 HBCU Digest, welcome back. Recent weeks have had a lot of positive developments with HBCUs and corporate partnerships and Norfolk State is at the heart of one of the biggest announced ones, a new partnership with Netflix that'll help students and faculty to become more integrated with their workforce development pipeline, their training and skills building. And today, one of the products of proud Norfolk State University graduate working with Netflix is gonna talk to us about the opportunities that can come about from a partnership like this. Michael Chase is a senior software engineer in Netflix Animation Technology Division. And Michael, it's a pleasure to have you on today, my man. Yeah, super excited. Donner is all mine. Tell us a little bit about your view of this program. Oh, and we're happy. We got Dr. Patricia Meade. She is the profession chair of the Department of Engineering at Norfolk State University. I thought she was firewall, but she's in. Dr. Meade, good morning to you as well. Good morning. And yeah, I feel good now that I figured out how to get past that firewall. That's a new one for Pat. We expect nothing less from the engineer, how to hack the network on your campus. We were asking Michael about his view of this partnership with Netflix and what it really speaks to in terms of opportunities for students and alumni like you who go from an HBCU to a major company like this. What does this kind of partnership mean? Yeah, it really, really means a lot. I think it's something that I definitely wish I could have had while I was at Norfolk State. Although I will say that the programs that Norfolk State has are always amazing and do a really good job at serving the students. This program honestly is nothing short of groundbreaking and I really believe that Netflix is stepping up as a leader and showing these companies out west like, hey, there's great talent at these schools, at these HBCUs and places like Norfolk State. And I think the students are really gonna enjoy it and gonna get some good insight and good information. And it's gonna set them up for a very successful career and future. So yeah, very excited about it. Dr. Meade, the partnership is gonna be constructed like a bootcamp starting in January of next year. And this is gonna go for a number of weeks and there's gonna be a plethora of opportunities to learn coding, to learn engineering. How valuable is that for Netflix to provide that kind of knowledge base on campus to faculty and students that you otherwise, probably it would be difficult to even pay for that or to pay somebody to come in and teach that. How much does that mean to the campus? Well, I mean, it's actually, as Michael just shared with you, it is highly innovative and groundbreaking. As a faculty member who actually spent a little time in industry and then came back and recognized the disconnect between the classroom and industry, the net, but that happened several years ago. I have to tell you that the experience that our students will have in this bootcamp is highly unique, very innovative and I cannot put a price on it. I'll put it to you that way. In some ways, I've kind of thought of this as a reality instruction. It's the real world, brought to the classroom and married in a way that both preserves the academic rigor while at the same time giving you the practical insight, the component that, well, the work that's gone into actually constructing the course, you can't put a price on that. That's just invaluable. And then to have the access to mentors while they're in this course, as well as the third partner is gonna provide some significant career service support to our students once they leave the course to market themselves and to get those opportunities in the real world that they're trying to get to. So I can't put a price on it. I can only tell you that in many ways, this is something that I've dreamed about and my dream has come true to some extent. So this is something that I can't tell you how excited I am to be a part of this. Can both of you all speak to, and I hate to do this because I don't want, it's hard enough for black folks to always have to speak for all black folks whenever we're in some kind of position of talking. But for the sake of the conversation, why do you think that this stereotype prevails, that it's so hard to break into these major industries and these major jobs when you're coming from an HBCU? And yet, even without racial unrest, even without political upheaval, HBCUs are still a target for companies trying to find diverse talent and diverse expertise. How is it that the people think one thing but the industries think another? Well, I'm gonna go ahead and jump in first, Mr. Chase, if you don't mind. So the research tells us that the number one reason why young people go into the engineering profession, I'm gonna speak from engineering, that is my expertise, but I think it's broadly true of STEM, is do they have a family member or someone that they have access to, that is in that profession. So it starts with what can you see for yourself and the choices that you make highly aligned with what you can see for yourself. If you can't see yourself being successful in a tech career, guess what? You're most likely not gonna go into a tech career. And on the reverse side or on the other side of things, if you don't have any vision or any role model of what certain types of people can achieve and do, guess what? You're gonna go with whatever your natural bias is, whatever your parents told you, whatever you see on TV and in the media. Those are the kinds of things that influence our choices and our decisions. So to get out of that, you have to make an intentional choice and intentional decision that guess what? I'm not gonna let that bias rule my action. And so from the perspective of why is it that we still, after 40 or 50 years of put underrepresented people, get them to go into STEM? We're still kind of at this place where we haven't achieved a critical mass. We haven't seen the fruit that we're looking for. I mean, there's some there, I'm an example of it, but it's just not where we want to be. So at some point you have to say, guess what? We have to be intentional about how we're gonna do this. And I think Netflix has taken a very big step forward on this is what intentionality looks like. First of all, we're gonna go where we can find underrepresented people. And second of all, we're gonna pave a pathway that gives them a real opportunity, including all the resource and access that everybody else would have access to. But these young people may not because they don't know as many people in the field. They don't have as many role models. They don't have as many mentors. So let's try to even the play and feel just a bit and see what happens next. Yeah, wow. Wow, I feel like you covered most, if not all of it. I think the one thing that I would add is just that really highlighting this access component that Dr. Mead talked about. It's one thing for us as individual black people to say, hey, I wanna go work at this tech company. But it's a whole nother thing to go from that statement to an interview even, right? Or even having your resume in a place where you can compete. And I think there's a lot of work that these companies have to do to bridge that gap, both for us as black people and specifically addressing the barriers that we face to education, the biases we face and being selected for those programs, and even some of the environmental factors. I don't wanna go off too much on a tangent, but this is way bigger than simply what is some company doing, right? And so we have to take that into account when we're having this conversation. And so I think that what Netflix is doing and why it really makes me proud to work there is we're saying, hey, we know that there are a multitude of factors involved. And so we are going to bring this program to these students and to these people and we're gonna make it accessible such that you don't even have to pay for it, right? And that in and of itself is huge. So yeah, a lot goes into it, but I think that's a big part. You touched on something that was critical and this interview is gonna be part of my who's hiring from HBCU series. And that is the, is it more than a notion to say that companies are getting better about rising above or in some cases being more conscious of stereotypes that hiring managers or mid-level officials may have because my brother's here, locks, facial hair, a shirt that says strong black lead. I mean, and he's gonna get a resume call in like 20 minutes and do his work and do it well. Is it that because Netflix is a company that values diversity which you can see in its products but is it that companies have to become more conscious of how we look, how we sound, how we feel, how we act, what's important to us? And that is the true measure of diversity not just bringing in folks to do a job but that when we get to that job and go into the office or go on Zoom that we feel a part of it. And do HBCUs have a role to play in companies becoming that much more culturally aware and culturally celebratory of different people? Yeah, I mean, I think it's no secret that some companies are doing better than others. Netflix has done an amazing job of really ramping up this even just in my short almost three years and working there, all of the talent partners which is our kind of fancy word for recruiters they get this training, right? They learn these biases and they seek to understand them and they'll help to account for it as well. And so it does play a pretty big role in ensuring that when we show up to these interviews as we are, right? And as we should be accepted, we can make it through and no one is looking at us saying, well, maybe you're not a culture fit or I don't know, maybe you're just not quite what I'm looking for. I think to some degree I can see where HBCUs and other institutions could play a role but honestly I think it's really up to companies to take notice of what places like Netflix are doing to make sure that we're looking at these candidates and saying you are a incredibly intelligent individual and this company would be better off for having you. And that's really it, as long as the HBCUs are doing what they're already doing and providing us with a rigorous curriculum and set of skills and knowledge, then really the ball would be in the company's court. I think I can agree with that. I can agree with that a hundred percent. I was checkling because when I first came out of grad school, everyone assumed that I was gonna get rid of my rubber aids, they figured, oh, you're just doing that because you're in school and you don't really wanna hang out at the beauty shop and get your hair done. But first of all, I still have to go get my hair done. No, I'm not changing my hair. But I decided to go into academe. I found that there was a coast bias there on the East Coast. I think they were a lot more sensitive, but on the West Coast, it was a lot more open. And I wonder if that's still the case. I mean, I'm talking about 15 or 20 years ago that was the case, but I think it is kind of up to the companies to begin to open up their ways of evaluating folks and trying to understand that you can't don't get turned off because of facial hair or braids or whatever your hairstyle is. You're trying to find the best talent because at the bottom line is you wanna make the money. You wanna be successful. So to the degree that you give folks opportunity and they demonstrate that, hey, we're doing just fine. I think that's kind of what will have to happen. But I think Mr. Chase has outlined it. I think it's mostly on the part of HR people and how they train and educate their workforce. Dr. Me, Michael Chase, it's been an honor to speak with you. We've looked forward to many of the exciting developments that are gonna come out of Norfolk State with this partnership with Netflix. And to your point, how a lot of the other companies will adjust to see what Netflix is doing and working to making that same thing possible for other HBCs around the country. We appreciate your time today. Thank you. Well, thank you.