 I'd have to learn to spin and the plan actually leaving high school was to kind of become a hammer thrower. So today's guest is a African Games champion. It started out NCAA runner-up. You are the African Games champion, the Commonwealth Games silver medalist, world finalist in 2019, world finalist at Tokyo. I know you wanted to place a little higher but okay so hey thanks so much for coming in and attending the interview. I'm always excited to talk to talented young guys and you've had a very impressive career. I remember 2019 you had an amazing year. That's I think probably one of your your biggest breakout years. COVID obviously affected everybody. It wasn't the the best situation clearly and it was tough right depending on where you were and restrictions and everything else. Obviously you still competed very well you know we're seventh in the qualifying at the Olympics right going into the final and that's a high pressure meet to say the least and we'll kind of ask you some questions about that but let's kind of take things back. You know obviously covering your you in high school were what was your PR in high school? 62-4. Okay so you and you were about 510 and 220. Have you gotten much taller since then? I have not gotten much taller. I'm about 511. Okay and another guy I coached in high school is Nick Ponzio and Nick Ponzio has actually grown believe it or not since high school so I think but Nick is was always a big big guy so 510 what do you currently weigh? 280. 280 okay so in high school you were 510 and about what 220 right okay so that definitely helps now I noticed that your pictures look fantastic you look super jacked when we see you and when you're throwing so you're about 511 and 280 so in high school you go 62 you get recruited you go to Purdue and had obviously had a modest first year right I think you were right about 16 meters or so? Yeah 16, 20, 6 in a shot. Okay and you know that first year to the 16 I've talked to a couple of other coaches and some guys I know and they said you know I don't know anybody no matter how good they are that first year is always the toughest year you know and so from there you kind of the next year it looked like you jumped up right around what high 18 meters and yeah indoors 18 and then outdoors I had one meet at 1905 so the next few years obviously you kind of deal with a lot of throwers you get to 19 that's a big jump and you were working with coach McBride at the time yeah right and so and from what I did looking at the research on you it looks like so he arrived when you arrived right so he wasn't the coach who necessarily recruited you right but you show up and then he shows up and obviously talk a little about how that process was for you know new coach first of all that happens a lot in the NCAA people get recruited and then maybe a coach you know he goes to and takes another job so talk about how that kind of worked for you two and then obviously you had a lot of success together yeah so um McBride and I like you said showed up at the same time um the coach that recruited me wound up having to leave and um after I got on campus I kind of I finally got to know that and um the track and field supervisor asked me to come into the office and meet my new throws coach which you know again I'm 18 years old I'm like I already met him like he took me on a visit and everything so um I come in and meet McBride and he kind of again like we said I was 5 10 to 20 at the time and he's like kind of looking me up and down and not too sure about what's going on so you know he told me his goals for me which were to throw um over 58 feet as a senior in the shot put and um 70 feet in the weight and then over 65 in the hammer and um the thing about that was I wanted to quit the shot put because when I threw 62 forward in high school I was gliding so I'd have to learn to spin and um the plan actually leaving high school was to kind of become a hammer thrower and we figured that the weight would be too heavy for me at that point so I throw the weight indoors you know turn turn let it go to get ready for outdoors once I'm in college but coach McBride had the idea that if I'm throwing it I gotta throw it for real so I gotta throw the shot put for real if I'm throwing the weight I gotta throw it for real and I throw in the hammer same thing I gotta throw it for real so that shifted my focus a little bit then um basically on produced campus is where I started learning to spin and that was the same time I started throwing a 16 pound ball so things didn't go very well that first year but I mean we we grinded that whole year and the plan was to be ready in 10 months after redshirting and that's what happened yeah so that first year obviously it looks like you go 59 meters roughly 5960 I think with the hammer as and that's a that's a pretty legit mark for a for a freshman now it's it's changed it's amazing how much it's changed even like the hammer and the shot right from the time you were in you know 62 feet is a great high school throw but 62 feet in 2012 was a much better high school throw you know and nowadays it's just like the level of shot globally and especially in the US right it's just it's insane so going kind of talking about some of that obviously your hammer progressions were pretty impressive as well and a lot of people may not know that obviously you've had um you know a ton of success as a shop putter finalist of the worlds in Doha again um you know I mentioned this to Zane we're when you get eighth place you didn't just get eighth place at the world championships it was like the best world championships ever right like the marks the marks across the board crazy deep like you know the same thing it's just been absolutely insane so then you were fourth at the world cup in 2018 and that's the Astrova meat which is always looks like a really cool meat yeah this is a fun one yeah and I and I think that it's really cool I'm gonna just I'm living vicariously through through you and all these other guys because I love the places you get to go right it's really cool um so all African games champion commonwealth you got to go down to the Gold Coast in Australia and second there behind Tom Walsh obviously kind of just taking a couple steps back you grow up in the US your parents are from Nigeria when did you kind of decide that you know because I think a lot of throwers there well not a lot of throws but there's a number of throwers that kind of get in this situation do I do I represent the US or do I represent Nigeria um or whatever country when did you start to one think about representing Nigeria and then two you know what was the process like to actually make that decision and do it yeah so um I thought I'd be able to go on to the professional level around my junior year in college or maybe a little bit before that and um coach green the head coach was um one of the Bahamian national coaches and he had professionals he worked with Veronica Campbell Brown and you know he he of Regina George so he'd seen collegians make that leap and to him was a no-brainer we had um Chris Huffins on the staff also as the jumps coach and multi-coach he was a big bronze medalist in 96 so he kind of saw something in me and then coach bring bright himself it was with me through training daily it was like you know get your mind around moving on from college to the professional level so those talks were happening from like sophomore to junior year and um I think the conversation was like you said do you represent the U.S. or my parents you know home country of Nigeria and we looked at America and at the time there were like five 21 meter guys which we figured that's what it would take and um the hammer also I was at 72 meters but I would need a three meter jump so we shifted the focus more to shot put later on and um we saw that America would not need me quite as much as Nigeria would appreciate to have me um so it wasn't really a hard choice and I was born a Nigerian citizen so I didn't do a bunch of like paperwork and me okay it was just like all right cool I have two passports let me use this one oh yeah it was pretty it was it was definitely a little easier transition so now you know I'm going to take a one step back you mentioned too that when my bride met you kind of looked you up and down you're this 510 220 guy um I'm sure you were pretty low body fat and jack 220 though right especially if you're throwing 62 in the glide that's a that's an impressive glide when he says to you you know the goal is to get you to throw 58 feet by the time you're a senior one what's immediately in your head and you're thinking good or you're thinking man I'm going to throw a hell of a lot farther than 58 feet no um I wanted to be done with the shot put oh that's right yeah yeah yeah I it's not I didn't like the event it's so my coach in high school was um John Giuseppe Ramon and he was a Frenchman but he was raised in the Ukraine and um he only knew the linear technique all he did was glide and the way I glided was pretty much European it was you know short long wide base stuff like that that's not really applicable to the rotation so my mind was pretty much crystallized on like that's how I could get the ball the farthest and the 16 would not you know I I couldn't do anything with the 16 that was my 18 year old brain you know thinking that especially after throwing 19 you know in high school so I was ready to be done with it and coach Mcbide is like hey I want you to throw over 58 feet so he's probably thinking 60 but didn't want to scare me yeah I don't mind how the hell I can't throw this thing 50 feet so um it it shocked me and I kind of left that meeting um a little bit spooked because then I had to you know I'm here now it's a real thing my recruiting process was really short so you know basically everything was thrown at me super fast including some of those big boy goals so left me a little bit spooked but um I think it was up to me to figure out you know how to get my mind around it and you know Monday was practice so so that's cool now that said so hammer was really kind of your your real love then yeah and that's another thing so the reason I picked up the weight was so I can throw the hammer in high school okay coach looked at me it was like my high school coach looked at me I was like look you're you're a small guy but you have a lot of like good attributes so you'd probably be a hammer guy eventually but if you look at my high school um rundown I threw for one season okay yeah so I wouldn't say I love but it was kind of what I was groomed towards got you okay so then obviously as your you and coach McBride start working together and um you start to make the jump you go to 19 meters now right so you redshirted your first year so 2013 you hit a PR of 19 but you had been kind of averaging it looks like in the 17 meter range and then boom you hit the nice you hit the big jump talk about that that's always the that's always a really great moment when you're kind of like hitting and hitting and all of a sudden it's not just a PR it's a pretty significant it's like a meter and a half PR yeah so um it was kind of a rough outdoor season up to that point and I think it happens to everybody like every year it doesn't matter your talent level where you transition from the big plastic ball and the wooden rings to the metal all that all that stuff so this was the first time I'd seen that as a collegiate athlete or you know throwing the 16 pounder they actually kind of just clicked right now but um because I'm doing it right now with the you know with my season but anyway um so that transition was a little bit jarring compared to like doing it with the glide um as a high schooler so if you look at indoors I was still I was throwing 18s and stuff like that and I had 61 eight or so be my season best like 1866 but then that transition outdoor was harder than I imagined um but it was after the big 10 meet where I didn't make the final but I was watching some of the discus guys so we had Dan Block from Wisconsin and Chad right from Nebraska and these guys were bigger guys you know um and there were discus throwers but they also threw shot foot right and in order to hold themselves in the ring they used more wrap than a lot of us shot putters would do transitioning from that eight foot ring to the seven foot ring so I and I mean coach invited mention separation the past two years but I had never seen it to that degree especially at a championship meet where I'm trying to do my best to score so I kind of took that and like dove in head first at practices like trying to use more and more wrap okay I think it was like a couple weeks span from conference to the regional meet where I put the wrap into where I can use it and be powerful on my strike and all of a sudden I started training at 18 again then every throw was like 60 feet and all that was coming up was regionals so opened up like 1866 and then 1876 and then the 1905 and that was the big difference for me it's like I was even when I was growing indoors I was pretty stiff because I couldn't understand what I was supposed to do um and then when I saw some of the bigger guys really use that wrap got you put it into play yeah and and so yeah I I had kind of brushed over it yeah you had a you had a really good indoor season and then obviously outdoor was the rougher transition like what do you do when you've been throwing 60 feet and all of a sudden you throw you know 1685 so now you're throwing 54 feet right and then how do you what do you do and that was one of my questions that I had lined up for most of the throwers you know when you hit these roadblocks and this is when you're a younger guy right because now I'm sure you can reflect on your older more experience you've competed internationally competed worlds you competed the Olympics I mean you are like one of the premier dudes now um looking back at that when you're talking to a younger guy or a coach what do you do where's your mindset when you're like I've been throwing 60 feet I come up I'm throwing 54 55 and change how you know that's what I would definitely call right you get into a little slump it's going to happen to every thrower at every point what do you do to get yourself out of that slump and what is what do you and your coach do to get out of that slump yeah so that a coach is very valuable I think in letting you know that things are okay um but I think a good tool is like especially now in the age of social media um people tend to record more and store more videos and you know things like that so I think it's a useful tool if you have some of those training videos and stuff and that's why all the videos I post are just training tools it's the ones I look the prettiest I'll post them online but um look back at some of those good days and understand that you know two weeks ago you were firing right and then now you may not you're you're in a slump um understand that your body didn't change very much in that two weeks all that's happening is maybe you're not hitting quite as clean as you've been doing or you're not executing as well as you've been doing right but it's something that physically you still can do and I think it's easy to say that but having some of those tools like the maybe a training log or you know some videos from practice would really help especially a younger thrower now what do you do from a mental standpoint you know your coach helps you through and then I'll kind of lead this into a little bit about talking a little bit more about kind of your progression and again how you and coach McBride work together because I think when I was doing my research on you you again you have this year you you have you have just get progressively better and better and the distances are going up but then come your senior year here comes another big jump and what did you guys change to make that jump so um when I started going 20 that a lot of that was mental and it was the idea of again we had a conversation coach McBride and I um about the Olympics coming up that senior year so that was 2016 and we're reassessed everything so at the time I'm going to shot put I'm thrown 1940s 1950 there about in the hammer I'm at 72 high and to be an Olympic shot putter you needed 2050 which is about one meter versus 75 meters in the hammer right which you know is like it's two plus meters and it would be easier it sounds funny but it would be easier to get one meter um in shot put as opposed to several meters in the hammer um so what we did was we just got bigger and stronger and um and then we just we dialed in the mechanics a little bit so you might be able to see like a bigger sweep out of the back um I really don't have very level shoulders but more level than in the previous years and then we emphasize the strike at the end so a lot of half turns better half turns and um we just we basically took shot but I wouldn't say more seriously but we focused more on that as opposed to focusing more on the hammer so even as also on the weight we'd be geared more towards the hammer outdoors and stuff like that like that was the premier event we just flip flopped it so shopper became a premier event while not um letting the hammer and weight go completely right so now that year obviously um you wind up second at the NCAA championships you get on a really pretty nice hot streak regionals you're like 2020 you hit another which I think at the time was your you had tied your PR right was 2037 your PR so then your second you hit that and then um you got another like relatively local regional meet and then it's USATF there's some others open meet right and you go 2045 at this point I'm assuming you were trying to chase the Olympic standard right yeah and you felt what it was five centimeters short that year yep exactly five centimeters yeah that's got to be really disappointing it was a heartbreaking you know just yeah it was it was tough but it was one of the things where I gave it everything I had and um I'm also I'm pretty proud of myself with how I I took everything so my focus was the shot but obviously but I still wanted to throw the weight for I still wanted to throw the hammer far and especially on the team I think the kids need to understand that like you're playing a part so you have your personal goals at the end of the day especially if you're on scholarship or anything like that like you still have to produce for the team right I did a pretty good job of producing for the team like several medals at the conference meeting stuff like that but what was eight to ten points you know and um after that was all said and done that chase for the standard was like two weeks where it was like just me time trying to get it and I got within five centimeters but at the time I was bitter like I wanted to quit the sport but I talked with my parents and like I was back next fall okay yeah right so you were just like super young disappointed guy because really you came off your second at the NCAAs I think you were a big 10 field athlete of the year right because you had won the hammer and and you were only one of I think two athletes at the NCAAs that was actually throwing the shot and the hammer yeah unbelievable shout out to Denzel coming in yeah both right later on but they changed the format so they they used to mix up the events and try to make them as accessible for you know big teams but then they started to go by gender so it's like several men's events then several women's events then several men's events and hammer and shot wound up on the same day and I think the rationale is that like it's not a common double right that was the year when they started to put them like hammers in the early afternoon and shot put is a few hours later and that was a hard hard double yeah that that is definitely impressive again knowing that you you threw 2037 what do you think you would have thrown had you not thrown the hammer a few hours before 2050 that's what I figured I thought about that and I'm also I look at when I threw it I was in the last round oh wow yeah so that was it was kind of like a guts you know like a gut check performance kind of thing but I was happy with it you know coach is happy with it at the time and but I do think the hammer took something out of me and the reason I say so is that um I started to cramp right like in the warm-ups of the shot put and that's broken son for hours like you know and um you really couldn't avoid that so I started cramp and then on the very last one even like to save it like it was a struggle but I happened to I saw myself was in the ring at the very end of it and then I'm jumping and celebrating at the end but um yeah I think I would have went a little bit farther like I don't think it's out of the realm to to imagine 2050 or so right those extra yeah 13 centimeters is probably easy to obtain with some with a fresh uncramping body probably yeah okay in 2016 you actually it looked like that was your first year internationally you went over to Nigeria went to the national championships and you were the Nigerian champ right yeah and so how was it so at this point you know are you you're second at NC's I remember god what was it it was at 2019 it was 2019 and I think USA's were in Des Moines and a good friend of mine is uh Doug Reynolds he's a coach now at Florida State he was a Bama was a head coach over in New Mexico so I'm sitting down with him Rachel Dinkoff and then Josh out with two days sitting and we're at that barbecue joint you know that famous barbecue joint in Des Moines and I remember having him just talking with his coach because he had just had an amazing year and he was looking about turn in pro and doing all that so for you kind of in that situation you're you're a few years older so now it's 2016 and is this when you said had you already decided that you were gonna represent Nigeria at that point or was that like still kind of you know making decision what are you gonna do yeah um I was I was sure about that point I was pretty certain okay the transition but yeah we went to that meet Josh and I went and um I don't care how he says it we both went and we both quit and then I came back to Nigeria and then he came back to America okay because he was he was considering that right yeah yeah yeah but he like the meet was so bad I saw him actually last summer we did a couple of meets together in Europe and it was it was so bad like it's hard to explain it like the the ring looked like the surface of Mars like craters everywhere wow they waited till it started to downpour in the rain before the comp even started like it was it was an awful meet and neither of us show like what we're capable of so like we were frustrated and embarrassed a little bit and um yeah but at that point we were both done and then you know he came back and but he was still in college he had another year of um college left so I had a good year and then after that went to the training center and then um yeah I just I came back and um kept representing Nigeria right and I'd read a little bit you know kind of again when we're looking things up it that it looks like there are definitely some challenges with you know some of the Federation so talk about like um you know it just looks like like I said I'd read there just some different things like speed bumps if you will and then um so what uh you know so you both quit and then you decide to come back so what made you come back and clearly you know you're all over the world now which has got to be a really cool thing and we'll talk a little bit about that just that you know I think a lot of people don't realize there is an actual pro circuit for throwers you know and track and field in general but it's clearly internationally based I mean there's only a few really pro meets in the US and everything is all over it now as you're as a Nigerian athlete you're getting to probably hit more meets in Africa right hitting different countries and then obviously that's part of the Commonwealth so you that includes the Commonwealth games so you decide to go back how how has it been to be representing Nigeria um well it is decent it like you said there are some some road bumps along the way and stuff and um it's it's a third world country so track is not really a big priority like whereas in the US um it's very important how well the athletes do and it's not just in saying that it's in the preparation so you have things like financial support you have camps you have teams that bring coaches overseas and things like that that um facilitate the biggest performances especially when they count so you know with our team you don't really see that quite as much um the talent is definitely there but you know some of the infrastructure may you know may need a little bit of work right but as far as like representing Nigeria you know I am proud that's that's my parents home country and I've always wanted to do it you know my first name is Chukwibuka my last name's Anekwachi a lot of people ask me why I represent Nigerian I'm like well can you pronounce my name right like if my name was like John Williams or something like it would be obvious why I'd represent the US but it's like I am full-blooded Nigerian and I just thought like it'd be a good tribute to my parents my family you know if I were to use my talents where they would be I think needed is a weird word but like I guess more appreciated whereas America just churns out the 21 meter plus throwers of 70 footers and you know like Nigeria doesn't quite have that factory quite yet so I thought I'd make more of a difference here than I did there you know cool and and I know this is a really big question but um let's see let me preface it with if I research this correctly you're the first Nigerian athlete to make the men's shot put final at the Olympics is that correct yeah yeah I mean that's a that's that's a hell of a you know accomplishment and there's been some really great throwers I know discus wise there's been some really phenomenal throwers wasn't it um was it Krishna Koye wasn't he I remember him he was a pro football player but he was a thrower too yep yeah so you know uh the Nigerian nightmare right wasn't it like that or something like that and uh played in the NFL and all that but so do you think uh with that kind of attention has it brought more attention to throwing in Nigeria I would hope so um throwing is not huge in Nigeria unfortunately the sprint events are the more premier events and then the jumps come second like throwing is like a distant you know redheaded stepchild so I think I think in America it's brought more attention which is a great thing um for athletes that are kind of in my situation where you're a dual citizen and you look at an opportunity to represent your parents home country but as far as like in Nigeria itself like you know it's a developing country so I think it's more important things to worry about than athletics gotcha okay that's a fair fair answer okay so now let's talk about uh when you get into like 2018 um this is when again another big jump and this is where you were really pretty consistent 2018 and 2019 I remember posting different things on our Instagram on on you all over the place and uh I think you know that's when it was like damn this guy's really really on fire um you have a good a really good 2018 but 2019 I would say is definitely that big jump right 2180 you're like strongly what we're we're pushing 72 feet at that point and I just remember everywhere you were going it was like 70 feet 70 feet like you were just crushing so how how what um at this point um when did you in coach McBride because coach McBride took right I mean he's got his career and he has to move on I think he went to Kentucky right and so how did um you know kind of what transpires at that point is that the first year like you got was it 2018 that he took the Kentucky job yeah okay so he goes there in the fall and then that next year were you guys still working remotely did you work in Kentucky for a little bit or is at that point that you kind of just started you know kind of taking charge of your own training and whatnot uh yeah so he left um and I stayed in Westlop yet and the new coach Jermaine Jones came in um at the end of the year and like dead in the summer and um we immediately started working together okay and so with how did you know so again all through this point you're just getting bigger and stronger right you're getting you know bigger and stronger you didn't get taller right and that was one things I learned I was like damn this guy's you know it's really impressive obviously um speed and strength have to be what you have to harness if you're not tall you're gonna have to be faster so how did you guys you know what is it just the logical progression of training or what kind of technical changes start to you know occur at that point yeah that was most of it um just the logical progression getting bigger getting stronger um and then just like I did with coach McBride through our college where we paid more attention to the fundamentals you know if you're rotating rotate properly be more efficient through the technique we just continue that progression with Jermaine Jones and um more emphasis on things like a South African for like linear drive um and then I also took more volume of non-reverse throwing so I can find the ground and try to use that more to my advantage because being a smaller thrower I tend to be like a little bit jumpy through positions and I still do that till today right and I think more volume with non-reverse throwing helps kind of dial that in and you know work from the ground up and really transfer as much force as I could so those I think were the two big changes but like it just it was a continuation of what I've been doing since college. Good so I love the fact that you say fundamentals because obviously for people who are watching there's going to be coaches and they think I have found you know it's almost like it's the like the perfection of the fundamentals right that's really like you're so good fundamentally that's what takes you to that next level it's not some big secret I mean clearly to throw the 16 pound shot the strength requirements to be able to move fast and transfer your speed to the implement is really critical and strength is going to be a major variable but there's plenty of guys that are really strong and they can't throw that far because they don't have the technique so I just as a coach love the fact that you say that now you're also coaching is that correct are you still coaching? Yeah so I volunteer I produce still so I work with the kids I've worked with the kids since like 2016 and I also coached at the local high school. Okay and how do you find that working with have you found that being a coach yourself has benefited you as an athlete? Ideally it would but the problem is the amount of hours. Yes minus that just we'll take the context because yes being on your feet being somewhere and having to put that time in is definitely a deterrent to you know it's a you know it hits you a little bit on your performance in your training but from the standpoint of having to go through the technique and relay the technique has that process helped you as a throw? I think it has because you can learn a lot by teaching and that's where you get in that and I've seen that firsthand so the the other part of it is it works both ways so now whatever I tell the kids to do it's something that I've done at some stage in my career right vice versa and sometimes you forget you know like I guess you forget some of the things that you should keep in contact with and working with novice athletes or athletes that need to be told and reminded can remind you of things that you've worked on in the past so I think that link like it's almost like a two-way relationship and I've experienced that so good yeah yeah I would I think the fundamentals you know I've it's always interesting that you know I've found I've obviously I've worked with my my open guys that are going to like us championships and stuff and that's what I always find is the difference I have I've had experience with certain athletes where they were like okay I totally get it and then there's guys well I think I need to be doing something else it can't be that simple and it's like no it really is that simple and you're not doing that simple thing very well and that's why I'm having you do it and sometimes that works out and sometimes you know they're like I gotta go find something else and it's like fundamentally you're off you're out of position and it's funny that so I'm glad to hear you say that because I think that is such a critical thing so this probably there's probably been better throws this was one of your throws from um the Olympics okay so this is so here's first of all you kind of are familiar with our six pillar system so this is what we do and a lot of people don't totally understand our system which clearly I gotta do a better job as a business but um so because some people say oh it's a it's a factory and they're trying to make everybody throw the same it's like no what it is is it's a way of looking at something that happens really fast teaching the core fundamental mechanics and then our six pillars are about assessing those and then finding an individual formula so the system's actually about how to create an unlimited number of combinations to help all kinds of athletes so it teaches and and then it helps create a personal formula so that's what it is so this is what we do and we just say generally from a mechanical standpoint um these are the things so we call pillar one we're setting everything up you're wind up you know to get to that point we're locking at level shoulders hips locking up right to create that torque and tension so there's a lot of really important things a wind up isn't just an arbitrary movement it's setting up the whole path so this is our pillar one so we go to pillar two now here the pillar two so we go here we call this pillar three that's where we drop it in and applying speed it looks like right you were kind of cutting a little short this was at the Olympics okay so pillar four is the transition where we're going to be looking at to get that wrap in place right we want to try to stay as level as possible especially I feel like in the shot put if you get that elbow up you're tilting the axis right you're not going to rotate as fast into the finish so when we get to here we move to pillar five that's what we call locking down power the start of the power position we break the power position into two points because we're going to kind of set it up and we don't want to start throwing too early we want to be able to move into the finish and then that's your pillar six and that's where we want to try to stay level try to stay on the ground longer like you said and you know and then obviously as we come through we'll just have our recovery what tell us about your throw I'll kind of do it that's like I said the six pillars for us are and again we'll teach it and we're going to teach the core positions and we're going to look at positions because I always say throwing truth really really is an unnatural sport and then the idea is to put the motion together and make it fluid and so you train parts and then you put it all together and make it flow and that's kind of how we address it so for you what are some of the key technical points of your throw so what do you think about in the start do you have any specific processes going through your head and if you were like communicating to young athletes what would you say in the back of the ring I'm trying to get weight over to the left leg right so I'm winding up I'm thinking about loading up the left leg so you're trying to load right here right thinking about putting it yeah yeah and then at this point I always call this the entry so for us we really think about we want to create a big hinge and a long radius with the left what what do you think about it this stage of the throw yeah so it's mostly about an efficient left side so get most of my mass out to the left and open the left arm as wide as I can so that the right leg follows now when you think of the speed section this is where we call it drop it in speed obviously I'm assuming that's kind of what what do you think about here are you actively driving off your left and then you know how do you think about your sweep and your balance arm at this point so that that changes with I guess my health because I deal with some pretty bad sciatica that's actually I do yesterday morning and it used to be a big part of my throw to drive hard off the left to create that speed but in recent years I had to use more of the right leg to get myself out of the back of the ring so it kind of changes sometimes the left hip will feel okay and then I drive hard and I could create more speed but in recent years has been more about getting the right around and just getting the left back down to the front gotcha and so you talked earlier on about you know one of the big points when your technique started to jump up was the rap it was interesting you know I interviewed Zane Weir and he was like I go he has a really nice rap and and I was like what do you you know what does he think about he's like I just feel it and I was like that's a perfect example of guys who are just really talented right now I was trying to point out like this guy's clearly extremely talented because he's super feeling based and a lot of people just don't have that I think all of you guys that are at this level the top 20 guys in the world in the men's shot or any of the events for that matter all have that ability to feel some probably a little bit more than others for you talking about like your rap here it looks like like this looks like might have been part of the issue you were a little off balance here and then so the rap wasn't as dynamic would you agree with that no I was really dehydrated that me yeah this like I wasn't at good health in this meet so it wouldn't be of too much value to break down this particular throw okay so in general though when you have you when you focus on the rap do you is are you what's your thought process on that we'll just forget that this wasn't a great throw but just generally speaking how do you like what are you trying to you know think about and you kind of touched on a little bit earlier but I just kind of curious and yeah so I'm just I try to set up the separation out of the back and I want to lead in with the right and the main thing I'll do is lead in with the right when the right makes contact get the left down ASAP so whatever difference in the angle of the shoulders and the hips I want to maintain that I don't really work on adding more through the middle okay maintain when I established out the back gotcha and then so for you what do you like to think about through the finish well as soon as I land I want a strong left side so I kind of split my body into vertically so I want to get the left side super strong and then work down to the ground and then the right rotates forward and then those things will give me a little bit more of a natural trajectory on the ball so you were dehydrated and this is a really important point you know you you came out in the qualifying how did you feel in the qualifying you had a pretty decent throw 21 16 I believe yeah I felt great qualifying but some weird stuff happened with the team camp or so that the qualifying was on Tuesday and then Wednesday you know I mean meetings I'm walking up and down Tokyo and stuff had to address this person address that person and the Tokyo sun is like 94 degrees like daily from 4 30 a.m all the way until the evening and just on my feet all day trying to get a uniform to wear and stuff like that so there was a whole bunch of like bullshit that to kind of deal with on the Wednesday and then when I woke up on Thursday I was like yeah that's it's gonna be a rough one gotcha so and you know those are the things that people I remember years ago so I'm old and there was a legendary throws coach you know Art Venegas so Art was my my college coach for a few years I was a small skinny guy right and so I wound up going to Juco and then there so when I was coaching with Art I remember looking at meets and you know you would see some results and they were kind of like down and then people you know kids on the team somebody would say oh you know I could have done this or that and then I just remember it was just one of those weird things your coach says and you kind of remember in arts like unless you're at that meet and you don't you know if you're not there you don't know what's transpired so you don't know why those marks are where they are and if they're down across the board there's probably something that's influencing everybody and then you just never know what's going on with that particular athlete and it was always a just a really quick insightful thing like and that's a perfect example so people see you have a you had a good qualifying and then you know you qualified seventh and then the next day you're dehydrated which would explain why I think you're you had a I think of what a foul on your first throw you had a and then you had a couple of okay throws and that would kind of fall in line still it's nice to know that you were at the Olympic final you know and that that's a hell of an accomplishment so going back to like Doha and you were eighth in Doha how was that competition and obviously you had a good qualifying and a good final so talk a little bit about you know that a lot of people don't understand like the championship meets are really high stress like qualifying is high stress you have an auto standard I remember you know I was talking to Joe Kovacs and he he said on a couple of different occasions like he hates the qualifying day right it's like once that's over it's like then you can actually like let it loose but talk about that when you go to Doha it's your first world championship and you know it's obviously a hell of a world championship right I mean so talk about qualifying and then talk about what it's like to be in the final yeah um the qualifying we know the rules so the plan was for a little bit better that mark came out they said um they wanted 20 90 which I thought and it was like you do it or you don't that kind of thing so I went there with the idea of throwing 21 meters any given day and it just it lined up that way so um it was high pressure but at the same time like I was pretty confident at that point especially with the year leading up to it that like within three throws I could throw 21 meters and then you know it's the meet was so late it was October so it wasn't like I was messing with the technique or anything like that right so I think those factors um worked in my favor and the other thing was um it it was kind of um lower pressure because we already had the African games and all that stuff so it was like just another championship if that makes sense yeah so you you you practice competing by competing and I just competed so much at that point like it's the world usually feels just another one at that point gotcha so and when you get to the final you you go uh you open up well 21 18 so like what goes through your head at that point you're like oh yeah like I'm feeling good or and and then you know looking at it as well um you have Joe you know or was it Tom Walsh right wasn't it his first throw that he went 2290 yeah so what do you think it at that point like what's it like to be at that point where you like you're with those guys but at the same time like this guy it's like what the hell right that's like huge yeah so um I think any of us are trying to get our best throw um in that moment so you know if Philip from Croatia through 30 meters it's like you're still trying to get your own yeah good so um I think after the fact like you know you'd sit around and you see it's like yeah that was a good comp but in the moment you're just like okay gotta get the next one gotta get the next one yeah so it was cool because you know where shop put is huge right now but it's kind of weird because like nobody cares at the same time whereas like somebody can run a decent 60 and get the most press you know that you know you see in the court so it was cool that what we were doing was getting a lot of attention in that um that stadium yeah and it just it kind of shows you how much has to happen for anybody to give a crap and that's you know three 75 foot throws and like every single throw in the final above 21 meters and it's like it's good but at the same time it's like damn like so okay so what does the crowd want now you know what I mean right so it's a mixed basket so it was exciting like to be a part of the best shot comp ever yeah like damn like 75 and it's like okay good job I think that was pretty far so now you're at the point where it's like okay so that guy threw like was it a world record or not you know yeah while he said 100 or 200 gets a lot of love so yeah no that's and then I mean that's partially why we do what we do which you know that's a big part obviously I have a coaching system that's designed to help more coaches and athletes learn which we're we're doing a better and better job of you know we've got thousands of athletes around the world now that are getting coached using our stuff and we've helped a lot of guys become really amazing coaches it's really a cool thing to see but obviously it's just kind of the the era right I think there is more information but we need to get more exposure what do you think would bring more exposure to the sport at this point because I'm about I'm six years in uh I don't um I really don't know I think it's just I think it's over with I don't know it's it's hard to say because like a lot of people are thinking maybe it's a world record and it's like like that hasn't done it and um the level of talent is through the roof now amongst my peers and like that hasn't done it changing the rules of the the events it's not going to do it that's no so I think more exposure okay you know it's going to sound very basic but more advertising yeah no that's it's more exposure yeah were you you were in um Zagreb too weren't you yeah and how is that that meat looks really awesome yeah it's a fun meat it's um it's at night so those meats tend to be a lot more fun the crowd is I mean right up against the ring so um you get a lot of interaction and stuff unfortunately it was pouring rain when I went but it was still a fun meat I still I feel like 20 95 like the rain that's a nice throw and um at the end we have this big like lamb dinner so like all the throwers um the donors and everybody gets together meat directors and we sit and just have a good time so that's awesome on meats I've been to very cool okay so strength numbers everybody wants to know this is the meathead part of the interview how how much you bench bench my best bench is a 525 okay yeah I mean I swear to god it's like everybody can bench 500 pounds now it's like unbelievable except Ryan right now he's well into the fives is he well into the fives I should probably know yeah is he's who is it uh Joe's the freak right yeah Joe and Romani those are the guys that are the over six I mean Joe and Romani are just like giant right I mean Joe is just like he's such a like he's not the tallest guy right I think Joe said he's 511 you guys probably about the same height I think Joe said he's 510 and three quarters is what he said aren't we all his so so but he has long ass arms for a for a guy this height he does so um okay so 525 bench what do you squat my best squat was 825 um and the thing is like I normally I don't test those very often so I do think they're like much more difficult or like speed oriented with like accommodating resistance bands and chains so yeah yeah I could probably do a lot more than those numbers but those are the numbers that I tested at okay um clean clean was from 2015 180 you did 185 180 230 for reps on the high pull okay so that's all but you did 185 kilos yeah yeah okay and that was back in 2015 yeah you were just a child back then and okay what about snatch do you snatch and jerk uh I've done a snatch um 140 okay so pretty respectable and then um what about jerks overhead strengths big for shot putters I'm sure like overhead presses and jerks and stuff like that 227 kilos yeah that's pretty big and then what about like do you do strict militaries I gotta believe like overhead strengths big for rotational throws a lot of people I don't think realize that the strength that you have to have to pull or push you have to be super vertically strong here the stronger you are here the more you can be able to rotate and punch um so what kind of uh what's like a typical workout for you for just what's what's your training kind of lifting blocks look like and on how many days a week do you lift and kind of how do you do your splits and stuff yeah so it's basically it's really simple it's kind of um similar to the conjugate style so I'll go heavy upper on the Monday okay the date is usually on a Wednesday heavy lower and then dynamic effort on the third day which is usually Friday okay yeah and you're just doing three days or do you do a fourth like a dynamic lower too but sometimes it'll be I'll split up the dynamic effort so it's like max on a Monday dynamic effort to be on Thursday and then the max on a Tuesday dynamic effort on a Friday but right now it's just three days and that's to accommodate my coaching got you and then do you find it what's your lifting like throughout the season do you when you're in season three days a week still yeah yeah and that works better with all the travel that we have to do yeah I would imagine and uh it seems as though that's a good way in general right especially with travel and just but recovery I think a lot of young athletes get into the habit you know I remember I'd have a really well designed program for my high school athletes four-day lift pretty you know pretty extensive lots of throws and that's a lot of volume for a young guy but they're younger and they typically recover faster and then I find out you know they're going to the gym and they're adding in more bench press and they're adding in and I'm like guys you can't train six days a week you know it doesn't your body's neck you're going to you're going to tap out so how long have you been doing a three-day lift did that and at what point did that change it used to be four or five and did it drop down to three or it was in some periods it was four days a week we but we found the best results with three days a week and my original strength coach Ross Bowser worked at Westside and he's you know he kind of knows conjugate in and out right so funny thing is like regardless what I did I did more of a try phasic style from like 2016 through 2018 but it always comes back to like conjugate based on conjugate principles so I say that to say that we established that way back in like 2012 and we've made some variations over the years but it's usually three or four days more good days okay and what about I know this is odd since you're talking conjugate I always I find it very interesting I've had good success with my athletes utilizing a lot of that it makes a lot of sense what about how much jump work and stuff do you add into your training for not too many jumps I'll put them in like on a lower body dynamic day so in between outside do some jumps and the other thing is like if I want to stay fresh or like on a plio day so the Tuesday and Thursdays would be more plio oriented so like I'm not just like sitting on the couch that's when I would do some explosive throwing or some jumping and just like general athletic stuff that's when the speed ladder comes out okay I do that walking with a sled so I put the jumps in on those two days very cool do you and what about sprint work and that sort of thing sprints I'm normally pretty wary of them because like that's an opportunity to hurt yourself so I throw those in at the end of like two of my three throwing sessions a week okay yeah right and is it and I'm sure it's not is it all out or is it like 80 percent that's it like yeah they're about 80 percent maybe even less and the distances aren't too long I find a good way to keep yourself safe is maybe put a sled on and that's gonna kind of rate limit you a little bit so but one thing you don't want to do as a near 300 pound person is go into a dead sprint yeah especially if you're you're a powerful guy like myself and my peers like that's that's a way to unravel really quickly yeah 100 okay so that being said on your peer group you're part of an interesting time like you said this has been I mean an absolute phenomenal time for the men's shot I mean throwing as a whole it's great to see what's going on with like American hammer throwers our discus throwers have had good success but we're still got to get that kind of I think that international tweak level where they're hitting those same performances and I have my opinions on that I think it just has more to do with logistics and the way it kind of goes is kind of my my thought on it like they're just I feel like most of the European throwers in the discus get more total meets than American discus or is where I feel like American shot putters get a lot of meets so that's just but obviously it's it's really an amazing time what who who is your like who's your favorite throwers of like today's throwers from a technical standpoint I don't know that's a hard one that's a hard question to answer I don't know now what's it like when you're competing against uh you know I mean I know it's just another competition and I know it's always about trying to perform at your best but like when you're you're there and obviously Ryan is just I mean he's he's obviously the greatest ever but it's his total volume I always say this his total volume of like 22 plus and 22 50 meter throws is just like insane so what's it like when you're you know you're competing against Ryan and he's gotten even bigger I mean the guy is he was like kind of skinnier in 2016 right now he's just like he's like a big man now he was a tall good size you know definitely was not a small guy but now he's like just massive um so what's it like when you're competing against Ryan and and when and obviously some of the things he does technically yeah I definitely don't watch him closely technically but um I mean it's just another me I mean he's a better I've seen him through the years yeah but each other since the college years so right that's just another me we do our best and then we cheer each other on that's cool yeah because you guys obviously were um you were did he graduated in 16 as well well 15 was his last year of outdoor eligibility right and he had an indoor year like 16 yeah so that's cool you guys have definitely known each other a long time yeah um okay let's see what uh any other things uh mental focus I had come across a little bit of information you had you had just made some quick comment about kind of the the mental aspect of throwing I think that's a huge part and a lot of things that that's obviously where a good coach really comes in to kind of keep you in perspective and stuff but any kind of big points on like the importance of mental focus and just kind of mental like like just general mindset for success and throwing um yeah for me I think it's huge if you recognize moments for what they are so if there's a big competition you got to treat it as a big competition and start getting ready for it you know not the week of not the month of but in the fall you know understand the magnitude of it so that when it sneaks up on you and they always do sneak up on you but it's not a big shock at least it's something that's like it's like a dress another dress rehearsal for what you've been prepping for so I think that the mental aspect you know is is key as far as getting yourself ready for the moment because all of these competitions I tell the high schoolers all the time and even the college kids like you go one at a time it's a performance more than anything it's not a head-to-head battle right so you get yourself ready for the big performance you go one at a time so that you give your best when you can or as as best you can when it counts so yeah the biggest thing is just prep on time and acknowledge the moments for what they are right now you know that said too as you get into that thing and that's the that's that real uh interesting line that a thrower you know rides right you've always got to be kind of keeping it together right so because it doesn't really matter what somebody does but at the same time there are those moments right where it's like you and another guy and you're kind of going back and forth how does that how do you how do you enjoy that aspect when it is kind of a slugfest where it's like you hit a throw they hit a they go five ten centimeters more now you go up another you know you take the lead that kind of thing talk about like that real fast yeah go I mean being neck and neck with somebody is always fun um it's fun in the moment and it's even more fun afterwards you know because I have not met a single shopper that's salty after the fact like we're all I think we're all good guys and um like I've edged out a few people like I think I edged out two in a day by a centimeter at Tucson so like funny stuff like that happens all the time if I drank a cup of water or if you know if he didn't slip on the sidewalk something like you know all those things come into play and you're talking about centimeters in a sport like shop put so um it's always fun but being in the moment all you have to do is execute and sometimes you feel like you can knock down a brick wall based on how training is going on how the throws are going and sometimes you can see that momentum in another guy so it's up to you to assess the situation you know and live up to it in that spot but you only have three or six throws to do it you know so I guess that sense it becomes kind of like uh almost like a contact sport where it's you're going you know but um those are always fun even if you got edged out like nobody likes to lose but it's like like damn I gave him my best and that guy you know just right you know he earned it that kind of thing yeah for sure um okay so let's see uh usually we kind of just do we talk about all this different stuff and then it's just like what about you just as Chuck the person what do you what do you like to do in your spare time are you a movie guy do you like to read music yeah so um just in general I like I play some video games here and there okay is it in my music taste I think if anybody has seen Mary been like watch the videos I post like my music taste is all over the place um which is good I can agree with anybody on something right and then I read online but I like to like read obscure stuff like weird animal facts for that reason like I'm a big Jeopardy fan like that's my favorite besides WWE and um eons of God wanted to be a WWE superstar one day but I think it's one of those things where I did mire more from afar because like they we grind as throwers but those guys are on the road 300 days a year and it's like I couldn't live that lifestyle but even today I'm a huge WWE geek okay see that's pretty cool um all right so let's see and you're not a movie guy no really I don't think I have the attention span for it I'll watch movies and forget everything and that's funny that I'd rather be doing instead so and being um so uh so what is life gonna look like after throwing and how how many more years do you think you will be competing I'm I gotta believe Paris has gotta be the goal still yeah so I definitely I want to make Paris um I was thinking about being done this year just because like I mean after the Tokyo Olympics just because like injuries piling up and stuff and I'm dealing with one injury that I can't really figure out so um I mean I figured how to throw 70 feet with it but at the same time like it it's kind of unpredictable so the consistency that I was used to in the previous years it's not going to be a thing anymore so that's kind of difficult mentally but um I think as long as my weight room numbers are going up and like I'm still throwing decently far I might as well just push it till at least the next games before I reassess um and after I retire from throwing I do want to get into coaching so because I just I feel like I have a lot to offer um not just as far as the technique stuff but just mindset um and just how to get people to feel good about themselves through throwing so you know throwing doesn't make you a good person but the skills you get through throwing can translate into your daily life so learning how to you know respect others like you know I'm always brushing shoulders with guys that are above and below me and the respect stays there so you got to be securing yourself fitness like we're 280 and 300 pounds but we're pretty fit compared to the general population so stuff like that self-esteem like seeing the ball go far or moving heavy weights can make you feel good about yourself right so I like through my years of doing it at the high school college and the non-professional level I have something to offer to that the next generation I call them the leaders of tomorrow that's good yes for sure thank you that's kind of what uh in a parallel way right I created our coaching system because if we our goal is hey if we're teaching young guys these are going to be future coaches and there's so many guys out there that learn terrible stuff and then they they decide somebody asked them to come help coach and they didn't learn anything so they're not going to help anybody learn anything so we wanted to create something at least gives people a rapid understanding of the structure of the throw and that way those next guys and of course there's always going to be those people that are um get grabbed by it right and you want to know more and you want to understand and why do I move this way and what what happens if my head's here my change this angle and that kind of stuff um so that would be kind of my last question for you on that note um you get uh what what was it about throwing that sucked you in um so I wanted to get into the weight room at high at my high school and the only way to do that after school was to be a part of a varsity team so I was going to join a sport be it wrestling or you know like I figured I'd want something more individual um I probably wasn't built to play basketball so it was either wrestling or track and field and then I think track and field was more accessible got you well cool um and what is it specifically about throwing technique to get you hooked on it just the fact that you're the perfect throw doesn't exist but you can get pretty damn close right and the problem is that perfect throw changes with the way you change day to day so it's the constant puzzles like you're chasing the dragon and sometimes it's not gonna be perfect the way it looks but it'd feel great you know or and then the opposite of that which is kind of scary is when it looks great but it doesn't go you know so you always want to get a grasp on the current situation and throwing like training your technique and even like your fitness and stuff like that like right you always put pieces to that puzzle together in different ways very cool what uh if you go like on foods tacos or wings wings okay um tacos or burgers tacos okay I gotta get tacos in there um favorite pump up song um price of fame by Michael Jackson price of fame by Michael Jackson interesting okay um let's see favorite rock band rock so it depends on what you consider rock um like I consider panic at the disco rock okay so that would be we'll go we'll go class yeah that's a little more poppy right panic at the disco alternative poppy so we'll go we'll go classic classic rock class oof that'd be difficult that'd be different um I've come by a lot of hdc okay yeah that's kind of a good classic rock one all right I'm old so classic is maybe subjective you know that's fair um let's see uh favorite rap song oh all that's on me too okay yeah that's classic right there okay that is a good one um let's see uh are you a sweet guy yeah okay because I'd seen something you'd mentioned about diet so what's your your go-to healthy meal what and what's your go-to cheat meal go-to healthy meal um rice and beef just rice with a side of beef light seasoning um go-to cheat meal I'm a sucker for Oreos Oreos huh that's funny they all night all right and then um let's see favorite type of pizza um I just get from pizza so being from New York like the weird thing I'm not a piece of connoisseur that's who I was gonna say yeah I just I get basic pizza hut with the garlic crust and garlic you know pepperonis on it that's it okay best place to eat in West Lafayette it's not a whole lot in West Lafayette there's really not a lot in West Lafayette best place to eat and you're from Queens right mm what's the best place I know that's a big area but mm there's a place right by my high school called fat boys pizza yeah so they had a bunch of weird uh weird flavors that kind of hit so they had a buffalo chicken pizza it's not as good as it tastes yeah it doesn't sound as good but it was good yeah okay any just general suggestions or advice you would give young throwers and young coaches yeah well for young throwers just stay the course um you can see even from my progression that there's some ebbs and flows there's highs and lows and stuff like that but even if you're having a hard time or like you're in a little bit of a slump there's a way out of it some way somehow so just like it sounds corny but stay the course um if you quit you can't get out of it so just keep keep working and eventually you'll find an answer to the young coaches just like I'm a young coach so but um I think be patient yeah and just look for those highlight moments to where an athlete feels good about a throw or um I think one of the biggest things for me is when an athlete gets that light bulb moment mm-hmm you can see that they understand what we're saying whether they can do it or not you're right if they understand like for me that's the most fulfilling feeling in the world yeah no that's definitely cool I I I I definitely do this it's fun I get excited about that kid who busts 30 feet in the shot you know guy or girl and there's just whatever barrier 30 40 50 60 you know I've had I've been lucky to have a few 70 foot shot putters and uh you know I was just excited about the kid throwing 35 feet as I was about the kid throwing you know 70 feet so um but uh yeah no that's awesome and uh um thanks so much man I hopefully uh I try to do I I'm getting my kinking out my uh my process but it's always just really insightful to love talking to you guys and hearing about it again congratulations on all the success it's it's like you got a pretty impressive rap sheet now you've been ranked top 10 in the world uh I really hope to see you you know get healthy because I know that's a really important thing and uh you know I'd love to see you hit that 22 meters and that would be you know a nice way to to keep things rolling so get healthy for sure yeah and uh by the way have you ever looked into the one by 20 stuff no it's uh yes this he was all him him and Dr. B were good buddies so he does this one by 20 method and it's basically it's up to 20 exercises one set of 20 reps so from one to 15 you basically get a kind of a strength endurance but from 15 to 20 you elicit a 85 to 95 percent one RM type of load and because you're only doing one set it's really key for joint tendon strength well and so all these coaches have done a lot of really research on it yes this is like I said he was like Dr. B's he's like the guy really almost responsible for bringing a lot of Dr. B's information to the states and he was really close with Thunder Chuck so it's just an interesting thing so a lot of guys who are having like chronic nagging injuries and I know you know I'm familiar with conjugate but what it'll do is kind of sometimes shift gears and your initial thought is I'm doing 20 reps how the hell am I going to get strong but these guys all show that the you start to do you have like a more advanced workout would be like a unilateral day and a bilateral day so you're doing more exercises so you hit more body parts and you allow recovery you get this real good uh results and all these really successful coaches have reported like drops in 40 times 6 inch improvements and verticals big strength gains still because these athletes are like shoring up a lot of technical issues weaknesses and they're really kind of just giving the body an opportunity to build that tendon ligament strength so it's something you might want to check into just if you're having kind of chronic injury and if you've been doing conjugate for a while it's one of those things that you can and I know it's scary because I have one of my athletes who's an advanced guy Jason Harrell I don't know if you know Jason Discus thrower he's he threw 6548 a couple years ago he's got he's getting married this is his final year he's 31 and he's been always ready to throw well and then he gets he's had these recurring little naggy injuries weird shit that just shouldn't happen and we put him on it and it's like shockingly how well he's actually performing so we're doing it in an attempt to not not have him have these weird because he'll be training great he doesn't get like major there's no back issues there's no shoulders there's no he'll he'll strain his adductor he'll strain his hip flexor it'll get straight so he's always had this quad adductor hip thing going on and every year we're like going great and it's like a week before nationals he'll get a strain you know the year he threw 6548 he couldn't take any full throws at 100% seven days prior to the US championships well because he had pulled it so he still he finished eighth that year but it was like he was throwing lights out like he probably would have he would have been in a really good spot to be that was an amazing year in the men's discus though so even if he had a great year I think it was like Sam was Sam Mattis was what third at 66 but any rate the point of that was is the one by 20 might be something you might want to check into there's a lot of really good info on it and it's a way to get that that you basically it's a way of getting your body to repair strengthen and kind of clean up imbalances so you can start pushing again without any injury so something to think about I appreciate that I look into it yeah so it because for me as a strength guy and a coach and everything I was kind of like so I was talking to some people and I brought in some people to give me some opinions on stuff and I was like man this seems like such a departure but the more and more you dig into it you're like okay this is totally making sense and then there's a lot of validation on it and then I've been doing it with some of my guys and it's like yeah I'm actually seeing that they're throwing well they're moving well they're healthy they feel good they're recovered so it's it's working so we're doing all right man well hey I really appreciate it congratulations again on all this success I appreciate the generosity of your time thanks so much and I hope to see you too son we'll work on it okay all right buddy take care yeah okay bye