 Chikago State University releases presidentinubu's academic records and NLCTUC suspend nation-wide strike for 30 days. I have Bola Oba and this is plus politics. Chikago State University has released the academic records of Nigeria's president, Bola Tinubu, following requests by former vice president Attiku Abu Bakar, candidate of the people's democratic party in the February 2023 elections. The documents contained Tinubu's admission records and a letter dated 27 June 2022 confirming that he attended the university from August 1977 to June 1979 measuring in accounting. The letter said Tinubu was awarded a bachelor of science in business administration with honors on 22 June 1979. Attiku was demanded for Tinubu's academic record in a bid to prove that the Nigerian president lied about attending CSU, arguing that it would boost his suit challenging the president's election in the February 25 presidential poll. Joining me to discuss this are Nelson Ekujumi Executive Director Center for Social and Economic Rights and Prof. Chris Mustafa Ngwakobia Jr., Convener Country First Movement. Gentlemen, welcome to plus politics today. Did the pleasure to have you guys? Let's start with Prof. Ngwakobia. Prof, what is your take of this ongoing seemingly an ending inquisition into a man's past? Interestingly, there is a cliché. It's a popular forage that says that Cesar's wife must be a boat boat. If you seek to gobble must be credible, transparent and the credentials of anybody who wants to gobble the country should be one that is subject to review and one that can stand the ego eyes of those that he wants to pretend over. And Bola like you noted, this didn't just begin yesterday. It started about 23, 24 years ago. Once you can if I'm your blessed memory began an inquisition into the records of a man who then was a governor of Lagos State. He raised these same questions. And as I talked to you today, one fundamental practice that comes to mind is the fact that Khalil, one of the greatest poets of all times, Khalil once said that truth crossed to earth will rise again. And that's where we are today. What appeared like a man who has been able to manipulate the processes of inquisition and manipulate the scrutiny as it were, manipulate the legal processes at home has come to judgment. That's the way I put it because as it were, you relax yourself. And that's where I want those who truly care about our country to look at this. Let me give your colleague the opportunity to also have a go at it. Let me just give you something in. If you are asked to present your certificates, you will gleefully and joyfully, if you went to school, present them rather than go to courts to ask the courts not to allow… Okay, let's take on your colleague at this juncture. …to come to public, yeah. Let's take Nelson. I can hear you perfectly. Thank you. There seem to be some rave of some sort on the Internet, especially in the… They used to call it Twitter sphere, but I wouldn't know what they call it now that it is X. X-ray. So, what's your take of this Wlabalu about a man's certificate? Well, thank you very much. What we have seen at play, if you ask me, is the desperation by sole losers in an election. Because you expect that if somebody has lost an election and he or she is dissatisfied with the outcome, the most appropriate thing to do is to go to the courts to challenge the process. But rather, we have seen a situation whereby some sole losers are even taking it further than the shores of the country with the aim to tarnish the reputation of the president of the federal public of Nigeria, as well as Nigeria. Because one who expects that for anybody who is not desperate, who is not out there to malign, that when an institution of our learning that a candidate comes out to, you know, to assert that he graduated from or that he passed through the school and the institution comes out publicly to assert and even, you know, issue a statement in that regard to say X was a student between A to C number of years and graduated in this decision. I think that should, you know, rest the matter. But what do we see? We see it. Are you there now seeing? It's possible. Even outside of what is allowed under the law, you know, to undermine the process. So my brother Chris, he was talking about manipulation. If somebody can manipulate a country of 200 and about 200 million people, then that person, I think we should be equating him with God if it's possible. But I know very well that nobody can be God. So the issue at stake here is that all this certificate issue was just like chasing charges. And we have all seen that the subpoena by the court in the U.S. with the response by the university. As that all the matter today, so I expect that the next thing will be maybe, you know, these people will be asking for something else. But as far as this matter is concerned, for Nigerians who are desirous of, you know, benefiting from good governance, we are focused on what the government in the saddle has to offer us as a people. Thank you very much. Let me cross over now to Prof. I want to believe Prof. Wakubia that you have a negative background, that you are a lawyer. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've always believed. Absolutely. Fantastic. If you're a lawyer, I don't want to ask you what would be the relevance of this cross-jurisdictional legalistic or jurisprudential what relevance would any additional evidence at this juncture had to what the supreme court will look over because as an appellate court, the supreme court will no longer accept evidences but arguments based on the evidences of, correct me if I'm wrong. Let me say clearly that that's one of the perfectly, if you like, the mendacity that those who intend to overlook the moral margins of our nation are trying to trade. The question is, were issues about the certificate and academic qualifications of our president part of the prayers or pleadings at the presidential election petition tribunal. If the answer is yes, then the supreme court as an appellate court, if you like, the supreme court as an appellate court will naturally and can naturally ask for further evidence where such matters are involved. The supreme court can ask for further evidence because it's not a new prayer entirely. What they are asking for is, they can ask for, okay, you made this plea. Do you have any further information regarding this plea that you put before the court? And I want to say with the greatest sense of respect that we live in a nation where the due process and justice rather than judgment should be the practice. It was not done in master of rules who historically is one of the greatest judges of all times who said that the courts must be interested in seeing that justice is done and you find the intentions of the legislature. Let me put this in proper perspective. I listened to my brother Nelson when he talked about saw-losers. We're talking about the country, the moral practices of the country. We're talking about decency. We're talking about due process. We're talking about how a country moves forward. And as I talk to you very importantly, what we must do as a people and as a nation is to interrogate those who should pretend over our nation. What are we talking about? Please let me chisoo this in because I'm on the floor of talk. What are we talking about? We're talking about the credentials of the man who says he's president. Bola, take note of this. We're talking about the man who says he's president. The man who was elected as president. We're talking about Bola. Let's give ourselves the opportunity to, we will all have the opportunity to report whatever we decide. I'm going to say the man who says he's president. This is his way to office. He was elected by the Nigerian people. Let's let him land and I will give you ample opportunity. And that's what I'm exercising. The right to satire. The man who says he's president went to the cuff in the United States of America and said, do not release my certificate, my academic records. Bola, in our growing up, if a man challenges your academic resume, if a man challenges your credentials, what you do is happily and gleefully present those credentials to the public and before the person. Here we have a man who says he's president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and rather than joyfully and gleefully presenting his results, decides to go back to court to say, do not present my results. What does that pretend? Okay, let me give an answer. I think it's about time. I think it's about time to be fair. I think it's about time that nursing is given the opportunity to report some of the things. Nursing has made a moral argument and the moral argument is why would a nurse in the kujime want to be this aggressive in not wanting the certificate or the credentials of the schools he has attended are be released? Why would a nurse in the kujime want to do that? Okay Bola, the truth of the matter is that we all know that for the certificate of his students to be released by any institution of learning you have to pass through a process and that process is that one, nobody outside of you can make that request and if anybody outside of you is making that request he has to go to the legal procedure. You cannot, as Bola Bada, you cannot go to my university now if I become a public officer and ask the university to give you my certificate. Why will you go to the courts? I protected you when you were on. Prof, let him freely make his point please. The point here is that Aladya Tikwabubaka went to the university seeking an application to obtain President Bola Mettin whose certificate. Prof, President Bola Mettin is not a, he didn't claim to be Nagyar's president. President Bola Mettin won a presidential election in Nagyar. Which was satisfied, which I don't know. Why are you doing this? Prof is not fair, is not fair, is not fair. Please give him the opportunity. Why will you say don't release my certificates? So, like I was saying, President Bola Mettin won an election in Nigeria that was conducted by an authority authorized by law to conduct the election. And that victory has even been affirmed by another organ of government that is in charge of this food resolution which is the judicial one. So, for me, the issue at stake is that if I know for example that his Wokobiya is idle and he has not seen to do outside of a case he has said he is going to the Supreme Court and he is on a fishing expedition I will allow him to wander in the river for as long as possible. Why would you ask people for their money? I think I may want to employ my back room, a personnel to be blocking the person who is not on and let the person who is on freely make his point. He is getting a bit too pleased. One can say is that the magistrate courts gave a ruling to the school to release the certificate to Alagiya Tukwabubaka. And because President Bola Mettin who knows what the law says in America he went to a district court to say that the magistrate court didn't have the powers. He was challenging it with the legal process. It's not that he went outside of the law. It is what the law stipulates. And when the district magistrate court now reviewed that decision and gave the go ahead when President Bola Mettin went to the district court he said don't release any of my credentials except the certificate to him. But the Alagiya Tukwabubaka gave a opinion that the certificate should be released and the certificate has been released. Please let me go to Chris now. Chris, the natural question to ask at this juncture would be, former President Obama once did the same thing when some people wanted to go and I get his certificate without his consent. Apart from Obama, Trump also once did it. A number of prominent American politicians have done it in the past. Why would it then be something that is a strange phenomenon or something to bang the moral puppet on if Bola Mettin Mubu is doing just about what Obama did, what Trump did and a number of other American politicians in the American jurisdiction. Let me say, Bola, with the greater sense of respect when the issues of the best certificate of Barack Hussein Obama was a matter in the electoral process. Barack Obama did not say, he went ahead to release his best records. No, I'm telling you now, I'm telling you with due respect sir, I'm saying that there was a time when they wanted to go and get his academic records at Yale University. Ultimately, he kept him, but for a while he took it through two levels of the American legal system. That I can affirm. Bola, let me say with the greater sense of respect what Barack Hussein, the issues that were really the major challenge that Trump and his people, the Republican Party made a feast was the issues about his best records and Barack Obama wasn't just a graduate of law, Barack Obama was the leader of a black community in school and he was visibly involved in leadership processes in his law school. But that's not my point here. My point is that we know and the records are out there that the man in Astorok said that he attended a certain school that was not in existence in 1970. The school came into existence in 1974. We know that the south west college details with which he allegedly got into Chicago State University belongs to a certain lady and the social security norm like Mr. President. And let me say fundamentally and most importantly that the records of the schools that he had said throughout history that he attended have been proven to have been a major falsehood and importantly what was saying is beyond partisanship what was saying is away from losing elections what was saying is about the credibility of the office and the legitimacy of the office of president. Bola, look at this. I should be able to tell my children ten years from now that the office of president is sacrosan and they won't look at me and say but once in our history a man who has inconsistent and questionable academic records was president. They won't tell me that a man whose identity Bola, we now know that our president has three dates of birth 1952, 1954 and 1955 these are strong moral issues that affect that goes to the root of the Okay, technology has not been kind political issues these are strong moral and legitimacy issues so I think that those who tried to make it look like oh, the people who lost elections have been smart by half it's about the decency it's about the soul it's about the moral margins and the moral precincts Okay, let me like let me pass the ball now to to my brother Nelson Nelson, he keeps banging the moral pulpit I know some some people watching may want to say morality is different and he as a lawyer should know that morality is different from the law but are no reasonable human being can totally discontinance the importance of morality in the affairs of man why would you respond to that? Well my response to you Bola is that if you understand the genesis of morals and the genesis of law you recognise that it is even the morals that have been codified into laws it is the morals even that we have in the Bible that are not still that has been codified into laws so that if you take what does not belong to you without the authority of the other person there is penalty for it so when you are talking about morals and a law is in place are you going to extrapolate the morals in the law from the law itself? that is the conundrum for that is the conundrum for your calling to respond to later in this case a candidate has come up he has fulfilled the legal what he lost to police so if you have any other issue apart from that expect that you should throw it back into the public space you have seen that I like that you have got back as one of the fishing expedition and even after fishing all the waters in Chicago he couldn't even catch the cheapest fish you can get any pay so what we are saying in this case is that candidate president Bola Metzlubu vied for an election with the Nigerian people he trusted that mandate a candidate who came second went to court the court told him you have no kiss he was not satisfied with that he said he was going to break up which is allowed which is within his rights now while we were waiting for that he went on a fishing expedition on the certificate and as we speak it is in the public domain that the university has responded appropriately with facts to every grant of his request I don't know what that is so if you are looking for a president Bola Metzlubu maybe you should also take on that fishing expedition and use that as another grant okay thank you let me quickly take this to Profunwan Kobia I just want to be a bit cheeky and I know you can allow me to do that when I initially got to know you when I returned from the diaspora you were one of the most you were one of the most committed one of the most vociferous Baptists Tinumbu supporters I ever knew you were one of very few I could say used to visit body loan what then happened between the moral persona that you supported then and you were quite committed to then and the moral persona that you are ready to crucify now just wanting to reconcile this allowed let me say very strongly and importantly that I am a glory okay that's it see as I grow what determines my values as a human being is what will make society better I will say very clearly and without a provocation and which is very lucidly before us obvious before us that the man Bola met Tinumbu that we knew in 1999 2003 2007 is absolutely absolutely even in terms of competency and capacity different from the man we know today that's point number one then point number two with the facts clearly before us and the quest for a nation that works a nation centered on credibility a nation centered on capacity and the call by Nigerians for a nation that works for all I have every right like every true intellectual to reappraise my position on issues and like Gandhi said continue to learn and unlearn and become a better person as I evolve so I want to say without any modicum of doubt that the man at the seat of power today should come true like Caesar's wife rather than seek to obviate the truth Bola like I said if a question is raised about your credentials you will happily present your credentials if you are unable to happily present your credentials then there is something lurking in the dark okay let me give let me give let me give Nelson the opportunity of also rounding up like I was a bit cheeky with Professor Muakobiya Nelson let me get a bit cheeky with you too I could remember the days of Jonathan when initially some of you out of conviction worked the street to make sure that Jonathan was not robbed of his presidential opportunity that constitutional presidential opportunity but at some point when you people felt that Jonathan was dropping the ball you were banging on the mora pulpit just like Prof Muakobiya is banging on the mora pulpit now were you so losers then or is it because that you are the ones seemingly advantaged by the position of power now that you don't really reckon much with moralism absolutely not we have been irrevocably committed to truth, logic, rationality and facts and on that we are not like some process I don't want to go personal who because when they supported a candidate and because when they felt they had this entertainment mentality that I should remain the DG of a government institution or not and when that was not forthcoming they jumped ship some of us have remained consistent gentlemen technology may have just helped me to do what I ought to have done a while bit so thank you for coming I know you've made your point actually thank you very much for a good show I really want to appreciate you guys we go on a short break after this