 Okay, so I'd like to welcome the dream-weaving architects who are participating in this process, the representatives of the Vastav Shilpa Foundation, the presenters, and also everybody who's come to just either here or online. So that's why we're having to be careful about using the microphones just so that people online can hear us too. So this morning, as you'll see, we've got three presentations, Helmut, Srivadsar and Julio, with hopefully a break in between. So we've got an hour for each presenter, and hopefully that will allow around 10 or 15 minutes, at least for questions, from the dream-weaving architects. So during the presentation, I'll be just ringing the bell at 30 minutes, at 45 minutes, and then again at 50 minutes, just because there's no clock in here, so to help the presenter keep an eye on the time. It's not telling them to finish. So when the presenter has finished, if you want to ask questions for the dream-weaving architects, just raise your hands, and David will try his best to keep the names. And we appreciate that 10 minutes or 5 minutes or 15 is probably not long enough for all the questions that may be in the room. So the dream-weaving architects will find that they've got a sheet on their seat, where you can write down any additional questions for the presenters. We will then take those back, and collate them at the end of the day, and ask the presenters to send the information, and we'll share that with all of the architects' team. Okay, so I think that is all the practicalities for people who don't know the venue, the toilets are just at the back, female on the right and male on the left. So yeah, I think we can get straight into the first presenter. So the first session is Helmut, and Helmut is a graduated architect with 12 years professional practice in planning and architecture in Germany, planning and designing universities and medical schools. He's been in Oroville since 1979, helping to manifest Savitri Bavan and Grace, amongst other buildings. And in consultation with Mr. Bilinger, a German traffic specialist, he produced a basic concept document on mobility for Oroville. So welcome Helmut. Mobility comes first, because I was always convinced that town planning starts with a concept form of mobility, because not the building as we thought always is the forerunner in town planning, but actually the definition of mobility in my view. And in the 90s, I became very much aware that our institutions, they were called the development group and Orofuture and so on, didn't give much importance to mobility. They think we just go on with designing building and placing them somewhere, which sometimes I feel still happens today. So in 2001, I approached a traffic designer, a traffic consultant in Germany, Mr. Bilinger, who was known for his soft approach to mobility, aware of all the aspects connected with it. So not somebody who just wants to create a very smooth and fast running for motorized transport. And at that time, 2001 and 2002, I even presented it to the community several times. I remember at that time even using overhead foils, because the digital development was not such that one could do it in a better way. This is more than 20 years ago. I hope I have shocked you enough with this little caricature with this vision of the galaxy actually, because Connard Circus in Delhi, for instance, everybody has to use it. And when we still think about the crown being a road, then we have to be aware that everybody who moves within the town, if not several times, at least once, will use the crown in order to go somewhere. And this will lead to pretty unbearable conditions on the crown, especially when we look now with 3,000 inhabitants. And what will happen when we have 50,000? The next piece, when they invented the car more than 100 years ago, Tampinas dreamt of the drive-in city. One of the proponents was Le Corbusier, keep the land as untouched as possible, have big machines to live in, and everything connects with highways, and the people can drive in the basements, and everybody has a car, and so on, and so on. And public space is actually reduced to nature and parks. Next, please. This led to a couple of attempts. This is Brasilia about 60 or 80 years ago, which is just a celebration of motorized traffic. And architects and designers marveled about it, but they forgot actually one big thing and that is city life. As you can imagine, this is the center of Brasilia. There's not much chance for city life. There's not much chance if you can move in your armored vehicle, but casual contacts with people and so on are hardly impossible. So next, slowly people realized that traffic is quite a danger for city life, everywhere in the last 50, 60, 80 years. In the city centers, traffic gets reduced wherever it is possible because people realized that the street, although it was always considered as a terrible thing and unsafe and so on, has a certain function. For instance, the child that goes from home to school, the way in between has an educational value. I remember I grew up in a city in Germany of about 70,000, but walking to school was always a big adventure and I realized how people act and how people behave. And I remember one special point when a shopkeeper who happened to make musical instruments invited me in and started fiddling the violin for me, for instance. So this is just listed what urban motorized traffic can do to street life, the endangerment, it isolates people because they can't really talk to each other, the social fabric, the beauty of it. Many people here in Orville complained very much, why are there everywhere cars now? Why do we need to have them parking everywhere and so on? The noise, the pollution, the global change, the waste and the waste of public funds, we know that in New York I think 35% of the city area, very expensive real estate is actually be used for parking, next. So public space is not only reduced to parks and recreational areas, next. But I said there's much which can happen on the streets, although the street got condemned so much as not safe and so on and so on. But here very informal contacts can happen and so on and so on. And this is something which has to be protected in the city, but it must be safe, of course. You must be able to let down your guard, otherwise you will be overrun by cars or things like this. Next. So this is the complete absence of cars. A lot of possibilities can happen on streets. We still call the crown a road. I'm always very much taken aback by it. It still happens today. People talk about the crown road. And my knowledge of the English language, actually, road has quite a negative connotation. I don't know whether I'm right in this. So especially in the tropics, when there is shade, the space between buildings is very important. A lot can happen. Not everything has to happen within buildings. And if we design our city accordingly and the crown, I would be very happy. Next, I'll look at the medieval townships, how the absence of endangering motorized traffic. This old friendship between street and building can happen because the building can come close. Whereas when you have a road, highly polluting, noisy, and so on, the buildings want to move away from it. Next. Yeah, this leads to these wonderful places which are tourist attractions in medieval towns. Next. But unfortunately, the situation in our cities, very much in Indian cities also, although that is very much on the brink also. This is a shared space. When I look at Ghandis and Nehru Street in Ponday, it's absolutely amazing what can happen there because the battle between pedestrians and cars is not yet won by the car, but they fight each other. So something could be done there and it would be quite an interesting street. Next. Yeah, this is the situation of pedestrians between cars and cities. Next. So the mother quoted, inside the town, there will be no car traffic. Small vehicles, electrically moved, running at a speed of about 15 kilometers per hour, will be at the disposal of the inhabitants for going around. But then she added, four years later, we do not know. Next. So it's a little bit, this controversy. One can have a township like this, which you find here in India very often the outskirts of Chennai. You know where the high-rise building move away from the roads with fast-moving traffic. Or you can have something which is depicted on the left side, an environment which is designed according to, I think Louis Kahn calls it, foot and eye. And this very much an optimal space and a safe space for all people and for children. And he adds, if a city is good for all people and for children, then it's a good city in general. Next. So this was the brochure we produced with Billinger from Stuttgart, Germany in 2001. Next. When I went to him and informed him about our plans and our plan, this were a couple of remarks which came immediately by him. He says, the size is absolutely optimal for pedestrians. If you consider the crown as an inner ring, it is attracting traffic. He saw that immediately. The outer ring road, the development of the outer ring road must have a priority. He said rather purchase land there than land in the inner city because they are still cheap. In the inner cities, people speculate. This is still valid today. And under no case might make the crown attractive for cars by institutionalizing parking spaces. He thinks at that time already, although it was not in the general discussion, that there shouldn't even be separate lanes for cars, motorized traffic and for pedestrians because it would give a license to drive fast for the car drivers at a space which is obviously reserved for them. Then he said, come up with ideas. He said, streets in the middle of the town, in the middle of the crown are no problems at all. The main thing, the only thing we have to do, we have to leave a passage of three meters. Even if there's only a passage of three meters, people go slower, let the others pass and go on when it's free again. Then, no traffic infrastructure. And this is, I come back to that when I think about our roundabout at the solar kitchen. That is something which is at the periphery of towns. It shouldn't be on the crown. And if you watch people trying to cross over from to the solar kitchen, the poor pedestrians, they don't know how to handle the roundabout. So I consider this a major mistake we have done in the past couple of years to introduce a roundabout at the solar kitchen. Then he emphasized public transport. We should start public transport in 2001 even on a very small scale so that people get used to it and get probably dissuaded to buy a car or buy motorbikes and so on. If it's reliable enough and if it's five minutes walking, they can reach public transport within 20 minutes and so on. And then he says we have to advertise a little bit that our wheel wants to be a car-free town. So everybody should come to know that. It's not just open, open for everybody to go in. Next? Carefree and car-free. So if you traverse all the way from the outer ring road to the outer ring road, it will be two and a half kilometers. So pedestrians need maybe 35 minutes to walk through. 35 minutes. It's not much. Next? Yeah, this shows a little bit because you all know pondicherry and the distances. And normally you walk a lot within pondicherry in the same scale all wheel and pondicherry. So it's not really a big deal for pedestrians to manage. So that's why Billinger was very clear if you are going into this direction, make it a pedestrian city. Don't allow these armored vehicles which can wound pedestrians very easily because they don't have anything to fend them off into the town. Next? Yeah, this was the general pattern. He thought about establishing the outer ring road, the outer circle as much as you can. Leave every traffic as possible on the outer ring road. Restrict any access to the crown. At that time he still also called it crown road. So people can go in here, but they are not allowed to reach the crown. There must be barriers. There must be absolutely clear. They can, for instance, reach their residences. But if they want to use public transport, then they use the crown and go where they want to go. They want to use their motorbike or car that can go outside and reach their working space, for instance. So there's an equidistance. If you are living between crown and outer ring, you have the choice to use your car and your motorbike, travel the longer distance, or go to public transport and use the crown. Then he thinks very much about exchange areas. For people from outside, these exchange areas are meant that people leave their cars and can shift to public transport or to non-polluting electrical taxis. Or they can rent bikes there to move around in this relatively small area of the city, inner city. He also thinks that there should be supermarkets concentrated so that the load transport into the city gets reduced and could think about that. So again, here the crown can be reached because emergency transport and all these kind of things, you can't keep them out there. They are always allowed. They can go to the crown, which is for permitted traffic only, for ambulances and things like this. And for pedestrians and cyclists and small, very small and slow moving taxis, for instance. There are examples for this. If you happen to go to Switzerland, there are a couple of towns, one of them is Cermat. It's completely car-free. There's a railway going into the city, into the middle of the city, which is very good. But all the cars coming, they have to stay on the outside. They are packed houses. And then they shift to electric taxi or to public transport, also electric. Or they walk. I have a couple of pictures, but I didn't integrate it here. It works very well and people are normally pretty happy as pedestrians and the car drivers get used to it. Next. So that was his intention. He wanted a system with a centrifugal effect for traffic. In no case like this, no through traffic, which happens now, but keep the through traffic on the periphery. Next. Yeah, this was his design on these exchange nodes. Just to give them an idea. This is the outer ring, actually open for all traffic. Then there are big parking places, buses, cycle, renting stations, things like this, where people can enter the town. And there are facilities, Bazaar and public facilities, he called it. Just for the understanding of it. Next. So and public transport could also reach this exchange node. We have something like this at the visitor center, if you want. Start it. It could be here. So people keep their cars here and exchange. Next. The outer ring road, of course, is a problem because it has to be planned very carefully. Land has to be exchanged, bought, purchased, and so on and so on. He said, but we almost have one third of it already in the existing roads and we have to integrate them. But we have to do whatever we can to close that circle of the outer ring road. Next. Yeah, this is traffic at the periphery, non-disturbing traffic within the city, pedestrians, cyclists, rickshaws, electric taxis, whatever. The only motor vehicles within the city for people with reduced abilities, special permissions for delivery and removal for public transport, and whoever goes in there has to adapt not to endanger pedestrians. And individual motor cities are completely forbidden. In Zermatt, this example, I studied a bit. People have no individual cars within the city, so they leave them in their parking at the periphery, and even the police and the public services have slow-moving electric cars. It's very interesting. Next. Yeah, these are a couple of definitions. Next. So it is more or less according to this pyramid give pedestrians and cyclists public transport the priority and the rest comes at the bottom of it. Next. So make life for pedestrians easy and short, a little longer for the cyclists, and very long if necessary, doesn't play much of a role for the car motorized people. Next. So pedestrians are very vulnerable. So some kind of speed management has to happen. Next. How can it happen? It can happen through traffic signs. We have many traffic signs. It shows 25, and it's meant to be restricted to 25 kilometers per hour, but some people think it is a national highway number 25 or something like that. So and we can reduce it through planning, which is very important I feel, avoiding through traffic, allowing only necessary traffic, emphasize public and transport and encourage pedestrians and cyclists, and restrict the speed, especially when you think about the crown to to design. Don't make it appear like a racing course between solar kitchen and and our car you have something like this and I'm living close by there and I know that for instance, youth at 10 o'clock at night, they start racing competitions, which they wouldn't be able to do at the east coast road or anywhere else in India, actually. But it happens. So in position, so through signals to planning and design, we should concentrate on planning and design. Next. Yeah, speed management is so important because it shows in this range of slow moving traffic, you have maybe only three to five percent of fatalities, but it after 40 it goes up like this, you know, next. So signage, this is a, this is from Germany. There they found out if they remove all this, people would drive much more carefully and avoid traffic accidents. Next. So this is also an example. This actually is a is a horizontal speed breaker. And the nice thing is that it allows trees. Next. Yeah, this is a cut out of Paul's proposal for the bliss forest passage. And when I saw it, I thought the crown has a length of four and a half kilometers and designers should welcome opportunities to give a certain variety on that big stretch. And I thought the passage to the bliss forest could be such an opportunity. And I was not totally against it. And I was a bit disappointed that it didn't give any reaction because a city lives on history, actually. If people point out, oh, that was the conflict in 2020 about the bliss forest, look how they, how cleverly they solved it or something like that. So just with a preconceived mind to reject things, I find not a good idea. But I would definitely oppose if the infrastructure is laid in such a meandering way. But otherwise streets, they could easily fork out like this. Why not? Next. Now these are attempts which, which I just photographed when I came across them. It is all meant to reduce fast moving of cars. Next. I don't want to say that these are all good examples, but it might give you impulses. Next. Next. So public traffic. This is from Istanbul. If it's slow moving, doesn't endanger pedestrians. So they can live together somehow. Next. But of course, the crown could also in certain stretches look like this. Why not? As long as there's not much development going out, definitely it can also later be changed into something else. Next. Now shared space is very much discussed, not to give preference to motorized traffic, for instance, by separating lanes. It has to be careful separating areas for pedestrians, separating areas for traffic, because everybody will claim his right. Here that is my, my area here I drive, can drive as fast as I want. Speed adapted to pedestrians and what is very important is mixed use, mixed of working, living, recreation of everything. Attractive public transport and an attractive pedestrian environment which, which they find inviting and enjoyable. It's very important. These designers must think about that very much. Next. Here, this is an example of shared space. At the end of it, you can see there's a gate. So these areas, they are marked. People have to pass through a gate and are very much aware. This is not the car driver. This is not the spacement for me to drive fast. You can see this, the texture of the pavement and so on and so on. It's all meant to, to not, not to encourage fast driving and it works pretty well. You see the children and the mothers feel quite, quite okay about it. Next. This is the same place. So there are even cafes and all kind of life taking place and so on. Next. And there are lots of design proposals. If you go into the internet, I leave it to you to give a judgment on it. Next. So this is one of these gates I mentioned. That this certain, for instance, the entry to the crown could be marked with gates like this. So that people are really aware. Now I'm entering into a special area. Next. Yeah, when we designed Santé in that brochure that was in 2012, I think, that's how we do the crown. You see? It didn't consider this to be a road, but a meandering space with different textures on the pavement with trees, narrow passage, wide passage, even parking spaces and so on. Something which by design doesn't encourage racing. Next. Yeah, this I mentioned before. This is our roundabout at the solar kitchen. I think it would be better if it looked somewhat like on the right side. Thank you. Great. So we have about 20 minutes for questions. So as these sessions are primarily to sort of inform the architects who are taking part in dream weaving, we'll open to questions from those. Just to say for the wider community, there will be opportunities to be giving inputs later after these sessions. But so if any architects have questions, please could you put your hands up? And David will take names. So questions for Helmut? Okay. I'll come over with the microphone. So Sophie will. The question of development, phasing and the traffic for construction vehicles. That means we need, apart from the final pictures always, we need to see how to organize it on the way to it and to find ways to have temporary tracks for the lorries and not interfere with the idea and result. We had halfway to grace. We had to unload the bullock cart and carry it up there. This would be a possibility to keep at the exchange notes, keep at the exchange notes, storage space for building materials and so on. It has to be organized a little bit. But of course, lorries have to go in if a construction takes place. But this in many places has been organized by giving it certain times in the morning, seven to 10, and maybe an hour or two in the evening. This works very well, you friend. In Germany, I know many places where it is like this, where lorries can, Weimar places like this, there are 70 townships of 70,000. Even now, township is ready, but big lorries can only go in at certain times, and they know it and they adapt to it. I said that before, and I'm very happy that we have you and Mobility as the first expert session, and you're very clear that the crown, as we all want to see it, can only manifest if we somehow put all the traffic which is needed for a city or which goes around the city, that we offload that onto the outer ring. Only I will not say, you know, this is a process. It's a process. We have to find out how we do that best. Okay, so it's clear that the crown can only exist, coexist with the crown. Do I have it closer or further away? Can only coexist with an outside traffic concept like the outer ring. So now, there it comes into planning now, planning for the future, and looking at the existing. When I look at the outer ring, it cuts through villages where we have presently no jurisdiction to put. We have key forest parts of which have been growing over the last 52 years. So how do we deal with that? That for me would be the main question. So how do we continue to think of the crown as we wanted, but have no solution as yet on how to deal with the traffic which we have to offload somewhere else? So I think, yeah. And that would be my question, because we don't have the green belt to, for example, recreate all of the forest patches which have been created. We don't have it. We always read that whatever the crown and the right of ways occupy only a miniscule percentage of the total city area, but it leaves out the fact that we don't have the green belt to plant again or to create that buffer which is needed. So how do we deal with that questions would be for me? And I'm not asking you to answer that right now, but these are questions which are really important. I can't, but I think a dedicated group in our will must be formed to look into the issue of the wind boat in detail. How can that be done? It doesn't need a perfect circle, not at all in my view, but it has to be done otherwise the conditions on the crown and the pressure on to the crown will become unbearable. Yeah, so that is again no right now. I always compare it with that we are putting the card before the horse a little bit. No, I mean planners can do a lot of things. I'm not so pessimistic about this. It might be difficult. The problem is, look, we don't have this grid iron system of Pondicherry which allows many choices to grow. We concentrate everything onto the crown. Everybody has to use the crown. In fact, we're using it now every day. I use it every day several times. And this has to be addressed. And building your things, it can only be addressed through keeping the traffic outside on the outer ring road. And I'm very unhappy that since 20 years we have not done major efforts. For instance, collecting monies for inner city plots which are overpriced through speculations instead of buying land to realize the outer ring road where it's still cheap or cheaper. It is difficult, but it's a long process for instance, I guess, but it has to be done. I'm taking names, but I actually have a question as well. And this might seem like I'm putting you on the spot helmet, but that's not really my intent. In the plan that you showed for Sante, I had the impression you were showing parking bays. And yet when you gave the list from Billinger, it said no institutionalized parking. Did I misunderstand something? In Sante, there will be emergency transports. The doctors, ambulances, and so on, probably a couple of parking spaces should be provided there. That I wouldn't question. There seem to be a few more than that. It's a hospital. Right. Okay. Yeah. So you see it as an exception. Is the only point? It's an exception, but there are certain permissions, I guess, to be given to certain people, people with inabilities and things like this. Because I think the general point about taxes, taxes, slow moving taxes are possible. Because I think the point about no institutionalized parking is very valid because the more we recognize it, the more it will be. He said no. He didn't talk about a final plan. He said, don't institutionalize now because you only will attract traffic. I know it from construction site. I did in Pondicherry in the beginning. They all asked us, at least you have to have for each flat one parking place underground in a basement. Then the city municipalities, people who had to say something, they forbade this. He said this will only attract traffic. Let the life for car drivers be difficult. Okay. And just to say also questions, obviously, welcome from Basta Schioper Foundation representatives as well. Thank you so much for the excellent presentation. I have three questions. You mentioned just now that everything gets focused on the ground. Don't you think that once the zones and sectors have their intrazonal, sectoral parts, meandering roads, that those also will be used, which don't exist? To give you a concrete example, suppose tomorrow when the city is 80% built and I live in sector two and I want to go to the solar kitchen, I need not go via the ground. I can also take a nice part, cycle path, cycle path through the sectors and so on. Sure. Sure. Right. So my second question is you gave interesting pictures of two types of urban fabric. One was the cities where there is a high density relative to a narrow road. You have the tall buildings on both sides and you feel sort of embraced by the urban fabric. That was one type of pictures. And the other types of pictures you showed were, in my view, more of the suburban type, more broad, a lot of green on both sides. Now, my limited understanding of the crown is that there are both of these types envisaged in the crown, namely the parts of the crown where you have a dense urban fabric on both sides. And then you have in about, I think, three or four places where the city park goes through the crown. Right? I mean, bliss, what is called now bliss is one of those parks. So is it correct? My understanding that we will have both the experiences. Yes. We have the dense buildings around you. We can't think about the finished design. We are just thinking about designing a process. And it will change. Yeah. We have to decide something now and later, but still keep the future in mind as a reference. What we actually want, we have to define our aims. No, but what we actually want, what I was trying to say is that the galaxy itself indicates that there are city parks, or they also sometimes people call them green corridors, which go right from the green belt through the crown to the inner city. So there you would have that type two experience, as per your slides, whereas in other parts of the crown you would have to take my experience. Yes. My last question is there is going to be a phase of construction. A lot of construction activity will happen in the next, I don't know, depends how long we want to take to build the town 10 years, 20 years. During that phase, what would be your recommendation for the construction traffic? Tons of materials being brought in. No, I said this before, what we can somehow pick up on these exchange nodes, that would be perfect. It will not definitely avoid lorries within the township. Now, we have to allow that, they have to go to construction. But we can regulate it at certain times, for instance. There are many examples for that. Because I can't see a lorry coming with 1000 bags of cement, unloading those cement bikes into a... But when they know it, they come between 8 and 10 in the morning, or I don't know it any other time. But they have to know it. Yeah, thanks. I was just wondering that when we talk about the crown, are we talking about, and this is a general question not only for him, but are we talking only about totally non motorized traffic, because when we saw one of the pictures where there was this woman and the child on the bicycle, they were parked some cars around. And I had a feeling that it's possible to have slow moving traffic along with pedestrians, so that there could be... That's why I see even outside of the... I was there when we made the drawing for the health center. And we had kept those parking spaces also because we don't necessarily see town for totally zero mobility by four-wheelers. There could be slow moving people passing by, people with really small children who want to or for whatever reasons. And then they wait because something else is happening on the ground as well. It's not just people moving through. There are things happening around and on the ground that people want to stop and participate in. And this is my question generally, that there will be some. This Billinger didn't design this as a shared space, which came up later. These pictures I have shown with his children in the car, these are shared spaces in Germany, which I came across, which work very well because these are very defined areas. And people sometimes feel to it to be necessary to move in there out of whatever reasons. And they are allowed to do so, but they have to do it at that slow speed. That's all. It's possible. Shared space is possible. It's for us to balance this a little bit. We don't have to go for Billinger's concept in total because actually it's already 20 years old. It was the thinking at that time. No, I just want to build on what Shailaja said because I think in India, actually all our streets are shared spaces. And you gave the idea of Pondicherry. And you said the battle is not yet clear. Who's winning it? But in Auroville, we could make it clear. And it would be an amazing example for the rest of India as well, that we can do shared space in an Indian way, where even some other auto rickshaws and cyclists and now we don't have bullock carts anymore. But even there could be other cows or whatever can be part of that shared space. So I think we could try that as an example and work it out. And you slow down anyway. That's the best part. In India, you just meditate while you drive. And that's the best way to drive. It's basically 15 kilometers. No, you mean the cows? So I have one comment and one question. So the comment is that my expectation of this worrying about how this ring will be used, my expectation is that if we have a very good shared mobility system of electrical small cars, slow and bicycles and these shared mobility systems that exist everywhere today, this ring road, I don't expect it to be used for the traffic inside Auroville. It will end up mainly used for those who want to pass from this side to that side instead of going inside, basically. And so also working on the, it ends up mainly for Aurovillians who want to go to Pondicherry or for the trucks who want to pass by. So the main mobility I think will be internal. That's my feeling and comment. And of course by the time we go for this, those who want to go to Pondicherry might take drones, right? We do not know because the speed of this, of mobility development is unbelievable. It's already coming. There are taxis, there are already flying taxis in some cities. So now the question is, can you bring back again the picture of the green, back again the picture of the green? Yeah, yeah, of course. So I think it's a good, it's a good, this presentation I think would help the dream weaving team because one of the main issues is to how to pedestrianize. Yes, the green, the green path, the green path. It strikes me because the, no, no, no, the picture of the green go, go two, two, three, down, it's 27, yeah, 37. So it strikes me because today we were making the tour around the crown and this comment which I actually agree with both Helmut Antoine is that the crown is a changing experience. And definitely the experience when we are in this zone is very different than when could be diverse than in this zone and then when it goes through the park it could be in some cases close to something like this which is what we have been always speaking about the continuity of the ecosystem and the eco experience while there is still a continuity of the crown. So when we are dealing with these park areas what do you think will be our strategy? Because this is not exactly what we are doing today. I mean I went to there and I have seen full separation between the inner part of the park and the outer part of the park and it becomes part of the dream weaving exercise how to stitch them back, right, how to how to bring them back together. So what would you think our strategy while we are doing it instead of creating a problem and then finding designs ways to to fix it? You know this is very much a planned strip off-road. You can see this pedestrian path, you can see this strip of trees and you can see the runway for the vehicles and so on. It doesn't need to be like this, you know. We can really meander around trees. I don't mind in the passage through these parks. I really don't mind except for infrastructure. For infrastructure should be as short as possible. But traffic can go like this. It doesn't need to be like this because this somehow encourages fast driving already. Let us be clear. Yeah, we have five minutes left before the break. Hello, my question relates to the Indian standard time which is like we are always running five minutes late for everything and there is this phenomenon of rush hour in Auroville. That's at eight o'clock. We have five thousand workers coming rushing to work right now with the population of three thousand Aurovillians. At twelve o'clock we have these three thousand Aurovillians plus a few volunteers and workers rushing to solar kitchen to beat the queue out there. At four thirty people are leaving on mass so during rush hour the relevance of public transport is even more important and in that context this park-like meandering approach and going with it the slow public transport that is that slow time or whatever may not really cater to the needs of the city. This is just a thought. So how would one address these three time slots, the rush hour, large volumes of people. When we have fifty thousand people living in Auroville as residents we would have a lot more workers and a lot more tourists. So we are actually talking a hundred thousand plus people using the space in the city. So rush hour and how do we address it? I don't know. I mean my feeling is now I have driven a motorbike for many many years. Now I'm cycling with some back wind. It's actually the best way to go around and I realize we are never really being in a rush. So we are quite capable of learning and if the city is designed accordingly people will also adapt it as they are ideal to to obtain. You know their aim to obtain this is a city it's different than any other city. Here we can't drive fast. I think there are places in I know islands you know where you have to normally leave your car before entering the ferry to the island and the island is pretty quiet and there are still cars but they drive slowly. So don't underestimate the learning capacities we have and we have to make it also clear that we want a special city not just any other Indian city and people I'm sure will adapt and just to straighten a road and not letting it me under because people might save half a minute. I don't think it's a good thing to do. It's very well what you said Helmut just now and before you said it's more an internal mobility we are focusing on and what we forget always I feel in comparing with other experiments in the world whether progressive in what you have shown or the bad industrial age examples that we are a membership city. We are a yogic city. We have a purpose city and even mother at one moment wanted the wall around. I remember you have to remember that we are not a city like any other where the commercial hub is the main traffic engine. This is much more reduced and and that would inform especially the crown ring which is our stretched inner city area which is in other cities Plaza or here it is around our inner place of silence. So this is a very different story and we are always forgetting because we are we are comparing with normal cities and there's a danger also that we are overrun by this outer functioning in our thinking even and at that moment in time we have to really put the what do you say the right direction. Our city doesn't have a downtown because in our center we have a spiritual center which is Magrimundia but I always considered the crown as our downtown in a ring shape some kind of mundane action is probably going to happen there depending on our consciousness and we have to be on the growth of our consciousness and we have to be prepared to face it. We can't just point always at other people develop your consciousness. We have to make it also easy for them by design I feel. Thank you so much Helmut and so we now have time for a quick 15 minute break there's some coffee teas and snacks just out behind and yeah if you could come back in at 10.50 that would be great and I think Sophie had something to say. Yeah so I note that you wanted to ask a question. You have this paper please write your questions on the paper or and we can send everything to Helmut and then he'll answer this question to all the architects yes that's the point of all the papers that you are sitting on some of you most of you yeah does that work cool nobody says anything so it's a yes yay see you later