 and responding to all of this stuff about the buzz he said for what it's worth I've heard this several times myself. Well I have a theory on a lot of this Michael but we have a guess. Yes we have a great guess. I'm gonna tease this for later. Your theory. Yes. Our guest happens to be Trevor Bauer's former manager and the manager of the Cleveland Indians and one of the best guys I've ever met in the game and that's Terry Francona. Terry it's Michael, Don and Peter. How are you? Good guys. How are you guys doing? We're doing great. You were on hold when I said that. You're not in the game as long as you are without loving it. What is your thoughts about the news of this week with three, four people losing their jobs now and more allegations out today? Yeah Michael, you know what? Man I've been trying to formulate my thoughts because you know I mean, shoot I knew I was gonna get interviewed. I'm confused. I mean there are people that I really care about. You know Alex Cora who played for me and I love him and I respect AJ him so much and Carlos Beltran as a player. You know, had a reputation that was second to none. And then you know, then you see what happens and I think what I guess how I feel is that they're still really good people. They made mistakes and they're gonna pay the price and the commissioner was very, you know, he told us well, you know, hey, we can't do this. Don't do it. And when it happened, he kind of brought the hammer down. The guys will pay their penalty and then they'll be back in the game. I think that's how it's supposed to work. And you think they will, you think they will be able to get jobs again? Terry? You know what, I'm not the person hiring. Right. But I really do. I think not just in our game but in our country, I think if people show contrition, we enjoy forgiving, which I think is a good thing. But I think there's also a way to handle it and that's by being, you know, like I said, showing contrition and apologizing, there's nothing wrong with that. Now it seems like AJ was put in this situation because of things he didn't do, not so necessarily the involvement or the construction of it. So you're a manager, if you see this is going on, is it an easy fix to blow the whistle, put a stop to it or could you understand how difficult that might be, especially if it's working? Well, I can't speak to this in particular because we didn't do it and I'm glad. But I can tell you, there are a lot of nights when I go home, when I know I need to have a conversation with a player, especially like a veteran player, where he may view it differently than I do. And I lose a lot of sleepover stuff like that because obviously you feel an obligation to get it straightened out, but you don't wanna just beat somebody over the head and lose them. So that's probably the biggest thing a manager has to do is try to keep your house in order, but also keep guys feeling good about themselves and keeping the bulk up going in one direction. Terry Francona, manager of the Indians is our guest. Now, Terry, your hall of fame bonafide, they're set two world series, considered one of the best managers ever. And I was talking about this earlier in the week. Is the aphrodisiac of ultimate success so intoxicating that it does cloud the line between right and wrong? Oh, I think that certainly can happen too. I also know, Michael, when we've been in the game a long time, some of the stuff is almost romanticized. Do you know what you think back of? You hear the stories in the 1950s of guys who had binoculars and they're still in signs that they're crawling up into the stands or into the scoreboard. And in our game, like I said, it kind of gets romanticized. But I think with technology, it kind of crossed the line a little bit and nobody feels real comfortable with it. You know, it's just, you know, I always feel like we have an obligation to make our signs tough enough where teams can't get them, but easy enough where our guys can get them. But that's not including technology. And that's where I guess there's kind of a line. And then again, I'm not the judge and the jury, but that's how I feel. Terry, as the manager, your thoughts on AJ Hinch in this situation, it seems like that he may have been ambivalent about it or maybe outright really wasn't for it. When you think about the situation he was in, what are your thoughts? You know, it's hard because I wasn't there. It wasn't, you know, you're trying to keep your team, like I said, going in one direction. And when you're most valuable members of the team, which it sounded like, you know, we're the guys behind it, that's probably a really difficult position to be in. I don't envy that. I envied how good they were, but that is a really difficult situation. And that's why you try to stay on things every day so things don't get past you where it gets to the point where you can't fix something. You might have heard when you were on hold, your former pitcher said that he has heard rumors of the Astros wearing buzzers on their body. Have you heard those rumors, Terry? Never in my life. I heard you kind of mentioned it something, and I actually thought you were kidding. No. I thought it was like somebody was doing a parody or something. I know, I had never heard that. Yeah, because there's been rumors this week that as he hit the walk-off home run-off Chapman to win the ALCS, two of they were screaming between third and home, don't rip off my shirt, and there's a picture of a little piece of tape on his right side, and there's a lot of smoke there. Obviously, there's no proof, but Bauer said that he's heard it. Other people have said that they've heard that they do wear buzzers, some of them. That's a new one for me. I never even gave it a thought, nor had I heard it. I could have to go look back at some of the videotape or something, because that's a new one for me. Now, how much of it is on the victim? Because we saw when the news broke about the investigation, there was video of Farquhar when he was with the White Sox changing the signs in the middle of the game because he sensed something was going on. He heard the garbage can. So how much of it is on you as a manager to say, they might be doing something, we're gonna now have to be ahead of the game. We're gonna have to change our signs. We just can't allow ourselves to be victims of this. Well, that's a great point. But as the game has evolved, they've eliminated the trips to the mound because guys were going out every, when it was a clutch situation, sometimes guys are going out every other pitch, or almost every pitch because they didn't want to put a sign down. That's how good these guys will get at it. But now they've limited that. Sometimes you'll see a pitcher take his hat off and look at what sequence of signs they're using, which I think is good. I think maybe they need to let pitchers wear an arm band, like a wrist band that almost like the quarterbacks have. So you're able to have some communication with your catcher without having to go out to the mound. There's gotta be ways that aren't overly difficult that can help teams communicate and not slow the game down. Terry, I want to throw something at you and get your take on it. The electronics obviously brings this into a different realm. You've crossed a Rubicon because electronics are in. And I say that the way you eliminate this, that nobody on the 25-man roster of the coaching staff could be inside the video room during the game. And I've also always believed, Terry, that with the challenge system, you should challenge in real time, not before somebody looks at a replay. If your player says, I was safe, then you challenge and you have to trust him or not. Your thoughts? You know what? They give us 30 seconds to make a challenge and I actually am pretty comfortable with that. I understand what you're saying. Maybe there's something to it. I don't know. I mean, just with the super slow motion and stuff now, I don't know how many times you're gonna get it right just because a lot of times, when you're in the dugout, we have a worse view than almost anybody in the ballpark. Like you gotta remember sometimes, some of these fields that are crowned, you can't even see second base sometimes from the dugout. So again, you'd hate to be making decisions when you have the least information of anybody there. But your player's the closest, so he would be the one who signals you. They're always say they're safe. They do. How many times you see a guy pop up and he's out by five feet and he's thinking I'm safe and you know he's out and everybody thinks they're safe. If you lost to the Astros because of this in the playoffs, how would you feel right now? Well, we lost to the Astros because of Cole and Verlander. I mean, the first two games, they threw the ball right by us. You know, we played them in 2017 and they swept us and they overwhelmed us. They were that good. Have you lost like the Yankees did in seven games? You know, or losing on the walk-off if there's something to the 2019 allegations? And you felt like you could have won that series. It was that close. How much would it bother you? Yeah, I don't know. You know what, guys? I guess I figure, I don't know. I just, I've always felt like, hey, you go play and if you're good enough, you're gonna win. And it's just too easy to blame somebody else. I mean, I get it. I get what you're saying. But I just would rather put the onus on me and our team as opposed to blaming somebody else. I just, it's just, it's not a healthy way to go about the game and your life. It just, it doesn't help anybody. Tara, can I ask you a question unrelated to cheating simply about your managerial career? Sure. Now, being in Cleveland, how similar is the feeling to being in Boston in terms of the pressure of how much this town wins a championship? And for you, you've now, you know, you've been there, you've managed like 1,100 games there or something like that. How much has it gotten to you to really become important to bring a title to the city? Well, okay, it's different, obviously. I mean, in Boston, and you guys have seen it, same in New York, there's so much passion, there's so much interest, you know, when I was there, every game was sold out. And along with that passion, there can't help but become a headache or two for the manager, that's just part of it. I mean, you're getting hit with media every day and questions coming out of, you know, every game is dissected eight different ways. In Cleveland, it's not like that. But the pressure to win is the exact same now as it was 15 years ago in Boston. I mean, I tell people, I didn't come to Cleveland to go to pasture, you know, I just, I changed jobs. And I do think there's less fires to put out kind of off the field in Cleveland. You can spend more time actually on baseball, which I love. But when the game starts, I feel the same exact that I did in 2004 and as I did in 1997 with the Phillies, that'll never change. All right, so today starts the Diamond Resorts Tournament of Champions and Four Seasons Golf and Sports Club in Orlando. And you are one of an array of stars, Terry John Smoltz, Justin Verlander, Larry Fitzgerald, Marcus Allen, Ray Allen, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddox, Tom Glavin, you like them on your staff. What is this about? And why do you love it so much? Well, okay, first of all, Mike Flasky and his people, they do an incredible job. They treat us so well and they raise so much money for the children's hospital down here, which is first and foremost. We get to play with the LPGA girls and they're terrific. But you know, you go on the driving range, today I went out there and there's Ray Allen. And I mean, you see guys that Brian Erlacher and you get to talk to them. It's just so much fun to see not only the guys like Beckett that I see once a year now or Lester, but then you see guys for other sports and it's really fun. And I'm to the point now where, I mean, I'm 60, I don't hit the ball very far. So I gotta just try to survive the day. But some of these guys are really good. Now, this tournament, you can see it on the golf channel today and tomorrow and live on NBC Saturday and Sunday. So if you want more information, go to diamondlpga.com, really an array of stars like you would not believe. Before I let you go, Terry, are you happy to this point? I mean, it could change that you still have Francisco Lindore as your shortstop. Yeah, I don't think that's gonna change. You don't? No, no. I mean, I'm privy to the conversations that they aren't having. And by say that, I mean, I'll read something to paper that some team is involved with the Indians. And I know that that's not happening. So I don't put a lot of stock. I put no stock into what I see. Cause I know the conversations and like I said, what isn't happening? Frankie's gonna be our shortstop. Good stuff, Terry. I'll see you along the way. Have a good time this weekend in Orlando. And we thank you for answering the tough questions today. Thanks, Michael. Good to talk to you, man. You take care.