 captioning testing, testing, milk, car, shabazz, testing microphone. Can I be seen and heard? You can be heard. I don't see you yet, though. Oh, well, there's the entire panel is is is there. So not individually, but check check. Can you holla be heard? Yes, I hear you. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome, Miss Bridges. Nice to see you. Welcome, Pamela and Dr. Rhodes. Hello, everyone. Hello. Good evening. Alexis. So what are you eating, Alexis? I've been out at a pizza, veggie pizza. Thank you. Everyone just went. What was that, Dr. Rhodes? I couldn't hear whatever you were saying. Perhaps you weren't saying it to anyone, but yourself or someone else that we did not. I was giving a little technology tip on the microphone. Oh, that was all. So let me check. Can't hear anyone. I don't think we're talking. I mean, we're not talking just yet. Can you hear me now? Yes. OK. Thank you, Miss Bridges. They're just waiting for Dr. Shabazz to find his computer, find his computer. He's. Listed as a panelist. Yeah, Dr. Shabazz, you're in the attendees. I thought he was live. Thank you. We're we're in now. There we go. Yeah. I'm just waiting another moment to see if Yvonne is able to join us and then we'll go ahead and get started. OK, I think we're going to go ahead and get started. And then we'll keep our eye out for Yvonne and just checking in with everybody that your technology seems to be working. Any issues? OK, great. And Jennifer, you've already begun recording. Is that right? Yes. OK, great. So I'm going to call to order the March 1st meeting of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly at 6.05 p.m. This meeting is a hybrid meeting. So some of us are in Town Hall and others are joining by Zoom. Pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, the meeting will be conducted via remote means. However, as I said, some of us are here also in the town room. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And I'm going to go ahead and start by doing a sound check to make sure that everybody can hear and be heard and also making sure that folks know that this is being recorded. Also, if you choose to have your camera off during any portion of the retreat, I I encourage it if you if you want to to turn it off because this is really for us to be here together and to work together. However, just be just know that when your camera is off, people in the audience can't see you. There isn't even a box that has your name anymore. And that goes if you're attending by Zoom or we're all essentially attending by Zoom. So if you do turn your camera off, the people in the audience will not be able to see you, but they will hear you. So if your camera is off and you are making a comment, you will still be heard. So let's start with Pamela. I can hear and and. Great, welcome. Glad you could join Dr. Rhodes here and I can hear for everyone. And I can see Dr. Shabana is looking good. You're a little muffled up or Dr. Rhodes, you're a little muffled. Just so you know, am I still muffled? That's a little better. Yeah, I'll get closer to the mic then. Great. Ms. Bridges, I can hear you. I can see you. Excellent. And you can be heard very well. Alexis, hello. Hello, Dr. Shabazz. Good evening, everyone. And Hala, I get hello. Great. And Jennifer, you are hearing everything and OK. Excellent. So Jennifer is here like running all of the technology for us. So thank you, Jennifer. Wonderful. All right. So hopefully Yvonne will be able to join us. This is a special meeting of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly. It's a retreat and we have some specific items that we're going to be covering. And so I will review that in a moment. But I do want to let folks know that there will be no public comment during this meeting. However, we will be meeting next week again at our usual time unless there's I plan to discuss that with assembly members today tonight. And so there will be our usual two periods of public comment at that meeting. So the way I was hoping we could move forward tonight is first, I have a couple announcements. So I will go ahead and announce I hope I'll have screen sharing capability. It looks like I do. And then the first part of our evening will be focused on our values and vision as an assembly. So we'll have, I would hope, about 45 minutes to an hour to do that. And then following that, we're going to begin to develop our survey. So Irv and I had a kickoff meeting with the Dunnehu Institute on Monday. It went very well and we have a framework for us to work with tonight and also would like to present the timeline that the Dunnehu has given to us and see if there's any feedback on that. Does that has that sound? Any questions, comments right now? OK, great. So the first announcement is an assembly members, you've seen some emails that I've sent over the past 24 to 48 hours. I want to first highlight the letter that Congressman McGovern sent to President Biden. That letter was sent yesterday. And I'm going to see if I can share my screen. Jennifer, would you be able to allow me to share screen? There we go. Perfect. So this is the letter and everybody has a copy of it. I've I've sent it. It will be included in the packet. Congressman McGovern has called on President Biden to use executive authority to establish a commission to study reparations for slavery in the United States. And the work that we are doing here in Amherst has been uplifted in this letter. And our assembly has also been uplifted here. And so I think this is really amazing. And I just wanted to take a moment to congratulate us for doing this work and being a model and inspiring our Congressperson to write this letter to President Biden. And I also just I wanted to pause and see if anybody would like to comment on the letter or just have anything to add right now with respect to any questions about there's going to be some press, I imagine around this. They will be sending us social media links that we can share out. So but the floor is open if there are any questions on this. Comments, anything? Yes, I want to acknowledge that we've had a couple of people to pass, including former Congressman John Oliver, as well as our colleague at UMass, John Bracey. And really, I think of that a lot of this letter and the importance that work that Congressman McGovern is doing around food and security and around so many areas that this really goes along with the the great way he is serving our district and the great way that he is serving our country. And so I I really do appreciate this rising from the HRA to to encourage President Biden to move forward. We all understand that true reparations, the fullness of the repair that we need rest in requires federal action. And so this is this is really important. Thank you. I I want to acknowledge John Oliver. And I wouldn't like to take two minutes to tell you about the guy he was and what he meant to me in this community via a story when John was in office I called him one day after receiving a call in the middle of the night at three a.m. From a neighbor who had grew up in our neighborhood. It was a close neighbor who played football for UMass, went on and graduated, became a ranger and then was sent off to career, career. And in the middle of the night, he calls me and says to me that he did an old knee injury that he had and that he continued to be aggravated and that he couldn't continue the kind of combat training he had unless he got attention. But if anyone knows any about anything about the combat training and combat platoons and battalions, they think that that's all malingering. So he called me and asked me if I could do anything about it so he can come back, get treatment and go back and join his unit. I called John Oliver. Told him about the story, told him who this kid was and John knew who this kid was. And lo and behold, three days later, that kid was on an airplane back to Bethesda to walk the read to get treatment. That was John Oliver, to me. He is an it was an incredible person. Every time I was in Washington, D.C. and I was when I was a policy fellow and I was stopped by his office. His office was always so. So I am I mourn his passing. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Rhodes. All right. So the second announcement that I wanted to make tonight and we will certainly make time on Monday at our meeting to dive into the details more. But I have sent to you all. Can you all see the screen? OK. I have sent this and again, this will be in our packet. This is a save the date for our screening of the big payback. This is happening March 30th from six to nine p.m. at the powerhouse at Amherst College. And our partners here are the Association of Amherst students, which is the Student Senate folks that we've been working with. The Lewis Sebring Foundation. And I'll talk more about the Lewis Sebring Foundation on Monday and also, of course, first repair. Robin Rue Simmons will be joining us at the screening and also participating in a talk back session after the screening. So we have some decisions to make about this this facility holds about 200 people. So we have some decisions to make about how we're putting this out into the community. Folks that we may want to identify to invite specifically. And also, I spoke with Robin earlier today, whether we want to expand the panel. So whether it's only Robin and doing sort of a question answer with our audience or if we want to expand. So those are the questions that we'll take a look at on Monday. And this is something that we can begin to share. However, I would say since we're not clear yet on how we're going to approach it, we may want to wait to do that until Monday after Monday's meeting. Are there any and if we could use the raise hand function, it helps me to be able to at least as I'm getting used to this hybrid, that would be great. Are there any questions or comments about this right now? All right, so I'm going to go ahead and stop the share. We're all really excited. Robin's flights have been booked and Robin will be traveling after she's in Amherst to I think a reparations conference that's happening in Harvard at Harvard University the next day. So we'll all I'll provide more details on that. All right, wonderful. So this first part of our discussion tonight is going to be centered around values. And I wish I could play back the recording of a comment that Alexis made maybe two or three meetings ago now in which Alexis began to talk a little bit about her values and then we sort of expanded on this idea of each of us come to this with a different experience, different background and a different philosophy, even perhaps on reparations. And there is, of course, a discussion that's happening at the local state and federal level. And there is some debate and some really rich discussion about reparations. And so what I was hoping to do tonight is for each of us to be able to speak to where we're coming from in this and what our values are. And then after we've each had that opportunity to do that, to see if we might find some shared vision and values that we want to put forward as we continue with our work, particularly as we develop this survey. And when we get to that, I think Irv will agree that in the meeting that we had with the Donahue Institute, looking at some of the questions that have been pulled from other surveys throughout the country, we really it will be important for us to have this shared vision and values so that we can develop a survey that reflects that. And I have no expectation that this is static by any means or that there's once we've decided we're not necessarily have to make a position on anything in particular tonight. It's more just to have a spacious opportunity to dialogue. I also did want to mention that we may end sooner than eight, but I do personally have a hard stop at eight. So if somebody else, if the conversation was continuing beyond that, I could turn it over to somebody else to continue. So at this point, the floor is open and we can begin however folks would like to begin. If somebody is ready and would like to to speak, we can start there. I also thought we could start just sort of with a moment of just grounding ourselves and maybe just taking a few deep breaths to welcome ourselves into this space and setting the intention that we have come to this with certainly a shared mission and so allowing for this space to open that up and get into the layers of that. However, each assembly member feels is right for them. That's a great question, Dr. Shabazz. Some of them allow you to just hit it once. And if it's green, that means you don't have to hold it the whole time. Try that. OK. Yours is not one of those, which means that when you're speaking, you do have to hold it. And I'll mention I did send some interesting articles I thought earlier today. I don't know if folks had a chance to look at those that really spoke to what a local reparations. The first one, I think, was what what needs to happen locally for reparative justice to happen. And then the other one spoke to some of the challenges that the that reparations in it of itself in our country, we know that there's this movement, but that there are challenges. And so let me prompt us even a little bit more to say that we're going to be developing these survey questions and. It may be that we want to start by looking at some of those to get the juices flowing, so to speak, and then see if maybe that that will bring up some discussion. Would people want to do that? Or. Right. This is astonishing. No one wants to speak. I mean, what is this? I'm really I'm a am I really in a dream or nightmare or is this something that's really occurring? It's. Alexis. I want, you know, Dabra Dr. Rhodes. Dr. Rhodes is the preserver of the nightmares. So anyway, this is interesting. I think I think it was put on as quick. It's been expected. So again, you gotta breathe thinking about it for a second. Yeah, yeah, I think that one of the things that I really appreciated that Michelle sent out was this one article that looked at the four areas, I think it's four, that of acknowledgement, acknowledgement, apology, repair, and enclosure. An enclosure of all of those areas, the one that's going to be the most difficult on the local and the national level, at least in my opinion, is going to be repair. Acknowledgement and apology are minimums that need to occur on the local level ASAP. Repair is something that is going to have to be worked through by the community. But at least if we can get to the first two and get those accomplished, we will be on the path to repair. Thank you, Dr. Roots. So I'm gonna go ahead and pull up the framework that Irv and I worked on with the Dunningham Institute earlier this week so that we can begin to look at that and it's possible that this, and probably even better that this isn't a linear discussion like in this hour we do this and in this hour we do this, I think it will actually help us to be able to move in between, so let's give that a try. And if you'll just give me a second, I'm gonna go ahead and pull that up. I've turned this into a Google Doc, so I'm gonna be taking notes in the document as best I can. Let's see here. Is everyone looking at a Google document? Yes. Okay, wonderful. All right, oh, you know what? Let me just review quickly the timeline one second. I'm very curious what folks think about the proposed timeline. So I'm gonna pull that up. Okay, so you can see here that Carrie has proposed that we will finalize the questionnaire by, finalize the questionnaire by March. Okay, that is, yeah, I'm just realizing that, yes, I'm looking at, we, okay, so our original scope of work actually was a little bit different than this and when we met with Carrie earlier this week and she realized that we had a little bit more time than she had thought. This is our revised. So March 31st, we would be finalizing the survey so that will give us between now and the 31st to develop the questions, as well as to identify one to two people who will take the survey as folks who can provide us some feedback on the survey. And then we'll open the survey April 4th, close the survey April 19th, and then the Dunahue will provide us tables and figures and analysis by May 17th. And so our report is due sometime in June and one way for us to think about this is starting tonight, we're beginning to write our report. I mean, in some sense, we've been writing our report, but what we I think want to be able to do is to begin to develop our report now as opposed to doing the work and then trying to write a report two or three weeks before it's due. So I am gonna open it for questions in terms of this timeline, whether this seems appropriate if there are questions or comments about it. I think that looks good. Excellent. Okay, and it was acknowledged that the opening to the closing, it is a tight window. And I think there are like pros and cons to having maybe a longer time, but also you want to encourage people to really get on there and complete the survey. So if you leave it open for too long, it can also have the reverse effect. But if we find that we're hearing from community that folks do need more time, then we have a little bit of wiggle room built in here. All right, wonderful. So I'm gonna come back. Yes, Jennifer. I just think it's really important that you have good outreach for that if you want to get the word out and to have people complete the survey within that small timeframe. I think that things are more about, less about the timeframe and more about the community engagement piece that comes with that. Absolutely, yeah. And in fact, we will be on Monday going over that very long list of community engagement, which I'll just share quickly. We did share this with the Donahue Institute and they were, I think that they were really maybe even relieved that we had developed such a list. So we have our list here. And then of course, we also have where we will physically have the survey be available for distribution. And we talked even about having some folks that may be able to assist community members in filling out the survey as needed. So on Monday, we'll have a strategy for how we're gonna go about. Once that date comes March 31st, we need to be ready to go and get this out to folks. All right, so coming back here then to the survey topics. This is sort of the meat of the development of the survey. And you can see here, the folks at the Donahue Institute did search for as many surveys related to reparations as they could. But it's to be acknowledged that many of the surveys that exist are more polling at the federal level. And so some of the questions have to be, taken into the local sphere. Additionally, it's important to note that there will be a cover letter that comes with the survey. So it will give some general background about the history of this work and this initiative and some just useful tips for folks who are completing the survey. So let's start here with, and that's the introductory statement also is going to explain the legislative actions that have occurred. Cause we may get some folks who come to the survey who have not been following. And for folks who have, it's good to have that in front of them. So here you can see what the introduction will explain. It will be the objectives, the purpose of the survey, the confidentiality piece, and of course the participation is voluntary. The second piece of this here is what Carrie called an eligibility or eligibility screeners. And I really want us to pause here and think about this. So this is criteria determined by us that screens people and it may even mean that it screens them to say, if this is true, then you would jump down to this section of the survey, for example. Oh, great. Thank you. It's hard to see both. Yeah. Dr. Rhodes, please. Is this up on the screens or is everyone able to see what you're talking about? She wasn't sharing screen. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Sorry about that. Now can everybody see it? Okay, wonderful. All right. So this is, this came from the Dany Hue. This is the framework here that we're sure. Let's see. Yes, Pamela, Pamela, if you had your hand up, was it just to say that I wasn't sharing screen? Okay. Thank you. Anyone can just jump in for anything like that, please. Cause I'm, this is my first time doing a meeting that's hybrid like this. Okay. So let's pause here in terms of the screeners, the eligibility screeners. Here you can do. Okay. Yeah, just, just to refresh your memory and remind everyone. That this is one of the items and our charge that was specifically a part of our charge. From the town council. So we need to pay. Really good attention to this. Elitability criteria. Absolutely. And there's the question of like, how do we, how do we, how do we, how do we do this? But I think in terms of this eligibility screener. This is to. Determine. Also, if you're filling out the survey, for example, past or current residents of Amherst. Do we. Do we want the survey to be open to anybody who comes across it? Or do we want to. Do we want to have a certain, a certain section for students. Versus a permanent resident. Those are the kinds of things that we're looking at here. I think rather than. Trying to figure out how to limit it to certain. Constituencies is that. Wherever we have the section where folks can kind of identify. These questions you're raising. Then we can filter out. The survey results based upon whether they are year round residents, whether they're current residents, whether they are past residents, we can kind of then categorize those responses accordingly. But it's, I just feel it's going to be too hard to try and limit. Who is getting the survey and who is filling it out. That's a great point. I think Qualtrics. I think that's a great point. That's a great point. I think Qualtrics does though have the capacity to put in some of these screeners that would then pop people down to a different section, for example. So we can think about that if there are, you know. For example, we might. We may have certain questions that are specific for African descendants, slavery verse, you know, so we just want to kind of be thinking about that as we're moving through this. Would it be possible to see, maybe I'm someone who needs to work backwards in this way, but can we look at the examples from the Pew survey? Absolutely. Let me see. The main thing I'd say on that first one is a word like maybe restitution rather than repaid in some way. And, and I wouldn't put in the forms, whether in land or money, let's just first ask the question should do you think if you're wanting to ask that, but I don't even know if we need to ask that. I'm going to go to Dr. Rhodes because we had a pretty lengthy discussion with Carrie about that, that question. Dr. Rhodes. Just remember that these sample questions that you're seeing come from the Pew, which was a nationwide survey. And it was much broader and scope and in depth and had to include some of the national issues that would have been related to this. Those issues do not necessarily relate to us. But what we wanted to do was present some samples of questions that have been asked so that all of us could look at them. I mean, when we first looked at them, we didn't automatically eliminate a number of them, but there's it's good for us to look at them as a possibility for our survey and eliminate those that really do not apply because our own circumstance, i.e., we're under the charge of the Amherst Council. We have a specific charge and those charges in some ways relate to some national issues, but not in all ways. Thanks Dr. Rhodes. Yeah. I'm curious if other assembly members have thoughts on whether asking about the asking this broadly is essential for our survey and sort of the placement of a question like this. I'm curious, Alexis. I think to Dr. Rhodes point is so. As part of our charge and I'm sorry if I'm including you in my statement if you don't agree, Dr. Rhodes. Part of our charge, right, is to. Our plan is to develop and recommend a reparations plan specifically for our community wide process of reconciliation. And so I agree that like I almost feel like, well, if we're planning on doing this, the first one, I'm wondering like what is. Like how would we be using the answers to the first question, but even to the second question is like how much responsibility. Does the federal government or the state government have when like at the end of the day we're still needing to create this process for our community specifically. So. The brain pooped at the end of that, but basically, I feel like I agree that there's some things that I think almost are not necessary because of specifically what we're being charged to do some of these questions I mean. Yeah, that was my first response to I particularly the placement I didn't feel if anything I don't think it should be the priority or the focus. That's sort of more of what like a polling organization might do to look at these abroad thoughts about reparations. So we can certainly. We'll come back. Let's just keep moving. Yes, Pamela. You're muted Pamela. Oh, sorry it took me a minute. I'm just wondering whether one way that you might think about the questions is to think about what would be your ideal set of responses. Like what are you hoping what information are you hoping to gain from the survey, and then think about working backwards from that to help you develop your questions. I think that's an excellent suggestion to sort of identify some key pieces that we know that we are trying to get out of it. And I think as we these sort of stand out when we start to go through the rest of the questions. More of that is clear. But if we want to take a moment or two or 10, we can sort of identify I think our charge. Alexis, do you have the charge pulled up in front of you? Yeah. Would you mind just reading out what our charge asks of us. So it says the AHA shall develop and recommend to the town council a municipal reparations plan that includes both of reparations fund and a community wide process of reconciliation and repair for harms against black people. This will include one a plan for developing ongoing funding streams to repair past harms past harms. Okay. Past harms committed by the town against black people. An allocation plan including eligibility criteria which will be determined and approved by the broader Amherst black community through a census and community feedback process. So the eligibility criteria needs to be determined and approved by the broader Amherst black community. And then three additional means of repair for anti black structural and communal racism including public events and activities that prioritize truth telling and reconciliation. Another one, another charge is to coordinate with other groups working toward racial equity and Amherst to ensure collaboration. And then three to engage as appropriate community stakeholders such as the bid chamber of commerce, faith communities, and other organizations to develop extra municipal reparations efforts that align with and compliment the town's municipal reparations plan. And that includes a, all of that includes a final report at the completion of the assembly's work. Thank you. That's really helpful. Dr. Shbas. So in light of that, I would, Alexis just read, I think the key is to kind of get to the harm areas and to survey what are what are people seeing, what's coming up for folks as critical areas of historical and current harms and how might they best be addressed. So number five here sort of begins to get at that or as one way of looking at that and maybe on into six. But again, that's one way of looking at that. Maybe on into six, but again, the wording might be something to to look at differently, but I think that going back as well to the question of the values, you know, part of what I try to have inform my values is my sense of my culture, African culture that first of all led me to raise those who have gone on to the ancestral realm, like brother Bracey and brother Albert, but then the second kind of thing is to always give respect to the elders. So in this room, I can certainly stand as the elder and need not have permission to speak. But given that we were in the full virtual room, I was trying to give those who might have a few years on me the chance to share on the values first. But taking the room for a second, what I would really say is is that one of the critical harm areas that I think we've been trying to educate the community more around and is the area of the area of people hood. And that is the area that as I have said before is related to the question of dignity. How do we restore the dignity of people of African descent in Amherst that we are still in the harm of slavery because slavery stole that dignity. Slavery took our names. Slavery took our customs. Slavery took our languages. Slavery took our basic sense of ourselves as human beings. And instead told us we were nothing but a slave, the property of another person, the servant, someone here to serve another person with no interest of our own to serve, with no legacy, with no culture, with no nothing, if I may use a double negative. We had nothing of our own to serve. We had only our master to serve. Okay? The Dickinson's and the Kellogg's and the Strong's and the Jones and the Coles and so on. That's all we had to do was to serve them and through them glory in their glories. We had no glory of our own. We had no culture of our own to serve, no custom, no legacy of our ancestors to serve. We were just the servants of these other people who were dominant over us. That lives today in 2023. That still lives here in a town that has not a single street, a single place that upholds the memory of any people of African descent. We got a library at UMass. We got a building or two at Amherst College. Okay? We've got a trail from my former colleague in the Du Bois department. But that's it. No streets, no roads, no squares, no public markers, no historical markers, one for Shirley Graham Du Bois over by the Inn at Boatwood. This is deplorable. This is despicable. This is a continuation of the harm. So when are we gonna repair? And so for me, the harm area that I'd like to see both surveyed and I'd like to see us really begin to get a sense from the community so that we can write it up is how do we repair the assault on our peoplehood, our dignity as people of African descent in this place called Amherst? How do we do that? Okay? We've got organizations here doing great work. We finally got the Civil War tablets out of the storage after years of Dudley Bridges fighting for that. And now we have tools, we have, you know, where you can go and learn about how black and white we came together during the Civil War put in memorialized in these marble tablets. And we still seek a permanent home for that. But we've done, but we've been moving that forth. This is how we begin to repair. But how do we write that up? How do we operationalize that? How do we express the recommendation to the council that continued support be made for the Civil War tablets, for ancestral bridges, for a research center, for other work that helps to restore the dignity in Evanston. And as we'll see when the big payback comes, they have the short front legacy center. They have a center that preserves that is trying to reconstruct the lives of people, the connections to their past, their legacy to build on, that they did do great things here. And they've done great things in the world and they come from a great people. This is what I'd like to see. And this is what the value that really motivates me in doing this work. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. Yes. Yes, I'm just saying yes. Go right ahead. Yes, Dr. Rhodes. Dr. Shabazz, I really resonated with a number of your points. And I would like to point out. And I'm definitely elder of this group. And my presence here in Amherst has been very, very important. And my presence here in Amherst has been for years. Some 45, 50 years, I think. And one of the things that I have come to appreciate are the people who preceded me in Amherst, such as Deborah and her family. What I also want to acknowledge is that every last one of those areas that you pointed out in terms of grievances, damages, et cetera, were all to me and people that I know. My family and my history were all encouraged to not only fight and repair that, but not let that define who we are as a person. We are and we were and are continuing to be greater than the offenses committed upon us. Those offenses were more reflection of the depravity of those who did it, rather than a reflection of how we as a people overcame those and continue even to this day to overcome them, but not let them define us. We are not the sum of the grievances that we have. We are not the sum of those. We are greater than that sum. We have always been better than that. The legacy of what we stand, I mean, all those people, all of our ancestors who came before us, all the way back to Harriet Tubman and those people who came up with the underground railroad and those people who stood up under tremendous adversity and said, I am, and I am going to continue to be I am. That is not something that we should let pass and to have something say that, hey, we are the sum of that which punished us. Thank you, Dr. Rhodes. I'm going to just continue scrolling down here through these. So we had number five and you'll see a note here that says it will be extremely important to have examples that are under consideration for AHRA. So if we ask a question similar to this, what example, what do we want to have included underneath this question and I think this is something, of course, there's a catch all in the other, but do we have, we have our five injury areas? Yes, Alexis, I see your hand. I didn't mean to cut you off. Did you want to keep saying what you're, please go ahead. Okay. I think one thing that would be great to add is, is that sort of structure or place that is permanent for the past and ongoing history making of our black African American community members? Like the fact that so many of these, you know, historical pieces, many of which are, you know, being, you know, under the care of ancestral bridges, this bridges family. The fact that it like has to move and only be exhibited for a short or for an amount of time and you, you know, you have to go to these different places to go find it. And if there was a place that was permanent, that would make a lot of sense, I think. So do we have some language that we would want to include at the moment, or maybe that's just something that we let help anybody. If anything comes at any point, just we'll say it. And this is being recorded for us to go back and reference. All right. Dr. Shabazz gave me this great setting that makes things bigger, but I think I have to use this. So taking just a moment to read this question. And again, this is a broader question. So if we come down to question number seven, this is more. Excuse me, this is a more of a local localized question, but any one of these can be made. Alexis. So I, I'm feeling like the. And I understand that, you know, the context for this was different for the piece survey, but I'm almost feeling like the ways in which these are contributing. And like how would get us closer to, I mean, the fact that this has to be a consensus, right? I mean, I'm not sure if this is part of our charge or, or that we're, we're hearing from the larger black community of Amherst in order to get to these recommendations or these changes is hearing what is the way, not how much are the following systems needing to change, but it's like, what are the ways in which this has discriminated against you? That doesn't matter. But I think that that could potentially speak to, you know, specifically for folks who don't live here anymore, who are taking the survey potentially, but I think that that gets us closer to the repair rather than how much, if at all, because according to our harm areas, it's all of these and maybe some more. Yeah, and I think when you were reading the charge, I noticed it talked about past harms and you paused. So that's really important to, to, to recognize. Hala. I'm wondering if we could add educational system to these different things. I'm currently at a school that is founded in black liberation and it's being paid by reparation money currently and six of us graduated from Amherst. And when we just had a PD, we all related much of the harm that was done in our different days, different generations. And having been in the schools recently, I know that it's still happening. I don't know if we could add that not just as the other, but as a system. Thanks. Any other systems along that line? I'm sorry. Is this was this something? Is this a document that we can like not, I know we can't like add to it, but is this something that we can see on your own screen right now? No, like, like later. Definitely. Yes. Yeah. And also I could send it to everyone right now real quick, or share it because now that we're in a meeting, that's okay to do, right? So if you wanted to look at it on your own screen, it's from this point on, it will be in our packet. So that won't be a problem, but I can. Yeah. So, yeah. So, while when the next person goes to speak, I will share it out with everybody. In the packet. Oh, with this. Not with this yet. Okay. So, um, great. So this again, um, sort of back to what you were saying, Alexis, like in terms of. You know, or, uh, yes, Dr. Rhodes. You're muted. Dr. Rhodes. I'm muted. I was just talking to myself. I always do that when I see expert information. Anyway, um, when Alexis, you asked really, and you pointed out something really important. Yes. This document should be circulated to everyone. Of the age, RA so that we can get feedback in terms of how you would like to see these questions stated. Uh, and any other feedback because we are going to be hot on this because we have a tight timeline. In terms of getting these questions, uh, you know, uh, refined and then submitted back to the Donnie who is too, which are then going to come back to us and say, well, we might have a problem with where you're. Stating this question, et cetera. So yes. Please. Give us the feedback. We really, really encourage them when we need it. I'm just going to ask for just a moment recess so I can go ahead and share that out so that you can all look at it on your own screen. Just take me a second. Sure. Yeah. Let's do a two minute recess. That's great. Two minute recess. Thanks, Dr. Spas. So we're returning and you can just turn your camera back on when you're ready to return. And so now everyone should have a link to that document in your email, um, including Jennifer and Pamela. So you can, if you want to follow along on your own computer. And just so that you have it. Could either of you speak to her or. Michelle. Um, In the discussion with MD. Uh, Evanston and whatever surveying process. They might have done. I know there's also Providence, but are there any things coming up differently in those surveying efforts from, um, from this Pew survey, if you could speak to that. Um, I would say that we did see some sample questions from Evanston survey that, uh, That the folks from Donahue were able to find, they were based around housing specifically. So it seemed as if maybe that survey was developed in tandem to what their first repair initiative was. Um, and I'm not sure, and that would have been a good question to ask Robin today, but I'm not sure. If they developed a community wide survey. Like we're doing, you know, as part of their lead up to their legislation being passed. If I remember from the big payback, something was mentioned about how they got to housing as the priority that there was some feedback process. Uh, what exactly it was. I don't know. Yeah, I think in their town halls and in the, the reparations committee that they had established, that was the, uh, harm area that because they had red lining. Um, that was the, the harm area that they focused on initially or are still focused on. Um, but we were not able to find any survey from Evanston. That was more broad or holistic. It was very focused on the housing pieces. Um, and then of course, as you said, Providence does have a survey. Um, and the Donahue has the, the information on that as well. Um, did you see that one, Dr. Schwarz? Yeah, you've seen that one. Okay. Uh, Dr. Rhodes, you have your hand raised. Should have been lowered. Okay. Well, wait a minute. Actually what I want to say is that this. Developing of the questions is one of the most important tasks. That we have before us in terms of this survey. There is a saying in terms of surveys. Garbage and garbage out. So whatever we want, what is, whatever is important to us to know that we, we want to know for ourselves and for what the town needs to know. We need to have those questions in there. The questions that you have that you, you know, that you think should be asked, ask those questions. We can then look at them and then reference those questions in and put them into a format and turn in terms of that, which will be a survey format in terms of the questions because our question is asked as well as what the content of the question is asked is important. Alexis. Okay. Um, I being that we have a hard stop at a, um, I, I, I definitely, I didn't want to be one of the first people to speak. Um, exactly for, you know, what Dr. Shabazz said is like, I'm, I'm the youngest here and I wanted to definitely hold space for everyone else to go first. Um, but maybe it would be helpful for me to just break the seal. So, um, wait, sorry, what was that? Um, so I guess I, and it's like, I'm really trying to be like succinct. That's, that's not my strongest, um, trait. Um, so. Um, I would just like to say that when I, I was actually in a band meeting, um, and the talk of, you know, the AHRA before everybody got appointed, conversations were being brought up. Um, and I was actually asked by, um, because I happened to be the youngest person at the meeting. I was asked if I would be interested in serving on the AHRA. Um, and I brought up the question, like, is this something that someone like me, like is, should I, being someone who is not visibly identical, identifiable as a, as a African-American person. Um, is, is this right for me? Um, should, do I, do I have any or, you know, really like, should I be in this place? Um, and I was encouraged by folks to be here, though I'm, I am someone who generally, you know, race has always, especially, you know, having a black mother and living with my black family. Um, race has always been a conversation. Um, since, you know, as, as long as I could talk, you know, um, because, you know, you're always asked questions like, where's your mommy? No, where's your real mommy? Or, you know, um, you know, even in first grade when, um, and I grew up with the black friends because my family was black. And that's just how it happened. And I, you know, in first grade, you get asked by kids, like, you know, um, or, or, you know, they say certain things like, you know, your friend is dirty because they look black and I'm like, but I'm black. And then they're like, well, you don't look like it. And so there's this very like, there, there seems to be this conscious notion of, of race specifically with how people are visibly identifiable as certain things. And so I'm aware that I live a very different lived experience from my mother, right? Um, we would get followed around in stores at the Hampshire mall. Um, getting asked if we're going to like steal things. If I'm not with her, I get treated a very different way, given I did experience plenty of anti-Asian racism, surprisingly, in growing up in Amherst. Um, that was rather surprising to find out people are identifying me as Asian. But with that being said, you know, like, you know, the question of like thinking about your own experience, have you ever personally experienced discrimination or being, been treated unfairly because of your race and ethnicity? And I think that it's fair to say that like Amherst is in no way, you know, um, different. Um, we, I think that we really like to believe that we are, but we're really not. Um, and in the ways in which we sort of, you know, the ways in which we suppress these conversations is, is largely based on, um, well, that doesn't make me feel good. Well, none of it makes us feel good at all. Um, and so I think it's really important that we're able to have these types of conversations and really identify the ways in which we are treated differently. Um, there's, and for people to say, you know, for anybody to say, you know, I'm not racist, I say word. I mean, really? Because even I'm having to unlearn things that, you know, we were taught because, you know, when I took African American literature or whatever or history classes, they were taught by white folks who definitely allowed students to say the N word and all sorts of other stuff. Um, and so there's, and I'm glad, um, how like you brought up, you know, the educational system because we're really like, we're, nothing can really change if we're not starting at, at, you know, the sources of these institutions and, and that's educational system. That's the policing system. That's, you know, I have family. I have friends who are incarcerated in Hampshire County, right? So we, and it's black folks, right? So we're, you know, I think that it's so easy for us to pretend like things are okay because we're not in constant conversation with folks. Um, and we're always having to have these conversations amongst ourselves rather than, um, in spaces that are, um, intentionally built, um, for, for this repair to happen. Um, so for me, it's extremely important, like, and I'm, I'm trying not to sound very radical because I really am. I like at the end of the day, I'm like a burn the stuff down sort of person. And I really am trying to be not that way because we have to be creative in this community rather than burning things down. So with all of that being said, I feel like our charge has been very large or rather it is for us to be able to contribute to this, right? Like the charge itself is to recommend to the town council a reparations plan with a community wide process of reconciliation for the repair for harms against black folks. That is, that's huge. Right. Um, that's, of course, that's not us, you know, repairing racism. But at the end of the day, the, the goal is to further the goals of the resolution of the town council. Of the commitment to end structural racism. Um, and, and this is a huge task. That is in so many ways not dependent on us. And is dependent on the folks with the power to change those things. Um, and so I am constantly looking at power structures. I'm constantly looking at these things, you know, I. And I'm going to wrap this up. I've already been talking for a minute, but I. You know, I come from a black folk who had, you know, my, my grandma was the director of the ball, the James Baldwin scholars program at Hampshire college. She was the director of the writing center at UMass. My grandfather, Jim DeShields was the specialist assistant to the chancellor, um, Bill Bromery. And, and yet, even with these, you know, Um, degrees and all these other things, you know, they were having to deal with not getting paid by these institutions or getting treated a certain way or, you know, not having access to things. And so it's, you know, there's, there's the way that we carry ourselves, right? And yet just the, the inevitable of having to constantly just defend your humanity. And, and that speaks to the dignity piece, right? Like who wants to have to constantly try to convince somebody to care about you or, or even treat you like they would treat their other neighbors. Um, and so it's. I just, I'm hearing so much and I, I feel this and I know this because it's my family, but like there's so much pain. There's so much pain that's so that our community is holding, you know, um, and so I really want to hold space for that. Um, and, and I really think that it's important that, that our community as a, as a whole is holding space for that. Um, and holding it in a very sensitive way. So for example, right, like, um, and that till, um, they have a, um, a museum exhibit. Um, and they chose in, I think this isn't, this is in DC. And they chose not to show the picture of his face. Right. That was a very intentional decision, although it was an extremely crucial, um, part of the civil rights movement. It was intentional not to show his face because these are traumatizing and triggering things that we're constantly like how, how often in school did you see during like learning about even like MLK during, you know, elementary school. Did you see images of black folks being lynched? And like, there's no even thought about how triggering and like scary that is, you know, we grow up thinking like, you know, in Amherst, that you're, you have to hide from the KKK. Like the KKK is like a really big question. And at the end of the day, yes, there, we know that there are some Klan members around here, but you know, it's, it's like a fear thing. It's gripping and you're constantly reminded like, look, this is how we treated you and we got away with it. And we, you know, some laws were made, but it just, it's shifted the way in which you're being hunted and the way that you're being treated has, has just shifted. Sure, you're not being called slaves, but now we're putting you in the prison system and you don't have the right to vote and you're doing essentially slave labor and that, you know, we, there was a big controversy in our schools about how we were using prison labor to repair chairs in the auditorium. And so it's, you know, it's, it's constant. And it's changing and it's, it's sophisticated. And so we're working with a very sophisticated institution. And the institution is whiteness at the end of the day, right, because I can't, I'm at the end of the day, we're talking about you know, institutions. Because without race, right, knowing that that's a social construct, there is no white or black, right, and whiteness has shifted whiteness has changed to, you know, envelop more groups as it's needed to evolve. And so being that that is, you know, we have to be aware of all of these things if we're going to get even close to any sort of repair. So there's so many things that I'm thinking about. And so many ways in which I'm hoping that we can, you know, that we're sensitive or that I'm, I want to be sensitive in this work. And I want to make sure that we're being inclusive to all the different facets of, of, you know, the black experience. Because it's, it's all so it's, it's not just painful, right. It's, it's deliberate and it's genocide. And it's, it's all of these other things. And so all of that to say I'm hoping to bring these sort of values and really uplift my own family's history and really honor my ancestors who've lived here since 68. And being a descendant of, you know, enslaved folks. Because I also, I don't, I don't even know where we're from in Africa. You know, that's the dealio. But anyways, so I'm really hoping to bring those sort of values to the table. And I hope that that is in lightning in any sort of way. I'm gonna stop now. Thank you. Thank you, Alexis. Dr. Rhodes, I saw Ms. Bridges hand go up and then down before yours came up. So I just would like to go to Ms. Bridges and then we'll come to you, Dr. Rhodes. I think you're muted, Ms. Bridges. I wanted to say very quickly to Alexis. Yep, you're muted again, Ms. Bridges. Here I am. I'm always what? Good job. I wanted to say to Alexis. I used to work for your grandfather at Whitmore. And he taught me so much. And a lot of what you're saying, I could, I heard his voice. He was amazing. I just wanted to let you know that I never knew that he, he, I started working for Whitmore. He taught me how to do budgets. And then he said, yes, you can do this. He taught me spreadsheets. He said, don't let anybody tell you you can't. And from there, I went on to work for the state and did budgets. And I just wanted to let you know when you say, I was like, wait a minute. He was amazing. He helped me so, so much. So I just wanted to let you know that. Dr. Rhodes. Yeah, Alexis, I really resonated with a lot of what you said. Because I come from a blended family. My daughter by Penny and us is biracial. Her daughter, my daughter is white. And when, and when they were both in elementary school and middle school, et cetera, when one parent would walk in, there would be one reaction. Then another parent would walk in. There would be another reaction. I imagine if my white daughter, I walk into a teacher conference for the first time, because my wife couldn't be there. What the reaction would be. And then the opposite for a penny walking in with our daughter to a parent conference for the first time. The reactions were obviously quite different. Our children had quite different experiences. And some of those different experiences based upon their race. And, and, and that's, that's something that is one of these artifacts of growing and being a part of Amherst. And yes, some of them are very painful. And a lot of different ways. And and when I look back on it, they were lessons to be learned. And also lessons that we're not only learning, but also make sure that they never repeated themselves. But what I realized that is that they were not repeated for my family. But that did not mean that they were not repeated for other families. And so I really appreciate what you said, Alexis. And again, as we go through these questions, it'll be hard to tease out those kinds of responses. But what we really need to document is how the African American population that was here and is here as experienced Amherst. And that is something that we really must make sure we capture in this survey. And along that line. Because we will be sending this out to the broad community. The broader community. We want to make sure that we're getting what we were really reaching the folks that we want to reach in terms of our charge. And so I'm really curious what folks think about because this survey is essentially going out to residents of African heritage and then also to everyone else. And so what are we trying to get from everyone else? And how is that different than what we're trying to get. Or would like to see, you know, or would like to gather from residents of African heritage. Right. What I think part of it is what her just was saying. So within the community of people of African descent, it's it's really the question of. You know, what has it been like to be in this town to live in this town? What kind of experiences and you know what could make this place more, more livable? What could make this place more attractive? What would make this place more just in terms of people of African descent living here. So I think that's clear. I think as far as the larger community around that, it's similar, but it's, you know, how. Well, I don't even want to go there because I really think that the core of this survey is trying to get at the voice of people of African descent, those beyond that who want to participate and give us feedback through the survey. I think that's fine. You know, there should be space for them to to register, you know, whatever comments they want to register. But I think for the purposes of the report, we're charged with writing what we really after is trying to get the people of African descent. Alexis. Oh, thank you. Is it. Is it crazy. To ask folks how they're. I don't know. The one thing that I keep thinking about is the need for participation. Not in terms of this survey, but in terms of the repair. So how do we, you know, because the repair piece is so huge, right. And how do we say like, Oh, well, the town council has decided, you know, personally that each of them are going to work towards repair. But like that doesn't mean any like, I almost never see you. In life here, and we live in the same town, right. There's so many more folks that we encounter every day. And so like, how do we, how do we engage. The rest of the town into the repair piece. And I don't know if there's any part of the survey that can. Bring them into that. I don't know. I don't know, but I'm thinking about that. So, two quick points, one, just as a follow up to Dr. Shabazz, I think. As you review the questions, you should think about the sequence of how they're asked. I mean, I'll take some time to sort of review them. I, you know, I don't want to, didn't want to take the time to try to do it tonight because I really want to spend some time to think about it. But I think a couple of things like thinking about which questions would go, would be appropriate for everyone who's taking the survey and which questions are more appropriate. We address to people of African heritage or who are going to participate in the survey. And Qualtrics has the ability, as you mentioned, Michelle earlier, to ask a question and have people skip and then go to different sections. So I think that's really important. And then Alexis, as you were reading the charge and in your last comment, I just thought, you know, one of the things that is occurring in the town and I think would be a part of the report is the work that Jen and I are doing in the, you know, Office of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. So we did roll out that National Day of Racial Healing event and with a commitment to, at a minimum, have an event every other month. So that would be a, you know, working, collaborating with us or at least reporting on the work that we are doing, I think would also be a part of the report as well. Thank you, Pamela. Yes. Sorry, Jennifer. My mic wasn't on. So I just feel like in regards to what Alexis was saying, there needs to be a lot of education, right? Because, and a lot of it needs to come from the top up from a lot of different silos that are here in the community because we can do this and then the council can be anti-racist. Yes, I used to air quotes, but that doesn't matter if Tom Dick and Harry and Becky, Harry and Sherry are racist, right? So there's just a large amount of education that needs to go out to the general public, right? Because that backlash from people who don't necessarily believe in reparations. I mean, we're going to always run up against those people, but there's like a backlash to a certain degree. And so I think that there's a piece of education that needs to happen in coinciding with as we're going through this process and as the DEI department is going through their process, like they're just, and it needs to be like a town, more of a town-wide effort versus a council effort. I really appreciate that. Jennifer, just if I could ask you a follow-up on that, do you see in the survey a possibility for including a question that would get at how residents feel that education, how could that education, maybe that's something for us to think about, right? How does that happen? Because we're all learning differently. We are all coming from different experiences. And so what are we talking about, you know, having symposiums versus education that is hands-on versus, you know, education for children. So I do wonder how we might kind of pull that out. I mean, I think it has to be all of that and more, right? But it does because the way that people are, the way that the racism is so subtle here sometimes, right? It's like going into CVS and being followed or, you know, like having this person look at you funny or not moving out for the sidewalk because they don't feel like they need to because they're privileged and you're not, or they feel like they're privileged and you're not. So there's just a, there's a, it has to be spread around in a lot of ways. And there's no age limit to it or, you know, younger age or older age limit to it because we all carry our own isms. We all carry our own biases and it doesn't need to just go necessarily to the folks who aren't African-American. I mean, I have talked to people who don't necessarily think that they who are black, who don't necessarily believe in reparations. So there's like, you know, an educational piece that needs to happen across the board and how we roll that out is a combined effort. It's not like just the AHRA takes that on. It's not that just DEI takes that on. It's that DEI, AHRA, CSSJC, HRC, the bid, the chamber, the school system. Like it is a, it's like a town-wide effort. That's a recommendation right there. And just to sort of, I'm going to go to you, Dr. Rhodes, just, but just to speak quickly to Pamela's point. I had the opportunity today to speak with Earl Miller. And we talked, I wasn't able to attend the healing sessions that have occurred, either of them. And we talked quite a bit about that. And I really think that that start, that having started is so critical. I mean, the stories that I have heard that have come out of those two sessions, just when we're talking about healing, it's really, really significant what I've heard from folks who participated in those sessions. Dr. Rhodes. Yeah, it's important for us to capture all voices. Obviously we have to pay particular attention to the African-American and Black experience here in Amherst, because that's obviously what we're being asked to do. But it's also important for us to know what the wider community thinks about reparations. And we are, and as it's currently going on, we will, in this survey, be able to capture that. So both things are being able to be captured so that we can see those different constituencies. And so we can see, hey, here's what African-Americans think about reparations in Amherst as one topic, but then also some other topics related to reparations. We will be able to capture that. We also will be able to capture what the larger community thinks about reparations. And that's important for us to know. And if we didn't know that, then we would be derelict in our duties in terms of ignoring that, because it's really, really important to have that information. Dr. Shabazz and then Alexis. So I'm hearing a couple of things just from previous speakers. One is how the report, so this goes beyond just, I don't know that this gets to an item in the survey, but really more our report writing, which as Michelle has said, it is happening now. We're in that process now. So what I'm hearing is, is how the report might speak to support or call out in some way efforts that are occurring now that are, that we look upon as part of a reparative justice process, part of the process of healing, the process of equity building, that we want to support, again, going back to our charge of how do we fight systemic racism? How do we end it here in Amherst? There are certain things we want to represent in the report. I would just say one thing that would be helpful then, and I guess I direct this to Pamela and Jen relative to the office of diversity, equity and inclusion. If there's a way in our Google Drive or a way that you can funnel certain particular areas you want to highlight, if there are any summaries or if there's any feedback information that you could highlight of say of the healing work, the national day of healing or other healing work that's ongoing since then, therefore we can then have that available to us to write up the paragraph or to write up that part of, we want to acknowledge these things are going on in the town and we want to highlight that as we see it in the ongoing work of repair, these items ought to continue. These items ought to be supported. I would just say if we could get that from your office, that would be helpful relative to the alphabet soup that was mentioned. I think we are trying to follow some of those suggestions, particularly with regard to the community safety and social justice committees work. They have called out things that I think we are definitely going to want to encounter in our report. And so where that body continues to advocate and work toward and support the idea of a multicultural center and a youth empowerment center, I think in some way our report ought to be out to have some reflection, may want to have some reflection on those in particular as to how they may serve or how from our survey and from our work, we would feel that those, that what is called for relates to what our findings are in terms of youth work for youth of African descent or youth or empowerment work or multi, again, how does the multicultural center relate to the black cultural center that we want, the cultural center research museum, ancestral bridges space, that we are talking about, that we are going to highlight in the report. How does that relate to that? Could it be on the same facility in the same site? Do we think they ought to be in separate spaces? You know, those are the kinds of things that think we are going to want to do overall in the report and whether there are items in the survey, which we are dealing with tonight, that should grapple with that. I'll take more time to think about, but I do think that there is overlap. I'm going to go to Pamela, but I do want to just say one thing here. Since ancestral bridges has been evoked many times tonight, I wanted to take the opportunity to let folks know that Councillor and Eka Lopes will be joining us on Monday at our meeting. And so she will have the opportunity to speak about her work and the work of ancestral bridges. And then we will have the opportunity together to talk about ways in which we can be in collaboration if that's so desired. So just wanted to mention that. And so I'm going to go to Pamela to, I think, respond to Dr. Shabazz, and then we'll go to you, Alexis. So just quickly, I'll be happy to provide the assembly with all of that information. We're actually in the midst of gathering it because the town manager is scheduled to report to the town council on a number of similar issues. And we do have a survey data from the National Day of Rehabilitation Healing for both the event that was held for staff and for the community. And as part of that survey, asked individuals to give permission to share the publicly and most did so I can get that information to you. I can't hear Alexis. No. Can't hear you either. Well, something's terribly wrong with Alexis. It's really good to see a young person struggling with this. No, I think it's because Jennifer might be on mute. Is she running the system? Because it shows that she's muted. And so we can't hear you. And she on. I'm really glad you with us, Pamela, by the way. How about now? Yes. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. So. Talking about how we would, you know, the purposes and how like, how the information from non-black folks would be helpful to us. I think it makes sense. Probably in the context of what we were talking about, about the efforts that D. I are doing is, is D. I is doing. With regards to, so like, would it be helpful to know. Whoever has filled this out. If they have attended. One of these sessions. Or would it be helpful for us to know. How they feel about reparations because we intend to use that in order to. Say, hey, town, this is how many people are feeling this way. And this is why we need to do these things. Or, you know, what is, what is the way in which we're like using the information? I think we'll be way better in informing. Not just the questions that we're asking those specific people, but like. I don't know how we would use, for example, like, do you think reparations would be helpful? I don't know how we would use, for example, like, do you think reparations. To black folks should be a thing. Like how, how do we intend to use that for our charge, which is to do this thing. So, yeah. Yeah. And I've really been struggling with that question. Quite a bit. And. You know, one example is there may be folks in the community who feel like the money that has been set aside for reparations should go to systems rather than to people. I just give that as an example. And so with that information, does that inform, you know, and this is again where we come back to our values and what we're recommending, you know, what we're recommending. Does that inform the sort of reparative proposals? Or. Like how much are we centralizing voices that are not residents of African heritage? And I really think we want to think. Through that. Because I do agree with Dr. Rhodes that getting everybody's voices is something that's, it's the harm to community that we're addressing here. So I think, you know. Well, and, and we've already decided that we're doing this. Right. And, and in the charge, it says that the allocation plan. Needs to be determined and approved by the broader Amherst black community. Not from those outside of the community. So yeah, I think that based on our charge. I think that whatever we're doing in terms of the reconciliation and repair and the funding has to be approved by the broader Amherst black community, not those outside of the community. But I think that we could get useful information in terms of. Who are we reaching? Who are we not reaching in terms of this education piece? Probably. And I honestly like if. If the broader community outside of the black community was like, I don't think the reparations had happened and we followed that. Isn't that just continuing on the cycle that. We're trying to fight. Yeah, but. Dr. Rhodes, do you want to respond to that? And then I'm going to. Obviously, obviously those people who are opposed to this. Will make their food. We don't know that. We do not have to be. To stick our hand in the sand. We don't want to hear. What other people think those people who are against reparations, even though. What they, even though we know. That what they think about this has no bearing on our charge. Because we want to hear from black folks. But it is always good to know. What the broader community thinks. Now, why is that important? My hope is. That the reparations last way beyond our expiration date. And that we continue to raise funds way beyond our expiration date. And that's going to take knowing the will of black people. But the good will for those who are not black. And we know who our allies. Thanks, Dr. Rhodes. I'm going to take Dr. Shabazz and then I'm looking at the time. I just wanted to check in. Yeah. There was one piece, a quick review of the demographics that had been identified that I wanted folks to just review and comment on. So we'll go to Dr. Shabazz. And then if we have time, we'll, we'll do that. Michelle, we definitely need to come back to what you just said. Yes. Agreed. Very, very quickly. You know, there are questions that I'm thinking relative to the report. And we're talking about the survey as an education piece, which I don't know that we ought to burden the survey with, with being a part of the way in which we're educating the community. But I guess everything we do is educating, but. I think we're trying to get real feedback. So for example, the question really becomes, you know, what about the idea of an independent black stakeholder? Okay. Group such as in Evanston. All right. Where monies can actually go to a black. Control black directed group, not the town of hammers. You know, and whether that's something that ought to be asked in this survey. Also the question of the ongoing. Whether there is an ongoing instrument through the town. That ought to be, you know, continued to have an ongoing charge or whether when this committee, this assembly group wraps up, whether we're, whether we're done. And that, and we don't see projecting. Is that a question that we ought to be asking in this, in this survey or not. And then finally the. You know, if, if, if some sort of effort from the town ought to continue, not crest, not the office of equity and inclusion, not other committees already existing human rights commission, CSS JC, but rather something specifically around this, what, what is the charge? What is the, what is the nature of that ongoing group through the town? These are the questions that is as Michelle and I have gone to Evanston and as we followed some of the work of first repair commission. And I think we've seen a lot of work going on in other communities. This is what we're seeing is, is coming up a lot is that people are, are, you know, the, the, the town or the city becomes the jumping off point for a reparative process, but it doesn't, it's not the be all end all it moves toward, you know, dealing directly with the people of African descent, directly with the community of harm is, we ought to be trying to get at in the survey. I leave that for you all to think about. Those are great questions. Okay, so I'm going to direct us, I'm going to share a screen again. I'd like us just to review this demographic list to see if it includes all of the demographics that we would, would like to look at and also if there are what's missing. Does it make sense to include whether or not they are a home owner or a renter. If we're talking about housing discrimination. Or even income discrimination. And then also where you're putting the residents. Say that one more time. I think that that's, yeah, there are going to be some. Yeah, right. That's right. Yep. Is that a number or is that a location? There is a section on that. There will be. There's, I think there were some just basic like residency, like where you live, you know, questions. And then this was additional demographic pieces. And of course, as we all know, the only question is, is voluntary. And so, I don't know about student status and educational attainment. I guess one is, you know, I definitely see student status because we want to disaggregate who's responding to the survey in relation to whether they are part of one of the three institutions of higher ed or whether they are, you know, or not in part of the student community. Since that really out that for the African-American community, it's that student community that out numbers the year round residents, let us be clear, especially the UMass numbers that out numbers the year round black residents of Amherst. So that's an important, but I don't know about educational attainment, whether that's a question to be, to be asked here. Can I follow up and just say, if you kept educational attainment, I would eliminate education. I don't think you need both of those, like one or the other. Exactly. Agreed. Agreed. Great. Is there anything else that's missing here? And yeah. So how do you like differentiate if you're like a student, but you're a resident. You're a permanent resident who's also a student. That's a good point. Yeah. Right. Interesting question. I don't know how we capture that. Let's think about it. I have one more. Are we going to ask folks, particularly the black folks, why they left Amherst? Yeah. That's not a question. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think we want to think about developing some open ended questions and giving space for that. For folks who do want to participate in that way. We may even consider other, like. This is doing the creative thing. I think. Like, for example, if somebody wants to participate, they want to show it to us in some other way. Is there a way on this survey that we can accommodate. That. Possibility. I think that's an accessibility thing. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So I think. Like for example, if somebody wants to talk into a voice recorder for us. And speak their experience because that's the way that they can best articulate or they want to show it to us in some other way. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So I, so we'll, that's another question we have to. To think about. Okay. So it's eight o'clock here. Is everybody available to meet on Monday. March 6th at 2pm. I may have a, I don't know the exact timeframe of what I'm doing is going to interfere or not, or whether I can do it from in the car or wherever I am. But there may be an issue for me on Monday. Okay. Keep us posted on that. You'll keep us posted on that. Okay. Any other conflicts on Monday at 2pm. I have like a really quick. Phone call at 2pm. Okay. But yeah. What might there be a better time on Monday. That would work. Any time after 230 for me. Okay. Does that help you at all? No. Okay. You're kind of up in the air. Yeah. Okay. All right. Why don't we'll, we'll just keep just for sort of keeping consistency. We'll keep our two o'clock and then we'll, we'll try to take up some things in the beginning that are just more. Announcement type things. Are there any other comments, questions. Before we adjourn. Just mark for future reference as we revised this document. Our three areas of. Of identity. Lineage and residents. So for the, within the community of people of African descent. And relative to this repair process, those three questions are kind of the critical questions to get at. So lineage that is to your knowledge, do you trace to an ancestor that was enslaved in the United States? To the question of. Of identity, you know, how do you identify as a person of African descent or, or in addition to other identities or, or, or not. And then thirdly, the residents. Do you currently live in Amherst? So those are, those are just some of the. Critical ones that we've, we've discussed before that I think need to be incorporated in this. And they are. Dr. Shabazz, if we could talk about that a little bit more in terms of how to develop the questions and whether we want to have any of those screeners or whatever to, so that we can pull particular. Like lineage out or, or something that would be great. Dr. Rhodes. No, I was just wondering after. With Dr. Shabazz is, yeah, it's all those three things are questions that I know that we have already had in there in some way. It's the particular way in which, what they're, and which they are going to be entered. That is important. But certainly they need to be in there. And I think that's for me. It's intellectually of being really important to see how that. Comes out in the data. I think all of us will be in front of the surprise. Okay. Well, thank you everyone. This has been really, really rich and informative and just appreciate that we did this hybrid. Hopefully we can. Maybe. Yeah, nice to be in person and also great that folks who needed to be at home could be at home. So, and I just want to say that I miss Yvonne. I really miss Yvonne's presence. So hopefully we'll have it. We'll have a chance to catch her up. So I am adjourning the meeting at eight oh four p.m.