 I think I have the best piece of advice for you then. Okay. I want you to start to trust your, your body. Okay. Because it will, it will lead you in the right direction. It sounds like you have a good grasp of, of how you feel and, and how to feed yourself. I'm just from talking to you. It sounds like you're doing pretty good. Trust your body because if you don't, it'll end up happening or what can happen. I've seen this many times is that someone's doing great, but because they don't trust their own body, they hop on this diet or they try this new thing. And then they ignore the signals that their body tells them because well, this is what I'm supposed to do. Like I just told you to eat 90 grams of protein a day. Well, what if you aim for 90 grams of protein and you get constipated? You don't feel good. Like ignore that. Right. Then listen to your body. Maybe less protein is, is what you need. Although I don't think so. I'm just using that as an example. Right. But trust your body. It's going to lead you in the right direction. It's giveaway time. Map symmetry again, because it's the new program we just released. Remember this program works on symmetry and balance in the body utilizing isometrics, unilateral training, and then five by five training. So that's the free program we're giving away right now. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel and then turn on notifications. Do all those things. And if we like your comment, we'll notify you and you'll get free access to map symmetry. Now everyone else. This is a brand new program launch, which means it's on sale. So it normally will retail for $177 right now. It's only $97 plus. We're throwing in two free ebooks, the muscle building secrets of isometrics and reverse dieting 101. You get all that for $97 with map symmetry, but the sale ends in two days. Okay. The sale ends on the 17th. So if you want to get started, do it now, save some money, get all that free stuff. Head over to mapsymmetry.com and then use the code SYM50 for that discount. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. If you have a slow metabolism and you want to speed it up, one of the key things you need to do is to eat in a calorie surplus. It's almost impossible to speed up your metabolism when you're eating in a deficit. Maybe one of the single most important things that I learned as a trainer to help my clients out and that I didn't understand the first, you know, five to seven years of training. Like this is just, it seems the opposite of what you would do. Totally. So when it comes in, they said across from you. They're struggling for, I can't move away. So I'm building the body first. Yeah. I need to lose 50 pounds. So we just assume that they're grossly overeating and not moving enough. And so, okay, let's move more. Let's eat less calories and what always ended up happening for, at least for me and my experience was I'd get this client who was already eating very low calorie. And even if I did get them to adhere to the diet and eat in a calorie restriction and we did see some results, a plateau was on the horizon and it was well before they ever reached their goal. And they were at this calorie consumption that was just not sustainable long term. Exactly. Because what happens, the reason why your metabolism slows down or speeds up is it's just adapting to your lifestyle. And by feeding yourself low calories, you're telling your body, hey, you need to keep this metabolism slow. In fact, you need to slow it down even more. You need to become more efficient. So if you want to speed it up, you literally have to do the opposite. You have to feed yourself a little more. Now, of course, simultaneously, you want to do strength training so that those extra calories go to muscle. Otherwise they'll go to body fat. But as you're feeding the muscle, the metabolism speeds up. You can't build muscle in a calorie deficit. So sometimes people say, well, I'm lifting weights, but I'm lifting weights. Why isn't my metabolism going any faster? We're still eating too little. You have to give those building blocks to your body so that it can actually do something with it, turn it into active tissue, which is muscle and speed up your metabolism. So the process should look like a slight calorie surplus or wherever your maintenance is, eat a little more than that and then do some strength training and get stronger. And then what will happen is your metabolism will react by getting faster by burning more calories. And then here's what happens. Instead of what Adam said, which is, you know, you cut your calories from where you're at and then you plateau real hard. And now I'm stuck in this low calorie. Now you've boosted your metabolism. You have a long way to go. You can cut calories and still be eating a normal amount of food if you will, way more room and way less likely to plateau. And I think the reason why it was such a difficult conversation, besides the fact that they're coming in there to lose weight is just the time a lot of it takes to really repair and build the metabolism to get it roaring as it should. If you've been in a calorie deficit for so long, which a lot of my clients coming in had been for like years sometimes. What do you think the greatest challenge is for the client? The hardest thing is that it goes completely opposite from what they thought they needed to do. And what you're essentially telling the client is, hey, we're actually going to not lose any weight. Potentially gain weight. Yeah, you might gain five pounds and we're not going to lose any weight, but you're going to get stronger. You're going to get more fit. It's really hard pill to swallow because you got to consider this, the average person has been thinking about getting in shape or thinking about losing weight for a while before they actually take that first step. So then they're finally ready. That's it. I'm ready to lose weight. Then they talk to a smart trainer and the trainer is like, well, it's good. You have to build a base here for about three or four months or longer before you attempt to lose weight. And it's like, I don't want to hear that. We'll talk about a major mental hurdle that these clients have to go through too because you figure that most these people have a body image issues when they come to you too. So you have body image issues and then you tell them they're going to increase their calories. And yeah, there's a lot of times that will make their clothes fit a little bit tighter and the scale might go up a couple pounds. I just, that's so, even if you can get buy in, like, okay, sounds like you know what you're talking about. Okay. That makes sense. I understand why we're doing it. But then that's the first hurdle. Then you get over that hurdle that it's like you have to let them know when they come to you like, I'm not liking this. My clothes are fitting tighter. I noticed the scale was up a pound. Yeah. Think about it this way, right? If you've ever seen a house get built from scratch, you pick a lot of land and then you want to see the house get built. And at first it looks like not much is being done. If you've ever watched a house getting built, where's the structure? Because they're setting the foundation. They're building the base, right? Then things start to speed up and they start to build the actual house. Imagine if there was no base, right? Imagine if there was no foundation. You would start to see the structure, but it would fall apart very quickly and you wouldn't have yourself a house. So what we're setting ourselves up for by doing it this way, by getting your metabolism to speed up through eating a slight surplus and training for strength, as we're setting the foundation so that this house that we build doesn't fall. You know why I like that analogy so much, too? Because there are some other things or other parallels with fat loss, too, is that the foundation piece is slow and very methodical and you've got to level everything out and you're plumbing everything. But the framing aspect actually goes pretty quick. It's a snowball, isn't it? Yeah. So once you get to the place where it's like... It's exciting then, right? Yeah. Everything's level, set. Now we've got to slap these two by fours together. The framing process of building a house is relatively quick in comparison to it, which is how I would explain that to them with the fat loss. Listen, it's going to seem a little slow at first, but while we're getting everything lined up the way we want to, but boy, once we decide that it's time to start really losing body fat, watch how quick it starts to happen. This is how effective fat loss typically looks like. It starts off slow and then it's got this kind of snowball effect and as faster and with less effort. It actually starts to feel more and more effortless as your metabolism is working for you. On the flip side, this is what bad fat loss looks like. Very quick and then a hard plateau. And then it requires more effort and more work to squeeze out every single pound and then you're stuck in this position where maintaining is almost impossible. This is a big part of the reason why almost everybody fails with this. If you look at the statistics on this, we've seen the weight back within the first couple of years and I would even extend that to 90% if we follow them just long enough. It's like everybody gains it back. Nobody sets the foundation. Another major hurdle, too, though, is the temptation on the trainer and the coaches part because it's very tempting for them to get a client to re-sign or sign up for them for more sessions by showing them quick results. You could show somebody a quick ten pound loss. They're relatively sedentary, not eating very well, changing their diet, reducing calories, getting them exercising, whether it be cardio or weight training. You can show that person who came in and said, hey, I want to lose 50 pounds, a quick five to ten pounds real quick. And a lot of times they get excited and then that's where they'll continue training. So part of the challenge is that the trainers and coaches take the easy path a lot of times because they know that if I do something and I hype them up and I get them pushing and sweating and play that role, and then they get to see the scale heading in the direction that they ultimately want, then it's easier for me to convince them to keep training with me versus overcoming all the things that we're talking about like, yeah, this is going to take longer than you wanted. Oh, by the way, I want you to eat more instead of less. Oh, by the way, we're probably not going to see any results for a couple months as far as weight loss is dependent on this paycheck to paycheck type of mentality where you're trying to please your client to keep them coming back and so you're tempted to then pull those things out to make them feel this temporary weight loss and now I'm happy and now we can keep progressing. But when in fact the best thing for them is this long term. So my dad does stonework. This is what he grew up doing since he was a kid. He stopped doing it because he's got injuries now as a result. He's done it his whole life. But he's from the old world and he does it in a way where if he does your shower or your bathroom, it's going to look incredible and it's going to last a long time. I would go on these jobs with him where people would say things like, well, I could hire these other people, they'll do it way faster and it's going to be much cheaper. My dad would be like, you can do that, but you're going to be calling me up to come fix it and tear it down and put my stuff up. And most people would listen to him because he was confident and he was referred, but sometimes they wouldn't. And I used to love going back to home and they would show up and they'd be like, you were right. You were right. They did a crappy job. I'm sorry. I got to pay you to tear it down or whatever. And that's exactly what you got to say as a trainer, as a coach. You have to be confident. You're the expert. You're the one guiding them where they want to go. So what happens is they think they know what they want, but they just don't know because they're ignorant to it. People don't understand what the process looks like. So you have to educate them. Otherwise you're not doing them any service. In fact, what you might be doing and oftentimes what happens is you're getting someone closer to never trying again because a person will only try so many times and fail before they're like, this isn't for me. I've lost weight and gained it back three, four times. I'm done. I'm not going to try this anymore. So if you're a coach or trainer watching this, your job is to make sure that it works this time and that they stay because we know the positive benefits of all this. By the way, reverse dieting is a little bit more nuanced to it. It's not just eating over a surplus. There's a process by which you increase your calories gradually over time to minimize fat gain. We have an e-book called Reverse Dieting 101. At the moment, it's not being sold, but we will sell it later on. But right now it's for free with the Maps Symmetry Program launch. So we launched a new program and that is going to be free with it along with the Isometrix book. So you'll get those two for free with symmetry. So if you're trying to build your metabolism, you can follow what that book says along with a program like Map Symmetry and you'll see some pretty good metabolism boosting results. Doug, did you settle in on what that will be sold for after the launch? It's $47. That's for sure. Each book will be $47 each. Okay. Yeah. So you get them both for free with the whole thing. Pretty cool. All right. You guys want to hear some cool red light therapy studies? I found some really good ones. Something new? I know. It just seems like all these benefits, they're studying so many different benefits that I've never even considered that it provides. There's always a new one. Well, so this is a review of studies, which is really good, right? So red light is a type of light. That has some very interesting effects on the body. So when you shine a particular frequency of red light, it's not just any red light, right? There's this particular frequency and intensity. When you shine it on your body, it literally power, it powers up your mitochondria. So your mitochondria are like the power houses of yourself. Think of them as the engines. They create the energy of a cell. They're what makes cells healthy. It's mitochondria that are unhealthy, causes disease, and it's not just any red light. It's not just any red light. There's this particular frequency and intensity. When you shine it on your body, it literally power, it powers up your body. So it's healthy, causes disease, and illness. And you may hear this if you're in the biohacking community about healthy mitochondria. So it's really interesting. You shine red light on any cell, which all cells are operated with or are fueled by mitochondria. And the mitochondria get powered up by this red, this red light. Now, is this because it's mimicking like what the sun does for us? Or is it totally different? It's the sun does emit a certain amount of this red light. But when you use red light therapy, it's concentrated. It's a, for lack of a better term, a hack. Now it's been widely studied. So, okay. So we worked with a company called Juve that makes the kind of red lights that are done in these studies. And when we first started working with them, it all sounded like mumbo jumbo. It sounded like baloney. Like this is, this can't be real. I did some research. These studies go way back to the 70s. They've been around for a long time. We were studying the stuff for decades. So it's not like brand new stuff. What's new is that you have like this for your house. Back then you couldn't. It was impossible. But anyhow, incredible. It's very safe. So it's been tested for safety and it powers up the mitochondria. And so I brought up this article that from WebMD. So it's a WebMD article that reviews all the studies and essentially, and WebMD is a very conservative site, right? So they're only going to post things where studies are like, oh yeah, this definitely does something. They're not going to do stuff like that. Oh, it's speculated. Controversial. Yes. It's all, so check this out. It improved dementia. One study, people with dementia who got regular near infrared light therapy on their heads or through their noses. Okay, it sounds crazy. For 12 weeks had better memories, slept better and were angry less often. So the red light can penetrate parts of the body, get to certain cells, fuel them. And this seems to be what happened in the brain. Another one, dental pain. People with dental pain or who have TMD, right? That's what TMD is. I thought it was TMJ. No, TMD is a tempo, temporal mandibular dysfunction syndrome. So like clicking jaw tenderness, they saw improvement. Hair loss, we know about this already, right? Hair loss. Why are you gesture to me, asshole? You see, it's visible. Hey bald guy over there. More red light. For 24 weeks, there was significant hair regrowth in people. Osteoarthritis reduced arthritis pain by more than 50% in one study, which is huge. Tendonitis reduced inflammation and pain in people with Achilles tendonitis. And then wrinkles and acne scars, burns and stuff like that. Tremendous improvement. It's so interesting. It just seems like any cell in your body, like you could sort of power up and boost efficiency. You know, because I mean you shine on your balls, you produce more testosterone. That's true. It's like you just pick certain areas and sections that you want to hyper focus on. It's like, hasn't it been weird? Now what I would be really interested to see is some sort of a study that compared like two groups of people, like a group of people that were completely deprived of sunshine consistently for like, you know, weeks or maybe months and they supplemented with the red light or somebody who got, you know, ample amount of sunlight every single day and then also using conjunction. Would we see a discrepancy between the two? Yeah. So there was a study, I don't have it in front of me, but there was a study that compared full spectrum UV. So like what you get from the sun to just red light and the red light was superior for the things that I listed because it's concentrated. Now that doesn't supply, it doesn't replace the sun obviously sunlight has got its own benefits. We need it. But you know what's weird about this is it makes me feel like we're plants. You know what I mean? I know. You know, like sunlight does certain things to plants. Yeah. Cells, I mean, it's not that far-fetched. It's weird. It's like the mitochondria feed on this red light and then become more active and healthier. So think about any cell in your body. If the mitochondria is healthier and more energized, whatever that cell does, it then starts to do it better. So if it's a skin cell, skin is going to be, you know, replenishing faster. If it's for muscle, muscle is going to heal faster. If it has to do with testosterone production, like the light cells. Any studies for gut health and just like shining it there? That's a good question. I don't know if it could penetrate that deep. Yeah. Because I know it goes pretty deep, but that would be pretty. That'd be pretty deep. I mean, I feel better right after I do it. So very similar to the same feeling I get if I go get sunshine for, you know, 30 minutes to an hour. Like it, I just feel better after I do it. So I wonder if it's that similar in that way. Yeah. And I imagine if you did that study that of course you would see, you know, they probably both would improve. I really want to know how big of a difference this is. My theory is that if you are deprived of the sun, I think this becomes crucial. Oh, I see what you're saying. So I think, I mean, we could probably it sounds like what you're alluding to is that they both show improvement regardless of you got sun or not. But I would think that somebody who is deprived of sunlight. Like if you work in an office all the time and you're not getting any sunlight really much at all. That makes sense. I would think that you would get a dramatic improvement. Or like if you live in a place where there's not much sun at all. Right. Like because you see a lot of symptoms of that like depression and anxieties higher in those places. Right, right. I wonder if red light therapy. Yeah, they usually supplement heavy with vitamin D. Dude, back in the day though, I mean, not that long ago, if you wanted like the real clinical red light therapy panels, they're like 20 grand. You like you couldn't buy it. It was pretty, pretty much you weren't going to buy it for your house. But now obviously they have companies like you that provide them. Don't try painting lights at your house red either. No. It's not going to work out. And there's a particular frequency and type. So you have to really be careful. There's medical grade and there's all the other stuff that really doesn't do. I mean they sell combs and hats and stuff and it's just not going to. You knew it was getting, you know, I knew it was going mainstream when you start to see it on shows now. There's been a handful of shows now that I've seen that have. So many professional teams are incorporating it now because it's just so much benefit to the recovery process in general. So it's crazy. Oh, speaking of studies, this is really cool. So this goes, this is right into that bucket of be science based, but not science bound. Okay. So what did the study? That's a sure way to happen. I know. I mean, we'll credit it. Sorry, Max. Look at me. We're taking your phone. It's too good. Are you going to share the one about that you tagged Lainan because I want you to talk about that. No, no. I'll bring that up in a second. But I have to look a little deeper actually into that before I have my strong opinion. So I'm actually asking Lain's opinion on it. It was a study on artificial metabolic effects, but stay tuned. And Lain's very good. He's very objective. So I'm going to wait. I'm waiting for his reply. But no, I'm talking about. So let me ask you guys this, right? 10 years ago, 15 years ago, what was the consensus on low to moderate alcohol consumption? Like drinking a glass of red wine every day. What did they say? They were promoting it. It was good for you. Especially wine. Yeah. It was very true. It's like not even a condensed version of resverstral. No. So what it was was studies showed that people who consumed low to moderate amounts of alcohol, like a glass of wine every night, lived longer than people who didn't. And so then what they did is they tried to figure out why. Well, what is it in the alcohol? It's got to be this social component. It must be the social component. Or maybe it's the resverstral. Or maybe it's the antioxidants. What's going on? So this is the beauty of studies is that sometimes they'll give you a result and you don't realize that. Yes. Just like when they showed that coffee caused cancer and it's because coffee drinkers back in the days all smoke cigarettes. So what they, so we have better studies now with better controls, really good controls. Now they're coming out and conclusively showing that any alcohol consumption is bad for you. Like any amount is bad for you. Even a little bit increases your risk of heart disease, cancer. We knew it. Right. So and we knew this is common sense, right? But now the social component I get there's a quality and I'll drink alcohol sometimes. So I'm not being a zealot here. I'm just saying that the studies now are pretty clearly show that any alcohol is bad for you. So why then did those old studies show that a little bit of alcohol made people longer? Well, they figured it out. Was it what you just alluded to? No, but they figured it out. You know what it was? What? Alcohol. People who drink alcohol when they got really sick like cancer or heart disease, stop drinking alcohol. Then they died and they were put in the category of people that didn't know people when they drinkers when they're getting really sick tend to stop drinking. It's like, oh, I got cancer. I got heart disease. So now those people that die get put in the category of non-drinkers and it's skewed the data so that it look like alcohol consumers, people who consumed a little bit of alcohol live longer. That's what it was. I'm so stupid. I know. I'm so stupid. But you wouldn't think about that, right? If you don't control for that stuff, how can you you wouldn't? Yeah, like the whole day everybody thought that everybody only lived a certain, like, lived a lot younger. They died, they died a younger age, but it was really just because of all the babies that died. Yeah, so when you look at life expectancy in the past, people only lived until they were 50. There were lots of people that were 70, 80 years old. Yeah. But the life expectancy is low because so many children die, you know, before a certain age, which skews the data. Is that true? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. So like if you made it to like, you were very likely. You weren't likely to keep going. Yeah. But making it to like through childhood, with all the childhood diseases and stuff was really hard. Yeah. They made it sound like like 40 was like the, like today's 90. Oh, that's wild. But it's not the case. No. I'm sure that you didn't bring that study up on a Z-Biotic commercial data. With alcohol? Yeah. Fuck you guys. Actually, we do have it. Do we really? Oh my God. Well, hold on a second. Hold on a second. Where to go salad? Well, hold on a second. We've never done it. That's not funny. Alcohol or cannabis, which you got, you know, we all use as a way to become healthy. No, no. It's about quality of life. No, no. Listen, I know we keep it real here. We keep it real. 100%. I was just keeping it real that that would be a terrible day to do that. I mean, shit without, with alcohol, I would hate that. Chronically. Yeah. I know. I know. You're going to hear a commercial. I mean, the truth is that there's, I mean, there's millions of people listening and there's for sure of that. There's a percentage of people that don't give a fuck what we're saying. They're going to have some alcohol to do it. Come on, dude. I'm the occasional guy. Come on. There's quality of life too. You can't live. You have to enjoy certain things and alcohol can do that. And they're part of most religions in Christianity. I think there's plenty of things that we all choose to do when we know it's not the healthiest or best thing for us. I just don't think. I think it depends, right? It's going to be the best at this moment. Like if I'm hanging out with my friends and I haven't seen you guys in a while and we're loose and we're hanging out. It's a good thing to have a glass of wine or hang out or whatever. This has nothing to do with me. I just wanted to shoehorn in some Antarctica facts. Okay. I've been holding on to these for a while. I'm just like, you guys, this is like mind-blowing. You're just randomly researching Antarctica. I mean, yeah, because who's really paying attention? No way. Nobody. There's like scientists that are down there. Those are people. Yeah. There's like 2,000 people there at any given time, just, you know, either military or scientists. And I guess NASA, this is like 2019. It was not super recent, but they had found a cavern underneath the ice sheet that's like as big as Manhattan. What? Yeah. So like it literally could be thriving with life. You could grow plants and everything underneath the ice sheets because it's warm. What? It's temperate. It's like 70 something degrees because there's so many volcanoes. There's 90 something volcanoes, 91 volcanoes on this continent, right? Underneath all this ice. There's some of them that are active outside of it. Did they say how deep it was that they had to get to this? Yeah. They said, I don't know, like to whatever like metric system. Isn't that where they found Kilometers or whatever the fuck? Isn't that where they found Alien and Predator and the Alien versus Predator? No. No? That wasn't where that was. I remember that movie. Yeah. They go down the cavern, right? People make fun of Americans because they measure anything. But that's not metric. English article, I don't know. He's like, it's two city buses down. Exactly. Like make it relatable. It's a football field and a tennis court. Yes. That's how deep it is. Yeah. That's wild. So it's just underground. So it's under the ice and it's temperate. Yeah. I'm like, I want to go there. I want to check this out. What are they going to find? They're finding like caverns in certain pockets on the continent now that they're kind of exploring. But yeah. This is, again, this does tie into like funny random conspiracy theories with like the whole base, like with the Nazis. Yeah. Wasn't that a conspiracy? Operation high jump and all this, right? You never heard that? They're battling each other. There was this conspiracy theory that the Nazis had an underground Antarctica base after they lost. They went there and they're apparently infiltrating world governments or something like that, right? Yeah. I mean, there's been some crazy people that have seen UFOs like going into these caverns and like Google Earth has pictures of like holes, like random holes that they speculate that like spaceships can get in there or whatever. But yeah, it's great. But all that aside, this is what actually is there. Did you ever watch, I don't know why I thought of this. Was it Return to the Plan of the Apes? So this Plan of the Apes, the original one. Did you guys ever watch the original one? Little bits of it. Oh, yeah. Oh, Charlton Heston? Yeah, of course you did. Okay. One of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time. All your kids don't even understand. One of the best movies of all time. At the end, you're just like, what? But then the sequels were crappy. And one of them was he finds this like race of humans that are like worshiping like nukes. Remember that? Oh, yeah. With like bald underground that's what made me think of. Oh, yeah. So they go underground. I like the Wahlberg ones. I thought those were good. No, they suck. Really? Yeah, terrible. I like those. Compared to the original one, no way, dude. I like your guy that you have the man crush on. What? Which one? He's got a bunch of man crush. Yeah. I never know his name. He's the one that's in like all those movies with like Seth, whatever. Oh. Franco? Franco. Thank you. What was he in? Oh, he was in the Planet Apes. The reboot. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. Wahlberg was in the first one, right? Wahlberg was in the in-between one. Yeah, in the between one. And then he's the next one, right? Yeah. Bro, the original, the original Planet Apes blew people's minds. And, you know, here's a spoiler alert if you haven't seen it. There are astronauts that go to space, they come back down to Earth and they discover that actually, sorry, I ruined it. They go on a planet and it's inhabited by these intelligent apes that are right on the horseback. And they enslave the humans. And they take them and then they enslave them and all those humans on this planet, but none of them speak and they're all mute and they're weird. But then he discovers that he actually went out into space, was in hypersleep or whatever, came back down to Earth thousands of years later. That was Earth and humans had destroyed themselves. What a great ending. Is the remake of that? Yeah. No, I thought Wahlberg, oh, right. Yeah, it was the same thing. It was a pure remake. He crashes, he wakes up and that's exactly what it is. It's Earth and he doesn't realize it. It was like a, yeah, a different concept. Yeah, not the same thing. Dude, did I tell you Justin about Adam's bitterness when we were on our trip? What? My bitterness? In Arizona? What was that about Grumpy? What was that about? He's so bitter about the fact that I could falsely believe it. Oh, yeah. He's so mad about that. I openly admit that. Hey, we get on the plane. First off, like Adam now is like super bougie. He's like, I'm not flying anywhere unless it's, you know, at the front with the big seat or whatever. I'm doing his voice. You guys get smashed by some big guy or something? I just have to do his voice. I'm not going anywhere unless he tells our assistant. Can't even get like any drinks. Yeah. Apparently on the way back there was nothing available so we had to fly southwest so we're like, you know, doing this thing. And you know me, I'll put my head back. You still sleep. Some stranger, just fucking. Sal's the biggest man spreader. Did you notice that? By the way, his legs are always like smashing. On the biggest, right? And you see me like this. And you wonder why I'm all bitter. And he's over there like this. Like quarter. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he just, yeah, he's got a superpower. You know, it reminds me of, it reminds me of like, you know, when you're, when you're go to sleep and you snore and your wife wakes you up cause she's pissed off. Well, now we're both not sleeping. Like cause you're just mad that I'm sleeping. That's Adam. I can feel him looking at me like, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's it's it's like you dreaming right now. Yeah. I don't think the audience can do this. Like it is. We don't even, we're not even off the tarmac before this guy is out. I mean, they weren't even done seating. So Sal and I sat down first course. He sits inside. I sit outside. So there's a seat in the middle. So maybe we'll get lucky and the whole plane starts to fill up. Have you ever checked Sal for wires? Yeah. He might be an android. He's out. I just thought about that. The other guy, the other guy comes to sit down between us and for the like the end of the people, like the last bit of line of people are sitting down and Sal was already out. Or we're even coming close to you. You know what's weird about this? That's amazing. Can I tell you what I thought I developed this? When I was a kid, obviously I come from, I have a big family, right? So there's four kids and we, and my, my dad owned a crappy, well, my parents had a crappy minivan and I would always sit in the back and we'd go on road trips. We didn't have a lot of money. So it was like we flew places. We drive everywhere. So it's like five hour drive. And I'd get car sick always. You guys know that. And you won't get this. I literally trained myself in, in vehicles to fall asleep. So now anytime I'm in something with an engine, for some reason, it like lulls me to sleep. That's funny. Mine was never beneficial. I just would fall asleep in lectures all the time. You're just bored. You're just bored. You know, the other thing that's so annoying about that is that the driving thing, he has to be in the front seat. Otherwise, if we're going, if we're somewhere where we've never been before, that's your fucking job. It's the shotgun. I'm in the front of this. Help with navigation. Yeah. This turns coming up. I want to know this information. You guys are dicks. While you're talking, I see Doug shaking his head like, Sal, we all hate it. Because we've all at one point, but in a situation where we're like relying on you to do that, it's like, oh, don't worry. I'll drive and look it up on the phone at the same time. At least 20 exits. Yeah. You know, when we sat around over it, when we went to the NCI event, this is the type of stuff that we started sharing with people. Oh, nice. Yeah. You could just tell that they'd love hearing all the behind-the-scenes stuff with, like, Doug's fucking crazy and, like, you know, snapped on Sal and snapped to the airport and stuff like that. And it was like, really, Doug? Oh, that Florida trip was stressful when he lost it. We told that story, we told the story where he thought he lost the laptop. He brings his, he finally comes up, they're about to close the door and you got to fit your carry on in that little box. You know, Doug's all, like, sweating. Like, he barely made it. Can you put your carry on in there? And Doug tries to put it in. It doesn't fit. She's like, I'm sorry, sir. It doesn't fit. He's like, fuck it! We're like, we're all, get on the plane. Just go, just go on the plane. Let him pass. It was a good time. It was a good time. No, it's only funny because you're the nicest guy. Well, that, and that's what I think about. The Sal and I said that, right? The reason why it's so long. No, no, no. Adam's mad 90% size. So it's, it's not a funny story. Exactly. If I tell someone like, oh yeah, I've seen him get mad like that yesterday. I'm just, I'm passionate. I'm passionate about everything. Stop calling me moody. I think some of them on my period all the time. I don't know. Maybe. Passionate. Hey, so, so I want to tell you guys about some cool, some more cool studies. They did a, they're using VR therapy. I don't know if you know that. They're testing VR therapy on people with claustrophobia and people with agoraphobia. Do you guys know that? They're testing that like they're like torturing people. So do you know what agoraphobia is? Is that blood, right? No. No, it's just like a fear of being around people. Like fear of open spaces. Or open spaces. So you'll get people are so afraid. What's blood one? What's blood? Fear of blood. Oh, dog. You almost always know that. I don't know that one. I have no idea. It sounds like it would what it was. Goryphobia? That's what you have. We don't like scary movies. Andrew, you got it over there? Hemophobia. Oh, hemophobia. Yes. Hemophobia. Like hemoglobin. Is that what it is? Well, that's crazy with, oh man, claustrophobia. I, you know, so I've been in a couple situations where I was caving. You have a little bit of that. Well, yeah. Cause like once I got a certain size, it was like, I can't fit through all these things and, you know, do stuff as like I used to be as a kid. I was adventurous and would explore and we went in this cave and there was one way through and it was like, it was a tight hole and I had to just like get the shoulders through. Did you start panicking? Yeah. Yeah. I started sweating and then was like, I can't, I can't, I can't do it. I'm sorry, hyperventilating and then somebody with me was like trying to calm me down because I couldn't, I couldn't like push, I didn't know where they go forward or back. I was like stuck. I feel like I have a little bit of it too. Right now. When you got bigger, you get bigger and feel like there's places that you're not supposed to go anymore. There's just some places you don't do. You don't go there because I don't get stuck. It's a normal, it's a normal fear, I think. It's when it gets It's also why I don't want to be buried. I'd rather be cremated. You're gonna be dead. It doesn't matter. I still have this, just the thought of being in a coffin, you know, I'm like, No, I know what we're gonna do with you. What do you mean? I thought you wanted to be paraded around like the rapper that person. I'm gonna be like, God damn it. Yeah, yeah. For a weekend, I want you guys to throw the fattest party and then light me on fire. Wow. I'm serious. That's it. Just a rager, like a two-day rager somewhere. I want to put you on a boat and then shoot a fire arrow on you. Burn me up wherever you want. I don't care. But just party, celebrate life. We'll give everybody a candle so everybody could just walk up and light them a little bit. Make a fucking carnival game out of it. I don't care. Throw me out there and I'll say it and then Right. Write a message to Adam on his chest before we light him on fire. Right. For some reason, that doesn't make my skin crawl the same way thinking about being buried. No, well, so one time I did experience a little bit of it. I was in an elevator. This is a true story. I went in an elevator with my big ass Italian family who never does anything by themselves. They always have to go in the same elevator together, the same everything. We went on elevator and literally packed ourselves in there and nobody wants to wait for the next one. So we're packed, the doors close and then the thing goes and then it slowly starts to go down and we have to wait. We call them and we're like, hey, the elevator's not working. They're like, you have to wait until it gets to the bottom. We were on the 13th floor. It took like 20 minutes to slowly go down and we're just stuck in there and my grandma started freaking out a little bit and I'm trying to tell jokes that everybody started. It was it was stuck on the elevator like that at the circus circus. She lost her shit. It was like on the 50th floor on the way down. It was like on the 4th of July weekend and stopped at every floor. I wonder if she knows if she's listening, if she knows it's her. She has to. Of course she has to. I haven't dated that many bipolar chicks. Which one? I don't know. Your karma's stolen twice. It's not like I'm just saying that she like literally was. I remember like we were months into dating and I found that out. I was like, oh my God, I did not know this. I'm like, well, I'm going to ride the good part. What medication do you use? Oh, I just smoke weed instead. Oh, I don't think that's working. I'm going to ride the fun part when it gets to the bad part that we're going to break up. Yeah. Well, what they're doing with the VR is they're because people are so afraid to venture outside. Mm hmm. They're more likely to desensitize themselves with the VR goggles. So they'll put them on and then they'll explore outside in the goggles slowly desensitizing themselves. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So then they'll be able to take the step outside. No, we're joking. Exposure therapy. Yeah, right? Yes. Oh, that's interesting. I wonder how successful that would be. You would think that if you're in that, because those things feel so real, right? You would think that would freak them out. They do, but exposure therapy is actually quite effective. So people have all kinds of fears, arachnophobia or whatever. They'll slowly expose you. Good spiders all over you. Hey, keep in mind, though, this is also how I told you they're going to sell this to us too, right? I said that already. They're going to start, we're going to see positive stuff come out about virtual reality and being plugged in. And I just think that you're, we're all being groomed to move in that direction. You might be right. I do. And then, and you're already proving what I said is that you're going to start seeing these, I mean, I wait until they do depression. Yeah. Wait until you get somebody who is, who's socially depressed and locked up in their house and it gets social anxiety and then they get into the virtual world and it improves their life. And then you have studies to support these groups of people that it's made out of. You know what? I can see what you're saying. I don't know if the studies will show that it will improve because it's more complex than that, but I agree. It's like, it's like if you made a list. You and I both know that's how I mean studies will prove whatever they want it to prove. That's true. It'll be like real world versus VR, like real world. There's killers out there, viruses, dangers inside the VR. It's totally safe. Hey, watch. Yeah. I totally believe that's coming. Speaking of, of claustrophobia and stuff. Are you guys seeing the news that's leaking out of Shanghai? No, no. I've seen some videos of people panicking and like not being able to have food and we're just breaking stuff. Okay. So the policy in China with COVID is zero COVID policy and because they're communists and they have total control. They can literally and they do lock people in their homes and they did this for the whole city. So crazy. Of Shanghai, which good luck trying to still control the virus is still spreading. But nonetheless, people are starving to death. There was a video at night when someone was recording and all you hear, it doesn't even work. Well, all you hear people screaming outside the window like, because they're like, didn't a thing just come out that they did? Were they compared all the states in the United States on who handled COVID the best and didn't Florida come out on top? Well, what they do is when you do all the controls, the studies came out showing that the strictest mask mandates and lockdowns really had almost insignificant impact. And if you count depression, economic activities, worst economic impacts. Yeah, they're basically saying that wasn't a good, it wasn't a good strategy. The part that I find ironic most about that is I also believe that Florida has the oldest population too. They have to control that. So when you, oh, they control that. Okay. So that's not a fact. No, they do control that. But then, but with, that would be crazy. Well, here's the way I look at it. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stuff, but for me, the ultimate proof is where are people moving to and where are people leaving? Yeah. And the places that were the most strict have lost residents and the places that were less strict have gained residents. That's all the evidence that I need, because I don't think regardless of how they try and spin it, you see which places are thriving and which aren't. Yeah. And which has the most homeless and, you know, which are actually like booming places to live. Dude, there's a refrigerator on their balcony with the refrigerator opening open. So people could take pictures and see like we're starving. Cats and dogs are being caught on the street. Killed. Some people think they're being fed. They're taking people's kids too. Kids, if your child was COVID positive, they would forcibly separate your child, bring your child to state. It's disgusting, man. It's crazy. This should make everybody's skin crawl. Yeah. I think that there's there may be some riots over there. It's really wild. Yeah. People would even blame them. It's crazy that some people even advocated for that here. There were some people who were like, just lock people up and lock them inside and we'll get through this. I think you guys didn't bring up that about people would give up their fear for safety. That was there. Was there a study on that? Lots of studies on that. Yeah. That show that people the false promise of safety, people will lovely. They'll give up all kinds of shit. Yeah. Just for the promise, not the actual. And I think that's that was the promise. This is how we're going to slow the curve down by doing this. And that was enough for a percentage of people. I mean, you still see it right now. I mean, we live, we're one of the last states to, you know, lift everything, but I still go places where it's not even mandatory anymore. And you still got people. I feel bad. People got really scared and I feel bad for them. And I was talking to Arthur Brooks about this and he goes, you know, he goes, it's probably not cool to make fun of that. He goes because a lot of people got traumatized because my daughter goes to school in sixth grade. Most of the kids still want to wear a mask. Now part of it, I think is at that age for two years, they wore masks. So now they feel self conscious taking it off. Awkward stage. Yeah. So it's, it's, there's stuff we haven't even seen. You know, it's so maybe I don't know if you thought about this because you were like me. Not as back. I think I was worse when I was younger at her age. Right. So I had really crooked teeth and I was very insecure about it. And if the mass thing was like a thing, that's what I'm saying. Like, and it was already something we're doing. Like, I wonder, like even myself, like if I would have been a kid I would have done it. And part of me thinks that I might have. I was so insecure about my teeth when I was a kid like that. You're hiding. That I was, I already did it when I like smiled. You know, I smile or the crooked smile or didn't show my teeth. And so if I had this mass that could cover it up all the time, it would make me feel probably more secure and confident. When you see a kid, okay, what is the stereotype? Which is bad by the way. They're anxious or depressed. What do they do? They have their hair in front of their face. Or they were a hoodie. They don't want to, or they look down because they don't want to be hat real low. Okay, so I feel like that feedback can go backwards too. As you cover yourself and you see less people's faces, you're probably sending a signal to yourself that says, and look, and anxiety, I isolate myself. Anxiety, sadness, depression is exploded among kids. So, and I'm sure that's one factor. There's lots of factors because it's been a tough couple of years. We haven't paid the price yet. I mean, it made sense after you said that because then I would, I also see it sometimes where I see like a family walking together and then I see like the kid just wearing a mask and not the parents. Because they're more comfortable with it all. That's fucking weird. Do you know what I'm talking about this? Because in gymnastics there was a few kids that were still wearing them and the parents we talked to and they were all about like the mask being lifted, but they couldn't convince their kid to take it off. They just, they want to keep it on there. Two years for a kid is a long time. Think about that. It's like a third of their life when they're around. Yeah, dude. It's like for us, it'd be like, you know, 10 years. You get used to it. Like this is the way it is. It's weird to take it off. So I don't know. I mean, we had a little mass burning party at my house. Did you really? Yeah. You did not? You certainly did. You so did. Yeah. Because my kids were a little on the other end of that spectrum. We're like fighting at the whole time and we're getting trouble and I'd have to talk to the teacher and then this is like, yeah. And so like, they brought, they brought me then we made a little pile. I just set on fire. I mean, so how do you handle it as a dad? There's got to be a part of you that you're like, you got to go through the whole jump through the hoops with the teacher and be like, I'm sorry, talk to the kids potentially, but then you're also like, listen, kids, it's cool. I understand. Yeah, well, I know how do you do that? It's one of those things. It's a delicate dance because it's something that, you know, everybody has their own belief system and it was one of those things. It's like, I don't think this is right. And so I, you know, to be cool and to, if it's something that's like standardized and like every kid has to do this in order to show up to school, like we'll, we'll follow the rules, but like, if there's opportunities from to take it off at recess and you're outside and all that, take it off, you know, or like, I really don't, it didn't bother me that they were pushing back because I feel like a lot of this needed to be pushed back because people were leading with fear. Yeah. Leading with fear is a bad place to be. Kids don't use them properly. They don't use a proper medical protocol. Nobody was using N95. It's actually, it's a big show. If that was the case in N95, then you have a new argument for me because I just go by data and like, what actually works. And the medical protocol, you know what the training works like? You know what the training looks like when you're trying to tell you that they have to go through an extensive training. It's not like you reuse the same one or kids scratch their face or touch it all the time and they're touching other things. It's like they're actually increasing, maybe even increasing or negating whatever safety they're getting from it. It's all a show. Yeah. When we were getting on the plane, I thought we were going to see a situation because I told Adam, I said, I'll get kicked off this plane right now. His parents had this little boy two little kids, like I know, and the kid is like squirming. He's like Max's age. He's probably like two and a half. I'm like, if they make them leave the plane, I'm going to throw a strike. I'm going to get everybody on the plane to jump. Early in, they would have probably. Oh, yeah. Early. That's why the fact that she even said something like already, like where we're at now, that, oh my God, this is, I hope this doesn't go. He's like, he's like two years old. What are you going to do? Yeah. There's no leg to stand on with that for me. Anyway, I'm going to take a left here and I'm going to talk about it. It's left for the audience. If you're watching, it's still a right. To them, it's their left. A la derecha, a la izquierda. Yeah. So, hold on. I got to do this right here. Oh yeah. That's right. Left. Yeah. Let's talk about protein for a second. I got, I got some messages yesterday on Twitter. People asking me questions about protein, plant proteins versus animal proteins. And as single sources, animal proteins are superior, but plant proteins can be quite good proteins because of combinations of amino acid profiles can be complementary. Okay. So what does that mean? That means if I take whey protein, it's got a great amino acid profile by itself. If I take p protein, it's not a bad amino acid profile, but it's not as good as way. But if I combine p protein with, let's say, pumpkin seed protein or brown rice protein, you get the amino acids of the other proteins that complement. You get a more complete bioavailable source of protein. So if you use plant protein, try to use one that doesn't have a single source. Now p protein and soil protein have the best amino acid profiles, but you want ones with combinations. Can I just say something? I just, it, we're such splitting hairs with this bullshit. Yeah. I mean, really what matters is you hit your protein intake and get it there. And if, because here's what you see, the people that sell whey will use things to show that how much whey is superior than, than vegan protein powders. People that are promoting vegan protein powders talk about how if you use a blend of protein powders, it's as good, potentially superior than, especially if it's better for your gut health than whey protein is. At the end of the day, it's what, what protein powder you, you like. And if it doesn't negatively affect you and you're hitting your, you assimilate the best. Yeah. Yeah. If it doesn't fuck you up, right? Obviously if you, if taking whey fucks your stomach up, then go to go use a vegan protein powder. But if it doesn't, it's technically a little superior. There's a lot of truth to what Adam's saying in the sense that if your protein intake is high, it doesn't matter. It doesn't. If you hit your numbers, if you hit what you... If it's low, it matters. If it's high, then yeah. And even then, right? Like even then, if it's like low, like you're not talking about the difference of someone losing five pounds of muscle that week because you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's such a splitting hair difference that people get into these debates. It's one of the things that can't stand about our space. And it's, it's primarily driven by the people that are trying to sell one of the general population. Use the one that you like. Yeah. Use the one that you like. That's, that's for the most part, especially if you have a high protein diet, but nonetheless protein blends from plant protein. If you're one of those people that's paying attention, that's your best bet. Like Organifi, the company we work with, that's how their plant protein is. It's a combination of different sources that are complementary. Give you a better amount. Which is why we work with them. We work with them because they're, we think they're the one of the best, if not the best in the space for that. But again, I feel like, you take away because you enjoy it. If you like the vegan, then do it. You know? Yep. And where I see it, the best is like how, what you, how you talk about it. And I even noticed it myself, if I get a lot of dairy in my diet, I do notice that. Yeah. Digestibility's got to be a number. Yeah. I do, I do notice the way sometimes, but most time I use whey protein powder last night. Totally fine. But I also hadn't had a lot of dairy the last couple of days. Hey, check this out. 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You got to try this out, especially if you're a health conscious individual. So if you want to try it out, head over to mindpumppartners.com, click on Z Biotics, and then use the code mindpump22 for 10% off your first order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Alex from South Carolina. What's happening, Alex? How can we help you? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. So I've been listening to the podcast for quite some time and have taken much of your advice to heart. And so I'm a former college athlete, ex-crossfitter, and now jujitsu practitioner and habits lifter. I'd recently had a meniscus arthroscopy on my left knee, and I'm here for your advice. So I was slowly able to add back in some of my workload using mobility and slide work, and now I feel like I'm in a place where I was before my injury. So for my tendencies to over-train as a former athlete, I've also experienced many minor injuries in my upper body over the years. And with your advice, I really dialed the back and had been able to optimally recover between workouts. I really went from working out every day pretty heavy to now going three or four days a week. And a lot of those shoulder and back arm problems have gone away. So my question for you are three. Is there an upper body sled exercise? Like the sled was so instrumental in strengthening my knees, and now I do it every day. I feel like that's really bad. The main remedy in coming over my meniscus surgery, is there something I can do that for the upper body like a sled for the shoulders? Back stuff, like a drag. Yeah, you know, the reason why the sled is so, helps so much with recoveries because of the lack of the eccentric portion of the rep. So that's the lowering part of a repetition. So you can do certain things with like medicine balls and barbells that, where you don't really incorporate a lot of the eccentric. To be honest with you, I think isometrics would be one of your best things to do for the upper body. I mean, with the sled, you could squat down and pull it with a rope so you can work the back. You could get into a good base and press it with your upper body so you can get some upper body work. But I think isometrics might be better for some of your upper body stuff because of the lack of damage and then of course the benefits that it can definitely provide. Yeah, I agree. Like you can do chest passes with the medicine ball and get that concentric without the eccentric portion. But yeah, for the most part, be able to apply rotation as well to reinforce that stability and strength around the joint was going to help tremendously. So to take it through full range of motion but have that connection, that isometric control within each portion of those angles, you take the time to do that, go through what we have in a lot of our prime programs where we're doing wall circles, for instance, or wall press and really hyperconnect there. That's going to do you a lot of good. Alex, what's the main reason why you want to do sled stuff for the upper body? Well, I just feel like the sled is... it kind of does a lot of things. It's a little bit aerobic. It's also strength training but I feel like it's also just strengthening the joint itself. So it's preventative, I think, in a lot of ways because I don't go crazy heavy on it. And I do multi-planer. I go backwards, forwards. I do the carry-on. I heard you guys talking about like a sideways version of it and that's also been something that I like. Have you... I wonder if there's something like that for the shoulder. Well, so Halo's like with a dumbbell it's going to promote something similar to that in terms of like even... Okay, if you have access to a macebell and this is part of the, you know, that the appeal of that is like I can get into those types of positions where I have to be able to control and be able to have strength, to be able to pull it back in front of my chest. You're adding load in a sense that you're also strengthening the rotators with that which is something that is very similar to what you're experiencing with your legs and the sled. I really like the suspension trainer for this too. Especially since we're looking for stability in the shoulder and stuff, I just think that's a... And you can regress it or progress it in so many different ways. Do you have a suspension trainer? I don't have a suspension trainer, but I have a mace, so I can definitely get the mace incorporated at least. The suspension trainer like rings or what do you mean by that? Yeah, it's like TRX. Yeah, we sell it on our Mind Pump Store website. In fact, when you get the suspension trainer program, I think they send you a 50% off coupon for it too. So if you don't... I do have access to those actually at the gym. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. Then there you go. And we have a whole program that's around it with all kinds of exercises in it, but I would start incorporating some upper body stuff with that. I think that you'll see some good benefit from that too. Okay. I guess the other two questions I had, they're kind of related. But when I was strengthening my knees, I've been doing a lot of mobility as well. And I really tried to get as low as I can on my squats. And so I'm pretty consistent with the heavy squat at parallel. And I've heard you guys talk about it recently on a podcast about getting a full range of motion with as much strength and control as you have. And ultimately, I'd like to get ass to grass. But really, I question, is it better to try to get ass to grass every time with full range of motion that I can get? Or is it better to just accept the range of motion and go heavier some days and lighter some days? Like, how do you balance, like optimizing, increasing your mobility in those movements, but also improving your strength gains? Or do you focus on one or the other? Well, what happens when you break, when you do a squat right now, and if you say you go to parallel, just fine. But what happens when you break parallel? What do you see break down in your body? Do you roll your shoulders forward? I start to lean forward. You lean forward? Yeah. I think it's my ankles. I think that's ankle mobility. Oh, there you go. But I think, you know, so it's like I can get parallel pretty good. And then as minute I go a little too low, my back starts to arch and lean forward. And I'm like, I don't want to do this and injure myself. Well, consider this. Like, let's say you could squat 200 pounds, but go down to parallel. But you could only squat 150 pounds, but go three inches lower, both with good form. Okay. So all things being equal, right? Both good form. But the intensity is equal. In other words, the 150 pounds at three inches lower is the same intensity as the 200 pounds at parallel. Which one's going to give you better results? Well, the one with the greater range of motion. So the goal should be to train for greater ranges of motion. But of course you have to control them and have the stability and the mobility to do so. In other words, you're not trading results because you're working on a deeper range of motion or working on mobility to do so. If anything, you're actually, you're going to get better results that way. Also a way for you to test if for sure it's the ankles is if you do a, you know, heel elevated squat. So, you know, get your heels up on like a block or something. And if you can drop all the way astagrass, then it is your ankles and everything else. Yeah. That definitely helps before doing the ankle. Yeah. Ankle elevation. Yeah. And then I guess, oh, go ahead. No, I was just going to say then that, then then work on that. I mean, and you can do like a, like a lot of times when I'm like really trying to improve the depth, I'm lightweight. And then I'm going to do combat stretch before I start. I'm going to do a squat and kind of pay attention either with my camera or the mirror, see how deep I get. Then I'm going to go back to doing the combat stretch some more and then I go back to the squat, see if I can get a little bit more depth and control. And I just kind of go when the, when the goal is to increase the range of motion, I'm treating it that way, that we're doing mobility intermittently through the workout to see if I can get deeper and deeper through it. And versus just doing your mobility and then I'm just going to push the limits on my squats for the next five sets. Does that make sense? Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I do. Thank you. And then I guess the last part was, so with the knee, I kind of jumped back into a stepwise progression of weightlifting. And one thing I was kind of concerned with is deficits in one side or the other. And how is a good way to search for those discrepancies? I feel like when I'm squatting, I'm not sure if it's just in my head or if there's like an objective way to measure whether or not I was favoring the other knee and predisposing that to injury. And if you do have deficits, how do you recommend like looking at it and correcting for them? Easy unilateral exercises. We'll show you that pretty clearly. I'm going to do Alex. I'm going to send you our new program. I was going to say you've recommended two things from our new program. I'm going to send you our new program, map symmetry. I think it'll be perfect for everything that you're looking for. And it'll help balance out right to left. It's going to help with the upper body stability and control. It's basically going to give you everything you want. It's a brand new program. We just came out with it. So I don't know if you're familiar with it, but there's a phase of isometrics and there's two phases of unilateral training. At the end, you get to have fun and do some five by five type stuff. So I think you'll like it. Well, that's awesome guys. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for the podcast and letting me talk on it. So I appreciate it guys. No problem. Thanks for calling in. I was waiting for the symmetry recommendation there. It's pretty funny how many issues a map symmetry would target. I mean, all the stuff that he said was perfect. I mean, that's, I think, why we're so excited to release this program. But I think it's, I mean, unilateral training is so much. In fact, I just read a study where they were comparing muscle fiber recruitment pattern or muscle fiber recruitment with bilateral versus unilateral. Unilateral training activates more muscle fibers in the same muscles if it was worked bilaterally. Is that because of the stability component? Yeah, it has to be. No, I think it's just the force. You're focusing all your force on one limb. Oh, interesting. And, you know, obviously your whole body's tense. More directional. Yeah. And you see more of that. And bodybuilders have talked about that for a long time. It's got to be the stability component too though, right? I mean, you got to think if you're doing like a single arm shoulder press that there's a lot more, you don't have the counterbalance on the other side to help stabilize, right? Yeah. But I think they compare. You're a divert. I can't even talk. I'm done. I'm checked out. No, I think they compare two dumbbells to one dumbbell. So it's like bicep curl one arm, bicep curls both arms, even with dumbbells. Oh, interesting. The bicep with one arm will get, you'll see more muscle fiber recruitment. So it's very, very interesting. I think this is a big missing piece to a lot of people's programs. It sounds like he's already on the right track though. I think he's just like, you know, typical athlete looking for more to do. I mean, just by simply reducing the volume and everything, he said he started to notice pain and everything go away and working on the sled, done all these wonders for him. That's an interesting angle though, like trying to think it's something that beneficial for the upper body because it is so interesting what the sled provides that nothing else really does. And I really do think, and that's why I'm so vocal about the whole rotational thing because people just don't consider it. You can load it, you know, progressively and it's something that will have massive benefit and carryover and make you feel like you're, you're able to produce a lot more force in the shoulders. This is why I love the suspension trainer too though. I mean, the stability component, how the depth you can get. Crazy stretch, range of motion. When I do the push-ups with the suspension trainer, I feel like it just wakes my shoulders up completely because of the depth that I can get on it, the stability component of my body weight on it. I just, I love that. Well, the isometrics in the beginning of symmetry, we utilize some of those suspension trainers too. So he's going to get all that with this program. So I think he'll be happy. Sweet. Our next caller is Matthew from Georgia. What's up Matthew? How can we help you? Hey guys, what's up? What's going on? Hey. First of all, thank you guys for having me. You guys are great. I've loved listening to you guys for about the past year or so. So super excited to be here. So yeah, I'll start with kind of a little bit of background on me and my fitness and then go into the questions. So growing up, I was always kind of like a bigger kid and that was something I struggled with for a while around my high school, sophomore year of high school. I was weighing around 200 pounds and pretty unhappy about it, but didn't really do much around that time from like work and stuff. I kind of just started changing some little things and didn't realize it, but I'd started to lose some weight. So during Thanksgiving, like all my family was like, well, Matthew, you're looking really good. And I kind of started to like really like that. And so I started losing a lot of weight and kind of crash died. So from one 200, I dropped to somewhere in like 150 range. During that, I was doing kind of like a high intensity interval CrossFit training, but I was under eating, not sleeping well. So I didn't really see much results kind of stuck in that skinny fat, if you will. Eventually I did kind of find the light and started resistance training. I started on a basic push pull leg split and started eating a lot more, caring about everything. Went from around 160 to 170 in a couple of months. I stalled out, but I'd seen some good results and then comes in kind of my coach that I talked about in my question, who's one of the greatest people I've ever met. He's coaches me super selflessly and everything. And he got me into powerlifting, which I've really started to enjoy. So last November was my first competition. I put around around 10 pounds since that competition. Did like a 15 week cycle up to it. Hit the competition, went eight for nine, super fun. And then my off season came. I did around a nine week hypertrophy block. My coach, he's the one who introduced me to you guys. He kind of gave me a blend of anabolic and aesthetic to do during then. Now I'm in a 15 week cycle leading to my next meet. And then just for a little reference, I was squatting around 315, benching 185, deadlifting in the 350s. Now squatting in the low 400s, benching 225 and deadlifting in the upper fours, hopefully 500. So really good strength gains, but I haven't seen a lot of aesthetic gains that I would have liked. So after this meet, I was wanting to do some type of cut and lower my body fat percentage. For some of the excess fat, I guess you could say I put on this past year. I've really always kind of wanted to do this and feel good about myself because I never really was there to begin with. But my coach says it'd be super counterintuitive to do that I should continue to maintain or maybe bulk up and then drop down to my weight class. That kind of a cut this summer after my meet would have really hurt my strength gains going forward. I do, I would like to kind of compete in the collegiate nationals in a couple of years, but that's a little out. So would cutting this summer really hurt my strength or could I bounce back from it or kind of what would that look like? Can we look at your blood? Justin's being sarcastic because all the detail, all the detail you gave us, that was more than detail. Matthew, I like to be clear. No, that's good. Yeah, you're analytical. You like your coach, yeah? Yeah, he's awesome. Greg is one of the greatest coaches. Really? Yeah, so check this out. All I know about you is what you just said, you gave us a ton of information. That's all I know. Your coach knows you way better than any of us do. So you got to take your coach's advice. I think your coach knows what they're talking about more than I will with the limited information that I have on you. And plus he's a powerlifting coach. He or she's a powerlifting coach. I'm not a specific powerlifting coach. None of us are. So I would take their advice. I think they know what they're talking about. And based off of what you're saying, I think I'd probably agree with them. But again, they have the information and this is a good message for other people is that if you have someone you trust who's really good, who's working with you, I've done this with clients where they question a lot of what I do and they'll ask their friends or they'll ask other people to validate how they feel. They're asking mom or dad. And I tell you what, your coach knows you. They've been working with you for a while. So maybe they think a cut would be counterintuitive because of the psychological component. I don't know what your calories are at. Maybe your calories are too low still and they want to see the calories come up. Maybe they feel less comfortable with you cutting now and waiting till you get closer to the competition so you can come down to a weight class. Like you said. So I would go with your coach's advice. I think the dilemma here is that your coach probably knows what's best for you for you hitting potential PRs in your powerlifting meat. And I think you selfishly have some things that you would like to do with your body. And so, and he's probably right. If you have a short 12 to 15 week window until our next meet, you know, putting you in a caloric deficit, because here's the thing. When you go into a cut, it's inevitable you're going to lose some muscle too. You're going to lose a little bit of muscle. Definitely strength. Yeah, and strength. So, you know, he's probably right. If we want to have the best meat possible in the next 12 to 15 weeks, our goal wouldn't be to get shredded or lean right now or lose. Now, how important is hitting PRs and increasing your weight? Or would you rather, you know, look a little bit better and then also still try and do a meet? I mean, you could technically do a mini cut for a little bit to try and lose a little bit of body fat and then go after it. But it absolutely, your coach is right. It could potentially affect your numbers when you go to your meat. But then maybe you look better than you have it in previous meet. And maybe that's really what you want more than you care about increasing your bench or squad or deadlift. Yeah, I'm going to make a guess here though because you did a 50 pound crash diet with a bunch of crazy training, right? So I'm going to guess that you're probably, your metabolism probably needs a little bit more time to build up. So we don't even know how many calories you're eating. I'm at 3,000. I did track from, so my bad, I tracked from 160 to 180. Okay, so you're 180 at 3,000 right now? Where does your coach want you to go before cutting it down? Do you have a calorie goal? So right now, not necessarily. My next meet is in five weeks and the cut would be after that meet. But rather than cut, he would probably want me to go up to 190 pounds. Okay, I see. Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, and you want to do a two week cut, you said? Two to four. Yeah, nothing crazy because I know if I'm in it that long, it will really hurt. Well, okay, if you're going to do a two, let's just be real here. If you're going to do a two to four week cut in a way that's going to minimize strength loss, you're going to lose maybe three pounds of body fat. I mean, that's probably right around where you'll be. Now, you can lose a little more, but you're going to sacrifice a lot more strength and maybe some muscle. So what you're arguing over is three pounds of body fat. And maybe to Sal's point, your coach knows you even better than we do and maybe he knows your habits and knows that if he gives you the green light to cut that you're going to do more than what you're supposed to do. And so the reason why he's telling you that because he knows you better than us. So that's a possibility. I mean, the fact that this guy is the one who introduced you to us, probably he probably knows his shit. That's what I'm going to say. That's my impression. That's the key. Yeah, that's the key. Yeah, that's the key. Your coach called us, by the way, before you got on the phone. I wouldn't be surprised. Make sure you tell Matthew to do what I told him. Keep it straight and narrow. Yeah, so we'll pretend like we don't know. No, I think you should probably listen to your coach to be honest with you because you're looking at three pounds of body fat. I mean, if powerlifting is your big thing, right? Well, that's where I feel he's coming from. He's your powerlifting coach. Yeah. He's just looking at how to squeeze out and maximize the potential of your performance. You don't give a shit what your abs are like. Yeah, who gives a shit about your abs, bro? Yeah. I mean, why do you care so much right now? Yeah. Let's wait till afterwards. Yeah. All right. Yeah, that helps. I think it's like I want powerlifting, I think, but I also want to have it all. You want your kid to need it, too, bro. You're not alone. Most people are like that. Yeah, but I tell you what. Focus it in. Powerlifting is still a great way to build a good physique. It's not bodybuilding, but it's still damn good. Yeah. And through the process of building strength, it looks like you're already getting your metabolism at pretty well. So at some point, you're going to be able to cut from a nice, high caloric intake, and the fat loss is going to be a lot easier. But I'd give it some time right now. Have some fun with the powerlifting. That would be my advice. All right. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. No problem. I appreciate it. Totally not what he wanted to hear. If his coach is listening, we'll give you a free program. He's like, come on, aesthetic guys. Come on, guys. Well, I mean, I got nothing for you. Obviously it depends on the coach and the trainer, but I remember clients would do that to me. Oh, I want to cut all my carbs out, or I want to have a liquid diet. And I'd say, no, here's why. And they would go ask their friend for validation or something. Don't you remember? I want to run America. Don't you guys remember the famous clients that would bounce from trainer to trainer even? You know what I'm saying? They'd hire one trainer, and that trainer wouldn't give what they want. Then they'd go the next one, and they'd go the next one. I had a client that did that. And I said, no, you're going to get hurt if we train that way. No, and I like to train. No, no, it's going to hurt you. And then finally she, you know, she went and worked with the other trainer, and what happened? She got hurt. I mean, the truth is... I kind of felt good about it. The truth is he could... No, I felt bad. The truth is he could totally do this cut if he wanted to and get a little leaner and look a little better for him from his perspective. But there's definitely a risk that his numbers will go down. And of course, a powerlifting coach who is trying to get his numbers up and that's what he cares about most. It's a conflicting goal. Yeah. So he's like, I don't give a shit about it. I mean, realistically, he could go conservatively with the fat loss and lose like two or three pounds to minimize muscle, like strength loss. Sure. Or he could go to aggressive for four weeks, lose eight pounds, and he's going to see some muscle and strength loss. And that was my point because... He might get all excited about it. And it was your original point, but what I was adding to that was that he, you know, he knows... His coach knows him better than we know him. And maybe he knows just like we know our clients. If I give my client a green light, and I know they have a tendency to crash diet or do something crazy like that, I'm not going to give him the green light because I know he's going to push the limits and then he's going to end up losing strength. Yeah, that's it. Our next caller is Jessica from Oregon. Hey, Jessica. How can we help you? Hi, guys. I have been consistently working out for a good year now, five, six days a week. I eat what myself and others consider to be pretty healthy, love cooking, trying new recipes. But I'm basically looking for a way to make sure that my diet is balanced, getting the best nutrition I need, like making sure I got enough proteins, carbs and fats, but not actually counting it. Like I don't see me counting macros, weighing food, necessarily doing that every single day, really sustainable. So is there a way that I can, I don't know, eyeball it or just know that I'm getting all the protein to get the results that I want with my workouts? Okay. So you want signs that will tell you you're on the right track, basically? Yeah. Is that okay? So, well, first off, a high protein diet generally works for most people. Now, some people get digestive issues with that, but most people work well with that. So I would aim for about 0.6 to maybe a gram of protein per pound of body weight. Now, I know you don't want to track, but it's a good idea to track once, so you have an idea and then you can kind of stay in that general idea. So if you don't mind me asking, what's your body weight? I'm 53, like 115, and I'm 42. Okay. So like older, so like older where things are changing and I don't know, you know, like it's not like a, just a little bit harder. Yeah. No, I got you. Okay. So about 90 grams of protein is going to be plenty for someone like you. So if you have three meals, figure out what 30 grams of protein looks like for each meal. Okay. And then target that. Now, as far as like signs, well, your body fat percentage, your strength, your performance, how you feel energy wise, your digestion, like these are all signs that tell you you're kind of on the right track. If you start to feel digestive issues or your energy is off, you start to feel weird, strange cravings. Then you know maybe something's off. Like if your strength goes down, maybe you're eating too little, but those are the kind of things that you might want to monitor. Okay. While you're eating, but I mean, your body weight for your height is pretty good. Do you know if you're lean or like roughly where your body fat percentage is? I have no way to calculate that. Like I'm, I'm leaned. I know it like the word tone does not always like your guys. Sure. Favorite, but like I have good, like muscular definition. Yeah, that, but I'm working on improving lower body, like upper body is real easy for me to get results. So I'm been trying to lift heavier and switch my workouts a little bit. Not, you know, I've kind of been in that comfort zone for a while. So I'm trying to push a little heavier, lift legs a little heavier. And so I just want to make sure that I'm feeding my body enough. Jessica, have you ever tracked before? Have you ever tracked your calories or tracked your protein intake? No, it's just seems super overwhelming. Like it just, you know, and I listened to you guys and I listened to other people do it. And it just, yeah, it seems really like overwhelming to do it. My recommendation would be just for one month track your protein. Just, just so, and just so that when you eyeball your food, you have an idea of today is a good, because if you can't, if you have, if you've never tracked and you have no idea if you're hitting, if you like, you can't tell me the difference between a day where you get 30 grams of protein in a day, you get 150 grams of protein. If you can't tell me the difference between the two, you're going to have a real hard time intuitively eating and making sure you're hitting your protein intake on a regular basis. And that is probably going to be the most impactful thing for you. You're at a pretty good weight right now. I think you're, I have a client that's actually the exact same size as you are and she looks great. And this is actually the same conversation I'm always having with her is like, listen, if we're strength training and you're consistent with that and you're keeping your weight around that same. So long as you're hitting your protein, we're going to keep that tight look. You're going to have muscle and you're going to stay lean. But where you can get inconsistent is if you string four or five days in a row of you hitting 20, 30 grams of protein and just not getting enough protein to sustain the muscle on your body. And so that would, my recommendation would be don't overthink the counting. Don't get all crazy with the calories. Just, you know, track and measure protein for a month so you can get an idea of the foods that you regularly eat. Oh, that was a, that's about 30 or so grams. Oh, that's about 20 or so grams. And so then when you go to eyeball and you're going forward, you have a better understanding of what your problem is. How do you feel about your diet? Do you feel good? Do you have digestive issues? Do you have energy? Is your strength good? Like give us a tip. I feel like my diet is like really good. Like on days when I lift, like lift heavier or and like do like a really solid workout. I know I'm going to be really hungry all day. And that's true. So like I make sure to eat, to compensate for that. Like I'm not, I'll eat like a good egg scramble with, you know, toast or like a, you know, wrap and try and get a good balance of carbs to start the day. And then consider, continue to eat at least, you know, every two hours because I'm that hungry to do that. And it's a lot of, you know, fresh, fresh food so that I feel like it's, I'm not damaging my body. I don't really, I don't have digestive stuff. I mean, I don't do milk. So everything's like, just because that does upset, but I do, you know, like Greek yogurt, cheeses, almond milk, that kind of stuff. And I really try and balance it. Cause I don't want to get bored. You need a bunch of plain, like a broccoli rice type thing. Cause that's boring. What was the impetus to ask the question about your diet then? If you're feeling good, was it just cause you were just questioning or you're like, Yeah, I'm just, yeah, I just want to make sure since I'm now being able to be consistent, that I'm getting all the benefits from really being able to stick to my workout schedule. Now I want to make sure that I'm also committing and doing a really good job balancing the diet so that everything works how it's supposed to. I think I have the best piece of advice for you then. Okay. I want you to start to trust your, your body. Okay. Because it will, it will help you in the right direction. It sounds like you have a good grasp of, of how you feel and how to feed yourself. I'm just from talking to you. It sounds like you're doing pretty good. Trust your body because if you don't, what'll end up happening or what can happen. I've seen this many times is that someone's doing great, but because they don't trust their own body, they hop on this diet or they try this new thing and then they ignore the signals that their body tells them because well, this is what I'm supposed to do. Like I just told you to eat 90 grams of protein a day. Well, what if you aim for 90 grams of protein and you get constipated? You don't feel good. Okay. Like ignore that, right? Then listen to your body. Maybe less protein is, is what you need. Although I don't think so. I'm just using that as an example. Right. But trust your body. It's going to lead you in the right direction. Right. My one, my one concern is just that you're, you're, you're small already. And so you probably don't eat a ton of calories. And so when you have things that could say, you know, chips and dip or you have a drink on the Saturdays or you do things like that is you grossly under consumed protein in a, in a few days in a row. Like one day is not a big deal to have a low protein. In fact, we actually advocate for that. But if you consistently under eat protein all the time and but, but eat well, right? You see, you obviously you don't, you're not over consuming calories. So that's keeping your weight where it's at. So that's fine. But if you want to tighten up more or have a firmer look or a little bit more muscle to your body or more definition, then it could be simply just making sure that you're getting adequate protein. And Sal's point is still true. If I tell you to get, you know, bump your protein and then all of a sudden you have digestive issues. Well, then yeah, I think that advice is good. But my guess would be that you simply just making sure you hit your protein on a regular basis. I think you'll see a little bit of shift in your body composition alone. Yeah. Can I send you, can I send you a workout program? Are you following any math programs? No, not yet. I just listen to your ice podcast and follow all the things on social media and just love it to where like my family makes fun of me. That's all right. I'm going to send you maps and a ball. I think that'll be the, I'm always like my mind pump guy said this today and my husband's like, oh my gosh. That's great. Yeah. I'm going to give you, I'm going to send you maps and a ball like, okay. And I'm also going to send you the intuitive nutrition guy because I think that'll help you with your, with some of the questioning that you have with your, with your diet. So I'll send those two things out to you. Okay. Thanks guys. Thank you. I appreciate that. This was really great. It's helpful, positive stuff. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, Jessica. You know, it's funny as I had, I was thinking as she was talking about like how people don't, when they don't track, they guess and they don't know. Yeah. I'll have female clients more often than not, it was female where they would overestimate. Well, that's a lot of protein. Oh yeah. Like that's eight grams. You're having eight grams. And then guys will go the opposite direction. I had a one, I remember I had one dude and he was like, no, I'm eating. That's how many calories I'm eating. Well, let me see your chicken breast that you have, you know, for lunch. And he pulls it out and I'm like, bro, that's like 12 ounces. That's a massive chicken breast. It's not the six ounces because he never waits. We had no idea what it looked like. And so he was, without realizing it was eating too much. So you got to get a good idea. You can't eat intuitive. And I think people mistaken intuitive eating for, I'm going to naturally have this instinct. Your body can trick you. Yeah. Your mind can trick you, I should say. Yeah. It's a good time. So yeah, it's, you got to have a basis established first. So I think, Well, I think she even, I think she even gave us a little bit by, because she had breakfast, like she has a scramble or a wrap, right? Which, and with toast and stuff. Big difference. And you're talking about like she probably is, that's probably eight to 12 grams of protein and then the rest carbohydrates. And if you count that as a protein meal and you need 90 grams for your day and that's one of your three meals you have, you're not even close to being on target. You're having a pound of meat later on. You're probably under consuming. And then what she didn't say, but I kind of pulled it out is, you know, she likes the chips and dips and she drinks occasionally. So, and if she's keeping her calories to where she's not putting on a bunch of body fat, so she's managing that, that means when she drinks or she has those chips and dips, something is, she's not getting something else. And my guess is that it's probably not protein. And if she's consistently doing that, she's probably having a hard time building any more muscle. I've never heard anybody describe like, like I'm really into dips. Like that's why we were speculating when she into like chewing tobacco. It's a new one for us. No calories in that. No, it's like you go to Starbucks and you see their, Starbucks will have like foods. High protein meal. High protein meal. And it has like, it's got like five almonds and like a piece of cheese. Yeah. That's right. That was through. What is high protein? I don't know. No, people really don't know, but you know, it's like, okay, look, you can't ride a bike intuitively until you learn how to ride a bike first, right? You can't eat intuitively until you learn what's in food, how it affects you, what you need to eat, what's in this, what's in that. So you can't go in intuitively. Intuitive is not instinct. And we don't have that instinct. We have to learn it first. Then you can move into more intuitive eating. Our next caller is Renzo from the Netherlands. Renzo, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, man. I'm actually wondering, send an email as well. Like I'm practicing calisthenics quite a lot. And I'm noticing that my pulling movements, they keep progressing and improve, sorry, my pushing movements keep progressing and improving weekly, but my pulling movements are lacking behind. So I was wondering if you'd help me out with that. Sure. And you said this is all calisthenics or do you use weights and machines too? No, I just do calisthenics. I do use resistance bands to make it easier or tougher depending on the exercise, of course. Okay. Is your body weights thing the same or are you gaining weight? I'm actually slowly losing weight. That's been staying the same pretty much the last few weeks though. But I made a new meal plan for myself because I kind of want to get a bit more reps for summer, of course. So slowly going a bit down again. Okay. And then last question is the volume the same for your pushing movements versus your pulling movements? Like same sets and reps and stuff? Same sets, definitely. Reps aren't really the same. I tend to do a bit more pushing reps rather than pulling reps. I use super sets and workouts. I do put the pulling movements first and then follow up with the pushing movements to make sure that I energize for the pulling movements. But especially with push-ups, variations, I tend to do more reps than pull variations. How many bodyweight pull-ups can you do right now? Bodyweight pull-ups. I'm currently using resistance bands to be easier, but I think around five or six bodyweight pull-ups. Okay, good. You know, I mean, if you want to balance this out a little bit more, I would do a little less volume for the pushing. And keep the pulling volume the same and see if that translates more to to strengthen the pulling movements. The other thing too is that strength gains aren't always equal around the whole body. The fact that you're getting stronger generally is a good thing. So that tells me you're moving in the right direction. If you're seeing some progress with the pulling movement, I wouldn't worry too much. Now, if you notice like pulling movements are like plateaued forever and your pushing movements are going up, well, then we would probably want to do a kind of a rehaul of your workout programming, but you usually don't see this kind of linear progression or everything all at the same time. You'll see it on some stuff and on other things, you'll see kind of this step ladder approach. I wouldn't worry too much about it aside from maybe cutting the volume down on the stuff that's just succeeding so well so that it allows your body to recover and adapt a little better for the other stuff. You're also losing weight, so you're in a calorie deficit. When was the last time that you ran a calorie surplus? I actually didn't run a calorie surplus in the last two years, studying normal as well like the last two years. Kind of been cutting down on my weight because it wasn't my lowest, or highest weight, but my lowest mental well-being and such. So I haven't run any calorie surplus in the last two years. So I would love to see you go on a small bulk where we go into a calorie surplus. I would actually see if I can get you to either hold the weight or create some sort of, to where when you do pull-ups you're doing like one to three pull-ups and load it a little bit while also being in the surplus for a while and see what that does. All right, that definitely sounds interesting. About like like progressions, like I do have the feeling that when I'm doing my pulling movements there are like small progressions happening, as in I get my chest to the bar more often I put more control on lowering down. So I do think that there are some progressions in there. So I think it's not going too bad as I thought it was. Actually, after your episode on asymmetry I started feeling myself a bit and I did notice that there are slight asymmetries in my pulling movements as well. So I'm planning working on that too. Yeah, so why don't we send you map symmetry? That'll balance you out. That would definitely help to address a lot of that stuff. Are you noticing that too in your posture in terms of like some imbalances or asymmetry as a result of your pulling movements lagging? No, I don't. My posture seems pretty okay. I do sometimes have the idea that my specifically left shoulder, left side is moving different, I'd rather say, in some locations. I think especially with my scapulae and my pulling indeed. But besides that, it generally looks okay to me or feels okay to me. You know, sometimes, Renzo, let's say like, for example, for me I'll progress faster in pulling movements than I will pushing movements. But that's because years ago I had shoulder surgery on my left shoulder and it affects me on my pushing movements, but not on my pulling movements. That's just a very clear example. But you may have some issues, some stability issues that are really affecting you more when you pull than when you push. And that may be what's preventing the strengthings from happening. There may be a real issue to this that you could solve by really diving into mobility a bit further and kind of seeing where that lies. Yeah, that's something that I would kind of like really hyper-focus on and get connected. Is there a reason why we're doing just calisthenics? Is there a reason why you're not using weights, barbells? It's mainly just during high school years I played all the field hockey and I was working a lot as well. So in my free time I didn't really have the time to go to the fitness, to the gym and actually work out there. So I just started doing stuff with my own body. And over time I started just to simply enjoy it more and especially like the fact that I'm just able to work out outside when it's sunny and that kind of stuff. Oh cool. So are you totally against though using the dumbbells and barbells? No, I'm not against it. I'm just not used to it. And I do like to figure out what the limits are of just my body. Oh dude, you're going to love map symmetry. You're going to love that. We're going to send that to you. I think that'll solve some of your issues for sure. It definitely sounds good. You got it, man. Thanks for calling from all the way from the Netherlands, by the way. Yeah, I'm happy to. It's not too late here so it's working out well. Yeah, awesome. Do we have a lot of fans out there? Not that I'm aware of. I do listen to your podcast. You should want to cycle into university. But I don't really have. I haven't heard other people talk about you guys, but I can imagine that a lot of people listen to you. Yeah, we're going to need you to start asking everybody at school if you can. Bring a flag everywhere you go. I read a while ago that the average male height in the Netherlands was like 6'2 or 6'1. Is that true? Are you guys all just massive? We are massive, but we don't use the same metric system. So like 6'2, 6'3, I'm not sure how to translate this centimeters. Oh. But I myself am like 190. Okay, no. Okay, so just to give an example, like that's so 6'2 is the average height over there. In America, the average height I think is 5'9 or 5'10. So there's a big difference so you guys are really tall. Yeah, we are. I'm actually in quite an international environment at my university. I think we've got over like 30 different nationalities in my study alone. Oh, good. And the Dutch people send out pretty much. Yeah. Well, good deal. Well, thanks for calling in. I hope you enjoy map symmetry. I hope so too. I'm looking forward to it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a nice day. Yeah. You know, he brought up something that we didn't really highlight that much, but I found that almost always you have somebody who just has a, they're better at one than the other preference. Yeah, you're either a better pusher or better puller. I'm with you, Sal. I pull. I know Justin, and I feel you guys are receivers. I mean, I mean, pullers. Excuse me. That sounds weird. Yeah. But like what Sal, you said is I'm the same way too. Like I can gain quick, I get strong quick in most pulling movements. And it's just a slower process for me in pushing movements. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not really that big of a deal. As long as your overall progressing I think is important where there tends to be an issue. Like this is a clear one. Some exercise are progressing and others are regressing. Yeah. Not super common. But if that happens, you know there's an issue. Or if you just have this hard plateau, like it just hasn't moved and other lifts are moving up, then you want to look at your program. And it's always what you put emphasis on the most. Yeah. That kind of fits into like what your strengths are already and like you reinforce that. Right. But I've noticed that too. Like if there's just certain lifts I'm like, oh wow, I'm not really as strong at this. So I just have to focus on this more and bring it more into the programming. Yeah. I also think, I mean he's been on a two-year cut. He's going to help. That's going to help all of this. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's so funny. I feel like we're going to be giving out a lot of map symmetry. I feel like a lot of people's questions. Dude, I know. Well, we were talking about this all the time. Like, well, you guys should do like a unilateral program. You should throw some isometrics. Like, oh, well, we just created a program for that. Perfect. So now we're going to dole it out. Excellent. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal.