 Most of the manufacturers are reacting to the downstream. They never talk enough about how they are changing the product upstream. What is coming up in the pipeline? Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing Podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody. Welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams, and we have a great guest on the show at this day. We have Mahesh Ramadhan, who's the president and CEO at Global Network for Zero on the podcast with us today. Mahesh, welcome to the show. Thank you, Zach, for having me, and it's great to be with you today. Mahesh, you are, and I'm going to put you on the spot, you are halfway across the world. Is that right? It's like 9.30 your time. And you work with people like East Coast time as well, right? You're working around the clock. Yes, yes. I'm super impressed. I think this is like the latest we've ever interviewed somebody. So thank you for being very committed. So for our listeners, just give us a little bit of a background on who you are on Mahesh and what your organization does. As you rightly pointed out, I'm the presidency of Global Network for Zero, and where we convene a coalition of leaders dedicated to progressing society towards ESG compliance and ultimately a zero emissions world. So our primary focus, if you really get to the actions that we want to do, which is to digitize climate action by doing two things. One, either through developing cutting-edge breakthrough new technologies and solutions that will help to eliminate the market barriers to zero emissions and also to help those who are on the ground, tasked with implementing ESG and zero emission strategies. In short, we are focused on implementation on the ground and we are going to drive it through digital transformation. And then in addition to that, we also focus on education and connect all these implementers with existing best-in-class practices, technologies and solutions that allow them to eventually make measurable progress. So personally, as an investor convener and unifier, I have a ton of experience in leading global technology platforms and my passion is on integration and interoperability of various systems because I believe that's the only way the sustainability sector can scale. Now my experience is both in non-profit as well as for-profit sectors and I spent a lot of time talking to businesses, community cities, buildings, infrastructure and of course a variety of industries to help them realize their ESG and net zero strategies, goals and commitments. And before joining, before starting, I should say, before starting founding the Global Network for Zero as the presidency of US Green Building Council, green business certification and also the global technology ARC and there I had the wonderful opportunity to lead the lead rating system, the world's greenest rating system in the world and along with a ton of community members around the world, I was able to future-proof the internationally recognized lead rating system with a more rigorous and ambitious certification process, one that included the overdue and necessary decarbonization requirements for a net zero reality. So technically, we set the foundation for Global Network for Zero while we were at US Green Building Council and that has been one of my hallmark moments with the lead and working beyond lead. Of course, during that time, serving at USGBC for over 13 years had the wonderful opportunity to bring multiple groundbreaking programs that at this point of time are helping the society to realize sustainability, health and wellness, resilience and equity. That is really, really impressive. I was actually checking out your LinkedIn profile before recording here and my biggest question is like, you worked for, what's, you just mentioned like one of the largest, if not the largest green building, I mean, the Green Building Council, you're the president and CEO. I want to know like why you left and why did you start something that looks like, if I want to say like, it looks like a competitor to it. I mean, if it can't be a competitor, I mean, they're both not, it looks like they're nonprofits, but like, why did you go from one space to where you have a ton of influence to starting something completely new? So one of the foundational things I learned at USGBC was, you never stop innovating, right? So in the building sector, we went from version 1 to version 2 to version 3 to version 4 and then during my tenure, we got it even up to version 4.1. So perpetual innovation, perpetual continuous improvement is the hallmark of lead, is the hallmark of US Green Building Council and its community. So what I realized was that potential, that opportunity need to be extended to other industries. So the charter of US Green Building Council is buildings, but I wanted to go from buildings to communities to cities. So if you go back and look at the last few years of my leadership there, I tried to expand buildings to communities to cities. Then I wanted to go into infrastructure. Then as you can rightly understand that I'm an impatient person, particularly when it comes to climate change, I don't have a lot of patience in terms of us sitting on the sidelines. So I wanted to really get out there and take all this knowledge that I've developed at US Green Building Council and help the world. And what that means is that I boil it down to three steps. One, net less is critical. Net zero is essential, but net positive is the goal. And why I say that is because we can have net zero energy, net zero water, net zero waste, net zero carbon, but eventually it is about creating positive impact on people's health and wellness and well-being. So when you look at it from that perspective, the work that we can do from the learnings of the US Green Building Council is powerful. Now, even while at US Green Building Council, I never believed in the concept of competition because the work that we need to do is so huge. It's such a big social undertaking. So we cannot see anybody as competitors, but we have to see only everybody as a partners. So I always, I coined the term at US Green Building Council as partnership is a new leadership. So definitely I'm not a competitor at US Green Building Council, but here I am here to advocate for US and KBC and much more. And that's why I decided to get out of that box and give that opportunity to my wonderful team that I built there and my colleagues who are doing a great job there and then really transcend that leap from the vision to really get obsessed about zero emissions work. That's what I want to commit my next decade of my life to. I like that. I like that partnership. That's a great answer. And I respect the fact that you think that's not a competitor, but if I'm looking at your resume, I'm like, wow, that's a heck of a change. But I totally hear what you're saying. I think it makes sense. The question I have, if I'm a manufacturer, and I'm listening to you, Mahesh, the idea of net zero and I like how you broke down, you know, what is required? What is necessary in those different steps? But for a lot of manufacturers, they're saying, hey, I'm going to develop. I'm going to create what the market demands and what the market wants. And so you are effectively pushing an idea forward in the marketplace with local communities, with builders, with contractors, those in construction architects. What are some of the things that you see that are going to impact manufacturers in the next 12 months, as well as let's say the next three to five years? Where are things heading in the space that you really have expertise? I believe that, you know, I would say that most of the manufacturers are very clearly savvy to know sustainability is no longer a side act. Everyone has got a clear roadmap within their own supply chain or value chain to really embrace sustainability, to make their materials more sustainable, healthy and flexible. So it's not a new news for what I would say a savvy manufacturer or a manufacturer who is in the game. So this is not a new news for that leadership, but the challenge for them is emerging out of this pandemic. We are in this ultra inflationary environment. There is a enormous market challenge that's happening from a financial point of view. So the challenge will be is how do you do trade-offs? The biggest challenge in the next 12 months, even I would argue for 24 months is that manufacturers need to make a decision between doing the right thing and being able to survive because at the end of the day, the market is going to remand better pricing, cheaper, faster, smarter. So that is always a challenge, particularly even at USGPC we realize market transformation is a balancing act. So there is no shortcut. So my biggest worry for the manufacturers, on about the manufacturers is that how are they going to keep their good aspirations along with maintaining a healthy bottom line and most importantly preserving jobs because if you do things on the other side of the equation, then you are really not sustainable or sustainability is coming at a price and cost, which we don't want. So I would say manufacturers should not sidestep the focus on sustainability. This is the time to double down. This is the time to really find creative ways to make this sustainable even if means that it's a little bit of premium and not be discouraged by the pushbacks that you get from the market, but really advocate for it and push it. And by the way, clearly I recognize it's not an easy work. It's hard work, but the demand is there. People are really looking at long-term and then it's important that we remind COVID as the most important marker in all these things. So that is the first part. The second part is that is nobody is going to escape the zero emissions directive. Everybody needs to align to zero. Now, if you really look at it, even the United States, which was kind of a little bit confused for quite a long time recently passed the Inflationary Act, which means that ton of rebates, ton of money, ton of capital is going to flow and I'm an optimist. I believe that in the next two quarters, money will turn around, value will be appreciated and people who can deliver true value will survive. So I do believe that from that perspective, if they can integrate quality with the philosophy of zero and really align and be precise about defining the business case, delivering the value prop, particularly in the context of the occupants of the building in this case, then I think you will be able to identify yourself as a differentiated manufacturer and be able to sell your products faster, smarter, quicker. Now, all of these things, all of the people know, but what I'm reminding everybody is have conviction in what you are proposing, do the right thing and you will win for the long term. Is there anyone that you could think of that's doing this well, Mahesh? Like is there a manufacturer you hear that like you, you know, I don't know, just even in conversation, you say these guys are doing it the right way. They're pushing back as you mentioned, or they're really pushing the idea of net zero forward. I believe I'm not specifically net zero because net zero is kind of becoming a narrative. I would put that under the category of sustainability, health and wellness primarily. So if you take air conditioning manufacturers, there are some leading air conditioning manufacturers who are really doing this very well. There are glass manufacturers. There are corporate manufacturers. There are tile manufacturers. Now, I'm intentionally not naming particular people because I believe the industry itself has really raised the bar on itself, right? So when you look at them, what they have done for the last 20, 25 years, they've been working on it. That's not, this is not something that was just done yesterday, right? They've been doing this for a long term. They've been continuously improving their products. They've been constantly keeping track of current regulations, policies, guidelines, best practices and really institutionalize the practice of sustainability as an integrated practice as part of their manufacturing innovation and most importantly, distribution. So I do believe those actors are really well ahead of the current and they're one step away or two steps away from truly hitting the net zero goals. For example, some of the manufacturers are really net zero factories themselves, meaning they are not only preaching to their product equation, but they're also actually making sure the factories in which these products are generated are truly net zero. Now, a couple of them around the world are already lead zero factories. For example, you could look at Colgate Pomaliv. Colgate Pomaliv has got 13 lead platinum factories around the world. They got their factories to be true zero based and today they're trying to push the agenda of really bringing a net zero focus to their products by reducing plastic, by reducing water, by reducing the consumption so that they can really consume less energy, less water, less materials, less resources, etc. So this is just one example, but there are ton of examples in each of these industry verticals that I talked about much more. So I am very encouraged by the fact that the manufacturers are taking a long term approach to doing these things and the people who are on the sidelines can learn from them and grow quickly and most importantly replicate their strategies for their own good. So that's my viewpoint on that subject. Mahesh, I was talking to an architect recently who I was just interviewing him for some market research and I was asking him like, hey, you know, what goes into the decisions you make around the products that you use and he was telling me about this project that he's doing where he's really trying to go that zero based product as you're talking about. And what I thought was interesting is he was sharing with me that he's like, hey, I really want to do this and he's someone who's in the field. He's like, I don't know everything about this and there's obviously people who are specialized in it. He's like, but I'm trying to find products in these couple categories that can help my efforts to move these different projects to a zero based implementation or zero based, you know, end result. What I'm curious to get your take on is if I'm a manufacturer and I've got products or I'm trying to push this, this different product development down the chain. What are some things that you see that are working for manufacturers from a marketing perspective and a sales perspective to get these products and get the knowledge around their products in the hands of people that actually make decisions for projects, whether that's an architect, whether that's an end user or a homeowner, if it's commercial or even let's say the GC contractor builder. Since you're talking about building so much, I'll give you my perspective from my prior job, right? Although, although my currently, I am still evolving that concept. What I've seen the greatest opportunity always existed for people was the lead rating system or the well rating system. That's another partner of us at USGPC. Developed by the International Well Beating Institute and the products like Cradle to Cradle, Cradle to Cradle certification, I should say. All these three things are kind of gold standards for you to really communicate the value proposition of your product itself. So the first and foremost, if I was a product manufacturer, I would ask my team, are you compliant with the lead version 4.1? Are you compliant with the latest version of Well? Are you really looking at the lead, the CTC version 4 that's out there? And how are we performing with it or above it or further than that? You know, these are three good starting points. Any manufacturer to start. Now, once you know that compliance has been achieved, then you have to articulate very clearly how you achieved it, what is the benefit to the consumer or the occupant or the building owner, particularly in the context of really accruing the benefits to the person itself. For example, I always say, when you want to talk about buildings, you have to talk about the people inside those buildings, which means that particularly coming out of this COVID, again, I'll underscore that how does it impact Zach? How does it help Mahesh? How does it impact the Zach's family? If you're able to clearly articulate the benefit of your product in the context of health and well-being of an individual, then naturally people are going to connect with your product better. And that's where I think I see an enormous amount of improvements people can make. Third is that celebrate the success stories of your products installation, how certifications were obtained and how these products have helped certain categories of lead certification or well certification or further matter, the Cradle to Cradle certification be realized within the construct of the consumers. This is an area that I've seen to be a little bit of a peak area for manufacturers. I will see them come with brochures. I'll see them come with even actually explaining the complaints, but they will never talk about how their product actually helped a building or a city or a community to actually achieve the X certification or a compliance or a regulation or whatever. And I think that's because it's a little bit of siloed effect the manufacturer are facing. So from a marketing and communication perspective, I always tell them why are you guys not talking about it, particularly quantifying the business. And it's not bad to talk about money because you know what is happening? The biggest market transformation opportunity of a building comes from the materials. The more you can clearly talk about very clearly, how much money did you save? How much price did you quote? And most importantly, what does it mean to the long-term implications in terms of the operational cost savings of that building or a city or a community, wherever you are and most importantly, what was the carbon footprint that you either contributed to it or you're avoided to it. So there is a little bit of transparency, a little bit of storytelling and a lot of value and values proposition. If you can do that, it shouldn't be it shouldn't be rocket science for a good market here. It's a dream job for a market here to basically put that out there and lead with it. So I mean, I believe that is the greatest opportunity for a manufacturer to really articulate that value proposition. The other part is that is most of the manufacturers are reacting to the downstream. They never talk enough about how they are changing the product upstream. What is coming up in the right because because it's a reactionary process. What one of the frustrations I had with the lead was I catch it too late. Then when I sit with the manufacturer, I have to empathize with them because they'll say mesh, I got a million pieces of this inventory. I had to move this first before I can drive transformation on that product. I understand. If I'm a CEO, I'll say sell that damn thing first. What am I language? So the reality is you have to be pragmatic about these things. But what you have to do is that is you have to start telling people. This is where we are going. These are the hardships we face. This is where we cannot substitute the product. Our product substitution comes at a very cost prohibitive barrier. Now that will require a lot of understanding from consumers, a lot of support. And most importantly, that transparency is also key. Last but not the least, I always have to give a shout out to my favorite show for GreenBuild. GreenBuild is our annual conference for sustainability. Go and get a booth there and scream at the top of your voice and tell all the stories that you have because this is the story you have to tell and that's where the story is told. So that's my deal. Okay. So I want to talk about GreenBuild really quickly because you obviously know it intimately. I've been to GreenBuild a handful of times. Okay. And one of the things I heard from manufacturers there, individuals who were at booths, is that there's a different level of degree of commitment that they would see to the green initiative. And at the term green, if you will, it's something where you lump in like, oh, we care about the environment into this like green category. And so, Mahesh, I'm bringing this up not to, you know, poke at those manufacturers, but more to get your take on. If you want to talk the talk, if you want to speak to architects or different audiences and really provide a solution that they're looking for, how would you define that green or how would you define that in a way that will really resonate with those audiences? It has to be based on a standards framework, right? This is where they have to lean heavily on the standards and the certifications and the credentials that they've achieved, right? So I think that's basically where they have to start. And most of the manufacturers do it. If you go around GreenBuild, most of the manufacturers would clearly show that they're compliant to a lead version 4.1 MRC credit. That's an easy lift for everybody. But then they also don't sit with the people and try to understand where they think the barriers are. Where do they think that these skepticism is coming? And really try to understand the needs and wants of those architects, right? In this case, if you are a specifier, also one of the things that nobody pushes back in the market is that to ask some questions saying, do you have a catalog of products that you have? What products you typically substitute? Why do you substitute them? Why do you choose a particular product? This is something that I've tried to even work with architect community to say, hey, can we get a list of products and can you guys publish it out there so that we can actually go out and crowdsource it from all the manufacturers and say that this... There's nowhere. Nowhere is there. Nowhere is there. Is this what you're going to do? Like you should do this. Someone should do this. Yes. No, I tried you. I tried you, right? I was researching Sips recently. Just like I went down like a rabbit hole researching Sips and I found this one Sip company that they make all of their products from like, like they use like straw and hay and they have like this zero emission promise. I mean, really cool and they're based out of Europe. I was like, this is really cool. Like if I didn't like to stumble upon them on Instagram, like how would I have found them online? So if you're listening, if you're a manufacturer, somebody like likes to show, there is, I think, I don't know, Mahesh. I think there's demand for like a centralized catalog of like these clean or net zero, whatever you want to call it, building products so that architects and people can find them easily. And I encourage you if there's a listener out there and you're listening to this and like, Hey, there's this already out here. Please, please send me a note because I don't Mahesh to my wrong. I don't know where to go to find that. If I'm an architect. Yeah. And you're bringing up a good point. This is why I do a GBC. I know this program called Better Materials so that we can give a centralized catalog of all materials used by products around the world. Now, I understand why architect doesn't want to share or a construction leader doesn't want to share that list because it's there, what I call USP. It's their IP to an extent, right? But, but, but that's understandable. But however, that for the broader good, we can put that in a broader platform that people can have an indication saying, look, this product has got all the right documentation. It is already verified for complaints with lead or verified for complaints with well, whatever that is, so that the search process itself eliminates all that back and forth that you need to do to basically get to that stage. Now, let me, let me give a shout out here for a platform that you know, I, I at least I have a great. Here we go. Let's hear it. It's called Eco Medis, ECO, E-C-O-M-E-D-E-S. And when you look at Eco Medis, Eco Medis has got a ton of materials that has been demonstrated to be compliant with many, many multiple standards. Now, one of the goals was to basically work in that platform with that platform and similar platforms and create a unified interface for people to be able to go and actually do a Google type search and see that whether that material exists, if it exists, whether it is verified for XYZ certification and then what are the associated documentation? You know, this is the place where we try to start and build and that organization is doing good work. And of course they can do much more, but that needs everybody cooperating and collaborating because it's very funny that everybody is searching for those materials, but nobody would make the effort to make it available for somebody else. So I'm going to say sharing. Isn't it interesting? Right? I find that if we really, like after Google, we should be doing a better job, right? If Google had thought that people never allow information to be found, then none of us would be happy today. You know, we are all happy with Google. So it's just a, it's something that really, really surprises me, but I do plan to spend a lot of time in that space. Just since you asked, dober network was zero will be taking a significant lead in the coming months or probably the coming, coming weeks, I would say to rightfully think about materials and products, carbon footprint and zero emission products and whatnot, because that remains one of my passion, a particular problem that other people are not solved well. So I like to attempt, attempt on it. If that makes sense. I love that. Mash, this has been awesome. And thank you for sharing a couple of these links too. I'll make sure we link to them in the show notes. If someone wants to connect with you or reach out, what's the best way for them to do that? I think the best way to do it is to connect through my Twitter, my LinkedIn, and the most importantly, Instagram, everything is available. But also please contact us through global network for zero through our info page. We will review and respond. Although we are a small team and we have a big network and we have good connections that we can bring it forward and we will learn and educate each of them. Excellent. Mahesh, again, thank you so much for coming to show them for our listeners. If you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you check us out at venue.com slash podcast to subscribe to get more. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams. Thanks everybody.