all depends on if we talking about football Or if we just talking about impact now as far as football The the greatest Ravens football player of all time I'm gonna go with ad read every time. There's no question. There's no debate for me I'm gonna go with ad reader every single time just because of ad reads impact on the game And of course Ray Lewis had a big impact on the game too But with ed read It's like when people think for people who know football When they think about Ray Lewis first thing you took they talk about oh man that he was such a great leader Oh, he gave all these great motivational speeches. Oh And then then they talk about he could hit hard too. They talk about that That's kind of a secondary thing when they talk about ed read Automatically you think pick six automatically you think big play And there's a reason for that because of the huge impact that ed read had with those big plays It's like this dude. Um, and I mentioned in a video that I made earlier today that he just And Ray Lewis did it too. Really the Ravens defense did it as a whole But they just made defense that much more fun to watch and it could also be because the offense was so bad for forever And it has been bad for forever, but they made defense so fun to watch and You you always knew It's like for every deep pass that went in the air when 20 was back there You just knew there was a going that we could get an interception every single time and just just thinking about it right now It's bringing back so much memories, man. Because oh man, those are some good days, man When we had 20 lined up in the backfield, right and he And it's not a shot at erguero because they are obviously two completely different players um And erguero, he's doing what he can do But With erguero like before every single defensive snap this year This guy's down in the box lining guys up giving them the plays doing all that good stuff Then he has to backpedal He did that a lot too. Like like coach just mentioned um He he came down in the box and but when he backed up You knew that he actually had a shot to get a pick with erguero It's been like, oh man You kind of get scared when people throw the D ball and 32 back there But with number 20 you get excited and just the way that this dude red quarterbacks Uh, it it's just crazy, man. And and and like I said on twitter. I know um fray had saw it and he replied to it We were spoiled. Yeah, we were spoiled like crazy, man and Not a shot at ray lewis, but when when ray went down Guys like the nail elibi stepped up guys like boss got they got their chance to step up But into that point though, I will say this in ray's defense Those players that you just mentioned and this is one of the things I think that kind of goes unnoticed Some with ray lewis and I'm on the ed reads side of the fence here But with the ray lewis thing is How how much he made players around him better the ed heartwells and and you know Just all those guys because they all ended up signing these huge contracts elsewhere And fell off exactly and That's the thing that that that's the effect that ray had on a team as a whole not just as an individual but on the team So I look you said just think of how spoiled we are as a fan base. We had three First ballot hall of famers in a stretch of five years. Yep That's crazy. It's crazy, man. Like to see that generation of football We're all witnesses to that generation of football. I mean, it's just it's incredible and that speaks to the volumes of What ozzy new some means to this organization and the history in the nfl with ozzy With ozzy new some as a gm Yeah, true. Let me let me throw two cents here. I agree with you guys Was edry like I said the best ravens player. Yes It's just ray lewis for me. So player as a as a performer. I think ed was the better player But The best for the franchise the face of the franchise That will go down in history is the face of the friendship will be ray lewis Oh, yeah I don't think anybody's question is that so ray lewis was the glue in two super balls In both super balls edry was important in the second super ball He wasn't the same player Neither one right neither one was the same player in the 2012 super ball But ray lewis was the glue, right? We all attribute to that. I'm gonna retire This is I told my team this is my last ride and everybody, you know gather around. Let's do it for ray, right? And in the first Super Bowl, he was balling out. Well, I mean he was a Super Bowl MVP So again, edry best safety ever No doubt in my mind, uh might be biased, but no no questions best safety There's no other ball hawk like this guy Ronnie lots the only guy I could think of that's even Mentionable when you're talking Safeties of all time Ronnie lot ed reed kind of 1a 1b for me. Yeah, there's a guy that that didn't get the play his entire Uh NFL career that probably would have been better. Oh shawntown. No doubt. No doubt. Yeah. Well, yeah I love what I saw with taylor Um here I came too right coach. Yes, sir. Yeah, so another great safety But I mean, um, they took it too early from us but every as as the people we have Best free safety ever ray louis arguably the best middle line backer Ever in my opinion too again, I might be biased but I give the edge to ray louis because he was the glue for two Super Bowls both Super Bowls He was the leader the glue the one that gave us That that little edge, you know that extra heart that extra motivation for the guys to play Through the Super Bowls and gave us to Super Bowl. No knock on Henry again We're just basically I'm talking my 0.01 that I'm edging. Um Mr. Reed He Raven said he Ray was is the best but impact is is that the word you used or He must have the best player his his motivational speeches his uh His is the benefit of the franchise, especially after what happened in Atlanta Oh, yeah, all the things that he did for the organization. He he's the greatest raven by far He's just you know, in my opinion, not necessarily the best player we had right. I got you Yeah, like I said, he's he's right behind I guess that's the real question here is what are we talking about? Are we talking the best football player? Are we talking about the best raven of all time because when you're talking the best raven of all time? Yeah, you got to factor in all those other things. You got to factor in the marketability standpoint That that is absolutely ray lewis, but if we're just talking about the football player and his self I just think ed read is the best raven football player to ever lace him up. I think that's very now. Who's the worst? Oh, man, uh, keenan dixon, huh? I'm joking All right, so that's another question, right? So a lot of people are going to jump to the Unmentionable names that we don't like to mention as ravens fans because of certain moments in ravens history, right? So like the cundiff situation obviously that moment the lee evans moment that was a moment So are we talking? Worst player by a moment or are we talking worse worst player by a Body of work because for me if we're talking worst player for body of work It's kyle bowler hands down like there's no question about it the amount of time we wasted on that guy Uh, just just everything about him from day one to the day that he finally left the league Uh, was was jb smooth says it jb smooth got it. What do you say charise, right? That's the first name that came to my mind Let's do both then let's do we're gonna go through each one by one And you'll give your the worst ravens player of all time And then the worst ravens player's moment All right And fray you you gotta start it you might as well go ahead and yeah, all right Yeah, so so right like I said, I think for me the worst player of all time It's gotta be kyle bowler just again because of the The impact that it had on the franchise for so long because and partly of that to blame is obviously brian billick and brian billick trying to Live out his kyle bowler dream and standing behind the decision that he made to draft him So part of that blame falls on billick for riding around with him for so long But just what he did to this franchise for such a long period of time I don't really think there's much of a question there But as far as worst moment, it's got to be the condiff miss for me as much as you know Lee evans is kind of like I said a 1a 1b in that same game there As a kicker you got one job Kick a field goal kick it through the uprights And I mean it doesn't get much closer than the opportunity he had there And it's not like it hit the post. I mean he he shanked that thing about as bad as I would have kicked it if I would have tried so Yeah, you would have been worse, man. You would have been worse I don't think it gets much worse than that man. My my heart is still like kind of picking up off the floor Here we are what seven years later six years later, whatever it was, but uh, yeah, that would be much you guys All right coach you uh, I'm Player he has to be kyle bowler has to be He's it was a waste of money um time space Oh, somebody said mad elem that's pretty bad too. Yeah player player kyle bowler And um moment was lee evans that that hurt me him The ball been knocked out or dropped or whatever happened because he had to borrow plenty of time And you know, I teach receive as soon as you get it put it away, especially around the goal line He didn't put it away. Right. I'm sure he had some kind of stupid celebration plan that he was there was on his mind And and That that moment hurts me just like that the last previous moment you just spoke of right I imagine lee evans must be somewhere in a cave like you have never heard his name mentioned or seen a picture of him since that day They have tried to find him to interview it and they can I feel bad for him in a way. Yeah, that's rough man. That's rough Sunny Oh, so Worst player. I think we're pretty much a consistency here man. Kyle bowler by a mile Hands down. He put he put this he said this franchise back Five years at least it was so bad. It was Wasted years from ray lewis wasted years from ed read that since we talk about the greatest We had this guy that I was like Dude, can we just find a guy from the street? He's dude, right? I was like, yo, and then second Then marillam What the hell man? Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. He was lost all the time He was like Well, I will say as much as I love aussie My marillam was never a free safety and they drafted him to be a free safety So those are my top two worst moments. I have to agree with coach Lee evans when lee evans happened. I saw the cast and I was like, yeah I mean, I was like celebrating and just And then and then, you know, as my heart is ripped out Then come this comes like, oh, it's there. Let me stomp it on it, right? So it was like it was two moments that it's just it's just there, right? Because let me tell you 2012 we might have won it with 2011 We had a better team in my mind a question about it that 2011 I think we would have won that that super bowl I think the football gods just lined it up for us to win it in 2012 But 2011 was the year I think in my opinion that we should have won Oh, john more brings up frank walker god. I forgot all about him. How awful was he? Good lord That guy was terrible. He was really bad. Good call on that one All right, only banks. Wow All right, new bowl Yeah, I mean you guys pretty much covered it, uh, but yeah When you when you first brought it up the first name that came to my mind was charise, right? Because that was my most recent memory. Of course matt elam Now cow bowler was a first round pick, correct? Yeah. So was matt Yes, yeah, so you can't even oh man, I mean I didn't get to see much of cow bowler luckily But you're lucky. Yeah At least they cut bait with elam once they realized how bad he was. That's true But charise, right? I just felt like he was jimmy smith's boy, you know So that that felt like that was the only reason he was on the team Because he would just get burned pretty much every single week I remember that was I think it was that game that he was covering odell beckham jr Where he went off for like almost 300 yards receiving. Oh, yeah taken God man, but that's why we really got to be thankful with the secondary we have nowadays even though, you know, we have We like to criticize the safeties back there, but we got some corners. That's for sure now. Yeah I was also um, I'm totally forgetting. I'm blanking on this. Oh the moment, right? So, yeah, of course the 2011 I mean that's probably the most devastating Moment if you're a ravens fan, of course, and that was my first Really devastating moment as a ravens fan. I remember that very clearly But I think recently you can definitely bring up fourth and 12 that was so devastating. Yeah You know, I I think And the immaculate reception you could put that up there as well But I I don't know. I think the fourth and 12 was just a little bit more devastating I don't know what it was. Yeah, I already forgot about that four and 12. I used the Mani black pan and just erased it. It was like you made up I was at that game. I'm still falling out from that game. That was awful. That was a bad experience to say at least All right, so so for me, um Worst play I could understand why people would go with Kyle bowler Um, and I think uh, what makes Kyle bowler what makes him worse is that it was such an extended period of time um For me though the some of the worst players in ravens history for me Like john moor mentioned frank walker, but also a cori ivy. He was one of them um, but another one that I just I I just couldn't stand it and I blamed this a lot on ed read too because ever since after ed read It was never the same at the safety position It was kindrick lewis. Oh Kendrick lewis was he that was one of my absolute Least favorite ravens. Well, he wasn't a favorite at all. I just I didn't like him at all I felt like kendrick lewis. There was nothing that he did good There was nothing that he wasn't good in run support. He wasn't good in coverage. He was there was nothing that he did good and The he it was just terrible man, and it didn't last too long But what made it even worse for me? Was when we drafted in the third round, I believe out of florida state. We drafted tarence brooks to say Drafted him and then I know the first year he got hurt something like that I think it was his first year he got hurt But then the second year he's in the preseason. He's showing all this promise and whatnot I'm like, okay. Let's get it man. He was making all these hits making plays getting an exception Even though one got called back for a penalty, but tarence brooks was looking like, okay We got some hope here at the safety position after the preseason Ravens ended up cutting him and keeping kendrick lewis and I was like, wow, they really did that And I that that just made it it's like they took a knife to my chest and and they twisted And then they took it out and put it back in again Because I was just like man what like what are they doing because ravens used to always They haven't really done it recently that i've noticed but ravens used to always make These tough decisions with the team with cutting people getting rid of people I haven't really seen them do that too often recently, but they definitely going to have some tough decisions this off season But when they were making that decision like there was a lot of decisions that When ravens will make a lot of us as fans, we would be like, why would they do that? That's so stupid But then every season they will still end up working out But for kendrick lewis, he was somebody when they didn't cut him I was saying wow that's stupid. That's dumb. Why would they do that? And it never worked out to your point there about the decisions, right? So a lot of people in the chat room. I'm seeing Names being brought up and one that I saw a couple time was elvis gerbach and I think a lot of people Don't realize the circumstances around elvis gerbach, you know, he came in here Taking after a team that had just won the super bowl that was built really to go back to the super bowl When they were adding what they thought was a better piece at the quarterback position Then they lose their left tackle and leon sursey and they lose their 2000 yard rusher in jamal lewis And yet elvis gerbach didn't really have that bad of a season when he was here Yeah, he decided to hang it up after that season But if he doesn't lose his left tackle and he doesn't lose jamal lewis, that's a totally different season true Just my opinion Okay. Yeah, good point man And that's uh, that's a very interesting point That you bring up And you know what? We're gonna just transition into another question That is asked a lot that has been argued about a lot over the years Um, and it's going to be an argument that it'll simmer down But it'll never quite go away because we'll never truly know the answer to it, but He talked about elvis, uh with what was around him He plays the quarterback position Kyle baller he played the quarterback position Joe flacco He played the quarterback position When a lot of people debate on Joe flacco whether he's good or bad Whether he's a lead or not whether he Truly had excuses for why he didn't put up numbers like that or not One thing that they talk about is what was put around him So I want to ask you guys Do you think Joe flacco's his inconsistency as a quarterback was more on him? As an individual player Or it was because of the lack of weapons that he had around him as a quarterback Uh new ball. I'ma let you get started on this one Oh, man It's one of those uh topics that Ravens fans love to debate every all the time Um, let me tell you I for the longest time. I was a Joe flacco defender for a long time. I was like People like especially when they first got drafted they want to compare him to matt ryan and all this But look at what matt ryan has had to work with right julio jones one of the best receivers we've seen I mean and just weapons on top of weapons on top of weapons Joe flacco has never had that his best receiver ever has probably been between Anquan bolden, maybe and steve smith. I would say maybe derrick mason to derrick mason. Yeah, and todd heap Todd heap. There you go. So but I mean Like towards the end there it was getting so hard to defend flacco man Like I think the the moment that really made the glass break for me in my mind was the jacksonville game in london Oh, man. That was I was so disappointed. Talk about worst moments. God. Yeah And we walk over into the wash day crap Yeah, that was the worst part too. I was so excited for that the night before and man But and and I believe he only he ended the game with like 28 yards passing You know people like to bring up how bad lamar's first playoff the game was with 40 yards passing in the first three quarters, but flacco had 28 yards passing literally throughout the whole game So I would say It's hard, man. I don't know like I would say at first During when he was a little bit younger and he started to grow and really really was developing I would say it was more that he didn't have the weapons But you know towards the end of his career. I I don't know if I can say the same so I like it. Okay. I'll go next and um with with flacco for me Yeah, I was on the same boat too Defended him like crazy. Um, I used to Back when we were winning like winning winning winning like from 2008 from when he first came on board to the Super Bowl Um, my my shades my glasses. They couldn't get any more purple. Even if I tried but um After we started losing I really really started appreciating football that much more and started appreciated appreciated other team success and um How hard it is to maintain that success, but then I started really like looking at flacco like really really looking at him and really paying attention and While um, I I do understand the argument of when people say, oh, yeah Well, flacco, he was never he never had that great of weapons, which he didn't ravens. They don't invest in offense They really never have invested in offense, especially since he's been on. I mean, they never really had period. Um Like he it is funny because the guys that were drafted Um during flacco's tenor well early in flacco's career So he got time to jail with them and grow with them They ended up being some of the best players during flacco's time and you can argue some of the best ravens ever Um of all time that being tori smith and ray rice Because those two they made countless plays for this team Over the years, but that's because they got to grow it flacco. He knew them. They knew him and flacco has never ever Not even close had the same chemistry that he had with tori smith with any other wide receiver Well, at least with the deep ball. Um, but He did have a lack of weapons and then what they provide him with is usually these 35 to 52 year old wider speakers Now we've just been cut from the other dead teams from under performing. Um, but Where I kind of drew the line at was with flacco's inconsistency um Flacco, he'll have a hot game and have a cold game Then I have a hot game then I have a cold game then a cold game then a hot game then a medium Then a lukewarm game then a hot game then a cold game and it's all over the place but You notice in the playoffs When he's been in the playoffs He's been money it was toward the end of the end of his career and He's been money also For the most part in critical game situations So when everything is on the line backs against the wall most of the time That's when flacco shows up And it won't matter who he has at wide receiver. He'll still show up in these critical moments so I'm putting it on flacco because yes while he did have a lack of receivers and a lack of weapons or whatnot There was a lot of stuff that he could have done a lot better and I just wish that I know he's not going to play it like a playoff game every single game I don't expect that but at least if we know what you can do That's that's what's the fresh the most frustrating part about flacco We know what he can do. We knew what he was capable of But he only showed that to us consistently later later on in his career in the playoffs We didn't get to see that consistency throughout the regular season. So For me it's flacco. So that's that Coach let us know how you feel me. All right. I have a Flacco theory Yes, yes, he was not provided with quality receivers, you know throughout after since the super bowl So I'm going to agree with jeanette But my thing is flacco has flacco has a on we all know flacco can throw the ball nine hundred yards Well, and his defense flacco put too much trust in his own He started trying to fit balls in places. They shouldn't be that's when balls got tipped You know, a lot of flacco interceptors are deflections He's trying to fit fit balls and windows that aren't really there guys knocking them up Underneath coverage picking them off. He just had so much confidence in his arm That he was just going to fit a ball where it shouldn't be and that led to a lot of interceptions led to a lot of Sack farmers were even holding the ball trying to know extend plays But he didn't have a guy that can break you off with a slant and be open He didn't have a guy that could run a clean dig route, you know coming across the middle He didn't have a burner since tourist myth left So, you know, he started trying to fit balls and windows. It shouldn't be there. And so he started making a lot of bad decisions You know, his because his arm strength never went anywhere. He's still got a strong arm He's just his decisions making got terrible after, you know, not having guys to just be open like that Yeah, I love it. I appreciate that man, sonny Okay, so with flacco, I think flacco let me start with he for me as the best QB in Raven's history right, um, he When this franchise was consistently being the fourth, we were worst in the browns and 26 we were Four or six and ten And then 2007 5 11. So we were horrible then flacco comes and we go Again talk about being spoiled. We went 11 and five. So from 5 11 11 and 5 9 and 7 12 and 4 12 and 4 10 and 6 8 and 8 20 6 the year he got injured 3 and he was 3 and 7 8 and 8 and 9 and 7 so That being said flacco for me and this is piggybacking what the coach said He had when he let's say when he was his worst right after the Super Bowl Tori Smith left leaves Anquan bolding leaves Ray Rice gets um booted out of the NFL So all his favorite targets right leave all of a sudden pretty much in a span of two years They all allowed the Ravens and then he had pitta the pitta got keep getting injured. He was back and injured him back The Ravens after 2012 before 2012. He had his core Ray Rice. He can dump it to Ray Rice or he's Smith on the deep um Bolden for curl outs or for the slam going to the middle that he had pitta He had taught he before pitta Mason so he had a good court. Yeah, he found they found the the white receivers in the social security line But still they were still good. Um, so After that 2012 comes he won the Super Bowl first thing they do the chip and quimbolding and then Ray Rice incident comes um so and then um Pitta getting injured Tori Smith He leaves for a bigger contra if we see who flakko has so they decided we need to move on from this And and it is a partial, you know the contra for flakko, right? So because of the big contra they had to move people away After that flakko had nobody tell me who was the deep threat after that He lee evans they brought lee evans as as the potential deep threat when Tori wasn't there to create uh to to Be that boy. Look when steed smith came to the ravens He was the first consistent receiver since ankwon bolden Flakko loved him It's his ankwon and tori flakko loved that he went with to him as much as he could We're talking about a guy that was at the end of his career He shouldn't be your number one guy, but we had nobody else Because the other guy was um pitta and pitta was up and down because of the injuries He wasn't he didn't have very rise So I do think If you see flakko as a line as soon as all those weapons went out His playing the manage the other problem that I have with flakko He had god-giving abilities to be a quarterback, but he never Wanted to be better That's all him. He never wanted to be better If he wanted to be better, he might have elevated those receivers more But flakko wasn't that quarterback flakko wasn't the quarterback to elevate receiver So anybody around him he needed a good cast if you surrounded with a good cast You saw what he can do as soon as he got paid as a top tier quarterback He couldn't elevate the receivers around him and there you go inconsistent and an average quarterback Can I add something real quick before you move on? I want to get my piece in too after you're done. So yeah, it's just a quick quick. Yeah, I think um Do you guys remember the game where his one and two were chris more and griff waylon? Yeah, oh, yeah, let me just let me just throw that out there real quick. All right, so All right, so my take on flakko A couple of things before I get too far into it one I've got nothing but respect for five and you're absolutely right That he is the greatest ravens quarterback in all-time history as far as ravens history goes Part of that is due to we haven't had very many quarterbacks to compare him against and the quarterbacks So we do have to compare best weren't very good straight But here's the thing with flakko and i've said this really since day one about flakko He's a nine to fiver and that was always my biggest criticism with him was his work ethic Like this guy had all the god given ability To be a great quarterback He just didn't have the work ethic in the drive to put in the time and effort that was needed Like a tom brady did or like a joe montana did or like some of the greatest of all times did That was my biggest criticism on him Now we'll say everything that you guys have said about the pieces around him So I kind of look at joe flakko's career Like an incomplete a incomplete puzzle You ever built a puzzle and you get almost to the end and you're missing like three pieces Like somebody forgot to put them back in the box And you don't have those three pieces to complete the puzzle like that was joe flakko's career for me was like They put these pieces around that you could see like damn this team is so close This team could be so good because they've got pieces but they just didn't have enough around him And it was like they would supplement pieces as they left With like you said some of these senior citizen players that would come around that were just kind of rotational players and Yeah, they they they made it work and they had these 10 and 6 seasons and some of these 12 and 4 seasons but I think if flakko puts in the time and effort On the back end and isn't just a nine to fiver I think he's a multiple super bowl winner True, I agree. Love it. Love it. All right real quick gonna put everybody on the spot shout out to morise, man um, most underappreciated raven Sonny, what you got? Damn It's a tough one Most underappreciated raven. You know what I'm gonna go with jonathan octon Um, because we don't talk about jonathan octon enough and I think it was because we were Ray lewis from they were drafted in the same Um time, you know why we forget about the cow bowler draft a little bit because it was the same year we drafted Charles Suggs, right? So I feel like jonathan octon gets a little you know gets a little bit forgotten But he was pioneer, right? Everybody says you should build this. Um your team. You need a good left tackle Good roger a good corner obviously the good quarterback He anchored that left tackle and he helped guys like dilford which You know no knock on dilford, but he was an average quarterback Helping to be decent enough to win a quarter or um Superbowl and he helped elite running backs like jamal louis Right for his homes to ball out. I feel like sometimes we forget about octon I know he's a hall of famer But you never hear people talking about octon like we hear every Torrell sucks or um ray louis You know, I think he gets forgotten a little bit. That's I mean that's that's my take Okay, that's a good one all right joe We got most unappreciated raven. I know this is tough on me It is it is for sure, especially since I didn't you know I haven't been watching it as long as you guys have so you guys have more more point of reference than I do but um I I actually I don't want to say of all time. I want to say right now if that's okay Right now player that I feel is really underappreciated. I know he is Who is it? I know you're gonna say my answer. Go ahead. Oh, okay brandon karp Ah I was waiting for You should have gone first in raven. You should have gone first Man, you called my name. So I'm jumping on it, you know, it's all about taking uh opportunities But anyways, yeah, so branded car man for me. He's so underappreciated. He gets a lot of hate that I don't feel is Like he doesn't deserve it man He when he came here when he was signed to baltimore, they were calling him used car, you know that And but this guy day in and day out since we've signed him He's been there on the field every single snap. Well, not every single snap But every single game he hasn't missed a game for us and he's played solid Sure, there's been times that he's gotten burned because by you know, like antonio brown, of course And and he's gonna get burned by those speedy receivers But when he's up against those big physical receivers, you you really don't hear Pretty much anything from that side of the field when he's on them So I think he's really underappreciated and he's a big reason why her secondary is so good nowadays Let me throw something in there car is one of the reasons we could potentially get rid of jimmy smith. Oh, yeah Yeah, we didn't have a car We're not talking about cutting jimmy smith or trading jimmy smith at all to go ahead. Yeah. No, that was Yeah, let me get this. Let me get minds in Oh, man, I think um, yeah, somebody brought up somebody else in the comment section. Um, Anthony Levine Levine, um, I feel like he Yeah, I mean the same thing we've been saying about everybody else will accept brandon car Some people don't get talked about enough with brandon car. He got talked about too much With anthony levine The guy like they say the swiss army knife Whatever oh, and it's been over the years. I didn't even realize he was in his 30s But over the years they asked him to come in. Hey, we need you to play corner play slot corner Okay, cool. Hey, we need you to play outside corner. Go play it. Okay, cool. Hey, we need you to play safety Go play it. Okay. Cool. Hey, we need you to play linebacker. Go play it. Cool. And this this dude is everywhere And The thing about anthony levine that that makes him such a special player Um, is that he he's willing to do whatever But he's a playmaker too. Yeah, he's a playmaker He seldomly sees the field but when he does see the field he is right He's where the ball is man. So minds would be anthony levine All right. It's a good one All right, so I coach. Okay Good Cool. Mia you ready for me Uh goose tonus era goose. Nice That's cool I got a tonus era goose because if it's if it was not for goose there's no Uh mvp ray lewis Goose goos eating up blockers and rays able to run free and do the things they do Not for goose and his big body eating up blockers There is no ray lewis and that great uh was 2000 and 2001 season whatever Then we wanted to go 2000. Yep, and and nada did the same thing for ray over the years. Yep, right Oh, yeah, not over nice, man All right So I engrave and completely agree with you as far as if we're talking about in the now right now I think anthony levine is one of the most under talked about underrated players Just like you said from a standpoint of him being a utility knife to be able to do kind of a little bit of everything Can fill in wherever you need him type thing But if we're talking about all time and uh kind of to coach's point here What's the ultimate goal in football? The super bowl way right super bowl The 2012 super bowl championship does not happen without chicoby jones I think It's the most underrated player In and if in on this complete history of our team I mean you think about what he did in denver We don't go to the super bowl without him. You think of what he did in the super bowl We don't win the super bowl without an MVP Right. Yep. So that's that's my take on that. I think he's the hands down most under appreciated raving of all time He's loved though. He's loving the balls the more. Oh, yeah I was gonna ask you guys that question once we got toward the end about uh Who you guys really thought should have been the nvp of 2012 and I felt like jacoby Yeah debate right there It's a good one. I think I still I still think it's flakko because um Flakko ended up getting three touchdowns and of course he had to lead the uh the offense throughout I know jacoby made them huge plays a huge catch and then it just for jacoby's awareness for him to get up and make the Cornerback miss and still Zone and then of course that kick return Um, but I I still go with flakko I would have said jacoby and I would have been mad if they give it to jimmy smith Uh, actually, you know what they they came out and said, uh purple focus came out jimmy smith jimmy smith has the Second best grade and a super bowl since those six jimmy jimmy smith I will say we I don't know why we like to hate hate on corners here We like to hate on corners and we like to hate on Lying or delignment going to coach points with goose, which is a great pick coach This is why brandon car we we trash him so much Brandon car has been great the past couple of years. You know why mostly has been producing is because brandon car peers are there Shedding up black blocks and letting mostly run free um And I there's a big story or not a big story But uh like a story that when ray louis when nada was gonna get drafted He went to aussie instead like I need that boy because I I haven't been able to do my job All linemen are getting to me. I need that guy. So I think the linemen aren't in general are very underappreciated in baltimore And we are a factory of producing the linemen and the corners jimmy smith gets towards um Brandon car gets towards humphrey hasen he's been elite so far, but His time will come because we torch them all um carrey williams He had you know, he wasn't great all the time, but you know and and so on um I don't know why but d linemen's and corners are not as appreciated in baltimore in my opinion So I think part of that is to your point that d linemen we produce them like factories here in baltimore that You know, it's like if one leaves. Oh, well, we'll find another one diamond in the rough We'll be in the fifth or sixth round. We'll get them somewhere I'll make you the gold all right, yeah so um just to wrap it up if You I mean speaking of super bowl mvps and speaking of quarterbacks for the raven still on the joe flacco If you could have one destination Where you thought flacco would be going next year Where would it be? I'll start and I think that flacco could be well on his way down here um the weather is great Uh, and he would be getting a new head coach He would be getting a team that's apparently they're going to be moving on from ryan tannahill, which is also no surprise and um dolphins they would be He would be able to give them a decent quarterback for the next one two years or have a long they plan on keeping him for So i'ma say miami sunny who you got So I think a team that might be a little bit more desperate for a quarterback Is jacksonville the problem is between jacksonville miami and dember Which I think is just three likely destinations None of them have well dember is the best destination for him They have the best receiving court miami their receivers are not that far from baltimore jackson bill used to have better receivers, but they have let them go so I think he ends up going to jackson bill in my opinion because they know the window is closing that Is just pretty good still They need a quarterback and Maybe at least one more receiver His dream scenario probably will be trade me to the giants and I have weapons there But I mean the giants still have this love story with elie manning Um, so I would say jackson bill and hopefully we can get at least a third or fourth I'm dreaming. I'm dreaming but yeah Hi fray. What do you think flacco is gonna go with? So scg you kind of took a couple of my points there too. So I think ultimately He either ends up in miami or I think he ends up in washington The other thing that we have to consider here is he's only got one year left on his contract So wherever he goes, he's only playing for one year and then signing another deal Whether it's with the same team or going elsewhere after that so washington's kind of in one of those positions right now obviously with alex smith Questionable whether he's gonna even return and have an nfl career from here on out He's definitely not at least not playing next year Dan dan snider When it comes to money, he will pay and he will figure out a way to make it work Flacco if they're if the ravens are really Doing what they say they're gonna do as far as putting him in a situation that he wants to be in Us knowing flacco and how he is that he is a nine to fiver that he's a family guy first and foremost Before football. I think washington's appealing to him because he'd be close to home that kind of thing I do think miami would be the better fit for him if he wants to win and he wants to win this season Ultimately though my dream Situation for him is exactly what sgg said. I think going to new york pairing him with Saquon barkley giving him a target like odell beckham giving him a young tartan like evan ingram if they can go out and draft Let's just say dwayne haskins in the first round the second the third round They pick up some offensive line help there Have dwayne sit behind flacco because they're very similar as far as traits go They both have very strong arms. They're good pocket quarterbacks haskins a little bit more mobile obviously than flacco But I think sitting behind him would be good Uh for a year. I think that would be the dream situation for flacco But ultimately I think he ends up either in washington or miami All right, joe. What do you think he's going? Well, I would say the dream situation not only for Well for ravens fans I think is washington because their front office is so bad that maybe we can squeeze like a second round pick out of them or something But I think he would fit best in denver I've been pounding my desk All season long pretty much since lemar jackson started saying that I believe if joe flacco goes to denver They are a playoff team. I think the only thing holding them back this past year was case kinam and Of course vance joseph their coach, but he's gone now. So Um, I think if joe flacco goes there, he's going to have a running game with philip lindsay They have some nice running backs there. They have some good young receivers Corlyn Sutton tim patrick just to name a couple um, if they can fix that What was that sorry for my raven by the way tim patrick. Oh, yeah Oh, I totally forgot about that. Um, but again, are you surprised that a receiver finds success somewhere else? But Yeah, I would personally like to see him in denver. I think they have a good defense still they have good young defensive pieces They have some guys that are leaders on the defense So I think denver would be best case scenario for him. I mean he may not like You know going living up in the mountains, but I don't know Hi coach I think his best case scenario would be uh, new york for the year Yeah, but I don't think that's going to happen. I think he's going to end up either in, um Jacksonville, which is close to me Or down there by you, um engraving it in miami he they they have very They need quarterbacks as well to speak they need quarterbacks bad They they got to find a way to To get something out of especially in Jacksonville that that defense is going to start to dismantle They got to have somebody to push the ball down the field. They had all their success a couple years ago with just the defense Yeah, and they got they got to find a way to push the ball down a field. They got some young guys that you know, um That they need to maximize before contract time come up And so uh That could be a one a one year rental for them and I can see that working maybe not working good enough to You know do anything in the playoffs, but at least they won't be as bad as they were This year, but you know, if i'm flacco, I would love to be in New york with odell starting to ship with evanine from uh, seikwon Now he'll what he'll be doing is going to a worse Old line, right? You need help there for sure him but him not being mobile and being older that you know, it may not be ideal for him Yeah, because you know, uh, illa ran for his life the entire year That's true Let me let me that's my two cents. Let me say something about what fred said about the reskins Uh, I agree with newville. The reskins might give us a first for all I care. I mean, they're they're stupid like that But right a problem the problem that you have with the reskins is the reskins are committing this year 20 mil And alexmith if they bring flackler committing 40 Million in a quarterback position. They only had 20 million in the cap I don't because I hear people talking about flackle to the redskins I don't see how you can make it work Because they only have 20 mil unless flack was willing to say I'll play for you for 10 Which I that's never been flackled, right? No, I don't see it That's why I think when newville said it's either broncos in my opinion It's either broncos or jackson bill new york is his dream scenario But jackson bill with jackson bill He has a potential playoff thing and with the damper broncos He also has a potential playoff thing jackson bill the division's a little bit softer. I think that's probably his best route No, I think that's a tough division right there in jackson bill. You got the colts made playoffs to tight But next to the broncos you have the chargers and you had kc Yeah A lose losing and if he goes to miami, he has tom brady in the division So yeah, but that that is the softer division though That is but because the patriots. I don't even I think they sold their soul to the devil or something How these people keep winning All right, man. Anyway team keep it clean I came through Shout out to all the other ravens youtube personalities that came through i'ma go ahead and let them Reintroduced themselves to you all and go ahead and shout out whatever you want to shout out instagram twitter youtube Your links because all your links to your youtube channels are in the descriptions But go ahead and uh put yourself on go ahead start us off coach Uh, make sure you follow me on twitter at coach evins nine Instagram is uh silk to tally the number two um Doing a lot of draft videos out there with guys that we could potentially draft in baltimore and some guys I just like watching film on so make sure you go uh check those out Subscribe to the channel. I'm building every day doing something different trying to give you guys a better experience When you come to my channel and so um, you know any feedback It's much appreciated and most of the comments I get back with you. So I appreciate the talking ball with everybody Hey, there it is man. All right, sonny Yeah, so um My you can find me scg sports on twitter facebook ig and youtube Um, I do ravens videos. I'm gonna start soon doing oriol's videos Um and washington wizards if you like basketball And I'm I'm like coach evins. I'm putting But you know my draft opinion who should we draft? Um Who's our top five? Who should we target? But I shout out to coach coach does a hell of a job Breaking film So if you Want to learn about football Other than watching prospect if you just want to learn about football Shout out to coach coach. You do a great job. Go check his channel appreciate it Hey, that's what's up, man. All right fred All right, so i'm fred with birdlandbs everything you can follow us on youtube twitter Uh facebook everything is birdlandbs if you want to follow me personally on twitter. It's at fred blbs We're a local baltimore sports podcast We cover everything from the ravens to the oriols to the maryland turps We'll even talk some caps and brigade and that kind of thing depending upon the time of season We do a live show every tuesday night at 8 45 We try to interact as much as we can with the show. There's some changes We just partnered with the big play family so excited about that There's some new things coming with the show So be sure to subscribe to the channel appreciates you guys tune it in and thanks for having me on Hey, appreciate it. All right new boat Yeah, guys. I am joe newbo, uh youtube twitter instagram Well twitter is at nf podcast, but it's all good. You can just subscribe to me on youtube I would appreciate that the most But make sure you guys subscribe to every single one of the people that were in this uh live stream today Everybody makes amazing videos guys in raven. I can't he just makes so many videos every day and I can't even imagine Like just having that strength man because to me just making one video like every other day is enough but But yeah, man. I'll love for ring raven for setting this up uh fred from birdland bs amazing show you guys definitely got to check it out It's such a good quality show man. It's amazing what he can do Um, especially with his buddy scott's an awesome show coach evans does great film breakdown Awesome channel same thing with sunny from scg sports. He has some good quality videos man I'm always interested in his opinion. He has some interesting opinions. So yeah guys make sure you subscribe to everyone here Appreciate all y'all coming through One thing for you go up your mind Huh, I want I want to shout out joe that thing he did the rate the rate Oh, thank you. That was awesome, man. That was that was some great work. I appreciate that man. That was awesome Thank you Really? Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. I didn't know that Oh, yeah, man. That's awesome. The quality of that video was really really good man. Keep doing your thing joe I appreciate that man Yeah, man. So all right y'all appreciate it. Thank y'all Um, this was fun and thank y'all for coming through last minute too, man Because you know, we we set this up when we set it up like 30 45 minutes. That's how we roll Yeah, that's what's up man. So appreciate all everybody in the chat section in the comment section Make sure you subscribe to each and every youtube channel. That's there in the description appreciate y'all