 Welcome. Thanks for being here for another episode of the nonprofit show. Again, welcome to you, William Schwab CPA data visualization manager with your part-time controller. Welcome, Bill. Thank you very much and I can't believe I mean almost 600 episodes that is unbelievable congrats congrats to you both. I remember right because originally this was only supposed you was only going to go on for a couple weeks right and look at look at this it's amazing. Well, you know, we've learned a lot of words and a lot of concepts over these 600 issues. I gotta say data viz is one of them. I'm when I first heard that I'm like, okay, that's ridiculous somebody just made that up and now data viz. It's a hot topic and it's even in your title. It is. Yes, it is. Yeah. And a whole group within just within yptc dedicated to it are what we call our data visualization group or dvg. Okay, what. So, so talk to us about this whole concept because you're, you're telling us that we need to really look at how we're presenting information first and understanding this at a core level, not just because it's fun or different but this is really something that we can help all of us understand the numbers is that right. It really is because if you think about it. You know we always say, you know, for, and it's funny I say this as an accountant right like I spent the better part of my professional career, preparing understanding interpreting and explaining balance sheets and income statements you know I'm saying well maybe that doesn't matter as much but it does because we're just saying, look, human as as human beings we are confronted with so much information on on a on a daily basis on a minute by minute basis even and, and certainly the pandemic has served to accelerate that so, you know you think of your typical nonprofit director and just the, the number of information streams with which they're bombarded by sitting down to read through a financial statement is not something they're going to have time for, but there's important information there and there's important stories to be told and that's where the data visualization component comes in it's really helping to highlight and pointing to and saying this this right here this this is what the most important story is. This bill, one of the things I think of for data visualization, like that is right up the, I don't know what do you want to call it right up the lane, if you will, for the board of directors because I also think dashboards charts graphs, you know, pivot tables, that is what board really eat up because it provides data in such a visual way that is easier to grasp now I myself bill I'm a very visual person very you can tell me what's on a chart and it means nothing until I can see it. So I love that we're talking about this because I'm listening, you know truly from how we might present information to our board, but it's actually more about all stakeholder groups is that correct. It really is and I'm glad you mentioned the board I know I focused in on an executive director but what we've seen from from our experience at YPTC is it's really many diverse constituent groups and stakeholders within nonprofits. They may not know that they're asking for graphics but they're asking questions that can best be answered by a graphic right so it's like, you know maybe you have a development director who's looking at data and say, Oh my gosh like fundraising statistics are amazing we need to highlight them to our board, or maybe a board member is saying, I see this number on our, you know, on our balance sheet. You know it's telling us how much cash we have well is that enough not enough too much what what's the context behind it, and then maybe on the flip side of that back to my executive director example and executive director might be saying, you know these numbers and this is what we have to highlight for our board and all of those can be answered by by a data visualization. Yeah. Another thing I really have gotten into is infographics, and I love having you know a sheet that literally is graphics of information so it really is that visualization of data. In the dean bill a lot of annual reports, move into an impact report like instead of having a 2728 page, you know brochure, it's simplifying into maybe a variety of infographics, but ways in which that can be used as this very sage woman told me never cook one thing for dinner that you can't have multiple multiple options for so I think about this in a meatloaf strategy right it's okay we have the ground beef, we have the data. How else might we use that ingredient, if you will to repackage repurpose so Julia I think of you all the time because that to me is such a critical component. No, that's I like the meatloaf comparison now. Now we have a term we we call one when we're taking data from different sources to combine the visualization we call it that that's a data smoothie, so you can add that one to your repertoire. Yeah, mixing together whatever flavors flavors you want but but it's so it's so true and you mentioned you know you mentioned annual reports and we're seeing, we're seeing more and more clients asking for us to help them. To get those impact statistics in embedded in their annual reports but even better, because as great as an annual report is it's it's basically obsolete as soon as it's published right so we've even had clients coming to us and saying, these statistics that we put in our annual report that said here's our impact. Let's refresh that on a regular basis and keep it on our website so that at any point in time funders the general public all those stakeholders they can come in and see at a glance the impact that the organization is having. So talk to us then I'm hearing like maybe we need some data visualization that stays static and maybe we need some that remains dynamic, meaning we can update it and what does that look like static versus dynamic. Sure, so, so really static you know if you think of static, you know, in its simplest form, it really is, you know what you see is what you get you know it's a graph it's as of a point in time right so you know let's say something as simple, you know as looking at, you know a cash forecast and certainly something of great interest to so many nonprofits out there. But it's there because it tells a specific story. Now that's not to say that that story is not going to change from month to month so when we stay static we don't mean we only do it one time and that's it. The graphic was created to tell a one time story, but that's not to say that it's not going to adapt and change to tell either an evolving story or a different story in in coming months. And we've even had clients where you know maybe we've prepared that that cash forecaster that or that that chart that shows revenue, and they've come back and said, Okay, this is great. So based on what we're seeing here we're going to take action on this so now we want the next version of this graphic to now chart our progress towards this goal that we've set for ourselves. I love it that's super nerdy. That's super nerdy one of the things I'm not a numbers person like I know what I know and I know what I don't know Bill and I will tell you I'm not a numbers person staring at financial documents is like it's Greek you know like I can comprehend it but it's going to take me longer than the average bear, probably to really grasp it and it's a little embarrassing I'm saying this on national live webcast. However, that's the truth. So seeing this in a visual visual concept. Julie it makes me think we've had some amazing guests on that talk about you know being of board service, and you're going to meet some today that you said you haven't even seen in person. The logistics we've heard really is it takes about a year or two years before a board member truly gets into their own and their confidence to ask questions, especially about the financials. So having the static dynamic document or, you know, possibilities, I think helps to engage the board members at a deeper level. Have you, have you seen that to be true. Absolutely. And I think and Julie I think one of the slides we have today speaks to like these three core concepts of design principles, and that feeds a lot into what you were saying Jared where it's, you know, that that first concept that we talk about is, we want to, you know, we want to put what you're in. Right, you know, I mean I think most board members and and I mentioned this earlier you know, I've spent the bulk of my career and as an accountant I'm a CPA right but to your point Jared you know some folks they're, they're not, they're not numbers folks and that's okay. And frankly that the human mind is just wired to absorb images far more readily than it's than it's wired to absorb numbers so in those core concepts we say you know, invite the reader in you know make them want to engage in in the content. And we kind of use it in and when we and we've done some of this training internally for our staff as well we give the example of something being either foreboding or inviting. And we use the example we actually put two pictures up on the screen we do this we the one picture we put up we literally put a graphic up of this big old stone prison. And right would you feel invited and the point is you're actually not supposed to feel invited right it's supposed to make you feel uninvited, but yet that's how a lot of traditional financial statements are they are foreboding there they don't have that sense of inviting whereas if you build the visualization right, it says to the reader, hey there's a lot of really great information in here you need to come in and see this. I so appreciate that. Because when I think of who's around the board table, and then how do we get because we truly want board members to engage in conversation we want them to ask questions we want them, you know, to ask the hard questions that's their job. And I love that that you share that it seems so basic. And I'm sure I am curious. How do we put this in a visual way if we're not a graphics person right like how do we make this, if you will, so remedial to create a visualization in a way that if we're not a graphics, you know, more person how do we do this. But it really leads into the other two core design concepts that we have so you know I mentioned the first one that you know invite the reader and so once we've gotten them through the door right you know we, you know we're not, you know it's a it's a welcoming door as opposed to the prison analogy that I use but we say, you know, slap in the boat and breathing dragon in in the visualization world and in designing a good visualization right less is more right and we always say like, tune out the noise and turn up the So I like to use the example, you know, think of, you know, think of think of like a word search game right you know that we all that we all did in school and elementary school right where we're spending time trying to find the words on the page. And that's a fun exercise, but it's not a fun exercise if you're a board member trying to read a financial statement and quite honestly that's what a traditionally formatted financial statement might look like so, you know, you almost need to, you know, give the board member that word search with what's already circled so you're pointing to them saying this is the story this is what's most important and that's what we say by by tune out the noise get rid of what you don't need and just focus on on what you do need, which also then leads into the third core concept which is interpret explicitly you know make your point and make your point multiple times right it's okay to it's okay to repeat yourself and say this is the important concept and maybe, maybe it's a you know a text interpretation you're giving that and the graphic is serving to support your to support your text, we take a lot at yptc kind of our static visualization standard that we've developed. It actually takes a lot of inspiration from from newspapers, and it does that on purpose because if you think about how the page of a newspapers laid out. It's laid out in such a way to draw the reader's eye to what's most important you know that headline grabs your attention right that's the invite the reader in and then invites you to dig dig deeper into the story. Now, I love that I love love love that of course I was in the newspaper business for 30 years so thank you for saying that because I just love that but I'm really interested in the mix between the story telling and that static graphic. You're really telling us that it's okay to paint the picture if you will, and to lead that that story as opposed to just saying, here are the numbers because it seems to me. And I don't want to use the word manipulative but it seems to me that you're leading them through a direction that you, you want to tell versus letting it being open for interpretation. And can you talk to us a little bit about that. Sure. And that really comes back a little bit to that distinction between what's, you know, a static visualization or a dynamic visualization right but but let's focus on on on static first because it's that it's that that like you said like the slide shows here it's that storytelling static graphic, you know it's telling an important story, and it's interpreting you know all those design concepts I mentioned it's interpreting explicitly for the reader. So we actually you know if you think of a chart or graph, the very first thing we put on a chart and graph that we might do for a client if you looked at the page. The biggest thing you're going to see at the top isn't actually the graph itself, it's it's a headline you know we call it a headline literally like in a newspaper like what is this chart telling you, you know and and maybe it's something saying, hey, and I'm just paraphrasing here but but hey, you're running low on cash or cash forecast isn't looking good for the next six months right like we're not going to sugarcoat the bad news if there's bad news to be told, but likely if there's good news to be told we're going to want to trumpet that success to and say look at this fan you know fundraising is up you know all rabbit you know whatever it is you know you're going to, you're basically giving away the answer first and that's okay because remember we said what did I say we said board members are pressed for time executive directors are pressed for time it's okay. You don't never never bury the lead right Julia there there's another old newspaper added so it's okay to say here's what's most important here's that headline, and then we give our interpretation well here's why that's important, and then we get to the graph itself, but if you only read the headline and the interpretation. I'm not saying the graphs not important but if you only read the headline and the interpretation. You already know the story that the graph is telling. Well, you know that's a great way to look at it that's a great way to look at it because if you, if you can understand that. To Jared's point, it seems to me that you're going to get board members that ask questions, but all too often and anyone who's ever done any board service. You get these these numbers of these reports and very, very few people will ask questions. So they're intimidated, you know, there's the clock is ticking and you're looking at that agenda and you know you got to get through all these things. And so it seems to me with the data is you're going to have more of an opportunity to get everybody thinking about a particular area. It is it's all about making the data accessible right data equity we want the accessible of the data accessible to all the stakeholders within the organization both internal and external. Wow. And I think to the more, the more positive the headline is or the data is and your budget is probably less questions. Right, because when things are working well. It's, why would we lift the hood and see what's going on right right as a fundraiser. That is when I lift the hood because I'm thinking. We know when things are dismal, we know what we need to do, but when things are really good, we don't often think about when things start to wax and Wayne. Right now bill I've seen a lot of my clients actually extreme experience extreme growth, which is good. However, the reality is that's not in perpetuity. So what are we doing now to prepare for that, three years down the road, when that funding starts to pull away. And that would be interesting to do an AB test of these headlines and the data visualization bill and maybe you've done it before is like, share the same news, but one of them says, you know, basically, hey, we're up the creek without a paddle and the other one says, we are loving this, you know this ride things things are fantastic, and to see kind of how it's how it's managed from from that interpretation of the people. It really is and you mentioned so many organizations that have had, you know, so much new funding over the past couple years and we actually had a client like that that we did a visualization for where it's like, they were, they were doing great, you know, great fundraising results wonderful, you know huge uptake over the last couple years, but when you started to look at the detail what the detail showed was, yes, it's great that you're getting all this new revenue, but the person but but a lot of it that's coming in is restricted. So, while your restricted revenues going up as a percentage of your total revenue you're unrestricted is actually going down. Right. And we actually kind of presented that as like a two part chart where we said look here's the total which looks great. But here's the percentage of your unrestricted that actually shows that downward trend. So we're not saying this is a bad thing but it's something you as a board and organization need to act upon and address. Be aware of right to truly have that awareness, so that we can get ahead of that and not have to be reactionary. So that's that's really good. So moving into the storytelling, let's talk about the graphic placement. I'm curious to hear, Bill, what you and your team talk about when it comes to this tips for success in relation to graphic placement. Educate us on this. So it's really about, you know, kind of understanding or kind of realizing and embracing the fact that a graphic can a graphic that's created can be used in more than one place. You know, maybe it's going in an annual report, maybe it's going in the monthly financial reports that the board is seeing. Maybe it's going on the organization's website and all of that is okay and and really should be embraced and just understanding that okay you know depending on the format of where this graph is going to end up. You know we want to make sure that it's something that that's portable that will that will translate from from one from from one version of the media to the next. I'm so curious, Bill, because I'm thinking of how I might use this and implement this practice with my clients and several are using YPTC by the way so so I know that they have the the concept behind this. So I would consider, you know, if it's an impact report or a quarterly report that you send that out either as like a PDF electronic version or hard copy version, and then you say on that document, you know, to see real time updates please visit this link, and perhaps that's where you're updating the dynamic information. Do you see that that ability, we do or we'll say you know hey to see the latest information, you know here's the link you're going to want to go to or maybe even a QR code we're starting to see that more where it's like hey, you know use this QR code it's going to take you know I mentioned one of one of the clients we worked with, you know put what they call their, their KPI report their leverage report that shows their impact right on their website and it's all live and interactive and you can can click through it even by program to see the impact that each is doing it it's absolutely phenomenal and has been utterly transformative for them. Yeah, I love this, and I think it's really where you know this next generation of donors and funders and philanthropic investors want to go. They want to see this and I think that we need in the nonprofit sector, we need to kind of get away from the if it's bad news we don't want to share it or we want to hide it. We don't want the good news. And so, I think this is a really interesting time. It is, and I mentioned, you know, kind of our, you know, our approach to how we'll put a, you know, a static graphic together and I mentioned kind of that that headline that interpretation and the graph itself but there's actually other, what we call sort of required elements so we have five things that we say need to be on on every static chart or graph so I mentioned the first three. The other, the other two are well who prepared it. You know, so we know hey it was a real person right or this is the person we can go to with questions, and the other item which arguably might be the most important. Although arguably any of the five could be most important but that final one is the source where'd you get the data from because even if it's bad news. You know we want to build credibility we want to have that credibility with the reader where they can say, Oh, this came from the accounting system or this came from our budget or this came from the fundraising database or maybe a combination of all three, which is the neat thing like that goes back to my data smoothie comment right like you can combine data for multiple sources which is fantastic. And I want to add to that and thank you so much bill because this is really got my brain, revving and high gear because there's so many ways to implement utilize this I believe. I want to give a shout out to anyone do grant writing and submitting proposals, because these documents when you're given the opportunity to add any additional documentation. This is good information to attach. So again that smoothie or that meatloaf concept, you know this is not only for accounting and this is not only for board discussions. This truly can be used to to level you know your message your narrative in that form of submission for proposals. I love love love love when the option comes up to attach up to three additional documents and they don't tell you what it what it has to be. That to me is a great time to go and say, What good information do we have that's relevant it's timely, you know, and I might attach this. Another good news is you can often attach multiple PDFs right and merge them into one PDF so maybe you have, you know, a couple of documents but you want to put them into one. That's, that's fantastic so I just wanted to make sure that we we take that meatloaf recipe even further. You know, Bill, this has been amazing and we are really, really excited to have you back on to keep going with this because, you know, this is one of those topics that is really, I feel like it's building interest and steam. It's a new way of communicating and it's a it's a stronger way of communicating. And so this is just, I think, a magical time for all of us in the nonprofit sector to really understand this. We do have you coming back on to talk more about this because this is where we need to be and we need to be understanding this so thank you I love that you're a CPA and that you are in swimming in this stream. I think it's super cool. I really do. It's so fun to be at this like intersection of accounting and technology. It's amazing and I'm grateful that everybody on your side is thinking about it because I gotta believe that this could be uncomfortable for some of folks in the accounting realm that it's, it's kind of changing the way that they look at information and that they present information. Here's Bill's information, so to speak, on the data visualization piece, your part-time controller. Again, we have Bill coming back on to talk more about this and this is, as we like to say, an evolving story. It's only getting better and getting more interesting. So Bill, this has been fabulous. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I want to make sure everybody, I publicly thank Jarrett Ransom, my intrepid co-host, the non-profit nerd herself for giving me a break last week. It was really nice, so thank you, thank you, thank you Jarrett for holding down the fort. I do appreciate it. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors without them. I wouldn't have been allowed to go away last week. Blue Moran, American Non-profit Academy, Fundraising Academy, Non-profit Nerd, your part-time controller, staffing boutique and non-profit thought leader. Again, we want to say thank you to all of those folks that are with us day in and day out. You know, Jarrett, I was at a real low point when I left on vacation. I needed a break for so many reasons and so I really know what it means as we finish up every episode. As we always like to tell everyone and remind ourselves, stay well so you can do well. Hey everybody, thanks so much for joining us.