 and also known as the study circle, Mr. Sishwan Shon advocate to introduce the speaker and then we will request Mr. Devdas to, Dr. Devdas to take things forward on the post-bottom report. And before requesting Mr. Sishwan, we will request all to wear the mask, maintain social distancing and keep on vaccinating yourself. Order you Mr. Sishwan. Thank you. Good evening friends. Welcome you all. Yes. This is Sivashan Mugam, one of the organizers of the next study circle of Matasai Court. We welcome you all and we are happy to collaborate with the Beyond Law CLC. The importance of the post-bottom report and the major role it plays in the criminal trial needs no new fresh explanation and we have with us Dr. P.K. Devdas, former dean and director of Bangalore Medical College and visiting faculty of Karnataka Judicial Academy with this vast experience and this thorough knowledge in the forensic science. He will be in a better position to grow better light on this, I can call it as an obscure field and to enlighten us. With this short introduction, I request Dr. P.K. Devdas to come and set us. Thank you sir. Hello friends. Good evening. I'm from Bangalore and I'm going to speak about the post-bottom report in criminal trials. First and foremost, we will try to know what is this post-bottom and what does it mean to be? Can I? Image is gone. Can you hear me? Hello? We are able to see you all and also hear you. Okay. Okay. Post-bottom as such, it is very clear post means doctor. Mortar means dad. It is a latching word. A minute. Somebody has written, can I record the session? For all the friends, we are live on the YouTube as well as Facebook. And if you subscribe to our channel, you will get this session. Also, plus the other sessions. Over to you sir. Post-bottom as such, it is very clear. Post means doctor. Mortar means dad. It's a latching word. There is another word in Greek. It's called autopsy. Autopsy means autumn means self. Opsy means safer oneself. And this is a Greek word. And this autopsy or post-bottom is of two types. One is medical legal autopsy. Other one is clinical autopsy. Clinical autopsy is mainly done by doctors to find out why the person has died. What is the disease? How far it has extended? What could be the reason for him to die due to disease? And here, this clinical autopsy, it is only for diagnosis, diagnostic purpose, and the consent of the relatives we take in. And it's a limited one. One is small post-border. Body will be cut open, especially which area is of interest. For example, if they want to know what is the reason, there was some signs of disease of brain. And they'll cut only the brain part. Whereas medical legal autopsy is done in all unnatural deaths. And it is complete. And there's no need for getting the consent from the relatives because the state authorizes for medical legal process. And this, who can conduct the post-bottom examination? Only the registered medical practitioner can conduct post-bottom examination, not all the doctors. Only allopathic doctor who have done MBBS. Minimum qualification is MBBS. Some doctors who have got qualification between forensic medicine also can do. And they are much better than ordinary MBBS doctors, forensic medicine. Forensic medicine is a specialized branch in medical education where, after MBBS, it is a three-year course, they learn about the legal medicine. That is, what all the medical issues which is related to the law, they will study in forensic medicine. It's equal to any other MBBS master degree. And what is the purpose of doing post-bottom examination? Later we come to the post-bottom report little later. Purpose of conducting post-bottom examination is to know the identity of the person first, the foremost. Second is, when exactly the person would have died, that is time since death, third is cause of death, fourth is nature of death. These four ingredients should be there in the post-bottom. And if there is any other points or findings if the doctor comes to know, that also he can incorporate in the post-bottom report. But basically every post-bottom report should have these four ingredients, establishing the identity of the dead person. And two or opinion regarding time since death and what is the cause of death and what is the nature of death. These four is a must. And where, what is, what exactly is the post-bottom? Post-bottom, medical little cases it should be thorough examination both external as well as internal. External means right from the corpse worn by the person to the skin and any deformities, disease, stains and injury on the body. Everything on the body and as well as everything in the body should be examined, noted and the reports should be different. This is, there are main main three cavities in our body that is skull cavity, chest cavity and abdomen cavity. Skull cavity contains brain and CSF cerebrospinal fluid and to reach the skull cavity the skin of the head should be cut and the skull should be shot and it should be exposed. And to examine the chest and abdomen a single incision from chin to the pubis, pubis means area just above the genital organ should be cut and the body should be open and each and every part in the chest and abdomen should be examined thoroughly. This is about the three cavities and it's a must. But sometimes what happens to a person it's not needed or it's not possible to open certain cavities that I will come to a case like Supreme Court, there is a case of suffering versus union of India. There was a dispute, the skull was not open, the disease of the person you must be knowing what was the disease person and the court gave the verdict. In spite of the skull cavity was not open, the verdict was given and the person was convicted and he was and they were right. So, all the three cavities should be open. What are the exceptional cases where postmortem, medical legal postmortem or unnatural death postmortem is deferred. For example, in case of a disaster natural disaster tsunami where number of people died and in that case deputy commissioner that is the head of the district, district magistrate can authorize for disposal of the body without conducting very rare cases exceptional exceptional cases. If they are also they will note down the identity of the person and they may not have opened the body and they will give a certificate that so also in this identification law and they are right. This is exception in case of postmortem. Now, who long the postmortem should be conducted? Is the time limit? Is it for one hour? Is it for two hours? It depends upon the type of case. If the case needs two, three hours or more, the doctor can take that many hours and conduct the examination meticulously and take down all the points and deport it. But as it usually most of the doctors they take about one to two hours to completely examine the dead body, the external and internal draft. Now, what is this identity? Before that we will try to know what are the ingredients of the postmortem. Whether this postmortem report is a prescribed format, is in prescribed format or government has prescribed, this is the way you have to write the postmortem report. Postmortem report is not a prescribed word. It can be written as the doctor feels, but it should have grossly three parts in the postmortem. It need not have columns and other things but three parts. It contains mainly three portions. One is preamble, second is body, third is opinion. These three should be there in every postmortem. What is this preamble? Preamble means it is the information given by the investigating officer against the police officer. He may give the name of the person, approximate age of the person. If he knows the sex of the person, he can give the sex of the person from where the body has been brought and who has sent the body for these details of this information falls into the preamble. The body of the postmortem is the main portion of the postmortem. It contains general description of the dead person, external descriptions. That is what clothi was possibly there. And color of the clothes, type of the clothes, whether the clothes are stained with blood, mud or the form intact, everything should be written in that body of the person. Then when the body, when the body, dead body is examined, we have to write certain points which can help us in identifying the person. For example, you have to write the body is not from male. It is identity. And complexion of the person, a brown and complex, dark and complex, very complex. Approximate height, measurement of the body and weight of the person. And sex. These are the general descriptions of the dead person in the body of the person. Apart from this, we can also write certain deformities, defects which we find on the dead body. Devdas sir, sorry to bother you, could you just slightly come closer to the mobile because a lot of people are saying the voice is not that clear. Can you work it? Could you just slightly come closer to the mic or that is to the mobile so that people can hear it much better. They are saying. This is the closest I can see. This is the close. Unfortunately, my last desktop as a problem. No issues. Now, can you hear me now? Not much better. Other than the clothes and the complexion, sex of the person, height of the person, weight of the person and any other defects for us. For example, if the person is having only one limb, that is a good identification mark. If he has got moles, scars and those also can be written in the post-mortar reports. Having this scar, this big scar, this elevated scar, the deep scar. I am measuring so many centimeters and it is there on the chest, somewhere wherever it is there. So, these points will help to confirm that that person is so and so. After that, in the body of the post-mortar report itself, there are certain other findings as to be written. For example, most of you must have heard in the court or you must have read in the post-mortar report saying that a rigor mark is post-mortar staining, cooling of the body. How long this thing is written? What does this mean? What is rigor mark? What is the cooling of the body? What is post-mortar staining? These are the changes. These are changes which take place after death. Like, for example, if a person dies, the body slowly becomes stiff. This is called rigor mark. It starts about 2 to 3 hours after death and it takes about 12 hours to completely become stiff. This is first 12 hours. The body becomes stiff. Next 12 hours, it stays in the same position. The whole body will be stiff. The third 12 hours, the stiffness slowly becomes loose, which we call breaking of the rigor mark. This stiffening of the body after death depends upon so many factors, the weather conditions, where exactly the person was found, whether inside the room, whether the AC was there, whether fans were on, whether the body was directly under the sunlight. All these things can help us to find out whether the rigor mark is exactly the person's diet. Rigor mark is among rigor mark is cooling of the body, post-mortar staining, decomposition, that is called decay. All these 4 or 5 can give clue when exactly the person is dead. That is time since death. See, rigor mark is a stiffening most of you know. I don't want to go into detail because I have a limited time here. Post-mortar staining is when we are alive, the blood is always in motion, circulating and once the heart stops, the blood starts settling due to gravity. It starts settling at the bottom most part of the body. For example, if the person is lying on the back, dead body is kept lying on a back surface. If the face is facing the sky or roof, then the post-mortar staining or the blood settling in the body will be on the back of the body. Wherever the blood vessels are open, the blood will settle. Wherever the blood vessel is compressed because of the weight of the body, those areas, the blood will not penetrate and those areas will not find staining. This post-mortar staining also takes about 1 to 2 hours to form. Initially it will be in patches, red color in patches and then it becomes uniformly discolored. Usually dark in color, reddish in color and it is dark red or bluish in color. Depending upon the color of the blood. This up to 6 hours, this patches will form on the back of the body and if you find in patches, we can say the person is dead before 6 hours. So, whole dependent part is discolored, we can say the person is as died more than 6 hours. This is also which we will give a clue regarding the time since death. Again, post-mortar staining also will give the position of the body at the time of death. For example, in case of hanging, the post-mortar staining will be the lower limbs and forearms because of the gravity, the blood starts settling the legs and forearms. Rarely the post-mortar staining will not be there if the body is not allowed to stay in one position. It may sound funny, how can a body will be more gone moving? This can happen if the body is found in a river then because of the stream flow of water, the body also will roll and roll and roll. There is no time for the blood to settle in that and due to gravity. Those times, we may not find post-mortar staining. Or even if the post-mortar staining is there, people like me, dark complexion, it will not be that prominent, comfortable, safe complexion. With their complexion, it will be easily visible from this. Sometimes people also mistake this post-mortar staining for some injury. Doctors should mention in the post-mortar report that it is post-mortar staining. Clearly. So, Riger Martins and post-mortar staining will give you a clue regarding when exactly the post-mortar staining is right. And there is another point in favour which can also help us to know when the post-mortar staining is right. That is, cooling of the body. What is this cooling of the body? If you had the opportunity to touch a dead body, if anyone among you, naming a near and dear, that body would have felt very cold. What could be the reason, why the body becomes cold? The body... Kaili, unmute yourself. Kaili, unmute. I'll just, just, just. Can you? Unmute, sir. Unmute. I don't know how to unmute. You see on the mic icon. It's fine, it's fine. Now? It's fine now. Okay, okay. I'll just connect it again. Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. Perfect. Now, it's better than the previous one. Okay, okay. See, the dead body attains the temperature of the environment. Sir, just repeat the previous two minutes because you have muted yourself. Okay, okay. Other than this post-mortar, rigor martis and post-mortar staining, there is another change which takes place in the dead body that is called cooling of the dead body, which we call. As such, the body, there's no mechanism body to get cold. The dead body, because of stoppage of circulation, the blood circulation is stopped. What happens now? The body attains the environmental temperature by convection and radiation. So, when we test the dead body, can you hear me? Yes, sir. We are able to hear you. When we test the dead body, we feel the body is cold. Okay? Yeah. Can you? Yes, sir, yes, sir. Okay. So, rigor martis, post-mortar staining and cooling of the body all together, we can roughly assess when exactly the person has died. But no doctor, there is no mechanism to say in minutes and hours when exactly the person has died. It is in a range we can view. Three to four hours or six hours, 12 hours, 34 hours, 36 hours, 72 hours, like this we can say. Other than rigor martis, post-mortar staining and cooling of the body, decomposition also can do regarding the ends of death. What is this decomposition? Because once the circulation stops, once the warmth is lost in the body, the bacteria which is already within the body, good bacteria starts multiplying and they produce gas, hydro, sinic acid, okay, hydrogen sulfate, sorry, hydrogen sulfate, carbon dioxide, these gases accumulate in the body, the body starts bloating and the hydrogen sulfate combines with hemoglobin becomes greenish hydro, methamoglobin, okay. So, this body becomes greenish initially, later it becomes bluish in color and the whole body will be bloated, foul smelling and it discolored. This also we can use to assess the times of death. For example, by 72 hours, after 72 hours the intestines may come out of through anal canal also, tongue will be protruding, thigh balls will be protruding, all these things also will tell us the times of death. So, why this time sense death is important? Time sense death is important in case of criminal trial. As you know, when exactly this person died, who was there with that person at that time, Ali B and other things, this is left to you, you all know about these things. So, times is death can be calculated, point is that no mechanism, no doctrine can give exact minute to minute times of death. Other than this four, we can also find out times is death by internal findings. For example, stomach, if the food is there in the stomach, by knowing the type of food and quantity of food, we can also tell when exactly this person died. For example, roughly it takes four to six hours for our food to digest, okay. That is from the stomach to going to the intestine, stomach to get emptied, it takes four to six hours, a less fatty food, four hours, fatty food like meat and other things up to six hours. So, how they calculate if they, I don't know when exactly he has eaten a food, what type of food, if he gives that information to the doctor, doctor can calculate when exactly the person has died after the last meeting. For example, it is in this four hours emptying time, first two hours, half of the food will be thrown into the intestine from the stomach. For example, if 400 milligrams of food is eaten, okay. And after two hours, there will be only 200 milligrams ML of food for the stomach. Likewise, after four hours, the whole stomach will be emptied. But sometimes the stomach content can stay for hours together if the person is in unconscious state or in coma, because the motility of the intestines will be retarded because of the coma. So, stomach content and belongings can also give low regarding. This is about the time since that all this information that is like and what is postmortem standing and decompose change in cooling of body can be in the body part of the postmortem report that is second. And apart from this, the body of the postmortem should have any injuries on the body, especially multiple injuries. You may be due to road traffic accident, maybe assault with weapons like knives or a butcher's axe and other things are bullet. These injuries also should be written on the in the column that is body of the postmortem. And every injury should be written by numbering. Okay. Number one, this is the injury. Number two, this is the injury. And it should be recorded from yet to go that is better for the doctor so that you will not miss any injury. From it, he has to start down and go on describing what is the injury. Type of injury can be laceration, operation, conclusions and chop injuries, stab injury, electrical injuries, a gunshot injury. The injury can be a different. He has to name the type of injury, the size of the injury, where exactly it is present, whether it's present on the forehead, whether it's the presence of the cheek, whether it is present on the neck. So he has to describe the name of the injury, size of the injury, location of the injury, and shape of the injury and direction of injury. All these things should be written very clearly. Can you? Can you hear me? Hello? Hello? Okay. Thank you. So injuries should be written in such a way it should be meticulous and described in detail. So along with the injury is the close is also shown, but also should be mentioned in the separate column described on the floor. Of course, the stab injury enters the clothes and goes into the chest. Okay. Can you mean? The bandwidth at your area is quite low. Yes, sir. You can speak. Okay. See, injuries has to be written in order regarding the position, shape, size and location. And any particle in the injury also should be written and retrieved. For example, if mud is there or paint is there in the injury, that has to be taken and should be preserved and that also should be written in the post-mortar report. So this body of the post-mortar report external is all this information which I told right now should be there. Next, we come to the internal examination. For example, skull cavity, chest cavity, abdominal cavity should be open and examined and described in a descriptive simple language format. As for as possible, doctors should not use a technical words and you should use a common words which is equivalent to a technical word so that it will be easy for the people who can understand including the clients who have who can have the access to the post-mortar report also should understand what exactly the doctor is. So skull, the doctor has to open and he can write about the nature of the skull, nature of the skull, nature of the brain, whether they are intact, injured or diseased. Three columns will be there including a column for spinal cord, spinal column, then comes a chest wall, ribs and the covering inside the chest wall and lungs, media staining, heart, large vessels, everything he has to describe in the second cavity column that is the internal findings. The abdominal cavity, this one we have to write about the abdominal wall, the peritoneum that is the inner covering of this abdomen, the intestine, the stomach, liver, kidneys, liver and other things should be written in these columns. And the last column is about the kidney, bladder and genital organ. This also should be described. If no injury is found, no defect is found, no disease is found, he can write intact in place, intact and after these things he has to write whether he is preserving anything for future examination. For example, in case of poisoning where the doctor can collect the viscera, what is viscera? Viscera is sample of tissues where the poison passes through. The poison if it is consumed from the mouth to esophagus that is the foot pipe, it will go to the stomach. From there it goes to the intestine, from there it goes to the blood, from blood it goes to the kidney, from kidney bladder and out. So any drug has got the passage this way. So the doctor has to collect the organs wherever the poisonous past. For example, he has to collect the stomach along with the stomach content and after the first portion of the small intestine, then under the middle of the blood and on kidney and off a cage of liver. These are the things they routinely collect, but they are called viscera. So these organs are collected and preserved, packed and sent, labelled and sent to the forensic silencer lab. In case if they do, for example, in case of poisoning they have to collect all these organs, put in wide mouth jar and put the organ and preserve it. Most of the doctor in our country they use common salt, sodium chloride. Yes sir, kindly unmute you. Say in fact, check at your place, your bandwidth is low of the network. Yes sir, say in fact kindly check your networks, bandwidth is quite low. I am very sorry, extremely. I try to fiddle with my desktop and it's gone. I am managing with my cell phone, holding cell phone in one hand and just trying to. No issues, no issues. Because I am old man, I don't know how to control all these things. No issues. Okay, see sodium chloride is commonly available and it's not, it's cheap and anybody can access here, they use. Okay, and they should use enough sodium chloride. Okay, almost one third of the volume of the organs what they have preserved, they should use the sodium. Somebody has asked in case of injected poison, what should be done? Okay, blood is enough. This viscera business, sending viscera is an age old practice and still mean doctors are not changed. Okay, we don't require all these things. If we find the poisoning blood that's more than enough. So in case of injected, injected poisoning, blood is enough. For example, in case of a snake bite, it's very difficult to detect. That's another part. That's also injected a poisoning, innate poisoning. That is also difficult. For example, irrespirable gases if it is in the end. Okay, that also is difficult to identify, but ingestion, ingestion means taken by mouth. It's easy. Hello, can you? Can you hear me? Sir, the audibility is slighted issue because the network is quite low, but it's fine. Okay, so this is about collection of viscera. Suppose if the doctor finds some disease must be the cause of death, he can preserve a tissue and he has to send it to the histopathology examination to the department of pathology in a medical college hospital. Where all you can send it, what all the condition where he has to send these tissues. For example, in case of his suspects, heart attacks, a piece of coronary artery he can preserve and confirm it. Okay, awesome, real disease. He can take a small piece of tissue, small piece of tissue, and he can preserve in formaldehyde and send to the pathologist. Okay, likewise, in case of recover certain items, for example, bullets, bone fragments, or foreign body in the body, that also he should be collected and sent to the forensic science laboratory for analysis and reporting. So in such cases, if he does viscera or histopathology, he cannot give the opinion as to the cause of death immediately. Okay, so hello, hello, it's fine, it's fine. Okay, in case of disease, the tissue has to be sent to the department of pathology for histopathological examination to confirm what is the disease. So if he preserves any of this viscera or is a tissue for histopathology, or any other things, he has to reserve his opinion. He cannot give the opinion as to the cause of death. He has to write there in the column of final opinion, that column, opinion column, reserve pending, want of chemical analysis report. A reserve opinion is reserve pending for want of histopathological report like this, he has to keep. So this is about the three parts of the postmortem report that is preamble, body, and opinion. For example, if the report doesn't come on time, it may take longer time, who is responsible? It is the response where the poll is to get these reports from the forensic science laboratory and submit to the doctors. And as well, it is this response where to collect these samples from the doctor and take it and submit to the forensic science laboratory and get the report. Usually what happens this poll is investigating people will not collect the reports or the material in time and also will not submit the reports on time and there will be delay in giving final opinion. Yes sir. Hello, can you hear me? Yes sir, yes sir. Okay, okay. See, my topic today is only regarding postmortem report, the content, that's all. Regarding other things like the range, firearms and other things, it is a different subject which I can speak if there is a lot to me. Now, the third part in the postmortem report is cause of death, very important that is cause of death. Cause of death he has to mention that should be at the end. He has to write why exactly this person has died. Usually the right death is due to shock, asphyxia and all these things which may not be right on the part. He can write that death is lost due to loss of blood, okay, because of multiple injuries. Death is due to poisoning he can write and like this. Now, the third, first is identification, second is time sister, third is cause of death, cause of death. After complete thorough examination, most of the time the doctor will know what is the cause of death. But sometimes, sometimes, sometimes in spite of complete autopsy, thorough autopsy and investigation both visual and laboratory investigations and other things, opinion as to the cause of death cannot be witnessed. If new people are thinking autopsy, they can find anything, everything, why the person has died, that is wrong. About 5% of the cases, it cannot be obtained. It's called obscure autopsy, where in spite of complete examination, sometimes doctor cannot give opinion as to the cause of death, which we call as a negative autopsy and obscure autopsy, 5%. Why the doctor cannot give opinion, for example, if body is highly decomposed, the injuries, minor injuries which is destroyed because of decomposition or certain poisons, poisons which cannot be detected in chemical analysis and it cannot be detected in chemical analysis. So, negative report falls into the 5% category where the doctor cannot give opinion. Now, the last point in post-motor report, can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. The last part that is identification times is death, cause of death. The last part of post-motor report is the nature of death. Here, the doctor should never write what is the nature of death in the post-motor report in the report immediately, because nature of death is whether it's a suicide, homicide, or accident like that. That is not a point to be written by the doctor, unless until it is asked by the investigating officer that, sir, you have given the post-motor report, these are the injuries are there, whether these injuries is sufficient to cause death and these injuries can be caused by this weapon. That time, the doctor can give his opinion, then it is agreed. But in the post-motor report, the doctor should never write nature of injury as far as possible. For example, in case of hanging, the IOS will ask whether the hanging is suicidal or omicidal. How can the doctor say suicidal or omicidal just by examining the dead body? Because he has to have the information regarding where exactly the person was found hanging, what is the height, suspension point, and what is the material, and all those things, information should be there. And to a certain extent, in case of hanging cases, we can say it could be suicide. It cannot be omicidal. For example, it's very difficult for an adult person to be hanged by any other person, unless until a group of people get involved. That is called lynching. And it's very difficult for anybody to hang without causing any bodily injury on the dead person. And it can be possible in case of young children, mother will tie the rope around the neck of the child and hang. That's called omicidal hanging. Or if the person is very weak and that person can be hanged by another person. But here, the tying of knot can be very important for us to say whether it is tied by that person or by another person, by self or by other person. This also can be found when where exactly the ligature material is there on the neck and where exactly the knot and how the head is tilted. All these things can tell us whether the hanging is by self or by third person. Interestingly, interestingly, there are five types of hanging. That is suicide hanging, omicidal hanging, post-motor hanging, post-motor hanging and lynching and judicial hanging. These are the types. And usually doctors would never give opinion regarding it's a suicide hanging or omicidal hanging unless until it is asked by the investigating officer. This forms the entire post-motor report content. That is, the clue regarding time's death, clue regarding the injury and cause of death and nature of death. This kindly share comments at this time. Okay. This is about the post-motor report. Usually, no two states has got the similar post-motor report formats in our country. But there is only one pre-steady format, a post-motor report that is called in case of custodial death, the National Human Rights Commission has prescribed a pattern of post-motor report where it has got a few more things like, for example, sketches outline of the human body and those things will be there and it comes in a form of booklet. And it's a prescribed one and we can, it's easy for us just to fill it up instead of writing it. And next point, you will ask me whether the written post-motor report is the original or the notes prepared by the doctor is original. This question also comes in the court of law. See, a doctor who is conducting post-motor examination cannot write simultaneously. He has to dictate to somebody so that that person will take down and later doctor will write it and sign it. Once the doctor signs the post-motor report, you should accept it. That is, he is written and it is authenticated. And also each page of the post-motor report should be signed by the doctor clearly with his name. If necessary, there should be a rubber stamp also of the doctor's name designation should be there. It's easy for the police also to give serve summons also code to serve summons. This is about the post-motor report. Do you have any doubt and if you find it difficulty in hearing me? Okay, it's fine. Okay, so we will confine only to the post-motor report. Okay, now for example, in Kerala state, they make a notes and they keep it there only. They make a small draft, take a note from the notes and they submit to the investigating office. How long the doctor should take to submit the post-motor report is another question. This post-motor should be reported as early as possible. He should submit the post-motor report to the investigating officer. That is within 24 hours is a better one. And usually what happens now, in case of a viscera preserved, it takes a little longer time. The duration or delay is mainly because the investigating officer because they take their own time to take it, collect it, then keep it in the police station for some times and Mahajir and other things they do it and send it to the forensic science department. Sometimes it takes one or two years for the forensic science laboratory report to reach us. Nowadays, it is faster because every state is opening regional forensic science laboratories and it's quite but the method of examination of analysis is also most of the places it is outdated and we need as to be looked into that also, why the report is not accurate, unreliable. Regarding injuries, there are many types of injuries that we have to go into details and changes of death is another big chapter which we have to go to. Is there more than one type of post-motor? Yes. There are two types. Initially, I told no clinical autopsy and medical legal autopsy. Somebody asked me, okay, somebody asked me, I can see that. Is there how many types of post-motor me has asked? There are two types. One is clinical autopsy, otherwise medical legal autopsy. Clinical autopsy to know the cause of death, medical legal autopsy, not only know the cause of death, time is death and other things. This is for now and more. And hello. Hello. Now, most of the time, the body will be fresh in nature. It's easy for the doctors to conduct post-motor examination and submit the report. Sometimes what happens more? By the time the information reaches the police station, by the time the police reaches the spot where the dead person is there, the body would have changed because of decomposition. Sometimes if the body is found in a forest area like that, within hours, wild animals would have eaten the most part of the body and it will not be in one piece. Sometimes the body will be dragged to some distance and okay, I think you can hear me. Sometimes what happens is that the dead body will not be in bone pieces, the body will be highly decomposed and it will be very difficult. Sometimes only skeleton will be there or sometimes by the time the police reaches, the relatives would have burned the body and it will be in ashes and burned in nature. Can you hear me? Yes sir. Sometimes the body, if it is mutilated by animal or if it is burned by the time the police reaches, it will be hop burned. So that time also the doctor has to examine. Sometimes skeleton remains has to be examined. Sometimes burnt bodies, burnt bones will be submitted for us to examine and give. That is also post-motor examination only. And the other one is you must have heard about exhumation. Exhumation is removing the dead body which is already buried, exhumed the body. If there is doubt regarding cause of death, why the person has died, why the person, if the body is buried without post-motor examination, sometimes it happens because the relatives will not know to inform the police they would have buried the body. In such cases a post-motum is required and only the magistrate can order the exhumation of the dead body. And the tassels are executed, magistrate will exhumed the body and the body will be submitted to the doctor and the doctor has to conduct the examination of the already buried dead body which is called post-motum examination on the exhumed body. This is a little bit of troublesome or not very comfortable or pleasant job for a doctor to conduct post-motum examination on the dead body which is removed from the buried ground because it will be foul smelling and disfigured and a lot of people will be around with curiosity and the environment will not be very friendly for the doctor in spite of that doctor has to do the post-motum. He can do the post-motum near by the side of the burial ground or he can ask the police to bring the dead body to the mortuary and there he can conduct examination also this is about the exhumation of the already buried body. So at the end I can say the body is brought by the police for post-motum examination it may be intact it may be fresh or it may be yes sir somebody has asked me can a magistrate ask for post-motum yes in case of custodial death in case of death due to dowry related death 304b 498 case the magistrate will draw the panchanama especially custodial death hello in case of custodial death the magistrate will come into the picture and he will draw the panchanama and he will give the request for conducting post-motum examination that's the exceptional cases but routinely any SHO can give request for post-motum examination to the nearest doctor who can ask order for second post-motum that is the magistrate can order for exhumation and second post-motum examination. Second post-motum examination in case of exhumed body magistrate has to ask but in case of sometimes what happens no a person dies in some foreign country they would conduct post-motum examination there and the body is brought here the relatives are telling suspecting that they don't agree with the report what they have to given in the foreign country they want another post-motum examination in these cases any investigating officer can ask for a post-motum examination it need not be executive magistrate usually whole is most of the cases the investigating officer will ask for the request for post-motum examination usually in how many times post-motum file can be changed oh this is a question you should not change the post-motum file okay once written is written if there are any mistakes okay is there are any mistakes that word should be lined a single line by a pen and the correct word should be written above that word it cannot be changed okay post-motum report cannot be changed often okay this is about the second post-motum examination so it can be changed it is saying how many times post-motum reports can be challenged challenger yeah as far as my knowledge goes that is during cross examination itself they are challenging no yeah during post-mot either in trials during defense council will challenge every post-mot report next question confidential is another question no it cannot in our state in Karnataka by paying about a small amount of fees they can get that copy of the post-motum but only thing only offered submitting to the investigating officer organ donation of the death person post-motum oh it's very interesting case question because I was involved in propagating organ donation in Karnataka state because I was member of appropriate authority and there was doubt whether organs can be taken out to transplant you to the third person in case of medical legal cases especially road traffic accidents 2008 I was the one to year 2008 I was the one who helped the investigating officer to harvest organ from a brain dead a lady in that lady's organ heart was transplanted to some other needy person see this organ donation people say if you remove the organ we cannot give opinion as to the cause of death and there can be injustice in the court of law the person will not get justice all this thing is there no even case of murder have removed organs for transplantation because the doctor will know only the good functioning organs from the dead body and that is not necessary if the organ is good functioning it is not the cause of death so we need not bother about sir organ donation and if a person has sustained injury remain hard doesn't change the the opinion okay only thing doctor should be confident and support this organ donation campaign so that the people more and more people will get there is no endurance in conducting organ harvesting organ before postmortem examination it is done routinely in Bangalore and the model which I created in Bangalore it's called Bangalore model which is copied by other states also Chennai is the leader in organ transplantation Karnataka is was second now Kerala is taken the second position and we go ahead in harvesting the organs even in case of medical legal cases for example ashes are the details you can get in ashes no no in ashes if the totally burnt body if the police submits ashes for examination it is not possible to give any opinion as to the cause of death but if we find third molar tooth in the ash third molar means the wisdom tooth if you are lucky we can find the DNA from the blood which is there in case of root of the tooth book suggests for understanding medical legal jurisprudence somebody has asked SW Cox is one book which is good for you people it's not very big one and in that book there he also quotes lot of cases where judgment has been given for example I said no such thing versus union of India there were two references in that book one is whether all three cavities should be opened no okay whether all bullets should be recovered no because the person whose postmortem was done was our former prime minister so there was not much time for doing the detailed postmortem examination so they could not collect all the bullets from the body but still it's h w h w h w yeah not h w Cox okay and Modi is very big book okay and it'll take long time and oh false postmortem report what punishment is another person as usually the postmortem report will not be false okay but it will not throw much information if the doctor is not very familiar with postmortem exam so the postmortem report will not be complete and it will not be in detail okay I don't think so any doctor will change the postmortem report that easily because you know the consequences of ordering the postmortem fabricated by the doctor is it has to be proved in the court of law and defense this prosecution is there for this defense is there and the presiding officer will look at it and the punishment as you know fabricating any document is for giving as false evidence under both is a serious crime 191 IPC section see evidence comes means postmortem report is a documentary evidence and the person who satisfies the postmortem report in the witness box is an expert witness and especially expert witness will not have any interest in the case so it is documentary evidence and it is an expert witness examination it's going fast virtual autopsy somebody has saw is there any murder by causing yes SW talks medical judgment and talks the college yes it's a good book a lot of information is there Narayan Reddy is for medical students okay a law student it's not in detail but only thing is as you get any case particular thing you have to search for that book it'll be difficult for you if you got any doctor friend just get some information from them and search for yourself don't believe any doctors because all the doctors will not have that much expert experience and expertise in case of postmortem hardly very few doctors are involved in postmortem examination for example government doctors they do it's a bound and duty of the doctor government of postmortem exception but exception is that in Karnataka state even private medical college they can do medical legal autopsy it has been done for more than 25 years private medical college also conduct autopsy and it's accepted in Tamil Nadu one or two medical college like Ramachandra it was private hands then it becomes a government then again it has gone to private they do the postmortem action and I don't think so any other place any other state with doctors foundation it is it is the body will be with support mechanical support ventilators and other things and the person is brain dead so we can take our own time in searching the suitable recipient it's not that over is there the list take it and take the organ and put it in the recipient person we have to match it so cross matching has to be done whether the recipients blood is matching with the donors then only it has to be transplanted so till we get the suitable recipient the person that brain dead person can be kept in ventilator support okay this is about organ donation hello so I think we have broadly understood the concepts what we wanted to have I'm sorry there was a lot of interruptions I didn't expect and no issues as long as we will do the postmortem of the session today after the session is over we will see my language was it simple and the audience yeah yeah I'm reminded of the famous song they'll say yeah so we have all understood and any questions from your side no no it's fine the participants were quite active they were fully jotting down on the maybe you should involve more and more doctors to this audience because there are more than under section in IPC which involves with human body gradually gradually we will graduate we had requested justice talent who has who is of earlier devised the book of modi jurisprudence modi medical jurisprudence no yesterday it was his birthday I talked to him he said that yes I will do on forensic medical science yeah so tomorrow friends we will have a session on rape sexual offence section 375 to 376 e of indian penal code to be understood by john as revs advocate from kerala I could lose stay connected with us tomorrow and on behalf of all those participants who have been watching us live on the youtube facebook and on this platform we thank you Dr. Devdas pk for giving his insights we are also thankful to our knowledge partners the next study the study circle under the ages of the senior advocate e home prakash for becoming our knowledge partners and if you like the youtube channel of beyond the CLC you can share like and comment upon the same so that the people can understand what type of webinars up to 350 we have done or it has been done and thank you sir and everyone stay safe stay blessed thank you for the opportunity meet again thank you