 You're welcome back. It's still the run-up. We know that in our country today a lot of people are complaining in one way or the other Something must touch you. We are hearing of high-profile kidnaps from Every quarter and from every corner of our nation people as high as lawmakers are being kidnapped people as high as Contestants in the forthcoming election are being kidnapped. We've also had Cases of lawlessness coming from people that we should not expect ordinarily We just had a story about the wife of a DSS director general ordering the arrest of a Candidate of the new Nigeria people's party in one of the states here in the country Why because the convoy of the candidate obstructed her own movement So she ordered the arrest of the candidate of that party and we've seen people riding motorcycles and Cars with plate numbers that are only carrying broader of this local government chairman Of a particular party. We've seen very funny things here happening But we are most most disturbed about what is happening in the economy and security Because that is where we all hang our livelihood if the economy is bad You don't need an expert to talk to you about it if security is not there You don't need an expert to tell you that your life is not safe But right now we are also concerned by the fact that President Mohammed Mado Buhari last week Accented to the twenty one point eight three trillion 2023 appropriation bill he signed it into law and that is his last as the president The president had in the fiscal document proposed an annual budget of twenty point five one trillion Naira for twenty twenty three showing a nineteen point eight percent increase from Seventeen point one three trillion Naira approved for twenty twenty two Including the supplementary budget and we wonder why every year the budget has to go up so there are things that have to come into the policy and things that are supposed to be Repeated so to speak because sometimes when we do our budgets as personal people as in private individuals in our homes Maybe one year it will be very tedious It will be very consuming of our finances and all that but when we get some things settled the next year We budget less for less things that we need but it's not the case in the national life We will have to get closer to where they eat the porridge to understand how it really smells The president said the aggregated expenditure of twenty one point eight three trillion Naira Was any an increase of one point three two trillion Naira over the initial executive proposal of a total expenditure of Twenty point five one trillion Naira Just recently the debt management office DMO said Niger's total debt stock would hit 77 trillion in May 2023 if the National Assembly okay the Buhari administration's twenty three point eight trillion Naira or 23 point eight trillion ways and means advances that he wants to borrow more through the ways and means Meanwhile the federal government stated that it spent over 80% of its revenue on debt servicing in the first 11 months of 2022 The Minister of Finance and Budget and National Planning Mrs. Zainab Ahmed on their part had said There is no cause for alarm over the country's debt profile because the nation has no record of Default but experts say the significant implication of the government's over reliance on short-term borrowing to finance is operations as the government Has had to pay higher interest rates to attract investors and for flaring inflation Now we are joined by an expert dr. Boudin at Dedek Bay. He is an economic expert Good morning, and thanks for joining us dr. Dedek Bay on the run up Good morning. It's my pleasure to be here and thanks for having me Okay, this budget it went in as slightly above 20 trillion and the National Assembly jacked it up to More than what the executive sent to the legislature, but now it has been accented Let's begin with the fact that it seems as if the the budget was passed in a Horried manner because if the president saw some things within the budget that he talked about he complained about and Said some committees will be set up and people will look into it and then they see what they can correct Why was there need to hasten to pass this budget in the first place in your opinion? Well, let me thank you very much for that I will take you for the perspective of having the privilege to interrogate this space for well over 40 years now And the one group as a professional in this space Seeing an era in Nigeria where government bodies were signed into law at the beginning of the year in fact Traditionally on the first of January the budgets of the federal government of Nigeria was always out and within that same week and Usually the finance minister will do the breakdown at an international press conference. That was the pattern So that's over the years when we began this democratic dispensation With the pattern from that so that also began to affect the planning cycle in the private sector Because we got to a point where it was so bad that the budget was signed into law in May of The year of its operation in which case we now have to rely on what was approved in the preceding year budget as a guide to spending and Now begin to talk about implementation of the current year in May So for me correcting that and bringing it back to January is a plus. All right now talking about reconciliation Typically any time it comes to finances There is always the need to reconcile issues and items So for me the interpretation is a choice between whether to sign the budget into law right now or To delay signing of the bill and making it an act and now insisting that we reconcile all the items of You know differences between what the executive presented and what the lawmakers, you know brought in as amendments So if we have to wait for that then we lose the opportunity of having a budget given to all of Nigeria's and our Stakeholders so that we can also plan accordingly and this in context very important if you take our GDP and aggregate all governments expenditure That is filter states and look through the country assuming even their budget able to implement 100% All governments taking together there will just be about 10% of our GDP Quit means until we have the policy statement with the budget upset The remaining 90% of the economy cannot make any clear commitment and plans in terms of reform So for me, it's a wise decision to sign it because we now know that beyond the fiscal operation That is revenue generation and expenditure plans. There are also what we call commercial policies in that point And of course these also have every vacation for business So for me, it's a plus that it was signed into law. It's a natural. We know what those policies are So what people talk more about is government spending this service revenue? Where are the budget is a lot more than that? it has also the trade and exchange component and it has the you know the what are we called the The policies carry policies that come in there as well So those three components become the budget where people often emphasize the spending and revenue generation So for me, that is the advantage of signing it and they're talking about a constitutional need Okay, but I I still seem to understand and it's not It's not far-fetched The budget was the max advantage of signing the budget in January because a fiscal year Doesn't have to follow the Gregorian calendar, for instance It's just like a school year that starts in December and you begin to count in Nigeria, for instance A political year if you allow me it begins in May So why must we sign a budget in January? Well, what advantage does it bring to our economy by signing it in January and especially like this one that? Things still needed to be reconciled, but they were not and they signed it. What advantage are we having? Now I'm a business strategist and I've been in that space for over 33 years In fact 34 years counting down as a business strategist where you design strategy for businesses We need to understand this that without a clear direction of government policy You can't family plan strategy for any business All right, but like I said Don't forget that fiscal operations talks about how do we care a trip new for where and then what does government want to spend on? That is just one plan of The budget every year. There are two other plans that relate to tariff structure That is what we're talking about constant duties Exile duties and rest of them then of course we have trade our next change which relates to your monetary policy They make up the entire plan of the year that are made up. I mean I make up the budget So without that complete picture, I can assure you there is no company Who's CEO can beat his chest and tell me that have concluded my strategy for the year And I said this with every sense of responsibility as not only a professional economist But also as a business strategist that in all reality I'm waiting to see a budget that tells me what the trade policy for the year is what the exchange rate policy for the year is What the cost of stariff is what is happening to import duties? What is happening to export I mean and export tariffs and the rest of them so excise all of these things are Contained in the budget So when I get them on time, I'm able to finalize my plans for the year So that is why for my own perspective It's a good thing to have the direction of policy for the year It is not a political issue and I think people are mixing things up here now It is not a political calendar Neither is it running with the calendar of all Gregorian calendar of January to December the plan really is that when you look at businesses And you look at the usual patterns with economics Not just in Nigeria, but all over the world. There's a typical pattern beginning of the year The economy is slow. You can check the history. We deal with the data Okay, and also toward the end of the year when you get to November December, especially the economy slows down So the space you have in terms of business planning and strategizing is often time between February and March and then October November so we case the earlier you get a pointer as to policy direction The easy it is for you to design your strategy for the year as a business person So what you now want to work on is execution there? So and that is the perspective of print have come in. So it's a combination of both Look at the economic side to it and they look at the business side That is why I think for me is a plus having a sign and I can do with reconciliation Reconciliation is a year-long thing. It is not something you do once and for all as people pretend it to be So that is the perspective I'm coming from and I want people to also understand that it's it's clear It's clear right now because if from a layman's point of view you can't seem to understand Why that is so important because for instance now in May a new government is coming in and They had no no input into the budget of this year and when they come there's a possibility There are a lot of things that could change Especially if the new government is not of the APC should that happen will it affect us as a country? You know our economy as a country Fantastic question now typically Whenever there is a change of government in a judge is May 29. Okay new government comes into office Typically the new government whether of the same political party or another one We take another look at the budget and then do a review of that to align with the realities of the moment And what their own policy direction is that is the way it happens not only in Nigeria, but globally So what now we play out is that when a new government comes in then we come with our priorities Which certainly will be different than the one that is after gone. All right So naturally it will have to do a review of the budget a heritage. It happened in 2007 Between Obama's and your idea that I was involved in that conversation. Do not remember the cabinet. Okay, but as a policy advocate in Nigeria I was involved in that in fact that in the part of the conversation There were certain things in Obama's and just last budget that were expounding your address first boy And that if I released the issue we are discussing today their profile was at that time You know, but I just find a budget of 2007 There was factored in a one billion dollar so-called debt relief Pretty a challenge at the time that it doesn't exist anywhere Because you can't put in your budget Revenue that I didn't earn But present it as a debt you have already paid and you don't need to pay That is what we call dubious analysis So but 2008 budget you can fact check this That element was removed by a advanced government. So it is not a new even though they were in the same political party So every government costs its office with its own priorities And then naturally we have to make some amendments to the heritage budget That way it goes all over the world and I just gave you an illustration typically in Nigeria They are put 2007 2008 Okay, I know that our major focus today is debt profile But before we go into what a lot of Nigerians feel is spelling doom for us We still need to clear some things about the budget now you've had You've had privilege to look at this document for 2023 what has been budgeted And how it has been budgeted and all that and the problems of Nigeria Nigerians tied to the inflation rate that is You know, it's skyrocketing inflation rates We are operating in about two digits which is not good enough for us now Having looked at this document How how confident are you that the 2023 as a year as a fiscal year will fight The issue of inflation All right. Thank you very much for that question now and we get deep back into history God, it was a question that you know, my son asked me he's also a professional economist We have a conversation. I said the highest inflation rate ever in Nigeria Happened in 1995 And that was 72 percent inflation rates So at the young man asked me say hey, if you know this history What did Nigerian do at that time that now brought inflation down eventually to single digits I told him a very good question And that is what I asked myself today What are the drivers of inflation in Nigeria? The major drivers still remains food inflation Which means the call actually you might find is already decelerating Their food inflation is still rising. So the question is why? In which case if we are to break the back of food inflation Then we need to ask about those things that make food not available in the right quantity Those things that make food not to be affordable. And of course, these are just two out of the four elements of food security Okay So this then we give pointers as to what to address And what it also means is that the more we produce locally The better control we have over inflation Because the portion of that is also important When you depend on impulse for as much as 1.9 trillion Naira every month That is our average import deal in Nigeria 1.9 trillion Naira every month we spend on impulse. So there is no how that we not also Feature in your inflation because that is tied to the exchange value of your currency So if Naira is losing value That means impulse will get more expensive and that fits into your domestic rate of inflation Remember food also as I mentioned is a major element So it means them that dealing with the problem of inflation in Nigeria We require exchange rates Stability and also ensuring we produce more food that we consume So that we then link to the security issue you mentioned earlier With the security has to be improved significantly So the farmers that run away from their farms because of the fear for their lives We return to the farms and start cultivating And then we can increase the volume of food that comes into our markets And thereby in the process also reduce our dependence of food imports So they're all interrelated and I'm happy you brought this up for conversation So that we give a pointer as what we expect the incoming government to do and focus on Then generally in terms of expectations anyway for 2003 The most analyst forecast that rate of inflation in Nigeria will drop this year In the light of the drivers on the one hand Which relate to food inflation Exchange value of the Naira which again on the zone was also driven by the Period we are in that is the run up to the elections of February march 2023 That typically a lot of carnipool does and I also relate that to the redesign of Naira the center bank introduced Okay, we seem to have lost the audio of dr. Dedic pay there But he's been talking to us about the budget Our our main discussion today is about a debt profile But we need to just lose in some knots here and there are cigarettes the budget how it was done and What hopes Nigerians could have for 2023 because of this budget It is the highest that we've had because every year it keeps increasing Which means our problems are multiplying, but I'm sure that the solutions also are multiplying I'm hoping that way But our food security is a problem because a lot of people wouldn't mind if there's A shortage of any other thing so long as there is food and then there is shelter. They are covered Not many people really care about all the Fine things of life. They just want to feed they want to sleep peacefully somewhere and have their peace But this condition also is threatened and that is why we're looking at this budget. How is it good? Is it going to make or manage area? Knowing that we have a lot of debts and all that because that's what exactly we are going to discuss here But we're we are hoping dr. Biodunadedic will return and when he returns he will answer Questions on some gray areas before we move to Talking about the debt profile for now. We'll just take a short break. Stay with us You're welcome back. It's still the run-up and we today are Focusing on the debt profile of Nigeria, but before we go deep into that We needed to find out some things about the budget and the prospects that budget hold for Nigeria Before the break dr. Biodunadedic pay economic consultant was talking with us and Give him more light to some of these things and dr. I'd like to return to you because even though the question was not The approach that the government should take you started pointing out some of the things that need to be done Would like to just still talk about that because Making a pronouncement that this is the budget making provisions that inside the budget is one thing but The the strategy to implement this budget is yet another thing. So Would like to know If you were to advise the government What strategies should be put in place to make sure that the implementation of this budget is for the good of Nigerians and they will get close to a hundred percent if not a hundred percent This budget Excellent. Now when it comes to execution There are two important things you must do First is defining very clearly Your priorities that talks to sequencing Because you having done the budget a list of things you want to do So sequencing is very critical because getting something done Will enable and empower you to do some other things So therefore talk about the components of that budget be properly sequenced The second critical thing is what in the private sector we call performance management And that means there must be a system within government That ensure that whatever we are planning to do first quarter There's actually a score card at the end of that quarter to tell us what percentage they do execute The portion we are unable to execute Well, where the reason is So we want to then make corrections in the second quarter We do a similar thing in the second quarter when we finish second quarter beginning third quarter We do an evaluation How far did we go with what we are supposed to have executed in the first half of the year? So now the moment to bring that in We call it you have now made your budget and strategy measurable That the way I describe it for the private sector, okay Making strategy measurable is simply the fact that you have identified the initiative what we do specifically In the first quarter end of that quarter You now look at those initiatives how many of them did you execute? The ones you could not what were the reasons was it because we didn't have the money In which case they were no cash bank as you call it in you know fiscal operations Or the you had a situation Where the precondition were not met now instead of the execution in the public sector We also talk about precondition Quickly certain things must be placed before you can execute a particular component of that budget So in case the people in charge must not only be conscious and aware of this But they want to also ensure that they track it So those are the things that make success of budget execution So they do that then the engineers will fare better with the execution of this budget Okay, you gave a staggering figure earlier on 1.9 trillion naira Spent on import per month not even per year per month 1.9 trillion that is quite a lot But yeah, what did you see in the budget that could give you hope That production local production may increase in 2023 Yeah, thank you so very much now and this relates to the issue of debt profile. We also want to examine Often times people make reference to in fact suck trend Nigeria But we miss out the reality That in the last eight years infrastructure indeed in Nigeria has improved That the reality and in fact a lot of what we see in a debt profile today Relays to projects. They were infrastructure and project. They were delivered And again say this every sense of responsibility Being in a position then in 2004 To advise a master just government to do what body is doing now And he received advice from the world bank That if he invested out of our foreign reserves then In infrastructure like to trigger fish now impressions And I made it very clear at the time That when you have your external reserves At greater than 20 months import cover of your import bills What advice above that you can take a portion of it to develop infrastructure But that was the advice of the world bank will be 2004 Now for me as an economist infrastructure anywhere you go in the world We call it an enabler All right Now some 11 years ago When I did a review of Nigeria's infrastructure vis-a-vis 10 other countries That made up the next level That led us to developing the financial status strategy in 2007 That later became became Nigeria's vision 2020. All right. I was involved in that in 2007 Now when we worked on that we identified infrastructure as a major enabler By 2011 one of our living by-student his face with Facebook asked me to do some review of infrastructure in Nigeria vis-a-vis the other 10 countries in the next level And I think Nigeria rated poorly why because we are relying place but it was not all functional We are rules in place that were mostly taught But they were also not in moderate condition So the question for me today as an analyst What I saw 11 years ago is completely different than what I'm dealing with today In which case there is real at least working in three corridors in Nigeria A good number of our roads also today are motoring and in fact my typical example Is Lagos by the expressway And now you take also the concrete road in Lagos the second longest in West Africa So all of these are development that happen as a result of the focus on infrastructure And being to Bonnie Island as a consultant many many times in the past Way back to 2003 let me say Okay, and each time I went it was on the waters in boats Now a bridges and road is linking for record to Bonnie Island That's a major infrastructure improvement So when I look at all those And I tell myself that look I saw briefly in the government for three months in 2011 as an advisor to the president of Nigeria time Okay, and I recall that there was a particular notorious bridge That different governments over the years and mentioned in their budget And that is your way to local bridge that bridge is not right now as you are speaking Okay, so for me therefore when I look at different issues over time that have been privileged to Erogate and also a good policy over the last 40 years By all means Nigeria's infrastructure position today is better than where we have been years ago so When that happens of course the implication for the economy Is that travel time will reduce? And therefore there will be more time available for economic activities that will enhance productivity Once productivity is enhanced People make more money companies make more money pay more taxes And so it connects also to government revenue as projected for the future So all of these things are interrelated So when you take them together holistically Then you can now say that all right I expect an improvement in the economy this year. So that is where our perspective is coming from About the growth of the Niger economy You as the second the next question what specifically this infrastructure you're talking about Will do to improve our economy and you've started touching on them Maybe there are some more that you'd like to talk about because even the federal government on its own said at one point Last month it was on the news They kept talking about it that Some people are building infrastructure where they didn't need any for instance some states where Doing flyover in villages that did not need flyover because there's never a traffic jam there It's an infrastructure put in place But the people do not need it and it's not going to translate to any economic Advantage to them. So specifically apart from the ones you have mentioned How are these particular infrastructure that you're talking about going to help us Pay back the loans that we collected to do the infrastructure Very good very good question now. This is the way it goes now When you look at infrastructure globally that is across different countries around the world In my research I discovered something That the dead profile of companies This is the quality and state of infrastructure. There's a net source of 67 percent Which means most countries very few are exempted Actually borrow to develop the infrastructure The world has played out historically I'm talking here about history in some countries of over 100 years. All right Now where you now find that As infrastructure improves The economy expands Government revenue also grows And so they have the capacity to repay the loan Now we are the challenges for me Nigeria is this We are not generating sufficient revenue from the infrastructure deliver To be able to repay those loans. That's an area I believe the incoming domain we have to look at Yes, it means basically That if the debt is serviced long term Yes, we have a long time period of time to repay which is something we are very much interested in as analysts Now that is on the one hand, but the issue is the revenue to repay the loan where would I come from? There can be a disconnect between infrastructure being delivered newly And the revenue you are generating I've had comments for example about the second Niger bridge And there are some, you know, let me say stakeholders You know advocating that there should be no toll on the news in the second Niger bridge That is an aberration When it comes to infrastructure delivery And people also must be more Develop what I call the world view The world view we take you for example to China All right I use China as a model for your address government in 2008 When we created the concept of infrastructure Nigeria All right What we said them was that What Nigeria did today is something that China had done before And that is to develop railway and build it as a network of four by four Then develop expressways network of four by eight In which case when you develop infrastructure It is two worst locations where there are economic activities And that is what your question is actually driving us towards So when you develop infrastructure That we enable economic activities where they currently take place That we create economic value If for example I want to travel to the east from Lagos Just to stay with the second Niger bridge And I don't want to pay toll because toll is on the second Niger bridge Then I'll be compared to go through the first Niger bridge Where I will probably encounter more traffic So in case if I choose to pay the toll That is the price and pay for convenience and also crossing The River Niger today a short period of time That way it is all about the world Roads are told in China That's what I made reference to China That's where I'm going here Roads are told in China Okay We want to pass through the expressway The same day it's in the U.S We want to go for example from Douglas airport In Washington DC to Maryland All right There are tolls on the expressway If you don't want to pay tolls To take the road that bypasses the expressway It's as simple as that That is the concept everywhere in the world We also are developing and delivering railway projects But the question is how much is the fare for a regular trip When you aggregate the fares The question is to what extent will that go In servicing and repaying the loans taken To deliver those projects That is where the disconnect is For the federal government the S is very clear But as you made reference to state governments Now for state governments Federal government has no control over them They choose to do what they want to do Either for popularizing purposes Or for any other purpose Or probably deliver a project from where they can get some You know extras to fund some other activities Whatever But the point is this We face federal government here Because their whole jurisdiction is national So any project deliver That will bring improvement in productivity How do they also within the context Of those that use those infrastructure Also generate revenue enough To repay the loan over a defined period of time In fact that is the whole essence of public-private partnership Where private partners are involved So these are the issues That we have to again interrogate Probably Baris administration will not do that Within the remaining four and a half months they have in office Possibly the next government we have to consider that So we have people now have to pay economic value And not see those projects that cost so much as social projects So they are economic, not social Okay If it's education, education is social nature Health is social That's economic infrastructure That's economic infrastructure Just a moment I'm concerned about the people who will have to pay the tax That will make the government to repay the loans For instance The ASU president just said That education loans should be increased from 3% to Education tax rather From 2.5% to 10% And financial experts came out to see That it is very wrong The timing is wrong And that increase has just been done And that when you put all the tax That companies pay together You go from one tax to the other At the end of the day you find out that companies Are paying up to about 65% Correct Yeah So if the companies are paying this much Individuals get to pay this much And all that Do you think the economic situation is favoring Even individuals or corporate bodies Enough to tax them even more Because of the infrastructure they are enjoying Well it's not about taxing them more It's about if you have to run I will give a live illustration If you go to Frankfurt in Germany today The rail line within Frankfurt city Was constructed several decades ago I was made to understand that The loan taken to construct that railway Is still being paid All right So now it means projects of that nature Usually the loan you take to deliver them Is over a long period of time Now the challenge that I see with Nigeria is this We look at any money we are owing As something we need to pay immediately It's not so anywhere And that is why people like me Challenge the Basundas administration About the so called debt relief That is not done for any country Anywhere in the world It was a big aberration But must we copy everything Must we copy everything Because for instance Some people are saying We are selling our soul as it were To the Chinese Who are now trying to build police stations And all that in our country And owning some of the infrastructure In our country So is it good for us I dispute that interpretation You know why Because the loans we are taking from the Chinese Are cheaper Than the loans we took from the Paris debt law And we have interrogated that space in the 1990s Okay So the loans are cheaper They are longer, you know So the critical thing for us is this Are we using the money to deliver what we intended Give you another loan station Have a patient in Nigeria Go to our airport ten minutes What we have today in Nigeria Know what we have for five, six, seven years ago You learned not beating me in Panakot Before Nakanopi At Panakot Airport Today they have a terminal building So now that is geopolitics And we must also recognize that When it comes to economies It is your interest that we primary Not the interest of the other party Nigeria is not selling its soul to China in any way If I will get infrastructure delivered By accounting next door to me in Nigeria I will go get them to deliver it Because that is the problem I have today So I will go by the sentiment Of alignment with one person or the other And that is the problem Nigeria has is independent Okay I have had occasions to be invited by foreign governments To analyze our economies since 1960s today Okay, talking about the issues we have That has been a major problem of our government here Because we always think about alignment Instead of, like you rightly said Instead of looking at ourselves And developing what works for us Rather than copying from others Even when we copy We copy poorly, we paste poorly So that is where our problem is For me it's about We have infrastructure deficit How do we feel it? Okay If I can cheap lose for China Longer channel It's good for me Yeah, doctor Because the time is running out Let's cover some more things My concerns I know that the train of thought is good But you said When you build infrastructure towards Your source of income as it were I don't remember the exact words you used But infrastructure towards where you make money And then I come and see the railways And the roads that have been done In this administration And I get worried That for instance There's no rail that directly leads to the ports So much so that We don't even need the tankers That have been blocking their papa road For instance And then we're talking about building infrastructure So why was there need to build infrastructure? But without taking it to where We can evacuate the goods Make our economy faster and better And grow astronomically We're just building infrastructure And then another thing is Ajakuta steel complex That has taken like 40 years And it has not been completed Which would have degenerated a lot of things for us And make the economic revolution Or industrial revolution in Nigeria complete The refineries are not working But infrastructure have been put in place Are you not seeing that as a misplacement of priorities? I don't see it as such Let me explain that to you Because I've been a part of this conversation for long When Obasanios government came up With the real master plan in 2004 It was just an idea on paper All right 2008 We brought the four-year-old infrastructure You know infrastructure in Nigeria concept The idea was to have at least Three by one network of railway in Nigeria And the idea was Rehabilitate the existing lines From Lagos to Kano Rehabilitate Borakon to Meduguri They meet in Kaduna Then also create a third line From Kaduna to Wari In a weak case you have Wari It appears with Pashtra, Ijaputa And then to Abuja Then Kaduna So you have three lines Running north to south And then you have to take a line That runs west to east The concept there was to take one from me That runs through Akure-Ondo-Bini And then Onitsha Then Enugu Enugu is a product of Meduguri line But it's on Lagos Kano line So Nigeria will have three by one Now in my interpretation As somebody outside the government That is what I see this government doing We case let's develop the rail network That will enable, for example The inland container depot In Erumu in Oyo state To be by the rail line That has been developed newly And therefore you can move goods From Lagos to Ibadans Service Oyo state The same thing we apply in the east The line from Kodakoda goes to Meduguri Passes through Enugu There's a station close to East Gate inland container depot Which is in Abuja state All right That's 700 meters to East Gate Now that rail line We therefore service that inland container depot That's a dry port That is the concept That China used to become the manufacturing ground For the rest of the world So and we envision that Nigeria can become the same Have all these rail lines They are networked in Abuja Then we have inland container depots in Kando In Kanduna And also in Bauchi All of these are connected by the distant rail network So if you do that Then I can site my factory anywhere in Nigeria And then assure that My raw materials come from anywhere in the world Easily I can pick them up from the Internal container depot that is dry port Close to me Equally when I produce for export In the same manner Getting to the inland container depot It gets on the rail line Down to Lagos For that kind of worry at the KBD And the goods can be shipped out So that is the concept They are all interrelated But these things cannot happen overnight That means we do them systematically One step after another What I expect is that The government comes in We continue without a scheme All right So by the time we have this in place Then a manufacturer can site his factory Anywhere in Nigeria That is not far from the Existing rail line And the inland container depot That is dry port That and the concept They are all related All right So if already We see a government that now took that idea And is implementing What we need is another government To take it further To get us to where we have a vision to be I was a part of the conversation March 1990 Ladies and gentlemen In Paris in France Where we had the conference theme As how Africa can become The manufacturing ground for the world We're back in March 1990 So when we are talking about things like this There is history Okay Of what we have vision for Nigeria and Africa Okay Unless we do that And we get a lot of the Scottish men For those who see Nigeria as a market for their books Okay We don't want it to do that Dr. Adedikwe Well Today is about Debt And we had to sweep all the corners Before we ask the simple question That we are asking as a final one Our time is up The Ministry of Finance has said that There is no cause for alarm No matter how much is being borrowed In fact the presidency has said Only a credit worthy person can be given loans So Nigerians should not worry But we've also had this information That by May If the ways and means Borrowing that the federal government Still intends to do Comes off And it's being signed Uh It will mean that we will go into a debt of about 77 trillion Naira Should we be worried or not? Well I will take that from this perspective Now when it comes to ways and means advances It is borrowing from the central bank As the lender of last resort to the government Okay So it then also means that When government borrowed from the central bank In huge sums We call it hot money Because it has a tendency Of triggering inflationary pressures That is of concern That is worrisome To any economic analyst So what that also points to Is to ask ourselves the question And I'm addressing this to the government itself What is the cost of governance? Why is it high And why is it rising? And there's a whole lot of things we can do That can help us reduce the cost of governance So in my own estimation The outgoing government or the administration Might not have the courage to do that Because it takes courage To deal with the cost of governance in Nigeria That the incoming government will have that opportunity To deal with that Within the first six months of coming to office At least before this year elapses And while we are selling Particularly over the years I serve in the presidential committee To look at this issue Way back in 2013-2011 All right We made some recommendations To Nigeria's president, then president Jonathan So we also have the Honours of Air Report The Honours of Air Committee's report Let Nigeria go back to those two reports And see specific recommendations made To reduce the cost of governance If we do that Then the government will not need to Borrow hot money from central bank To deal with its current expenditure But that is what is paying out here So if we are able to deal with that Then we won't need to borrow so much And also borrow in such manner That can trigger more inflation That's the real challenge there But if government borrows To deliver infrastructure Nigerians and stakeholders I am all for it If we borrow to deliver infrastructure I'm all for that Okay Because that's the major thing That enables economic activities So that's what I see about that Yes But what is going on We don't have the courage to deal with that Right now There is strong message We should repeatedly put across Whether it's taking up some time Is that that issue will be addressed Frontally Cost of governance Okay Dr. Adedipa It's been a very enlightening run With you this morning And we'd like to thank you so much For coming on the show To enlighten us On Matters that ordinarily were Breaking our hearts We've had so much courage By talking to you But whatever needs to be done I'm sure the Nigerians who are listening Will have to take the reins Of leadership themselves Because leadership or governance Depends on how the people are actively involved in it Thank you so much for coming on the show this morning Thank you for having me And very, very rest of your day Okay We've been talking with Dr. Biodun Adedipa An economic consultant He is the founder and chief consultant At BAA Consult And we've been talking about the Debt profile of Nigeria But we dealt even more on the budget of Nigeria Because everything hangs on that How are we going to grow or otherwise Because of that budget And should we be alarmed or not Those are the things we were discussing You can also join the conversation And follow us on our social media platforms Everywhere For now, we'll take a break for the news Stay with us