 things LGBTQ plus youth edition. Today is April 22nd, 2019, and we're going to be talking about good representation and bad representation. My name is Jules Caserta. I use them pronouns to my right is. I'm Naven. I use he, him pronouns. I'm Piper and any pronouns. All right, so to start off, let's talk about the common problems we see in media when it comes to all forms of representation. Obviously, we are all Caucasian, so we cannot really talk about certain representations, but we can talk about the queer kind. So let's do it. Common problems we see. Token gay guy. Token gay guy. Yeah, especially for gay men, it's like their entire personality. It's the one trait is just gay. Yeah, it's like they know a lot about fashion. They're sassy. I hate that word. I'm sassy. Yeah, they're like sassy. They're like flamboyant. They're often like, I feel like this is a feminine gay guy. Like, there's obviously there's nothing wrong with that. Right, but it's just like not. The token, like the go-to. Yeah, the first time I saw that was in the show Glee, which aired in 2009, and it was a character Kirk Hummel, and he was just, his trait was gay, and he sings. That's literally it. And it was like, he got some character results, because it ran for a very long time, but the first thing I knew about him was gay. They didn't even say it, but you could just like know that they were making him into that guy, and then later on they said it, but like the minute you see him you're like, he's gonna be the gay guy. Yeah, I mean like the problem with that kind of representation is not like, yeah, you have a gay character, and it's not like necessarily negative. You're like not portraying them in a negative way, but it's also like gay people are more than just gay? I'm just gay. Just what I am. I have no other personality, no other traits. I'm just queer. Yeah, exactly. Like they're like actual people, just like straight people. They just have different forms of attraction, or like are attracted. Yeah. And I mean, Glee is actually an interesting show when it comes to representation, because in the beginning they just like did all the tokens, like you had the token gay guy, you had the main pretty white girl, obviously, just who you had, you had the, there was like a quiet, nerdy Asian, and like throughout time they started to get like as, as the world kind of progressed, so did the show, because again it started in 2009. So they started to like get more characters. There was a lesbian couple for a little while, not very the healthiest lesbian couple, but it was there. So it's a very interesting show to talk about, and then there's also the obvious lesbian stereotype, which is the butch lesbian. I've seen butch lesbian, and I've also seen like very sexualized lesbian couples. I hate it. Yeah. Yeah. You want to talk about that? I know you two can. That sounds really, that's uncomfortable, but yeah. Very sexualized lesbian. Yeah, no, I feel like lesbians are over-sexualized. It's like straight guys who are like lesbians are hot. Yeah. And then like, I mean, I can't either. I mean, I can't either. Fetishized gay men is like straight women who are like that's hot. It's like, it's like they fetishize it, but then they also like pretend to be an ally. Oh, but they actually, they aren't, they just think it's like hot. Yeah, it's like, they're like, I support you because I read some fan fiction about it, and it's like, it's not what support is. Yeah, I'm gonna go and get mad if people call them out, and I don't know, it's just a whole lot of bad. I'm gonna go and get mad. I like all of your totally not safe, like all these not safe for work things, like I'm so bad. Yeah, so there's that, there's that kind of, like you, especially on like social media platforms, you like, kind of go into like the fandom community and you kind of have a few queer ships, and then suddenly you're like in this place of like what the hell is going on. It's all just super sexual, and it's like, oh my god. It's like, so because it's like, it's bad rep because it's really, it's all sexualized. It's so sad and disappointing on so many levels. Stripping them of the personality. Yeah. Making them either just the gay guy or just this like sexual thing. Yeah. That's really sad. One common thing I've seen, especially with like gay relationships, I think I've seen it a few times with lesbian relationships, but like the relationship dynamic is very abusive. It's like a weird power dynamic in it. Yeah, it's like, yeah, there's like this, like one guy is like bigger, usually, like sometimes older, like a very uncomfortable age gap, so there's this older... Call me by your name, Koff Koff. Legitimately Koff. I Koff when I'm surprised. So you'll just have like this older guy and like an uncomfortable age gap, like so this older guy might be like 30 or something, and then this younger guy's like maybe 19, and like, sure, it's legal, doesn't mean it's like... It's always a weird power dynamic. Yeah, it's always weird, and like the older guy's like controlling, and the younger guy's like really submissive, and it's seen as like really hot, and I've seen like that sort of relationship dynamic like sexualized and fetishized a lot. So fun fact, I'm a teenager, obviously, and I'm growing up in the day it is now. We have social media, we have like fandoms, we have that place, and I was... There were two stories that I have. There was one where I was in fandom, I was ashamed for having a straight ship, and I was like, I was confused, because first of all, like I'm clearly queer. I think it's pretty obvious. I'm wearing a rainbow dress, I'm doing this, and like I don't hide that online either. So if you like look at anything I've ever done, it's just gay, and they were like, you aren't supporting LGBTQ rights by having a straight ship, and I was like, that's not me. It's like so weird. It was just bizarre, because it was like reversed. It was like backwards. I was like, I'm used to being ashamed for being queer, but like what's going on? Yeah. And then it's another time. It was another time where it was like, you're fetishizing the sexuality, and I'm like, this is my own sexuality. Like I'm not fetishizing it, I'm craving representation. Yeah. And it's just, because then there are those people who sexualize it, they then come, and they like start to like infiltrate the nice places, and it's like, stop. But you're talking about age gap. And I know you and I have discussed Call Me By Your Name, and I know you have feelings on it. Share feelings now. I have never seen Call Me By Your Name. I've read a lot about it. I believe one of them's 17, the other's like 25, 24, something like that. And I just... 17 is underage, too. 17 is underage, and it's just so gross and uncomfortable. I don't know. I just hate that so much. I don't understand if you're just gonna have a sexual relationship where one person's underage. It's just like, why are you doing that? I just hate that so much. Also, it wouldn't really change the story if you made them a little bit older. Yeah. If you just change the age, it's not gonna affect a lot. Why do you have to choose that age? Why the age gap? I know the movie is based off a... I'm sorry. I know the movie is based off a book, right? And the movie is kind of like what picked up a lot of traction. So they were probably going off the book, but just for the book, like why? Yeah. Like literally what purpose does it serve? And then, going back a little bit to the end of the community, because I just thought of something, you see an abundance of gay white guy ships. They're like the only ships out there, and they're always like these two white guys that literally have no reason to be shipped, but they're just doing it because they're two gay white guys. Yeah. And it's just like, do you not see that that's literally all I see is just people because two white guys share, are in the same room, suddenly it's a gay ship. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally just because they're white and people finish eyes like gay guys. And another thing is like I've seen a lot of people just shipping to like characters of the same gender. There's just a shipping episode now. Yeah, sorry. It's fine. It's just I'll see like two people shipping to men or like two women just because they're two men or two women. And then like, and even if it's like it's like age gaps, abusive, no matter what, they're just like if you hate it. It's hot. First off, they're like it's hot and then they're like if you hate this, you're terrible. You're homophobic. You're homophobic. I've been called homophobic so much online and I'm like, what? Online. Online. Because a lot of the time it's like not inherently bad. It's not inherently bad representation until people obviously take it and turn it a little bit weird, but like it's just like not, it's you're close, especially with showrunners, it's like you're close. You're just not there yet. Especially like it's like if you're gonna put like a gay person in your show for the second then being gay, but person like go through the effort of giving them like a story art. Instead of just like being there and just like make the queers happy. Or like get a gay writer or someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Honestly, not even. Like it's not that like it doesn't just make a story that I mean apparently it is hard. Apparently it's hard. I would just love to see a story about a gay person that doesn't revolve around them being gay. It's just a side-back. That's there. They just happen to be queer. That's literally it. They just happen to like dudes or like women like whatever the yeah it depends. I mean in some cases like in Love Simon where it was all about like that's good. Yeah that's really good. We love Love Simon, it's good, but like watch it. Read it too. Do it all. Sorry I'm interrupting you, but like oh my god. So Love Simon was just all about him like coming to terms with his sexuality and then like coming out or like getting out and like all that stuff. Getting out. Getting out it. Yeah. I said just getting out and I was like we're going to change that. Instead of coming out you just get out. He needed to leave the house, um no, but like that was good representation and it was all about the fact that he was gay, but I mean I don't think that's necessarily bad and like showing like what it's like like having representation that shows like what it's like to be LGBT. But also like you need like not only like stuff like that but also like just other stuff where they're just people. So you opened Love Simon where I'm whole. Yeah. I'm in a talk. Love Simon. The book and the movie are so good. It's all about him being gay which is perfectly fine. I love those. I'm not saying like don't have those. I'm just saying like maybe just like make it a side fact occasionally. Or like make just more representation. Or like just don't even like a thing out of it. It's just like oh yeah that character's gay. Yeah. Or bi or whatever. Yeah. But Love Simon. They, it's all about him coming into terms with it and the healthy relationship. It's a good, they're the same age. It shows the high, it shows high school really well I think. It also shows the way their parents did it. I love that whole thing with his parents and his family. They handle it so so well. So Becky Albertale who is the writer of the book has done three books. All of them wonderful books. I've read them all. Well I should have seen more but I've only read the gay ones. So there are three gay ones and I've read those. They're all so good. There's the upside of unrequited which is the main character isn't queer but her sister is. She's bi. And those, these two girls are being raised by these two moms. And it's a wonderful story. All so sweet and healthy relationships and it's wonderful. They handle things so well. And then Leia on the off beat or Leia however you want to pronounce it. I know you got, it's Leia. It's literally pronounced Leia. It's Leia. L-E-A-H, Leia. Whatever. Leia on the off beat which is a, it's a sequel to Love Simon. So Love Simon fans you're there. Read the book. It's so under, it's, ooh such a good book. And Leia is shown to, Leia is shown to be bisexual and it's all about her coming to terms with falling in love with her best friend. And her best friend being like I'm straight but I like you so what's going on. And it's, which a mood. And it was just so good. And all of her books that I've read have been absolutely amazing. So check those out if you want good representation. Yeah, honestly like I think Love Simon was the first representation of a gay male relationship at least that I saw that was healthy. Did you come to our, our QSA brought a bunch of people over to see it. Were you with us? Yeah. Okay. That was, yeah. In the theaters? Yeah, we all, we were all like this is a huge deal. We're gonna go and we're gonna watch it. It was great. It was just sad that like it wasn't the first representation I've seen of a gay couple. Like good one. Yeah. It's the first good one I've seen and like, like anything else I've seen was just like really stereotyped or really fetishized and now it's nasty. Yeah, also I was like semi outed too. So like having Love, like Love Simon talk about it and I think there was line that was like it was supposed to be like my choice and like my thing. Yeah. And it was, they handled that so well too. So they did this whole story, like they did this whole story about him being gay but they did it well which is the most important thing. Like it was a good story just by itself a good story and then but it was also just queer. Yeah. Cause like you either get like one or the other. Like either it's a good story or the bad story but it's gay. Yeah, I know. And it's like I end up like sacrificing good writing for a gay cause I'm like I need something please. Yeah, honestly I'd rather just have it all be straight characters than badly written LGBT characters. Yeah. It's just sad. Well just like don't even say. Like just let it be like ambiguous in your story and just like let everyone just be like figure it out. You can put whatever label you want on these characters. I know but another problem with it being ambiguous is there's just gonna be assholes who are like, like mild swearing. Okay. It's too late anyways but there's just gonna be these jerks. Oh you mean asshole. That's fine. Yeah. So there's gonna be these jerks who are just like um who are like you can't label that character that because like the writers didn't say it. Yeah they didn't say it and like they're just gonna like take these like very obviously queer coded characters and say no because they're gonna say like they're not actually queer because the writers didn't say that. And the queer coding also which you mentioned just like a really interesting history. Yeah. Where it's like there was this band essentially on in um Holly Woodward like you can't have queer characters for a very long time and writers were like well we want them so they gave them certain traits just kind of where stereotypes come from is they gave them certain traits I think fact check me on this I think to like so that queer audiences could see it and be like we understand but straight people wouldn't get like up in arms about it and they'd be like they never said they were queer so it's fine like the queer ones know. They're like that was not a friendship kiss I see that so much. People going it's a friendship kiss. I'm like what the hell is a friendship kiss? Especially with lesbians. Especially with lesbians. I'm sorry I was thinking of all the like posts where it's like oh she's just being nice to me like when it's like lesbians. It's like no honey she's learning like she's a lesbian. Yeah. But I didn't really saw them when there's like a picture of two gay like two gay guys kissing a historical picture at the bank won a war and the caption was like two soldiers shoulders share a friendship kiss in like celebration and I was like honey they gay. You know I've seen that picture. Pinterest. Is it on Pinterest? It's actually on Instagram. Oh dang. Yeah. Social media diversity. I don't know what that means. I don't think that exists. Queer coding but also there's the opposite of like where people are like leaving it ambiguous to where people are like oh yeah that person's LGBT when they're like not at JK Rowling. Yeah exactly. Should we go into that next? Sure. Harry Potter. Major franchise. Loves it with all my heart. JK Rowling please delete your Twitter. So you can have Twitter. I don't care if anyone's speech but length of stop. So for anyone watching who doesn't know I don't know how you don't know but JK Rowling came out after the books were published if they were all published and she decided that she was going to say Dumbledore who is like Harry's father figure that he was gay and her reasoning for not she defended it by saying that I didn't put it in the books because it was from the perspective of Harry and he wouldn't have seen that. That's her defense that was like her defense about it which fair isn't the perspective of an 11 year old in the beginning like he's not going to be like you're gay Dumbledore I can tell you. I mean I was but like I do that with my teachers I'm like are you sure you're straight? What? You just hear them talk about their personal life and I'm like okay anyways moving on but that was her reasoning that's why she didn't put it in the books. Moving on my weird comment why she didn't put it in the books and then that kind of became she didn't get a lot of backlash from that she's getting beginning more recently because she's been doing that a lot now where she's like oh there's one Jewish guy in all of Hogwarts she did that she was like his name was like Anthony Goldstein and he's the one Jewish guy in all of Hogwarts and also just her book in general like they don't have any diversity all the characters are white and except for Dumbledore straight and then to the whole anything too which I don't know if I'm going to. Go for it. So Curse Child is the sequel to Harry Potter it's marketed as like the ninth book I think or the eighth book however many there are I'm a fake fan it'd be the eighth I'm a fake fan I'm sorry but it wasn't actually a book it was a play that wasn't written by JK Rowling and the actress who played Hermione the older Hermione in this play was black but instead of just like leaving it as that just saying like the actress was black because she was the best person for the role which I'm assuming she was. Instead of leaving it at that JK Rowling went on record to say that Hermione was black the whole time when in the book it says Hermione's white face on multiple occasions so now she's just lying and like honestly like if she wanted to make these characters like gay or people of color in the beginning hell yeah but she's doing it after the fact when there's now proof that they're not so it's like I mean with Dumbledore it's like kind of Grindelwald. It's just kind of lazy but didn't you like tweet that like Dumbledore and Grindelwald had like an intense sexual relationship? That was the exact wording intense sexual relationship. That's like kind of fetish I think it's like you can't like say it's fetish but you can't say it's from a percentage of an 11 year old and then go intense sexual relationship and it's like pick a side and then all kinds of Grindelwald which are the new movies that he don't know that are coming out now in this universe featuring Dumbledore and there have been two and none of them have shown him as gay and the reasoning behind that is that it was like while go I don't know the exact setting but the olden days the olden days it's like the 20s and the reasoning is like Dumbledore is not going to walk up to someone and like his 20s and be like hello I'm gay which is true but you can still show it if he's like with his person in secret person I don't like the word lover it makes his secret person his secret person secret tunnel secret tunnel so there was that whole thing where it's like but it's also like queer coding well first off it's queer baiting but I'm saying you could have queer coded Dumbledore yeah so the gays would know so yeah do we we could queer baiting it's literally just a list of titles like you guys can see this we can go into queer baiting if you want cartoons these two love cartoons I don't understand it but I know you have cartoons cartoons are fantastic do you want to talk about those like you gave me a like a there's on the list you can read some because I forget it's She-Ra, Dragon Prince and Bull-Tongue okay yeah we can talk about that it's a bad show you guys okay we'll go into that later no queer baiting queer baiting I'm not going to talk about it because I don't feel educated on the topic but if you want to go ahead I mean queer baiting is anyone educated that's deep man panic rubbing room sorry I keep cutting you off it's okay so queer baiting is basically just when writers will just say oh yeah we have this character who's LGBT in some way and then they don't really like go through the effort to show the character being LGBT and that's kind of what's happening with Dumbledore honestly queer baiting also isn't just like outright saying it's also kind of like alluding to the fact to attract that audience like in promos they allude to the fact that there's going to be a queer relationship here to attract that audience because mine and they don't show it which is a practice that's used quite a bit and I think a lot of shows especially now people are becoming more aware of what queer baiting is a lot of shows I think have been unrightfully labeled as queer baiting and it becomes this huge thing where it's just like it people are talking about it but they don't really totally understand it it's just like this whole thing that's very messy and convoluted so like some of the big shows that I've been called queer baiting are like show lock supernatural and you could make an argument for those shows I only watch show lock but they have been labeled as queer baiting and some unrightfully show some unrightfully show bad pun but it happened so it's just this whole messy convoluted thing I don't know it's just kind of messed up because you're playing to a minority and being like hey we're going to show you representation that you've literally never gotten and then still not delivering especially with like I think it's different because you can't really do that with a other minority it's like when it's people of color you would see it in the promo whereas here it's like friendship kiss I don't know I just let it sound so funny how many friendship kisses have you ever had let's not talk about that anyways so that's what queer baiting is and a lot of shows have been labeled it and it's just kind of depending on the law and J.K. Rowling and all of that it's like you say he's gay here's an opportunity to show it you're not taking it to be fair there are three more movies to be fair the two movies aren't that good so we don't really know she's again on twitter she's coming after me for this script that I wrote and I know how it's going to play out but I still have three more movies to do this so like calm down and wait there we could totally be all up and on without nothing it's happened before so it's all just kind of like whew queer representation is such like a hard topic to talk about it's like we need it and we want it people are kind of doing it kind of not it's all messy because you don't really know I've seen shows like active shows probably not the right word but like shows that are like on the air on the air thank you like it's kind of hard to like label a show that's on the air as queer baiting because you don't know yeah because you don't know because it's still going but I don't know I've seen shows that like have a gay couple that's like healthy relationship this is an umbrella academy but it's like a healthy gay relationship nothing about an umbrella academy is healthy he's part gorilla and there's incest it's also like unstable it's not healthy job there's a healthy gay relationship in there as far as we can tell and I'm saying that because it was shown very briefly we know they had a relationship it is very sweet I love it but also like it's not exactly queer baiting not I think it is I mean sort of but it's also there's more seasons to come yeah so we could get more of that but it's like so we get like the small snippet of the gay relationship so cute it's very cute and then we also get like a three minute dance scene that's basically like incest I'm sorry it's incest they're adopted siblings yeah that's nothing much about yeah but it was like a straight relationship it was the main straight relationship in a show yeah it's like the main relationship so umbrella academy is an interesting case because it is like a flashback as it's shown but also there are a lot of seasons to come and did they use it in the promos a lot I don't think it could be qualified queer baiting if they didn't really use it in the promos and it's kind of this thing that's like here now if they're using it to lure the audience then I think it's like gray territory about like what you're doing here but like but also like if you're doing a specifically queer thing you're gonna show that in the promos so it's all very convoluted yeah so we were just talk very that was very vague it was very vague but yeah because it's so hard to explain I don't even know what happened in the show I recommend it but like yeah it's so I brought it up and we didn't deliver let's deliver it now so the list that I do remember was we have a list we're prepared she wrote I haven't seen it I heard there are lesbians are there lesbians there are lesbians so okay season 2 is like about to come out and like in season 1 it wasn't like there wasn't anything like super big like as far as I noticed I didn't finish season 1 oh okay no I got like halfway through okay so there are there are lesbians but they're kind of like at the end there are lesbians like we knew that they were two like queens or something which we need to also talk about later with yeah dragon pants on but she wrote these two princesses like they were introduced like in the beginning but they weren't like really introduced they were just kind of there but like me and my friend group just kind of there and like I don't know a lot of the fandoms kind of like also like yeah this is like a lot of like gay like it's like it's hard for me to explain but if you like watched it like you might kind of get it but I'm also kind of like it's like just a wholesome but also interesting kind of show in a way but are they out like out really shown as gay the two queens they're like yeah we're in a relationship and they both sorry kick ass like together I also found a swear word you guys are fine I don't think well it's too late now but like they kick ass together at the end and they're both like really happy and it's like cute and it's like oh yeah I love that cause I'm like a kid show too where it's like finally show the baby let them know and so I'm like not a baby but a cover so Beau Beau is like against toxic masculinity and it's like so great and he's like wholesome and he's just wonderful there are some like things about how he has like two fathers which Jesus had two dads wasn't shown in the Beau is Jesus I love you Jesus but the fathers weren't shown in the first season so I'm like hoping this Friday tune in not on this Fira tune in to Netflix on the 26th of April tune in to Netflix but that's amazing too cause in a kid show and it's like a cartoon market it's kind of gathered like a teen audience a little bit more your teen it's also a kid show which is super good and I love wholesome kid shows if I had had that stuff my short life would have been a lot easier and like this period of time where it was like struggling like what is gay I don't know what is the homosexual I do not understand it would have been a lot easier cause it's like oh that character is queer come on my cool I can be that character there you go and it's like role models they're important give them them and they don't make a big deal out of it they're just gay that's it maybe we'll get more gay or maybe you'll crash and burn we'll see maybe I mean and then you would I was going to talk about dragon prints watch the first episode it's a good show I like the show you both only watch cartoons it's literally just the two of you that just watch cartoons and chat about it what's the heck is going on so in dragon prints in the second season there are two queens you're a queen so the queens of durran and it's shown in a flashback it's shown in a flashback it's like kingdom so it's shown in a flashback kind of like a bra on the cat but it's shown in a flashback even though they have a child and that child is the ruler of that kingdom kingdom of korean kingdom of korean is that what you said yes they also kick ass together and they do have an on screen kiss the fact that queens isn't a big deal and they're very respected because they're queens and it was unexpected oh oh oh oh oh oh oh but the advert hasn't think about the two queens they had two people kiss it was a friendship kiss and they made a whole problem a huge problem about it and they used it for advertising everywhere we have lesbians it was a weird thing where they kissed in front of the popular girl that seemed like for shock value and the popular girl went out, lesbians aren't shocking anymore they just used it for this whole thing it got me and then that was the whole thing and they used it and Riverdale sucks that reminded me of that literally friends that literally boast straight have love interests another show is adventure time there's like a little box man that has the high voice with the boys I was also thinking bimo I haven't seen it yes because of the two lesbians I think one of them is bi the goth and the bubble gum I know things some of it up until season 5 and I had watched the show when I was a kid I knew they were going to get together I had heard it I knew it was going to happen I remember being like did they even build up to that they actually did which really surprised me it's like a 10 season show all the way back in season but all the way back in season 3 they were really developing that way it's another cartoon in this show it's a sequel to afterloss airbender this fantasy world we're finally giving a plot summary it's a good bit after the last airbender I'm sorry sorry you are giving one basically in the last airbender there wasn't all this technology it's kind of like in the industrial revolution time and it's kind of like that it's very interesting it's a fantasy world this is on a new avatar an exciting time I can recite the intro you're not special for first 3 seasons I think there are these 2 characters the main character I saw me sorry I was thinking Hygienic's Pursue I'm sorry Korra we need like a flow chart 4 main characters basically Korra is like Mako and that's her first love interest and Mako is like a saw me Mako's into a saw me basically at the end of that Korra is recovering all her friends are writing her a saw me I'm getting that right 4 wasn't free so I didn't watch it but a saw me for a while they only talk via letter back and forth letters that's very nice they're both by they're writing the letters they hold hands they go on to a vacation there's actually comics but no one read those but in the show the biggest thing about it is the characters I watched all the way because season 4 was not free there's not a lot of they kiss on the comics they're married in the comics they're fighting for rights that's what happens but in the show a saw me is like friendship it's a friendship marriage it's for tax benefits why else would you get married that was not a great summary there's not a ton of build up but when did the show come out it's been a kid show in the comics it's good representation in the show I have biased opinions I don't like the show regardless of that I don't have one show for a long time each season has a different plot they don't overact I'm like what the hell is wrong I'm like okay it's a lot more in the comics with earlier shows it wasn't as easy to put out representation people didn't want it in kids shows people would still be up in arms about it maybe they just shoved it in maybe they just tried to slide it into that last season it's over and no one can bitch at them about it we established ass we're not one past ass we are far past ass what was I going to say I'm gone it's gone I was too late but in the kids shows more recent kids I think they shoved it in at the end they were watching their show it will appease the gays but straights won't stop watching at the end we get our woke points that's true but also the comics but no one's going to read the comics the comics are a big part of the avatar universe people love those they had really important plot things in there too support it with the show they couldn't have always done that Nickelodeon was probably like okay you're done why did Nickelodeon publish the comics airtime first of all there's only so many things you can cram into whatever you could easily have made them you're right but you don't have to take up airtime what if they had other projects I'm spitballing here I could be completely wrong and I also agree with you like I said it's before with the kind of fight or convoluted none of us are educated it also wasn't really queerbait I know you two weren't like in-depth but it's also like this with other shows too or they might not have been able to put that representation in or they would have been cancelled that's kind of a big can of worms Voltron is a more recent cartoon show meaning the argument of that they couldn't have really put it in because they would lose you it's still valid but not as valid when was the first season I'm professional correct me if I'm wrong but the main issue was they were a couple seasons in and then they just said Shiro was gay and then there was nothing for another few seasons suddenly he had a boyfriend and he was married the last season he gets married but his first although war time but also Voltron again cartoon show fantasy universe it was an old 80s show it's better than that so with this whole show it cultivated this huge online following this huge fandom it was beautiful in the beginning it was a wonderful fandom and then it all went to hell the show and the fandom the show itself I enjoyed the first season and then the later seasons as a show itself I think it does fairly good with other forms of representation there are people of color there are people of different backgrounds different ethnicities and it's a really good show in that aspect they did better than the 80s cartoon because they had more women representation different people of color it was beautiful in the beginning and then people started wondering like oh they're good at this maybe they're going to be queer representation they kind of put it out they're like oh there's going to be this the actors are kind of hinting at it everyone started getting really excited because there's just one huge ship that was in the fandom and people were like it's going to be canon it's going to be great it's going to be these two main characters together and it's going to be canon it's going to be great I'm trying to think of which one I'm very excited and I was very excited because I followed the show from the beginning and I was like heck yes let's go bring on the gays hit me with that gay shit no anyways so it was very simple we're very happy and then as the seasons progressed nothing really happened and then finally we kind of got towards the tail end of it and this one character his name is Shiro he was shown to be a gay man a gay man didn't they hint at him being gay or not hint but then they would just say Shiro was gay in an earlier season no they literally did nothing and he was out of the blue he had a dead boyfriend I watched all eight seasons knowing he was going to be gay I watched it from the beginning knowing he was going to be gay I saw nothing they put it in there because one fans wanted it and it wasn't bad by itself this character Shiro and his boyfriend is good but they just like as a story very good but with all the background of the show runners worked on Legend of Korra so people were very excited because they were like Legend of Korra is gay and they did the exact same thing they did Legend of Korra putting it in at the end no build up gosh that makes sense they did the same thing season 8 oh yeah they kissed that's it but in Korra they didn't kiss so in season 7 Shiro was shown as a gay man he has a boyfriend who passes in season 7 spoilers he dies and then in season 8 it's like the end screen they're going through what happened to all these characters after the show and suddenly Shiro got married we didn't know the character that Shiro got married to I had to google his name nobody knows it just suddenly yeah everyone was like in the control room and then they were just like there and like here's a guy no one cares about marry him he's a male your male go for it I mean it was weird also like there's one thing that bothered me and might just because of the fandom but like Shiro was like the captain of that ship and the Curtis was the Curtis his name something like and just he's like part of the crew and people sorry anyway yeah I know that uncomfortable power dynamic uncomfortable power dynamic and I didn't see a lot of that thankfully it was just like a weird thing that happened and it's like they could have also put rep in or like they could have shown that Shiro was gay because like throughout the show the other characters are like talking about their family and like people from home and they could have it's nothing we don't know anybody's home life somebody's a dead boyfriend yeah that's like all we know but like we didn't even know that until like yeah they honestly it could have like I still love the show I still you guys probably have it I love the show I love the show I think it's a very good show I love the stories by itself I think that it could have been done much much better we're running out of time and this whole show has been kind of negative so I think I'm gonna just list off a few good representation one day at a time the show on that because that was sadly canceled because crew Netflix it was so it was next one love you Netflix don't get mad at me they're gonna see this show and they're gonna get so mad but it's a wonderful show it's about a single Cuban mother who was a war veteran has PTSD raising these two kids one most obviously Cuban and they are raising these two kids one of whom is shown realizes and sexuality at the course of the show it handles mental health it handles racism it handles sexism it handles homophobia it handles so many of these things wonderfully again sadly canceled after pre-seasons but beautiful watch it amazing didn't another network pick it up or am I wrong I don't think so I haven't heard since 8 is another Netflix show I saw a little bit of it but it has a transgender character and I think all the main characters are confirmed pansexual literally this kind of blanket they all gay and it was like hell yeah so that's exciting and the transgender woman married her partner on the show beautiful loved it so good we talked about love simon we talked about umbrella academy Magnus Chase and the book series ran by Rick Rarden and it's the it's about this homeless guy who is part god fun fact and it's a wonderful it's a wonderful book series and there's a main Muslim character there's a gender fluid character the main character pansexual there's a deaf character all these are main characters too and it's beautiful and Rick Rarden this really good job at representation his first book you like he kind of tricked Disney which is really funny his first book is like about these inherently like normal kids all white all like straight and it's he like and then like it grew popularity and people started like wanting other books and he kept writing them and he kept writing them they got more and more diverse and even the beginning all the three main characters have learning abilities so super good all of his books so good so wholesome they were the books that got me into reading and honestly as they age with the queerness so did I and I followed them and it was so helpful so that's good well I got on this list you guys talked about all the cartoons that you liked so that's exciting and then symptoms of being human is also a really good book it's about a gender fluid character who runs a blog and it's in like an anonymous blog and then outed and it's super good love it and I also love that they in that symptoms of being human they never specifically say the birth sex to the whole time or it's like they're just gender fluid it's like you don't know anything else it just figures in the fluid and it's really wonderful super good books what else do I have I'm trying to think in my head now because I'm out of the list is gone I have honestly read so many and we get an episode similar to this too where if you want to hear me about other ones go there and then I think we're going to end this so everyone we're going to go down and we're going to say our final last words or take away whatever the sentence we want to stick in their brains after they end the show so we're going to start with pepper why me because I'm not ready and I control this so go I don't know what to say here I don't know I'm just like trying to process everything already so back to the dragon friends last sentence they have a lot of other diverse characters it's not just the queens of dirt they have like a mute character is she I think no she's not deaf no she's mute they have people of color there's a third season coming out it's a very good show a lot of diversity also read the comics from the Legend of Korra because yes it's gay representation is important and it's like a double edge story really because you can do it wonderfully you can do it horribly just try your best to do it horribly and also it's really difficult trying to seek out books that you see represented but they are out there they're hard to find but they are out there and don't be an ass is that the take away just don't be an ass all of this youth edition and just like don't be an ass is that it? this has been all things LGBTQ plus youth edition thank you for watching we'll see you next month