 a lot of similarities. It's a Patrick of voices also sort of based on a documentary type of text. Can all of you talk a little bit about the narrative or structure that you've built for this because unlike let's say a book where you can just you have chapters or profiles, here we want to create a story. So how does that work here within the musical? Well I will say we when we first looked at the material there was a question of whether this should just be a musical review and just a series of songs and having spent the last five years trying to make the show working work, you understand that without a continuing character it's a major uphill battle to keep people involved and invested and continually build the tension and dramatic stakes of a show. And so I lobbied hard for bringing in a central character and that was where Charles came in and Abby and I first sat down at her dining room table and talked about her experiences and tried to come up with a very loose outline because a blank page is probably the most terrifying thing to hand someone so at least we were able to say here's a great outline now fly make it your own and that's that sort of became our goal. Yeah so we thought this idea since on one hand we have all these different voices of these prominent Jewish people I thought maybe with them that if we had some kind of continuing narrative that so I invented a character that has a couple of Abby's experiences but it's interesting enough and says this fictional character who's talking to the audience about her life and where she's brought up and really sort of agnostic and then as what role does ethnic identity play in in her life as we said she kind of flashes back over her previous 40 years so it's interesting because originally Gordon you know got me I think I was drunk and he said all you need to do we just want like a couple little funny monologues and of course it's never complicated but it's a very interesting challenge to see how much book is there in this review and you know we keep finding it and what exactly are we saying and you know it's it keeps evolving because the mix changes every time there's another flavor in this. We're just getting it together for this this reading was so invaluable to see and we got these fantastic cast and shaping it around them for this just coming to Philadelphia so let's cut that changes sorry I flip it so you know what I love it's kind of almost my favorite thing in the world you know I've never worked with Gordon before you know the jury was still out. Last week it just we had the most fun we kind of ran through it once and and then Gordon had a bunch of new ideas and we just in 20 minutes with all the cards in the air and we arranged the whole thing and so much better and I just at the best time and just thought oh I like this Gordon Greenberg we got a bunch of fun. That's sort of a fun part of the musical and the challenge too but the Rubik's Cube of it all and sort of just changing all the colors. I would look better if we mean this whole thing red. Okay the problem is then you have to teach the whole cast and the music director and the copyists and the orchestration but we've got a really agile group. Can you say a little bit more along those lines about how does collaboration work among the three of you? Are you sitting together doing this or are you going off separately and working? How's the process? Well I'll start by saying that I actually took a really big step back and I'm a control freak New Yorker as my family knows so that wasn't easy for me but these two are so talented they're reputations perceived them and I also knew as the author of the book that this was going to be a different piece that they were launching from something that I did as a journalist and something I obviously feel strongly about but it now it had to take a different shape and so that has been really interesting and because I feel like I'm in good hands I'm trying to keep my mouth shut although sometimes Gordon and Charles are like stop talking stop whisper it so it's but it's but that has been a step I think because you write you write the book that's the foundation and then you realize it's got to grow into something really really different separate but then it was interesting a couple weeks ago I was sort of having trouble I trouble with it and then I thought there is a certain element of of adding in this character and then I just asked you would you just just write just write down your random thoughts and these various subjects for me and and email it to me and she just wrote the most beautifully articulate feelings bad bad just very personal things about faith and her experiences and and some of that just took verbatim and just put it in and I think it's really beautiful so you say you kind of go in and out of yeah yes exploitation but she's also I should say this is a rare situation because not only she's the author of the book but she's a musical theater person who was in Merrily we roll on one of the most all-time famous genius so it's not like she doesn't also once she takes a step back she's able to actually comment on this as a musical now Charles can you say a little bit more about your work as a librettist but I think it's sometimes it's a title a world I think mystifies some people in terms of what it is that the librettist is doing are you writing insert song here what happens when you're a very different situation because it's not it's not a book musical and what's what we're trying to figure out is you know it's a one-hands or two separate shows in certain senses there's this play of this fictional lady that we keep revisiting and then there are these I stand alone interviews of these well known people but we did we early on have discovered that that they need to be more connected and we're finding more and more connections to that so my role is quite it's really it's quite different and we're still figuring it out you know in a book musical you traditional book musical the book writer really does provide a whole context for the numbers and and and then different collaborations go out of different ways I know I've heard the terrorist now we'll just write write the play and just overwrite it and then the composers and lyricists come in just take what they want to musicalize and and do that and I think there are other people who write in places where this is be the song that would be right so you know it varies and with this it's it's different because it's a we're trying to figure out how much how much do we need to connect her to the specific song or not because you can get to on the nose about it and be kind of hokey you know at the same time an audience does like to be guided I would just add that what did happen to me in doing this book is that talking all these famous people affected my personal choices in terms of my faith or religion or identity and that was totally unexpected I didn't expect to feel more Jewish after interviewing a lot of Jews who actually have a very disconnected from their Judaism but I think that this character who is separate from the celebrities does in that sense represent what a lot of people feel whether they're Jewish or not which is that you're having your own kind of experience but you're also watching how public figures experience that same identity can you say without maybe tipping the hat too much because we want to be a little bit of a surprise but can you say a little bit about what we're going to see tonight and say maybe what this is still work on progress so we've been some of the challenges that you're still maybe grappling with at this at this point it's really that that in a standard musical you essentially write the play or at least that's that's how I've done it and you either put in insert song here or you put the the parameters for the song what you wanted to achieve and in this case it's sort of we keep taking one baby step forward with the book so Charles takes goes on faith and takes a step forward but the songplaces don't necessarily fit the songs that exist and then we'll take the songs and sort of start adjusting the book to it and it's sort of one foot and then the next and the question is of course do you know is it necessary for the song the song to absolutely reflect what she's just the experience that she's just had or a certain sense is more just that by her interviewing by us knowing that she's interviewing these famous people and we see these vignettes about about them that we can just take that leap that oh this is what she's gaining from them without it being specifically she talks about you know her son's bris and somebody writes a bris number you know it's just a bris number tonight this talent tonight is in part about it's I think was called creating a new American musical and looking at the challenges and the rewards of doing that to from also the performers and directors and writers you've all been part of working in musicals what's your current feeling about the the landscape or the environment of creating a new musical today is it is it welcoming I think it's great I don't think it's ever been better there's glee high school musical it's very much a part of popular culture and it wasn't 15 20 years ago people get that it makes financial sense to write musicals now more than it used to not always on Broadway and Broadway's got its own economics and Broadway's definitely become a part of the tourist landscape in New York so it's it's got that and then there's celebrity plays and there's certain niches that fit but I think generally as a person who loves musicals and writes musicals there are a lot of applications for it on television for Disney for I mean I'm the things that I'm working on are in so many different mediums and I feel fortunate that those avenues even exist that's from my perspective that said I also think people are open to new forms like the yental we just did was literally just a klezmer rock band on stage singing songs that reflected the inner life of the characters but none of the characters actually sang we used it like a movie soundtrack so it was just a new way of doing it to make the make the show feel juicy and exciting but not necessarily singing your emotions to each other the word I believe we never actually almost just that out of time so I have sort of one final question this is my indulgent question have you guys been watching smash yes yes how many of you have been watching smash yes I'm asking this question because you know the show reports to be you know the real life behind the scenes what goes on making Broadway musical what's your assessment of the show is it is it is it on the no I'm watching with my daughter religiously but I just I feel like I mean I was in one Broadway show and I was lucky enough and it was it was a full-scale disaster at the end of the day it was watching Stephen Sondheim and how Prince really wrestle with amazing music a difficult script but I just never saw the backstabbing that's in the show I was involved with one of the big flops of the previous decade taboo and I was really notorious and I did think one point well I could just write such a wonderful memoir about these crazy wild characters you know Rosie O'Donnell and George and you just can't believe the job I'm going on but then nobody ever trust you again that's your career why would anybody want the spy to you know to be working for them so and I and I wouldn't want to you know hurt some of these people who are very fond of but the goal of smash is to be a good TV show I don't think their goal is to bring verisimilitude to the masses I think they're looking to create good characters like this to show you where really goes on