 We've been playing some a lot of new tabletop games recently, but we haven't played any of them enough to really give a full-on episode So we're just gonna briefly talk about three. We've played recently. Alright, so the third game. We were talking about is Viva Java So we didn't even really play more than one turn of this game We played in zero games of this zero turns of it properly So this is just an impression based on a brief teaching and then an attempt to play two rounds Yes, we screwed up a bunch of rules Big time so my Viva Java's a guy like you bid on beans and you form correlate I don't want to talk about the mechanics really because we'll talk about it again. It's been a game that had a lot of hype I've heard a lot about it. My impression of this game is that It's too fiddly and my rationale is thus the way the game is written At least the way the rules were described the way you play them There's a lot of things that kind of could happen simultaneously and people seem to just play this game doing them Simultaneously, but it was me and Scott and Dr. Hazard and a bunch of other people in the front row crew are all pretty on these things So immediately Anytime something could be simultaneous. The question was asked by someone wait Wait, what order does this happen in because I'm changing my action based on what other people do exactly So this would be fine except that there's so many little things that happen They and there's a giant in the game takes nine players granted Well, it can take up to take up to eight players. I think it's sort of weird It says recommended with five six seven or eight right because when you look the the cool part about the game is this Coalition forming aspect where you play every turn you play your guys somewhere in the world and wherever you play him in The world determines three things it determines actually determines four things Number one which bonus you're gonna get each place has a different bonus or penalty Number two you get a free bean wherever you go determines what beans beans beans beans Determines what bean you're gonna get number three if you roast it determines what kind what variety you're going to roast on that turn Which matters and number four anyone who goes in the same continent as you is going to be in the same coalition as you There are three co there are three teams basically that are formed each turn So you want to be on a team with the right people right because then each turn each team Votes whether or not to do a or B and then they play their turn I see every turn every team you're on a different team of three people that team is either going to brew or it is going to Research if it research is you basically all just increase your powers right in a really nonintuitive way We had to clarify the rules on like ten times Yes, if it Reese if you brew you basically all create a victory point coffee machine And you will all get those points everyone on that team will get those points the coffee machines are poker hands of beans But you draw randomly so you have to play the odds, but it's an individual game So you have to think okay if I'm gonna brew do I want to brew with those people right? It's like you know those people are you know below me. They're not gonna catch up So yes, I do want to brew with them because we'll all get the same number of points from that brew Thus, I'll be hurting these people who are not on my team, but let's say I'm losing someone's ahead of me Do I want to brew with them? No I'd be helping them and I wouldn't really be catching up to them because you'd all be getting those points But maybe then I could join their team and poison their brew Making it so they don't get as many victory points, but that will only help someone else catch up to them So what I really want to do is brew with someone else and have someone else poison their brew for me and You see where this goes. So there's a lot of cool mechanics in this game, but at least on an initial play And if the game is recommended seven and eight players with eight players and turn order matters so much This will take forever this game You're gonna have to cycle through eight players. I'm gonna do this Well, I'm gonna do this in a loop like ten times per turn Yeah, this game will take forever. So unless we read the rules way wrong They're worse like the voting is supposed to be simultaneous But then the action taking is like, you know, well who you know this team, okay? So we all vote simultaneously Everyone in the whole table votes research. Let's just say right so who researches first in the turn order We research first so we do the turn order research that isn't clockwise. You're jumping around the table Checking the turn order, which is based on these colored chips the turn order changes every round based on victory points That was something that was a huge problem was the victory point thing right is early in the game at least It's victory points determine turn order You have to move the victory point tokens in the precise order because when there's a tie Let's say two people are tied for three whoever arrived at the three later goes first or Second right it matters. So you have to move the victory point tokens in the proper sequence You can't just sort of be like, okay, how many points did everyone get I got two I got three I got four right you have to actually say, okay You move yours first because you just scored the point. So my worry is now you A large amount of sort of it's not really mechanical busy work It's just that the procedure is not busy work because you're not calculating. It's just procedural Time you it ends up having the same effect as busy work because You have to go through this procedure in such precise order that you can't ever just kind of do something And as a result you have to be constantly on the ball and aware of all right who just did this action now Let's do the next action. You need like a person to run the clock tick of the game I think that if this was a computerized game It would actually be vastly superior because number one you would never fuck up something like the victory point tying anything Right, so you wouldn't know that no one had to think about that and number two all the things like drawing things randomly out of The bag and peeking knowing but be you know all that kind of stuff wouldn't be an issue right? It would all just sort of happen, you know, so it'd be like do you want to draw being out of the bag? Yes, boop, there's been right, you know, do you know, it would be it would solve a whole lot of problems Mostly with you know, organizing the physical pieces and all that kind of stuff so and then if you could play it on the computer like that the Coalition-making aspect, which is the interesting unique mechanic of this game would emerge and Most of your thought would be going towards that every turn and it could be really fun Oh, there are a lot of rules clarification questions on the geek many of which are not answered. Oh But I did it. Yeah, there's a lot and one guy says it's primarily a social game That's why he likes it it is very social with the bean sharing and the teaming up except no It's not because look at who was playing that is a purely mathematical game It's so I could see how it's social if the P if not everyone is super serious Right because you're brewing together. You can't you know, this is a game where you cannot score victory points alone It is impossible You must join a team every turn of people and do something it's a game where I worry that playing to win We'll make the game Interminable and unbearable possibly now we have to play it again to be sure so we are going to play it again I do I do want to play it again Unlike core worlds only for like I said that team-making mechanic Yep, just because I want to see that go in another worry is just that that's those that coalition for me is gonna be so Procedural that it's just gonna drain all the energy, but I can see how a similar mechanic might make other games awesome Oh, yes, I agree on that point