 from last picked to last standing. The Nikola Yokojera has begun. Run it back starts now. Run it up, run it back. Run it up, run it back, run it back, run it up. It's the morning after guys, welcome to run it back. Tuesday morning, we've got a new champion. We're gonna talk about it for the next hour. First, I wanna introduce everyone. Shamsherania Stadium Insider Chandler Parsons, Eddie Gonzalez, guys. Are we taking deep breaths? Are we in our Zen moment? Are we ready to dissect every second of what we saw last night? Cause it was fun. I was rooting for a Miami win to give us more, but you know what? I'm good with how this one ended as well. They outlast the heat. Game five, they win their first ever title. Miami did go on that 8-0 run very, very late, but there was the huge turnover from Jimmy Butler. It's odd cause he also had all the points as well, but this was the difference maker. We're gonna get to Denver, I promise you, but we just wanna start this one off what did the heat do so incredibly incorrect Chandler that cost him this one? Well, we were waiting for the Jimmy Butler kind of takeover game, and he showed flashes there at the end of the game, right? He went on a 13 point run himself. He made some big plays down the stretch. He got to the free-to-line, he hit threes, but this is more to me about the nuggets, right? This is a real test of a championship contending team, of a championship winning team where they were all whole in the first half. I think they were one of 15 from three. They had 10 turnovers. Murray was struggling. I think Jamal Murray had more turnovers than field goals. Aaron Gordon got into that early foul trouble, and I think he played seven minutes or something in the first half. So this just showed that they still had enough to hang in there, and they still had enough to go on runs. And it's crazy because when you look at this game, they had no business winning it, but how bad is they were playing as much as they were struggling? We're still right in it. You know, it got a little bit out of control there with eight or nine points down, but this just shows you how prepared they are. This just shows you that the better team executed at the end of the game and made big plays. And even when Jokic and Murray struggle, they had guys that stepped up. Michael Porter hit some big shots last night. Brown made some big plays. This was just a contavious call about hope. It's a huge shot. So this was just an all-around collective effort, and they got something from everybody. And the better team won. And we all kind of thought it was gonna happen, right? We all picked this series, the finals ending last night, and they did everything they can. It was an ugly game. There was a time there. I don't know if the offense was just horrible or if the defense really picked up, but this was a Miami Heat tight game, and the Nuggets found a way to pull it out and win. Yeah, I mean, the answer to the question is they didn't get a great enough series from Jimmy. Just outright. He wasn't the player we saw on round one. He wasn't really the player we saw on round two. And he answered the question yesterday. Said it had nothing to do with ankle. He wasn't good enough. And that's that. So I hope that's the story going forward, but they just didn't get enough from him. And that's really all it comes down to. They needed to be able to match Yolkets and Jamal Murray's performance. Bam was fine. I think it also helps how they were carding him, but they needed more from Jimmy. They were depending way too much on Duncan Robinson, and Gabe Vincent, and wondering, hoping that Tyler Hero would come off the bench. And they needed huge contributions from Kevin Love. They had to play Cody Zeller late. But they needed more from their star. They never got that from him. And it's unfortunate because he started to play also with such a bang. And it looked like he was going on a historic run, and he whimpered out late. But that's how it goes. And at the end of the day, they did not have the firepower to match what Denver had. But I'm with Chandler. I think the series, and this game in particular, it's way more about what Denver did than what the Miami Heat could not do. They got contributions all over the day. Guys, they played all series. They all did something. Even De'Andre Jordan came in the game yesterday, had a huge block, gave them three good minutes. And they were just on all cylinders. I think the story of this season and this playoffs is the best team absolutely won. And they were the best team in the league all year long. And they were the best team in league in June as well. I mean, I just really think the Nuggets have the making of a dynasty. I think this first championship, they're going to have a window here over the next three to five years. Nikolay Yolkic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter, Jr., Aaron Gordon, they're all locked in. We'll see what happens with the frequency of Bruce Brown. This is a team that's loaded right now. And look at this playoff run for Nikolay Yolkic. We know historically what he did first player ever to lead the postseason points, rebounds, and assists. But then Jamal Murray, him coming back after missing the last two playoffs was big. I mean, he averaged 26, 7, and 5 during this playoff run. And three guards in the history of the NBA finals have 100 plus points, 50 plus assists, and 45% field goal percentage. Jamal Murray, Michael Jordan, and Magic Johnson. So this is just rare company. You have to give a lot of credit to Michael Malone, Calvin Booth, Josh Kronke, Tim Connelly even. This is the guy that really built this team. Calvin Booth came in and made a lot of changes. This past offseason traded for Contavia's Colwell Pope, got Bruce Brown. So a lot of credit to Calvin Booth, Tim Connelly for laying the foundation. And I think one thing, and I've spoken to people around the Nuggets for the last year or so, none of this is possible without Nikolay Yolkic. They know how much they lucked into it. You can't really prepare. You can't really scout for a guy that Nikolay Yolkic. You just have to luck into it. They lucked into it. And I mean, he's this modern era of Tim Duncan if there ever was one. Ooh, I don't hate that, by the way. First center to win finals MVP since Shaq. So now the conversation, it sort of had begun, but let's really just, we're gonna have it all summer long. Where do you rank him, Chandler? Great centers after his three year run so far. I mean, he's right there when you look at the top five centers. He's right there. And it's hard with his resume being 28 years old with so much basketball to be played. You look at Shaq, Will, Karim, Russell, Hakim Alajuan, and then there's Yolkic. And I could argue that I could rank him up some of those guys. And it's hard for a player. We haven't had a star like this that's so likable in such a long time. This guy is just, I believe him. And I trust him. A lot of guys say the right things and even fake do the right things. This guy is 100% pure. He loves his team. He loves his family. And then there's like basketball that he's really good at and he enjoys playing. But when you look at the greats at his resume with now with now with a cherry on top of the championship, it's hard not to put him in the top five already, which is crazy because he's only going to go up. He's 28 years old. He's got a lot of basketball to play. And his game will age very, very well, right? He's not going to lose his touch. He's not going to lose the way he plays. His smarts, his vision, the unselfishness of the way he plays. His jumper is getting better where he's knocking down threes at a high club. We've never seen a center like him. We've had some dominating guys of their era of their time, but we've never seen a guy like this contribute to his team like this, get everybody involved, play the way he plays. It truly is remarkable. And in my eyes, he's already a top five center and it's only going to keep going higher. Yeah, I'm with Chandler. I don't know exactly where I'd rank him historically, but the thing you have to remember is he's 28 and he will age well, health permitting. And I know we all joke about him being a little chubby or whatever. He actually looks like he's in pretty great shape, all things considered. He plays at his own pace. He's been extremely durable throughout his career. I know he missed some games this year, but a lot of that was low management. A lot of that was they were so far away, the one seed that they could take their time with him and be right. The thing about it is the way the league is structured now, I don't know where this kid that's coming who can help guard him. I don't know where the team is set up to be big enough to really bother him. So he's going to continue to collect stats. The stats he has, they've been historic. He's already got two MVP's. A lot of people feel like he should have been the first guy to get a three in a row this year. And again, he's only going to get better from here. Whether they're a dynasty or not, all everybody in the league is going to be trying to work their way into being better than them this year. I know you could pick apart the run they went on and the teams they played and some of the injuries and some of the flaws with the teams they went against. And that's cool. But him individually, he is, I think, the best player in the league. I think he's proved that over the last two months. There's nobody who has an answer for him. He plays a style of basketball that he will always have the statistics as long as he is this good. And historically, you're talking about Shaq, you're talking about Hakim, you're talking about Bill Russell, Wilt, Karim Uduz-Jabbar. So if we're talking about the top five centers, that's a hard list to crack. But he's on his way to at least being in the conversation, at least being one of those guys. And I think those guys will respect what he's done as well. Shaq's. Everything that Chandler and Eddie just said. Everything. Okay. I mean, I don't know what more I can add. I mean, he's obviously one of the greatest players of all time already. I think he's obviously going to go down like Chandler and Eddie just said as a top five center of all time. The question is just going to be where? I just want to watch the champagne video again. It's just the guy who's like, I don't want to waste champagne. And I respect that. And one other thing with him too, you know, a lot of, a lot of guys debates happen with eras, right? Could this guy be that good at that era? I ain't a question with him. You could put him in the 60s, the 70s, whatever era his game transitions to whatever style of play the league was at that time. So I know people talk about the centers back in the day. We're playing against, you know, gingeretics that are playing against accountants. Oh dear. Nikola Jokis can play at any era on any team, any given night. So that's, that's going to only help. Don't, we can't repeat the gingeretics stuff. That, that hurts people's feelings. Yeah, him, him leading the, the entire playoffs in total points rebounds and assists, that's absurd. You shouldn't be able to do that as one player. That's not something that happens. He only played 20 games. And, and, and I know that's a lot of games compared to some of the other guys, but they didn't play a game seven. They only played one game six. And it, you know, 30, 13, nine and a half assists. And his assists went down in this series because he had to score a little bit more. What he does is ridiculous on the court. And I want to give credit to his defense as well. And look, anybody gets him on the island and dribbles around him, that's, that's fine. We're talking about the greatest point guards on the road. Yes, they can dribble around Nikola Jokis. But he was an anchor in the paint. He's hard to finish on. He understands where he needs to be in position wise. And, you know, he gave them issues in the paint. He gave them issues on defense. I don't think he'll ever be a defensive stopper or somebody in the ranks for a defensive player of the year. But he knows what to do on the end of the floor. He's smart. He's only going to get better over these next couple of years. It's kind of scary what he can be. And there are more MVPs for him to win now that we've got over the him winning three in a row or he can't win a title. And all these narratives around him. The next couple of years, they'll really solidify where he is historically. But again, that top five center's list, we're talking Shaq Hakim, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, Will Chamberlain, Bill Russell. There's no slouches in there. They're all legends. They're all incredible. They're all some of the greatest players of all time. But he can crack that list. He can get in there. I don't know where you put him, but he's good enough to start making us have really, really strong conversations about who he is and where he is in history. Man, this whole conversation is pissing some people off. And I'm living for that, by the way. Mike Malone after the game said, they want more. Here he is. All the hard work, all the sacrifice, all the dedication all culminated with us winning a championship. But I got news for everybody out there. We're not satisfied. We want it. We want more. We want more. I mean, look, I think this conversation was being had during this series. Is this team equipped to make a real run for this thing and keep it going, Chandler? Yeah, Choms touched on it earlier, too. Their main core is locked. They're locked in, right? So they have this main core. I think that it's critical that they re-sign Bruce Brown. He gave them so much this year. All playoffs long, he's been great with his energy, his shot making, his defense. For the right price, you've got to re-sign him. And then you look at, you could always get deeper, right? You always can add more shooting around that duo to space the floor, give them more space to even operate in their pick and roll. And they have young guys, too. They have current players now going into their prime. They have young guys like Peyton Watson, who doesn't even play from UCLA, who I love. So they have it all. And guess what? They're also going to get free agents, too, because guys will take pay cuts to go play with this, dude. And guys want to win. And guys want to be in this system and this culture where there's no distractions. There's, think about the Nuggets, right? There's no drama. All these other teams that we've covered all year long, there's so many issues, there's so many distractions. There's so many players that do things that put themselves before the team. The Nuggets don't do that. And I don't know if that's Kronke, if that's Malone, if that's Jokic, who set that tone. But this is becoming an unbelievable organization that is, should be a hotbed for free agents in this Jokic Murray era. Because when you look at the style and the way they play and the stars around the league, if I'm a free agent, I'm going to play with Jokic because he's going to make me better. I'm going to look a lot better at basketball than I am playing on this team and with that. So yeah, I don't think they're done any time soon. I think they have it all. I think they can continue to develop their young guys. But yeah, the sky's the limit for this team. That's a weird slow-mo, Eddie. Yeah, the AIDS, you know, their oldest core piece is Contavious Call of Hope, who just turned 30. I mean, you can count Jeff Green if you want. And we know Jeff Green is Uncle Jeff. But we're talking about their ninth guy off the bench and a utility player. I agree. They need to figure out what to do with Bruce Brown. And they're going to have to match, you know, the suitors that will come in for him. But the key for them going forward, I think, to remember, is they drafted three of their mainstays. They drafted Jokic, they drafted Jamal, and they drafted Michael Porter Jr., which also means they have their bird rights. When it comes time to re-sign them and keep the team together. And Michelle, you know, the Spurs used to toy around with who they signed and what order because how that affected the cap with the bird rights. So they'll be able to maintain this core of this team for a long time coming. And it's about filling the ancillary rolls. The fringes of the roster, they draft the Christian Brown, who I think will only get better. And if he starts to handle the ball even better, he becomes an extremely important player for them. And like Chandler said, guys are going to want to play on this team. Guys are going to want to catch those passes that Jokic finds for them. Guys are going to want to come defend and help these guys do what they do. They play a fun style. They get a lot of points up. They give shots to everybody. Nicola Jokic's got the Finals MVP yesterday. And he says, it's not about me. It's about my teammates. I want to AG to win. I want to Jamal to win. I want this guy to win. I want these guys to be happy. And when that's the core of your team and your team takes on the style of your leader and your best player, that's something that guys will line up to want to play for and play with. And so, yeah, they're going to have no shortage of ring chasers and guys like that. So they're going to be able to keep this team together. It's really about what the other contenders are going to do in the West. And I don't know that they have the answer this particular summer. No, that kid might not be out there quite yet. Turning our attention back to Miami. Look, no one is going to take anything away from what they were able to. This was a hell of a run for a quote unquote eight seed. But they are 0-2 in the Finals in the Jimmy Bam era. So, Shams, I know you're going to be spending a lot of time doing a lot of things in the offseason. But what do you think Miami is looking to add? What kind of pieces to get over the hump? The Heat have a couple of feelings of their own. Max Truse, Gabe Vincent. But I think beyond that, they're exploring seeing what the star market is out there. And just to give you a glimpse of what they've looked at over the last several months, they made an offer to the Nets for Kyrie Irving at the deadline from what I'm told right before he got traded to the Mavericks before the deadline. So that just gives you an idea that I think there's been some level of understanding that trying to get Jimmy Butler and Bam out of bio, just another piece that can take the load off, especially during the regular season, could be of importance. And the question is, where do they go from here? Do they circle back on Kyrie Irving? There's going to be names out there in the marketplace as the draft gets closer next week. What player can the Heat potentially get? And what do they have to give? Tyler Hero, they have up to three first-run draft picks. I think that would be the basis of the type of package that you would need to go get a superstar player. But this Heat team, listen, they made a great run this postseason. They do feel like they might be one piece away. Whatever star that could be at the guard position, we'll see over the next week and a half, several weeks, which type of guy, Pat Riley, and that Fernoffice want to focus on. Yeah, I wonder. I mean, look, we saw Tyler Hero. He was in uniform. He was on the bench. The guns were out. But that was kind of it. We just kept thinking, when or if he was going to get into the game, the beauty for Tyler Hero is his legacy gets better from this because he didn't play, right? It's like, would he have changed the game, Chandler, if Tyler Hero entered the game? Because we're thinking positively, but you'll never know. What do you think? Well, I also think he would have played if they got off to a bad start. And they didn't have to be early, which they did. So I think that's the reason why he didn't play. But yeah, a healthy Tyler Hero, about a 20-point score, a game. And when you watched this game last night, the Heat's offense was ugly. It was stagnant. There were guys taking uncharacteristic shots. They really did not get very many good looks last night. And they went through huge stretches like that, where the nuggets were turning a ball over. They were missing shots themselves. And the Heat just couldn't capitalize. And you have a bucket getter, a shot maker, a creator, and Tyler Hero on the bench, who was great for you all since long. That does make a huge difference. Not having Victor Aladipo made a huge difference, because this team wasn't full strength. But like Sean just said, they're right there, right? They are in a great position. I think they're always with that organization, that city. They're always going to be a destination for big names. You hear the Damien Lillard talks. Can they find a way to package him? At what price do you resign Max Struse and Gabe Vincent? To me, they also need a big guy. Like you can't expect Bam to be doing what he's doing and being the center battler. You need some sort of reliable big guy in the market that's not Zeller, that's not Kevin Love. You need someone that's bigger and stronger and almost an enforcer down there. They could always get deeper. I think you got to figure out a way to get off the Duncan Robinson contract or not pay Struse and then Duncan Robinson's your guy. They have some decisions they have to make there. Kyle Lowry's likely done. I mean, he's 37 years old. So there's a lot of unknowns there, but they're in a great position. They're young. Their core is prime. They're tough. You know how good their development is at their whole organization. So whoever they get is going to get better while they're there. But yeah, they're right there. And this was a hell of a season for them. Nobody expected them to be there. Everybody all year talked about the Bucks, the Celtics, the 76ers, and the heat just kept their head down and kept working and were right there. So Tyler here, they need to get healthy and they have some decisions to make this summer. But I'm not surprised if they're right back in the same position next year. I mean, this Miami Heat organization has historically been very aggressive in the Pat Riley era with Mickey Harrison. I mean, they made the Shaq trade. They put together the big three. They made the Jimmy trade, right? They're in talks. Every player that comes up from free agency or trade, KD, Kyrie, as mentioned, and everybody who comes up, Kauai, when Jaylen Brown comes up, it'll come up with Karanthi Towns. Everybody else, they'll all be available to the Miami Heat if they can make the deal, if they can find the right price. The problem is it might cost them, bam, out of the bio. I don't know that the Kyle Lowry, Duncan Roberts, and Tyler Hero package is enough to get any of these guys, unless they're begging to go to the Miami Heat, unless they're telling whomever has to make that decision, I'm only going to Miami or I'm not going anywhere else, which is not unfathomable. Like, guys love to live in Miami, guys love to live in Florida, no state tax. So they will be aggressive. They won't just sit there and rest on their laurels and say, hey, we won one game in the NBA finals. They won't be happy about that. What I've seen mentioned, I don't know if it was a real Joel and B-Tweet, a fake Joel and B-Tweet, but it said, yo, the heat need another star. I think they need a star. Like shout out to Jimmy Butler, but I think we're seeing the peak of what he is. He averaged 21 a game on 43% shooting in the finals. That's kind of not what a star does. He had a great run, but I think you need somebody who's better than Jimmy Butler at the head of the snake. Maybe that's Dame Lillard, maybe that's Jalen Brown if he becomes available. I don't know who it is out there, but what I do know is the Miami Heat, they will be aggressive and finding that person. I just don't know if they'll have the option to go get them this year with the packages they have that they can put together. Now I'm stuck on the Kyrie Irving thing. I can't get that one out of my mind, Shoms. I'm like, would he rather go play with LeBron in the Lakers or would he rather go to Miami if given the choice? Like I don't know. Seems like he loves playing with LeBron, but what's got the better future? Look, the off season has officially started. It started last night with the last seconds winding down. So Shoms, give us some scoop. Yeah, the Pelicans, they're a team to really keep an eye on going into the draft next Thursday. I'm told they're going after Scoot Henderson. They want Scoot Henderson in this draft. Right now they're at 14. They're not gonna get him at 14. But when you look at the picks that it'll take to get him, two or three, most likely the number two slot. They're having conversations with the Hornets, I'm told, about getting that number two pick. The question is how does the trade work and do the Pelicans look hard internally at moving Zion Williamson? Would they move Zion Williamson? I think those are the big questions. I don't know if the Hornets would do number 14 and a package of future first round picks. The problem with the Pelicans is this core just has not been able to be healthy over the last couple of years. And when you look at Scoot Henderson, this guy's athletic, he can pass, he can score. And I think more than anything, you're starting to see teams that have worked him out that are bringing him in, that are considering him and even the Pelicans, they look at him as a franchise type guard, a guy that can be a culture program builder for your team. He brings that toughness, the grit, the energy for you. And he can really set the tone. The Pelicans would love to have him be their lead guard. So we'll see what transpires between now and Thursday. You like that idea Chandler? The idea of Pelicans with Scoot? I do, I think this kid is the most NBA ready draft prospect this coming June. I think depending on what they can give up, if you remember the beginning of this year and even last year, how exciting this team was in the future with guys like Alvarez and Herb Jones and Trey Murphy with that big three of Brandon Ingram, CJ and Zion, there's always going to be the question, is Zion healthy and how can we keep him healthy? I'm not ready to put him in this package to Scoot. I'm not ready for that. But yeah, the idea of Scoot Henderson, Brandon Ingram and Zion throw in CJ McCollum in that package with the picks and one of those young assets. I think this team is right there. I think they got a great young coach. I think their future could be very, very bright. And I agree, I think this kid is, I think he's the rookie of the year. I think he's the most ready. I think he's the most physically gifted player that's going to get high minutes. And so yeah, I would love to see him in New Orleans paired with those guys, but I'm not ready to put Zion in that trade if I'm on the pelicans, no way. Yeah, let's say the quiet part out loud, right? You're not doing this trade for CJ McCollum or Herb Jones or Trey Murphy and Spicks. If you're doing this trade, it's for Zion Williamson or maybe Brandon Ingram. And so if New Orleans has progressed to the point where they're considering trading either one of those guys, that's a reset. We're restarting a team that was jumped out to a big start early this season that we feel like we're really contained with the pieces they have. You're trying to reset it. So that's very curious to me, but if you're Charlotte and they ever put Zion Williamson on the table, if you hesitate for a second to get away, to not have Lamello Ball and Zion Williamson on the same team in that uniform for a team you're selling. Oh no, like you have to do that immediately. So if that's ever on the table, I don't care what the deal is, you take Zion. I love scoot, I love Brandon Miller, but I need Zion. We're not doing the mystery box here. I see the boat, I want the boat. So I'm taking Zion if I'm the hornest the moment he gets offered in this trade. Anything less than that, I'm riding out with Scoot or Brandon Miller and seeing what we have there, but that's way too enticing. So if New Orleans has got there, hey, I mean, that's where it's at with them. And yeah, you know, Ingram, Scoot, that's enticing. But if they're moving on from that core they already had, that's shocking to me. By the way, props to y'all for keeping it totally profesh through that entire Zion Williamson moment. And I respect all three of you. Shams, CP3 and the Suns, do we have movement? Do we have anything going on there? It's still ongoing. The Suns are actively engaged in trade conversations. I'm told around the league about Chris Paul. They're exploring multiple options with this future. Of course, there is the path of waving and potentially resigning it. There's a path of waving and stretching which would make available the full mid-level exception of $12 million a year. But there is interest in the market for a Chris Paul trade. It's not an open and shut case that he'll be waved. So they're going to scour the market. His date, his guaranteed date, isn't until the end of the month. So they've got about a week and a half here, a couple of weeks here to figure out if there's a trade that can get done. But I would expect them to be very active in conversations throughout the league. Who wants to take that on, Chandler? If you were a GM, what are you thinking about this? Well, I'm a team that can win right now. I'm a team that I need him this coming season, right? Like there's not a future plan here. But Chris Paul is a guy, he's a plug-and-play guy. He fits most systems and you look at contenders around the league. Like if the heat don't resign, Gabe Vinson, I would love Chris Paul on the heat. Same thing with the Celtics or the Lakers or the Clippers, any of these teams that are kind of right there, they're just missing a piece. Chris Paul can still play. He's shown this year that he still has flashes. He's one of the best pick and roll players of all time. You get that leadership, that experience, that locker room. I think he's not going to go to a bad team, but you look at any of these contenders across the board, he can help and he still can play and I think he's still some time left. So I definitely think between the heat, the Celtics, the Lakers, Clippers, any of those teams, I think Chris Paul would be great for. Two things that I think are really fascinating. I don't know how realistic it is for them, but the Philadelphia 76ers, whether they keep James Harden or not, he's a great fit for them. It's the type of guy who's absolutely going to get the most out of Joel and Bede. And the goal is they were. So I've seen rumored and kind of laughed about, but if he can go there and come off the bench, he would obviously have to come off the bench behind Steph and Curry. He provides a stasis to that bench unit that they have not had in years and would absolutely change what they have there, whether that's via trade, whether that's via Chris Paul being waved. I don't think he'll just be waved and walked. Like the Suns cannot have $16 million of just dead cap on their roster. They can't do that. So they have to figure something out, whether it's keeping him or trading him. But I would be very intrigued by Chris Paul and the Warriors after all they've been through against each other and with each other, coming off the bench for them and providing a spark for that offense. You think he'd be cool with that? I think he wants to win a ring and that's probably his best course. And do you think we'll crush him if he does that to win the ring? Oh, we'll crush him either way. It's Chris Paul. I just want to make sure we're keeping it honest and real here. Okay, perfect. Time for a quick break. When we come back, love this dude, Jamal Crawford is standing by to give us all of his wisdom on the finals, on basketball and everything else when Run It Back returns. And that's why they call him Jake Crossover. Ah, yes, 20 seasons in the NBA. Sixth man of the year award, three times. Jamal is with us this morning. Rock in the Sonics, TIC. Well done, sir. Well done. Look, this was the best time to get you. It's the morning after we've got a new champion and we're going to get to all that. But I want to start with Jamal Murray because everyone kept referring to him as bubble Jamal, which I think probably at some point got annoying to him. But his emergence was a reminder to a lot of people. What did you think about what he did during this finals? Well, not only the bubble tag, right? Bubble Jamal, but the fact that the injury he had and how his game was just flourishing and to see him hit that bump in the road and know how hard he works and how much he loves the game, it was tough. And nobody was like, can he get back to that level? Not only did he get back to that level, he went to that level, another level, and then the final level and just was historic in the way he played on the biggest level. So I'm so happy for him because I tore my ACL before. Chandler just had injuries. All the days when you're like, you know what? I don't know if I can do this. What's the life in the tunnel? He did all that and more. That's where the tears came from because he was just, he put in so much work. He was at such a level and he got back to that level. So I'm excited for him. Yeah, Jamal, you played against Jokic, a handful of times. You also played against Shaquille O'Neal. How do you compare the two? What was it like guarding or playing against scouting both of those big guys? Their dominance is different, but it's just as effective, right? Shaq is gonna overpower you. He's gonna dominate you. I remember when I first saw him walk out the back, he was the biggest human being I'd ever seen in my life. And he came out to the Undertaker music. I'm like, this is what we're in for? Like there's no way. There's no way we're stopping this guy. So it was just unbelievable to how good he was and how dominant he was. Joker is different because he's working backwards. He's one of the rare superstars who gets everybody involved first and then he dominates. Oh, brother, I won 15 assists, 15 year olds. Oh, I look up, I have 30 points. So it's like he's dominating the whole different way. Both of them are dominant, but it's just Joker is really a point guard. And you can mix bird, magic, dirt and a little bit of Tim Duck and then you mix it up and you make it the Joker. That ain't bad. Crazy. Jason, you had one of the best handles in the NBA, I think in history of the game, but who in today's game you think has as good as handles as you did? Ooh. The obvious choice, Kyrie Urban. And I think the difference between the way he and I handle and the rest of everybody else's, we use our feet. We can be in two places at once. Like that's why you see us when we split screens and stuff. We're already looking at the second and third defender of help. We're not worried about the guy guard next. And we use our feet. Our feet, our mind and our handles are all aligned. And I think that's what makes it look different than everybody else. I think everybody else has handles. We're putting our feet, our imagination and our brain all in like the same wavelength. And that's what makes it a little bit different. Best handles in NBA history. I don't know if you're gonna pick yourself, but I'm giving you the floor to go wherever you wanna go. No, I always take myself out of that conversation to be honest. I think, you know, Isaiah Thomas, original Isaiah Thomas, that's who I saw like doing the dope behind the back and doing all the crazy stuff. Then you have Kyrie, you have Iverson, you have white chocolate, Jason Williams. And then I always say my last spot is like CP slash Ross Strickland slash Nick Van Axel slash Baron Davis. You know, it's like so many great guys right there. So absolutely slash Mahmood. Like all these guys were unbelievable ball handles. Oh man, that last slash got me excited because I thought for sure it was gonna be Chandler and it wasn't and it was disappointing not to hear him there. But I want to try to change your mind. He's the skill set guy. He's the skill set guy. His skill was unbelievable. What about this though? That was a crossover moment for Chandler. How are we doing this? Hey! You know what's sad is my only ankle breaker was for sure a Kyrie. Hey, you know what? In today's NBA, that's nowhere near Kyrie. From a one to two, that was a 12, easy. And then he went finished. Number one, he finished it. And then he finished it with the left hand as well through three people. So I'm giving him a 12 on that one. Ooh, a 12. High marks, he got high marks. Appreciate that. No doubt. Congrats, CP. Stamp on. Jamal, I was just gonna say like this NBA stuff is cool. You've had a great career, obviously. And clearly Chandler had the handles of a guide over there. But I know the most fun you're having with basketball right now is coaching your boy JJ, coaching that team up there, getting that mob ready. Tell us about that, because each game looks like strikingly similar to yours. It's kind of scary. Yeah, you know what? When I wanted to play still, and I'm like, how do I get 51 points off the bench? And I can't get a job the next year. How do I get teammate of the year, the year before that? You can't question my character. Like how did I, and I was going through and I couldn't watch basketball for a while. And so what I would do, like I just start volunteering, right? And then that went for me, evolved from me volunteering to coaching. And to be honest with you, coaching him and that team actually saved me because I was going through that stage of like, I don't know what I want to do. I don't know. I love the game so much. I had front office offers. I had coaching offers, but that's not really what I wanted to do. And the being around those kids, I know I'm helping them, but they saved me way more than I am helping them. Like it's not even a fair exchange because they reset everything. And now that was just this past weekend. That's my voice sounds like this. I was doing a lot of yellow in the championship, but they've helped me so, so much. And I love those kids so, so much. We play again this weekend actually. So they, I've turned into coach mall. And that's my favorite thing to do, to be honest with you over talking the game or anything, being around those kids and coaching. So I've heard of so many guys being depressed and they lost the game. And I was kind of having those moments at times, but being with them saved me. So absolutely the most important thing to me. So much for that. The second guy, the second guy this week, that's the coaching, that's huge. I love that, by the way. I want to talk a little, Coby Bryant, with you, you played 28 games against him. I mean, look, just we can simulate it. We can try to reimagine it, but guarding him. What is it like when you got the better of him? Did you get the better of him? And did he tell you about it immediately? You know what? I was literally 70 years in the league before he even acknowledged me on the court. So we were, it was funny. I'm going to tell you a backstory. We were doing like some Thanksgiving event in New York. It was MBPA, some of the Lakers, some of us. And Coby came in like only Coby can. You know, players go to these events in sweats. Coby came in with a tailored suit, trench coat on top, almost sitting on his shoulders like his arms were in and he was just so cool. And I'm just looking at him like that's Coby over there. I'm not saying a word. The next day we play him in a matinee game. At the time, he became the youngest player ever to score 20,000 points. And I think he had 38, 38 that game. And I think I had 1.5. They were beating us by 25. The second half I scored 33. And I brought us all the way back to one point. And I remember on the court, the first thing he said was you as hot as a pistol, huh? Okay, here I come. And he came to guard me and I scored a couple. I got a couple of assists. I still was kind of rolling after the game. This video of it actually came and gave me depth. It's a good game. My brother and he grabbed my head and said something. I was a league seven years before he acknowledged he even knew I existed. Yeah, seven years. So guarding him was like, it was like no other. He was literally the best player I played against. Like he had no fear. He could go one for 15 and think he was hot. His work ethic, his skill. When you knew you were gonna play against him, like he wanted to take your heart but you lost sleep the night before. So what I would do, I got smarter. So I got 2,000 quick. I got to go guard somebody over there. I'll be back side watching to help him. But he was like no other. And then to see our relationship evolve as well and become friends and texts. And like it was just unbelievable. I remember the last time I saw him, he was with his daughter at the All-Star Game in Vegas. I believe it was 2019. And I was across the court and he didn't really see me until I was about to get up and leave. And he looked and he started doing his behind the back. And he told his friend next to him like, man, he's behind the back. And then he went like this. And I walked out and I saw my son. Oh, it's almost like you kind of don't want him to ignore. I mean, it took seven years, right? But the minute he acknowledged you, it's almost terrifying, isn't it? Like I don't, a guy like him, a guy like Michael Jordan, I almost don't want them to know I exist. Is that a fair assessment of how somebody might feel? That's pretty fair of what Kobe mastered like MJ. I would say those two more than anybody else. They mastered the art of war on a basketball court. You know what I mean? Like they mastered that. And so he knew I was there. I work with Shaq now. So Shaq has told me things. He knew I was there, but he just didn't really want to acknowledge me until he was like, OK, I see you now. But it took seven years. I promise you that was the first time we had an interaction on the court. And I love that. It's crazy because Kobe, he didn't even have to say anything. His face said it all when he was just offended every time I would be guarding him. And he didn't have to say anything. Who is this slow-ass white boy thinking he could guard me? Speaking back in 2019, you had a crazy game when you were playing with the Suns where you dropped 51. Hey, can you the oldest player to ever drop 50 in a game? Tell us about that night. What were you feeling? How was that? So Chandler, before even the 51, right, they told me the company I'd be in if I scored 25. I think if I scored 25 in three straight games, Kobe, Karim, and I believe those two were the only two that had scored 25 three straight games. I'm only going into it thinking I want 25. I had 25 going to the fourth quarter. So I'm like, oh, I can just be free now. Like, this is it. I scored 26 in the fourth. And you know, when you score a lot of points, you can't do it by yourself. There has to be good calls from your coaches, teammates giving you the ball, setting screens. And then honestly, when I got that hot, it just felt like I was in the backyard shooting. It felt like I was playing in my program. Like, you know what? Shoot the ball, you're open, and I just got hot. And the team fed off of that. We were down again, I think 25 or 30. It was Durk's last night. So we weren't going to win, all right? The league, we were not going to win. It was not going to happen. But to be able to have a great game, I knew the world was watching. And Durk shot me out in his speech afterwards. It was pretty cool because as soon as the game was over, I had one of the ball boys who would give me my phone, so I could just take everything that was going on with the speech and all the legends there that were there to see him. But that was, if not knowing that would be my official last game, but if that was my last game, what a way to go out, right? Yeah, that's awesome. Oh, yeah. Yeah. By the way, Jamal, my most favorite crossword of yours was the hop step between the legs. I don't know where you came up with that, but that was nasty. 450 plus point games over your career. When did you know on game day, like this is going to be my night? Like when, was it during the game? Was it before the game? Like how do you know that it's your moment? It's weird because Shams are all different. You know what I mean? Like the first one, I remember it. I was playing Toronto and Roman Madrowski could look at stuff. It was his last day on the beat, right? On the beat. And it was one of our last games of the season. And he was like, man, you've been scoring. Why don't you go get 50? And I was tying my shoes. I said, I can get 50. I said, I'll do it today. And I felt it like in the pregame because I couldn't miss in Toronto. And Chandler said like they're great shooting. It's a great shooting arena. I'm like, I can do it today. And I wouldn't got 50 that day. So that was the first one. The second one against Miami, if you go back and look, I had the game before I had 23 points the last eight minutes against Phoenix. And then we played Miami. And I missed my first four shots. And I'm like, dang, then I got hot. And then you hit 42 straight points without a miss. You're like, this is magic, right? That was my favorite 50 point game. And the third one, I had a terrible game in Atlanta. I think I was three for 15. I remember Don Nelson was like, nobody come there. I want you guys to sleep all day. And I literally slept all day. And I just rested and I felt good at the arena. And then the last one, like I said, I only thought I was trying to get 25. And that happened going in the third quarter. So they're all different. They're all special. But yeah, like when you score like that, you cannot do it alone. Like what I'm most proud about is every 50 point game we won with the exceptional last one against Derrick. Like I said, that wasn't that happened. That's not the script. So I remember when you were in the bubble. No. Jamal, I remember when you were in the bubble. I don't think you were going to score 50 points in your debut in the bubble, but you were rolling. And then I believe you tweaked your hamstring. What do you remember most from being in the bubble, being down there and then getting down there and then you play, I think you had like four points and like three assists and like three minutes. Just take me back to the bubble a little bit. The bubble was crazy because I didn't get hurt because of the hammy, so to speak. I got hurt because I was doing lifting weights in the bubble in that tweak, which was crazy because anybody knows me knows I never lift weights ever, ever, ever, but here I am. This guy, the weights was the best defense I ever seen. So when I tried to early mark it up, I'm like, I'm not doing that. I'm staying away from that. So this is crazy because I'm coming there late. You want to be part of a team. The whole team's lifting. Like you have to do that, right? And so I tweaked and I felt it when I did. I'm like, oh man, I just tweaked it. And I was trying to play through it. Felt it in practice, but what's crazy about that is the practices leading up to that. I looked just like I did when I left and I hadn't played a game in 16 months. And I was a little nervous at first. Like, you're like the new kid in school, but once I got in rhythm, it's basketball. And I'm like, oh, it's coming back to me. And I remember going into that game, I told Jack Vaughn because at the time Milwaukee had the best record. I'm like, I don't want to come back against somebody. It's not that guy. I want to come back against him. And he's like, are you sure? I'm like, yeah, I want to come back against him. And the first time down the court, I'm like, oh, this is weird here. Once I had a nice pass, then another one I said, oh, and it was weird. So I started to see the look that I had when I left when people were like, OK, he's kind of rolling. I don't really want to guard him. So I see that as I had the ball come to court. So it put me in my rhythm even faster. So there you go. You get five points, three assists, and four minutes. And then they hand me tweaks again. And that was it. And even then, I honestly thought I'd be going back to Brooklyn in the next year. And they thought that as well. So that's where I'm like, oh, we've seen enough. We've seen the practice. We've seen the game. You'll be back. You can shut down there and we'll just get you right. So that's kind of how that went. But it was fun because I had to show leadership. I was one of the only vets there, myself here at Temple. But it was a young team. They were fighting. And to know I kind of helped move them along behind the scenes was really cool. Every lazy dude right now is like, Sage Malcroft or Liftaway's got hurt not doing it. So that's just that you gave them an excuse to not work out. And I appreciate it. What do you think you could do today? If you had to go into a game, how many points do you think you could get, realistically? How many minutes could I get? Whatever you want. 32. There you go. Only 32. Only 32. But honestly, if I play, if you gave me, if you get, because I still play, I play yesterday, by the way. And basketball, not to brag, basketball is really easy for me. So if you said, OK, Jamal, you're going to play. If you're going to play a game in two weeks, and I had two weeks to really get like NBA shape, which, you know, whatever. And you said, OK, you're going to get 15 minutes. I can get you 15 points for sure. Hell yeah. Let's make this happen. Yeah. And if you assist. Yes. I love this. About Chandler, real quick. Can I say something about Chandler, real quick? His skill set in today's game, like it would be so unbelievable because he could do everything on the court, literally. When I remember watching him in Houston, having to deal with him and asking guys like Terence Wins about it when he was there. Like, no, he's serious. And just watching his skill set. Man, you were born too, too, too early, my guy. Like you, your skill set in today's league. You would be a star, like a real life star. I love watching him play because he played the game the right way and can literally do everything. Sorry about that, my God, Eddie. I just had to say that. I appreciate that, bro. Means a lot coming from you. Oh, yeah. I love Chandler getting his flowers on here. That's cool. Yeah, I apologize, but it makes us feel weird. But shoot, not with us. I know I know I know you still play. I'm happy you mentioned that because I've invited you before. I want to publicly invite you to the cameras roll in the company Sunday Wash Club in New York. I know you're spending some time out here. I want to see you play against regular people. It's a couple of guys on the crew. I want to see you cross over my God, Moses, my God, Jimmy. I need to see some victims. But my question is a lot of your earliest work, no social media, no Twitter, no Instagram. A lot. You broke a lot of ankles in your time. What is one you think of from back in the day that would have blew NBA Twitter up today? Who's the guy you broke off that would have had everybody rolling? That's a great question. I just I literally just posted one probably like a month ago. And I call like the lost files, right? And I'm going to tell some news. I just I'm going to do after this. I'm going to tell you something I haven't told anybody. But anyways, there was one against Anthony Johnson. And I put even go to my IG, I posted it. He reached for the ball and I threw it around him in the game. And in the second defender, Gortat tried to help. And I recovered the ball and spent off the up. That's it. Oh, dear. Wait till you see the whole thing. And I think that would have all you see in the end of it. Let's see the beginning if you have it. There it is. Wee. Yeah, I think I think that one absolutely would have when it shut Twitter down if there was social media at that time. That's like the lost files one. That's one you don't see off. But are you glad there was a Twitter because I feel like some guys are like glad that Twitter wasn't a thing for most of their career. Yeah, no, I'm glad. I liked like, honestly, I didn't even talk a lot when I played. I didn't talk on the court to anybody unless they said something. And like interviews, I did my job and I went home. And now I think this is a new way for me as far as people hearing me speak or hearing me talk because I never really talked to. I talked to my teammates obviously when I was comfortable, but I just didn't talk to me again. I didn't do a lot of commercials or whatever. Movies and I got offered for different roles. But yeah, I just I did my job and went home. Jamal, in your eyes, who is the greatest six man of all time? You know what? I never I would like any conversation I may be mentioning with handles or this, I never put myself in. So I'm taking myself out immediately, even though I got some wars. And I'm not sure it's just one, but I think that Kevin McHale, I think obviously of Lou Will, Manu, who was just unbelievable. And I think those two in our era, but then you have guys like that left shrimp who had a couple of wars. You had guys like Eddie Johnson was underrated. Yeah, Ricky Pierce, you know, that left obviously, like I just mentioned, but it's just there's so many guys, obviously, have a check. Like there's so many guys, but those guys from my era, I would say that you could say like, oh, I remember him. And I've seen him recently would be Manu and Lou Will for sure. John, I know we're going to let you go here and say, did you say you had some news? Oh, we're talking about that. And it just made me trigger a thought. I was going to I was going to do this. I'm still trying to dig up this this thing from this table when I was playing like eight years old, nine years old, all the way up until now. And I was going to release this thing called the Lost Crosses and it was going to be like 30 minutes of crosses, crossovers you'd never seen from eight years old to present day. It was just a thought I had. I haven't told anybody, but I'm telling you guys now. No, you should do that because an eight year old doing that is ridiculous. Yeah, I want to see what I was doing. Hey, because one thing I've seen I've learned about myself is I go through a different time phrases, time periods of doing different for a move. So at eight years old, I may have been doing a hang dribble a lot, right? And 10 or 12 years old, I may have did a hang dribble cross. And I've seen the kind of the metamorphosis of it. And I just want to go back and look and then kind of just let some stuff out in the area, stuff that people haven't seen like you've seen the Kirk Henry, you've seen the Wesley Matthews. I want to put stuff out you haven't seen. So yeah, I'll say we love that. Please release that. Yeah, I hope yes. Please release that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, I'm working on it, CP. I'm working on it. Jamal, it has been a long time coming. So happy you were here. Perfect day to do everything. Thank you so much for the time. Anytime, whenever you guys want to run it back, I'm here. You got to run it back. Thank you. We'll be back. Yeah, that was, you nailed it. That's why you're a TV pro. We'll be back. By the way, I love him on TV. So I'm happy he's doing all of it. We'll be back to wrap things up as well in a couple of minutes. You said after the Lakers, when you said you were surprised that you didn't feel more. So I'm curious what you are feeling right now. And if you're looking forward to a parade coming up in Denver. When is parade? When is parade? Thursday. No. I need to go home. Hello. Okay. It's my favorite moment of the entire night. Guys, if there'd been a game six, what was his plan? Like, what's the deal? Make sure there's not a seven. He loses mind. It's crazy because I said before. So does he, does he care when he loses? Like, does he act like, I feel like he cares more than the lose. He likes to win, which is a really good quality to have. Like as a, he's like the classic definition of an introvert. Anytime the attention's solely on him, he is so uncomfortable. And I know some people think that's boring. I think it's relatable. There you go. I think it's incredible. He's all of us looking at the clock after, as the clock winds down at work, like, oh, it's four fiftieths time. And all that stuff he had to do after the game yesterday, that's not typical for a game. Like, I know it was, it really felt like overtime in his mind. Like, I'm ready to go. He's like, What was it with the Jamal man jumping in the pool though? Yeah, that, that was happy times. That was the happiest he was of the entire night. Yolkitch is going to give us so many gems. Now I look forward to the parade and I usually don't care. We'll be back tomorrow at Stockmore NBA. Run it up, run it back, run it up, run it back.