 Let's get started with our second talk for tonight and we're going to learn about herbs. And here to cover the basics of growing herbs is Kelsey Deckard. Kelsey's the horticulture agent for Burley and Morton counties. And she spends much of her time answering questions from her communities. But she also conducts lots of programs for the youth and adults. She works with local master gardeners and manages the Mandan Community Garden. Kelsey, welcome to the forums. Thanks, Tom. Thanks for having me. Sure. What an act to follow up there with Andy. Great way to start off the spring fever forums. And so just continue in this theme about growing tonight. Like Tom said, I'm here to talk to you guys about growing herbs. Great thing about herbs is they can be grown all year round. And here's just kind of some of the reasons that people grow herbs. Cooking, garnish, flavor enhancement, aroma. There's alleged healing properties and medicine. And the one thing that I definitely want our listeners out there to know is growing them as a garnish or using them as flavor enhancement is a great way to cut down on some of that salt content that we seem to kind of overdo our daily dose of on a regular basis. So it's a great option to add a little flavor and maybe cut back on some of that sodium content we intake. So if you are going to go ahead and grow herbs, you're going to want to start indoors during the late winter months. You'll want them under light for 14 to 16 hours. The light should be placed above the plants about six inches. And then you'll go ahead and transplant these into the garden once the frost danger has has passed. And so I always tell people it's a great way if you're struggling with some wintertime blues or you maybe want to see a little green earlier than our North Dakota weather allows us to. As far as soil, your soil needs to be well drained. They recommend a pH between six and seven and a half. You do want to avoid a high nutrient soil as it can cause a rapid lush growth. That's only going to contain a small amount of essential oils that give herbs that characteristic aroma and flavor. And then the one thing that's good about herbs is you just you don't need much fertilizer, so you can use fertilizer sparingly. When you are watering, you got you want to water them once a week, very thoroughly and outdoor containers. So if you're growing them outdoor rather than in a garden, but in containers, they're going to need more more water more often and stuff. Indoor containers should have water when the soil feels dry. And just like when you're when you're gardening or if you are container growing, the best method is to go ahead and just do the touch test. So I just recommend taking your index finger, sticking it down about an inch. If that feels dry, go ahead and give it some water. As far as mulch, mulch, you can use straw, compost or leaves. And you're going to want that about two to five inches thick, depending on the plant. And this is going to be great just for maintaining that moisture during our summer. And especially if we have I mean, knock on wood, we don't have a summer like the last two years. But when we are in a drought, mulch is going to be very beneficial for maintaining that moisture. And besides maintaining moisture, it's also going to act as a weed barrier. So it'll help with a little bit of that competition we may see from other unwanted weeds in our garden. Now, harvesting, you most herbs are going to have the best flavor if they're harvest right before flowering. Midmorning are going to be the best hours to pick those herbs as the oil content is the highest. So that would be after the dew is gone, but before the heat of the day begins once picked, you're going to want to keep those herbs out of the bright light. If you are going to just use them for fresh use, go ahead and harvest what you need. If you are going to dry them or freeze them, go ahead and gather as much as you can dry or freeze at a time. So growing indoors, like I said, it's a great option if you want some green during the winter. And some people will maintain herbs all year round and have it fresh right on the counter to throw into cooking dishes. So if you're going to grow them indoors, you want a south window that gets at least six hours of light. You want to keep them away from any drafts or heaters. So if you do have some drafty windows, push them away from that draft. You want to maintain your daytime temperatures of 65 to 70 degrees and nighttime rate between 55 and 60 degrees. Water them regularly. You can miss them daily or even place them next to a humidifier. And then you do need to repot them when you see roots starting to grow through those drainage holes. And again, if you're growing them indoors, just like outdoors, you're going to fertilize them periodically. So that's kind of the basics in a nutshell. It's a really quick, basic overflow of how to grow herbs. But I'm going to talk to you guys about some individual herbs to grow here in North Dakota. And then we're going to talk about how to preserve them. So basil, this is a very common one. It's an annual herb, has a very strong aroma. It is cold sensitive, so we want to plant any transplants when the soil has warmed to 68 degrees. You're going to water at the base of the plant to prevent any fungal disease. And again, that goes with any of your garden plants. Be watering at the base instead of overhead. And then you can harvest these once there's several leaves on it. There's many types that can be grown in North Dakota, including holy lemon, purple. Those are just a few. And then if you are consuming them and adding them in your cooking dishes, they're going to go really well with our tomatoes, pasta, pork, cell dressings and even potatoes. Very popular, of course, if you're a pizza lover, too, people like to use this one. So oregano, this is a perennial. It's hardy for zone five. So again, this is one that we cannot have all year round outside and needs to be treated as a tender perennial. So in the fall, let's bring it indoors. Make sure that make sure that we're not going to kill it off by leaving it out there too long. It's going to enhance our Italian dishes. And we will plant this one again once the frost has passed. So it goes great with our tomatoes, pasta, sauces, pizza, chili, stuffing, pork, lamb. Again, it's a really good one to go really fresh with. Parsley, to me, I always tell people, parsley is kind of a boring herb. And that's just a personal opinion, not that it's not versatile or anything like that, but it's going to be commonly used as a garnish and flavoring in dishes. The thing about parsley is it's not adding a lot of flavor enhancement in my opinion. So it's similar to growing carrots. And so what I mean by that is it should be treated as a biannual. It's a biannual that's treated like an annual, excuse me. Garlic, I would say, you know, garlic is a great one here in North Dakota. I know there's a couple NDSU publications on growing great garlic and Tom has written on growing garlic here in North Dakota too. So the great thing about garlic is we actually plant this in the fall after our first hard frost. And so that's generally a late September, early October, again, kind of depending on the year, and it's propagated from the cloves. So when you do plant garlic, you want to place the clove with the point up, point it up and you'll put it about three inches into the soil. And then you'll harvest this one when the foliage starts to turn yellow. Of course, garlic is very versatile. It's going to go, I mean, pretty much with anything. Some of the suggested uses, if you don't know how to use it, would be pairing it with some tomato dishes, soups, dips, sauce, meat, poultry, marinades. I would say garlic is probably a very common staple that everybody uses within their cooking. Chives, this is a hardy perennial that is sown directly in the soil. This one, the great thing about chives is it's not very particular about our soil conditions, but it does require a full light. I kind of feel like chives are a little bit underrated in stuff. So it's kind of a great alternative, you know, or a little bit milder flavor than onions. And so you can use these in soups, salads, potatoes, meat, cheese, again, a really nicely versatile herb. Cilantro, this is an annual that requires full sunlight and regular watering. It's going to be very popular in our Mexican, Chinese, Southern America, Southern American and Vietnamese cuisines. We're going to harvest the leaves once the plant has reached at least six inches in height. And when it has grown for seeds, it's going to be referred to as coriander. So again, if you've heard those two interchangeable, that's what it means, whether it's grown for its leaves or for the seeds. So we use these most common, I would say, like I mentioned earlier, Mexican dishes, a lot of salsas, soups, salads, and potato dishes. Dill, this is an annual that is highly versatile, used fresh and dried. Again, I think our North Dakotans here, we go crazy over dill because we want to pickle everything. So this is going to thrive in really cool weather and it can be sown in the early spring. It's going to be, like I said, one of the most popular herbs grown, especially here in North Dakota, and all parts of the plant can be used. We're going to use these in our pickled items, sauerkraut, breads, chickens, and even on fish. Again, dill is very versatile. Lavender, I like lavender a lot. A lot of people are going to grow this one really for its essential oils, that aroma, it's going to have that strong aroma. It should be grown and treated as an annual, as it may not survive the winter here in North Dakota. If you like to be a scientist and experiment to increase any chances of winter survival, you're going to want to plant in a soil with excellent drainage. And like on a self-facing slope that receives full sun. Lavender, like I said, is going to be commonly used for essential oils. So I know it's kind of referred to as the calming herb. I know people will use it to put on their pillow before bed. It's going to be popular in like pulporee. And if you are using it in beverages, it pairs well with lemonade and tea. Some of our baked goods as well, you'll see it with honey. It goes well on chicken and lamb and even in jelly. Mint, peppermint is hardy in North Dakota, but our other mints will die unless you bring them indoors or they are mulched heavily during the winter. This one grows very aggressively and will spread. It does require watering regularly. And you want to harvest this one on a late morning, on a dry sunny day. Again, that's when the oil flavor is going to be at its peak. The smaller, younger leaves are going to be more flavorful than those older leaves. For the mint family herbs, you can make a cut a few inches down the stem just above a set of leaves and then harvest that. There's so many variety of mints. Tom and I actually visited about growing herbs a month ago on TV and I told him this is definitely one of my favorite ones just because of the options. So you can find, you know, spearmint, pineapple, chocolate, orange, mojito. Mint is going to be really good on desserts and then again in beverages and stuff. So Tom says you can't taste the difference between the different types of mints, but I told him I'd take the challenge this summer and do a blindfold taste test on it because I think the flavor of the different mints is very noticeable. And then I threw lemon verbina in. Tom did express this was a favorite of his and stuff. So I just figured others probably appreciated it in tonight's presentation. So this is going to be a tender. It's a deciduous woody shrub that has a very strong lemon scent. That's where you're going to find it on the foliage and that scent actually is retained when it's dried. So this one is going to be used frequently in our teas, fruit salads, you will find it in marinades, again, chilled beverages and pulporee. This one, just like others, let's harvest right before blooms. And then chamomile. I would say this one is a sure herb if you want to go ahead and try growing herbs for the first time. It's a perennial, it's super easy to grow. It's not going to be particular about any soil conditions. And this one is used commonly in teas, a lot of herbal teas or even just adding it to some of our green and black teas. So it works very well in there. So that's kind of a top 10. I think I gave you guys 11 herbs here to try North Dakota. Moving on to methods of preservation. You can air dry. So if you are going to air dry any herbs, you'll pick these plants again at the peak. So right before they are flowering or blossoming, you're going to wash them in bunches and you'll tie those bunches with a string. You want to hang them up like in you see in this picture, hang them up upside down in a well ventilated dark place for roughly about two weeks. You will go ahead and check back on them and make sure that they are completely dried before storing. If they end up having some retained moisture and they're not fully dry, they can mold while you are storing them. So an easy way to tell that they are completely dried is the leaves will easily crumble. Another method is oven drying. So this one takes a little bit more work and a little bit more practice, I would say, but you're just going to go ahead and set your oven to 100 degrees or even the lowest setting that's available and you're going to heat the herbs until they're brittle. So you will want to go ahead and test these hourly. If you do set it above 100 degrees, the flavor results may be undesirable. Excuse me, you can use a dehydrator as well. And so if you do go that route, essentially it's the same as oven drying. You're just going to want to refer to the manufacturer's instructions on how to go about the setting for that. Microwave, this is a quick easy way if you are wanting to preserve in a hurry. So you can grab, it's recommended about four bunches of cleaned herbs and you will simply place those in between paper towels and you're going to go ahead and microwave them one to three minutes on high, checking them every 30 seconds. So you will have to cool them and cool them and then test the herbs if they're brittle. So every time after 30 seconds, take them out, let them cool, see if it is brittle. If it's not, then let's continue to microwave another 30 seconds or 30 second intervals until they do crumble easily. So again, this maybe isn't as much of a popular preferred method, but if you are in a quick hurry, this is a good method to go ahead and dry our herbs with. This one I would say is probably a easy wand and a great option out there freezing. And so you'll simply place cleaned herbs in an airtight freezer bag and you can place them in the freezer. You can do it that way or an alternative way would be to place these chopped herbs in ice cube trays and then you'll go ahead and fill them with water and freeze them. And so what's great about that is then you can take them out of the ice cube trays, you can put them in an airtight bag, label it, whether it's a mint or cilantro or basil, and then you can just pop out a few of the cubes and use them whenever you need them. So whether or not you're adding them to soup stews or beverages, it's just a quick, easy way to throw a couple ice cubes in and get that flavor enhancement. So that is kind of the nitty gritty on growing herbs and top herbs to grow here in North Dakota. I will go ahead and take any questions here. Okay, thanks, Kelsey. How about, have you ever tried growing winter savory? I have not. And I actually have experienced herbs with actually some gardeners here between Bismarck and Mandan actually last year I had a program, but I've not grown that. Have you, Tom? No, I've never grown that one. You know, I gotta say you're challenging me on that mint, didn't quite get that right. Of course I can tell a peppermint from a spearmint, but there's so many mints like, what's apple mint or orange mint? You know, I just, they're just trying to sell extra mint. I don't. I think it's got distinct flavors. That's what we're trying to find. Pineapple mint, you know, we're gonna, we'll do a taste, we'll do a blindfold test on that. I'm games. Okay, luckily we, or maybe we'll even do it on camera so you can feel and miserably in front of the public. Here we go. All right, I will feel probably. Let's let me go through here. Was it quite, there was a question about, there was a question about, does it make it, does it, if you planted herbs near your house, would that repel bugs or attract bugs? I don't know that I've ever heard of it being used as a repellent, so I can't say that it would or wouldn't. Yeah, if you worry about bugs, just seal your house better. That's what it's all about. For, if you grow herbs indoors, how many hours do you recommend for grow lights to be used? Yeah, like I said, you wanna put them about six inches above when you are doing that, and then you're gonna want, especially when you're starting, they're gonna need a longer light, so you're gonna want them under there that 14 to 16 hour range when you're starting them. Have you ever heard of strawberry mint? That one I haven't. Me too. I never heard that either, but one of the audience says that pineapple mint and strawberry mint are definitely different. So there you go. You gotta try a strawberry mint. How long do herbs last in the freezer? I, you know, that definitely, again, I would agree with Andy that probably falls under Julie Garten Robinson. I don't know that I have a date. Do you know on that one? Yeah, I honestly don't know. Yeah, I would say use them as you can. If you start, I mean, you can see signs of freezer burnt on things too, and even ice cubes in a bag, you'll notice that, so. Are there any herbs that will deter a deer or grasshoppers out of the garden? No. Okay, so much for that solution. How about cayenne pepper? Do you consider that an herb? You know, I think it's a pepper, but yeah, obviously you can dry it and use it as a powder and stuff. Are you asking that in far, as far as deterring too? Yeah. Yeah, okay, well, I'll tell you personally, it's kept dogs out. I've used it with dogs, but my dogs, again, this is just a personal experience. My dogs actually respond better to pepper spray than cayenne pepper out there. Okay, I wonder what kind of peppers that must be habanero or something really powerful. Yeah, in some cultures, you can eat the leaves of pepper plants or use as herbs. So just be careful drying cayenne pepper in the oven. Wow, I almost died when I did that once. I opened up the oven and just about, that was the end of me right there. I just a blast of capsicum. About, do you have any general harvesting tips about for herbs or maybe in particular? Yeah, like I said, do you want to definitely harvest rapy like when the flavors are peaked? So that would be right before they're blooming. Again, try mid-morning days. So that's when that oil content is gonna be at the highest and you're gonna get that peak flavoring. Yeah, I don't have anything else. Don't harvest someone they're wet. Okay, that's good. Sounds good. Do you eat the chive blossoms? I don't. I don't know if other cultures do. Tom, you're probably more of a worser than that. Well, what do we say about what the British eat green potatoes? So I guess you can eat chive blossoms if you're starving. Maybe the British would eat chive blossoms, but I don't think we're not that hungry here. We're not starving to death. How about, do you ever store them in oil, herbs and oil? Well, you can do like, I don't know about storing, but you can do like an oil dressing and add herbs into them. I don't know about storing them in there. Okay. Have you ever tried growing stevia? I have not grown stevia. She tried germinating it under a growl lamp and it didn't wanna come up. Well, I would probably, yeah, I was gonna say I would maybe evaluate where that growl lamp was, how close it was or how far away it was. I mean, there could be a number of things of why it didn't germinate. Yeah, that's right. Warm up the soil might help. Have you tried spraying growth? You ever heard that? I never heard that. Spray and growth on your planted herbs. Must be like, must be a fertilizer. A foliar fertilizer. Can you grow- I'm not familiar with it. Yeah, me too. Have you ever grown herbs hydroponically? I again, have not grown them hydroponically. So I don't know how successful somebody would be with it. I guess it could work. Why not? Especially man, can't kill man. How about any special recommendations on fertilizing herbs? Like do they need a lot of fertilizer or not? No, like I mentioned, whether you're growing them in the garden or outside or indoors, they don't need very much fertilizer at all. Are there herbs that serve as good companions to one another when they're growing in pots? That's a good question. You know, again, I haven't like went in to grow companion ones. I've grown a lot of herbs with youth and stuff, but not really any, I haven't done any research about companion ones. I mean, I would say, why wouldn't you grow like basil and oregano together just because they would pair well, but I don't know about companion. How about you? Any idea on that? Yeah, I don't think there's any special combo there. I guess look for ones that would complement the growth structure, like maybe a tall one with a spreading one. Right. And, you know, mint, mint is not a good companion for anybody they should be. You should be single forever. They're just dating on the bed. Just like a Catholic priest should just stay single. That's it. How about, can you repel mosquitoes with herbs? I'm wondering if maybe people are asking these questions because of like the citronella plant that people do purchase. Obviously, that's not grown as an herb. So I don't know if that's what they keep kind of. Peppermint. This person says peppermint, lemon, balm, basil and rosemary may repel bugs and especially mosquitoes. OK, there you have it. Well, I think they're wrong. That's what I say because there's no, it's very little. The thing about repeling mosquitoes is like, let's say with that citronella plant, you have to crush the leaves and use the essential oil and wave it around the whole time. And, you know, when you wave that all the time, that's you're going to look ridiculous and you're going to sweat and sweat attracts mosquitoes. So it's just like you destroyed your plant and it's just not the way to go. There's you'd have to have it. You have to have it. Yeah, you have to have concentrated essential oils. You'd have to harvest it and then use the essential oils and then apply it to your skin, I guess. But these plants do not repel mosquitoes effectively. This person says basil will repel or will repel deer. Did you know that? No, I did not. You know why? Because there was soybeans planted in the neighbor's garden and the deer just went and ate the neighbor's garden instead. I don't think. How about a cayenne may help with against grasshoppers? OK, I believe it may help. OK, somebody eats chives, blossoms and salads. I don't know if she's British or not, but it's possible. Try it says here, Chive blossoms are great in salads and garnishes. There you go. There's something to go for that. Do you have any idea about how you make lavender oil or take the essential oils out of it? No, I have not harvested oils. So that's not an answer I can give. That would take a lot of lavender. You can make pulporee out of it. Pulporee literally stands for rotten pots. That's what pulporee is, rotten pots. So there you go. Have you ever? Can you grow rosemary indoors? Yeah, I don't know why you couldn't. Sure. Helps cure baldness, they say. So could come in handy for me. OK, I was going to say I'll have my husband try it. There you go. It was a full report next year. Again, there's a comment that based on tomatoes are often considered to be companion crops. I mean, that kind of sounds like a themed garden, but yeah. Yeah, I can see them having different pests and problem in each other. This person has hydroponic gardens for herbs and lettuce, basil is the easiest one to grow. So that works. Do we have any other questions out there from the audience? Just put them in the chat box. Yeah, we're learning lots here. Yeah, growing hydroponically. That's the easiest one to grow. They can root in a couple of days, pop them in, give them some liquid fertilizer now and then. Do you start to deal indoors or direct seed it? Direct seed at that one you can. I mean, you can start indoors, but yeah, you can direct seed it too, because it's going to be a little more tolerant of those colder temperatures. I wonder, do you know about any wild herbs that people could forage around for? No, I don't. I'm not saying they're not out there. I'm sure they are, but. Does any rosemary survive North Dakota winter? Tom? No way. I mean, I mean, you have to heavily mulch it. You just got to accept the fact this is North Dakota. How do you extend the harvest of herbs I mean, if you definitely, if you grow them indoors or if you're bringing them indoors, you can, you can continue them. That'd be an easy way. Maybe use some, some grow covers or frost blankets could give you a couple degrees to at least two degrees and frost blankets, maybe eight degrees. What do you do with a borage plant? I don't know. I don't know what a borage plant is. Borage is a herb that's famous. Oh, if you ever grow borage, man, that is a pollinator magnet. It's got blue flowers. That's the cool thing about it. Okay. It's got blue flowers. And so that's them. I think you can use it for tea, if I recall. When do you plant cilantro? Do you plant it early or late in spring? Again, that one, like I mentioned, you'll want to after that frost has passed. The frost danger. So around here, you know, may, about May 15th is Bismarck man down area. Okay. Good. This gardener claims that herbs can hide the scent of cabbage, broccoli and cauliflower. So the cabbage worms won't find it. There we go. Is there a perennial time for our zone? Time. T H Y M E. Oh, you know, I don't know that. I don't know that. I haven't focused on that, on that herb. At all. There is a wild herb called Indian garlic or onion. It's a small ball that this gardener harvested as a child. Interesting. Very hungry child. My cilantro. This person's cilantro and dill recede itself. What's it there between catnip and cat mint? Oh, well. Okay. You're testing me here, but. Those are definitely two different plants. Right? I mean cat. People like you is actually like their cat. Cats can go like. Berserk off of eating that. Right. And cat mint. I'm not a hundred percent sure. And it's just another one of those mints. They're all over the place. That one. I probably won't be able to tell you what it tastes like. Okay. They say you can put the borage flowers in ice cubes and they taste wonderful in lemonade. You can eat the borage flowers. They're all over the place. They're all over the place. This person's cilantro bolts before they get any leaves. What are they doing wrong? Well, if it's, I mean, outdoors, it could just be the heat and high temperatures. Like we experienced the last two years. If it's indoors. Again, I don't know if you have it under lights. It could be a difference of the heat and the lights where those are placed at. And depending on where it's being grown. Yeah. There's a variety of differences there too. Look for varieties that don't bolt. It makes a huge difference. And just keep pinching them. So they'll be less likely to bolt. So they want me to taste the mint too next time. There you go. I guess we'll do that on Dakota growing. Okay. Summer. Becky's cats loved the cat mint plant. They would roll in it and sleep in it. They would not eat it though. I have barn cats. My cats hang out in the barn. Okay. There's a perennial time called mother of time. It comes back with goods. As long as you have good snow cover and it recedes. Okay. Good to know. Okay. I think we got it covered. Thank you, Kelsey. That was very good. I love it. Thanks. Thanks for teaching us about the herbs. Yep. Thank you for having me, Tom. Appreciate it. We'll have those minutes later.