 Right. Oh, did you press record? I see it. I did. But does that, it will go back to your, your, your link. Right. So I'll get an email later that says that it, the recording is available. So it'll still go back. And I see that the close, the live transcripts is on. So I'm going to go ahead, guys, have a great meeting. Lots of stuff done and have a great weekend. Thank you. You too. Okay. I just wanted to wait for Allegra. But I guess we can go ahead. If y'all are ready, we can call it to order. And then Allegra can join us. And it's miss Pat joining us too. Miss. In the audience right now. Oh, that's a. So, oh gosh, do I know how to elevate someone to a panelist? Let me see. We should not have let her go yet. That's great. Oh my goodness. Let me see if I can contact Jennifer. Yeah. Yeah, she's in the attendees right now. Yeah. Let's see. I'm going to forward her the. I'm forwarding her the, the, the panelists link. I think I got that. Oh yeah. I just sent it to her. I don't know if she's listening. Okay. I sent you the panelists zoom link. Do we have the same issue with Allegra? I'm here. I was wrangling small people. Sorry. I figured that, but then, you know, the whole thing with the audience and the panelists. So we can go ahead and begin as miss Pat. Okay. I'm not sure if she's coming on or. She got out of the attendees. So I'm assuming she's, she's. All right. So we are. Recording. Hello, Allegra. Hello. Let's go ahead and begin. You want me to start. Yes, please. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone is called to order it is 605. And welcome. Not only CSSJC, but of course the human rights commission. Thank you for joining us. As a co-meeting for what, you know, for the action and discussion items that will take place at item four. Thank you. Thank you. We do have very many members of HRA could join us, but we do have her roads. Who's also a school committee member. Is there any other group? Could you identify yourselves if you're on another committee? Just so we can recognize everyone. So, all right. HRA, HRC, and of course, oh, former CSWG members. Are they do? Can we see if they're in the audience? We can see somebody named Brianna, but I'm not sure if it's Brianna. Okay. Brianna has her hand raised. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, Brianna. Probably. See it from CSWG. I would think. All right. So I hope we'll be able to bring people on. I think we'll be able to, to speak as, as we go along. That's something that we didn't check with Jennifer to figure out, but. You want me to send the link to Brianna too? Yes. Okay. All right. So I'm going to go ahead and proceed while we figure that out. Any announcements from our group. Any announcements or anything from our particular CSS JC group. Since we last met. No announcements. Okay. All right. Are we going to do the approval of minutes? You think Allegra or we should just wait until next time. Because I. Let's table it till next time. I just want to make sure by consensus how we usually do things in it. It sounds like and looks like people are with that. So we're going to take the minutes until next time. And we're going to go ahead. To public comment. Of course, we will have a second public comment at the end of this meeting. But we have public comment. Okay. So I'm going to go ahead and move on to the next one. Now. Let's see. I need to make you co-host Allegra. Okay. And I think you'll be able to like within the participants area. Bring people in as well. Let's see. Do we have any ones. Hand up. To speak. Lauren Mills. I pressed the allowed to talk button. Okay. Can you hear us, Lauren? It's very, very low. My mouth is as close to better. That's better. Thank you. Yes. I was. It was suggested by Ms. Pat. I hope I say her last name, right? To make a public comment about. Some questions I had about. Press and its involvement in the, the public schools, the middle school. And wanted to know how press could explain the work that they're doing in the middle school. I had a question about a picture that was in the superintendent's office two weeks ago. That was a picture of students of color. And it had their names. Connected to the description of the picture. And also cited press. Responders names that were working with them. I thought it was a little concerning because it did. State the, the children's names. And. I guess your last meeting on the press director. Mentioned that they go to basketball games to get the note, to get to know the community. And I just want to know. What is the, the, I guess the line between. Surveiling the community and, and getting to know the community. And those are my thoughts. Thank you. Thank you. Any other. Folks would like to speak for public comment. We will have a second public comment period at the end of our discussion. As well. All right. So. Let us go ahead and. Move into our member reports. Yeah, I want to, I want to share. What this past week to a brief circle that the town. Hosted. At the bank center. This path was there and Vera and a bunch of other. Community members. Some council members and so on and so forth. Good to kind of attend that and it was really just an opportunity to talk through the feelings and what we've been kind of dealing with since Tyree Nichols' murder and, you know, yet again being at the same place. And I know we're going to have more compensation, but this was something that the town put on. So I was glad that that happened. It's a beginning point, but hopefully for me, you know, it's more so about action, though, because as a mom, as a black woman, mom of two black boys, if we don't get to the root of the issue, which is really the institutional systemic racism and problems that are within the police and elsewhere, not just the police department, then these senseless murders are going to continue. So that was one. And then there was something else, too, that actually, I think you had shared this. It was on Facebook about a report around the Holyoke police, an article that was shared there. And that was very, what is it, eye-opening, even though, of course, not surprising in terms of how they just dismiss resident complaints and, you know, don't discipline the police officers. I know there was a link there on Amherst police, but I was even able to get into that because I was just kind of reading through the article, but yet again reminded me again, right? And I said that at the grief circle of why we need the oversight resident board like yesterday, and, you know, and that needs to be in place, you know, right away, because if not, there's not going to be any trust in the community in terms of if something happens and any type of violation that they're going to feel that their voice is going to be heard. So thank you, Dave, for sharing that. Absolutely. Thank you. And we'll talk a bit more on update about posts and I can share that information further with folks. Miss Pat. So I just want to quickly echo what Deborah has shared. I also attended the grief cycle and for me, just to listen to people, like, you know, talk about the experiences in our town and people have, like, trust within each other. The conversation was intense, but it was at the same time healing, you know, just to hear from different people what they've been through in this town. So I just want to thank our town for putting that on. I think it's needed for people to have a place to just, you know, talk things through. But we need action. Talk is cheap. Absolutely, Miss Pat. Thank you. Allegra. I did not attend the grief circle, but I just wanted to acknowledge the CSWG, because I think that the work that they did really laid the groundwork for the town to even consider posting something like that. And I just think back to three years ago, when after George Floyd was murdered, there wasn't anything like that as a kind of town-wide response. So I, you know, yes, unfortunately, we are still in the place where these killings are happening. And I hope that with more action from this committee and from the community, we can move forward. But I do want to acknowledge that without the CSWG, I don't think that the grief circle would have even been something that the town would have put forward on its own. So thank you for all the work that you all did to lay the groundwork. Just real quickly, you know, that was actually my last kind of parting words in the grief circle was just to say that, you know, in terms of a blueprint and how to move forward in terms of action items is to put in place the recommendations, because there's so many other recommendations that CSWG made. And we've only, you know, just begun, right, with the DEA department and Cress JC, our own group, right? Which, like you said, if we hadn't put those things in place, the grief circle wouldn't have even occurred. But there's so many other recommendations that are still, you know, collecting dust and that we need to put in place, you know, the oversight resident board being another one. Thank you. Anyone else, including our members of the HRC or the AHRA or former CSWG members, we're going to begin discussing, you know, on item four action items. But if there are things within the realm of member reports, please share. All right. Thank you. All right. So let's go ahead and move to our main topic of discussion for tonight. Item four action and discussion items. And just to remind everyone what's on the agenda, we're going to have a kind of a group dialogue with the HRC, former CSWG members and, of course, the CSSJC. And if you're representing AHRA on the culture of policing, both locally and nationally. And I think it's best to kind of make this kind of a broad discussion. And it looks like, Phillip, you want to start us off? I just wanted to put out there that maybe a go around of who's on the call and where they're representing just a quick introduction before we start. Just in case everybody's not familiar with who's in the room. Absolutely. Thank you so much for suggesting that point of order. You want to start with yourself? Sure. I am doing double duty. So I am a part of the CSSJC, which is this group. And I am also the co-chair of the Amherst Human Rights Commission. Thank you, Phillip. And I'll go next since I don't know if it's on the screen the same. But for me, I'm next after Phillip. So I'm Demetrius Shabazz, and I am the co-chair with on the CSSJC. I'll just go next. So Deborah Ferreira, so double duty, representing Community Safety Working Group, CSWG, as well as CSSJC. This is Irv Rhodes, a member of AHRA. And I'm here because we were invited to attend. A lot of members couldn't attend tonight. So I'm happy to be here as a part of that group. Thank you, Irv. Next. I'm Brianna. I'm the former co-chair of the CSSJC. I'm excited to connect with you all tonight. Thank you for joining us. I'm Freke, and I'm with the CSSJC. Thank you. So I'm Ronnie Parker. I'm part of the Human Rights Commission, new to that, and fairly new to Amherst also. Thank you for joining us, Ronnie. Should I go? OK, I'm Ronnie Parker, CSJC member and also for my member of CSWG. Is that me? Am I the last? No, you're not the last, but go ahead, please. Allegra Clark, I am the co-chair of the CSSJC. OK. Victor, are you there? Oh, can you hear me? Hi, I'm Victor, and I'm a part of the Human Rights Commission. All right, you have to do you have to do that all over again. This is Amilkar Shabazz here, listening in and for the as a member of the African Heritage Reparations Assembly. Thank you. Amilkar, you're looking good, Amilkar. Please. OK, thank you, Phillip, for suggesting that. I think that that helps, particularly also for folks who are joining us. So just to reframe where to where to have this discussion with the particular committees in the community and CSSJC, we called for that because we felt it would be great to get folks impressions and input and kind of collective knowledge regarding local public safety in light of yet another horrible incident where a young person's life has been taken. And so I guess we can just start it off. I can start myself, I suppose. Some of the things that I have been really thinking about in relation to local public safety and how this impingence upon Memphis and national public safety is so much of what the CSWG laid in terms of groundwork and Allegra and I, of course, crafted the statement that went to the ND. So much of what the CSWG tried to think about. In vision as possibilities and how to intervene and then did their research in terms of what are other communities doing in case the worst thing should happen in our community, right? So they looked at other models in terms of public safety and policing regarding traffic stops. They looked at the data having to do with more black and brown people who were stopped. That becomes an incident not only in terms of these low level of rest that occur again with numbers from the black and brown community being more so than other communities. Also, what happens during these traffic stops in certain places as we saw in Memphis and we've seen elsewhere is that it could escalate to where someone is killed. Usually, again, a black or brown person. And so it becomes this opportunity, so to speak. Intentional or not. It becomes this opportunity where something could go sideways and people are harmed. So CSWG looked at this data. They made recommendations. And these are things that seem to have not been considered. When we are trying to reform and restructure things in our community. And I don't think that there is a concerted effort to do so. Certainly Crest is a start. Certainly, DEI is a start. We are promised the resident oversight board. It needs to move quickly. And the reason being, as Allegra and I pointed out in our statement, we have just been lucky. And I've looked at the state data. We actually are pretty high, not Amherst again. I'm talking about statewide in terms of black and brown arrest. Traffic stops where black and brown folks have been stopped. And nothing has come of it in terms of search. But it becomes this opportunity for things to go sideways. They go to jail. Sometimes it ends in bodily harm or death. So we have just been lucky. And I guess I want to look back on those recommendations CSWG has made. Consider them and really push and challenge our community to take all of those recommendations up before something. Horrible does occur. Anyone can go just raise your hand. I guess I'll go. So like formulating thoughts and everything. But it's again, a lot of what we had already put in the CSWG report, which, like I said, Amherst just needs to be brave to take on these recommendations and to put these recommendations in place. You know, the national debate, as as what Dija said, you know, just brings it local in terms of like, we can't wait for a tragedy to happen. Right. We have to take these steps now. We have to be brave. We have to we have to not be resisting in terms of what needs to happen, which is really deal with the route, right, that, you know, the police department needs to be anti-racist and needs to adopt, you know, an anti-racist stance and come out in the in the forefront in regards to it. You know, I mean, you know, when everything happened with the Amherst nine, you know, you know, thank goodness, you know, Paul Bachman, you know, finally apologizing everything. But till this day, the police chief never apologized, you know, and that's still something that that that was clear that that is is out there, right. So so until some of these things change, which is again, the route, right. And a lot of people bring up the fact that these police officers were black police officers and to say that that's, you know, that makes it even more. Yeah, it does, right, because it was a black. But at the root, it really showcases the problem even more, right. It showcases that it's not about the person that once you're in that institution and that's the police, that that's the belief, right, which is to to see others, especially people of color, marginalized people as property, because that's how the police, the route was to to to get people back into slavery. And so once that's the route and that doesn't change, then that's what was what's going to continue. And so we need to deal with that, right. And so being a black police officer, it's still the same philosophy, right, because it's blue police officers, not black police officers, blue police officer. Right, it's part of that institution. So if this wasn't even more so of a wake up call that that needs to be dealt with, then I don't know what is, you know, there needs to be a dismantling. There's needs to be a really a look, you know, integral route, which is what we had to do, right, to really kind of go in and look at the root of of our institutions. And that's what CSWG did. And of course, that's a live job. It's something that we're going to have to continue to do to always continue to look and continue to evolve and continue to change. But until that gets done, I'm sorry, when people keep on saying, well, you know, when is this going to end? It's not going to end, right. And for me as a black mom, I just keep holding my breath because I have a 19 year old black young man who's in New York City. And I hold my breath every day, right, that I'm not going to get a call, a phone call in the middle of the night about my son, right? Because that's the kind of fear that we live with every day as a black mother. Oh, my 13 year old boy. Because it doesn't matter the age, you know, 1913. But that's the reality that we live with every day. And I understand that others don't live with that reality. But hopefully you'd put yourself in my shoes so that then amherst so that then you can, you know, stop being resistant and start really dealing with some of these issues. At face value. Miss Pat. OK, I will go. So as a black mom. As a black aunt, grandmother. The incident at Memphis did not surprise me. It happens every single day. In this country, and Amherst is not immune to this. It can happen in our community as well. Let me just break this down very easily. Not only that the Amherst Police Department. Is is needs to be anti-racist. The entire town of Amherst needs to be anti-racist. I just want to spell it out the way it is. It's sometimes it's a lot about power. Who is making decisions in this town? Where are the resources going? Even with the creation of press program, we're still hiring more police officers for what? I do not see police officers. As you know, that they protect me and my family. I don't see them that way. And I'm not saying that, you know. You know what they do is not important. But as a black woman, police will be the last place to call. And I pray that I never have the need to call police. In terms of resources, it's what we need. We need in our town. The people who are making decisions. I'm making decisions based on what impact them. The rich get richer in this town. I like data like, you know, when it comes to finances, I spend quite some time following where our tax dollars go in this town. OK, we have duck pack. And yet black businesses. Who were impacted by pandemic did not get anything. We have struggling by marginalized people who can guarantee of even three meals a day. And then we're doing our money so people who are already wealthy why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? Only to get those people vulnerable. To us law enforcement. What services are we providing for? Our community member who are struggling with mental health. And I can go on and on. So my point is we need to look very closely at the structure of government in our town. And the marginalized population, which I'm part of, we should be pushing to get representation to make decisions that impact us and the entire community. And if we don't do that, these are going to be status quo. Yes, our town is trying, but I would like to see more. Duck is cheap, you know, let's see action. Fund services, youth youth center, BIPOC, cultural center. Reserve money for folks who really need it. People cannot afford to live in this town anymore. Some people, you know, will pay their rent or mortgage, but they cannot afford to fix their car or medical or medical bills. And we've got tons of upper funds. I challenge folks to go back and look where most of the money went. So it's all about power. People do what is convenient for them. If police. Action doesn't, you know, do not impact them. Why would they want to worry about establishing resources for marginalized people? They won't do it. Encouraging BIPOC to run for offices. Let's have more representation. Yes, that's where you will see policy change happening in our town as possible. Let's do it. Thank you. So real quick on some data, just just for us to kind of conceptualize what's going on in and this is mapping police violence. It's a national map. Police killed one thousand one hundred and ninety two people in twenty twenty two. This is nationally and already in twenty twenty three one hundred and thirty three people. We're in February. OK, in the state of Massachusetts, there's a huge disparity in terms of arrests for low level offenses. We're not talking, you know, robbing a bank or anything. So low level offenses, black people were three times more likely and Latinx people were two point five times more likely to be arrested for low level nonviolent offenses than a white person with black people being the highest again and Latinx and white. And it's a huge gap, so it like one percent. So, you know, and we're talking about a state where white people make up a large majority, particularly in Western mass. So there's there's big disparities when it comes to, you know, public safety for black and brown folks, Allegra. Thank you, Dee, for giving some of that context. Um, and I think it's really important that we continue to come back to the idea of like the low level offenses, such as like trespassing or loitering or even shoplifting. And I'm thinking about the. Impact that arrest can have on a person like that and what a crest's response might look like versus a police response to that to those issues. I just I did want to bring up again, the conversation of mental health. And I think Ms. Pat put it very nicely that we need more resources for. And I think we need policing out of it. I just want to bring people's attention if they hadn't heard about it. There was on Sunday of this past week, a woman whose family in Eastern mass, so Eastern mass had called for a wellness check. It's my understanding that she had a BB gun and that she had some family members in her home and the police arrived with a SWAT team. She for a wellness check for a mental health call. She, you know, they asked her if the other people in the home could leave and she let them leave. And she my understanding is she was holding the BB gun and an officer fired at her and she was killed for a mental health check for for somebody feeling unsafe. And I just I think that there's there's a few things there. I think one is that is certainly not the response that I would hope for from my loved one, if I was worried about them and worried that they were going to harm themselves. I don't think bringing in somebody who ultimately ends up harming them is is the right tool for the job. And I think just more broadly the idea of kind of if all you have as a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Well, if you're carrying a taser and a gun in a call where it's probably best to show compassion and where probably fear or anger or despondency is already so strong, I would imagine if I opened my door and I was feeling like I was on my worst day and I saw somebody with a gun pointed at me, I would not feel better in that scenario. And, you know, I think just thinking about where where in the institution of police and does it say like it's more important to protect yourself in these scenarios than actually do the job and help the community if that's what you're being called to do. I'm sorry for like rambling a little bit, but I think that. For me, that is not the right response. And, you know, probably for the family who called in this particular instance, that was not the response that they were hoping for. And I just I think it's important because while it does seem to be one of the things that crests is hopefully going to be there for and will be able to respond to, I also worry. About the funding that we've been giving to Crest and the hours that they're able to respond to these calls because looking at the hours that they are available versus the hours of the highest call volumes that was put together by Leap, they're not. They're not responding during those hours. Crest isn't available during the hours where it looks like the highest call volumes are and possibly the most likely. Calls that could be diverted to Crest. I'm thinking like noise complaints and probably responses around mental health and or substance use, at least with some of some of the population. So I think, again, turning kind of the feelings of of anger and sadness around what's been going on with policing in in the state and nationally into the action is, you know, to me, I think that, again, this is a call for more funding towards Crests and again, less perhaps less filling of vacant positions so that we can in those positions over to the Crest Department because from, again, my reading of the CSWG reports part of the purpose of their work is to reduce the size and scope of the police department to reduce the chance that there would be a point of contact that could turn dangerous, especially for our Black and Brown residents. So again, I think my one takeaway is, again, trying to further resource the Crest Department and the DEI Department to do some of the work that they have been doing. And I believe have not been funded enough to do so. Thank you, Allegra. So when we heard the CSSJC and get to you or we heard last meeting that Crests is they they are at their, you know, their their ends in trying to make sure the hours that they do have that there's coverage, but they need support. And I think it's important when we talk about policing, where for the 50 states and territory, so beyond 50 states, Massachusetts is one of the highest in terms of population, how many police. In in relation to our population, we're like a red 81 percent higher than, you know, the rest of the 50 states and territories when it comes to how many police we have on the force. So just, you know, again, something to think about when you talk about Crests and funding, right, and what we are paying, what we are using our tax dollars for, Earth. So I would like to respond to Allegra, because she raises a very important point, and that is how is Crests being deployed and how are they being deployed in relationship to the original mission that the CS group proposed. When I looked at a there was a post on Facebook, it looked like a flyer and it had all of the about four different boxes in terms of Crests responsibilities. And one of them was wellness checks and mental health. But the question is, how are they being deployed at this time and how how how they are being deployed? How close is that to their mission? I think at the end of of February, should be there six months it will have been on on three for six months. It will be really good to look at all the numbers in relationship to that six month mark to see how their time has been spent. And then look at how their time has been spent in relationship to the original mission that they had. Thank you, Irv. I think that's a really important point. And we will talk about or let folks know of an upcoming listening session with Crests in March in March. And hopefully we'll have some of that data to share. They will have some of that data to share. So thank you, Brianna. Hi, everyone, Irv, thank you so much for bringing that up because it's been something that's been on my mind as well. I kind of feel like the elephant in the room for moving the community forward has been when I was on CSWG and reflecting with members who are elders in the community, this work has been done so many times. And it just pains me that some of our recommendations are being funded, but only halfway. So it's not it's not giving our recommendations the chance to do well and in the in the full scope, if that makes sense. So for example, with the Crests program, we had envisioned them having their own call center. So I worry that the community and I worry what that does to community trust as well, because as a co-chair, so many people came to be in confidence in our group via email through forums, through surveys, sharing these horrific stories that they've shared at numerous forums. And it just feels painfully disrespectful to hear that more work needs to be done to investigate things like the resident oversight board or a needs assessment for the Youth Empowerment Center. And I think that is the elephant in the room with why we can't move forward as a community. There are people that have been hurt and there's no accountability. And I, too, what Irv said, I'm interested to see how much of what Crests is doing is aligning with its true mission. Thank you, Brianna. Those are things that we, of course, will share with Earl and Crests. And hopefully they'll be able to answer some of that within the listening session. What you're referring to for it. And, you know, folks probably already know that part of Crests, part of CSWG's recommendations was a multicultural center, was a youth empowerment center, particularly for youth of color, for Black youth. And these items weren't just like, you know, pie in the sky, hey, we'd like to see that. I mean, this was born out of research that if we want to talk about interventions for young people to feel valued in our community, valued by us and empowered that these types of centers are important. And national research supports, again, going back to CSWG, national research supports what CWG and CSWG envision that if you have institutions in the community that aren't just like, you know, for service and health and I mean, those are important, but institutions that are run by, populated by folks of color, you know, the marginalized in the community, oftentimes, not all the time, but in this case, yes, that those institutions help to lower incidences of crime, incidences of interactions, negative interactions with the police. National research, yet we are ignoring that and allowing our town council and those who are, have been elected to represent us to not put these things in place for the betterment of everyone. So thank you for bringing that up, Brianna. Anyone else? And let's, you know, really talk about, you know, what's next? Solutions, what's next? Irv, yes, unless someone else, since you just spoke, had something to say, yes, Ronnie, but go ahead. So as I said, new, I don't have the deep history that you all have, but I did work very much on police community interactions where I lived before I came here. And I participated as part of that, and I think it was a six or eight week training program with the police department, riding their cars, handling a gun, doing all the stuff that police do. And, you know, Amherst to me, when I moved here, seemed so far ahead. I mean, there was money devoted to Cress. And these things that you're talking about that come from the CSWG, they're not like big ticket items like the capital projects that the town is now discussing. You know, there are three or four that are huge investments. These are smaller things. So the question that I really do not understand is why, why is it ignored? Like you're saying, like, why isn't there, I understand about the ARPA funds. I think Ms. Pat, but I don't understand why I don't, you don't have to agree, but where is it getting stuck? Is it that it's not coming up in the budget? Are we not present when the financial officer has his coffees to say, where's this in your line item? Where is it getting stuck? And why is it getting stuck? And maybe what should we be doing anything? I guess this is my question to myself. Should I be going to those coffees and saying, with my list of recommendations and saying, what about the budget for this? And I'm just asking that question. Yes. I don't want to interrupt it. Something else. Okay. Thank you, Ronnie for bringing that up. We have, and what's great is that all this is recorded, right? Because they're public meeting. So the, you know, all of these committees, finance committees have taken this up. But then it has, and we've attended. Several of us have attended these meetings. And the, the last time it was brought up about the youth empowerment center. As Brianna rightly points out, it was about, oh, they're going to, to need to fund a study. Well, the study, the research has already occurred. So they saved a lot of money. And having CSWG members do that research. So, you know, where, again, you asked where, why is it stuck? Where is it stuck? I don't know. Phillip. And then, uh, Irv will come back to you. Yeah, I think that's an important question, Ronnie, that you have. And as D said, as a person that has been to many meetings with this group in particular, talking in that discussion, yeah, it's, it's an interesting ploy to see where. I guess people's. Responsibilities liar where their priorities lie in certain issues. Um, but I want to hit on something that D are Deborah had talked about. And that was the systematic racism that occurs, occurs in police departments. And. Pointing out that, um, the five officers in Memphis were black. I think. Totally highlights that that totally is. Like if we needed an example of it, that definitely is the example that we can go to that. It is a fundamental learning style that's happening coming up from, um, there that I grew up in Los Angeles. I mean, we all. Growing up with joke. And now looking back as a joke about it. It is really sad growing up as a brown person. And with fellow, um, black kids as well. That, you know, the LAPD is the biggest gang around. We have gangs. That are literally in our communities, yet that one is kind of a sanction one. And there's evidence and the research to go behind that. Different, um, reasons to why they is just such a strong brotherhood. In that area to make it to where you can get away with a lot. In the police department and nationally, locally, statewide, wherever you want to look. And I think that that brings a point to kind of what's happened. In this past year is that. We have. Police officers. Who are so. I got to choose my words wisely here because I'm being recorded. The police department. That is so fat fragile. That we have to release state police. The police department that is so fat fragile. That we have to release statements. Almost as a boo-hoo that we're, they're under attack. Um, from certain groups. That they need to leave towns for pay cuts. They need to leave the area because it seems as if an anti-racist agenda is not the agenda that they want to be a part of. And I've had the pleasure and benefit, I guess, of having my town councilors outreach to me to speak to me on this issue. And I'm not going to name any names nor give anything out. But. Some of the conversations that I've had through that is a little bit concerning. Is that. Police officers saying in our town. They're not racist. And we all as people of color know what that means. Usually when that sentence starts, it's followed up by something that's racist. That's just the way that it goes. And that's just the way that it is. And so for a police officer to say that statement and the town counselor that I was speaking to was a white town counselor. Did. Just passed by just kind of like a glimpse of, oh, like that was just a moment of, that's what that person said. Also, we just have officers that. They're not racist. They're not racist. And so that's just the way that the police department is being underattacked in this area. And that we're going to be left with the bad ones. Well, I'm sorry. If you're leaving because that's the agenda that you don't want to be promoting or highlighting. You might be the bad one. So. For that, I think that we really need to highlight. That it is a systematic problem. That we're trying to stick to. That we're trying to be well intended. Well intended or well intention in the police department. I don't think anybody's really questioning that to an extent of. Everybody there has to be bad. What it is, is that. We would like. As a July 5th incident showed. Some accountability on the end of our police officers. If we acted this way in any type of other manner or any type of other setting, as an employee, you'd be calling to your boss's office and you'd be handed a pink slip until it get on your way. Why is it that we have a police union that then backs and just completely makes silence as we have no idea what happened to the two officers involved in the police that are in the July 5th incident. We have no idea if they were talked to. We have no idea if there was actually any like reprimands happening. We don't even have any idea of while the time the investigation was happening if they were still driving around town doing what they were doing that night. And that is very concerning as a citizen. And as a town that says that we're so progressive and as a town that says that we're so woke, we really need to assess and address what is happening in our police department. So that's why I think that the resident oversight board needs to happen like yesterday. Thank you CSWG members for recommending that. That accountability on that end needs to happen because as we saw with the July 5th incident, the families came to the human rights commission thinking that the complaint process that we have in place would do something. And as the chair, I am very deeply sorry that it did not do more. It brought awareness to this situation but our hands were tied. And I will say that out for the community to know. We tried everything that we could but at the end of the day, government hands bread tape just happened. And so for the resident oversight board to happen would be a wonderful thing because that would take care of kind of the issue of that accountability. And also Crest being underfunded, yeah, they need to really look at that and really see where that priority lies because it seems as if our town council and our town decision makers as Ms. Patts pointed out priorities are not with our BIPOCs folks. Thank you, Phillip. And I think someone had mentioned how this undermines our position to serve on these committees because if people come to us expecting us, these committees to be advocates for them on some level and bureaucracy gets in the way. Of course, there's bureaucracy and then there's will of individuals, right? And so I think it's both. There's bureaucracy that in this case but it's also will the public will and those that serve the residents, their lack of will to really try to push for change and transparency. That I feel we failed them. I wanna go back to Irv because Irv had his hand up a while back and then we'll go to Ms. Pat and then to Brianna. Irv? All right, so in first in relationship to Ms. Pat and relationship to ARPA funds, how they were spent in relationship to black businesses in town. I reviewed that list of the black businesses that you brought forward to the town and I really thank you for that. Yes, a point of order, not because we are interested in that of course Irv but does this pertain to the topic at hand having to do with public safety? Well, I was only responding to what Ms. Pat said. Okay, all right. I understand that and I won't respond to it if that's what you're saying. Well, no, I just want us to stay on topic but go ahead if it's brief. All right, just as a point of clarification in relationship to the list that Ms. Pat put forward, I reviewed that list and indeed there were these businesses in town that were there, but they were not overlooked. It's because A, they did not apply, many of them did not. B, they were not organized in a corporate manner that could be recognized as a corporation and C, well, those two are two big points. One of the things that that pointed out to Ms. Pat, when I looked at that list, was the almost complete absence of entrepreneurial training and information and education that was lacking that would allow that. For instance, there were two or three instances where I was on the downtown Amherst Foundation which we raised money to give out to businesses in the middle of the pandemic. Okay, if you could make this your last point about that because I don't want to keep on this conversation. Anyway, I'm going to stop because you don't want me to say anything, our time does not permit it. Yeah, it can come up in public comment or other topics. All right, I won't belittle that, but I think it's good information that's there. But anyway, in terms of the youth center, if I'm not allowed to speak about that. Yes, good, please. In terms of the youth center, when the last budget fiscal 23, which we're in now, was passed, there was a $500,000 amount that was given to the recreation department to explore the creation of youth center. And when I saw that item, I thought that that was not a good thing because to use money to explore something rather than create something, it was not a good thing. There are places in Amherst where that money could have been applied and should be applied to a youth center and there is a youth center available. I was pursuing it, but I ran out of bandwidth. There's only so many things I could pursue. But it is there. And the other thing is that in terms of policing, is some person, one of you said something about the police being lucky in terms of when they stopped a black or a BIPOC person, that nothing severe has happened. But there's always two sides of the pancake there. You can also say that some of what you have, this group has been recommending, and some of the things that have come forward might have impacted the police put department into in terms of further training. So those kinds of things don't happen. And I think that the way this community works and work with the way that any community works is that if there is something that is of critical importance, such as a youth center, a person like me can't run out of bandwidth in terms of pursuing it, but others should be able to pursue that. I think that in relationship to Crest and how it's being utilized when that data comes out, groups like your group and other citizens need to raise the issues so that those resources are spending in correct manner. One last thing, I have been deeply involved with this community for over 50 years. One of the things that I specialized in and made sure that I was a part of was always finance. I was always on the finance committee when the town meeting was in place. I'm on budget committee now in town. I'm on the JCPC. And one of the things that I know, and all of you need to take note of in terms of what you're talking about. And this has been coming because it's been warned about is that the town is going to be facing a fiscal cliff and fiscal 24, we can view it. Fiscal 25, we will fall off of that cliff. And services of all kinds are going to suffer immensely. We're seeing some of that right now in the school committee where we now know that there are cuts that are gonna have to be made just for the upcoming fiscal year, fiscal 24. So fiscal 24 is gonna be horrendous. But not as horrendous as fiscal 25. And I just wanna put everyone, all of you on notice there. If you have issues and things that you want to see funded, then you really need to get out in front with the council members and start attending the finance committee meetings and the JCPC meetings and all those meetings and making your voice heard. Or else you will be like only an echo. Thank you. Thank you, Irv. We have attended, by the way, the finance committee meetings, as you say, the bandwidth gets short because of the level of stress and energy it takes to push and to challenge the status quo in this community. I can speak for myself. I won't speak for others. But we have, I have attended putting forth why the youth empowerment centers needed. I'm so glad to hear your solidarity and allyship about the Youth Empowerment Center. Maybe we can combine our short bandwidth and really make this happen because our youth deserve it and our youth need it. So I'm glad to hear that. Thank you so much, Irv. Ms. Pat. Ms. Pat, you're muted. You're muted. Oh, just sell them. Oh, okay. Okay. So I'm going to be very quick to respond to Rani's question, what is holding us back? What is holding back? What is holding back is people who make the decision. Some of you have alluded to that already. Is it time counsel? Look at the makeup there. Even people who tried to change the status quo made invisible. They are disrespected. They are ignored and diminished. I've been in this town for 40 years exactly this year. And for the past 30-something years I've been involved with the school system and lately with the town. And so I have seen at various stages people advocating, but if you belong to a certain group that don't have any power, meaning if you're not a landowner, landlord, you're not elected officials, you're not white middle class, your issues will be ignored. It is what it is. So even bring it closer home is couple of years with CSWG. There are some counselors who were loving behind the scene to get rid of us because they were uncomfortable. The recommendations were trying to make. It came back to us privately. People who do not want any of the recommendation, they were dismissive. They thought we want to shut down APD. Which wasn't. I don't think anybody at CSWG is saying close down police department. What we're saying is move resources around. If we create quests, we may not need as many police officers as we had. So that's what I'm going to say, Ronnie. I hope that answer your question. People have been doing this over the years. It depends who is advocating. Do you belong to the status quo? If you belong to the status quo, then your issues will get done. And I know MS may look like we are ahead. I would challenge people about that. This may not be the forum to do that. Doing business in Hardley, it will be a different time to discuss that. Because my experience as a business woman in MS is very different from Hardley. And I'm not saying Hardley is perfect. It has its own issues. But I'm glad I'm doing some of my businesses in Hardley. That's all I can say right now. Going quickly about Crest Program. First, I will start with the positive. In that Crest has done a great job in trying to, you know, in terms of publicity. There have been so many places. However, I've also had some parents come to me about some Crest responders being in the school system. Again, I think the assumption of people making Crest program being very close with APD, being in the community. So people feel like Crest might be an extension of the police. And so when you have Crest responders in school system, in the schools or school-related activities, people are concerned. And you heard one community member speak during public comment. But she is not the only one. People do come to, you know, all of us privately to express their concern. And they're moving Mr. Uproads. We don't always agree in a lot of issues. But there are some comments you made tonight that I actually do agree with you. Doesn't actually, doesn't it make sense if some businesses, you know, are not trained well, you know, don't have the resources to run their business efficiently? Wouldn't it make sense that those are the people that actually need the resources to build their business, rather than giving those money to already established wealthy organization? OK, so that's the way I said. They did not apply, perhaps, you know, they are overwhelmed with the process to apply. And again, it points to, you know, competency of whoever is administering the grant. OK, a certain, you know, segment of business community is not applying. I would think, you know, the, you know, other creative ways would be a way to reach out to them, knock on, you know, at their businesses. There's no phone call. You know, do you know this is happening? It did not happen with some people. So I'm glad you raised it, but you will think people who are financially struggling will benefit to help with the economic development in our town. OK, and then you talk about, you know, 2024 because of huge project that we're doing. I'm trying to be very gentle about our town, but I don't understand how we recklessly spend tax dollars. Why we feel that we need a mega Jones library. The elephant in the room, we're predicting that we have so much to do, we need to borrow money. And we're using the school for elementary school as a frontline to encourage people to vote to borrow money. I mean, I, you know, I would like it to pass, but what is it in there for BIPOC folks? What is our youth center? What is our BIPOC cultural center? Move some money from the Jones library. We don't need mega, mega, mega library. We can use some money from there to fulfill this. So when I go to vote in May, I know that I'm getting something beside, you know, school is wonderful. We want that. We want DPWU. We want our fire station. I really don't care about the mega Jones library. And who are the people pushing for this? They are the status quo in our town. They are the power engine. They move this town. And so it doesn't matter. They will find money. They will go to our elected officials on federal and state level to get additional tax dollars that belongs to all of us to fund Jones library. And so for May election, I would like Red Grass Route organizing for our town officials to answer questions. Why are we borrowing this amount of money? We have reserved as well. Let's manage our money very well. And we have very intelligent staff working for our town. But because it's tax dollars money, we try to please certain segment of our community. And that's not right. I don't buy the fact that 2024 we're going to go into financial crisis. That's scared tactics. I have children who work at Wall Street. And they are very aware of what is happening in our town. I discuss in our town issues with them. We are not going into any type of crisis financially. I mean, this is where resource, but where is our money going to is the question. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Yeah, I just want us to kind of keep it on topic because all of this is about what CSSJC does. Most definitely, it's about trying to achieve equity through diversity, diversity being a strength. I would say all of these conversations about economic equity, having, again, those types of institutions in a community strengthens the community and adds to public safety. And so I would ask folks in our town, the chamber, the bid, to really, really try to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak, and also, Irv, what you're talking about in terms of cultivating and mentoring because having more black and brown businesses strengthens public safety. There's an investment in the community. Brianna. Yeah, I just wanted to say, in my own experience, I don't know where we go forward from here, and I commend you all for the work that you're doing. I time and time again feel discouraged by participating in government because I see, in local government, because of the hypocrisy that happens. It kills me that on the CSWG, we had to have folks who have dramatically experienced the police or not felt safe in the community come to a live recorded meeting but for private meetings with town counselors in the police department to happen. And that's just recent. And it kills me again, too, that we're using data as a metric to stand behind CSWG's recommendations and ignoring the lived experiences of residents and their stories. And if we're really following the data, data suggests that town of Amherst is not a violent town. Why do we have so many police? We have the UMass PD and we have the Amherst police. So I just, the hypocrisy is just out of control. That's all I wanted to say. And I just continue to feel discouraged about where we move forward from here. There's no transparency, and because there's no transparency, there's no accountability, and it feels like there's no way to move forward. And I've heard folks talk about healing, not in this meeting, but in other settings. And I don't think healing happens before accountability and transparency does. Absolutely, Brianna. Thank you. And please stay involved. We're all in this together. That's the only way it's going to happen. Deborah. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, in terms of the funding, I mean, they don't want to fund these things because they just don't want to, right? Because marginalized people of color in the communities, we just don't matter. I mean, no one wants to say it, I'll say it. And I'll just be clear. It's not about deficiencies. It's not about any of those things. It's about prioritizing those that have property, those that have wealth in the community, and those that call the shots in the community. And then the others that are marginalized are the ones that are kept to the side. And so they have us, though, that are fighting for them. And that's why we've been able to progress and DEI and others in place. But just to remind, because we're talking about these issues, we're talking about the police. And we're talking about what just happened yet again in terms of Tyree Nichols. So I have the matrix that Lynn Grissomere from Town Council and the town manager, Paul Bachman, presented November 8, 2021 in regards to the CSWG recommendations, Part B, that were specific to the police, right? So just besides oversight resonant board, which we already had said was critical, we had rewriting the APD use of force policy. That's not been done, right? Prohibit APD consent searches of vehicles, either by rewriting APD policy or by law. This is the matrix that Lynn and Paul Bachman put together that they said they were going to do, which none of them has been done, right? Prohibit APD low level and pretextual traffic stops either by rewriting APD policy or by town by law, because these were all our recommendations. Add checkbox to vehicle stop report form. Was this stop intelligence led, right? So that was the checkbox. Make other recommended updates and revisions and APD policies. Negotiate recommended changes in the APD offices contract and the next contract negotiation. Create an online dashboard to give the public access to monthly data on APD traffic stops by race. Create an unarmed non-police division of traffic control and enforcement, leaving only arrestable traffic offenses to the APD, right? And then of course, engage in the community visioning process that we wanted Dr. Bahra love to be engaged in. Develop an anti-racist departmental culture in the APD. All of those things, right? We didn't have to wait for tragedy to happen and happen and happen. November 8th, 2021. We are in 2023, February 2023. None of those things have occurred. And we're still talking about part A, right? Youth empowerment, multicultural center. None of those things, you know, shrinking the police department, but instead it's actually adding more police. The police shouldn't be dealing with anything that is nonviolent at this point, right? And that more money should be going to crest, more money should be going to dealing with those things. And when we're talking about what is crest responding to, crest is being asked to respond to everything, basically at this point, right? With no money. Because we don't trust the police to respond to those things. And that's why crest is responding to it. And really trying to respond to things so that then what's gonna be the inevitable outcome, then failure on the part of crest, right? Because they don't have the capacity, they don't have the right funding, they don't have the right equipment, they don't have the right waste of response. They aren't responding in the hours that we have said that they should be responding in. So it's a failure complete, right? So we know what's occurring. So just, you know, putting it out there so everyone knows what's occurring. And we know what the action steps should be and could be. But yet, like I said in my initial statement when I first started, but why it's not happening and the resistance to why it's not happening, right? Because the powers to be those that are proper deed and have the wealth don't want to move this. But we're not gonna arrest and this is gonna happen. But I just wanna make sure we're clear about what's occurring. Thank you, Deborah, for reminding us about part B and those action steps. I truly believe within the town council we need to make them remember, you know, these action steps, remind them of what has already taken place. I'm with Irv on celebrating and recognizing what has happened positively. But we have this institution, Chris, that was created and by next year, with the dire prediction that Irv is putting out there and I've heard the finance committee also talk about that. It may not have any funding at all and it was never fully funded in the first place. Budgets reflect values and priorities of a community, period. And that is something I firmly believe in. I've been saying it for the last two to three years and we really need to follow the money as Ms. Pat says and really push for that culture shift, right? That needs to take place in Amherst and within APD. Irv, I believe you're next. I think that two things and one in relationship to the list that Deborah put out there was supposed to be the action items that were agreed upon. Anything that is agreed upon that is not acted upon is not a priority. I would suggest that this group look at three of those items that you really want the town to focus on in the upcoming year and then push all the right buttons in town, town counts, et cetera. So that those items get done. They should not be left undone. But I do know when you have a long list, the longer the list, the longer the time that it never happens. And you have to concentrate upon that. Secondly, it is really imperative that what you said Pat in terms of black businesses, it is imperative that those businesses get the resources they need. I do know from personal experience on the downtown Amherst Foundation, I reached out to the black businesses that I knew were in existence and they got money. But I didn't know of the ones on your list. If I didn't know that, I'd have been honored. Also on that list Pat, technical assistance is primary. And that is something that you and I need to talk about. Sure. All right, and I'm willing to talk to you about that. I really appreciate, I have to leave, but I really appreciate being able to talk with you all. And the budgets are gonna be, I'm on the school committee, as I mentioned, and we are first facing budget cuts because of this. And this fiscal year coming up, falling fiscal year is gonna be even worse in terms of cuts, unless something else happens. All of you need to be prepared for what that is going to mean for this town. I do worry about where the town is going to go and how they're going to be able to fund all what they considered to be priorities. Everything can't be a priority. If everything's a priority, then nothing's a priority. So you have your work cut out for you in terms of the things that you've committed yourself to do. I have one question. Does this committee have an expiration date? What do you mean, which committee? Which one? The SSYC. Yes, does it have an expiration date? No. Well, it has no expiration date. Then that's really good because you can take three items and say, at least for next year, we want these three things to be done and then push for it. That means you have to prioritize among those items. Anyway, I really appreciate it. And I thank you for your time in allowing me to be and talk with you. Thank you. Thank you, Irv, for attending and thank you for your suggestions. Allegra. I'll be in touch, Mr. Irv. I don't have your phone number, though, but I'll be in touch. I have your email and other stuff. Okay. All right. Thank you. Let's talk. Bye. Bye. So I just wanted to thank Deborah for re-focusing the conversation around some of the things that CSWG had recommended. And I just wanted to, and I think this has been said many times, but I wanted to remind us that most of the parts in part B, the significant changes to the police department and the way they operate aren't gonna cost anyone. Changing a policy is not gonna cost money. So I hear what Irv is saying in terms of prioritizing things. And I think that there are some things that will be more of a long haul commitment to doing work. And I think there are perhaps some things that the commitment from town wouldn't be financial. So perhaps it could be addressed easier, although again, this list was from November 8th, 2021. So I just wanted to point that out for us to think about, because I do, again, think that a lot of the things like stopping consent searches and pre-tech stops that will eliminate a lot of arrests. And I think just working in the court system seeing, well, then an arrest means an officer has to go to court and an officer actually gets paid more for when they're in court because they get their shift plus four hours court time, plus overtime, plus it turns into a lot of money. So I think by eliminating the chance for arrests to be made, it also saves money on the other side because you're not paying for all the stuff that comes with an arrest. So something to think about. Thank you. We are coming up on just past 7.30. I just wanna make a point and we could take a couple of more comments and then we should probably move on and all of this stuff is noted and as actionable items, hopefully. The George Floyd and Policing Justice Act has all those elements that Deborah mentioned. And post, which is the state law about reporting, fits within the George Floyd and Policing Act. Of course, we need to as folks within the United States really write our representatives, our Congresspeople to say we want this passed, right? It's just one part of the tool set to make sure that our folks are safe. But post within the state also has some of those elements within the George Floyd Policing Act. How I see us on the local level, taking those elements from those larger policies, one that's proposed, it hasn't been passed yet. Certainly the state one has been passed but really utilizing those as frameworks for what could happen here in Amherst locally with the APD, the types of reporting measures we want to see, the types of accountability we want to see. And it's not a bad suggestion what IRV makes, all of it needs to be passed, certainly, but to kind of concentrate on what we see as priority for this year and then bring it back around for next year. But Allegra, the issue about, it doesn't cost them anything to create a culture shift in APD doesn't cost them anything. And I really think next town council meeting, we need to come out of this meeting with a list of priorities and bring it to our town council. This is what we want to see this year. This is what we want to see in 2023. This is what we will be judging you town council members that we elected in terms of voting for you next time. Accountability in other words. So that's just one thing, but it doesn't cost them, like you say Allegra, it doesn't cost them anything. Let's see, there was something else. So Liz is joining us from Human Rights Commission. Oh, great. Dr. Mesa. That's, please, yes. Hello, Liz, hey good of Human Rights Commission. Hello, how are you? Yes, good to have you here. Hopefully you've heard some of our conversation where we're kind of in the point of wrapping it up, but if there's something you would like to share about the national issue, public safety and how it connects to us locally. Well, everything connects to us as a human rights. We have so many things that are going on in this world and people are not understanding how it's making us feel internally as a people when we want to travel outside of our comfort areas and how disconcerting it can be when we're driving down the street and we see the police cars behind us, you know? It's also disconcerting to know that it continues to happen. I don't understand how it is that when you have these folks who have their videotape on and thought that what they were doing to that young man was okay. So when you look at that and you see that they don't even care while they're actually recording what they're doing and don't see that that's a problem, systemically there's an issue that all of us need to be addressing. So I haven't been able to hear a lot. I tried to log on before. My phone was giving me trouble. I'm actually working at the senior night at the high school for senior night for boys basketball. So I haven't been able to hear what's been going on but as a human rights issue we should all have the right to feel protected and safe whenever we venture out of our comfort areas. And that's not what's happening for us in all of these circumstances of brutality. And then I look at the fact that some of the people that are mentoring us through that some of our elders, Professor Bracey I will say is one who we could turn to to find some peace and comfort or at least understanding. And now they are leaving us and joining our ancestors. So where do the people in our generation go for that as we try to then help the younger generation coming up behind us. So those are my thoughts. Thank you Liz and thank you for taking time out of mentoring and being there for the young people and being with us in this meeting. Any closing thoughts for where to go in terms of this discussion and actionable items? Yes. Sorry, just one quick thing. Sorry, just one quick thing. Never heard from Freckett, did he want to say anything? Good point. I've been listening to the discussions and I find them lively and I've been learning a lot from them. I think the only thing I would add would be that the frustration of municipal politics is the reason people don't get into it but it might also be the reason why we have to still push on to create the change that we expect frustration shouldn't be a reason to back out but maybe to lean in. Thank you. Good point, Freckett. Thank you. Thank you, Deborah, for making sure we stopped and paused. Appreciate it. Ms. Pat. So for me, I always, Liz, thank you for your comments and everything that you do in our community. So for me, I think, you know, this is great that we gather to debrief and stuff but I would like to see a follow-up action. Where do we go from here? I think, you know, pulling from what CSWG did, you know, we went to town council a couple of times to push for what we're asking them to do. So I will hope that we will reach out to town council to invite the three groups and for our coaches to, you know, present what we want. For this, for the budget season, like what our demands are and tie into the vote that is coming up in May. So whether or not town council have busy agenda, I really don't care. They need to make time for majority BIPOC committees for us to let them know what our priorities are too. You know, we pay taxes in this town, we live in this town and we do matter. We may not get everything that we want but history shows that if we go to them and push, push, push, push, we might get one or two which we did with DEI and Cress. So not repeating myself, we do need to figure out the side, you know, who is going to reach out to the town council about scheduling, putting the three groups together at the meeting. We have to participate in the budget. We have to. And I know that CSWG have drafted something that, you know, we need to look at and, you know, revised that we have something that, you know, our group can do. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Absolutely. So I see definitely as an actionable item and we just got to, you know, decide as CSSJC who's going to reach out. It could be, you know, both Allegra and I or one of us. And if we're, I don't know if we're in agreement in terms of three groups, I'm sure Human Rights Commission will have to have that conversation amongst their members, AHRA, you know, I see this part of reparations. I see this as a human rights issue. So this intersects with all of our missions, you know. The other thing is that I would really like to follow up with what Allegra suggested on what doesn't cost a thing. This is the low hanging fruit town council. And this is part of a culture shift that could happen and benefit this entire community. And so to look at those items in part A and part B, but particularly part B, and figure out what are, you know, no cost items that could happen this year. And then also prioritize what are things we need to ask for in terms of a budget, most certainly more money for Cress. So any other ideas? I just wanted to remind us that one of the other agenda items is to review the letter that Pat and I had put together regarding the budget. So that will be part of our discussion tonight. Thank you. And I think we should move on. Can I ask one question though? And I don't know the full details of the relationship between CSWG and LEAP. But I wonder if it would be helpful, if it would be fruitful to reach out to see if they would even just write a small statement saying like, these are things that don't cost anything. Why aren't you doing the things that you paid us, whatever you paid us to do, to tell you why did you pay us to do this if you're not actually into it? I mean, they probably wouldn't say it that way, but if it's not a good idea, we can just move along. Can I just make a comment just on me? I'm not sticking for CSWG with our town government. I don't want anybody going after CSWG, come after Pat on any back, okay? Our town, if you tell them what you, they don't want to hear, they cut you off. So interpret that way, interpret it the way you want to interpret it, if that makes sense to people. They go to consultants that would agree with them, they go to contractors that would do what they want them to do. So I'll just leave it that way. Okay, well, there's something to unpack in there because if Allegra is saying LEAP, okay. That's all I can say. Okay, Debra, do you have a comment? No, I mean, I just think it would just be for us to just stick with what we have, right? In terms of CSWG recommendations and kind of like what we were discussing, maybe really looking at the things that they could put in place right away and then some of the other things that we can go after and things like that and really try to prioritize. But I think we need to kind of have that conversation before we kind of go to the town council to make sure that we're clear as a group in terms of what it is that we want to prioritize and then take it. Because there's certain things that, and we need to make sure that it is what the community wants, right? So out of all of these recommendations and things I have from part A and part B, what is it that our community wants us to advocate for them, right? In terms of the priorities and then what's the other kind of action items? So some of these might be, yeah, there's those that they can put in right away but some of them that they might not, that the community might want us to put in place might cost some money, but we still need to fight for that. You know what I'm saying? But that's what the community wants. So I think that those, so I think for me, that would be the kind of next conversation so that we could be ready to bring it to the town council. Okay, so and I agree. I think it needs to be a more fuller discussion and I'm wondering HRC's energy to engage in that maybe form a subcommittee and we'll see if AHRA folks, my husband included, you know, if we can get a member from each of these committees to go through the CSWG documents to kind of reframe that. We have Cress, we have DEI. The other stuff hasn't been funded. The other stuff has not happened. Let's now reframe and reprioritize for 2023 what needs to occur. And it's in the best interest of all three of these different committees that are primarily BIPOC. So I don't know if folks are interested in doing something like that. We are able to form subcommittees as long as they're not a quorum to go through those documents and then make a recommendation, have a meeting where you all present a recommendation of this is how to approach the things that don't necessarily cost anything. And this is a way to approach the other priorities that have not occurred under, you know, in 2022 and 2023. What are folks' feelings about that? When looking at the documents of CSWG, so we're just looking at documents and then going from it and proposing something to town council. Right, well, you're going to present it to our committees, right? Because if we go as, you know, CSWG, HRC and AHRA together and say these are things of common good and common interest for all three of these committees, but for the town and these are our, this is what we would like to see happen. But you present those recommendations as subcommittee would basically go through those documents, present the recommendations to us to agree that this is what we want to bring up to the town council. So honestly, I think, and I know that chairs and co-chairs, you guys do a lot. I think it will make sense for the co-chairs and chairs of the three committees to meet and, you know, look into it. I know it's a lot of work unless the foundational people want to volunteer that time. So I think, so Allegra and I weren't on CSWG. That's, you know, although I'm very familiar with the documents, of course, I'm very familiar with the research, and having contributed, you know, as a contractor to it. But I think it would be helpful at least for one CSWG member to be a part of that subcommittee. And it can't be three of us. So it would have to be two of us, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Open meeting law. And I would, you know, think it would, again, it's a suggestion, but having at least one person from either AHRA or HRC to be a part of that so that it's not just CSSJC presenting this to the entire group. Yeah. That's my suggestion. I don't know how folks feel about it, but I'd like to hear some input. I think it's a good idea. I think it's one that obviously I'd have to bring to HRC to see others, how they feel about it. And I think that my participation in it may get tricky just because I do belong to two groups. I don't want to have open meeting law into itself. I don't know. Ronnie and Liz, if you'll have anything to add. I think it's a really great idea to focus on one or two things and really push for it. I think it's going to require a mobilization of a whole bunch of people, not just us relating to the council, but getting a lot of people to also speak to their counselors and so on. So I think it's going to be sort of a big push. So, you know, I would certainly be supportive of doing my part in my neighborhood and elsewhere and pushing and drawing attention, but it's very difficult, at least in my experience, that to come to that one thing and to have the language and the words and sounding like a marketing person, but actually that's what it takes. You really have to narrow it down to something that people can understand and buy into and be energized about. And then we can go and yes, the town council, but the town council needs their constituents to speak to them. So even if it is something without cost, because if there's something that doesn't cost any money and isn't being done, there are bigger reasons for that. And, you know, which means it'll be a hard thing to achieve. I don't think we should assume that because there's no cost, it's easy. Yeah, so I think these things, these kinds of changes, at least from what I've watched of the interaction with the town council on these issues and others is just that it's a hard thing to do. And I would even say one, you know, like that resident advisory board, which I think is really important, but I'd forgotten. I read this whole thing when I first moved to Amherst. I did read the report, but I've forgotten what else is it. Yeah, I think it's a great idea, but I think it's going to require a lot of work and commitment. So whoever you pick on the respective subcommittees have to be people who can put time into it and who are connected in there, in this town of Amherst to mobilize other people, not just come from a small group of black and brown people. Anyway, that's my thought. Yeah, no, those are good thoughts, Ronnie. And I know Ms. Pat has something to add, but I want to pick up on two things you said, that it has to be placed in kind of digestible way for the community to really latch on to the messaging, right? And the ideas, I think we're capable of doing that. You know, I think CSWG did the legwork and it is, to me, it would be a disservice to let it flounder. You know, the town, I can tell you, raises up Cress and DEI as exemplary within the state of Massachusetts and within the US, as well as they should. Of course, when we did those reports, particularly on my end, I looked at other communities as models who were ahead of us and still are. So it's achievable. It will take work, but the wording, the information is already there. We have to lift it from the page because most people, unlike you, have not read it. Many of our people in public office have not read it. Not really. And so we have to lift it off the page, get that messaging in ways that folks understand. Succinctly and clearly. And then take that, as you say, to the community and it may take a bit of some listening sessions, some type of campaigning to bring that message so folks will show up at town council when we present. This is what we'd like to see in 2023. So I'm in agreement with you. I don't see it, however, as insurmountable. Ms. Pat. Okay. So I just want to state that CSWG, in addition to the red document that we produced, there are some topics that we kind of discussed, but we didn't go into detail. And then it surfaced again with CSSJC and it has to do with paying stipend to committees. To encourage diverse residents to participate because active participation do lead to us having representation. So we didn't have any of those in CSS, in CSWG recommendation, but Allegra and I worked on something that I hope that it will get to town council. And also the issue of elder and child care will prevent people from participating because nobody, they need somebody to watch their kids while they attend meetings. So there are a couple of few things that we may think is very minute, but that's what we need if we want cultural change, if we want to change the status quo that we really need to push. I'm hoping that it will make it into the budget to motivate people to run collection. I think town councilors, as much as I don't agree with some of them, it's long hours. I don't think they are compensated well and I don't think it will give anybody motivation to even run. It sucks what they're getting paid for. So I'll just shut up. On a positive note, I just want to publicly thank Ms. Jennifer Moisten for forwarding a webinar that I, you know, to see SSJC members. I watched the webinar on resident oversight. It's not what they call it, but oversight boards, different types with the town of Somerville, city of Somerville. I thought that was informative. They have like follow-up webinars, like three or four more left, but I thought that was really nice presentation. I like the fact that they had translation in different languages. That was really, really cool. I think it was yesterday was nice. So I just want to thank her publicly for sharing that information, the event. Thank you, Ms. Pat. And I did, I wasn't able to attend because I was doing a workshop myself, but I was impressed that it had actually advertised or, you know, put in the description all of the different languages for translation, which we have been trying to get as an equity issue for this town. Yes, Allegra, and I want to say, and then it'll be Brianna, but we should begin tying up this conversation. I will volunteer, I need a CSWG member to help me go through that information in order to look at it. What are the items that don't require cost? What are the priorities we could send up as a proposal to our groups so we could agree upon taking it to the council? So I'll volunteer me. I just, I need someone else to be a part of that. Bye, Ronnie. Thank you for joining us. You have to leave. Okay, I want to suggest when we get to the listening session, all I have is just details about it. The post update, I think Allegra can do that fairly quickly. And then our last item, letter support for Crescent DEI and then public comment and we begin to close out. Okay, Allegra. Well, I was just gonna say, perhaps since it kind of ties in, we could move the letter of support up since the other two might be quick. And I was also wondering if we could take like a two second wiggle break. Yes. I need to wiggle. Please, are we good with that? Let's be back in a couple of minutes. I just, I don't want it to go any further than 830 and I'm really trying not to even get to 830. So, all right, let's take a quick break. Besides the break comment, Allegra, did you have something else to comment on? Oh, no, that was the only thing I wanted to see if we could... Yes, which is very important. Is Ms. Pat back? Yes. Oh, okay. Oh, sorry. I am back, yeah. Yes, I am. Okay, great. All right. Brianna, are you back? We could begin with you. So, I just wanted to volunteer to help look through the recommendations with you. I'm definitely interested in that. And then two, I just wanted to comment on something that Allegra had brought up before and something that I find a little suspicious, but I just wanted to throw it out there. It feels a little bit weird to me that the Crest program is getting national and even praise from Canada on the program and they're using the LEAP report, but that LEAP is nowhere to be found to analyze how efficient Crest has been working. I find that a little bit suspicious and I just wanted to say that on the record. Thank you. You know, it's interesting they are, as we were informed by Earl Miller last meeting, they are creating this dashboard that will have information available, the stats and everything about Crest. And, you know, we need to bring that up in the listening session because folks are, you know, when this rolled out, it was very new, but of course CSWG has more intimate knowledge on the models, right? That Crest was utilized to draw from, but it has become its own kind of entity. So I think it would be great to have CSWG, at least some of you comment during the listening session planned in March, you know, how you see this rollout of Crest, you know? I'm sure there's room for improvement. There's stuff maybe they did meet, but you know, what are the challenges still ahead? So thank you, Brianna, for sharing that. So very quickly, Brianna just, you know, make comment that needs more time to unload. It doesn't make sense to me that Leap was involved in helping CSWG with some aspects of our project. And I don't see the reason why they can be called back to help with the evaluation. It just, logically, it didn't make sense. Something is fishy. That's all we can say, right, Brianna? Brianna. I agree with that, yeah. That's all we can say. Right, Debbie? Whatever. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. We'll just leave it like that, because the town council already voted to give the contract 10% of whatever grant that DPH gave the town to the Donahue Institute. You know, they have to look for organization that will support the status quo. That's all I can say. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, I know there's a certain threshold where a lot of this is supposed to go out to bid. And it should be a competitive bid. So we're watching. We're watching, paying attention. Okay, thank you. White-led organization, Donahue Institute. So thank you for this. I think it was a really helpful conversation. We have some actionable items. And thank you, Brianna, for volunteering to help me go through those documents. And so by the next time we meet, I'll have something to present so we can, you know, decide how we want to proceed. Okay. So as suggested by Allegra, I think it's a good suggestion. Let's talk about the letter of support for C-I. Want me to share screen? Oh yeah, can you? Hopefully. Maybe. I'll just read it. No? Okay. Can you see what I see? Is it okay? Okay. No, no. You can't see it, Ms. Pat? No, I can see it, but not the letter, though. No, the agenda. I'm not, let's see. Do, do, do. You can't, can you? Yeah, I can't see it now. Okay, perfect. All right. Do you want me to read it out loud? No. Look at it on the screen or do we want to? Did people read it? Yes. But are there certain areas you want to point out as, as important? Thank you, Brianna. I mean, I, so I think in talking about Cress, I did want to highlight that there has been all this. Yeah. National attention. Yes, attention and, and going around and showing off what's happening yet. The funding isn't there to say, like, look how much we can do because we are already struggling to meet the need of our service. And so I wanted to kind of try and highlight that and just support more staffing according to CSWG's staffing plan. Do people have anything that they would add or subtract around Cress funding or the framework of how that's laid out? Yeah, could you go down a little bit to the second additional? There we go. Thank you. So basically our thinking is that we, you know, we didn't put any dollar amount. But just to task the town council and the town manager to go back to what CSWG had recommended, because, you know, things change, maybe the health insurance has gone up and so on and so forth. But so we try not to put any dollar amount. So one of my questions, particularly in light of this conversation we had tonight, is it time to deploy this letter or is this something that should wait for the discussion of Part B and CSWG? I think it should wait. I think it should be part of the presentation to the town council when they invite the three committees. It's just my thinking, it's just my opinion, but it might need to be, you know, flesh out a little bit, but. I think it can be a both and. I don't think we have to do one or the other. I think we should do both because it's February and the budget is due in May. And I would like to have something submitted to the town council to say like we, these are still, these, like I think the way that I'm looking at it, these budget items are always going to be important and we will, these are maybe some of the longer term things that may not get to it, but if we don't beat the drum continuously, they're gonna forget about things is my take on it. And so I think that we could do both. Okay. So good to remind them early on and then come back around with something that's more itemized. Yeah. The only, let me chime in. I mean, that, that is good, but then the only thing is, is that, and I remember, I forget which town council was, but you know, one of the ones that's like really resistant, I forget her name. The one that's probably. Imagine, go ahead. So I forget her name, but anyway. Anyway, you know, with her, it's just like, you know, she's always kind of talking about how we throw too much at them and this and that and they get confused and so on and so forth. So I think it's just like, if we kind of send this and there's a bunch of different things and then we send them something else and there's some more other things, you know, I think if we're, if we're sending the same list over and over again, I get it, you know, but if we're adding and doing this and this, like within, this is for the budget, right? So what, you know, I think that was the discussion we had today was just kind of like, okay, what do we want them to really focus on for this fiscal year and then for the next fiscal year so on and so forth, right? So I think we want to kind of be strategic and do that because I think if we throw everything at them, you know what they're going to say. And we're like, oh yeah, you threw everything at us and we don't know what you really wanted. So we did nothing. Right. That's my only thought, but I mean. So in summary, what we're asking for is three themes, three items, okay? So we're talking about center, you know, for youth, for BIPOC cultural center. And then we're talking about how to diversify our town committees by incentivizing them. If you want to scroll down, it's like, like three main themes is what I see here. No, no, but I'm saying like in terms of, but then we had the discussion today about obviously adding the other stuff around like the APD recommendations and stuff like that because of everything going on. That's all I'm saying. My thing would just be like, why don't we just put everything into one coherent letter, you know what I'm saying? And get that to them like, so once D comes back with that end of it, you know, and we have that discussion, we add everything together and then send it to them as opposed to probably more so kind of like, yeah, more in the points, like point one, to make it very clear, very succinct, so almost like an executive summary for them. Absolutely. Does anybody want to like, you know, review this and, you know, refine it? I'm thinking like we have like two documents, one that says budget. This is what is going to cost money. And this is what isn't going to cost money. What is stopping you guys to implement this? Right, or one larger document. I really see this as Deborah, you know, maybe she would say this or not, but like a kind of a report, like, you know, we've been in place for a matter of months and the budget processes come around and these are the things that we see are needed and are also a part of our mission. So I'd like to see something, you know, just that formal in a way and hyperlinks or research cited at the end of it because, you know, they're busy. I won't say that they're not lazy because they have a lot of meetings they attend and a lot of reading that they're doing, but they're not going to do the research for us. So like when we put something about, you know, these particular things we'd like to see such as the childcare, you know, last meeting, I presented one option in the Northeast. It was in Vermont where that town has done something about it, you know, we need to include those types of examples and research for these folks because that's how they, you know, I know that's how they think and then they still try to marginalize you, but I think we need to have that included. We actually have that data, we have that research and I'm not discounting people's firsthand experience. I mean, we know with our town counselor, Alicia, it's very prohibitive, you know, for her as she's trying to navigate, you know, work, parenting and these very lengthy town council meetings. So we've proposed something within this letter and I thank you all for putting that there for both elder care and childcare. But like I said, I think it's important that we have the data. I'd be glad to add that part. That's what I do as a researcher to any of the things that we send to the town council. I just, personally, I feel that that's necessary. So I'd be happy to add those things in. So to be clear, we don't have AHRAP right now. Is it my understanding that we're still going through committees to finalize documents or is it just JC going it alone? I hope AHRAC would be a part of it, but I'm sure they have to get approved. Like, you know, we have to prove our stuff. AHRA, that's a different thing. I have an AHRA member in my household, but he does not represent a consensus. So we can share this with them, see where they'd like to be a part of it. But it sounds like whether they're part of it or not, we're going to present this to the town council. Yeah, I think, yeah, we should move forward. Yeah. So for some of us who may not, you know, who may be getting off the committee in June and, you know, summertime, people don't pay attention. I'm hoping that, you know, the town council will make time for us to get in in April. I hope, you know, before the... So I need to make a request. Yeah, we need to make a request. I also, we need to figure out because I think aren't... So there was the motion back in November, right? The council passed the motion and one of the things that they said they were going to do was look at some of the policies that might be changeable within APD. So technically they've already said, we need to do some of this work, possibly. You know, that that is one of the things they instructed the town manager to do. And I don't remember if it was a three month or a four month date that he was supposed to have a report back to them, to us, to whoever. I'm just... I'm wondering about that and if that could be a somewhat combined meeting. I'm just, I'm trying to be realistic because I know that CSWG kind of got the run around with like when they had to put their budget together to actually have Mr. Bachmann incorporate any of the suggestions into his budget. So I just, my concern is if we aren't getting anything to town council or to the finance committee or to whoever it's going to until April, that's gonna be too late. No, what I'm saying is, you know, we contact them like next week, you know, right to the, you know, town council chair or co-chairs and the town manager that we would like to meet with them. The reason why I'm suggesting April is we've already committed to doing in a public gathering, you know, for press. Yeah. You know, practically it looks like we don't have any choice but to meet twice in March and twice in April. And I know, you know, everybody's very overextended but that's how it's looking like. We can't just have, you know, once, one meeting in March and April. That's not, we're not going to accomplish what we're hoping to accomplish. I think. I agree for the, particularly if we plan on impacting the budget process. Yeah. What I would, what I would suggest is doing, like I said, a report, you know, where include that Allegra that we expected to hear back and we have not heard back. And part of that report, you know, that includes budget items. Part of that report includes policy items, you know. That's why I'm saying make it formal, I guess, in nature instead of a letter, just a letter. And this is, thank you for starting this because it has everything that we've been talking about, it has everything that we agreed upon. But I'm thinking now we need something more extensive. Yes, Deborah. So my question is, so do we know, because I do remember, right, with CSWG and the hide the ball that was played last time in terms of the budget and then they had said that we're gonna do better. But, you know, and I don't know, because I know sometimes I've had to leave early from the meetings. So do we know when our information needs to be in to be considered for the budget? What is the sense about that, you know? I mean, the sooner the better, you know, if we can pull it off to get our document in and then negotiate meeting time, as soon as possible, like this month to get our documents in, that would be good. But it's very powerful to actually attend the meeting and then the public can hear us and they, you know, some allies from the time council can hear from us will be good. Okay, so you're saying like get the information in to them, but still present, but at least, okay, yeah. So two part type of situation. If they can get our document this month, and I have no idea what their schedule looks like, I doubt that they will get us in in March, knowing how time council operates, if they can get us in in May, in April, that would be good. As long as it's before the, you know, budget deadline and also the election, because I do want us to push, you know, what we want if they really want us to vote for the debt override. Right, right. So what you're saying is that by the end of February, maybe beginning of March have this document or some type of document, go to town council. Before the end of the month of this month. Yeah, I got it. And then request that we be on the agenda for the April meeting. I mean, we can try for March to see if they will, you know, they have time and if they don't, we will take April. But they're in mind that we're also doing Chris stuff. Right. We'll have to sacrifice additional time for the next two months if that's okay with people. I know. I know, I know. All right, is everyone clear on that? Are we in agreement or there's some discussion, deliberation? So we're taking no action on this today. All right. I just want to add, we need to add the other information around the APD stuff, and then kind of bullet it a little bit more, like D said, add some of the research if we have it. We don't want to make it too complicated though too, like to add too much more time, but just shore it up a little bit. And then, yeah, then we can, because I think that the better we have it with our information, the more we heard, you know? And we can hyperlink items. They can, you know, go to, you know, how childcare helps government participation of residents, whatever, you know, there's that research about that. But, you know, I would just hyperlink stuff so they could go to it immediately. I'm willing to work on the APD stuff. I'll be in contact with Brianna to help guide me through the CSWG documents. Yeah. But thank you, Allegra and Pat, working on this. I so appreciate getting a start on it. So I was going to say it's 8.30, and do we have a few minutes to, you know, look at our schedule for March and April? OK, yes. But let's finish this up because I need to understand. So are we finished with that part? Yes. Right. OK. So listening session. So the listening session has been scheduled for the 25th of March between, we'll be there certainly hosting, but it's really a listening session for the community for Cress. Cress, as it was indicated, has been enacted for the last six months. It's actually been organized for about a year, you know, in terms of the larger organization of what Cress is. But yeah, for six months, they've had people out there. It Earl Miller responded and said that he can't meet in the morning. So he says he can't meet any time before 11. So it would have to be after 11. So we're looking more like a midday type of situation for that Saturday. So we will lose Deborah, right? Well, I mean, yeah, my kid has stocking, but what I'll do, I'll try to see if I can find someone to bring them and because we're going to be, it's an in-person thing. Yes. Yes. And so what are we thinking? Like what, one o'clock or something? Because I don't know if we want to do like 12 because we might be lunch or whatever unless we're going to do a lot of food, you know what I'm saying? Let's do two o'clock. Well, aren't we supposed to have refreshments or something? But what you said to us, no, people will expect lunch. Let's expect lunch. Yeah, well, could we ask if there's any money in DEI's budget to provide like hazels to the community? That'd be great. Let's have Jamaican food. Yeah, why not? Let's do that. Why not? OK, let's have lunch. Lunch provided. That would be great. Let's check and see if there's any budget. Yeah, yeah, no, but I think we'll check. So if if that's possible, we could have it at 12 noon. Yeah. Yeah. If not, I will come. I will come, it will not be hybrid for me. I will come. I will say that there's probably not going to be a budget for food for Human Rights Commission stuff. Like we either have to get it donated or try and source out through other type of funding, such as UMass or Amherst College or anything. Really? Whatever we have an event, there's never any town money for. For food, yeah. So we need to put that in our ass. OK. For the budget. All right. So if if not, then we're talking about a later event around two o'clock. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah, then we have to. Two o'clock will be perfect for me. OK, all right. So the 25th Saturday, block it out and we'll find out if it's either 12 noon or two o'clock. The other one, let's not waste our time just with 2 p.m. OK, 2 p.m. There we go. It's not going to happen. Let's not waste our time. So the other thing is that they are trying to figure out where to have it. Apparently there is an issue with the audio visual technical availability of that. So is it going to be at the high school? We thought if it's at the high school that that would automatically have the capability to be a hybrid event, Zoom and in person, but apparently not. So Jennifer Moystein even suggested that, well, let's see if one of the universities would be able to hold that space for us because they have a hybrid capability, oftentimes, in their large auditoriums. So we are looking for a space in order to have a hybrid event. Could we use the town room? So we could. That's the other place. Let's use it. Let's use the town room. There we go. So we'll go ahead and request the town room. So those were the two things that Jennifer Moystein presented to me. So I will get in touch with her about that to solidify this for the 25th. I'm sure we'll have to have moderation or whatever. So I guess Allegra or I or maybe one of you all would like to moderate this discussion. Hopefully we'll have two microphones, one for our several microphones for the people of Cress and then audience members. Any other concerns about that? So when we do the promotion, the flyer, just to be clear that we're not providing anything. Yeah, I got you. OK, OK. Great. So last thing, post update. That should be pretty short. I haven't heard anything from post about the complaint that was filed. I guess statewide it seems that there have been at least four more officers that have been decertified since our last meeting. So they are continuing to look at people, especially when there are criminal charges brought against police, whether on the job or in their own personal lives. Absolutely. So it's interesting because it looks like post is working, but it's the police departments that aren't fully cooperating. And so Amherst, like I said, that website where you can go and look at police violence and they have an interactive map having to do with violence and deaths due to police. You can search for Amherst, and you'll see that there's a deficit in terms of reporting having to do with police and complaints. So I think that's really problematic because it's like excuse the issues that we have in the town. It's like, well, oh, well, there's no complaints. Well, it's an ideal place where no one complaints about the police and all the interactions are awesome. That's not a fair representation or an accurate representation of what's going on. So it seems to me that they're under reporting. So this brings me back to thank you, Alecra, for the update. OK, so we're having listening session on March 27. I feel that we need to have a meeting in March in addition to the public gathering. I mean, how do we want to handle the update of the document we're sending to town council? Because of open meeting lower, we need to deliberate and approve the document, unless if you guys give the coaches power to just send it. Yeah, I mean, we need one meeting. We need two meetings and we need our regular meeting in March in addition to the public gathering. I know it's a lot. So unless somebody comes up with a different suggestion. No, I think if we're going to approve any type of thing that goes up to the town council, we're going to have to meet in order to do that. So much week of March, first week of March. March 1st is the first Wednesday and March 8th would be the second Wednesday. If we're trying to. Peace, if we're trying to get back onto the schedule where we're meeting the second Wednesday, if that still was agreeable for people, then that would be the eighth. That's HRC. Is that you guys? They're the third. Right, the third will be the 15th month. OK, Deb, can you do March 1st? I can do the first order. Wonderful. So let's. What about you? Frecky. Yes, give me a moment. Actually, let me confirm. OK, so the first you're saying, please. Yeah, let's get this, you know, the document out. Yeah, yes. Well, he was saying that Frecky was in the eighth though. Yeah, he was in the eighth. OK, so the eighth is going to be difficult for me unless I'm just talking to you in my car coming from another event. So I mean, I could do that. And a lot of. Can you can you call in because, you know, like, people can make it. Is that OK with you? I think the last meeting I was actually driving and I don't think it's anything that is comfortable. I think we could do the first. So the first does work. The first works as well for me. I would just. Thank you so much. Yeah, the first works for me, too. I just thought y'all were like said on the eighth. Yeah, the first. OK, OK. So would you be able to get something before the first is to kind of review like a draft? Like Jennifer did. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, OK. That's what I'm hoping. And then the other thing for the for the 25th, the listening session, just to kind of think about how we did it with CSWG. I remember like we had Jennifer, or we can have someone from the IA also facilitate and stuff. Because since we're kind of like the group and we're more like to listen, I mean, what we did is like we had Jennifer, I remember, facilitate. And then we had the co-chairs kind of do an intro, right, kind of set the stage as to why we had it. And then, you know, they can introduce Earl and stuff like that. And then we were more like the listening body. And then, of course, we engage with the audience at different points, but we were more kind of there to listen and stuff. Yeah, yeah. That's a great suggestion. Thank you. Jennifer is really good at doing stuff like that. I also like what Al did at the Griff's Circle too. He was the facilitator too. Yeah. But remember, he's going to be presenting. That's right. That's right. That's a thing, yeah. All right. So for March 25th, ask if Jen or Pam can be the facilitator. So OK. All right. So one more ask. Why we're still here? Do people have their calendar for April? Sorry. Do we have school vacations for parents or? Yeah, so April vacation is the week of the 17th. OK, so that's out. OK, what do we have before the vacation time for a meeting? That's the week after Easter. You're saying like the April 12th is the Wednesday. Yeah, we have the 5th or the 12th. It doesn't matter to me. The earlier, the better. Freaking. People available on the 5th of April. That works for me. Well, the 5th is its Passover might be. I don't know. OK, OK, OK. So what about what is the following week? The 12th. The 12th. The 12th. OK, Frankie, how is that for you? Looking into the future. The 12th seems good. OK. I love this group. OK. Easy to schedule. OK. Also good with me too. But what are we trying to go into the town council meeting? What are what are we asking that? Yeah, so yeah, let's do that. Can somebody call their schedule? Hold on, hold on. In April. Oh, good. You have it. Yeah, you're with me. In April, they're meeting on the 3rd and then on the 24th. OK. Let's push for 3rd and see how we go. Because 24 will be too late, sort of. It will give us only a week for the vote. You know, like, yeah, it'll be close to the override vote. So if they can give us, you know, April 3rd, that would be nice. Well, then maybe we should meet on the 5th. I mean, you know, I'm just saying folks might see Wednesday Passover as a religious holiday. I don't know. Oh, OK. But for the 3rd, I was talking about April 3rd. Monday. Oh, OK. For the time council meeting. OK, OK. So because we're already meeting in March. Yeah. Yeah, one month away, OK. OK. Yeah, I guess we can. So you want me to request for April 3rd? Yeah. OK. What do people think? Because we would be submitting the document after our march first. Exactly. Yes. And that would give them enough time. Yeah. OK. Yep, I guess so. So realistically, if OK, so April 3rd. Yeah, I think we should still meet April 12th, 12th. So debrief. OK. That works. OK. I have. We can just wait till May and figure out a date. Or do people want to do it now? Figure out a date for May. Do people have date for May? Or we can wait? I think we can wait. OK. So did we already schedule the 12th? Yes. Yeah. So I read that I'm meeting. Oh, OK. And then we're requesting Monday, April 3rd for the joint meeting with time council. What days are we meeting in March? You're going to have March 1st and what was the 2nd date? The 2nd date is the public gathering, March 25th, on a Saturday. Yep. Then I have that, never mind. OK. We know how long that event is going to be, 2 to 4. Yeah, we should do 2 to 4. Please, yeah. For the listening session? Yeah. Kick that from the grip circle, yeah. 2 to 4 is good. Anything else? We're just going to figure out, like, you know, how are we going to be advertising the town? Who's going to be putting out the thing about the listening session and putting out the word? Yeah, so Jennifer is supposed to be creating a flyer. OK. Yeah, so. And then if she can share it with us so that then we can share with our network. Yes. Put it on Facebook and all that stuff. Yeah. OK. OK. I just have a quick announcement. BBAA has a meeting, our monthly meeting, on Sunday, February 19th. If you know people who are who identify as Black, they're welcome to join the meeting to join. They can, you know, reach out to me. Great. OK. All right. So that brings us to, unless folks have other things to share or say, to public comment. There's no more public, so. We don't have any more public here. There we go. Any other topics? We've already done our meetings for the schedule. So we just I encourage folks to send in to Jennifer any agenda items for the next meeting. And D, I would just I guess maybe Jennifer can just send you a word document of what she sent out to us as a PDF so that you can then take what was already written and add to it. Right. Can she do that? Which the letter that Pat and I had combined. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I think you all need to ask her to do that and just send it to me. Yeah. And then I'll be able to edit it PDF, Microsoft, whatever y'all have. I'll be able to edit. OK. Perfect. OK. Anything else? All right. Awesome people. Thank you all for hanging in there and doing this work. It's a pleasure to be in your company as hard as it is. Thank you, D. You did a great job. Thank you, everyone. Do we have to officially adjourn? I guess no. So it's 8.43. And this meeting is adjourned. Good job, Dennis. Good night. Bye.