 Really not going too much into the fear of death, as much as it's saying, it means that there's a fear of death. Like when you were watching the movie and something seems to happen to a body or this and that, but it's really the fear of life, or the fear of God. It's the same title of the fourth obstacle, the fear of God. That goes way down under that, because it seems like the mind is identified with the body, and afraid of dying. Really, it's talking about the third sentence. Terpega says this is the darkest veil upheld by the belief in death and protected by its attraction. So that the seed mind is attracted to death. It doesn't seem like I'm attracted to death, you know, on the surface. It doesn't seem like there's an attraction to death. It seems like there's a fear of dying. But there's really an attraction to it, and a fear of God. As you go back, this is titled The Attraction of Death. Is it talking about death with the body? No. It's not the death of the belief in God. Right, so that's what we have to go into this very quickly. So there's the attraction of death, and then if you go back a little bit earlier, two pages earlier, there's the attraction of pain, of guilt. You would say that this is not talking about the attraction of death of the body? Right. When it's using the word death, it's not talking about death of the body. What death is that talking about? Well, that's where we take it down, in the sense that the ego is death. It seems attractive to the seed mind. In other words, the ego seems to offer something of value to it. It's taking it out of the physical realm. In other words, death of the body, which is the way I've always grown up and conceived this death. And now, the Course is saying that if you're wrong, mind it. You're attracted to the presence of ego. Right, because the ego is not who I am, so it's like the death of who I am if I identify with the ego. That's like death. Oh, wait a minute. Now that's different again, Matt. What is the death actually referring to? Is it the presence of the ego, or is it the death of the self, the real self, or the refusal to see the real self? It's the attraction of the ego, in the sense that it gets played out on the surface, in the sense that the mind ends up seeking a lot of things to make its life better and its kingdom better, and really it's falling right into the hands of the ego. Which actually is one of the same. Yeah, so that's the thing about the attraction of guilt. I mean, who here has an experience, pleasure, and who here hasn't? The whole thing, you keep the ego. That feels the attraction to pain. On the surface, it doesn't seem like that's what it is. It's like that movie last night that we watched where, you know what I'm saying? That making money was just the beginning part of it, like you gotta know how to spend it. And then, what is it? It wasn't for, right? You have to have money for excitement. Yeah, so that's really when we go, when you start to trace it in, that's where it's the attraction of guilt and pain and death, but it's certainly not seen that way on the surface. That's what's so great about the court is Jesus just unveiled the easiest possible to seek for pleasure without finding pain. It's helpful. Metaphysically, if I don't see the connectors about maximizing one, you gotta take a vote. I would rather choose. I'm changing my decision here. I'm going for the mirror. It's a whole new menu in terms for the, I'm thinking of it. He said, she said movie where, that's such a classic movie. But I think, James, one of the things, and you know, I know we're going deeper here, but just at a very beginner level, take the attraction to death away or the fear of death of the body, because that's what we think we are. And it changes everything right away to want to look deeper. If that in fact isn't real, then we really need to look at what it's because, if you ask people, I'm not sure where we can go with this, but it's just a thought, but if you ask people, would you want to live forever, they'll say no. So there's no attraction to eternity in this type of living. I mean, how much pleasure can you have before it gets boring? How much, you know what I'm saying? Some people have said that, but they see it as immortality of the body. They're seeing it as immortality of the body, right? They do want this. And they want just the positive aspects, and they want it. Right. And they want the body not to age. Well, yeah, that's true. I mean, saying otherwise would be the point. So, there's something to that. It could get the pleasure of being 2 billion years old, but maybe not. But there's something to that in where our minds are. Yes, that's defining life. Life is defined in physical terms. Right. Then you have boredom and you have excitement, you know? Well, there are people, I know Deepak Chopra in number, when we're talking about life extension, and there's some good physical ideas in a lot of those teachings. However, when you... Ageless body time with the mind. Right. When you get down to thinking life is of the body and wanting to extend it to 100, 110, 120 years, again, the course goes level above, and it says, oh, you want peace of mind. You want to wake up and remember your father. That's life. Yeah, that's life. Have it for as long as you want, but just have that. And life after death. A lot of people will kind of take what my father and I used to say. People think they're going to go have lunch with their friends after death. They got another thing coming, you know, because he doesn't believe in anything. Well, there's something much greater than that, but that's the concept of life after death. The light and then my grandmother seeing my grandmother and seeing my kids. And again, we're back to, in the life after death, we're back into the same attraction and substitutions as we had here. But isn't that a lot of what the new thing is about? I mean, Dave, it's like the perfect world on the other side where there are your loved ones in everything that's harmonious but it's only the positive. That's all that's there. It's a real, it's a real draw. That's their, their, their attraction. Yeah. Again, that would be the word paradise on earth. Jehovah Witnesses talk about, you know, 144,000 and paradise like the Garden of Eden, which is, again, seem to be informed. And the Course just says, no, that the world was made as an attempt against God. It's like the world is kind of saying, you can't enter here, God. And so that, those, this really goes beyond those kind of concepts. What the Course does talk about is the real world, which you could, you could think of it symbolically as once you come to the place of clarity where you just have one box, so to speak, that we talk about, then, in a sense, everyone is there with you. Because the differences, okay, including the differences of time, I mean, it's, it's tempting to the ego lens to say, well, I'm advancing spiritually, but so-and-so, and it seems to be a time lag, and it seems to be like the Consciousness 2150 in the book. It seems very linear and spread out before your rancher. Very spread out. And the Course is just going, time lapse, if you come to the state of right-mindedness, then you see that, oh, that was just my misperception that evolution was going this way. Again, time and space have to be questioned. So you see that in right-mindedness that everyone is there. And that's a very deep concept. So Jesus gives a lot of metaphors to step up to that. One of them he talked about in the Course is charity, in terms of the Bible. And he says charity is like perceiving your brother as if he was much farther along in his evolution than he really appears to be in the world. And Jesus says, again, you can tell that this is a time concept. Perceiving your brother as if he was much farther along than he seems to be, that's still, you can see there's an aspect of time in the concept of charity. But he says it's very beneficent. Because again, you can relate to him in a very loving way. You know, you aren't so tied into the behaviors and the tributing like, well, this one's got a long ways to go or something. You see past that. So that's what's so neat about the Course is it gives you a concept even that can be really helpful. If the top rung just seems to... I don't know if it's my thought or if it's going to... I've got a lot of concepts. Even if you can transition in a mind, you know, to go to this place. And the strength of being in that space, it's not about... it wasn't about individuals. But it's real. We're all part of that. Death is of the body. And that's the first, that's because it seems so much that the body seems to be sanctified, it seems to be well, it seems to be born, it seems to die. To loosen it to more of like, oh, death is wrong, mind is in it. Death is that ego purpose. Then that's pulling it off the screen for this people. Seeing death in the mind instead of on the screen. You know, people have asked questions a lot of times recently in Adrian, even a woman was saying, my husband was recently died. Where is he? I don't want to know. And he started to work a little bit towards the idea that where, when you ask the question, there's the question, where is his mind? Where concept is the concept that the assumption underneath is his place? Is that the mind has a location? You know, we talked about private mind to the end, we have private mind, get under it. Under the question, where is the mind, is the assumption of place? Space and time and place is just the concept that we're not in the mind of Christ. You see, it's like a total... Well, there goes that question. See how that question just dissolves what's the need about coming together and just examining assumptions and concepts. You get to the point where the question will see there will be an experience in which question to see. When you were in that real powerful experience of Jesus there wasn't a question, it was a total joy in receiving. We talked to them, they had some of them revelatory experiences that we're not in the mind of Christ.