 You know you spoke to this regime of control, but it's not presented that way. You know, it's not presented by hey Okay, we're this regime of control There's a narrative behind it and it's this this story of progress right that with this this region the control is Presented as progress right and that's how we sort of all decide to Participate in it right or you invite people to participate in it And you know I was listening to a talk that you said that you know something about what's happened with the pandemic It's also given us a glimpse of what the endpoint of that kind of looks like right We're all living at home and we can order everything online. We can meet online. We can have things delivered to us We you know have as soon as there's a medical problem We can quickly mobilize a vaccine or something to be able to solve it I mean it's you know I like how you Articulated that that is giving us a glimpse of what the endpoint looks like and it's giving us pause to say wait a minute Is this really a direction that we want to go it's making a choice that had been Implicit and unconscious into something more conscious And maybe some people think this is a great future, you know, everything's very convenient and you are as safe as possible Safety and control Go along with separation with insulation and this is this is like one of the deep myths of Our civilization civilization I would even say more than our culture Can you tease that out a little bit more because you really articulate the story of separation versus the story of interconnectedness and without going into You know a long explanation of it like what is this core thing? How does it feed into one story versus the other basically if you understand yourself as a separate being in a world of force and mass in a world of of you know Particles out there randomly Subject to the forces of physics And in a universe that is inexorably degenerating toward entropy Where the forces of nature are arbitrary and there's no intelligence in the world Outside of ourselves, but human beings are the sole intelligence and the sole source of Order if you believe all that That's and that's separation, you know the separate self in a world of other in a you know in an inhospitable impersonal dead Universe or unliving universe if you accept that then of course You're going to be a lot better off if you can protect yourself from the random forces of nature And if you can exert control over them and harness them to your To your desires to your benefit And this is true as as individuals, but also as a species So this story the myth this is a myth, okay? I'm not going to say whether it is True or not or quote just a myth That's not actually a helpful way to think about it. It is a myth therefore carries a Truth that can align us with something. Okay, the myth says that human beings once upon a time were helpless superstitious Ritualistic but because we have big brains we developed more and more capacity to Control the world outside of ourselves through technology and that as this capacity has developed We've become better and better off longer and longer lifespan safer and safer more and more powerful and that someday And this is going to continue in this glorious triumphant ascent of humanity and someday Maybe we'll be able to exert complete control on the world on our genes on molecules and atoms and we'll be will enjoy immortality and we'll be able to engineer suffering out of our brains and through control of neurotransmitters and everyone can get an implanted ship to interface with your neurons and provide you only the best experiences and any germ any other organism that is out of place we can Banish Banish that we can destroy it and we'll have perfect health because Life is fundamentally a war of each against all and The the the other beings the bacteria the viruses the germs They're not they don't care about you. In fact, they are happy to maximize their self-interest at the expense of yours so that so that that separation that that sense of separation Automatically leads to a notion of progress that is built on control