 While you're still on to the breakfast in Plasti via Africa, we're looking at the fests major conversation here and the challenges of our democracy. While Nigeria officially became a democracy in October 1960 when she gained independence from Britain. So far it's been 23 years of uninterrupted democracy but political pundits say that Nigeria's democracy has been fragile and fluctuated since independence. Now in a recent event a former president Goodluck Jonathan said Nigeria is gradually moving towards dictatorship. He said looking at the states and so on were derailing towards a quasi-fascist form of government. But democracy is not only about winning elections alone it's about accommodation. This is his thoughts. Also a senior advocate of Nigeria Femi Faleno during the MBA conference this quarter about democracy as Pluto Creasy a civilian regime far from democracy. In the same vein you also have Professor Wole Shoenka who says our democracy has been desecrated and replaced with dynastic rule through the back door. 23 years after the return to civil rule what are the issues? We have Dele Faro to me a lawyer and political activists right here and he joins the conversation. Dele thank you so much for being part of the breakfast. Good morning thank you for having me. Let's set off with let's go straight to the crux of the conversation. What are your thoughts on you know the consents that have been raised by stakeholders I mean you look at a former president of Nigeria you also look at Professor Wole Shoenka and you look at the likes of all the other stakeholders that have raised your concern. A lot of time people play catch-up and I must say that practically all the gentlemen that you have referenced were merely playing catch-up. In one of my books I call it laugh through the tears and I was speaking specifically to General Kowari's second term. Nigeria has already entered a fascist state in democratic war and that democracy put it in quotation. I better describe it as demon-crazy because ordinarily when you talk to a democracy you will be speaking to the capacity of citizens to elect those who should govern them. The Nigerian has really ever been treated as a citizen particularly since we lost what are called democracy in 1966 which was essentially the last time the Nigerian had the right to self-determination. So it's been one form of lie pretending to be a democracy and you actually have to embrace that lie before you call the Nigerian a citizen. So yeah it is only in fascist states that you have the kind of things that would happen in Zaria at least in Cardinal state where the army paid for with citizens taxes would kill citizens. I think it was 430 that the judicial panel of inquiry in Cardinal confirmed death because a chief of army staff Bratai had his convoy disturbed. So 430 Nigerians by government own account were murdered. October 2020 Nigerians in unknown numbers up to date peaceful protesters waving flags were murdered at the door gate and state apparatus was deployed to cover what happened. A governor came on here to lie blatantly about what transpired. The Nigerian army refused to submit to the jurisdiction of the judicial panel of inquiry and we are talking about a democracy. Nigeria is already a fascist state pretending to be a democracy. Now I believe it was Fala Noda spoke to Nigeria democracy becoming a plutocracy. It didn't become a plutocracy only recently. It's been like that for a while but for you to see just how bad the situation is you have to look to the elections particularly in a kitty and on those states. On those states more tragic because you have an essay and as a governor there was an essay and contesting against him and yet they coined the phrase the Bossebe. So it is not today that Nigeria became a plutocracy is a graduate descent into the mess that we are in but it's been on for a while and then professor showing us spoke to the erection of family monarchy. Look we know and it is a notorious fact that every governor becomes interested in who succeeds him and the state we live in Lagos state is particularly notorious for these are normally you today have a situation where we can speak legitimately and credibly to the erection of an hegemony that has lasted the last 23 years where one man determined who his successors would be and enforces his will by a mixture of money, force anything it takes to enforce his will a man has effectively captured the state. So when you speak to the erection of monarchy each and every one of these things that these eminent men have spoken through as tearing us in the face on a daily basis these are nothing new it just so happens that all of a sudden we're speaking to it as though it is something new it's nothing new all these are already with us. All right but if all this already with us I mean over time some persons have questioned whether or not Nigeria is a democracy which is still part of the issue that we're trying to consider what are the challenges and what exactly is wrong with us but you know some people would say that the Nigerian democracy have actually suffered you know from the military I mean the civil war and the dominance of the military era. So I'd like to ask you do you think that the democracy challenge or the challenges of a democracy is a fundamental issue in the sense that we didn't get it from the inception correctly or it's you know a trickle down from the civil war and the military era that has constantly you know crippled it and made it very fragile. Well I am a lawyer by training but I have also hung around construction engineers and I know that the type of building you seek to erect would determine the kind of foundation that you would be in and my people have a proverb I think it is sausage in this situation they say you say to the cripple that the load on your head is lopsided so it says to you why are you talking about the load on my head why don't you focus on my legs which are already lopsided from the beginning. I've been issue our problems are many but one of the biggest of our problems is our fascination with using words that do not mean what the original coiners of the world intended for it. In every democracy the most important of the ingredients is the right to self determination. In the country that right to self determination begins with the capacity to make your own constitution which tells you how you want to be governed. I imagine that there will be a blockbuster deal that association or a new