 here at Oldsea and I'm really really really very excited to welcome someone who is very special for chairing this particular session whom many of my colleagues from ALT and also some of our members I know have met at the wonderful at tech conference that our colleagues in Ireland from the Irish Learning Technology Association organize each year. Now when we took our President Martin Weller there this year we all came back with the clear mission to steal the very best bit of the at tech conference and we asked permission and they kindly let us borrow a very special Tom Farley for chairing the session. I'm not gonna have to do any comparing for the next half an hour but give it up for Tom who's gonna come on stage now and show you how to Gosta. If this bombs it's Martin Weller's poor lack of judgment. Martin Weller I mean I was like all sort of fanboy you know and been in ed tech and you're living in Ireland and you quote this man and finally we're sitting down at the dinner there and a friend of mine says what did you talk about that analytics is the VLA dead no air-blind dogs. It would be funny if it's not what it is actually true that's exactly what we talked about so yes so Gosta. So I suppose the Japanese have Pachachka or Pachachka which is obviously very organized. This being Irish, this is Islamic. I mean talk of conferences, this is an international linguistic conference and a Spanish-speaking linguist who says to the Irish professor I just tell me do you have an Irish award like many others. The Irish ones after amongst us. I don't even have a award which indicates such a degree of origins. So an Irish I can tell, this only works and I'll have to be honest, I'm very, very embarrassed because there are well-english people get the honours. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Well, I guess it's there with my cat that comes in the corner of my house and he would get the honours. So Gosta needs a quick chit chat. So it's sort of five minutes of frenetic. We'll do a countdown to start and then we'll come to an initial round. I won't stop, you won't stop. Now you walk away from a conference and you say what do I take away? That I learn about the latest technology. I mean do we think about how we actually do, I walk and learn technology. Do we think about power relationships? Do we think about data analytics? No. What I want you to take away from this is how to count an Irish. I used to do data planning and technology in a lot of YouTube videos. I just took a couple of stares. So we count down each, each Gosta will be counted down one, two, three, four, five. So it's important that each and every one of you knows how to count. So I just said there'll be people here who've done doctorates and they will have found them easier than the next two minutes. I want everybody to join in. Ahayn, the pronunciation. Ahayn. Once again, ahayn. I feel a bit like sort of Doher Deere. This is actually just Doher. It's very forward. If you've seen the sound of music, you will know exactly what I'm talking about. That's very easy. Now tree. There's almost invention there. Ahayn, a doe, a tree. Now you think, oh, so this Irish language is easy. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Well, there's anybody who's ever watched Father Chad will know it's not that easy. I was just telling Laurie Fitzgerald, my son there, my jetty's our son, my wife's here. Here, my first half dressed up. And these two can aid into a frame of getting insult as we all are. I don't need to be rude. They had a my lovely horse competition. Now, now, fall. Give that one a go. So we're just for the boys where we are. Ahayn, a doe, a tree, a camera. And again, ahayn, a doe, a tree, a camera. That's, I have to go. I'll go, Max, end our billions over there. Kuik. Here, a Kuik. Will you show you? Ahayn, a doe, a tree, a camera, a Kuik. I'm on your roll now. We are big enough now. I'm going to get the sleeves off now. Ready? A tree. I think I'm going to go see Dosa. I don't want to go to jail this year. Now, you have Marty Fitzgerald, a man we all know a lot about, but today is actually literally the fulcrum of Dosa. Now, Laurie, please stand over there and let me introduce you to this man over here. Right here. So, Laurie, you are going to start here. Why that? Okay. And the right? Jazz. Okay. So what we're doing now is we're going to set off, set off between one side and the other. Yeah. Just to get us all going. It's late in the day, isn't it? So, I'm going to say being. Now, obviously, they won't do it, but they have done it. Now, if you want to talk about what I'm going to do, I kind of want to talk about this out of the call of each person here. There, we want to just go over and collect yourself and gather yourself here. Now, you're all right. Don't give her a round of applause. She hasn't lived there. No, no. You know, there's very going, kindly going to give you a three minute warning and a one minute warning. You want to learn another Irish word? Oh, online. Okay. Now, the Irish word for stop is stod. Stod. And we start. I know you mean stop. Are we okay? Yeah. Don't be looking at me like that. Oh, it'd be easy on me. No. In fact, if anything, I've come here, I have to go down America. Now, we won't, we won't avoid up the room left and right. We'll just do the whole, the whole. If you're ready to go, and the clock will start when we shout out, at the last pound of Boston phase out, the clock will start. Are we ready? Hey. It's like father's home here now. God love me. It's how we create the night. Now, the whole idea, as I said, is participation. And when we start that one again, when I raise the flag, we start. We ready? Hey, that's really unfair. I've got to follow that. And then I've got to go before these lovely people. So I think I'm kind of the warmer back, but I'll give it a go. Okay. So I'm Debbie Bath, and I kind of mad on pink as you might have gathered. And I'm a senior academic developer here in Swansea. And now when Marin, lovely Marin asked me to do a gastric, I went, yeah, that would be great. Because I thought it had something to do with cakes. I don't know why. He just kind of conjured up that image. I now know it's nothing whatsoever to do with cakes. So Marin said, all I've got to do, which is great, is just talk a bit about my involvement with alt really, and what my favorite alt 18, alt C 18 moments have been so far, bearing in mind, we're only in day two. So I'm sure there'd be wonderful stuff tomorrow, but this is all I've got so far. So here we go. And why I love alt. Okay. And that's some options, really, of my summary of my involvement with alt. I first started to get to know the lovely people in alt in 2014. And then I did the octel course, anybody do the octel course? Yeah, pay me later, Marin. And I had a role working in Wales at that time, where I was involved in the OER conferences. So talking about the OER 15 conference, where I persuaded a certain somebody sitting in the front and a couple of other somebodies to come and do the chairing for me. And ever since then, I've kind of haven't left really. So that's kind of all the sorts of things that I've been involved in. The Open Education Special Interest Group, I lost to give a quick plug to, because I know Catherine Cronin is quite keen on mentioning that for this year. So if anybody wants to know anything about the OER SIG, then let me or Catherine know. I've also put down there that I'm a C-Mult helpful. I don't know if you remember last year, but we had to do a little I Will Promise. And last year, I will promise to do my C-Mult, but I didn't actually do it. So there you go. Hey, right, I'm going to run now. Okay, five moments, collaborative learning, Snapchat on the go. Anybody use Snapchat? Two, three, four. Right, we had a bit of an on-the-go session on the train before we even got here, which was quite good. So I've never used Snapchat before, so the learning started already. Some more fab moments that we've done, virtually connecting. I took part in that. That was really cool. Really enjoyed that. First time I've been a guest on virtually connecting. Two minutes, okay. Some more fab moments. This is the lovely Suzanne. Juggling. You get juggling at all. Who'd have thought? I can't juggle, by the way. If she was here, she would be juggling, but I can't do that. So you don't get that. But that's also on YouTube. So if anybody missed that, that's all about our bring-your-own-device-for-learning course that we did. There we go. We're on to the why I love alt now community. You guys, you make it what it is, really. I get such a sense of warmth and energy. So many opportunities to learn. You're always learning something new. And I've just got such a buzzer to come into this conference. It's the highlight of my year, really. You get to feel part of something. I think my professional values, I like to think I'm an open practitioner. I like to share as much as I can. And above all, we have loads of fun, don't we? And we have some really nice cakes. Didn't everybody have the cakes just now? I hope there's going more cakes tomorrow, Marin. Can you promise more cakes, possibly? Yeah. One minute left. There we go. I did a little scribble. I didn't have time to finish it. So there's some bits and pieces that I haven't got on there. But I hope that gives you a bit of a flavor. A flavor, see what I did there? Gaster flavor. Okay. There you go. But yeah, I think it's great. And I'll be back next year. I'm under time. You're rude, my mum. I think we should get this started. My number two, my number two list here. This man I, we age and to come over, my colleagues from our Australian Technology Association, and if you come over to us as tech next year, you can experience more. That is the madness I built it. So, coming over for it, we have Laura Widger and Paul Dohm. Come on. I'll be nice to Laura, but Paul is a fair game for anything. I'm so close to holding it up here. Are you ready to go? Yeah. Yep. Will you be on time? No. Good. Now, we started off, I've made the lights in the easy. We're going to start off here with the hand, the dough, three, and then we all show the cooling and then we got to it. We'll just do a draw your one. Are we ready? Starting with the left. Don't you give us a gutty idea here. Gusto, not Gaster, a bit of Gusto. Will you try again? Okay, Tom, thanks for that very warm introduction. Delighted to be here on behalf of my colleagues, Catherine Brune and Alison Egan, who fortunately couldn't make it, to talk about, okay, the title comes from Paul. It's really difficult. Little art acorns, how they grow, looking at fruitful collaborations among professional bodies that hopefully are yielding bountiful engagements. So, who are we with the Irish Learning Technology Association? In essence, an independent voluntary community of professionals committed to the development and exchange of knowledge Intel in education. We run a number of initiatives in terms of our annual conference, generally about 300 people is on every year in May. Hopefully you can make it. Jen Burke Award. A couple of years ago, we were delighted to collaborate with some colleagues nationally in producing the first NMC technology outlook for higher education in Ireland. We have an open access journal in Technology Enhanced Learning, which Tom is one of the main leaders on and we'll be talking about tomorrow. And we're also delighted that we're a couple of our Irish colleagues, in particular, one project, which is a special edition of the Tel Journal, which was focused on VLEs. That's up for awards tonight, along with another DCU project. If you want to find out anything more about ILTA, have a look at our website and follow us on Twitter. So, why are we here today? As professional bodies that outside in perspective is sometimes quite hard to get. And one of the ways we've always been thinking about what are we doing? Are we doing all right? Are we going in the right direction? And collaborating with other professional bodies, looking at what our colleagues are doing nationally and internationally, is always a good way of achieving that. With this in mind, we've been developing our collaborative networks with our colleagues internationally over the last few years. We signed an MOU with a couple of years ago. We've escalated with our colleagues across the water in the U.S. in terms of the OLC. And we've been looking at how we're developing these networks. And I'm going to hand it over to my colleague, Paul, who's going to talk about some of the common issues and how we've been addressing them. Thanks, Laura. So, when we looked over the global guard and fence, we identified the following four, I suppose, issues or commonalities, I suppose, at a higher level for professional bodies. So, around collaboration, dissemination, governance, and leadership. So, we've all kind of interacted around these issues. And I suppose identifying the issues is good, but I suppose operationalizing or sort of addressing them in a collaborative fashion is another day's work. So, the ways that we've done things recently. So, for example, we've worked on, well, how do we do it? We got involved, essentially. And so, we got involved with projects like the blended learning essentials, recruitment of tutors, for example, in terms of continuing professional development. We've got a partnership with Altaround Seamalt. We've engaged with the IELOL professional development strategy from the OLC. And there's an EU equivalent called Empower. We're always mindful of promoting each other's activities. So, we do a lot of crowdsourcing for projects. Obviously, we do a lot of conference participation. So, we have under the MOU that Alt comes to us. And we go to their conferences as well. And we'd love to see some of you over. Well, increasingly, there are a lot of Alt members who are coming over to us for a conference. And importantly, around consultancy, around governance, for example, around steering groups that we might have in our respective organizations. So, for example, we've got a rep, we've got representative on the strategic plan or the strategic group for research and learning technologies. So, a lot of this stuff is very reciprocal and very useful for all of us. Okay. So, where are we now then? Obviously, all of the professional bodies are geographically dispersed. But we were lucky last year for last year's EdTech conference, where we managed to get most of the heads of the bodies together, which was absolutely fantastic at the EdTech conference in Ireland. So, from left to right, we've got Don Parrish on the left, from Askelight, Martin Weller down here, who is ubiquitous anyway. We've got Meg Benke, who was talking about the old C, myself, and then Marin. What are we doing next? We're looking at, we're looking around leadership program webinar series to put together so that we can kind of do some comparative analysis globally in terms of how people are addressing the leadership, I suppose, narrative. Looking at quality assurance standards for blended learning through the, looking at, I suppose, we're finding it difficult, certainly, in Ireland to get those standards through. So, we're looking forward to collaborating with others. And for us, oppressing Lee, we're going through a change in ill to governance. Five, four, three. And it's been great to see you all. And come to EdTech next year. This is a savage, savage. Sorry, I have to leave you on my closing line. So, it's in EdTech next year. We're not sure we'll have lifesavers, but we'll definitely have Tom. That's it. Thank you very much. I'll tell you just watching in, I'm not absolutely available to go wherever it is there. Anyway, the talking is, the timing is a bit first. And I've just contacted a colleague, friend there, just asked her, it's okay to her. She, the therapy had worked. But on her brain force, Gusta, she just talked, she was told, she was told in seven minutes and found out it was five minutes on the day. So, that wasn't the only thing to do. Well, harsh, but fair. Now, Clint, the lab guys now join us up here now. So, just let them get themselves ready. Now, this time, I think we won't be on left and right, but we will be on left and right. But it's a bit of sort of difficult. So, as we count, we'll all stand up to the left, to the right. Because it's sort of the whole mass of boy graves. You know, there's a bit of hands. That's your arm, right? So, as soon as we're warm, we're going to get started. You have to show everything to the hands. I'm watching here and we're not getting the balls. Don't let them hang. Okay, that's enough. We just hope to wear you out. We're ready for this. See, we're ready. Because the toys are ready. Oh, yeah. We're ready. So, we'll all start off, you'll all start off to your left. Okay, we're ready. Hey. I've titled my guest, when I grew up, I wanted to be a learning technologist. Said no child ever. Five minutes is too short for a long intro on who I am, but suffice to say, I wear a whole bunch of different hats back in British Columbia where I work. I'm the manager of EdTech for regional consortium called BC Campus. I'm also associate faculty at Royal Roads University in the School of Education and Technology. And I'm a community steward for an organization of BC similar to ALT called E-Tug, the Educational Technology User Group. In addition to this being the 25th anniversary of ALT, it is also next year the 25th anniversary of E-Tug. And next year is also my personal 25th anniversary as an educational technologist, learning technologist. Although to be honest, for the first 10 years of my career, I didn't actually know that I was an educational technologist. It's a career that I fell into and I suspect I'm not the only one in the room that fell into it. At any rate, when I was a kid growing up in northern Canada, like most kids, my childhood dreams, this is from Martin, were to become a professional ice hockey player. But once I realized that you actually have to have some skills to become a professional hockey player, I altered my dream to something that I thought was a little bit more achievable. I wanted to be a professional messy hunter. I even had a backup plan and should messy hunting fall through, see in Canada we have this similar mythical creature called the Ogopogo in Lake Okanagan. So I thought well if I couldn't make the big show in Scotland hunting messy, I could try my luck in the local leagues at Lake Okanagan. But at no time did I dream of becoming a learning technologist. But 25 years later, here I am and here's a few things I've noticed in our field. So here's three things. First off, education technology has become simpler, then more complex. Sorry for any mathematicians who have actually modeled a mathematical word there in simplex, but let me explain. On the simple side in 2007, when I used Skype for the first time to bring a guest speaker into a class for an instructor, it took me six weeks to coordinate this. And the biggest hurdle I had was convincing our IT department that this new thing called Skype wasn't some kind of secret back door into our network for Eastern European borders. You know, Skype traffic in and out of our network, I don't know about that. Today a digitally literate instructor can bring a guest into their classroom in about five minutes. On the more complex side, I built a learning technologist of 1994 had to worry about things like the student data retention policy of the overhead projector sitting in the corner of the room. Which brings me to observation number two. Learning technology has become more critical. I think this is an area that we can continue to grow in, but we've made some great strides in, especially in the past five to ten years, thanks in no small part to a lot of people who are at this conference who I really admire, the critical work that they're doing. Early in my career, I was often cast in the role of being evangelist. And some of you may have had that in your title of time, it was quite vogue to be an evangelist. Today we're much less evangelists and much more critical of not only technology, but often the unseen processes and unspoken processes that drive technology adoption and education. And I'm happy to be at a conference, actually, that has an entire stream dedicated to critical perspectives in learning technology. Finally, observation number three. A learning technologist is not an instructional designer. Perhaps it's the Canadian one that raises this as a not because sometimes when you ask a Canadian who they are, the answer you get is not American. But I don't mean this pejoratively, and I don't mean to pit these roles against each other because both are valuable and important roles in maintaining high standards of teaching and learning excellence in our institutions. But I really do think that these are two separate roles that complementary and need to be informed by each other's practice, but distinct fields requiring different skills and attributes. And I often feel that the profession that we call a learning technologist or educational technologist is often undervalued in our institutions. And they tend to get tacked on to an equally important, but really for me a separate role and that is instructional designer. It's this third point that's actually brought me to ALT this year because I think ALT has a really good model in the CMALT program to help raise the profile of learning technologists. And it's something that I'm hoping that I can possibly bring back to Canada and one of the reasons why I'm here is to learn much more about CMALT. Okay, there you go. In the end, not the career I dreamed of as a kid, no professional hockey careers for me, but I can honestly say that now I've arrived, there's not another career that I would rather be doing. Thank you. So, I should sort of say that I've done, I mean, these are sort of very brief, thrown out ideas, so I would encourage people if anybody has read something or have a chat with them afterwards like that. So, I just have to check with Donna, but I just have a beautiful name, it's Donna Lanko. Yeah, that's not bad. That's not bad. No, I was just saying to Paul that we have that tech next year, it's like I've never had these fancy things I've done, so I think that's certainly added to the whole thing. So, I'll just sort of say one way, you've been a great participant. You've just sort of upped the ante now a little bit more. So, what we do now, because I think at this stage you can do a lot of sitting all day, that's good for the old veins. So, we'll start off in the standing position for the wall, then we'll go down to the hay, and then you have to fully sit down, so it's a hay, a dough, a tree, and then your arm's up for the costume. We all stand up, come on. It's late today, this is actually good for your health. And I'm actually going to stop debate on most and all of this. And also, I'm here with Scully, but learning technology, anyone who's watching on the stream, if you want to get one of your friends to photograph you, take part in these sort of warm-up exercises. Are we all ready? A hay, a dough, a tree, a car, a tree! I'm not a learning technologist, I'm an anthropologist. I'm Donna, and I have opinions about things. And I'm not going to apologize for that. So, in the work that I get to do in this sector, which is weird for me, because I am not of the sector, but anthropologists work outside of everywhere they are, so that's fine. I have been tasked occasionally with going in and having people talk about what they do when they go online to do teaching and learning things. And finally on, I was doing this thing that some of you may be familiar with, mapping practice using visitors and residents, and we were arguing against natives and immigrants because we didn't want people to pigeonhole themselves in really, really, really not useful ways. And so what ended up happening, of course, was that people started to pigeonhole themselves in the different way that we had given them, because we were still talking about identity. And what I wanted to do was have them talk about practice. And this triangle represents the opportunity that they have to talk about what they do regardless of who they are. And I think that one of the things that ends up coming up over and over again is when people talk about what they do, they end up talking about the people among whom they do these things. So, we start off with practice, and all of a sudden we're talking about people. We're talking about the places that they go because there are certain people there. They talk about the places that they don't want to go to because there are certain people there. They're talking about networks. They're talking about the networks that they have. They're talking about the networks that they want to have. They're talking about the networks that they avoid because they're toxic and they don't serve them. People don't get enough of an opportunity to talk about these sorts of things. And I think it's wrong. I think that there's too much emphasis on what are you going to do, where are you going to do it, and not enough about with whom are you going to do it, and why are you going to do it. So, the other thing that ends up happening when we have people map their practices is that they talk a lot about visibility. We talk about people who are stars on social media. We talk about the people that we see all the time. They shine so brightly. I see them everywhere. Surely I know who that person is because I can see them all the time. And you might know some things but you don't know everything. You know the things that they show you. That doesn't mean you know them. You can interpret the things that they show you. And they can make deliberate choices about the things that they show you. But that's not the same thing as knowing. So when I think about people and their practices, and I think about the ways that we want to encourage people to do things, I think that too often we get bogged down in, but who can see me? And look at that person over there, and aren't they amazing? I want people to think about the intimacy of their practices. I want people to think with people who care for them. One of the things that my mother and I do together when we have an opportunity to walk is we walk at dusk, and we peer in people's windows because we want to be opinionated about the color that they painted the wall and the sofa that they chose. And you do it at dusk because they haven't gone the blinds down yet, and you can see into. So one of the exercises that I have started doing with my colleague Laurie Phipps is based on the idea of a window, that you open a window into your practice and you invite people to look in the window and talk to you about what they see about your practice. Not just the stuff that's visible, but the stuff they know about because they know you, and because you trust them to tell them things about what it means. I feel like a window is an inadequate metaphor, the sort of thing that I'm trying to encourage people to do here. I'm trying to encourage people to leverage their intimate networks of people who care about them. Not random workshops of people who you just met, who can Google you and think that they know you if you're visible. What I want for people to talk with the people who you want to invite into your home. Who are the people who are already in your network? How can you open a door to the people that you want to hear from about your practice and what it means, what it means to you, and what it means to them? How do we create those moments of intimate reflection, places of care that don't come from some abstracted notion of visibility and importance, but from home? Three, two, one, start! I don't know what it says, but it's very exciting, but the only two people who've gone over time are my fellow compatriots and colleagues. It's like sort of Darrell Ridd and someone says like, all the copies have rules and guidelines and laws. We have Asher, shouldn't we do that? He said we have a finer understanding of the greater condition of the human psyche. So, we have Leo Heberman coming up for last but not least. So, Larry, have you tweeted in showing themselves going up and down? Hey, I'm Castle, Tony Moff, you're watching it. You should be doing this. Now, I've got you to do some physical exercise. You've done a bit of mental exercise. You've been absolutely excellent. But how do you find you doing Kui Kar 3 Doha? Have you ever tried one? This could have badly marked, this could have very badly. But you know what, I have great faith in this group. You've been absolutely excellent. Better than the useless laugh I normally do whenever you may. Now, honestly, you really have to know, I was honestly so nervous that this wouldn't work. You have been absolutely brilliant. So, we'll just do a dry run. But as we go, Moff, put Leo up. So, it'll be Kui Kar 3 Doha. Kui Kar 3 Doha. Well, you don't need to hear it, it's a tie. It's a really good one. Anyway. So, are we ready? At a big, really loud and a huge gust at this time. Are we ready? Kui! Thank you very much. Some of you have no doubt in this room will recognise what this image is of. Slightly blurring, I'm not the best quality, sorry about that. But I will now explain it for those who don't know. In recognition of this auspicious occasion of 25 years of Old Sea I wanted to talk a bit about my personal experience of old and the role that it has played for me. So, I first became involved in old around 10 years ago. In this room I might say only 10 years ago. When I started attending the M25 Learning Technology Group, technically actually at that time the M25 Learning Technology Group was not yet actually an old SIG that was soon to follow. It was on the horizon precisely because the community attending M25 were very much aligned in spirit and overlapping also in practice with the wider old community. And really I have to say that finding that group was a surprisingly transformative experience to have when attending an event named after a motorway. The M25 had the name when it was originally set up in the early 90s to be a group in which learning technologists and their ilk and their variants could meet up and talk about what they've been doing. Because normally in this type of role you're working in smallish teams within institutions. Sometimes you need to learn some new stuff or even just for your own sanity really you need to get out and talk to other people. So the meetings of the M25 are generally a presentation in Q&A format sometimes through other kinds of more experimental formats as well or with special guests. And after attending and participating in this group for a few years I managed to replace someone who stepped down from the organizing group or as old call us the officers. Sometimes we like to call us the admirals. So the M25 group I like to think exemplifies the old spirit. It's an old microcosm by the community for the community or as one could say in the M25 and indeed in old the community is the curriculum. What makes this possible is that our community is blessed by willingness or an openness if you like to discuss our practices and our obstacles and to share our work in progress that sometimes doesn't quite look like a solution just yet. Yes, solutions. Remember solutions. Industry was a wash with them a few years back. IT companies were so advanced then I know I was working in them at the time. They knew your solution already before they even knew what your problem was. I think now the language has somewhat evolved over time but solutionism certainly persists and it still pays to be wary of the kind of solutions that can purchase with a license fee. In fact what I think is great about the old community is that over the years we've got better at talking about problems that we recognize are difficult, wicked and intractable that no solution especially off the shelf is going to provide a quick fix to. So how does the old community do that? I love this old image about being greater than the sum of our parts. The old community through its conferences its special interest groups, its mailing list and really importantly also through its open access journal research and learning technology which I have a peer review overdue for right now. Open is up spaces for sharing and increasing our understanding of these problems. Human problems about coping with change, about supporting colleagues and students, about limited context where the need for assistance is great. These spaces and the conversations that are able to be contained within them are lifeline to those of us working in this field and through participating in them personally I've gained knowledge, support, a professional network to turn to when needed but also colleagues and friends who are a vital part of making this work worth doing. So yes don't bring me solutions bring me problems. Thank you all. Thank you very much to Peter and Laurie for helping me keep this madness on track pretty much. Our participants I should say that it's not easy coming up here and I'm sure they didn't know what to expect. Most of all it just works because everybody gets involved. So from myself thank you. Good to meet you all. Thank you very much to Martin and Martin for taking the space and thanks for that. Cheers.