 Hey everybody. This is Christian Buckley doing another MVP buzz chat. I'm talking today with Paul. Hello. Howdy. It's great to have you and for folks that don't know you who are you where are you and what do you do? Yeah. So my name is Paul Wyn Stanley. I'm based as you could probably tell from my accent out in the UK and England. I'm originally from the north of England from a place called Barnsley, which is an old coal mining community until the 80s when they all changed. But I live now in London. I've been living here since the mid 90s with a wife and the kids and everything. Yeah. Been here a long time. So I'm a, what would you say I am? I have my own company. Independent. Independent limited company called SCCM Solutions. And I provide services through that to whoever wants to take me on board with cool projects basically. So I do a lot of, I spent a lot of time in the past working with config manager, SCCM. And a lot of stuff now is cloud based. So moving in towards in-tune in the last sort of five years. And that's starting to grow into other things around Windows 365. A little bit of security now as well. Yep. Keeping it being ever so important. So yeah, that's what I do. A lot of the enterprise mobility MVPs have become dual security MVPs or switched over to security MVP entirely. I know the buckets change a lot. And I'm not sure entirely what that means with an enterprise mobility space. I didn't make that cut. I saw that the other day and there was a few people just kind of suddenly pinging on and saying, no, I'm security now. And it's an interesting thing to see. And it is blurring. It is blurring quite a lot. I mean, I'm doing a lot of work at the minute around conditional access, for example. So, you know, that that bolts in in quite a big way. And I spent the last few weeks really digging deep on that. Started doing a blog series on it based on on that learning experience, you know. By chance, are you playing with the new shared channels and teams with conditional access? No, no, not yet. So what I'm doing at the moment is playing with the templates that Microsoft give you and exploring those. So, yeah, no, I haven't haven't dipped into that one yet. Yeah, I'm sure it'll come up as you explore more but more but that's a, you know, one of the, you know, kind of governance, I don't know what you call it, you know, stops, you know, the way of stopping the movement towards the shared channels but yeah. Yeah, no, I found it quite interesting in that I'm looking at experience. Yeah, in that particular area of the moment, what happens if you do this. And obviously you have scenarios you can you can click in the console, create these scenarios, etc. And look at them but it doesn't give you the feedback that you would get by actually physically clicking the buttons and going on to the iPad going on to the Mac whatever and seeing that so I'm trying to capture through this series presently I'm working with a friend in the community who's based out in Michigan. And we're looking at what ifs, yeah, like I say so you click it what happens on the endpoint. What happens in on the back end what do I see you know looking at the signing logs what what I expect to see is it what's been reflected there, and all these various things I'm fine. It's, it's kind of weird because it's one of those areas I would have gone before and dismissed it and gone oh yeah yeah you know, and now I'm looking at it and going. Okay, this is interesting. So, yeah, where security, you know, before, as I say you wouldn't have taken it on board as much now definitely so a lot more hands on in that area really. Well it's interesting. So before I got in the Microsoft ecosystem back in 2005 and I worked in the IBM world I worked with rational software and I worked with it did consulting around software configuration management and so you know the for folks that don't know what that, you know, SCM, like that world it's, you know, it all got kind of morphed into the DevOps world the broader DevOps space. It's, it's just interesting. Again, like the, like the MVP buckets that you know the areas of focus kind of change and evolve, where you can have people that are working on the same team and seemingly very similar areas and then one is going to security and one is remaining enterprise mobility. Yeah, I mean I'm finding that you know that the programs themselves, as well as becoming more blurred as well you know with the cross pollination of things so you know where again I'm doing a blog series now Brady around Windows 365 and, you know, a lot of the conversations are all happening where before we would have a conflict manager conversation and we were very isolated they're doing that thing. Yeah. Now we've got okay when 365 bolted in we've got MDE bolted in all this kind of stuff so it's but there's a lot to take in. But it used to be, I don't know if it still is or not it used to be that I mean you earn your like I was a SharePoint MVP. And so there was I was because I was doing focus so much just on the SharePoint space. And then it got you know went to you know the office servers and services, and, and then office apps and services now Microsoft 365 apps and services. But there were, you know, people that would come in the unified comms that were like teams MVPs, there were Yammer MVPs, there were PowerPoint and word and Excel MVPs and now all of those things are in that one bucket. Microsoft is also streamlined and part of it, I suspect is just a personnel management of the MVPs for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot of changes happening as well I think behind the scenes. But the other side is that you often you don't come in and talk about the single product because like we talk a lot about I talk a lot about Azure and the different Azure touches on different things. I'm not an Azure MVP I'm no we're close to becoming a dual MVP but somebody to become an MVP needs to be much more focused than I think that once you're an MVP, we can almost kind of broaden out into talk about right about speak about multiple products. Yeah, I think so. And, and, you know, I'm seeing that I mean definitely seeing that in myself as well in the things I do with customers. Okay, I mean there's a lot of pressure at times as well being an MVP being asked everything across the board but but coming in a certain a certain angle I could say comfort manager back in the day as we branch out more today. You've got to keep up with it you've got you've got to know it, but you get asked and you're expected to be an expert in it as well. It's, it's challenging. You've got a lot of work to do you've got then the, the community side to do, and then the learning side, you know you take on a lot of things and it's fast paced. Currently isn't it it's really, it's interesting. It's interesting times at very very hard to keep up with it. So, I hear that question a lot is like how do you keep up and I am my answer is that it's like you do your best but I rely a lot on fellow MVP's and you know so certain people that I follow that I trust I know their voice and what they cover and so I'm able to kind of take my eyes off certain areas and go focus on other things and then go and get their their summary of things. What was your path to becoming an MVP. Yeah, well, good question. So, I started a blog. It's 10 years in May. I think 2013 I started my blog. And I created SCC and mentor.com now. It's only got one and I say this every time it's not SCC mentors a Brangelina combination of words yeah. And really only started it up as a self help knowledge base. Yeah, it wasn't to, it wasn't going out there to promote me in any way or shape yeah really just kind of here's a problem. I do lots of documentation but I wasn't really keeping notes at the time. You know through one note. Yeah, yeah, but at the time I had nothing so I just went okay I'm just going to create a website and I've been working with a consultant. I had a chat called Dave Lee who was who's an exchange consultant who'd been working on a project with me and he'd done a few bits and I thought this is pretty cool. I might do that kind of thing so that's how it all kicked off originally just by doing that and then you know you look at the stats and people are actually coming from all over the world and looking at this thing. And I thought well you know I freelance. This is a good way to help promote me as a as a contractor yeah and and that and then that kept spinning and I contacted a user group in England called W mug. The management user group ran by a chap called Rob Marshall and said, do you want is there any way I can share out some of these blogs through the through the site. And he was like, yeah, we kind of do but we kind of can't plug that in would you be willing to write some blogs on the site. Oh, we meet up would you map would you know we have a little video meet up because we're based all over the UK and then we have physical meet ups do you want to come and present. Yep. I was like, um, okay, because I'm not presenting still, I'm still not great with it yet. But sort of that it just kept snowballing from there really and just contributing more reviewing videos reviewing books that kind of thing and it's just from there. And it was I think it's about three years into three, yeah about three years into doing the blogging and that kind of thing that I got nominated. Got rejected. And then left it and then the next year I just thought you know what I'm going to give it another go and really went for it and then all of a sudden I got quite a few nominations coming in and it just kind of happened so yeah I've been on board for six years now but really didn't it wasn't an agenda or a goal for me at the time. But then, like I said at that point when I decided it was like yeah I'm doing it now. I've got to get on board. That's always the question of like, you know, how much can you or should you push, like make it that gold become an MVP. I think that the guidance that I share and and as I mentor a number of people that are interested in becoming MVPs but it has much more about like you're doing the stuff because you enjoyed it because it was helping you with your work and building your network and do all those things were, you know, independent you're going to do those things regardless of having. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and not everyone makes the cut. Right. There's a bit of a black box I mean there's some people that I got just the announcements just went out yesterday. Is that right yesterday. Yeah, yesterday. Yeah, yeah. Loose sight of what day it is with time I'm in a basement so you've been like time of day it is and stuff. But you know what the announcements that came out and there was somebody and I said the words was it's like it's about freaking time it's like there's one of those people like, I don't know how she wasn't an MVP years ago. She's been doing. Yeah. And so it's great to go and see but again it's a black box it's, it's, it's an award that Microsoft gives and they decide, and there's a number of different factors and we have no idea what those not like there's a checklist that I can have done all the things hand me my MVP it doesn't work that way. Yeah, I demand it. There's that you know there's certain people I see out there who I go, you should be on the program. And there's that there's a couple of people in particular I see constantly just not getting added on there. And it baffles me really but then you go okay, like you said there's a certain criteria. Are they meeting that. So you know when it happens, it's like oh my god, you know, amazing really and then then just getting renewed every year you kind of privilege that that happens really you put in the working but you kind of go. Oh I made it for another year. Yeah. And I was lucky that you know I was on board for you covered so I managed to go to a couple of summits and experience that. Who knows what's happening with that going forward. I really feel for the people are on board at present who haven't experienced that. Yeah, that's the best. That is the best part of the best part of the award is that chance to network with the product team. They're in Seattle to meet all the other mbps I mean there's nothing like it it's an incredibly powerful networking opportunity and benefit to the program so I hope they bring that back as well. Yeah, and drink beer. Yeah. I mean just, I mean you can't replace them at no amount of virtual can replace the power of in person. It's really hard I mean I know when we're there I really struggle with the jet lag when I'm over there and you know it's caffeinated up come on. Yeah, so while I drink lots of coffee I get no impact of caffeine at all I'm falling asleep while drinking it but yeah it's one of those things but you know you're in the room you're there you're present. And when it's the virtual life is happening behind you. Yeah, you know the kids are around you need to get involved in the meal. Yeah, for the nighttime all this kind of stuff is happening and you can't focus in the same way. Yeah, and the experience as you say it's not the same. Yeah. It's not it's the content is different. I mean what what's happened with a sorry this for everybody like soapboxes like I realized that Microsoft is there changing things up and around there but what happens is the content gets condensed because nobody wants to sit there for an hour and So there's less content so that it becomes more marketing content rather than any deep dive. So there's not really any true technical content. There's not the truly the ability to to do the back and forth and ask questions and here and see the faces and who's asking those and then go follow up with those people like hey I had the same issue but I didn't ask the question but what are you doing around this and I mean those other sidebar conversations. That's the biggest loss from doing the online events. But I realized things are changing, but like if you look at your events over the course of the year, you need to balance that between digital and in person. There needs to be a mix. Yeah, I mean the the MMS stream came back. I think last year was the first one. I think they may they may have done a, they do a fall autumn fall event, which kind of was the first and then they did the 2022. I was, I was down for 2020 to be presenting there. I haven't submitted for this year unfortunately so I'm not going to be there this time and I've never been to one and that's kind of like the big, the big thing for us to kind of get involved and meet people. I think that's, you know, if the if the summits don't happen I need to I need to do that next year. Yeah. The events are slowly trickling back in the UK. I haven't been to any since, but hopefully they're going to that's going to change and going to turn around but pop up. I mean, look, I realized that there is in the cover of the collaboration the M365 space, we have the community days.org site. And there's a lot of other events you might go take a look at that if you're not familiar with that. There's Microsoft centric events around the world. And so you have an active calendar there's like, you know, a dozen in the next 30 days that are happening at different places around the world. And so it's just a great way to look at the variety of different, some free some paid, you know, events that are happening. It's mostly free events that are on these were very inexpensive. But again, so there's more that you can go and submit to and participate in and actually there's some big ones like I'm at there's an M365 conference happening in Las Vegas in May. I didn't submit not planning on it but I'm attending it. Yeah, be there with with with my company I'm partnering with and it's going to be great just to see people and do the networking aspect of it. I mean, that's the thing with the summit, you know, I mean, just meeting the people on the team meet another MVP's, you know, recognizing the face you may have seen who's been blogging and just going up and chatting to them. Socializing with the product team all that kind of thing. Yeah, you know, those days are coming back slowly. Yeah. Well, Paul, maybe the last question for you is like, for, because I'm sure you've heard in six and a half years that you've been because I've read they were new at in, in, like, June, July timeframe, every year. But people probably asked you like, you know, what, what should I do like what's the what's the process what do you what do you tell people how do you recommend that they should get plugged in to get on that MVP path. Yeah, just get involved really, you know, I use Twitter a lot as a way to start to get to know people. Yeah. Obviously kickstart with some blogging get some content out there do that, but start to involve yourself with some conversation on Twitter. Or social media. I mean, there's, you know, there's so many channels aren't there to get involved in. I mean, I don't use Facebook anymore. I use I use it to promote the blog, but I I start I slow down but then you go and there's there is in Microsoft 365 community with over 60,000 members on it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's some it just depends you go go. I wouldn't write it off entirely, but I had a backlash with Facebook you see at one point I was like no I don't want to see all these things off I go. So I do promote my blog I mean some of the groups there as well but I don't get involved. I spend too much time on Twitter really. And it's really getting involved get to know the people a little bit. You know, who are these kind of gurus experts, etc. and and learn things I did a lot of my learning with technet forums. Yeah, and I just plowed in time. I'm going to Jason Sand is around about this actually. One of the one of the X MVPs for config manager now works for Microsoft and saying you know because he was getting huge amounts of points on that thing. And saying how do you find time to do this and how do you know all these answers you know and he was like, I don't know all the answers I'm learning through it. So I was okay it's not just me then yeah. You know, the question will be asking you go off and research and come back with an answer for someone you'd learn from that. Yeah, so you know, to participate in that way. Try and get involved in a user group if you can in some way. That was I found that really beneficial finding like minded people who, you know, we're good good friends and just, you know, we had a laugh as well as Yeah, stretching ourselves out when the events were like oh my God there's 150 people just turned up and the AV stuff's not working you know and all that kind of fun. And if you don't find a group but there's nothing near you like start one. It's, yeah, I've done that internally where there's four of us sitting during lunch, you know once a month and with the topic and kind of take turns kind of sharing your. I think you had good friend of mine Ben Whitmore on a previous and then his first ever user group up in East Anglia in the UK. And he came down met I've met him and he said, you know, I said that I can present. I'd love to. Yeah, traveled up there and there was about eight or nine of us in the room. I was killing the screen behind me, you know, presentation skills, terrible, turning, turning TVs off rather than clicking slides and everyone's just kind of like, God, but you know, he started it up and that was his passion and yeah, you know, in in in an area that was difficult to, you know, transportation wise to get to. Yeah, but people had to make that leap across to effort right. Yeah, but you know it was it's, he did it and then off he went and you know he's he's out there and he's an MVP. Yeah, it's kept at it. Well, I think that's another is if you talk about the look for benefits look at the bright side of the pandemic is that there are more virtual opportunities than ever before. So a lot of user groups that were in person, you know, have moved a lot of them purely online, which opens up more opportunities to go and get involved in to present and share some of your experiences. Yeah, absolutely. And if you know if you have, you know, as I say, I find it daunting still to present. But the first time I did it. Oh my God, you know, but the virtual event can help, because you haven't got 3040 people staring at you. You know, you can just focus in on what you're doing and you know, present. Yeah, I think that helps in a way. And as you say, there's there's opportunities to go and do those presentations anywhere in the world. Yeah, you know, I've done a couple of one or two in the morning out in the state so go for it. Yep. It's really it really is just getting involved if it's a passion you'll do it. Yep. Yeah, that that's the thing find your passion and pursue it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Paul really appreciate your time today and hey I hope to see you at one of these. These MVP summits if they start happening again. Fantastic. Really enjoyed it. Thanks, Chris.