 ThinkTek, I'm Jay Fidel. We're talking about global connections now. We're talking about world reaction to the Israel Hamas war with our, what do you want to call it, our roving reporter on global affairs, Dr. Rupemati Kandekar. Welcome to the show, Rupemati. Hello, Haji. And my pleasure to be with you on the show, and always, always grateful to having you here. Thank you for being here. So this is day 10 of the Hamas attack against Israel. I should add that Hamas is still firing rockets into Israel, including a number of cities in Israel, including Tel Aviv, which is some distance away. And the Israelis are still at the border. And for reasons, maybe we should discuss why they haven't gone into Gaza just yet. But I guess the subject of our show today is global reaction. And I would like your thoughts on how the world in general and what parts of it are reacting in what ways, not only governments and nations, but people on the street around the world. How are they reacting? Can you talk about that? Okay. So now, since the October 7 attack on Israel, Israel is facing one of the most gruesome terror attacks that in its 75-year-old history. And now, latest is that Israel is fighting on three fronts, with Hamas, with Lebanon, Hezbollah, and with Syria a couple of hours ago. So the missiles are being exchanged both ways. And the world we see is divided into two distinct parts, one which supports Israel and one which is against it. Okay. Now, 84 major countries are supporting Israel. You count amongst them is America, United Kingdom, France, Canada, Norway, Austria, India, Poland, Spain, and the EU as a whole. And Iran, Jordan, UAE, Arab League, you have Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, all these people are supporting Palestine. Now, Jay, I feel that because this was a terror attack, there should have been a univocal condemnation of terror. There is no division and there is no site taking in this kind of an attack. This is a brutal feeling. And in that, if you're asking countries which site they are expressing their desire that we are on the side of Hamas, Israel should not do this. Israel should stop. But Jay, Israel is defending a terrorist attack. Do not underestimate that because what Israel did, it's acting as a reaction. The action was from Hamas side. It was savage. It was brutal. And it was uncalled for. So if the Muslim nations had come down on a univocal condemnation that this is not right, it would have been much more appreciated rather than saying that you have Iran threatening of grave consequences if Israel attacks the Gaza Strip. Israel is attacking Hamas. Israel is not attacking the Palestinians. Israel is attacking Hamas who came as terrorists in the city of Israel. Kill the civilians. How do you expect these people to keep quiet? So I mean the countries coming out in support, the U.S. was swift in its action in bringing in the aircraft carriers because we have discussed it before that Israel always faces a threat from six, seven countries at one time. So to deter Iran and Lebanon to enter the war, we have the aircraft carriers stationed immediately. UN peacekeeping forces, a major part being Indian army in it, is posted on the Lebanon side. So Israel is acting only in self-defense. That is self-defense in the face of a terrorist attack. It has to be made very clear in this. This is not a fight. It's not a war. It's not two countries aggressing each other. This is a terrorist attack. Israel is acting in defense. So that's what I mean. Yeah. Well, we have this strange conflation of Hamas and the Palestinians. We know that not all the Palestinians agree with Hamas. They're victims in their own way. But Hamas runs them. Hamas is the government, and Hamas uses them as human shields. And Hamas hides itself in civilian clothes among them. And it hides the people who are kidnapped among them. So the hostages are spread out throughout Gaza. This is a very challenging mission for the Israeli army to get them out of there. The first thing you do is you use what intelligence you have on what buildings Hamas is operating from, which I guess they've done. I'm not sure what the status of that is right now. And then you try to separate the regular people in Gaza from Hamas and its rocket equipment and the like. And you ask them to move south. Unfortunately, the Egyptians won't take them or provide them humanitarian aid or permit humanitarian aid. And other Arab countries won't take them and won't provide humanitarian aid or permit humanitarian aid. So they're kind of bunching at the southern border, the border between Gaza and Egypt. It's just tragic. The Israelis are still wondering what happened. A lot of them are wondering where the government failed. Even this morning I was listening to something on one of the big newspapers that's called Haaretz had a podcast, and it appears that Israel is still wondering where its government failed. And not everybody is happy with the government. On the other hand, Netanyahu has gotten the military on the border. And you wonder, and I wonder if you have any thoughts about this, maybe too early to know why it's taking so long for the IDF to actually initiate this attack, this ground attack. It's been talking about for the past 10 days on Hamas. Any thoughts about that? Yeah, Jay. The IDF is facing a very covert enemy. And there is concrete intelligence that there's a tunnel network of Hamas in Gaza. And this tunnel network, they were using pipes, water pipes for the missile launching. If you have come across reports of that, they were using the water pipes for launching the missiles from these points. And the tunnel network is so extensive in Gaza that the IDF has to think a lot before they go in because they don't want to come in with a defeat, come back with a defeat. That would mean catastrophic consequences for the government that you sent in our people to die. So we don't know what is waiting there. Are they waiting with ground retaliation? They have 199 hostages. The number is far, far higher. I'm sure about that. They are going to use the hostages as a shield to stop the ground attack. That is evident in what they want to do. And Jay, ground offense is always more risky than the air launches. So we see that when Israel values each and every citizen and tries to take care of, they cannot go blatantly inside and risk not only its forces lives, but the lives of the hostages. So they are trying to see easily. Israel could have said we are against Palestine and we want to kill you and they would have started the air strikes. They have given them time to move south of Gaza. Why? Because they want to avoid the non-military combatants who would fall prey to this kind of a tackle. So this is concentration by the Israelis of the Palestine lives which Hamas did not take care of when they entered Israel. Early morning they went into houses, they went with children after women. They did not think these are non-combatants. They went to the music festival. I mean, the care that this is not evacuation by choice that Israel is doing. They are doing it so that they can launch a ground offensive and clean Gaza of the Hamas headquarters because if they leave it at this point, be sure they will reinforce and come back again stronger. When you have an enemy and you leave them, they will come back stronger. And I don't think Israel can afford a terrorist attack of this scale because if they had succeeded in this attack, they would have definitely launched another. If they understand, they get an answer for their action. That is going to deter them. That is going to deter the others. Now President Mahmoud Abbas of Palestine, when he talked to Venezuela Prime Minister Maduro, he said directly Hamas is not a representative of the Palestine people. I mean, it prompted him to say that the Palestine liberation organization is the only legitimate representative of the Palestine people. So, you see what Hamas has done is even being scorned on by people of their own people. It's not that Israel is doing wrong. It's what Hamas has done. And Jay for this, I mean, I'll go a little bit off the topic, but I will talk to you about this, that there is a political roadmap of Islam or, you know, if you may allow me, of Muslims, which is to divide the world into three stages. First one is known as Dar-ul-Aman, means land of peace. This is the area where they are at Islam has reached and they are happy and satisfied with the area. Or they are in places where they cannot do anything. They have to lay calm and that is the Dar-ul-Aman. The second is Dar-ul-Haram, that is land of conflict. These are the places where if they have power and to raise a conflict and to establish Islam, they have to go for it. They have to struggle. And the third is Dar-ul-Islam, where the entire world is converted into Islam. Now you see these are extreme stages and unless you understand the mindset of this roadmap, political roadmap, you will not be able to think that Hamas is not searching for a goal of a free Palestine. It is searching for Palestine devoid of Israelis. So they want to eliminate non-Palestine people or non-Islamic people. So that becomes a problem when they get down to eliminating and, you know, wiping Israel off the map. This is the kind of aim that they are going for and the means to reach it can be slaughter, terror, massacre. And I don't think countries are going to take it lying down. So Israel is acting in self-defense. It is a very clear-cut concept that is in place right now. Yeah, so it's a matter of survival because if your enemy wants to obliterate you, kill all the Jews, push them into the ocean to drown what have you, then the Israelis cannot afford to let that happen. But I think one thing is clear here is that Hamas is only bent on one thing, killing Jews. And so if you support Hamas, then therefore you support their core mission of killing Jews. And the Israelis simply cannot afford to let that happen because if Hamas succeeds in this, either last weekend or going forward, it will happen again and again and again and worse. It will be a message to all Hamas. It will be a message to the world really that it's okay to be Hamas and to slaughter Jews. It's hard to believe that some people, otherwise clear thinking, I think, I agree with that. And I wanted to ask you what's going on in this country where we have students in major universities who are signing letters and protesting against Israel and for Palestine in their conflated way of looking at it, Palestine hyphen Hamas, they're supporting Hamas and therefore they're supporting Hamas's principal mission of killing Jews. But they're out there in these major universities, they're students, I suppose some faculty also involved. All over the country really, we have this BDS movement in the United States and elsewhere where all they want to do is attack Israel. Even though there are horrible things happening elsewhere in the world and if they were truly liberal, they would be concerned about those things elsewhere, but no, they spend their time protesting against Israel. What is going on? Yeah Jay, I mean these are universities which have such a high reputation and you know you have students who are learning and will be future leaders who have spontaneous instant reactions to support Hamas which is a terrorist organization. I mean there is a big doubt on what kind of teachings are happening in these educational institutions as a student, as a historian, as a political scientist, as you know a layman. You are always supposed to be apolitical, neutral, study both the sides, see what is right, what is wrong. If it is wrong, condemn it. If it is right, support it. I mean persecution of Jews has been happening since ages 15, 13, Palestinians persecuted the Jews. How many people of those, how many of students know that or how many students would come in and say that you know you have pictures and media saying that was a fishing village and the Jews came in and said no, you read the history, you read what happens during the Roman period, during the Byzantine period, then the Muslim period, you go through history. Then you say why the promised land, who is occupying, who is leaving. Students are supposed to go to the library, read books, not protest and when you protest so vehemently, believe me Je, their support to Hamas, that energy which they give these terrorist organizations is what keeps these going and any support to this kind of a terrorist organization leads to bloodshed on the other. And okay, you think of a completely Israel free Palestine, you think Hamas has got that kind of a heart to rule with the rule of law, they would be the same like Taliban and massacre people and put guns on their head when they're going to educational institution. These people who are protesting on Harvard grounds, they should go to one of these you know fanatic educational institutions and protest or you know speak their voice over there in support or not in support, you're not supposed to raise your voice. They don't allow any kind of opinion and here because you're in a free land, because you enjoy the rule of law because you enjoy the luxury of being in a democratic society, you sit over here and you talk about persecutions and massacres in a faraway land being right. I mean that speaks of the hollowness of a student and it's really, it's really, it's very frightening, it's very frightening to find to have any a large group of American students in American colleges and universities siding with the massacre, siding with Hamas, siding with an organization that over and over again attacks the Jews, attacks Israel, attacks women, children, babies, elderly people. It's really hard to believe that they are so, they're so uneducated. But let me, let me go to another question here and it's the flip side of all this. Now we have people in this country, you know, who for anti-Semitic reasons or reasons of gross ignorance would go out on the street in protest in favor of Hamas. That's extraordinary and we will play on our UNTRA Act a speech that was made by Eric Adams, the mayor of New York, and I think I sent that to you. It's quite extraordinary how he speaks of it and he addresses those who would protest in favor of Hamas. But you know, there's something else happening here. This is a hybrid war. It's not limited to the Hamas missiles. It's not limited to the Hamas militants who go and kill babies and children and husbands and wives and elderly music festivals. It's not limited to that. It's everything. And one of the things is social media. So what, in my view, what they have been doing is loading up social media with disinformation, making that conflation about the poor Palestinian cause, which is actually just Hamas misusing, using the Palestinian cause as a shield, as an argument. But in fact, it's not the Palestinian cause. It's Hamas. And so that social media disinformation has gotten certainly into the social media in the United States. And our social media organizations, including multinationals like we know, like Facebook and Elon Musk is the worst, and others are allowing that to be perpetrated on the American public and elsewhere. How much effect do you think social media has on this? And how effective is Hamas's hybrid war of using social media to cause people to go out on the street and protest against Israel? Correct. Jay, such a valid point that you make that what they're doing for social media. Now, any media for that sake, BBC and Sky News, they are just telecasting dozens being massacred. But Jay, when this happened, Israel was on the verge of consolidating themselves. This has happened. Then getting into retaliation. They're too busy to plan a social media attack. But right now, as the days go by, we are seeing that the social media is presenting Israel the victim as the aggressor. And that becomes a problem because Jay kind of supports saying that Israel is now attacking Israel now in a ground offensive. That is pure false misleading information because tomorrow, if somebody just picks up a paper, they're not going to go to October 7th. They have short myopic memory. They are going to look at how Israel is offending right now instead of saying that Israel is defending right now. I mean, that is the pure difference that social media is making. You have people putting in reels and putting in Facebook posts about how the Gazans are being without food, water. How do you expect Israel to come and eliminate Hamas terrorist organization in the area of Gaza if the civilians don't leave? I mean, they're not going to go house to house killing the Hamas people. They're underground. They're hiding in houses. They need to bring out the noncombatants and then they can have a face to face attack with Hamas. Hamas is a coward organization. They are hiding behind civilians. I mean, if you attack, face the consequence. It is as simple as that. Well, it troubles me to think that the world would agree with Hamas and they would forget what happened only 10 days ago and that they would blame the Israelis for the aggression when the Israelis are clearly the victims. I find that really extraordinary and it's a short memory thing and Hamas is taking advantage of that. The nation states around Israel who would like to destroy Israel are likewise taking advantage of that. So the problem is that if they prevail in turning global opinion against Israel and if Hamas, which is still firing rockets and has lost, still firing rockets into Israel, I mean, I don't understand why people would protest in favor of somebody that's still firing rockets still after all this time. Anyway, I think the message to Israel should be clear that if they don't stop Hamas, Hamas will do this again and again and they will destroy the state of Israel. They are emboldened what happened and other terror organizations may likewise be emboldened like Hezbollah, which is already moving south at the northern border and attacking Israel from Lebanon. So I guess what I'm asking is what about these nation states that we talked about? You mentioned some 80 of them have condemned Hamas, but that's not, there are 190 countries in the world, members of the United Nations, what have you. What about them? Are they silent? Are they supporting the Hamas cause? And if so, why? Yes, Jay, now last time we spoke for China being on the fence, it came out a couple of days back and said we support, we want Israel to stop the attacks immediately and not act, you know, they supported Palestine. So they became clear about this, the African countries are not taking sides as much, but more or less supporting Palestine. You see Jay, it is it's hard to say this, but it's anti-racism, it's racism, they want, there's a terrorist organization which wants to eliminate an entire race of Jews and people, even 1% of the bloke supporting this stands in the wrong because Jay, it is inhuman to use means of massacre and it is blatant. I mean, no country would have come in, now Egypt, if you're so concerned about the Palestine cause, take the civilians inside for a couple of a few days till they finish cleaning up Gaza of Hamas and they close their borders. Lebanon is refusing to take them, Syria is refusing to take them, but Israel is not saying you leave it, Israel is saying you move out till we tackle Hamas. Hamas is the aggressor, they want to deal with Hamas, they don't want to deal with civilians. Countries who are not supporting this self-defense are so many in amongst 220 nations, only 84 nations have come out with statements in support of Israel, that is a minority and that is where we should be concerned because now next month, I think the oil producing nations are going to have a meeting in which they will condemn Israel to stop the aggression. United Nations came out with a statement saying stop all aggression, why don't you say what happened before? I mean, people have all countries, as people have forgotten what has happened, only 10 days before and Jay, I mean, this is a very big point that I make that if Palestine drops the guns, there will be no war but if Israel drops the gun, there will be no more Israel. So that is the intensity of this fight, so we have to understand that this is not, it's a matter of survival, it is a matter of existence and it's continuous combat with a terrorist organization that Israel faces. For its existence, it is not for land, it is not for money, it is for existence, for breathing, I mean, that countries are not coming out with statements with, I find it very surprising that countries could find a way to support Palestine in this kind of slaughter that took place. I'm very disappointed in China, the first thing they do is support Russia against Ukraine, that's awful and then now they're completely no moral compass whatsoever and now they're supporting Hamas. So I guess what I'm worried about is the war of attrition because if there are 360,000 Israelis, that is a good percent of Israel's population in the army and preparing ostensibly for this ground war, what about the economy of Israel? They say that the attack on the 7th by Hamas was Israel's 9-11 times 20 or something, it would have been the parallel of 50,000 Americans killed at 9-11. So this is really, really, really, really traumatic to Israel, both on an outraged level, on a disappointment in the military level and of course on an economic level, you can't take three, these are civilians, right? They have jobs, they are the Israeli economy and if you have a war of attrition and you have them all bunched up at the border, they are not participating in the Israeli economy. So if it's a war of attrition, this is going to be painful and destructive to Israel as the state of Israel is an economy. Your thoughts about that? Jay, I feel right now because it's about actual state of Israel, the economy will take second base and we will consider first how to eliminate a terrorist organization which is as much as Israel progresses, such a terrorist attack will cause a downfall of economy. I mean, America, such a big country, went into recession after 9-11, you know, you had an impact after the terror attacks. So Israel, economy right now will take a back seat, but I'm sure that this is not going to be long term because this is necessary, Jay, and the amount of expenditure that comes in the, I mean, you have seen so many videos of Israeli citizens coming in support of the army coming in support of the state and that makes it more comforting that these citizens care about life more than money. And that brings a reason of hope and that shows you the resilience of the Jews to survive several persecutions over the ages. I mean, it's just not 2023. It has been since 3,500 years that this is going on. So surviving the persecutions, the attempts to eliminate are more and far done before the Arab world came into existence. So they cannot underestimate the power of the state of Israel because it is a self-sustaining state. I hope so. Jay, look inward. I mean, in a Jewish state, Arabs and Jews can coexist. But in an Arab state, Jews cannot exist with Arabs. They need to be eliminated, wiped off the map. These are the kind of words and attitude towards Jews. So how do you, where is the balance? Yeah, good point. Well, I'd like to ask you, finally, because of the disinformation out there, which leads to upside down public opinion, which leads to nations taking the wrong moral position, which plenty of them are doing exactly that. It's really important that the media get this right. It troubles me that we have headlines all over the print press, and it tells you about the terrible things that the Israelis are doing to the buildings in which it believes Hamas has headquarter operations. And on page seven, there's a small article that says Hamas is still sending missiles into Israel. So how come that's not on page one? And the same thing with Hezbollah, and the same thing with all these other countries. I would like to wipe Israel off the map. I don't understand how they can do reporting like that. And of course, it's worse on social media. So what is your advice, okay, to the conventional media? And what is your advice to the owners and stockholders of social media? Neutral, we give both the facts directly. They're giving how many people dead in Israel? How many people dead in Gaza? I mean, they came as a terrorist attack. They killed as many as they could before they were stopped. Now, when you are retaliating, there are people hiding, there are civilians, there are numbers which are exaggerated. Don't compare it was a terrorist attack. Nobody reports that, Jay. They are doing comparisons in what happened, how many people died, how many civilians were died, what water is closed, everything. If your water is closed, Israel has opened the source of water to the south of Gaza so that civilians move towards the south of Gaza. Now, this is not a dislocation. They are just moving the population, but every headline will tell you Israel is preparing an offensive into Gaza. Israel is planning an attack into Gaza. No, they are planning an attack on Hamas and Hamas only. And they're trying to get the hostages back. And they made it clear that this is really their main mission. And if Hamas or whoever is in charge of Gaza would merely return them for medical care and so they can live, then there's no need. And I find that extraordinary that the missiles are still flying. There are still operatives in Israel with guns who the Israelis have to search out. And the hostages are still in Gaza. Not a single one has been released, not a single one. And I find it extraordinary that all the poor people, you're not giving us water or food or fuel, but we'll hold on to the hostages anyway. And that's not being reported or at least accentuated in the press. True, true. At the beginning of the program, I told you Israel values each and every life for them, for Hamas, even the Gaza civilians are shielded. They prefer to put them in front of Israeli combat, die before they come to us. I mean, they're that kind of mindset. Israel is valuing the 199 hostages because value of life is humanity. These people, the way we have seen them attack, the way we see them forcing non-civilians, you have these clips of hospital treating infant babies, show me Israeli babies with, you know, they have been cut off, tortured. You know, there was a father who said that that was a blessing for his daughter. Why don't you show this? Why do you show only one-sided media reports? I mean, this is a very well thought of strategic offensive, media offensive, which is not, which is going to shift public opinion towards the Palestine. You see these marches on the streets, pro-Palestine. How many Jews or how many Christians or how many Hindus do you know will give a march? They have concerted efforts to change public opinion. And they think that this will make Israel falter, but I feel the strong iron will of Israeli people is now at its biggest test because Hamas is the one which we like to discuss will reinforce and re-attack Israel. It's like an enemy which cannot be spared because he will come back again. We've discussed the fact that Hamas was beheading infants, beheading them, chopping off their heads along the lines of ISIS, except this time it's toddlers and infants and children. And the Israelis have single-mindedly declined to show the world pictures of those infants. They have a restraint, a morality, a sensibility so that the people will be spared, especially their families and parents and the like, would be spared the agony of seeing their child dismembered. And I commend them on that. That's absolutely right, even though it would really show people the truth. Anyway, last question, Rupati. What would you say to these students? And I put students in brackets because I think just as we are all asked to do critical thinking these days when somebody says that he or she is a student and then appears in an anti-Israeli protest on a college or university campus, I wonder if we should still call them a student, a student of what? A student of violence, a student of massacre, a student of immoral, unacceptable conduct? What are they students of? So I put it in quotes. What would you say to those students? I would say that they are conveniently ignorant of facts and this convenient ignorance is not going to get them anywhere except that they are going to be in, when they are in positions of power, they are going to, you know, promote violence of this level. If you don't condemn this right now, I think you have a mental mindset which needs to be changed and when they come out to protest against Israel or in support of Palestine, you're not supporting two states over here. You're supporting a state entity versus, you're supporting a terrorist entity versus a state. I mean, there's a big difference. They are not understanding or they are not, they're conveniently forgetting that they are supporting a terrorist organization which does not have a widespread acceptance in Palestinians also, Jay. They have a PLO in the West Bank and Gaza is ruled by the Hamas. So it's not, you know, unanimously representative, even the President said. So we see that these students wish to not learn and they don't have history behind their minds when they come out to support. Myopic vision and futile protest, Jay, because whatever you protest or whatever you say is not going to shake the will of Israelis to exist in the state of Israel. Something that is yours, some energy in that land which is, you know, for the Jews will return it back to the Jews and that's what happened. Look at the history. I mean, if it was their land, students are supposed to be open-minded and when we saw them come out so openly in favor of Hamas in the face of a terrorist attack, we had four terrorists running around in India on 26 November. We had two planes in America. There were 5000 terrorists roaming the streets of Israel in the early mornings, opening doors. You know, there's a register in Palestine, which is saying that Israel has wiped off so many families. There have been so many families who have died and embraced, you know, in Israeli houses. When the terrorists came, they embraced each other because they knew they are going to finish. Who will show that on headlines or who will, which student has gone and taken the effort to read what is the Israeli story? Read both sides, make a decision based on both the stories. And if you can't, I mean, inclination is towards violence. Thank you so much for this discussion. From your lips to God's ears, as they say. We'll see you again soon. There'll be more to discuss, more to report on.