 You know I took the year off last year from doing clinics. I kind of want to take a step back and and Well the plan was to take a step back and Kind of sort some things out, but we end up doing the world of question games too. So that was kind of fun So I didn't travel much last year. I'm back traveling this year when I've realized after like that judgment thing I was telling you about Yeah What I've realized in the past when I travel I'm in an airport if I'm walking through an airport or sitting in an airport and I'm people watching I'm judging I'm not thinking the best thing about every person that's walking by you know And so what I had started doing was When I'm walking through the airport when people walk the other way I look him in the eye and I give him a little bit of Eye smile and I'm not gonna even look at you, but then I think may be happy in the next person may be happy may be happy May be happy and what I found is you get to the other end of the airport and you have a completely different Energy inside you Then I used to have walking through an airport. So realize now There's never nothing going on in the year. It's either something negative or it's something positive And if you don't for me personally if I don't choose the positive You know because I probably people watch for so long. It's just I do it without even thinking about it I don't choose the positive. I'll be Judging again, you know, I mean, but if I can have that may you be happy thing and actually I've got a shorter version now We just went to Morocco or places believe it or not. I just got back from working with some horses in Morocco, but so Morocco is You know, it's the top left-hand corner of Africa, but it's just across from Europe and it's just next to the Middle East So it's it's a it's a complete mixture of Europe Africa and the Middle East and so People there you I mean they speak English too, but most people speak either Arabic or French and the Arabic people when they greet each other they say Salam ala Khan, which is basically peace to you It's not hey, hey, you know, I love there's old cultures because you know, we say hey, how are you? But we don't really mean How I But when they say When those guys they they'll they'll usually put the hand on their chest and they kind of look at you and they go Salam ala Khan like they say it with some Some sincerity, you know, I mean it's like peace to you So that's shorter than maybe happy so now my now my My airport saying is Salam ala Khan, it's just coming out quicker. Uh-huh, even the French there, you know, um, they all say Bonjour, hello, and then so far which I think is is how are you but they all all of them they go bonjour So far they always touch their heart That's so interesting When they say so far and they all They all mean it too. You know what I mean? Like there is no Hey going kind of greeting and if someone comes along to a group of people they will walk around and shake and they Sometimes do the two kiss things too, but they will You'll be in a someone to walk up No one even introduces them, but they'll walk even a group of people some will walk up and the new person walks up And he just goes out and shakes hands with everybody there You don't have to introduce them to do that like they just it was it was very very cool I think because it's an older culture. They're just a bit more Or I don't know if they're more connected with each other or just less disconnected than we are One or the other, but yeah, I really like that whole the way they they greet each other I like that too. That's interesting. They say there's been a lot Lost in just the English language. It's a newer language and it's it even just the meanings of the words are Are lost So it's it's interesting that you're talking about this because I've been I've been kind of learning about that and You know some like Italian and Latin and and how you can say one word and there's so much depth already implied in that word And that's that's exactly what you're speaking to is there's there's that depth there that That you don't get with the hey, how are you because it's just kind of superficial and people answer superficially too, right? I'm fine. Are they really fine or how you know, how are they really feeling? And we can apply that to horses then too Oh, yeah, I started, you know, so when I went down there I was asked to go down the budget Royal society for the encouragement of horses in Morocco and it's the it's a um, it's a government Department it's actually comes under the ministry of agriculture, but it's a the government really wants The encouragement of horses and so this big facility and they mostly have Bar the barb breed there Okay um They're barbs and they're pure Arabians There and it's a big breeding facility have all these stallions. So I got to work with all these stallion these purebred barb stallions and some of them are supposed to be pushy and some of them are supposed to be uh aggressive and you know all these sorts of things and I just worked on so they had a ramp in this I just worked with all these horses just getting them to connect and initially you turn them loose and they just run around and look over the fence But after a while they you know, they come and connect and you know, we videoed the whole thing And I was watching some video the other day and when I reach out and like they sniffing on the hand I'd go Salam alaikum Cool From there There was something about yeah, there was something about those horses though like I don't know if it's big. I don't know. I don't know what it is but like when when one of those Yeah, it's crazy. But one of those barb stallions like looks you in the eye They like look into your soul. It was it was pretty cool. Yeah That is pretty cool And it was it was what what's interesting. So I'm in this ramp in And across the road is a mosque a mosque. It's got a big tall minaret off of it And five times a day the call to prayer would go off Oh It was very very cool a couple of times some of the horses had laid down when laying down when they called the prayer went off That was pretty good. I've got a couple of pictures of me squatting down Here and there's a horse laying down here and in the background here is this tall Minaret of the mosque across the street is pretty cool. That's really cool We went and I'll get to the story We went and saw a thing there is the most amazing thing we've ever seen so that in Morocco They have this cultural Thing called tiburita And it's a horse event and it's based on old warfare practices and what they do they have a team of 15 In a row and they're all dressed up in the full whole Arabic garb, you know what I mean? They're all carrying these big Musket rifles and what they do is they in a line they Can't a slow then they can't a fast then they can't a full garb And these guys stand up in the stirrups at a full gallop holding these big muskets and they swing them around and then Boom they shoot them all off at exactly the same time and then they come to a halt in a line It's a It's a part sport part martial art part cultural event. It's actually a unesco world heritage listed cultural event And it comes from warfare practices and so we're in the north of Morocco and they shoot the guns up because up there Enemies would be up on hills and things whereas in the south of Morocco It's close to the part of sahara desert when they shoot their guns. They shoot it down in between the horses Um because their enemies were on the ground and not up above They were fascinating, but so this thing we went to there was 1,100 stallions in one place at one time like closely packed in together every one of them has like Finally embroidered saddle and saddle cloths with the silver and stuff in it and tassels hanging off it in the full Decorative brow bands and I mean it was just I felt like I was on the scene and I'm not being heard. That's roman But I felt like I was in a movie But there's 1,100 stallions in one place at the same time the energy was just Crazy it was yeah, it was amazing I bet I think I think it's so cool that you've been able to travel the world and see some of these differences in not only, you know, how how people express themselves culturally, but also to be able to see what they're doing with their horses because It opens the door to more possibilities that would not have even You know just just by language You know barriers that you wouldn't even discover because you don't have the language to discover it So being able to see it and be exposed to it is so That's pretty special. That's pretty neat. It was very cool when I work with those Stones there because they had an interpreter for me. So this guy's been an interpreter at the UN like so he You can talk to him and he can talk A different language in real time so you can just keep talking he just keeps spitting out So it comes in one he processes in another language and spits it out and so he was He was very very helpful People watching weren't English wasn't their first language or even they might not even know English and so sometimes he was talking French. Sometimes he was talking Oh, wow, so he was doing like a lot of languages Oh your videos The video broke out and then but I see you now. Okay. Um, yeah, so he was Sometimes it was French. Sometimes it was Arabic. He wasn't translating it into both but Oh, got it. Got it. Got it. But it was pretty cool working with these these Barb Stallions With all the so all the trainers from Trainers and breeders from around there where they were watching. Yeah, it was it was very very cool So tell us a little bit about your journey Getting to where you Are now because you started in Australia if I'm not mistaken. Is that correct going in Australia? Yep grew up on a 1200 like a sheep and wheat farm In Australia, okay, and you know road horses as a kid and You know my father rodeoed in Towards the end of the 60s. They started importing quarter horses in Australia And so he got to be in the quarter horses because the time all the time events They're opening the steer echelon and that sort of thing and so they were you know When we started riding we started on ponies and by the time we got to horses We're riding We had quarter horses and we showed at the quarter horse shows that all the you know of western event things Okay And then what brought you to the united states? I wanted to learn I wanted to come over for a year just to learn about more about training horses, especially the raining horses I want to learn how to train the rainers. So if you go train my own horses And so initially it was just a year I was here for a year and I was going to go home and not have come back again And the trainer I was working for when I the day I left We shook hands on his porch when I was going to leave in and he said Uh, you know, if you want to come back, I'll give you a job. He said you could do this for living if you wanted to and You know, I'm a country boy from Australia. I'd never even thought of that And so and I'd met my wife robin in the meantime She uh, she ran like a scalded cat. I chased her for a year and didn't catch her But went back to Australia and then I think when I went back to Australia She kind of missed me chasing her around so then the letters got a little nicer I had kind of two reasons to come back the job offer and that So then so then you came back to the states and And did you work for that fellow at first? Yeah, I went back to work for him for a couple of years Then we got married and um, so then I Went out and went out on my own Okay, and have you have you always been in california or? Yep, I've always been in so we're in the San Francisco Bay area. So I've always been You know, I was in the east bay when I was first here and now we're in the south bay We're and we're down in the bottom end of silicon valley Okay What's and it's interesting is uh, uh, this was all ranch land before you know old spanish land grant stuff and this town When I first met robin about 28 nine years ago it was um Probably about 10 000 people but now it's a satellite community. It's a bedroom community for silicon valleys So there's probably 40 000 people here now this this county used to have more cows than than People in it, but this we're not very far from where the dynches were in selenus But they've all been a wall worked Around here. Joe walt has worked on like I can see a ranch out my window here that Joe walt has worked on Okay We used to have a picture of one of the bat like that backdrop you've got behind you We've got a backdrop for the horse expos and one of the pictures on him was a picture of my wife My wife and I were those hills in the background and I was at a horse expo In canada one time and pat prallie walked up the booth and he goes He looks at the hills and he goes that's in holster and I said, yeah, he goes I've worked in that ranch That's pretty neat to have all that history Surrounding the area that you're in Yeah, some of the the first Rain cow horse competitions are actually at our local fairgrounds here back in the Wow, I think, you know, this was all spanish land grant stuff and there were a lot of A lot of like the carers around here at the at some point in time It's our local fair here. They have a figure eight roping. It's the only place in the world. They have it Yeah, we have figure eight roping. I have yeah. Yeah, they have a competition here And there's there's you know, there's 20 year old guys around here who can do it in other places There's probably only really old guys can do it, but they've kept the tradition going here and so So they you know They rope them and they the they rope around the horns and they figure eight and they catch their front feet So when you do it you get I think you get five points for Catching everything one point for catching the horn or one front foot I think if I'm not correct maybe two and then zero if you only get the horns or you miss you just got over doing the world equestrian games How can you can you tell us the story about that and the horses that went and yeah, so um so we moved back to australia in 2006 between 2006 and 2010 we're living in australia and While we're there we helped organize australia's first reigning team for the world equestrian games And it was in lexington utaki and we thought that would be a one off like we'd never get to do that again and then Last year they're going to have the world equestrian games They had the world equestrian games here in the us and so we thought we'd try for it again You know there was there's you know, I hadn't been competing in the reigning for about four years My wife still had been And there's a lot of australians both who live here in the us and are in australia who are way better at the reigning than either of us that it just turned out that they weren't going to be able to Qualify as it because it's it's a it's a Journey's not the word I'm looking for It's it's a big deal to get qualified. I mean it takes a lot of effort time money the whole thing And so I'd already decided I wasn't traveling doing clinics last year. And so I had the opportunity to do that. So we um We both qualified and made the team for that and then so the horses we took we owned both of them One robin's horse was the oldest horse at weg was the oldest running horse at weg and mine I think was You know one of the one of the older ones there But they're probably the only two running horses at weg who weren't Weren't clipped and and had bite marks on because they live in a past together I can see the two of them right outside our kitchen window here right now Yeah, and so Sorry the dogs are whining and so yeah, so they were It was it was good to go and compete and And show that you can have that relationship thing with That competition horse, you know, man Yeah, I think that's hard for Old trainers that are out there that are are trying to find that You know, does it have to just be one way Or the other does it have to be I just the relationship piece and You know Only be that or can it actually Actually be both and I know that's an internal struggle. I've had at times is um You know, do you have to pick one or the other or can it just Be something that can be that can be both and you've proved it can be it can be both Yeah, I mean, I think you know With those two horses that was It was doable and you know, it was uh Yeah, it's pretty amazing. So we had we had um helped from jane pike with the the mental side of the the whole thing and You know, and we went there our Team coach or our chef to quip as they call them. He said so what do you think you guys can can score on these two horses? You know, everything works out if you're good. They're good. They're prepared right everything goes right on the day and Both roblin. I said, no, we can probably you know To 17 and a half, you know, it should be 72 and a half under all three judges We thought we could do that and so then we went the first round. I was a two seven ten Robin was a two 18 and they have The first round is the team competition. So they award the team medals from that and then The top 15 of that go directly to the individual finals and then the next 20 so from 16 to 35 They go back to the semifinals and the top five out of them go back to the Back to the funds and you know, we never even thought about making the semifinals which we did I made the semifinals in last place and robin was like second last and uh Then we came back in and we bettered our scores by so I was a 220 the second time round and robin was a 220 and a half and um That was way better than we thought we could evidently. So our highest scores ever at the on the biggest stage ever and um Robin was the sir Robin didn't make it back to the fun. She was in sixth place and I was in seventh So we almost made it back to the finals on in a little cheapy backyard horses here, you know But the big the big part of it was Now the mental coaching that jane pike had given us leading up to it That was the the thing like I've never been I've never been that relaxed competing ever leaving it a small show It was just everything was like we were just in the zone like In the state of flow like everything was crystal clear and Yeah, it was it was great. It was It was a great experience That's pretty cool that that you were able to achieve that level mentally in a high pressure situation because that Is I I I showed better than I'd ever shown before and I haven't shown for four years Yeah, but it's not the physical thing that that you need. It's that it's that mental thing and jane With her coaching during the year one of the things she did she did us You know a zoom call like this and she asked us some questions and some of those questions sounded like they're about You know self-limiting beliefs those sorts of things But then she made this audio for us to listen to different ones for me than for robin and you have to listen to it with um stereo headphones And it's about half an hour long and when it starts out the first 10 minutes is jane talking in both ears But after about 10 minutes this jane keeps talking in a different jane starts over here And so there's these two voices in your ears And you can't listen to both of them at the same time you can only listen to one but apparently I found out later That's actually a hypnotism thing and it gets into your subconscious And so when I competed the first time at the water question games it was different Like something felt different that I've never felt before and I wasn't sure what it was And then when I competed the second time I came out it was like that was different And then I realized what was different was that little Crappy voice in the back of your head that says you're not good enough. What are you doing here? Who do you think you are you suck whatever? Wasn't there anymore And that's the first time I actually realized it had been there So it's been there all the time in the background playing so much that you don't even consciously aware of it So I wasn't aware of it until it wasn't there That's so interesting. She almost she bypassed Maybe I don't know if I'm getting this right, but it sounds like she bypassed your ability to Listen to what she was saying and compute it logically and go put it through all your filters and And and instead she just basically implanted it right in your head Yeah, that's what the second the other voice you can only listen to one of them and they're both saying the same type of stuff But maybe using different words and different sentence structures or whatever But whichever one you're listening to the one you're not listening to is going into your subconscious And it was uh, yeah robin had the same experience like we were both completely In the zone and that's you know, that's probably going to be my last My last brain competition, you know, I really I'm not that interested in competing in that These days, but it was it was amazing just having that experience of That was the world of question games. Yeah, but just having that experience of of That state of flow that I've never felt before In a high pressure and I've never felt in any situation It was a high pressure situation and yeah, it was it was pretty it was pretty amazing But that really helped me with that whole you know, I tell that story a lot to people because One of the other things that I'd done that year was that whole non-judgment thing, you know that That counting judgmental thoughts and being aware of judgmental thoughts and then reframing those thoughts And so I think all of that was it was a part of it, but but definitely Jane's coaching was Was a big part of it Jane a lot of her coaching is for people who have Fear around writing but she also does the the competition stuff too Interesting you have a fear thing around writing is such an important thing for people to be able to work on away from the horse and And deal with and that's that comes up so regularly for people And they often feel not only the fear of of the actual fear they're experiencing But the fear of even letting other people know that they're fearful, you know It's the stigma that's attached to it and it's it's okay To be scared And people like her I loved to maybe get in touch with her and see if we could maybe get her in the next pair because it sounds like she's got some Oh, she's amazing. Yeah, she's yeah Yeah, because I think that's such a huge I mean that's just such a huge piece of the the puzzle for so For all of us. I guess I mean we all have fears. Let's face it Yes, I think a lot of times people have trouble with their horses because they're afraid But they don't want to admit they're afraid. So there's an there's some sort of an excuse there to blame on the horse But he won't do this. He won't do that and all the problems are coming from the fact That they're afraid but won't admit they're afraid and Jane talks a lot about she says that whole fake it to you make it thing is crap Um because it doesn't work with horses. So these days they use horses a lot for equine assisted therapy those sorts of things um, you know Corporate team building stuff like that and one of the things I think That horses are good for that stuff is because they're very good at detecting incongruent behavior You know when you're in a landscape and you're at a landscape don't line up and when you Pretend you're not afraid but you're afraid I think it makes them React worse than if you just said hey, I'm afraid Because there's that you don't have that that incongruency if you're worried on the inside and you tell them I'm you admit that you wrote on the outside. It's a completely different feeling than if you are People on the inside and you're trying to do your best to put on a brave face because that just makes you a liar And I think that makes them a little bit Learned about being around you and I and I don't know if this is true, but I've been using this story It clinics a lot lately I say, you know, I think the reason horses are very good at detecting incongruent behavior If you've ever watched like a national geographic thing and there's a herd of zebra and there's a lion walking past and he's walking past And he's thinking I'm going to walk past and go to the waterhole okay What he's showing on the outside he's showing on the inside but if that lion Said I'm going to walk past but really I'm thinking about trying to get one of these things these zebras here that whole Energy would be completely different and I think that's the thing they really have evolved To attune to is that incongruent behavior? I'm going to pretend I'm walking past but really I'm trying to eat one of you guys and I think that Energy they just they can pick up on that really easy and it makes the money easy They don't can't relax that way and a lot of people have trouble, you know, most horse problems arise from anxiety those horses not be able to just Just be relaxed around people and I think a lot of times the whole physiological and mental thing of what the person's doing not what they're doing as in The movements they might be reading just the energy coming off of me is a big part of that Yeah, cool. I think so too. I think so too This has been great warwick. You've got so much to share so much Just super valuable information in this interview for people to just take one piece of it And I love how earlier you said, you know Start start maybe with meditating and only do two minutes. So it's not like We have to Go in there and just like try to make all of these changes if we can make One little change, you know, like your non-judgment thing. It was one little change And then you notice what happens, you know, that awareness too, right that you talked to so you notice what happens with that one little Little piece and then now you've got momentum in the right direction. So you can start to build on that You can you know add like you said if you're doing 20 minutes do another 20. So if you're doing two minutes do four but That's it. It's it's so cool that that we can find this and we can make these changes incrementally and enjoy the journey enjoy the process as we're doing it so that It's something that that permeates again into our being right into our lives And it makes us better people overall and that's really for the horse fair. That's been my My goal is I want It all starts with us, right? So if we can be better people then our horses are better And if we're better people then the world is better If if we can continue to develop and spread this knowledge and and like you said earlier, too It's you can't judge so everybody's on a different part of their journey and they're going to resonate with certain presenters more more than others and that's that's going to work for them and their horse rate than in there That's good because it's starting them on a path And at least if you take one foot forward onto a path now you're going somewhere And then more comes available to us, right? And we can start to you know as we grow and change and we find more meaning in certain things It's going to take us on another path and then our job is like you're doing you're sharing it So you're sharing it with people to help people Grow on their journey and and in their in their path without judging where they're at because We're all at where we're at just like our horses are because of our life experiences We're all just wanting to be better and survive better and and be okay and and so I I just I can't thank you enough for sharing all of this because it's it's so valuable Well, yeah, I mean I'm passionate about sharing it because it's once I discovered how valuable it was for me. It's like Kind of valuable for everybody Yeah So and I appreciate everybody for joining us today. Thank you for being here And and spread the word You know help let other people know about the fair or about warwick and about How they can just through learning and experimenting and non-judgment Try to find what works best for them and their horse. Maybe try to bring out that inner 10-year-old child, right? That 10-year-old girl big part, but you know, I think to do that 10-year-old girl stuff you have to You have to get rid of expectations and you have to get rid of Judgments and you have to be present, you know someone Once when I coined the term 10-year-old girl training a couple years ago Someone sent me a picture of their son And they said doing some four-year-old boy training And the horse was standing independent and the boy was off Writing his bicycle around or whatever and I said, no, that's not really 10-year-old girl training 10-year-old girl training is You are with your horse and you are right there. You can see every hair in its mane You're not doing something else that I said that 10 the four-year-old boy was just riding his bike around And the horse happened to be near there, but he he had no idea the horse was even a live sort of thing I think the 10-year-old girl training is just you know, 10-year-old girls just hang out with their horses and tell them all their deepest darker secrets and Yeah, they're just kind of really Present and open with them Yeah, that's exactly that's exactly right So So pure So pure Yeah That's you know, um, I met an old guy last year Who was friends with tom and bill dorrance? And I think this story was about tom coming to visit him one day, but he's in ours now trains cutting horses this guy and um Tom he hadn't seen tom for a few years and tom came to visit him And he pulled up out the front of the barn and came in the barn and they sat down to have a chat so this in this barn there is a Barn cat. It's a wild barn cat. It's black and white and this guy said I know it's black and white, but I have not ever seen it for long enough to tell you if it has a black patch on its left eye Or a white patch on its right hip, you know, he just kind of flits from here to there like wild barn cats too And he said when we sat down and started talking about half an hour later that cat flitted across the end of the barn eye I don't usually see him in the middle of the day, but that's fine Then 10 minutes later 20 minutes later. He was sitting at the end of the barn eye Which he said it's the first time I've ever looked at him and laid eyes on him and seen He's got a black patch on his left eye And then half an hour later he was halfway down the barn eye and they kept chatting and half an hour later He was over rubbing his head on tom's leg And he said tom stayed for two days and this cat followed him around like a dog for two days And then when tom left the cat went back to being ferrule and he said he didn't look at it touch it back into it Say anything to it. There's just something about him that that cat And I imagine every other animal was attracted to and it's I think it's It's figuring out what that thing is Well, no, it's not necessarily figuring out what it is because that's having expectations, but just allowing You know what I mean letting that Letting that that happen letting your yourself be in that space. I think is that The key to the whole thing Yeah, knowing that that's available just like knowing knowing the the people And I don't remember where it was, but that we're out in the jungle Knowing that that's available. So now we can be allowing it in and And if you if you don't know, it's available sometimes it's hard to allow it because we just don't even think it's a possibility right And I think you know, I think these days I'm really into a lot of scientific stuff these days quantum physics You type stuff, but what's cool these days is You know, if things like functional MRIs things like that so they can map people's brains activity while things are in real-time all things are happening and so they can almost quantify the spiritual sort of stuff, you know what I mean and so you can actually see the science of When your brain's thinking this Happens to your body they can detect energy in your body your horse can detect that energy and so, you know, you really get to Be aware that Your horse can sense You know your thoughts and your energy and all that sort of stuff. It's it's no longer I will I'll just take a leap of faith and believe it now It, you know, you it's it's quantifiable. Have you ever heard of the heart and mouth institute? I have Yeah, and so yeah, so they're not actually very far from here, but that that whole heart rate variability thing That's popping up in everything these days. You know, the navy seals work on heart rate There's a book stealing fire and the subtitle is how Silicon Valley navy seals and rogue entrepreneurs are changing the way we live and work fascinating books written by Steven Cottis who wrote a book called the rise of Superman a few years ago I know if you heard that one it was about achieving the flow state Oh, but it talks this book talks about a lot of things, but it talks quite a bit about that heart rate variability thing and I was in the uk recently doing some clinics and before I left the uk I went to this one day seminar in london by these couple of guys who were like spiritual scientists, you know, they can prove The power of thoughts and all that sort of stuff and they did an experiment where they so there's 500 people there And they got this one girl up on stage and hook A heart rate variability monitor, you know, they clip it on your ear and then we all did this heart This heart math meditation all 500 of us and this girl got her heart rate coherence to a hundred percent On stage in front of 500 people. I think it might have been that the community You know the vibe there too, but yeah, it was very very cool. Her heart rate was still 120 So she was still highly stressed about being in front of all those people that her heart rate variability was a hundred percent, which means you're in a in a Totally relaxed state. So yeah, it was pretty cool. This is pretty cool. Yeah, there's so much so much out there To play around with yeah, let me show you a little gadget. Okay So this is called a new it's a brain sensing headband Oh, I've heard of these put it on Like this over your ears And then it hooked to an app on your phone and you have earphones in there and you meditate with it And the thing about meditating is you don't know if you're doing it, right? So what this thing does is you can choose the sounds I've got it on rainforest And so if your mind is kind of scattered You hear heavy rain And if your mind gets quite clear you hear really light rain on leaves And then if you get really in a meditative state birds chirp like the sun's come out and birds are chirping And um It's good. I think it's it's great because you know, you don't know if your meditation practice is actually working You know, if you am I getting it, you know name? Yeah, and so that actually gives you feedback on Feedback on what's going on It's it's stuff So things like that these days, you know, like we have so much technology That's bad for us like being addicted to the new phone But there's also a lot of technology like that. That's really good for us because it can really help us Tell if we're not like that heart rate, you know that heart rate variability yep being or the Things like that muse they really tell us if we're on the right track and you know Then you know what changes you need to make if you need to make some right and then you're not interrupting your meditation wondering if you're meditating Well, that's the thing when I first started using that thing and I it said, you know, if you hear birds, then you're in a really good place So i'm listening to it heavy rain. I'm trying to get the heavy rain to go away and the rain gets lighter And then I hear some birds and like I got the birds So you've got to be able to take the feedback of the birds telling you in the right place without actually Judging I think you're now in the right place Takes a little bit of work to ignore the the birds but I had a girl at a horse expert recently come by the booth and saying I've tried and she seemed like she was kind of an anxious type She said I've tried to meditate and I just I just I just can't I just can't meditate and I said, well, how have you tried to meditate? She goes well, I sit down and I try to be really relaxed No, that's not meditating. That's what happened when you can meditate. Yeah She said I just and I've had a lot of people say this I just can't do it because I just can't stop my mind from wondering off and I said, okay, there's the problem right there is It's not about Stopping your mind from wandering off. It's bringing it back when you notice it's wandered off It's gonna wander off, you know You're you're you're judging yourself too much saying I can't do this. It's not working I said that Everybody's mind wanders off. It's just your job to Just bring it back. It's not supposed to stay there. I said it's it's like dressage. It's how many transitions you can do that's important Staying at the trial or staying at the walk. It's it's it's the transitions That's the big deal and it's the same thing with your meditation a lot of people like Oh, I never thought of it that way. So it's just their perception of Their meditation practice more so than their meditation practice, you know what I mean? So it's once again, it comes back to that judgment thing. Yeah, definitely Well, is there anything you'd like to finish off with? Yes I think there is It's like this is a thing on its own so in 600 bc a chinese philosopher named Lao Zhu said If you're depressed you're living in the past and if you're anxious you're living in the future and if you are Peaceful you're living in the present and what I found with horses is If you're having problems with them, they're either one or the other