 Tensions mount as APC PDP Mall seeding tickets to the north. And the federal government allegedly plans to challenge or exchange terrorists for abducted hostages. Well, this is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anna Cohn. Anger has greeted alleged plots of some leaders of the ruling all-progressive Congress APC and the main opposition, the People's Democratic Party PDP, to seed their 2023 presidential ticket to the north. After zoning their chairmanship slots to the north, which North knows emerging as national chairman of both parties, the leading parties have not really come out to tell us what exactly the problem is. In fact, there has been a lot of foot dragging on the zoning of presidency to the south. The Pan-Nigerdeltser Forum, PANDEF, led by the former federal commissioner for information and South-South leader, Chief Edwin Clark, had said that it would be color-multuous if the major political parties zoned their presidential tickets to the north. Well joining us to break this down is the national publicity secretary of PANDEF, Ken Robinson, PDP strategist, Dimola Olarawaju, and the state secretary of the Lagos All-Progressive Congress, Juist Wing Oguntonibu Olarawaju. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you very much, Marianne, it's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you so much. Coincidentally, we have two Olarawaju, so one is Olarawaju and one is Olarawaju. I'll be careful not to mix both, but I'm going to start with the APC Olarawaju. What do you presume is responsible for the foot dragging within your party in terms of zoning the presidential ticket? Because everybody has been speculating that's because there's room for that. What exactly is responsible for the slow pace of decision making in terms of that? Interest. The reason is interest. Politics is, we read out with interest, you know, it's all about to get what's made on power when they get it. So it's all about interest. You see, power is something that people want to go down to. And like one of our nationalities that I used to see, we tell you power is not required. You have to fight for power, jump for power, so you can get power. So that is why our youth will always tell you that you have to take power to take charge. So it's all about interest. People really want to read this and that. They want to use that influence to make sure that whatever is shown in the party is good to make free rosin. But I think I did not do the common sense. I'm guessing that these interests that you're making reference to were also at play when the party decided to zone its national offices to people from the north. Now what happens if there be any chance of them deciding to make a U-turn or a detour to pick a presidential candidate from the north? What does that do to your party constitution? Presuming your party constitution is against that? I think the party is not a law-breaking firm that will do what is again the constitution of the party or what is common sense. The question of the party really stated that it is a written but it is a gathering principle that wherever the championship of the party is coming from, definitely the other parts of the country should have the presidential ticket. Here if I said during the process of electing the national office as the NWC that we are going to swap position from the south with people from the north. So it is common sense like I said earlier that our party is going to have the presidential candidate from the southern part of the country. We really know which of the southern parts of the country, probably all the people from the southern part of the country will be dragged for the ticket but it is going to be from the southern part of the country. So it is common sense that the north has spent eight years and in fair character principle it should definitely go to the south. So we in south to south to south east, one of these should actually, and I think as it is as well, it should not even about APC or whether or not, it should be common sense as opposed to the political divide. Like the politics should also take it out with that the north has spent six years, naturally should go to the south. So be it APC or APC as it is made, we should be doing our presidential ticket to the south. Interesting. Quickly before I go to your PDP counterpart, the senate president Lauren, as a consensus candidate, rumor has it that the party wants to adopt him as a consensus candidate. And don't forget he's yet to really declare his presidential, he has mentioned it, of course we all know this, but then the whole senate is divided on this issue we hear. How credible a candidate, if he were to emerge, would he, why would he be the one that would be a consensus candidate as opposed to other people who have emerged within the party because the APC has many presidential candidates, including the former government state governor who has recently also declared his intention to run. You see, that's a word sent to Lauren is speculative. Like he said in his statement a few days ago, or should I say some hours ago, that those are speculative declarations do. I was thinking it would come out to tell us that those are false information, but it said it's a speculative information out there that is not a contest for presidency. That said, like I said earlier, if somebody from the north wants to run for president, it's actually within the rights of that person, but we don't think it is common sense and true principle of inferior character. We should be able to understand the fact that the daughters are spent. I'm sorry, you keep saying common sense, but I'm wondering, this is politics. Common sense sometimes doesn't really hold water. It's a stiff race. We can see that there's a lot of, you know, second guessing going on within both parties. So I really don't know where common sense comes to play here if it has ever really come to play in Nigerian politics. Like I told you earlier, police are not about interest, but at the same time, whenever we're making a decision on the interest, what do you fall into? We should be able to use our common sense to do our political calculations. And I'm very sure, I don't know, I don't know if it's a stand, or if it's a Nigerian stand. I'm very sure, but I don't know if it's a Nigerian stand. We also agree with me that the north are spent eight years and we should definitely be looking at the stats for the presidents here. I'm very, very optimistic. It's getting down that slide. Let me come to you now. The PDP, there's also speculations around the fact that the PDP has been foot dragging as to who they want to give the ticket to. But also the PDP had at some point thrown open its presidential bid saying, look, we're not going to, I remember talking to the national deputy publicity secretary and he succinctly said, we don't necessarily, we haven't necessarily jettisoned the idea of zoning, but we're also welcoming the idea of all those who are interested to throw in their hat. But there's also been a push within the party for zoning to be brought to the south. And you, as somebody from the southwest of Nigeria, where do you stand on this particular matter? I stand on the side of the political party, I stand on the side of the people. You see, the greatest robbery of this election, Marianne, is the fact that it has been, because of the misrule of President Muhammad Uqwari, it has become an ethnic issue rather than an economic issue, rather than an issue of saving our education sector, rather than the insecure thing, not East and in all parts of the North. Now, everybody is more concerned about where the president comes from than what the president can do, because everybody has seen the marginalization we have essentially seen that has been at play under the APC. And it's interesting that, I wonder if you say that on the side of common sense, where was common sense in 2007, when the PDP, in 2003, when the PDP presented a candidate from the South, and the AMPD, one of the parties that became APC, presented Uqwari from the North. They presented him again in 2007, when PDP went to the North, they also went to the North. In 2011, when PDP presented, the APC went ahead and picked from the North. In 2015, when PDP zoomed to the South-South, when the president on PDP platform was from the South-South, they went again to the North. Where was common sense in all those years that they want to apply in 2023? The owners of zoning is on the party in power. It is not on the people's democratic party. You cannot zone what you do not have. And I urge everyone to let us face reality. The president for the past eight years, by 2023, is in Northern on the platform of the all-progressive Congress. It is not a PDP affair. The owners is on APC. And not on PDP. The PDP is the one who must consult in 2023 because you cannot keep going North. You just had eight years of North. The all-progressive Congress. However, the people's democratic party is in the midst of fighting in its way in the power for the sake of Nigeria and not necessarily zoning here or there. So PDP should kindly ordinarily be excluded from this conversation. When you're not going to the Nigeria, and you want to throw something at the APC, you must also throw at PDP so that people won't say that you're PDP. That's why you're attacking only APC. But when the PDP itself was in power, PDP was the focus of all the attacks. Nobody cared where APC was zoning from. Nobody criticized APC for zoning anywhere. PDP was the permanent of zoning in this country. And PDP is a party where, no matter where the president comes from, whether from the North or the South, everybody who's in Nigeria is guaranteed the ability to be part of that government. And so I think we should be very clear that the owners of zoning is on the party in power and not on the people's democratic party. Well, I want to take you up on the fact that you're saying that the PDP should not be joined in this conversation. But there are those who say that, look, the reason why people are getting angry or getting sentimental about this issue of parties being evasive as to who they want to pick to give their flags to in terms of zoning is because they're not necessarily saying anything, but they're saying so much. So again, if the PDP is doing exactly what the APC is doing, because I see that both parties, this is my opinion, I think that maybe both parties are waiting to see what the other, fortunately or unfortunately, the PDP is going to be first to run its primaries. And maybe the APC is waiting to see who emerges and then they can take their stand. It's very competitive, but should we take the PDP out of that conversation? No. You are the second largest political party in the country. Why should you be excused from this conversation? What I mean is in terms of where should we apply pressure? Apply pressure on the party power. What do you want PDP to zone? PDP is not in power. PDP cannot zone precedence. Because PDP does not even have precedence. PDP has not had it since 2015. Nigerians will say PDP out in 2020. But does the PDP intend to win that office? I think that is in power. I'm sorry. Does the PDP not intend to win that office? So should you not also be concerned about the zoning? We do. When our PDP is the party that introduced the idea of zoning and Marian, if you recall, when PDP was preaching the gospel of zoning in this country, the APC laughed at the idea. Zoning does not necessarily mean you zone before you get something. What it means is that as soon as a presidential candidate emerges, if that presidential candidate emerges from the South East, for instance, you then zone the vice-presidency, you zone the position of SGF, you zone other positions so that it becomes a collegiate thing. So you have to have somebody emerge first. We hope that that person emerges from the South in line with the realities of the present political realities. But PDP is not going to get bogged down by the issue of zoning because we believe that the conversations of 2020 to 2023, it's high time we moved it to the issue of the economy, to the issue of the insecurities, the issue of education, and not just the issue of where the next president comes from. I want to go to Ken Robinson because I want to get his thought on this issue. But I will come back to you because you make it sound like the APC should be telling you what to do, but then you're complaining about the narrative. You should be the ones chatting this course. If you want to be talking about the economics of the country, if you want to talk about security, you should be the ones having those conversations, not telling the APC to leave you so that you can have those conversations. You should know what you want. But Mr. Ken Robinson, I want to move to you. The PAN DEF, the Middle Belt Forum, you all have kicked against this issue of food dragging. You have said that if there be any party who decides to zone its tickets to the north, you will not in any way work with those parties. You would rather work with other parties. So my question is, which parties would you rather work with when it looks more certain that maybe both parties might be going for whatever works for them? Mary-Anne, let me first of all make this clear for the MetaCity. The first thing that most of the crises we have in the world, crises in families, in communities, in countries, in societies, organisations is due to the poor management of winter. Well-interested and well-managed crises and in extreme cases war, as we have in Ukraine now and Russia, come up. And so our broader from maybe to talk about interest, politics, the game of interest, what interest was the problem managed in the context of national interest and of course the sectional and regional interest. In this case now we're talking about national interest, the interest of Nigeria as a country, the unity of Nigeria, the peace of Nigeria and the progress of Nigeria and development of course. Now, let us say clearly that the presidency of Nigeria is the presidency of Nigeria. It's not the presidency of APC, it's not the presidency of PDP, the presidency of APA, any other party. It's the presidency of Nigeria and whoever will come becomes the president of Nigeria, not the president of the party. So we have a lot of presidents in place now that by 2023 would have served the statutory eight years and it is unthinkable for some of us and for most Nigeria that another nutella will come and other eight years in the presidency. This morning our leaders talked about the banjo Professor Obi Osso and of course the business will issue a statement and it shouldn't be taken lightly that if you don't zone and those who say that they are very zoning can find that they want to bury Nigeria. And we are serious about that and if any party thinks that winning the presidency is more important than the interests of the country, the other party is not serious. So whether it's APC, whether it's PDP whether it's Abda, any other party at all, Labor Party, whatever or SDP, KRP, any party Nigeria amongst the recognized political parties we are saying if you're a serious party if you're interested in the unity of Nigeria the progress of Nigeria then you should consider our diversity. In a country like Nigeria where the complexities of this country demands that you consider where everything comes from. We're talking about President Wambourn whether his administration has been moved or whether it's been very characterized by nepotism or it's not about that. Zoni didn't start with President Buari it will not end with President Buari if we want to manage ourselves properly as a country and the interests that play out from various parts of the country we must play according to principles that have sustained unity and the oneness of this country. One of those principles is the policy of Zoni and so clearly we will wait for the primaries of the parties to be conducted who will evaluate the choices that will be presented to us and the people of South and Nigeria and the middle-birth regions that are working with us will take a definite decision about the future of this country. I'm curious though being that with all these political parties that you're talking about have members who are from the South-Souths, the Southwest they're from the South-East there are members of the party let me tell you where I'm going. Now we have seen Wazirike who is a South-Easterner who in fact is a Mossab leader who has thrown his weight behind a Norsener and this is somebody from the extraction that has been pushing for presidency. This is somebody from the same extraction that you belong to the South asking that zoning be sent in their direction but the public figure as Wazirike is saying well, I'm for the North so if all of these kinds of people who are party stalwarts leaders and holding high offices in political parties decide that they want to throw their weight behind a Norsener, what can Pandev do what can the middle-belt forum do and what can can and all the people who are blowing hot and cold right now do what strategies would be employed I beg your pardon to vet this situation being that you know what it is, once the party picks a flag bearer, that's it. Mary and I come from a traditional background and I can clearly tell you how resistances and advocacy work and we're not going to have 100% consensus on what we're talking about that will always elevate personality traits above the general interest remember that I've said that if management of interest poorly or well-managed interest that brings about crisis we are at a point in Nigeria where perhaps Nigeria is going to experience the greatest crisis of history even more than the global crisis we call on party stakeholders party leaders across party lines to be sensitive to the movement of the country to the yearnings of the people it is completely unacceptable and no party should think that we have heard some people say they have 11 million some have said they have 12 million those 12 million and 11 million are not statutes, they are not sticks or strings they are human beings with feelings and emotions and they could sway to any direction they want at any time we are calling on party stakeholders and the political leadership across party lines to be sensitive to the movement of the country and do the needful it's not about common sense it's about strategic management for national interest what is more important to us is it the corporate existence of Nigeria the oneness of Nigeria the progress of Nigeria the safety of Nigeria or is it about winning the presidency winning the presidency who will you go for and who will you preside over if there is no peace in Nigeria and so we are using this medium Nigeria was one country if we cannot practice simple protocols that have sustained our oneness then I doubt if we are serious about the unity and progress of Nigeria let me quickly come back to Olam Rehwaju of the APC now you kept harping on the issue of common sense I really wish that you went beyond that and gave us some substance but the APC had canvas in fact about the presidency the presidency came through the platform of the all progressive congress we remember the three things that the president campaigned upon he talked about fighting corruption he wanted to put an end to unemployment and of course deal with the issue of insecurity but these three things majorly the problems that we are dealing with and other things that are on the plate of mr president and that of the country again I ask to be prioritizing sending the ticket to the north again or whoever the highest bidder is in this case because we've seen a lot of big weeks or should the party be considering somebody maybe from the southwest knowing that there's been agitation or rather sorry from the south in general there's been agitation because of the cracks that society has experienced in the past few years under the president's watch which is the herders, the unknown gunmen the ethnic crisis that we've been facing the list is endless what should be the priority of the APC as they get ready for their primaries like I said earlier it is common sense I was thinking about the common sense idea but go ahead the issue like my brother said in those years the APP ACN were choosing from the opposite side the ruling party were taking the candidate from there's one thing that needs to understand that the unity of the country is not as divided as it is now in those years people are as far as they are sharing the money who's driving the country hold on as far as they are sharing the money those days they were editing but it is now people they can and other socio-political groups or socio-religious groups they're not coming out to such a thing that the power was coming to the south because they know that it's not our bar anymore the bar is going and why they have been agitating it because the bar is not sharing the money the marijuana is the money sorry, I want to push you on that are you saying the reason why the southness and I'm putting everybody together they're agitating for power to move to the south because they want money to be shared to them that was what I said that sounds very condescending I don't know so you are a southness so you want money because your people are asking your people are asking for power to be brought to their zone so you're telling me that your people are greedy and your people need money is that what you're saying because they're listening I said the reason why those socio-religious groups are keeping quiet is because they know bar is living wherever comes to power probably from the other part of the country they have a focus on the particular kind of community they know it's going to share the money however it's not going to be on the ticket it's going to go to the south because when that person gets the power it's going to share the money instead it's the money to improve on that infrastructure before now we've never had the train moving in our country today we have trains we have trains allow me Ray I'm going to put a pin pull the plugs on you I'm going to go to quickly I just want to hear your thoughts before Ken Robinson wraps up we have just two minutes to wrap this up I mean to put this conversation in perspective the owners of zoning is on the APC at the end of the day what we as a party PDP can guarantee is that Nigeria will not be this divided along ethnic lines and every Nigerian will be carried along under a PDP government regardless of where the person is from PDP is not zoning to the south PDP is zoning now where the field is open we want a candidate that will be a total Nigerian and that will fight for all Nigerians whether south-east, whether south-south or not east, not west and not central why is the PDP deciding to take this line all the while hold on I'm not asking you the question hold on I beg your pardon I've been calling you Deji I'm asking why all of a sudden is the PDP throwing open its ticket we have been sticking to the zoning process why now especially when the south is asking for its turn of power why is the PDP doing that does that not show some form of insensitivity can I answer can I answer please right, when PDP was in power PDP was zoning PDP is no longer in power PDP is no longer on PDP how do you zone what you do not have you can zone what you do not have PDP is not in power so how is PDP going to zone we are saying PDP is simply saying let the candidates emerge to a free and fair process look, whether it's going to become president it's going to need votes from the north it's going to need votes from the south within the political party space you will win the vote of all delegations everywhere if the general public can embrace you oh well I'm good should not be caught up in this argument of zoning or not running out of time running out of time we would be happy with that let me quickly give Mr Ken Robinson an opportunity to wrap things up Mr Robinson with all the conversation and the arguments back and forth where does this leave the average vulture especially the man who is agitating for power to come to the south let me say this clearly to the political party leaders Mr Robinson are you still there can you hear me are you with me ok I said there is a Northland president that will be completing 8 years in 2023 and let me restate that the presidency is not of the party the presidency is the president of the country so whether it is APC or whether it is PDP or whether it is any other party is the president of Nigeria not the president of the party and for us and I speak on behalf of the political party that we know there are motion parties any of the major political parties particularly APC and PDP there are still some other candidates that will not have our support and if the statement of fact we could take it lightly we could laugh about it but we shall see how it plays out in February 2020 alright well I want to say thank you Ken Robinson is the national publicity secretary we also have PDP strategist and of course we had joining us who is the state secretary our progressive congress youth wing thank you so much gentlemen for being part of the conversation we appreciate your thoughts thank you so much alright well thank you all for staying with us we will take a quick break and when we come back the federal government we hear may release detained terrorists we will change for 68 train hostages we will be right back after this break