 Good morning and thank you for joining us on the breakfast here on Plus TV Africa. We would of course first of all apologize for starting off a little late but notwithstanding we still have a lot of these very interesting conversations coming your way this Thursday morning. I am Osao Ghi. And I am Annette Felix. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. I'm all going to invite Mr Gidi Akinrutimi, a legal practitioner. Good morning. Thank you for being here. Fine. Thank you. So we're starting the conversation this morning regarding Kemi Adoshu. We know the whole scandal regarding her NYC certificate, the whole gate scandal, you know, over her alleged forger of NYC certificate. Now the court has ruled on this yesterday, they say that she basically did not need to have an NYC certificate or even have a first degree to vie for any political office in Nigeria or even become a minister. She's reacted to this now. So we now need to dissect this court judgment with our legal expert. Mr Akinrutimi, what do you make of this judgment, you know, that the court issued yesterday? All right. Thank you for having me. Good morning to you all. My name is Gidi Akinrutimi and I'm now the speaker. I want to say that yesterday I already called the government in part. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Go ahead. I already called the government in part and I can say that what we called actually said like you are going to let me tell us this morning is that she may not tend to have first degree certificate or an NYC probably an exception of this certificate to be appointed as a minister. Let me take us to section one for the sixth, section one for the seventh order of the 1999 constitution, which is our laws and guidelines, the refrigeration, our ground law. That is, there is no place, there is no partner section in that constitution. That says that before you can be appointed as a minister, you must probably tend to kind of Yes, go ahead. Yeah, you can actually tend to your NYC certificate in order to get your first degree certificate before you can be appointed. However, you also have to look at the NYC certificate. So the NYC act, we have the, I have to have it said. I look at section nine, section 12, brother of the time, section 17, article in section 12, it's a production of certificate for employment purposes. That means if you are, if you are for any employment purposes in Nigeria, you must tender either your certificate of NYC or your exception certificate. That means you are exempted from participating because of the age limit. That is above 30. When you are above 30, you need not tender the exception certificate. I don't think that the fact that because my health, that means that there are only just a title, that would have been a record. We have that because, we have that since the 1979 constitution, which on this course, has had a card, if my minister graduated, he does not recognize dual citizenship. And at that time, the minister was a British citizen. So when he graduated, because he does not recognize anything like dual citizenship. So at that time, he was not even in Nijibu. He even participated in Nijibu in Nigeria. And he, she, she, she have done that. If Nijibu has done that, then Nijibu will have to cry according to the, to be, to be, to be dictated of the judgment. So many, at the time he graduated from the, from the university, the constitution did not recognize anyone like that. Any, any, any participation in studies. So the constitution, the only thing would require the student, the sufficient amount of time. So when I read the judgment, I, it was a relief to so many people in Yathura who are willing to participate, join the government of this position or to participate in one area and the other in Nigeria. So I, I would say that there, there, there would be a need of clarity in that judgment to the extent, because three years ago, the constitution was, that constitution was forced. Yeah. So, so, so Mr. Akinro to me, so is there still a, is there still a challenge? Yeah, can we hold on? Mr. Akinro to me. All right. So I want us to hold on Mr. Akinro to me. Can you hold on? If you can hear us, can you, can you hold on? Yeah, okay. All right. Jide, can you hear us this morning? Okay, great. So I want us to take it step by step. All right. You've spoken or you've broken down what the ruling meant and of course gone back all the way to 1999 constitution. The controversy remains with regards to, you know, the aspect of forgery. So with this court ruling now, does it mean that whether she forged a certificate or not, she has no case to answer? I think this is a civil suit, not a criminal action. So the court is only limited to the elite brought before you. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Go ahead. So I think this is a civil suit, meaning it's left for the government to do an action that could not have been against her. So forgery is a criminal action on the throne. And the court is not a civil suit brought by the plaintiffs, which is a criminal action on the court. But what I just saw is that the court didn't even copy anything on that intro. The court didn't even add anything on the issue of forgery. But the court judgment reveals that she did not even submit anything like a certificate. Okay. So it's only left for the government to get to go outside, to ask how they should have acquired a certificate. But it's not accepted or appealed because you're denied that. She didn't even pass it. She didn't even demand any exception. Okay. So that is the point now. Okay. We understand these facts as you've explained it. They mentioned that the limit for you to even serve the motherland and for the NIC is 30. She was 34 years old at the time when she returned to Nigeria and all of that. So she was even ineligible on the basis of her age. But now that the court and the court ruling did not address forgery at all, it was about if she needed to even have the certificate at all, can there be another suit against her for forgery? Is that something you think is likely to come up? Like I said, if the government didn't intend to follow that, you know, actually she resigned. Yes. Not that there was any action taken against her. She resigned and she took the government to court. Just to clear the air whether she was eligible to be appointed as the minister or not. So now that the court has given judgment, why personally I have not given the suit of the NIC. It's just something I don't like. We need to apply to get the suit of the NIC. Probably in this court, or probably next to the NIC, we can get the suit of the NIC. But as a chance, what he calls the NIC is just the eligibility and not the consent of the criminality involved in that. The allegation from many was that the certificate was even forged. That's the exception certificate. We don't know what's going on in detail. But what I don't feel is that if the government intend to look into this certificate itself, an action can be committed against her. That would be a criminal action. Okay. So in the absence of any criminal action against her for forging an NYC certificate, can Kim Yadong be restored? Or can she take up any political office in the future? My virtue is that we are bound by the rule of law. Except it is a appeal. But as a chance, she can be appointed. She can be appointed. Okay. And I want us to also speak on what the court has interpreted. Does this in any way affect the eagerness of Nigerians to go ahead with the NYC and of course get that certificate? Because if it says that you can be appointed minister without having served the nation through the scheme, do you think this might affect the interest of Nigerians in getting that certificate? Yes. Yes. Some extent. I tend to balance with what the NYC has under the constitution. The NYC has a place in that anyone who intends to start in the office of the constitution, in any way in Nigeria, then he is the one. He must present your certificate, NYC certificate, or rather the expression certificate. However, the constitution itself, in some areas of positions, in the offices, does not state that how. For example, in the case of our parents, the way in which they had been caught then, they were about three-four, and the conscience said, you need to go to school. You do not go to university before you can be eligible to conduct an election. You did not. You can't see that it gets all deconstructed. I want you to have the power to do it. You are a little bit... In the case of Nigeria, as well as Nigeria. So, to me, I think that we need to present those in the office. But in Nigeria, let's come to think of it. I think it cannot really give us more people, but rather have the interest to serve the country. I see the situation that it is a need for us to have a main link of the constitution. I was just going to bring that up, because I think we have agreed that the constitution, which is the grand norm, like you said, takes precedence over every other law act in the country. And so that means that in this case or any other case, the NYSE Act doesn't in any way matter, as long as the constitution has said that any person can be appointed minister, regardless of whether they have gone through the NYSE or not. So, I want you to comment on that situation where, as a graduate in Nigeria, for many people, we have millions unemployed, it's very difficult, it's an uphill task to get a job without an NYSE certificate. These companies would ask you to go get an NYSE certificate and then pay you what's not even up to the minimum wage or to sustain you at the end of the day. But to be appointed in political office in Nigeria, where we know that these people end jumble pay, the law is now saying they do not need to have an NYSE certificate, they do not even need a first degree. I want you to comment on the duplicity of what this is seeming like and then the relevance of the NYSE certificate in the first place. I think the purpose of the NYSE Act, it's what happened in your fourth degree, you can proceed to have the NYSE Act, your NYSE Act, you can have the waitlist now, you can travel down to, as well as, to those who have the kind of interrelations with our IPCC, that is the purpose of studies. And the need is mandated, okay, when you get to the quarterly employment, you won't have that, you should pick a graduate. What I'm saying here, Barry, is that, would we need to amend the law such that if a political office holder does not need an NYSE certificate to hold office, right, then graduates should not need an NYSE certificate to get a job. Do you think that's an amendment we need to make? That is an amendment, that is not going to be, that may be an amendment to the Constitution, that I think, but only what I would be is that there will be no need for graduates to go to NYSE again. Is there a choice as an option? What are you trying to say? There will be a mandatory fee of the university to mobilize your service. You can, as a decline, die on the path, because you're going to have to look at it. It is not mandatory to present a certificate for employment. For the public office act, like you have said, I think it is mandatory, because the public should go. Alright, so the amendment that you are asking, that should be made, is that public officers should have gone through the NYSE before they can be appointed in a position as high as a minister. Is that what you are asking that should be implemented? Or are you saying that Nigerians shouldn't necessarily have gone through the NYSE before they can get jobs in the country? Okay, what I would say is that their amendment should be that if there is a new amendment in the constitution as in line with that of the public officer, that of the minister or any other body, it should be that they should be in mandatory. We should present the NYSE certificate or the exception certificate, looking at the years of graduation as required, because when I talk about the person that voted before even the establishment of the NYSE act, which is applicable to the command minister's seat, however, it should be an amendment to the fact that if we don't, like gladness, that we don't present a certificate for a company to be employed. Yes, sometimes those representatives have not met with them. So they should be that close, although it's not going to be, that is the NYSE act, not the constitution. But whether that is legal or not, not to present a certificate for service, if it's a desire. Yes, because we can even see that, even those who are posted to the north, it has caused a lot of damages, a lot of lies. So I think there is a real amendment to the constitution, I don't know, the NYSE act also. They should balance that amendment. Yes, they should be. But we even so wish, because we have an intention to have electricity in the country. I think that would be better for us. Okay. Yes, we do understand your points, Mr. Gide. Yes, definitely. Hopefully we can get your thoughts on this because we know that Kim Yadoshu has published her response to this on her social media page on Facebook. She went on to say that this has vindicated her, and just like you said, she also mentioned that this cut ruling would make way for people in diaspora who are interested in running for political office in Nigeria, but have not been able to do so because of this requirement. So as the matter unfolds, we'll definitely bring legal practitioners like you to weigh in on the judgment. Thank you very much, Barista, for your time on the breakfast. Thank you very much. I appreciate the presentation. This brings back the conversation, and there was a few months ago that there was a conversation about the relevance of the NYSE. Should it be scrapped, should it stay? And I think a couple of people, a member of the National Assembly had said that they would prefer that it stays. But you asked, what's the relevance if you can't get a job in Nigeria without having gone through the NYSE but you can be made minister? Yes, that's unfair. It just breaches all the principles of fairness, equity, and justice that we're talking about. So it's either it becomes a requirement across board, minister, governor, senator, president, everybody. Or it is completely made optional. So you either choose to do the NYSE or not. And that's the conversation that we should move to next because it doesn't really, really make sense. And I think, you know, I agree that there should be amendments to the constitution with regards to the educational requirements for public office. That's it, Asagi. We should. We definitely should. If we are serious. And yes, I understand people who have made jokes and said, oh, you know, you had a PhD in government at one time. And all that, you know, those nonsense statements. But I feel that we should, as a country, if we're serious about moving forward, you have amendments. Let, you know, anybody who is vying for office as high as president, as high as, you know, senator, as high as governor, should at least have reached a particular educational level. I mean, that's it. It doesn't bother you that to even be a security guard in the company, you would be asked for your certificates. But then a court will rule that a minister, someone who makes law makers, people who make laws, who represent the people would, you know, does not need to have a certificate, does not need to have a first degree. And that's, I think that's one of the reasons why we're not moving forward. Because you have people who are not well read, who are not exposed to things. And you make them our leaders. I believe that, you know, while we're talking about the unfairness, it should not be that NYC should be scrapped or not be a requirement. It should be that people who are police office holders should have the highest educational requirements, should have all the certificates that are important and they should be checked so that you don't go and forge it like Kim Adol should did. So we will get, we need to take the news. It's coming up in less than a minute. We will get back into this conversation hopefully before we end. There's some other angles, you know, that I hope that we can also throw in. I remember the NEPA certificates, statements that were made in 2015. I also have seen, you know, NDLEA recruitment list and it doesn't look good. But we'll talk about it, you know, when we come back. So let's take a short break. When we come back, the news at 9 a.m. comes up and then we have a little bit more for you this morning. It's an extended version of the Breakfast Day on Plus TV Africa. Stay with us.