 yeah all right what's up everybody uh we're back with the after hours podcast we have a very special guest today our very own special super duper head moderator uh at at my investing club we have Joe Kelly so thank you Joe for coming on thank you guys for having me perfect so as you guys know we started this podcast we've had uh we've had alex on uh and we try to do it a little differently we tried to get more into the emotional side of trading not I mean we get into the journey of how they got here but we also want to hear about the struggles they went through emotionally family everything so that's kind of the basis of our podcast and we kind of want to keep along that same line so kind of we're getting into it so Joe if you want to take it away um what was your life like before you started trading like what were you doing what was work like family and all that so um I have no history in the stock market I have no history in finance or any of that um when I was 18 graduated high school I then went off to college for actually a classical guitar and it's a thing is that like a major it's a thing actually like you play in an orchestra or a symphony oh yeah and so um when I went down that I moved like three and a half hours north of where I lived in Oklahoma at the time and short period of time later I ended up moving back to my hometown because the cost was just way I don't come from any money whatsoever yeah and like whatsoever did not live in an ice town did not live in a big house did not have new cars nothing um and it was with me and my mom and so whenever um I moved back I decided well I'll just do two years at the community college because everything at that community college like we were in a big small town if that makes sense so basically I made sure that everything you bought at that school would transfer to all the universities that were around and so you could go there get all of your basics and you didn't have to pay out the ass yeah fortunately I was able to go and get um a full ride scholarship for performing arts um and so I didn't have to pay anything to get that done to get all that done and so time goes by uh I graduate that and I go to university Arkansas and I've entirely changed majors in that time oh wow harry all of your messages finally I'm just now I'm getting this it's a it's a canadian bullshit sir is a canadian dialogue finally coming through finally fucking sucks jesus anyway so um so I went to university Arkansas and while I was at the community college I changed majors I did not continue performing arts I just played uh and performed while I was there to pay for everything else but I was taking other courses like physics and chemistry and I mean and I was actually going to specialize in pharmaceuticals and organic chemistry because I always liked math because it's definitive and you know it's yeah it's black and white there's only one answer that's right I always failed now when I do math when I do math it's all fucked up and that's why I always liked math though is because it's either you're right or you're wrong there's no like dude it made me so mad in like English classes reading speech all that other stuff you know when there was like that you could say an answer and then and then the teacher or the professor would be like well you know there's another interpretation of that situation and I'd be like fuck you know there's no interpretation there is no different interpretation that is the interpretation that's what it says and so I gravitated to math because it's one final answer and so I went and continued in electrical engineering after the chemistry thing because I took organic chemistry and nearly failed had that was the only cause I had a drug out of there was one of those moments where the professor came to me and goes hey look you know you're one of the five or six people that are probably gonna have to stop this terms before we take the midterms because if you go past the midterms you got to stick with it and whatever you get is your grade is your grade and he goes probably would recommend not continuing that was nice that was honest yeah I was like Dr. Curtis I'll never forget him that's awesome and uh and he goes probably wouldn't continue this because you're not gonna pass this class you have to retake it it won't look good uh and I'm like okay thanks for that and so I left and I went to talk to the counselor and she was like look these are what your credits transfer for you can either continue in this path or go with engineering and I was like well since I've already gone this far let's just go with engineering then and so they roll me in all these other classes with engineering in the next semester and everything goes through that and so I ended up moving to Texas at that point um and you're single right you don't you don't know you're you're I was getting a girl at the time but I moved to Texas because I wanted to move to Texas okay yeah she was gonna come along she was gonna come along and but if she wasn't doing whatever it was and so um I'm going to Dallas because that's where all of my family is I'm going to Dallas and so I go to Dallas I get a job working at a guitar center and uh just to pay my way there exactly and and um then I'm postponing going back to school okay because if I could live in Texas for a year I can then become a Texas resident because I'm not Texas born I can become a Texas resident in a year and then in a year I can get in-state tuition I don't have to pay out of state tuition costs they have that in here here Harry I don't know if they do that in Canada but all right do it a little bit but school's free there but here in the US we have to pay for this shit were you still performing at this is random were you still performing in a show is nothing no like stripping nothing no I stripped on the side yeah it's passive income I guess it's active income that's more active income than anything but so I um I'm I'm working at a guitar center I'm postponing like going back to school because I don't want to pay 40 grand I'd rather pay 15 because I was gonna have to get loans at that point like I I couldn't get any more full rides I couldn't get any more this I could it wasn't available at that time to me so I I wasn't you know academically excelled enough then all these other kids that were just coming out of it I couldn't get it I couldn't get it so uh I basically postpone it and then in the meantime I end up leaving guitar center to go work for Ford and I just started selling cars because I don't know at this point you're 20 I'm 20 at this point yeah 20 almost 21 and within like a month I'm 21 and so we'll just say 21 and so once that's once that starts I go full time working with Ford and I continue in that and oh my god I made more money than I'd ever seen in my entire life I I had never made six figures in my life ever ever no one in my family did no besides like my aunt that lives in Texas but yeah nobody back in all ever saw that kind of income nobody it was nothing nobody'd ever seen it I never thought I could do that and so all I did was just go out and work and so I ended up being fortunate enough to meet a general manager that ran the store that kind of took me under his wing because he liked my work ethic and um he trained me all the way through up to upper management and in two years I was I was leading my own teams I was leading my own sales teams that were literally people that were twice my age that I was telling them how to do how to do this went to say 23 at this point yeah 23 yeah coaching you know 40 50 60 year old people and went through all that stuff and then end up in sales management and then I went to finance and then I started moving around I started going to different locations um and working in those different locations and it was dude it was just like every year every two years I was moving yeah yeah and so in that interim time when I was 23 or so yeah 23 24 I meet my now wife and then we get engaged and then we get married we have a kid and then we have another kid and in that period of time of having two kids we've moved three states already in the period of marriage first kid pregnancy of next kid birth of next kid like it was hell it was it was hell asius it was like we were here we were there we were here we were there so we did you enjoy did you enjoy working in the car industry like during that time like was there a period where like you thought that was the best job ever you like fucking loved it or was it always kind of absolutely it and it will be something I eventually go back to not working in that is like in a management sense but it will be something I eventually invest in really because I have people in upper management that have connections with those that can because if you have an x amount of funds you can become a silent partner in one of these stores I swear to you there is nothing that prints money more than maybe like drugs the sale of drugs and cocaine than a car dealership or the fed yes there is nothing that prints more money than a car dealer the people understand the amount of capital that flows through those places on a daily basis it is in sane amounts of money and it they literally just print money if it has nothing to do with the market just that alone automobile industry automobile sales that's what I would tell anybody to put their money in and interesting if they can because you have to be approved by the motor company you know whether it's Kia Chevy Toyota Ford Dodge whoever it is if you can actually be a part of that so you can't so there's a long there's a long process as to whether you can own one of their stores or run one of their locations and so on and so forth anyway so I knew people that did that and I wanted to continue doing that but I started doing 12 14 16 hour days and working six seven days a week and eventually I got to this point where I was like I need to and I'll tell you what sparked it is I got a really big bonus check one time more money and I've ever seen in a single check ever and because we'd hit all of our sales targets and all this stuff and it was the motor company paid out big the dealer paid out big and it was like we were all like holy it was it was great and because I didn't know what stock trading was at that point and so I got this check and I'm just holding it and I'm like what do I do with this dude I had no savings everything I ever made I spent it new cars new clothes designer clothes designer everything it it was you know if we rented in houses we didn't buy any homes we didn't buy any homes at that point because we moved so much it was yeah I can't can't buy anything so I'm just renting the nicest houses that I can absolutely I'm like maxing out my income in like how much house can I get with the nicest house to the nicest neighborhood dude because I come from nothing yeah and so I was like I'm gonna live in it and and so it was it's all I wasn't a saver at all yeah so whatever was her mom like amazed at this like just seeing places you live and shit like that oh absolutely yeah absolutely she'd come over and she'd be like I'm so proud of you I'm so proud of you for all the work that you done and I went hey mom I want to learn stock trading what yeah and so uh and anyway so long all that goes through and I get the big bonus check and I'm in Kansas at this time and uh and I'm looking at it I'm like what do I even do with this what do I even do with this amount of money I've never saved any money but I was make I was making to a point where I was like I can't just blow this I've got kids now you gotta think about this think long term uh and so I was like how do I grow this how to turn 20 000 into 20 million like yeah and the typical person popped up yeah how to turn how to how to make a million or whatever it is and was he in a blue Lamborghini was that what got you oh man what I live where yeah I was and it was that first like stock that went from two to 20 in a matter of minute and keep in mind there was still some hot OTC plays in this time yeah and so it was still OTCs it wasn't all listed it was still some it was still some listed but when I started it was still good OTC plays not you know like not 2013 when you had like awesome penny stocks that was like 2015 right yeah yeah and and so no oh shit it's 2020 that would have been 2014 so I was only one year from missing fanny may I was one year let's be honest you would have missed it that we all would have I would have missed it I wouldn't have known what to do I would have I would have fucking bought the top and sold the bottom I would have decided I mean I would bow would have been selling all of my orders I've been like buy it and he's like sure that would have been me I would have been there I would have been filling into your positions I would have been the night market maker filing a lawsuit he took my pills yeah and so I I missed it by a year and so I start learning I take that program that that you signed up for and dude I spent because again I'm not a saver here we are I I bought everyone's content I bought everyone's service I bought everyone's everything because I knew nobody that knew how to trade I knew nobody that had anybody in any interest in the market I had nobody to look to I had nobody to talk to and nothing there's mark on my screen it's like on my face I was like get that off to that no how are you finding out about these people with you because you did you have twitter at this point or were you just online yeah I didn't know what it was a thing I didn't know what it was a thing I didn't I just I knew what I knew what twitter was because obviously because you know there's no censorship there and you can be like well that girl posted what and that's about all g twitter was great yeah there was some serious there was some serious value yeah and so it was uh dude I just started with nothing knowing nothing following people following trades my I remember my first ever trade I got the text message alert to take this trade and I was like yeah I'm gonna be a millionaire yeah and like I took it made $40 thought I was the hottest shit in the world wait while we're on this text message thing so one time I was cutting hair and my phone was sitting on the counter because at this point same thing for me I was learning to trade I get a text alert to buy this like stock x y and z I leave my client is the dumbest shit I've ever done I leave my client I run in the back on my laptop I buy this stock I bought a thousand shares of a $2 over here like this he's like half his shape half standing up and James like I was actually doing a I remember like yesterday he was doing a I was doing a beard trip half of his beard was cutting I'm like dude sorry I gotta buy this stock I'm being told to do this but a thousand shares of like a $2 stock and it tanked 50 cents instantly and I'm like and then I just waddle back to this guy's chair and I'm like just fucking miserable and he wants to talk about it now did you make money how's it going where's the net shut up just shut up shut up or I'm gonna cut you like Edward scissor hands yeah so how did you at this point did you tell your wife she's your wife at this point so do you tell her anything or are you just like kind of like watching porn like secretly doing this no she knew yeah no we had a basement we had a bait so in Kansas in Kansas they don't build two story houses unless you're a millionaire they instead they put the second level in the floor because all the tornadoes so you get a basement instead yeah and so um funny fact there are actually more tornadoes in Texas in Dallas area than there is in Kansas all put together have you had a bunch this year or not even I don't know yeah I was too focused on fucking not trying to die when I went to Home Depot from somebody coughing in my mouth like a tornado behind you yeah I'm like not concerned not concerned I'm gonna need you to stop that tornado this guy over here sneezed they're gonna need you to get up and leave the man it was I have no idea I have no idea but all I know is that when we were in Kansas there was like a bunch of tornadoes in Dallas and they were like in some some service some news service out there somewhere it was like statistically there are more tornadoes in Texas than there are in Kansas and I was like oh shit look at that so naturally you moved to Dallas I mean yeah so naturally I'm like well fuck this there's not enough danger here let's go back to Texas and it's like I was again I was gonna live where the Wizard of Oz was and that's exactly what I was thinking this whole time that's all Canadians know about the U.S. and Kansas they're like that's all they know about Kansas yeah so she knew everything you know because I was in I was in that guy's course right I don't know if I should name drop in that's probably not I'm talking probably not okay everybody knows who you know yeah we all know he's got a nice little curly yeah I got nothing against it I got nothing against it I learned a metric fuck done and met a lot of people and got introduced to like a group like a proud of people that I would have never been able to associate with anywhere else yeah yeah and wouldn't traded it for anything I I would do I would do everything the exact same every single every single time I think about this yeah but um oh yeah so anyway the basement thing that's where my office was was you know in there it's like dude it's it's not like concrete floors it's like fully done basements you know really nice design to everything it's like man cave area so I just made that entire thing like an office and a music studio and all of this stuff I had and so it it was uh that's where I just did all the studying and dude I would be down there until uh like 4 a.m. and then I would have to get up at 7 a.m. to be at work at 8 a.m. and I would just be down there watching videos reading articles reading reading reading studying so dude I was literally addicted to it I was addicted to it and so so when people talk about you know I work 12 I work 14 I work 16 hours a day I don't have time to do this I'm like no you do you just don't fuck yeah I want it enough yeah you don't want it enough and it's true I mean how much do how much how many times do we say that like especially in chat right it's like if you want to do this bad enough like you're gonna fucking like that not to be gross I remember times I was sitting on the fucking toilet watching videos and shit because I'm like I can't stop watching this shit like yeah literally what Harry oh I just said you know if you don't put in the work someone else is going to for you someone else will take your spot I know oh yeah everyone loves that like expression like oh the market is you versus yourself but it's like the market is also you versus like millions of Chinese kid that's doing it way harder than you are yeah yeah but I mean it's true you know so there's also an element where it's like kind of a it's a zero-sum game where like you know it is like you versus someone else on the other side of the screen and if someone else is harder they're gonna take your money you know yeah I find it funny too like people say there's not enough hours in the day but it's like but technically if you bust your ass for even a year I know that's a short timeframe but even a year like you might be working yourself hard like every day and then studying this it's like but on the back end you could have the rest of your life with working barely anything you know so it's like it's kind of tough but it's like you know you get home from work fucking study you know it's I don't know how you do it with kids and shit I mean that must have been exhausting I mean I I don't have kids and I'm tired of kids I don't I don't know how to fucking do it for one you have to have a supportive spouse I will say that you can't do it like if I'm not gonna advise in certain areas but I mean if your wife's a bitch or if your husband's a dickhead you need to fucking divorce them I'm just gonna say it like that if they don't support if they don't support any endeavor that you go with I don't care how crazy it sounds I don't care if you think that you're gonna be able to fucking make a million selling newspapers door to door I don't care your spouse has to believe in you exactly that is crucial if they don't why the fuck are you married to them especially learning this yeah I mean I think I mean the downs I mean I'm sure we'll get into yours of course I the downs of trading that I have like first started I I mean emotional grumpy I can think of every emotion I ever had like if you don't have a spouse that's not gonna be like kind of understanding then I wouldn't say even don't either don't start or divorce them if this is what you want to do because there's no way I mean no what is that good maybe stay yeah but yeah that's I don't know how a lot of fish and sea so yeah yeah I mean for the females that have that have husbands that don't support this birds up yeah I mean if I do for the men that have women that don't support it birds up oh I had a wife that traded out I can't always think about this like it would be cool to have a wife that would trade but if I ever saw that she had a bit like a better P&L than me I would probably freak out I'd be like no my wife actually started like watching all the content that I was because she wanted to understand what I was watching yeah what I was trying to do and dude so I applaud the people that have the relationships that that you know their spouse is that you know the computer next and they've set up two stations husbands here wife's here or whatever it is vice versa however it is or you know in this day and age you're here and your partner's here yeah I'm not judging just gotta it's not always man and wife man not all neolithic like that I don't know how the fuck they do it I mean I don't know I just know my girlfriend that I know if she was next to be training it would be a fucking shit show I don't know I just can't I can't see it that you can do it because yeah that's true I don't know if she was there and when you couldn't do it you know I don't know if she was there in that time to see what the struggles were yeah that that's a big part for sure it's a big part you know having someone that was there during what did you say say it again that's a big what I said that's a big part part part we're like a PRT part oh okay part because you know like I mean I don't know about well probably not you guys maybe but like with my experience like after the fact like it's mostly for like not the struggles it's mostly for like oh well you have like this or you have that or I've heard you made money like oh I'm down to be your girlfriend you know and I wasn't at that point yeah I met my wife it was I me and a buddy used to have a funny thing and we called it the year to date clothes and it was what we used to pick up chicks at the bar yeah and if it was ever that and it works bro I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie to you it works and for the women it'll work for you too just tell for all the successful women out there just tell the man that you want how much money you make a year sign sign they'll sign up right away guaranteed guaranteed the year to date clothes to get with and be like hey I make 125 a year what's up done I don't care if you look like Mrs Shrek it doesn't matter it doesn't matter it doesn't matter it was and we saw we always used to joke about that we always used to say oh did you ask her out no I mean I didn't do it oh you should have hit her with the year to date clothes just be like here's my gross year to date right there we'd always mess around with each other and be like you take a paste up to the bar what'd you do and so it was yeah I mean that's how I showed my wife that I was successful at that point in my life it was cars house clothes yeah all that shit I thought it was materialistic see that's where I was wrong was I thought things were materialistic like you need to show material items I would literally kill to just show her like a big number in my bank account instead of having all that extra shit be like look I look like I'm poor I look like I'm poor but see this see that I would have loved to done that nope I chose the other route goodbye every Joe we used to have this conversation all the time we was talking the phone was that if we had all the money we spent on fucking clothes on like just stupid stupidity stupid shit I like you how much more money you'd have in your bank account you wouldn't even it's just yeah and a lot of that shit didn't matter I've worn one time paid a hundred bucks for each of them yep I would have put myself over PDT in like a day dude yeah I would have just stopped that I would have been over PDT in no time I was under PDT oh really yep I actually didn't know that I always thought you just funded yourself like right away I just split my accounts because I needed more day trades yeah oh yeah that's right I had like I had 555 and then three and it was like and so I would just fucking rotate yeah yeah like my my cell cell fucked up my my my next account stuck now they're hitting you up like saying like put more money in now over PDT so four accounts all by blue so at this yeah so the fourth one was the saving grace holy shit so at this point you were just losing money right you're taking the courses you're studying your ass off yep but every time you weren't making I'm guessing you weren't making a dollar no right no so now if I made a hundred bucks like oh my god I was fucking it's static yeah like the first time I ever made 40 was at first trade and I was hooked and then from there on out losses dude it's everybody yeah I bought drives okay before it went to a fucking 120 all right sold overnight this is my second profit ever so the first time I ever made a profit was 40 bucks and then just after that is lost lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots and then the second profit I ever made was I bought drives held it I bought it into the clothes because it was it closed strong as shit and this was the time when OTC still when they closed strong they had like an 85 percent odds that they would gap up the next morning and you could sell into that morning gap and capture that quick volatility and then jump out and so I was trading with IB because they had the really good executions for OTCs and so I bought drives at four and sold it the next morning made like a dollar 20 yep thought I was fucking King Kong yeah thought I dude oh my god did it with 500 shares I was like wow this is wow I was like whoa and then I had a I had to go to Manhattan Kansas which is where Kansas State University is yep if I ever had to recommend a place to live in Kansas that would be where I lived it's fucking cool because the entire city or the entire town revolves around the university and so it's always like young life but it dude it's so awesome like the streets are all like these shops and shit little bars and everything like that but it's also set back in like a forest and so it's all trees and so in the fall dude it looks awesome it looks so cool but yeah Manhattan Kansas if you want to if you ever want to go and party your fucking balls off go there during like all times dude yes for real I'm not joking you with you it is you would never think you would have fun in a Manhattan in Kansas yeah and so anyway I had to go there for training for work training the next day that was the day that drives ran to 120 and I literally I took my this is how addicted I was bro this is how addicted I was to the market I took my laptop with me I took my laptop with me and I had it connected to my phones wi-fi and I had it sitting on the dash of my truck and I was watching the stock market while I'm driving dude it's Kansas roads it's all fucking straight doing 70 mile an hour like what are you gonna get what are you gonna hit barbed wire fence all right you're fine I mean you what are you gonna run into the fence and then just stop in the field okay we're good if I crash I crash I'm not really gonna crash I'll just turn around and get back on the road and so after seeing dries you probably want to crash bro oh my god I so I sold it I sold it in the gap up and I was like hell yeah and then it closes like it fucking like 10 or 20 that day yeah and I was like great thanks for that and so I start doing the math in my head you know what what we all do fuck if I would have held that 500 shares oh my god how much would I be up Jesus wow whoa and then and then I go to sleep and then you know I wasn't able to be there for the market open because I was having to get ready and get on the road and shit I get on the road I open the laptop dries is it like 60 at this point 50 60 and I just remember logging in and looking at it and be like what yeah so that was um that was my first introduction to to like that was my first real life like you got it you understand you can supernova dries was my first was my first like welcome to small caps and I was like whoa yeah and what type of something what type of setups were you like trading back then like was it like those time get the shares to short because everybody had to go with fucking ib you know because you didn't have any any big thighs like sure trader which ever was notorious like hi welcome to sure trader we're gonna fuck you and I just want you to know that up front oh thanks perfect fantastic I'll take two I'll take two I would trade there and so I didn't want to trade there because I was like no I'm not going to do this I'm not going to pay x amount of money every time I place a fucking trade and this amount of money per month and this amount and dude I was like no no no no no no and so I was just trading like I had three interactive brokers accounts under different names and that one of which was a venom trading account actually before venom was ever popular it was and so it was venom which traded through ib and I had an ib account and this was the time when if you were under the age of 26 you could open an ib account with three grand and so they used to have that and so like I was I opened it and then and then I had a venom trading account and then I had another ib account that I opened under my wife's name and then I had an e-trade account and so I had all three ib and then e-trade and that was it but I couldn't get the shares to short so I couldn't short because I'll just dip buying dip buying overnight yeah buy break out dip buy I would that was my biggest thing is they were like buy the dip I'm like well what fucking dip do I buy they all dip they all dip when do I buy this fucking dip and so is that dip buy what is that is that meme of the guy buying the dip and it just keeps dipping down and that was like every time he like turns to his journal and he's like dear journal I lost everything again that is literally my favorite meme ever that was me every morning I would just like buy a dip and just keep dipping and then just just turn around like fuck me fuck me so oh I forget now to be honest okay so it was what setups did I trade right was that the question yeah like so it's just dip buy like the OTC I guess it was like panic something I loved the OTC panics that was like the only thing I was consistent at um I tried to get on that like OTC breakout stuff man when you could get one oh it was good but when you were wrong you were you just got stuck and then you couldn't get out until way lower yeah yeah so what you got stuffed oh yes all the time yeah and so I Harry did you even do OTC sorry did you were you ever in OTCs or any of that I actually started but shorting oh I know I know and that's where that's where the whole sniper trader came from sniper trader because he was he was he was uh because I remember this because I was in another service and that's where I met the bear actually yeah and I met the bear too yeah like we may have all three been in the same place I didn't meet you there no I know what you're talking about but yeah you know where I'm talking about though I ended up meeting everyone through Twitter I had never oh yeah I had never been on any type of service I said my my perspective was like I want to do this all myself I'm not going to listen to anyone I like I don't believe in all this shit I just want to try it out myself and um like and then I ended up meeting the bear a lot of people who we kind of had like similar trading styles and I just kind of I don't know how but like I just went straight kind of into into like Twitter I ended up meeting a bunch of people on Twitter getting in a bunch of discord groups like that and people would share I didn't even know what discord was yeah I remember sending Alex a DM because I saw him post like a chat room and I was like hey what platform is that hey what broker do you use you never responded just like fuck this dude I fucked with him one time and I sent it I sent him at screenshot I was like hey remember me yeah and this was like after MIC started yeah because that was our last DM was me asking him what that what is that platform dude I'm not a gamer I'm not a gamer either so I didn't know what discord was I didn't know what any of that was yeah and yeah so I just met people through these chat rooms yeah and I just I just heard uh Brian Lee's chat with traders and it's crazy he's talking about our old discord room with the bear Brian Lee a couple other guys and I mean every day it's a funnel and like this is like long before MIC like there wasn't really anything like and so we would just all talk to each other I was in first year university when this was kind of going on and I thought it was so cool like man I'm actually in a chat room with other people who like actually know how to trade and actually fucking put the work in and actually you know I didn't I didn't I I didn't know they existed I didn't know people were like this most of the people on Twitter I know I followed like bow I know I followed Alex like the generic like almost that the algorithm picks up where you're like okay you follow these people and yeah but I mean it was crazy and so like I learned a lot from those guys as well with shorting and then um after a while uh shorting just was getting like really really expensive and that's when I switched along and all that stuff but um I mean it it's crazy like we've all had like different journeys and stuff like that and um you know also like Brian Lee it's crazy a lot of people out of that discord chat became successful you know and so I mean that was what I thought was crazy is that like you know you look at Brian Lee even though like I mean he wasn't in like MIC or anything like that or maybe he was I'm not really sure but like you look at Brian Lee the bear a couple other guys that were in there they all became successful and I think it was because you know me bear we were all putting in the work every single day just like I'm hearing you just like you know you hear James and a lot of other successful successful traders is that you know we were all obsessed we were willing to put in the time the work the effort that we were willing to endure the mental pain the goddamn mental pain that comes with it that no one talks about anymore you know that is friggin tough and hard and you know it's it's unbelievable to me to just like you know just to be kind of also where I am as well to like even think about where I came from because it's crazy when you look back and even think about it you know but I guess my point is that like you know you put in the work and and you just keep going and that's kind of what we did and that was kind of my journey as well a lot of just putting in the work every single day you know yeah that's what's cool about Joe I mean that's what's cool about you man is like you have put in the work and like you have a similar story to a lot of people because everybody I think that gets into trading has that but there's always that underlying difference of like you were working you had a family you had all this and I mean at at this point in your career you were just bouncing room to room right and you weren't finding consistency so what was it for you that took you from like a I like need to figure this out now and like what changed for you like was there a person you met was it joining a group MIC or something like that like what was that next step for you to get out of the the guessing phase and the gambling phase kind of thing and weren't even profitable before MIC and all that stuff I was yep and that was where so what turned me profitable was day trading actually dug me in a hole because I kept trying to long everything and I because I couldn't get the shares to short yeah so I was like well let me buy it which is the worst fucking decision oh I can't short it well let me try to find a long yeah mm-hmm and so I signed up to this like swing trading service again because I don't know it yeah let me learn from somebody that does yep that actually paid off yeah and I actually learned a lot from that swing trading service and that took me out of the red like I think it was like I was like 10k in the red and because you know I'd make some and I'd lose some and I'd make some and I'd lose some and then at this point this was like my all-time low is I was like 10k in the red and I hadn't made it was just like my p&l curve was like and it was like here right here is where everything changed and then it just went uh and then and I was still in I was still in another chat room too where I was using like their adopted things there this was not MIC this was before MIC too and so and this was actually before I ever met or I was ever in that room where Harry met the bear and we all were talking amongst each other it was all in that uh it was before that time and so I finally got consistent by swing trading and I swing traded from the long side and I would find these like super beaten down stocks that you know weren't pennies and um that had a history of spiking and I would buy them when they were like heavily beaten down and just wait like how much lower can this thing go right it was pretty much that it was like okay it has a history of doing press releases at this time and has a history of doing this has a history doing this let me long it and so I'd buy it and I just spread it out I'd pick like my top four or five and I'd buy them and then I would just wait and then like I'd get offered on at times and things like I mean that was just you know that's small gaps naturally when you're holding long on a small cap you're probably gonna get offered into like it's yeah you're asking for it and so I always had this thing like don't buy anything above five bucks because they had a tendency to offer and so I was like don't buy anything above five bucks they have a tendency to offer so okay I'm not going to do that I'm not going to hold anything over five dollars that you know looks beaten down because they'll still offer and because they're also not you don't want to buy anything under a dollar either because they could do it first place so dude I was like I was like one to five yeah like this tight little range I was like I'm gonna buy those and my sweet spot was like two to three bucks if I could find something that was beaten down like two to three bucks I was like okay they in this at this point I had learned enough fundamentals to understand MVPHS rules and things like that to where I knew they couldn't offer on me anymore and so I'd buy them when they're stupid beaten down I know they can't offer on me until they run it up and so I would just buy in the first day it gaps sell it I wouldn't even hold to see how far it would go I would just sell the gap as soon as it got the gap I'd sell the gap and that was what got me consistent and it works now like that definitely works yeah I know it still works now there are people who do that right now oh for sure it works yeah it works people are gonna be the rules they understand the rules of the game and how it is played and they they do that on the side yep and so it was it was more passive income because I didn't have to be there every day and so now that I'm in large caps dude and I'm going back to swing trading dude I'm just going back to my roots to what like feels comfortable yeah and and so in small caps I started short selling because I finally made enough money to get an account over PDT and I could finally go get a broker that had the share it's the short once that started I mean it was just I was hooked from there I was hooked and but dude the still the most consistency I ever found was in was in buying those funny seriously beaten down plays not because I couldn't do these other like you know like the gap and craps it was my that was my thing was gap and craps like I knew everything to know about the performance of a gap you're such a data guy how they work I knew how they worked and yeah and how the algos would run them and when to avoid them until RKD came around or what was it arcade arcade arcade arcade arcade yeah yes yes fuck you Harry right here I know what you did to me right there yeah and so me and James were on the phone in the RKDA trade he was like yeah I covered I'm like what he's like standing in the kitchen making a coffee and I'm still over here I'm like holy fuck this just limited up and I'm stuck from where he's like really oh man I covered a minute ago tell me you saw something and maybe made you want to come I was like Barbie fucking moustache and I was driving along and you're like you're still in that was the day I knew I lost you to large gaps I knew you were done dude seriously when RKDA happened I was like I'm tired of this shit yeah I'm tired of this because I remember I remember that whole situation going into that because you guys were you guys were blessed so much with there everything was anything just gap and fade gap and fade I remember and I remember the same stocks like every single day where they would gap up and just instantly wash out out of the open I think there was only one that had recovered from a gap and that was why you ma that had washed out open the same day that DPW was running I have like a really photographic memory so the same day the DPW was running why you ma also washed out as well and I just remember just that was like kind of the only one like there wasn't a lot running like things were just being pumped out of the blue it was really a liquid at that time that summer was very very slow and I yeah I remember that that most of them would just end up fading all day and then RKDA had that super low flow I don't know if they did a reverse split if the stock was just super low it was it was during the reverse split runners time is RKDA fucking yeah there was that whole list of them that just so low it was going at the time like everything was just killing us dude I was back then Harry I was done trading by nine like Joe was on the phone and all those ones yeah yeah dude we used to I used to wake up early and we'd been Joe and the other guy would trade on the phone and like we'd be done I would I would be short at like 7 a.m. would hold and then by like 9 o'clock everything was toast those are the I mean that's the easiest trading has ever been in my career and then after RKDA is when everything actually changed that's when that that pre-market shit just like that's when it started it hurts that was like small caps have never been the same since RKDA in my opinion like that move was what put zombies on the map oh my god that move what because what it did RKDA broke the death line and then it reclaimed it and then it did and then it just hung there until right at 10 30 and then all of a sudden boom yeah and I was like whoa hold what the and so dude I was that whole thing I was sizing into that because it had been that I remember that was my entire strategy was was gap and fade that was it I'd short him in the morning and I'd put orders and I would leave and because they just when they zombied it was just like that's not enough you know yeah it was like it was really the reason that they were zombying was I think that all the people who had lost money in the morning just started buying together again like a band of misfits and then probably did I oh did I was so it was when that happened man that was finally when I was like yeah all right I'm I gotta find something else to do and then and then and then Brian Rivera or trader tax CPA me and him and met at a meetup in Dallas and we just kind of buddied up and just started chatting because he did the same thing I did in small caps he shorted the gaps waited from the fade and he'd swing it too and and so me and him were like dude that's hey we do the same thing and that's how I became friends with the bears because that's the bear's favorite setup yeah but the bear was the bear would short him at like 6 a.m. and he'd have all these pre-market fucking top ticks and then it would just and then and I was like and I thought trading was so easy back then like did I got my account over PDT because I'd wake up it was same thing it was like 7 a.m. I just short a random ass stock and it would be here oh my all the way down this is all you had to do was just let it run yeah I love life I'd make like a dollar a share I'm like this is so easy yeah even 10 10 percent of traders make it so I mean at this point so you've been making money for some time right and like you got into small caps and he's got in the shorting and all that and you had like I remember like you were very processed and data oriented in small caps yeah and you had been doing well and you were in MIC obviously at this point you were that had moderated too what was it was it really RKDA or like what kind of pushed you to the point of like all right I need to transition now myself into like large caps and what was it was it just the fact of like the frustration like I mean I know I want to I like hearing it but like what was it for you that that got you there so it was that summer that it was just it was really dry there was nothing to play even long side or short side I don't like trading pre-market it's not my favorite place to be and so I don't like doing that and then so it was okay I have to trade pre-market I have to wake up at 4 a.m my time to get ready for or no sorry 3 a.m my time to get ready for this to get ready to do this and I had to be there it was I had to wake up at 3 a.m in my time 3 a.m my time and be there for the entire market pre-market to get the boroughs that were cheap enough or because they would just they would come and then they'd run out and it'd be like and so you couldn't get the shares to short it would do it it was just it was just stagnant and all the profits after you've accumulated all up I would always end up giving back like 30 or 40 percent in locates yeah and it wouldn't it wasn't commissions or anything because that was at the point where I'd learned how to do fantasy orders and I didn't have any problems with commissions or I got all the ECN rebates and all that stuff I didn't have problems with that I had problems with the locates and and so it's crazier now than it was back then oh I know I know and so I got so sick and tired of fighting that I was like I you know I've got a wife I got two kids she works she does her own thing I you know the kids are here with me in the mornings and then I'm doing this and I'm trying to short these fucking small caps that I got to wake up at 4am to get these fucking boroughs because they always run out is he's son of a bitch and brokers never do with it and then it was dude it was just a and then I went okay how much do I have to pay for the stupid platform every month how much I have to pay for a scanner now I need a scanner because I hate looking I hate looking at the chat room and waiting for somebody to post a scanner because by that time the borrow was gone because it would be like okay what's popping oh well fuck now that all the boroughs are gone yay and then and so I wanted to see it so I had to pay for a scanner I had to pay for a news service because I wanted to make sure that I had the news I was like I want to do all this on my own I want to do that I want to do this and so I had to have all these things and basically it was like at that time and then I met Brian and been talking to him and and it was like and he posted like one chart of like Tesla or something like that where he'd longed it at four in the options and sold it at 17 and it was like intraday intraday he bought it at four and sold it at 17 and I was like are you telling me I can trade Tesla and make 300 percent how the fuck do you do that and Brian's a low-key low-key and Brian is a fucking good trader yeah and so I was like how and he goes it was just it was that it was that moment he was like I'll show you and I was like I'll listen and yeah and and that was it man I because it was like can I apply the same MIC process in large caps absolutely does this work better in large caps absolutely can I make the same percent gains that I can in small caps and in large caps absolutely okay well fuck I'm sold tell me no more and then they announced zero commission I was like oh my god yeah oh yeah and so it was like platform I can pay what in commissions I get dude literally I put 30 percent back in my bottom line immediately immediately by going to large caps yeah immediately and so it was like that I was like okay at the end of the year I make X amount of money and instead of you know I give away 30 percent to fucking locates I give away 40 percent to the government I keep 30 percent that's all you're telling me all I have to do is switch from small caps to large caps and I keep another 30 percent and so the government takes 40 and I keep 60 I'm listening it's funny too sold it's funny too because as long as I'm we've all known each other now it's like I think large caps fits your personality so much more because you are so systematic and like data driven and like you have you like it's funny like I consider you to follow the MIC process to a T you set your lines you set your orders and that's that's fucking it you just do that and I feel like in large caps it actually works better than in small caps and like it works for small caps of course but in large caps it's like lined to a T but you know it it's I love it and now so you've been with MIC for what the whole time right since day one literally the day I still have the receipt from the day day one the day one subscription yeah there was like a hundred of us that first day I remember that person like was fucking yesterday yeah but how if you could have anyway not even just making money trading wise how has MIC impacted your life positively like what has it done for your life or negatively but how has it impacted your life but what has it really done for you um well so it it eventually gave me a platform to teach um because again I've watched everyone's content out there I've watched every single person's content except for one guy and he pronounces the word dollars like dollars dollars dollars and I've never watched a single thing that that person teaches because I know it's fake as fuck and so I I will never do it I will not that's the only content of anybody out there that I have never watched I wouldn't even I wouldn't I wouldn't even watch if somebody gave me that content to be like here you want to watch this just to see what it's about no I'll fucking I'll take 16 hours of my life back and go do something else yeah I'd rather go haul trash for a fucking living than watch that shit like I it's oh um it was so I finally got the platform to teach but I also m-i-c was was uh it was community it was it was the fact that I can finally freely talk in a chat room without the head dude being like excuse me that's meant for this place excuse me we don't talk like that in here excuse me only stocks and because dude if you if you want to talk about like dude we're always posting food pictures if you want to talk about fucking food recipes if you want to talk about recipes I'll fucking talk about recipes and somebody else will talk about recipes and you can always find somebody online you can always find somebody in the middle of the fucking night online fucking about something yeah that you can no literally you can yeah and and so it was dude it was like it was just it was like the I was like this is fucking awesome there's always a quiddity in the chat room there's always a quiddity and there's always a quiddity and so um we did they did the first q and a and I'll never forget it I was they did the first weekend q and a and people were going to come in and ask questions and it was bow alex tosh and nico and um and dude I was like an open q and a what oh yes because it would usually be like a webinar and the person doing the webinar would read one question rant for 30 minutes read one question rant for 30 minutes and we're done and they'd be like 200 unanswered questions I'd be like that was great so they did they did all these questions and you know it was like every single question got answered everything was in the threads um and I was like oh this is awesome and so as people started bringing their questions in I was like I know the answer to that what I know about here yeah and so they started seeing a bunch of people ask questions and I was like I know this wow and so I just started responding and I was faster than tosh because dude I was so addicted I was so addicted and I was just like reading these questions like I was like and I would just type it out and I'd beat alex and tosh to the answers every single time and then they wouldn't end up just like doing the arrow like this guy he got it that guy and um and so my answers were getting pinned like by ever by alex by tosh they were just getting pinned to the channel because it was like that's what they were saying and I was just writing a shit down and putting it back and then asking my own questions too and um and then the san jose been up came the bootcamp the first ever bootcamp uh and they had nobody to do any kind of sound and I have a background in music and music production um and at this time I had made a couple videos um and gotten a slight amount of people were like okay this guy kind of knows what he's doing and and it wasn't until a video I made that was that was literally just showing people how to make your chart on dos looked like bows on real tech that's all I did that's all I did and bow went fucking bonkers he was like this is fucking glorious I've had dos for like 20 years and I never knew you could do that I was I was like dude it's just a part at that point he was like uh he was like are you coming to san jose as like actually no I was not planning on it and uh he he goes well just wondering just wanted to meet you I was like all right cool and that just kind of left it at that and then uh and so I just stopped and I was like all right I'll just do my thing and then they were talking and they were continuing on and everything and and um and I was like you know I'm gonna reach out to him again and so I texted him and or DM'd him and I and I was like hey uh I don't know if you guys have anybody for this already but I have a vast experience and past in and even the equipment too to bring it if you do me too to san jose to run your sound to do this meet up how did you plan on running the sound and he goes what you know how to run sound I was like yeah and then he goes call tosh call nico now and and so I just went to the meet up and ran the sound and then and then it was it was from there on out and it was like that it was like you know tosh taught it was the weirdest conversation I've ever had next to a urinal but uh we're literally at this san jose meet up and like me and tosh like I go to the bathroom and then tosh walks in he goes hey what's up joe kelly I'm like yeah hey how are you man fantastic what you got over the underskid and we're standing there and he goes hey so uh about what I mean to talk to you about this and Alex too but uh I mean how would you feel about you know maybe maybe maybe making some content for MIT and I was like you're taking a piss yeah dude that was it it was like yeah just help out in the chat room you know where we can't you know when we're not there or something you know how you feel about that I was like why bro we didn't have moderators back then right like we barely no nothing nope and it got so out of hand one day that Alex DMed me and he goes do you want to be a moderator didn't get in fucking crazy he goes I was like okay and so I've been on all these other services and I'd seen how you moderate the chat room with the other services you just get fucking gagged yeah and I was like what is this fucking BDSM porn why is it going gagging and and so it was I mean that was it that was it from there there was there was nothing it was just I saw an opportunity to teach gave everything back that I could uh you know there was some questions that were way above my pay grade that I couldn't handle and but it was it was that I could respond and then Alex Tosh and and Bao and Nico they were all like yeah that's the right answer and it wasn't like the guru just rewording my answer just so the guru could say it and I was like I would be like bitch you just said what I said why not just say like that guy and and it was like from there on out it was I was always loyal past that point I feel like unsubscribe to every other single service and just stayed in my seat I feel like at this point too like you were a good trader but like when you started teaching and like helping others is actually what puts you into that next step of like oh shit like I need to be better like I need to be good and like you have to live by the example at that point yeah you know I mean you can't you can't say some shit like I think it's a good short right here and then long it you know what I mean like I got seen some people do like like yeah no for sure I'm for bitch we see you like looks like a good short yeah what looks like a good long short 50 000 shares I have to say out of all the time that I've been in this industry and like I wonder if you guys agree but I think now more than ever it's the trading industry is probably the the shadiest it's ever been like and there was some sketchy ass rums back in the day but like I think Oakmont was a more reputable situation than than Twitter is nowadays it has to be because you see criminals it's not even I don't know what you'd call it it's just you see shit out there and it's almost like my heart breaks for these new traders falling for it because we've all been there we've all been the guy and now I think it's harder because it's so out there like back when I first started Instagram didn't have that many ads like there was a cut you know everyone knows the ad agency the leopard and the Lambo and it was great but I mean now it's like showing your face every YouTube video you go on it's the same shit it's just this the same thing so it's I don't know I just feel like now it's changed so much and and I don't know it I guess it was that leopard and Lambo advertising type of marketing that got me into the market it's true I mean bro regardless of like the content that I actually learned from that pretty good actually believe it or not and I'll never dog it but yeah but it's advertising that was always the funny part but it's and it's so true it's the leopard and the Lambo and you're like I could own a leopard oh my god I can become like Dan Bilzerian oh yes I would say it has to be 90 to 95% of traders are into this because of that that goes at the same especially retail oh yeah oh oh retail yeah no I because there's those people that went to school for finance because they're like yeah my dad worked for a yeah for AP Morgan on the on the hedge fund side and you know I got a trust fund and and I got signed up through your service and you know we so we saw things and yeah it's funny because I just kind of just cut some kid like that just literally today some kid who I told him he knows what I do or whatever and he was like kind of had the same same voice same everything and I guess I guess now like looking back on that part of your career if you could give yourself advice or any new traders at all for that matter what is like the biggest like call it like little like bullets you would give people like if you do these things it'll get you there uh well I wish MIC existed back then yeah I would have saved the fuck that would have saved me a lot so I'm not gonna say there's any like list of things that you could do on your own to save yourself my best advice is if you're watching this today you have access to MIC you have access to a service and to an education service it's going to teach you literally everything you need to know in order to become a consistently profitable trader and making money on your own in a self-sufficient manner without having to depend on somebody else to tell you every day what to look for we're running these scans right here I like this three dollar area and yeah yeah we're gonna go ahead and long it uh like the premarket break at like fuck around yeah did you guys eat well did you both sleep well yeah I ate well I had ramen last night because I longed one of your pics anyway no so if I could tell anybody if there was something I could go back and tell myself to do or to not do it it would it would slowly be uh well there's a couple things but so if you come to MIC now and you've had prior education let's let's talk to the people that have prior education that are still inconsistent looking for something better in their trading forget all the shit that you think you fucking know you know nothing you know nothing you're not consistently profitable before now and you're coming to MIC curb your ego no shame in it no shame in it we ain't gonna call you out we don't care we don't care we don't care where you came from what you done whose tits you've sucked off of nobody gives a shit okay nobody cares what you think you know come to MIC with an entirely open mind to just learn the simplest fucking process you've ever been taught the simplest process to be able to go short or long in any market yeah large cap small cap I don't give a fuck if you're trading a forex room it'll work there too and whatever it is forget all that is my biggest crutch was when MIC started I brought all these things I thought I knew okay and I knew a lot and I knew very little about the things that really made you exceptional and that's where bow and alex helped me immensely was they were like look you know a fuck ton but you need to simplify it down you're you you're you're you're focusing on way too much keep it simple did I was on the phone one time I'll never forget I was sitting outside of fucking pandex press and I was on a phone call with alex and I was like how am I on a phone call with 809 trader this dude this fucking done how am I how is this real I've got bow cell phone number I'm on the phone with alex what's happening right now what am I doing and on the phone he goes dude you are like you know too much and you focus on too much you need to you need to whittle it down to the very important things that they're the only the important things and dude I was I like prided myself on knowing a lot of just random shit and always having an answer that it could be an educated answer right it was an educated answer but it didn't help me it didn't help me get really far so m.i.c prior to m.i.c. as consistent with m.i.c. I went from steady to like it went from it looks good and then like all of a sudden blowout earnings just boom through the roof and so it but the way that that came was simplifying everything I did everything I thought I knew I had to forget all that random shit that I thought I knew all those random things I thought worked oh maybe there's an edge if it does this if it does that or if it does this well no okay it happened one time no there's no edge in it it just happened to be something that you saw at that moment it never fucking repeated itself again and so it would but I would memorize those things I would remember those things I'm like Harry I have a photographic memory like I can remember a fucking scanner if I see a hot if this is the hot chick today I remember all other stocks that ran with it because it's photographic from there yep me too and it was uh it so I would tell anybody that's inconsistent that has been through the ringer has been through the the washing machine of services uh to forget everything you think to know come to come to MIC with an open mind an open book and a blank sheet of paper and just start fucking taking notes watching the content and you gotta live it breathe it and sleep eat everything MIC yeah and videos and all and like it's not like Alex is asking us to go and like make this after hours podcast and just give MIC like you know like right none of us are forced to to do this it's because we all believe in the MIC process and we also the the reason why we believe is because that's what makes us money at the end of the day you know yeah we're definitely not getting paid to be here I can fucking tell you that yeah I get paid in Bud Light whatever I read it's true I mean I feel like out of all the mods like the more we talked to everybody it's like the same thing every single moderator that has joined the team has dropped their ego yep has busted their ass watching content I mean that's being a mod too that was part of any time we promote a mod now Alex always asks me to and anytime I have something I'll always ask Alex or bow or any or Tosh or any of them I'm like dude what do you think about this Alex does the same thing to me it's just a sounding board but what you said was you can't have an ego every mod has came in and and either had an ego at a point and then lost it but the people that have an ego you'll never be you'll never be a part of the community sorry no you're probably never paid a good trade it you'll be an outcast I don't yeah I don't care how good you are you'll be an outcast because of the ego yeah that's I don't think I've met I don't think I've met a good trader or like I mean likable trader that has an ego like that too or that just hasn't had those moments that you talk about those like I don't want to say sleepless nights but those frustrated times were like you have to put everything into it you call those head in hands moments at the head of your hands moments yeah my head in your hands you're like can I fucking do this can I continue with this that was me about six months before mic started took the biggest loss of my career and the best lesson I can get from it oh I was borderline bro I was literally borderline quitting borderline took two weeks off um it was my daughter's second birthday the day that had happened uh so I had to go jump in a trampoline park after I lost 50 percent of my entire accounts in one you're just jumping off of it I'm just like jumping I'm just like happy birthday I'm the saddest person in a trampoline park if anybody can go to a trampoline park and not smile it was me that day it was it's like it's kind of you know it's it's the same thing it's like you know I've never seen a I've never seen someone's I've never seen one cry on a jet ski right all you do is laugh he's like I've never seen anybody cry in the trampoline park yeah I was borderline about I do like literally I it was the most money I'd ever lost in my entire life is more money than I ever made in a day for sure uh because I just compounded a lot of small wins yeah I never had like big parabolic winners until I traded Tesla on the big first red day that was my first ever really like solid solid solid win and I would just normally it would it was 305 or 701k and it was just a compound of that stuff because dude that stuff adds up yeah we do that it adds up faster than any 20,000 this day minus two minus five minus one minus three minus three minus three 40k minus five minus five and it's like I will take I will take $500 a day every single day for the rest of my fucking life to not do that emotional like minus oh yeah plus 40 I dude we preach it every day yeah I will I will take it every single day but it was a 50% loss of my accounts and and it was I almost quit I took two weeks off and the and the the promise I made to myself was if you take two weeks off and you don't feel in your heart like you need to come back you're done you're done so I took a full two weeks off I didn't open a single like message I didn't open anything like trading wise like I just went back to like my own bubble and I did not tell my wife how much I lost um to this day or did she know now it's day and uh I made it back but Jesus Christ uh so anyway two weeks after that uh fast forward I I'm sitting there and I'm like okay it's Monday and every single day even the days that I tried to not get up I was up 6 a.m ready to go and I'm I had to force myself to not like I just had to go do something like I was awake ready to go and so I had to go take a shower get ready and then and what I would do is I would just drive to Starbucks and I would I'd get a coffee Alex and I would be like yeah right I'd get a coffee and then I would just drive around until I had to go to work and I would just think about shit I would just think about you know I lost X amount of money before you know and it was just it was a moment where I literally like that was the first time I ever I ever thought about like like legitimately ever had thought that I was like man maybe I'm better off not even here maybe I'm better off like not even around I think I think my family might make more money if I was dead I got a pretty good life insurance policy and so I was like man I and but it just every day every day that I woke up at during that two weeks I was up and ready to go up market open at well before market open I wasn't like five minutes for market open show yeah what's yeah like I wasn't doing on the button baby yeah I wasn't hitting the horn like center stage we're gonna buy sgbx to 190 it has to go 190 190 195 197 195 yeah it was like I wasn't some fucking auctioneer I was dude it was I was ready to go every single morning and I had to force myself to take the time off and that was what it was I had to get two weeks under my belt to get that disconnect and ultimately when when everything came back down to it I was like I have to continue this I have to continue this I will not be beaten by the market I will not be beaten see it's what's fucked is like people people don't talk about those like yeah the down the down days like I I don't even know how to describe the feeling because I've had the days RKDA wasn't even my lowest low like dude I'm telling you like RKDA emotionally I know we just talked about that a minute ago that wasn't even my lowest low that was not my lowest low Intel sat the thicker I that was what I lost 50% of my account and I'll never forget it I'll never forget it I'll never forget it for the rest of my life all the lessons I learned in that the first the number one lesson and so you asked earlier what was another lesson that I could go back and tell somebody so it was to kind of full circle into that was fundamentals mean nothing until the technicals confirm it fundamentals don't mean jack shit until the technicals tell you it's time exactly and that the technicals in that trade never said short it but I kept shorting because that's fucking company all they did I was again too smart for my own good okay I'm not saying I was like intelligent I was too educated enough I knew too much to to like I knew how to dig too deep to get super biased and I dug and I dug and I dug and all this fucking company did all they did their satellite company all they did is they would run up a fuck ton of debt open a new subsidiary sell the debt to that subsidiary and then start to reaccumulate more and more and more and more and more open a new one dump it into them sell it to them and they would just creatively move the money they were billions of dollars in debt in the red couldn't they were still upside down guess what they went bankrupt and listed on the OTCs now but I couldn't outlast it I could not outlast it yeah I could outlast it that is a big like supply and demand factor I was fucking right but where you can be right but like it's like it's one of those like big short moments where it's like has the crowd done the same type of due diligence that you have done right are all these people who are pressing the buy button as educated as you are short and the answer is no probably not they probably aren't but people are still buying people are still buying the hot chick people are still going up because until there's a reason for them to sell they won't and that is a big big lesson in my in my trading career where I have noticed that's why the death candle works so well that is why the mic process works so well because until longs need a reason to sell until they get scared there's no reason yeah and it's just like shorts on the other side for me long until shorts need a reason to cover until it breaks high day until it's made a higher low until we have shorts upset there's no reason for that stock to go over highs and there's no reason for plomo longs who want to chase that and that is a big big big lesson that has helped me a million times over and I know it's helped you as well I know it's helped James too and that's a big big lesson that's helping this second lesson from that trade was I was down probably I was immediately down in this trade like as soon as I started the trade like I started shorting like two weeks before it ever had the big day yeah while in anticipation of their earnings okay and so you know everybody knows the the the thing of you know don't trade in upcoming events so that's not the lesson here everybody knows that I'm not going to say that reiterate the same shit that everybody fucking says um the other lesson is I was immediately wrong in the trade and it goes against me and goes against me and goes against me and I continue to average in I'm scaling in I didn't start big I like I knew that this could take time and it immediately goes against me I'm about halfway sized into it at this point and it has one really big tank day and I remember being up literally I remember the number to the penny 186 dollars and 47 cents I remember being up 186 and in the same day I was red again and so my best advice is this is always my rule if the trade immediately goes against you and then it gives you an opportunity to break even get the fuck out always get the fuck out I don't care where it's at on the chart do not reassess the trade and pretend it's a new trade because you have all this like rebound dust all over you you know you you're trying to you're trying to bump uglies with this girl in the club but you still got this other business lipstick all all on your neck and you're like no and she's like what's that on your neck you're like don't worry I'm just short a lot of shares of intel sat like it and dude it just doesn't fucking work and so the best advice I have is and it goes in both ways okay it goes in both ways if the trade goes vastly against you and you have an opportunity to break even or lose a little bit of money at that point let's say you had the worst fucking discipline in the world you're the worst if it gives you that opportunity take it it's a blessing from above the good lord above is looking down on you saying you got an opportunity to get out here's your opportunity take it because the blessings are few and far between folks let me tell you and the second side is when you're up a lot and you don't take any money and then it goes back to break even don't think it's going to come back up don't think it's going to go back or come back down or whatever it is don't think your p&l is going to rise again if you go through and what you call the floor amount okay it's a floor amount if you're doing any algorithmic trading or anything like that it's called a floor and basically let's say you go and you set a target you say okay once I'm up 500 bucks if it gives back $250 at any point I'm out and so once you get up x amount of money you have to set this point that I will not allow myself to give back this amount of money of these potential profits unrealized profits because unrealized man it's like it's like sitting at the blackjack table and you just keep winning you keep winning you keep winning none of those were realized gains until you stand up from that table and walk the fuck away to the cashier and cash out your chips and walk out that bitch it's all fake money at that point why do you think they give you fucking poker chips and not real money it's that same thing as stocks it it's not real you're literally not sitting there going this is a $500 bill that I just bet this is 10 grand I didn't know it's a fucking poker chip it it's the same thing as stocked man I've I've given back I remember days where I was up like thousand bucks thousands yeah thousand yeah and I just remember giving it back because it was unrealized and go back to your average and finally when it rent read you'd take it yeah but if you give me a thousand dollars in person and you just take it away from me of course it would be like what the fuck you're like I'm a kneecap this motherfucker and I love what you said about just like the chance I'd like why you were saying that I just had I think PTSD and it's almost like blacked out there of the times where I FOMO shorted the bottom of a range got squeezed and then it came right back down and I said I'm about to be right and I didn't take it off yeah and then I ended up taking a fat loss when I said room and Harry started buying it up that way and I can remember it here's the signal here's the signal folks if you're short and it blesses you and you get blessed and the market blesses you and says here's an opportunity to break even and Harry Haas goes long from it da da da da da that is the signal folks that is Harry signal and tail yeah what did Jorge Mads would all say he's like you got blessed today on EVK where I was like okay watching for zombie and then there were some people who were like hmm I don't know and I was like the web and then we had Alex come in and say okay that should have done blower I'm done for the day so yeah new people basically confirming and then we have Val coming in saying all right listen I'm not even touching it anymore and you know me guys but I could say afternoon all I've got two legs I'm gonna touch it yeah if Val gets up from treating and he's like I'm not shorting that shit I know five tickers that he has been like it's not a short I'm like fuck this motherfucker he just buys it he shows my that's the signal man Alex says don't short Bows says don't short and Harry's looking at it for a long no and that's where the jack can can help a lot where like you know we're not necessarily saying oh we're long at like 360 or 350 but we're saying okay we're watching this area for a long you know you you are supposed to be making a plan before this you're supposed to be drawing your lines toss says every morning now at 9 20 before the market opens at 9 30 if you don't have your lines drawn and you have no plan you should not be fucking trading like yeah yeah yeah the worst the worst part about trading is just going back and here like even just talking about it just makes you remember like if you had dropped the ego drop the the need to be right mentality I mean would all be up how much more money would all be fucking you know I'd have a much bigger apartment a lot a lot of cooler shit he wouldn't be doing this webinar in his fucking kitchen bro on a man would be in a fake office I mean so you've been trading for what six years now right in total yeah what are your what are your future plans what's like the next Joe Kelly you look at the future you see what uh algorithm algo really I've been coding an algo for the last 60 or 90 days or so two three months and it's basically going to be a basket of strategies that are just going to trade big caps and options and so I'm trying to go fully automated and not day trading yeah yeah it's the misconception right because day trading is the coolest job in the world like it is awesome but and I'm saying this honestly it's also the worst fucking job in the world like oh it is it's it's emotionally even even as a profitable trader even making money I and again I I will never take about I love what the fuck I do I'm sure you guys do too but like even Alex we've had this conversation like there's the days where you just fucking love it and then there's days you're just like fuck this like why do I do this to myself it's it's a tough job I mean yeah it's a great job but don't get me wrong but it's a fucking awesome job but it does come with you know a lot of other shit that you know there's a lot of stress and a lot of mental sacrifice and almost like mental baggage that you pull yourself through in order to become successful you know and especially with relationships I found the most with other people as well and maybe because I'm younger I have to like fucking deal with a lot of more people telling me what the fuck I should do with my life or even you know everyone has their own opinion because like even with James James was a haircutter even with Joe like Joe Joe had like Joe was older when he got into trading I think a lot older you were older than me weren't you yeah you started when you were 12 right yeah like I started trading when I was in fucking like grade 11 you know that's when I fucking started and so everyone was telling me bad idea bad idea bad idea and you know I think when a lot of people and like there's a lot of like kind of doubt put on you doubt cast on you that like oh what you're doing right now you can't make a career out of it or you you know I think there's a lot of mental fucking you know mental stress and no there's just you just said it there's a lot of mental fucking I mean that's the best fucking way that's the best fucking I agree I agree I learned I've learned how emotionally dude one time one time I my buddy we were driving I forget we were driving and I don't know what it was but we were just talking and you know sometimes you'll just like it's just like instead of people saying uh or and it's like that mental pause yeah like for a little while my thing was like I'd say something I'd be like but fucking and he was like but fucking what and from that moment on I've always I've always listened to people's sentences and when they'll say like this and then they'll say fucking it's like it dude it just goes so well it like you like mental fucking and then like I'm like yes that works but it was that day that he went what'd you say but fucking what about but and I was like oh my god and I was like ruin that forever now golly that was like it was instead of me saying mm like at the end of a sentence or something like that and like a pause I would I would say it and I'd be like you know man but fucking and and one time he just goes yeah he's like oh my god can you never hung up on your mind after fucking you know losing dude this happened a long before I ever knew about the market yeah this was still when I was a skateboarder in high school dude I would have loved to meet high school Joe Kelly I mean I feel like I was a dickhead dude I was a grumpy little asshole I thought it was fun to be me I wasn't ever a bully to people but I was always really sarcastic and so it was like you couldn't ever say anything serious to me that I didn't try to like come back with some smart ass remark and it was like I I would never bully anybody but somebody could probably call that emotional bullying in somebody but I would never like talk shit you know what I mean I wouldn't say like that but I was always like you can never have a serious conversation with Joe fucking hell yeah I'm a league and so I'm fucking that's mental fucking yeah that's mental fucking you know dude the emotional the mental side and the emotional side of trading is I mean like Harry was talking about earlier is is the side that people don't talk about so this was one of the questions uh that we didn't quite fulfill maybe everybody's question about but I did work full-time before going full-time trading and how did I do in how did I that's everybody's question to me every time is how did you make that transition how did you get out of it how did you because a lot of people they have a job that like allowed them to trade and then they just got out of it like I didn't have a job that allowed me to trade I was literally 12 14 60 hours a day like working constantly and so it eventually just became that's why swing trading worked so well and I didn't actually finally quit until like I felt like I had MIC that's for sure like I had all the support the yeah the all the all the all the freaking emotional support to go along with it to actually make that transition and it was all of these people it was it was all these people around me that were like are you not a full-time trader and it was Alexi would be like do you trade full-time no no I'm still you know I still work I remember the day you announced that I remember that I do what I remember the day you announced you're going full-time trading and like you posted the picture of the check that you had made from trading your first check that you took out right yep that was the first time I ever paid myself and it was like it wasn't even that much money but it was the real it was just it was the first time I'd ever wired out I just thought that you needed to just keep growing your accounts until they were as just as big as you could get them until you know they may and so I never know I'm like just wire out just just pay yourself a little bit never knew never would have done it never would have done it until MIC and it was actually Nico that that kind of ingrained that in my head and Nico and stuff like me as well yep yeah he and he was talking to me about he would he'd be like just request a check request a check because then it feels like a paycheck to yourself and it's the most rewarding feeling in the world everyone loves to cash a check I was like yeah screw and like boom done and so it was like it was the first time I ever wired out ever wired out and I didn't even wire I think I wired out like $400 but it was I wired out to go a paycheck yeah I wired out to go to the most expensive restaurant in San Antonio for me and my wife and that was what that paid for and that was the first time I ever wired out and I everything else I'd always lived off my income from from Ford and so the way to quit that's what everybody asks how do I quit my day job well let me tell you the biggest mistake I've ever made in my trading quitting my day job it was biggest mistake in my career ever quitting that it freed up a lot of my time but what I would recommend is is find a career that allows you to trade and then continue to make money in a non-market environment that you know like James is a business owner James continues to run the barber shops I know it Harry just shows up at everybody's fucking barbecues drunk and he's that creepy uncle he's a creepy uncle what do you do outside of trading Harry what do you do I actually don't know well it's pretty much I mean like I just trade full time and right basically when the market closes what do you do what do I do yeah what do you do I usually like this goes from interviewing Joe Kelly podcast you do I mean yeah like I mean I do like like so basically I went to university for two years dropped out would you go for uh business commerce business okay okay yeah like my dream well I had always I had found trading before I went to university so it was in university studying and um you know MIC also came along when I was in university and I at that point like I had my own kind of apartment it was on the water um I remember the pictures yeah along with some other things I remember the pictures that Harry I remember you drunk calling me one night you're like dude should should I just quit man should I just quit university man I'm like I love this I do remember him posting questions about that and so so why did you go for business what what was the plan well it was just basically I mean everyone told me that yeah I should go for business and because I could pay for it you know it was like you know you should go you should go so I went and I was like this fucking sucks other than the parties on the weekend and the fact that I have my own place and people would come over and drink was even worse because man there's stories of me fucking trading in the morning shorting some shit fucking putting a stop in going and yacking and just praying it was a fucking all-day fader or else I was gonna get stopped at and miss the re-entry so I mean there's tons of stories like that I mean and I honestly got to a point in my life where I was just partying drinking a lot and I know I'm super young but like I knew it was toxic for myself to come home and just have fucking 50 corona bottles on my fucking uh on my table like James has back there and just oh my god how many bottles have you drank during this entire thing James is intoxicated at this point no that's that's literally two I have to go to the gym after this I can't drink anymore Jesus it's 9 30 at night and uh it's 10 30 for freaking Harry yeah it's 10 30 for me yeah anyway so I did I did you know I did all that and um my parents were like listen like do you want to live with us for like a year or till whatever till you just buy a house or whatever you want to do and honestly that was the probably the best decision I have made because I had people that I had to be accountable for and I had people that kind of kept me in check whereas when I lived by myself it was like oh fuck it you know and also it didn't work out well that I lived right beside a liquor store like where I lived on the water there was also a liquor store a couple blocks oh god so I mean I would be on my way home and I'd see the liquor store and be like oh you know and then next thing you know like you just have a couple drinks and there were some people who kind of lived at the bottom of my building who would come up and there were people who lived just a couple blocks away who would come over next thing you know we got five sick boys are drinking are doing over some random shit I'd be drunk in the m-i-c chat like yo and people are doing say fucking night bro what are you doing I learned how to be consistent hungover which I had a process which I called the hungover process where I'd wake up at four am just a ton of water have a drink a shit ton of tile and all then I'd wake up at six am some more water drink some more tile and all I'd wake up in the morning and I'd be almost hangover free by then I'd still have like a little water bottle you know I'd be reading what bow or Joe or James is saying chat you know and like it it was just like I was almost like off the rails but I mean now I think I'm at a point where like I'm a way better trader now compared than a year ago um I like you better as a short seller yeah sniper trader you know um wait um I'm not like it's not that I missed the old Harry but it's like I do like where I am now you know I'm definitely a better trader I'm definitely I have another year under my belt and I also have people who you know and some people are like oh you still live with your parents or whatever but it's like no I moved out and then they were like no you should probably come back because like I mean they did like a surprise visit or whatever because my mom had to get eye surgery and no one told me and they just came up to my apartment and was like what the fuck Jesus Christ like a bunch of boys over they knock on the door and they weren't paying for it so I mean like it's not like they can be like oh they have more lines on a coffee table than yeah so I mean and they were just like holy fuck like what and they were like oh we're going to take you out to dinner and shit you know like or do you want to go out to dinner or whatever and I was going to have an intervention and then the rest of your family was there no Harry we need to talk the rest of my family are like you're retired like you go back to school like you like I'm just like no like you people obviously don't know what you're talking about but and every family event it's like so what's your five-year plan it's like so you asked me this the last one and blow up trading it has not been a year yet like it's been three months okay five years is a long time there's a lot of things that goes into those five years nothing is changed I can assure you nothing's changed from the last two weeks when you asked me five-year plan is trust me but I mean it's it's honestly good I also have some younger siblings who like you know if they somewhere or something like that because all my siblings were like were from me and my younger sister it's like eight years apart so it's crazy that we're all spaced out super crazy so like I'm in second year university and my brother's like in grade six you know that's funny yeah so yeah so like we're all super super spaced out and I don't know how that works so basically you're saying is you were the only planned child I know everyone else was an accident I was very unplanned but yeah you know just it's just kind of how it's worked out for me I'm happy when COVID's over you know I mean I don't really have a plan but I'm definitely gonna do some traveling I'm definitely going to you know have some time for myself for sure but I mean it's life has been good to me for the past like since like you know since I graduated you know I haven't really been through any like terrible terrible hardship or struggles and maybe what I consider a struggle most people don't consider a struggle because like we know what it's like to get like as you'd say but fucking you know we know you know so I just keep um I mean from like from where I was last year you know like I haven't really been drinking that much to be honest I haven't really been going out much but honestly that was good for me every once in a while I just get you know like everyone does you know I'll drink get drunk or whatever but now like I'm not really partying as much trying to just trying to live a normal healthy lifestyle now and you said a flashback to this the story of Joe Kelly at the uh was at the Austin meet-up which meet-up and the Dallas meet-up I mean the first time where you were stumbling through the no at the Philly meet-up where you were stumbling through the streets yeah that was Philly that's the last time I ever drank you would after hours I haven't drank after I haven't drank since that's about did you I that's about dude he will literally ruin your life it will change you it'll make you the best trader but he'll ruin your life oh yeah yeah dude I I was doing good I was doing good the whole night okay I had like five Cranberry vodka's that's really nothing for me I'm a big guy I can handle it yeah yeah but uh yeah it was tequila uh two shots what happened was uh the whole night I knew I got to avoid bow hey buddy what's up from across the room and I told Austin the same thing I said you and me we got to stick together okay got to stick together and uh he abandoned me where'd he go and then I went I went to go find a wave somewhere yeah he went to go fucking flop his hair on some chick hi my name is Austin I'm from Hawaii and ride surfboards and she was just like oh yes and I'm over here like on the other side I'm like hey hey hey over there you okay fine and um and so he just wanted to do his own thing and uh and so I just socialized you know I was hanging out with Alex and Tosh for a minute I was hanging out with Oliver and then we some brown white and we're rocking over here we're doing and we're talking to them we're talking to and I so I was like I was like consciously trying to maneuver my way around bow I was like wherever bow is I'm only 180 degree where and he goes here I go here and when he goes here I go here and when and so I was just like the whole time like I'm over here and he's there and at the end of the night we just I'm walking out of the bathroom and he's walking in no we just ran into each other just yo what's up man and he was fucking plastered at this point and and you know bow is just so lovable he's the most fun person to be around I've never been around a person that is more fun and more positive than him and and so he's like dude we're gonna go get some charm I was like oh fuck and so yeah I had like five cranberry vodkas and it was like mostly cranberry a little bit of vodka so I was fine and so we go to the bar and then one of the M.I.C. members comes up and sees us ordering and he goes I'm gonna buy you guys shots and I was like oh fuck and so he buys me and bow shots and him shots and we're like yeah let's take them together that was the first shot of tequila okay and I thought I was off the hook I took a shot with bow no bow insisted he buy a shot for me round two and so second one boom dude this is in a very short period of time too okay this is not like periods of where we walk away and come back and walk away and then come back no it was back to back and so we hit it and he's like oh man that's good all right one more I was like no no no no no he's like let's do it one more I'm like fine and it was it was this was like this is he was just telling me you know just one more ad just one more ad okay just a little bit more I'm a short just a little bit more and then I just like that third one bro was just as soon as I threw it back I was like oh this is gonna end bad and at that point I decided that I had to go piss again yeah and so did bow so I don't know why but me and Tosh and me and bow always end up in the bathroom at the same time apparently we're aligned on the same schedule same bladder same bladder same bladder schedule and uh yeah so we go to the bathroom and then at that time they flip the lights on in the bar right in the club that we're in and it's just like and so we're like what the fuck you know and everybody that was hot not so much anymore and and it's one of those like it was zombie times when you're like I'm gonna go by myself yes yes oh my god it was like discovering it was like discovering a hidden ATM you're like Jesus I see what you did there I see how you called it a sales agreement yeah and uh no anyway so we leave okay we all get together we leave Austin rejoins me at this point all of a sudden we're arm and arm again awesome drink right he drank there he drank that was the only time that was that was me and him that was our that was our pact that was our we don't drink so we will drink together moderately he had like four I had five I was like we're good we're even and then I ran into bow he avoided in the entire night and that was bad so all of a sudden me and me and Austin relink right arm and arm ready to go ready to leave no bathroom upstairs they wouldn't let you back in the bathroom so you had to leave so we left and everybody was like I was like all right cool I'm gonna go back to the hotel and I'm gonna pass out because I got a piss like a racehorse no Chad and his wife from Cobra me and Austin a bunch of other members from MIC uh we all decide no let me rephrase that they all decide that we're gonna go get pizza at 3 a.m because there's this pizza place around the block okay they said around the block eight blocks later we're still fucking walking to the pizza place I've had to piss for eight blocks and I am mammered okay gone gone and I'm just like sitting I'm like walking in the back of the group like talking to Chad and his wife and I'm like yeah guys fine have you had a good time me too great I'm like man I can't wait to get there I gotta piss so bad and so uh we're like they're like just down the block just one more block this is fucking like eight blocks has been like seven blocks gone by I'm like you said that you can just whip it out in a little alleyway there's not enough people to even see you so dude there was an alley between the buildings it was dark and there's a trash can and I felt like I was on an episode of like like the Punisher or like Daredevil you know like how everything happens in the alley and it's all dark and it's like the trash can and I was like I felt like I'm in that city moment and so like I just walked back there and I literally I'm just like right next to the trap I'm like right next to the dumpster and I'm like that was my moment where I'm like you have hit an all-new low and you are literally urinating next to a dumpster you need to stop what you're doing and rethink everything and that was when I stopped completely I have not I haven't I don't casually do it anymore I don't do it what I just I don't do it and that was I was like I was like no no I I'm telling you bro you can't you can't keep up with Val he will retire you he will retire you you will be you will be Michael Bisping thinking you can take on George St. Pierre and he's gonna retire you you're gonna you are gonna fucking hand over the belt and you will be retired I tried in San Jose failed didn't work I tried in Dallas failed didn't work and then there was San Jose Dallas Philly there was another one the first New York meet up New York there we go that was it so it was Dallas San Jose New York Philly and no never again and now you're done I'm done I'm done bro but that was dude that was my that was that was it I was like I'm out I'm out I can't keep up with this so I mean you're talking about I think he gets a new river every six months he goes Thailand or some shit comes back and he's re-stocked he's like fuck this for real yeah he just walks around with a fucking dialysis cart right next to him pumping that shit out like and he just he's just ready to go the next day there's the number one lesson that I might see taught you avoid the fuck out of bow at a bar yeah he don't want to get fucking bow is the zombie yeah that was not he's the hot chick he's the hot chick at 10 30 walk away walk away yeah bow don't be back bro yes no he's our he's our kda he's fucking kda bpth sbi bro he'll find it he'll limit up on you and you ain't got no you got no warning whatsoever misses your hard stop just blows right through it market maker won't even execute because the bids too spared part like you won't even nothing just you're done you're done you're one of many casualties in vows line of retirement I'm sure he's probably killed everybody at some point everyone at MLC I don't know dude we all gotta get together like I want this shit to be over so we can all get together he always says he's like yeah my girlfriend you know this girlfriend or that girlfriend he's always got a new girlfriend and I'm like where do all these people go and I'm I know what happens to them now they all die from alcohol poisoning they're buried somewhere because they all died from alcohol poisoning because they can't keep up oh shit well man that no I think we yeah I think of the bow killing his girlfriend's part we can kill this well honestly guys that was fun as fuck I always love talking everybody um thank you Joe thank you for this yeah perfect thanks for sharing your secrets I think that this was definitely a good interview because it really does like I mean as much as we do see you through the webinars and as much as we do see you all the time through chat I don't know where James just went but as okay as much as you know we we see you through all that stuff like it is always good and refreshing to talk about the journey the experience you know everything that just really makes you who you are and um you know I think that that is you know definitely an important part and I think it's good to have that out there as well I appreciate it gentlemen yeah thank you guys love you guys as always enjoy your uh workout sir