 I'll now request Editor Nuzetine India and Nuzetine JKLH Jyoti Kamalji to welcome our next panelist on the stage, Shan Bhatnagar, artist, collector and a maximalist, interior's architect. Shan Bhatnagar is a painter, curator and interior designer, whose vibrant artworks are a distinct take on the traditional temple art of Pichwe. He's also a conservationist, working to save the dying crafts of the country and actively helps to incorporate crafts in interior projects and collectibles. He has worked with royal families of Rajasthan to design and renovate spaces. Let's begin with this session. We welcome you, sir. Over to you, Jyoti Kamalji. Thank you, Oshi. Thank you, Shan, for taking the time out and being with us here at La Aspiration. This is the second edition that we are doing in Chandigarh. So starting off right away, Pichwe painting, that whole style, that whole art, that you specialize in, that you're a master of, what is it about? Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me here. It's very special to be in Chandigarh because I actually grew up in Chandigarh. And I used to study at the Vivek High School. And I think that being here and seeing the homes of beautiful homes that exist in Chandigarh and how proud people were of the homes and the gardens that they had here has shaped me into who I am today. So I'm very happy to be here in Chandigarh and thank you for having me. Speaking about Pichwe's, I find them very aesthetic. I find them very regal. You know, they have lots of stories. They are these wall hangings that are hung behind in Nathwara at the temple of Srinachi. And so the word Pichwe really means something that hangs behind. Pich means behind and why it means a textile. So the textile that hangs behind Srinachi is called a Pichwe. And why I got interested in it is because I was studying, I was studying in Germany and I studied art appreciation. And part of my program was about the Indian traditional paintings and I chose Pichwe as my theme. So I feel that, you know, it's got great meaning, great stories, beautiful subject, very ornate and they're made in different parts including Germany. So some of the net Pichwe's were actually made in Nottingham and Germany. So it's, you know, spread across the entire world almost. So you started in Chandigarh. That's an interesting thing that you just told us about. Again, when did you kind of really think that, okay, this is something that I would like to kind of take as a profession because you have made a name for yourself. Your paintings are absolutely sought after. They are kind of hung in the best of places. The Reliance Foundation has them. So it's something that is in huge demand. But was it a point at which you decided, okay, this is what I want to do? Or did you kind of follow through with a traditional kind of learning course and then said, okay, let me experiment with this and then the experiment turned into a profession. How did it go? Actually, it's all by default, I think. I was studying something totally different, but I was always interested in it. And I think reading about it, learning about it, that kind of got me more interested in painting. Actually, I don't do the pitch-y. I have my own take on the pitch-y. So these are oil on canvas and then I embellish them. I stitch on them and it's recreating the Darshan that I've had at Natuara. So what else? I mean, just to kind of add to the fact that you're saying that it's a different take, instead of using the natural dyes, you use oil paints. Secondly, you don't just kind of use natural dyes and kind of create a painting. You actually embellish it with Rajasthani jewelry, borders, motifs. So it's actually got a 3D feel to it. It's not a flat painting. It's got elements to it. So that's something that you have added to it, which has made it very unique and a very collectible item because of what you're kind of putting in there. Yeah. I mean, I don't intend it to be a collectible. I get so attached to all my paintings. You don't want to give them away. I don't want to give them away. But what I try to do is to recreate what I've seen. And for me, I think that's most important. And if people love it and people like it, and I think that's even better. So I think the whole process is really a lot of fun, the reading, the knowing, getting to know the stories, finding out various mediums that I can work with. I think that whole process is most interesting. And that's what I look forward to rather than the finished work. And then I get very attached to them. So that's an interesting thought that you just kind of, kind of spoke about that as a creator, as an artist, as anybody who kind of puts in a lot of effort to make something, you get attached to it in the process of making it. And as you get attached to it, you kind of form a bond with it in a way. And as you form a bond with it, now you don't want to let go of it. So how does that then turn into a profession? Because you have got to create this thing, build an absolute bond with it. And then at some point in time decide to give it away. I think that's where the value in art also comes in probably. The more attached an artist would be to their art, I think the more valuable that piece of art would also be. I don't know, just exploring. How would you want to give away your art, because you would form a bond with it? Yeah, initially it was very hard, but now it's okay. But I don't, I mean, forming a bond is really with the process I feel. The finished work is fine. It's hanging in beautiful homes and I like to see them sometimes in magazines and sometimes otherwise when I visit. But I think it's not about how the investment has grown and how valuable they are, but I think the whole idea of sharing Srinadji or sharing my love of Pichwa with others. And then I also do these workshops and talks and I'm writing a book right now on Srinadji so that younger children can understand this art form better. So I think that sharing it with others is more of, you know, something that gives me a better, you know, gives me a high actually to really share it with others. And I think that the bond is with the process and I feel that this is the only time I'm going to do it or I'll be able to do it, but it just grows and grows from there. Srinadji is the Balkrishan. So is there a spiritual angle to your paintings also or is it a professional angle is there a certain spirituality that you sense because the images that I saw of your paintings they've got a very distinctive style even to the eyes like you make them in that fish style of eyes and then the colors that you use are bold kind of you would have a painting made with absolute black kind of shades also gray shades. So is there a spiritual kind of connect to what you're doing or I mean what is it? I think spiritual is the right word. I wouldn't say religious, but I do feel that there is a spiritual connect. If you talk about religious, then I'm not really a textbook version of because I do whatever I want to do and I don't really want to follow any rules, but spiritual definitely does connect me to another greater self. And while I'm painting the whole, you know, while listening to Haveli Sangit or talking about it, it really does connect me at another level of spirituality. We're talking about luxury here. We're also talking about absolute high end art and art that takes a lot of effort. So even the last time around when we had this kind of fly aspiration, the first round that we did, so we were trying to understand what does one really mean by luxury? What does it really mean? It's not what one traditionally thinks it is that you spend money, you buy something expensive, that's luxury because luxury at the end of the day is something which is very exclusive, something which stands apart and by the mere fact that it's exclusive and it stands apart, it has to be rare and if it has to be rare, then it has to be built with that much effort and thought going into it, whether it's thought, whether it's effort, whether it's materials, whether it's craftsmanship, whether it's the idea, and that's what sets it apart and that's what gives it its value. So is that how you define luxury, how would you kind of create it? Because I would say even a temple which is made with huge elaborate kind of efforts is luxury in a way because you could have made it simpler but the very fact that you put in so much effort into building it, the kind of engineering cuts that you made to it, the whole effort that was put into it, what kind of put it in a different category? How would you like to look at this if you had to add to the exploration of the word luxury? Yeah, luxury I think is a state of mind, it's not how much work one has put in, I've seen beautiful temples that are very simple but aesthetically pleasing and I've seen new constructed temples or buildings that have taken a lot of time but very ugly and probably a lot of money but they're extremely ugly and they're not inspiring at all. So I think luxury is really just a state of mind, it's aesthetics, it's something that pleases your senses, it's something that gives it, so it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to be just rare but something I feel that more to it, something that is balanced, aesthetic, gives you a sense of pride, a nice feeling when you see it, I think all of that buying an expensive bag for example can be termed as luxury but that may not always be true. So I think that some things can be very ugly and still be expensive and luxury is not really how much time one has spent on it but what it gives you back? The stock market is something that people invest in, people invest in a lot of other things, property, you invest in the stock markets. Suddenly there is this whole trend of investing in art now, one is seeing a number of new, in fact digital initiatives which talk about fractional ownership of art that you don't have to buy something worth a million dollars, you can probably put in a thousand dollars into it and then expect that as the value of the art rises to two million dollars, your thousand dollars become two thousand dollars. So how do you look upon this whole idea of art as an investment and are you seeing this trend or are you seeing people queue up to kind of invest in art? It's very limited at the moment, I think it's only for the masters, some of those artists are not even alive anymore. So I think it's something that doesn't affect artists who are living and working at the moment. Investing in art is very different, the people who are investing in art may not be art lovers, they're just investing in an object and I think that, yeah it's great for an investor, but for an artist who is working currently, or an artist whose works are very good but hasn't had the platform to show them, I think that it makes zero sense for people investing in art because I think they're really investing in an object. For example, just for an example they may be buying a Souza or buying a Raza, some of these artists not alive and that value keeps growing and the same painting will keep coming in the market or paintings of the same artists, but they're literally not doing anything to the world of art per se. Shant, before we kind of end just to kind of completely change to a different side that not just art you also do interior design. And you do something called maximalist interior design. What does that mean, maximalist interior design? These are terms that we've created, minimalism, maximalism but India is all about surface decoration, right from Mohan Jodaro to the Rajput palaces, the Mughal palaces the temples it's always been about surface design. There's always been carvings or even if it's something that will go on the elephant, that cover that goes that velvet cover that is used to decorate the elephant has such intricate embroideries and even something that will get missed or something that will be behind for example the Pichai which is behind the deity of Srinac even that has so much detail so I think that India is whether you want to call it maximalism or minimalism India is about surface design and I think that when they say God is in the details I don't think God is in the detail of a very minimalist plain white and white sofa and you know it's really just very plain and also that maximalism or minimalism it depends on the place that you're living in so I think the climate of that place is very important so in India most of the Havelis used to have a courtyard in the middle and it was open to sky and then the rooms would be around the courtyard and I think that is conducive to the environment conducive to the hot weather in India, in the plains of India where there would be circulation of air the jalis that were intricately carved would trap in cool breeze so that you know of course it painstakingly carved jalis but they would add to the beauty but also it had a purpose it wasn't just there to add beauty and aesthetics but it had a purpose also so I think that those things have remained as part of our culture today when you go to any of the forts and palaces especially because I'm from Jaipur and we have lots of palaces and lots of forts and all of them are beautiful you know frescoes on it, surface decoration jalis and things like that so they always they were of course aesthetic but they also had a purpose and meaning to everything there's a raish there's this form of plaster that you know takes a long it's a long long process and it's about three and a half feet of skirting around every room and the floor it's made of marble dust and seashells and the whole process of making it is very tedious but it was not only beautiful and they had frescoes painted on them but it also served as cool surfaces to work on in a hot very hot Rajasthan desert you know state so I feel that maximalism or surface decoration is part of our culture it's something that we don't have to think I think you force yourself nowadays a lot of these homes are clones of western homes and I think the glass and steel why do you want to trap in more sun when it's already very hot so you know the glass and steel structures are very uninspiring if you ask me and the plain white interiors don't really inspire me much but I feel that it's part of my culture always been part of my culture India is an amazing country in terms of the kind of traditions and options that exist here I mean you have travelled all over the world so you would have studied in the US you would have seen like in the Nordic countries they are very minimalist oriented in fact the more minimalist a thing is the more valuable it would be and for a maximalist it's in fact strange to find something made very simply being very expensive but then their society's orientation is towards probably simplifying things because work at home like is available in India wouldn't be there so you would generally want things to be kept clean neat simple rounded edges and everything so minimalism there but it's an interesting thought thank you so much Shan for taking the time out and joining us here and welcome back to Chandigarh you have studied here good to have you here thank you Shan thank you Jyoti Kamal we request you to be here on the stage for the felicitation Shan Bhatnagar thank you Shan I request Jyoti Kamal to please stay on the stage now we will move on to our next session