 Hele, mae'n gweithio, maen nhw'n start yw'n ymgyrch. Yn ymgyrch y panallus yw'r gweithio'n seisio ar y cyflwynnau, ychydig. Yn ymwysg, am ymdweithio, mae'n ymdweithio'n Llywodraeth Llywodraeth. Yn ymwysg, mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Mae'n ddefnyddio'r honno, iweithio'r honno. Ia, ia, ia, here. Gybtsfasa. Yn edrych, nai. Agwa, dylw? We? Yes. This one I will take, and the rest take. Oh, sorry. And voila. Thank you. Correct. Y prym. Some water, nai. Okay. Tais, some water. Yes. Wonderful, yes. So, how are you? I'll be starting with you. Sure. Thank you very much, everybody. I think... Oh, so, we need to be equidistant. A little bit more, okay? Thank you very much. Perfect, yes. Thank you, everybody. Welcome to this session. It's another World Forestry week special event, and the title, as you'll know, because you are here, is Beyond Numbers, Income, Employment and Decent Work in Forestry. What does this mean? We'll explain during this session. It's organised by the Food and Agriculture Organisation, so FAU of the UN, in collaboration with the International Labour Organization, the ILO, and UNICI, the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe. Okay, so a collaboration of the three. We're going to present recent evidence on forest contribution to economies. We'll be discussing lies behind the main aggregates. Now, is my microphone dipping in and out? So, we'll hear more about evidence published first hand on the world forest 2022. This is one of the key documents during this week, particularly the figures on forest total contributions to national economies and informal and informal employment. You'll have heard the figure, 33 million jobs. What does that really mean? We'll also look and discuss how mega trends, global mega trends like climate change and demographic shifts what's happening within countries and across countries. How is that affecting work in forestry? And then the needs to adapt occupational safety and health if we want to ensure decent work in the future in forestries. So, you've seen, we've got the panellists here on my left and on my right, and I'll be introducing them in turn. But to get it started, to frame the discussion, I'm delighted to invite Mr O'Crym, Yazidi, Deputy Chief of the UNECE, Fowl Forestry and Timber Section to deliver his opening remarks. And I understand, Mr Yazidi, that you have more than 30 years of experience in forest management, policy, project development and implementation, your base in Geneva. We are in safe hands. Please, O'Crym, the floor is yours. Oh, come on, please. Yes, it should be on. Yes? Yes, yes. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, dear colleagues, I have a honour to welcome you today on behalf of the three organisations, FAO, ILO and UNEC. Let me start my remarks by thanking my colleagues for joining forces to organise this important event and for our decades-long cooperation on the topic of employment in the forest sector. This will shed a light on the role of forest and forest sector in national economies and will tell us in what way the income, employment and decent work in forestry impact human lives and well-being. A warm welcome to our speakers representing other organisations and institutions who are important partners for us to better understand trends in income, employment and decent work in forests and ways to measure it. As you all know, forests generate wealth and the millions of jobs around the world, but the forest sector's economic contribution may be much larger. The sector is informal in many countries of the world and therefore its value remains largely unreported. It's estimated that more than half of the world's economic production depends on ecosystem services, including those from forests, and this will likely increase as the demand for forest products grows progressing towards a sustainable growth and a bio-based circular economy. The presentation of the background studies prepared for the State of the World Forest 2022 will provide us with information on forest total contribution to the national economies and on formal and informal employment. The transition towards sustainable development and sustainable bio-economy offers new horizons that bring new opportunities for the sector. In this context, the sustainability of forest sector jobs is becoming critical for the future. Without a workforce employed under the decent condition, the future of forest is at stake and with it, all the benefits of the forest to entire society. Globalisation, digitalisation and changing society and the changing labour market influence to the forest sector as well. The diverse situation of tasks and the new technologies will dominate our future and we have to start with the reformed forestry education and training to attract the young generation to do sector and make our workforce future proof. We will therefore discuss today how global mechatrends will affect the future of forestry work based on the finding of an upcoming FAO, ILO, UNEC joint study. Today, new job opportunities are enhancing all forest ecosystem functions. The forest workforce will need to be much more aware of their work's environmental and social impact and sustainable development concept. At the same time, job stability, remuneration, working condition, informal work, outsourcing to the contractors or the possible involvement of the migrant work in the sector cannot be overlooked. All these topics will be discussed from the perspective of different forestry actors of different forestry contexts and continents. This discussion promised to be very thought-provoking. So, thank you very much again for your participation, for your contribution. Thank you very much. Thank you very much indeed for that excellent introduction. You've set us a very heavy task here because you said all these topics will be discussed. Let's see what we can do in the next hour and a quarter or so because looking at the dynamics you've outlined here, sustainability, globalization, jobs for young people especially, future-proofing the industry, remuneration, working conditions, all of these things you've set us to discuss over the next hour or so and we'll do our best. So, thank you very much for getting us off to such a strong start. Now, I'm delighted to introduce Madame Taïs Linares Juvenal from Faw Co-ordinator of Chapter 2 of the State of the World's Forest, sophomore 2022, before she gets to her feet. Just let me say a little bit about her. She's of Brazilian background, she's an economist, senior forestry officer, for those of you who don't know, and team leader of the sustainable forest value chain innovation and investment stream in the forest division of Faw. And Taïs will be supported in her presentation by Dr Yan Xu Li co-author of the paper who is joining virtually in the paper of course, the title is Forest Sector Contribution to National Economist 2015, the direct, indirect and induced effects on value added employment and labour income. Taïs, over to you. Thank you very much Henry and I heard that my colleague Yan Xu is here with us on Zoom so it would be good to have her on screen. Thank you and I cannot see Yan Xu yet, I cannot see myself but good, I know she's here somewhere. Well, it's a great pleasure to be here today to launch this publication Forest Sector Contribution to National Economist. This was a background paper to the state of the world forest so you have seen the main findings already regarding the contributions to the DP published in SOFO 2022. But today you're going to have more details and if you read the publication you'll have many more details there. So I want before we move to the next slide and I can see Dr Yan Xu Lee now with us from the University of Georgia. I would like to let you know that we have two other colleagues who made very important contributions with us. This is a team working on this methodology for quite some time. So Mr, Dr Richard Bin May from the University of Georgia as well and our colleague in FAO Natalia Fomenton Cardoso who is also is here in the plenary with us. So the upcoming publication which is being launched today actually this afternoon I believe you'll be able to access it in the FAO website is bringing you new evidence on forest contribution to the national economies the value added employment and labour income per forest sector and per country including the direct, indirect and induced effects. Today I'm going to walk you through the background to this work this is work that has started already some time ago the methodology we have used the results, the discussion and the next steps. So the background our main question our research question has always been what is the contribution of the forest sector to the economy? So the beginning of this work I can put the date on 2014 soful 2014 when it was first published the FAO estimations of the GDP the forest contributions to global GDP and this was something that really made a very important impact in the whole forest and non forest community so it's one of our publications most cited here in FAO is exactly this soful 2014 including this data soful 2018 we developed the methodology that we're presenting to you today and we worked with the multipliers the economic multipliers approach and this is because if you see forestry as a sector the contribution to the GDP many can say okay it's small but we wanted to see what forestry is actually triggering in the rest of the economy so we adopted these started working on this methodology of the on the economic multipliers to get the total contribution so not only the contribution generated inside the forest sector directly by the forest sector but the contribution through other sectors as well then in 2019 we published the methodology and the results with the estimated in 2011 data we published an article on forest policy and economics journal with the total contribution to value added employment and labour income in 2011 and so for 2022 we then updated the estimations for the data of 2015 and if you notice you know that there is a gap between when you have the data is because we need to have the data you've seen the methodology for all countries to run this model so that's why we can never have very recent estimations we work with the most recent estimations available and in 2021 when we developed these most recent results the estimations were for the statistics we had available were for 2015 so with that I hand over to Dr Yan Shu to present us the methodology Yan Shu you have the floor Thank you Thank you everyone The key concept of the study is the ripple effects of the forest sector the forest sector's production the same activities affect more than just the fact itself they create a ripple effect so that's the economy and here's how the ripple effect works the forest industry directly hire workers and produce forest products for example lumber, plywood, top and paper products and these are the direct effects of the forest sector and when forest industries increase their production they need more raw materials they hire more people they need more raw materials machinery and equipment and this stimulates extra production activities in those supply sectors and these are the indirect effects of the forest sector and when the employees of the forest sector and the supply sectors spend their income locally for example going to stores local stores, restaurants, hospitals and those it generates extra activities in those sectors and these are the indirect effects of the forest sector therefore when we estimate the total contribution of the forest sector it's important not just looking at the direct impacts of the forest sector itself but also looking at the additional economic activities and jobs that support it on the other sectors because of the existence of the forest sector and here is a picture of the report you can see you can imagine how it works well for our study next piece next slide next piece here is a basic structure of social accounting matrix last piece okay so you have seen I don't know one yes yes you can see them slide anyway a home country economic contribution can we go to the respect of the first one it's locked me well don't know that one first anyway every economic contribution analysis can we go to the first one in the methodology slide full economic contribution analysis is based on the social accounting matrix now the social accounting matrix is an extension of the input output on paper and widely used in economic analysis basically it shows the problem of using the services among agents within the economy and we already saw based on the basic structure of the social accounting matrix for countries with the that have the the social accounting matrix we estimate the total economic contribution in terms of value added the employment and the labor income and the total economic contribution includes direct defects indirect defects and the induced defects and for our study in addition to the total volume or value of the contribution we also estimate the economic modifiers of the bar sector the modifiers give a relative measure about the contribution of the sector for example for each scholar generated in the bar sector how much is how much is generated in sectors that supply materials machinery services to the bar sector and how much is generated in other sectors because of the local spending of the employees and the main data sources of includes the 2015 new plan data and the official country industry statistics when the data are not available we use we did estimation based on historical data or a higher level aggregated sector data for our study we have in plan data for 62 countries and those are the major first products of producing countries in the world um and for countries that don't have the social economy regents we use uh on economic model what the rich are made on my colleague here to most of Georgia they construct these economic model estimates of four sectors economic modifiers for each industry and then based on the visual statistics on value added in the employment we're asking it's a total contribution of the forest sector for those countries without the intent date on here is um that's pretty much my own ruins back to you please thank you Yanshu so just to summarize so basically we assess what is the what are the relationship between the forest sector with the other sectors in the economy building based on these out input output model and the use in the social account matrix and with that we calculate these the aggregates that I'm going to show now thank you Yanshu thank you very much and we're going to then record all the results so some of the results were the same already in so for 2022 forest sector total direct contribution to the global GDP in 2015 was 6 661 billion US dollars when considering the indirect and induced effects the total contribution reads 1.5 trillion US dollars so the total economic multiplier of the forest sector evaluated is 2.3 the forest and logging has the lowest GDP multiplier when compared with other sub sectors which is 1.97 so significantly lower than the more value added sub sectors you can see on the right side of this slide the distributions of the 62 studied countries I don't know whether you understood well so we do we have a firm data so primary source data data reported by countries for 62 countries which represent more than 90% of the forest production in the world for the other countries we run an economic model to estimate the global total global contributions and here you can see on the right side that the solid wood products is a particularly dynamic sub sector together with pop and paper in the generation of value added we do the same for employment so for employment more than 19.16 million people were estimated to be directly employed in the global forest sector in 2015 accounting for the indirect and induced effects the global forest sector supported an estimated total of 32.4 million jobs in their national economy so jobs is generated in other sectors and here you can see that when we look into the primary data of the 62 studied countries we see that the pop and paper sector for employment is a little bit higher than the solid wood products but again they are the two most dynamic sub sectors so what can we learn from these results you will see in the publication we have this per region per country per region and you can see that in spite of its forest cover Africa's production is highly underestimated due to insufficient reporting and informality basically only two countries African countries have primary data on forest production that we can work through the input output model and these two countries are not the main forest producer countries in Africa so that's a very interesting point the solid wood and pop and paper sub sectors appear as the most dynamic and hence that the role of sustainable forest value chains the role they complain strategies for sustainable growth and enhanced resilience and when we look into the indirect effects of the forest sector and employment we see that the fabricated metal products and construction sectors are the ones with quite substantial indirect effects so what are our next steps we see here that this study basically we assess the backward linkers and the forward linkers of the forest sector in the economies so what we are doing now is doing national studies and doing in depth assessments on how what are these backward linkers so what are the exact sectors impacted by forestry and how this transmission pathways so how the impact is transmitted across the different sectors and the different categories in the economy so we're running now these in depth assessments for six countries Brazil, Ghana, Malawi, Finland, Hungary and Republic of Korea so those are in depth studies individual studies per country we cannot do this an aggregated level and the results will be known by the end of this year so thank you very much for your attention thank you very much Yanshu for the presentation and the collaboration Natalia and Richard as well and thank you very much for this and access the publication today on the website after your website thank you Tais, thank you very much indeed so forest sector contributions to national economies is there downloadable and available a fountain a mountain indeed of information so thank you very much indeed for that it's great to see the next steps that you're going to be taking with those six countries several of which are represented strongly here during this week now let's move on because I'm delighted to introduce madam Yonsha Gurbazir from FAO and madam Ratia Lippe from the Tunin Institute in Hamburg, Germany who have also co-authored a SOFO 2022 background paper as we prepare to hear from them I'll tell you a little bit about them Ms Gurbazir is an economist and statistician in the statistics division of FAO so she's based here and Dr Lippe is a senior scientist in the working area of sustainability assessment forests and society at the Tunin Institute of Forestry in Hamburg in Germany fantastic okay so Yonsha I think you're going to start aren't you because FAO have joined forces with the ILO and we have an ILO representative here on the platform you'll hear from him in a moment a question to you Yonsha I mean please explain why FAO engaged in this process before Ratia will then share some results of the research carried out so over to you thank you very much thank you very much Harry so dear participants on behalf of FAO and the ILO and in collaboration with the Tunin Institute I have the pleasure to provide you today with an update on an important topic which is the number of people employed in the forest sector as we know forests are important sources of employment livelihoods and incomes for millions of people across the globe we heard it in the previous presentation as well despite the relevance of forests for employment and income generation though yet we have limited quantitative information on the people employed in the forest sector so employment related to the forest sector is also part of the global core set of forest indicators developed by the collaborative partnership on forest in 2017 to streamline data collection so in October 2019 FAO and the ILO jointly coordinated a session at an expert workshop within the context of the collaborative partnership on forests the objective of this session was to review the progress in this indicator and to produce recommendations on the next steps to further develop methodology and increase data availability on employment in the forest sector following this expert workshop the key recommendations included alignment of the employment concept with the international conference of labor statisticians resolutions to report on that indicator and as well as the extension of the forest sector to include not only forestry and logging but also the forest based manufacturing such as the manufacturing of wood and products of wood and the manufacture of paper and paper products so to fill in the data gap actually at a global level FAO and the ILO in collaboration with Tunin Institute have joined forces to check feasibility of time series estimations and we are very pleased that the system is now available and will be presented by my colleague Rathiasun this is still a work in progress but we totally trust that the presentation and the related paper that will soon be published will provide a solid basis actually to further improve the employment statistics in the forest sector and this statistics will help to develop evidence-based policies to create more decent jobs to improve livelihoods of millions that rely on the forest sector so with this I would like to give the floor to my colleague Rathiasun from Tunin Institute to give you a snapshot of our current estimates thank you very much for your attention thank you Henry thank you Yongxia for the great introduction dear colleagues to quantify the number of people who work in the forest sector especially on the global scale as Yongxia already mentioned is not the straightforward exercise because the process involves several methodological challenges so in our study we start our process by define what is actually the forest sector in our study the forest sector covers three primary sub-sector forestry and logging manufacturing of wood and wood product and manufacturing of pulp and paper on the global scale there are three main data sources that can be used to be estimate the total forest related employment those are FRA database compiled by FAL the INSTAD database compiled by UNIDO and the IO harmonized micro data building on our experience under the wood forework research project run by the Tunin Institute of Forestry we found that the IO harmonized micro data is the most reliable and solid employment statistical database this is because of the consistent definition of the employment and also the systematic process that the IO used to produce the employment data nevertheless the IO micro data is currently covered the years only in which the labour forest survey or similar kind of household survey were conducted and this results in several missing data points and for the case of the forest sector the IO micro data cover only the country which is about 30% of the total country around the world and this doesn't allow us to estimate the global number of the people who work in the forest sector so with these two main challenges we developed a method to fill the gap of the missing information and we call it as the webbed method the webbed method use the IO model estimate for employment for agriculture and manufacture as a benchmark to fill the missing information it involves two main steps the first step we belong the pioneer data of the country that at least report one point of data for the employment in the forest related sub-sector at the second step we estimate the employment number for the country those are not covered by the micro data using the regional coefficients that derive from the first step and the IO model estimate for employment based on our webbed method we can say that at least 33 million people were employed in the forest sector during the period of 2017 to 2019 and if you see from the figure this is a share of employment in each forest sub-sector and total in the forest sector as relative to the total employment in all economic activity you can see that the share of employment in the forest sector is declining from 2011 until 2019 and that could be two reasons to explain this declining share the first reason can be because of the increase in productivity due to the mechanisation or the improved forest management practices in some country but the second reason can be also because we use the IO model estimate as a benchmark to fill the gap of missing information and the declining share of the employment in the agriculture and also the manufacture would also reflect for the case of the forest sector as well now we know that 33 million people were employed in the forest sector but there are two important aspects that we should zoom in first of all how many people were informally employed in this sector based on the availability of the data from 56 countries we estimate that there are at least 8 million people were informally employed in this sector and it's mainly concentrated in the developing regions like Africa, Asia and America the graph shows you the share of formal and informal employment and the graph already indicates that the informality plays a significant role in these two regions especially for the case of forestry and logging and the manufacture of wood and wood products the share of informality exists on average more than 50% of the total employment in this country now we go to the female and female employment we use the available data which are deactivated by the gender from 69 countries and we estimated that at least 3 million female were employed in the forest sector during the same time period the graph shows you the share of the male and the female employment in total employment of each country where we have the available data and you can see from the blue bar graph that the labour market of the forest sector is still male dominated but if we zoom in into the graph which might be a bit small but this is a kind of transparent overlay bar on top of the blue and the green you could see that in many countries women are likely to have a higher probability to have informal job although their employment participation rate is lower compared to the male one according to our study I would like to draw your attention on this following conclusion our estimated number underlie the importance of the forest sector for the people livelihood and also the job creation therefore there is a need to ensure that there would be the available and reliable comparable employment statistic and especially this aggregate by gender and by the nature of job and the data should derive from the employment definition that align with the international confidence labour statistical guideline and resolution our webbed method is already upon missing alternative to fill in the gap of the data that are missing or the country that are not covered currently by the micro data but we are also planning to refine the method to increase our accuracy for the future estimation from the data user perspective we also think that the additional research or the in-depth analysis using the IO micro data would contribute significantly to the data quality verification and the last point is that all this recommendation requires a long term collaboration the dialogue among different parties for example the increase the continuation to increase the synergy between IO and FAO also with the national statistical office and research institute at the end of my presentation I would like to thank the colleague from FAO and IO for this successful collaboration to complete this piece of work thank you very much thank you very much Rathir that's wonderful thank you very much Rathir and to Yoncha excellent very strong presentation there lots of figures lots of trends I mean working in a very challenging environment where a lot of data is missing but we did note the huge disparities between global north and global south and of course between male and female formal and informal sectors going to be interesting to see where these trends go as the data gets more and more accurate over time so a wonderful collaboration I think it's now time we heard from the ILO they've been mentioned several times it's now time we heard from them and our presenter from the ILO is on our far right let me tell you a bit about Valturi Katamayaki who works at the sectoral policies department of the international labour office in Geneva as a technical officer in on rural economy with a specific emphasis on the forest sector and you're also one of the authors of the upcoming FAO, ILO and UNEC report on occupational safety and health so the title of your presentation occupational safety and health in the future of forestry work Valturi, over to you thank you very much Henry and thank you for the previous presenters as well it's a really important work that is being done on the statistical side of things and especially as Yoncha was mentioning to see how the statistical information can be used to enable evidence-based policy responses of course from the ILO perspective we often look at these aspects related to the world of work from the qualitative perspective so what are some of the issues related to decent work with decent work of course we mean that people are able to work in conditions that are adequate conditions for their work that they get access to social protection their rights at work are respected and that this happened they have access to social dialogue mechanisms what we have here is that when we talk about rights at work we have what we call the fundamental principles and rights at work framework which is a very important one because basically these fundamental principles and rights those are the basic universal rights that every worker should be able to access and benefit from regardless of their occupation regardless of the country where they are working regardless of their employment status these five categories are freedom of association and right to collective bargaining the elimination of child labour elimination of forced labour non-discrimination at work and very recently included aspect on safe and healthy working environment which was indeed included in this framework only in June this year by the international labour conference which is the highest level ILO decision making body consisting of governments but also representatives of employers and workers so tripartitely negotiated negotiated processes and in this presentation I'm going to focus even though all of these are of course highly relevant to the forest sector I'm going to focus on the safe and healthy working environment and occupational safety and health aspects and one of the reasons why I am going to focus on that is that we have been working with our wonderful colleagues from UNEC and FAO on a report on occupational safety and health and the future of forestry work here we have been trying to look some of the changes and trends in the world of work and how they are impacting these occupational safety and health aspects in the forestry work and trying to have a little bit of a forward-looking perspective as well so what are some of the how are these trends going to impact impact the work I'm going to briefly run through some of the key findings this publication is not yet available we are hoping to be able to release it in the next couple of months or so and it's a big publication so this is just really a snapshot on some of the key items coming out of the report first of course the biggest challenge of our times not only from the world of work perspectives but in general the climate change it's increasing health and safety risks for forestry workers particularly those forestry workers who are working outdoors for extended periods and they are of course more prone to certain types of accidents and risks because of for instance extreme weather events that can cause as we heard yesterday in the committee we heard that there's an increase in intensity and frequency of forest fires for instance and this creates safety risks for both of course the firefighters who fight on them but also on forestry workers and one of the indeed most demanding and most dangerous forest task is the salvage logging where you clean up the forest after a disaster for workers of course likelihood of heat stress heat stress is a big topic now and this is increasing for people who spend a lot of time outdoors and also this is more prevalent in many countries where workers are engaged in the informal economy as we were just hearing and making them already people workers who are already vulnerable this heat stress is particularly impacting them and then also climate change has other aspects such as frontiers for some insects that carry vector bone this is is they are expanding and this means that there are new risks for people who may not have had those risks before moving on to demographic changes here I have just added some groups that we are discussing in the report and who all have are facing different kinds of or risks in their work for young people we hear that in some countries it's difficult to attract young people to the sector while in other countries we see a lot of an influx of young people in rural areas trying to search for work and this means of course that sometimes they may be employed in unfavourable contracts and also for tasks without sufficient preparation or equipment for instance and for elderly workers that in some countries we have an aging workforce that there are some risks related to the physical workload of forestry work for women of course we saw from the figures that in some places the participation is indeed increasing in silvicultural work for instance where we have a lot of women there is an exposure to chemicals and then also one major challenge for women is that the personal protective equipment is often designed with a middle sized male worker in mind and that may make the PPE that is being provided that may make it inadequate for women workers for example of course for others as well but a particular issue for women and also in some instances there are some indication that gender based violence and harassment might be a risk that is increasing for migrants also a group that more and more people migrants workers are getting engaged and there one of the many challenges is related to the language barriers as sometimes they are not able to have access of information about safety protocols for example or understand their rights at work and we have some really interesting examples in some countries that are using visualized training materials with pictures very clear pictures on how to for instance use safety equipment or how to manage some of the tools and machinery for example then on the mechanization and digitalization overall I think we can all agree that mechanization improves safety for forestry workers but of course this needs to come with the right training for to use some of this new machinery and tools then in the picture here we have for instance using ICT tools for training workers to face some dangerous work situation already before through computers before going to the forest to do the job GPS global positioning system can be very useful in a case of accident for instance to locate and to provide quick assistance to the worker who has an accident in the forest and then we also have some very interesting examples of using drones for labour inspection purposes so to be able to access and at least to have a look at some of the operations that might otherwise be inaccessible for inspectors to go because of the isolation and difficult road conditions for example and then finally on the work arrangements there is some evidence that seasonal temporary part-time contractual work may be sometimes inadequately covered by labour regulations and the inspection putting some of these workers in risks and as we also heard the levels of informality in certain countries and regions is very high and this means that workers may not be able to access labour and social protection so let me just finish with a couple of very key points from the perspective of the international labour organisation on how we could address this first and this is a very important point from our perspective is that it's important to put in place implement legislative and regulatory frameworks based on international labour standards this is the starting point the key requirement to enable safe working conditions including for forestry workers and this includes through the promotion of ratification of ILO standards on safety and health but also on other aspects related to some of the relevant topics and second I think we can all agree that occupational safety and health is the responsibility of everyone and to ensure that we can make use of this responsibility we need to make sure that everyone's voice is being heard and this requires strong social dialogue mechanisms where governments, employers, workers can discuss about occupational safety and health related aspects and take action in contexts where everybody's voice is being heard I think I leave it there for now and thank you very much thank you very much Valtavie really good presentation these trends are really having a very powerful impact on the sector and you can understand why people some people don't want to join it and often those who are highly vulnerable to the vagaries of the sector is very very difficult to monitor what's going on and sometimes when you don't monitor then people find themselves in kind of forced labour very insecure and sometimes very dangerous conditions which is why you at the ILO are particularly concerned so the new book I believe your publication is Occupational Safety and Health in the Future of Forestry Works so that's going to be the new publication coming up thank you very much to you and thank you very much to all our panellists in the first round thank you very much indeed give them a round of applause now we are going to move into our second panel and I'm mindful that we are significantly over time people are overrunning in their presentation so please let's tighten things up in round two otherwise there'll be no time for Q&A and it's always useful to have at least a couple of questions in so people can respond so thank you very much to our earlier panellists now let me call up our new round of panellists let me welcome Marcus Lear who is a researcher in the Natural Resources Department at the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry from Finland Marcus hello we have Umberto Navarro de Mesquita Jr who is Director of Forestry Research and Information in the Brazilian Forest Service that's in the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Supply and we have I can see Umberto is there we are your virtual and so is Vera Steinberg who is with the Forest Europe Secretariat hello Vera to you and on my right is Derek Naibor who is the Member of the FFOW Advisory Committee on Sustainable Forest Based Industries and Chief Executive of the Forest Products Association of Canada so welcome to you as well all right so I'm going to start off with you Marcus in round one in the first part of the event we learned about some new exciting data which is great we want more data looking at the total contributions of the sector to the economy at global level I'm interested to hear about Brazil and Finland working together in an in-depth study to further assess how the different economic effects that Tais and Yenshu talked about in their presentation how they're transmitted through the different economic sectors so what does this type of data reveal about the forest sector in Finland and um tell me whether or to what extent the forest sector stimulates sustainable growth and generates jobs in the Finnish economy look at that one look at that too hard go on I think thank you Henry for for the question and there thank you very much for inviting me and us to this panel and I would like first to congratulate the colleagues from the FAO to a very very interesting report and then of course also to the colleagues from the Tyn Institute and I did not look at the report of those two institutions but I will look also in that later on so in the FAO report from our point of view we were really interested to know what are these informal are these indirect costs the indirect employment that we also have in Finland I mean Finland of course is very well known as a forest sector and we are very well advanced but perhaps we need more research and here I come from the policy side I'm more interested in the data and information on the informal employment that we have in Finland so that would be very interesting to know and it was very a pleasure to work together with the colleagues in the FAO of course in Finland we have quite a good overview on from statistics Finland what is the employment but we also know that employment in the forest sector is decreasing or has been decreasing to the past years but I will come back to this later thank you and explain as a follow-up what are some of the ways in which countries like Finland and other partners can create a coherence between the forest sector and other sectors to promote economic growth for all sustainable equitable economic growth and also just giving some examples of how Finland considers or takes into consideration the socio-economic performance of the forest sector to inform national development objectives and strategies because in the end people want to see it is an investment not a cost quite a long list of questions I know, I know but you can get the essence of what I'm asking and reduce it you are challenged by time a powerful answer I understand I understand perhaps to bring it to a point Finland has been quite a forerunner in bi-economy so in the bi-economy we try to combine the different sectors sort of primary sectors but then also the sectors that use the material so the industry to combine them and we have just recently published our bi-economy strategy our revised version of the bi-economy strategy where our main aim is to get more value added out of the product in the previous bi-economy strategy we focused quite strongly on the forest sector which is quite logical but now in the new one of course we also take other sectors into consideration and what we had as a base for our new bi-economy strategy was of course our strength but then we also looked to other countries we looked to other countries how are they managing how are they doing by economy so we published the strategy but in relation to that we also published a research an innovation and development plan so there will be huge investments from the Finnish state side to invest in new pilot projects in new products and you may have seen in the main hall some of the products that are presented there so wood based products for Finland yeah I guess it was and so yes so this is the way perhaps to go forward to replace the oil based products that we have to packaging by renewable packaging that can be recycled used again so the Finns they look very much in the innovative way how to use you're smiling as you talk about Finns I remember you know I'm into my athletics there was somebody what's called the flying fin Lassiviren remember him yeah you see some people are nodding yeah it won the 5,000 and 10,000 meters in 1976 I believe anyway that was by the by Marcus for now thank you thank you very much indeed let's move on to Brazil because Brazil's participating in the in-depth study conducted by FAO and UGA about the contributions of the forest sector to national economies so let me throw this question to Umberto Navarro de Mesquita Jr Umberto I mean what do forests mean to the national economy in Brazil I would imagine it's it's significant you're the coordinator of the national forest information system would you say the results are in line with the information that you collect yes and um first of all I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to present a little of what Brazil are doing on the field of forest economy in Brazil the contribution of forest sector across domestic product is estimated from 1.5 to 3 percent of all of them in Brazil however these estimations are not official I mean we have the the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics is the government body responsible to produce these national accounts and but for the forest economy we still don't have forest national accounts beside this but to produce this information they need a partnership with Brazilian Forest Service Brazilian Forest Service produce working together with ABJ are trying to produce the first national forest account on the framework of the system of environmental economic accounts the Brazilian Forest Service throw the national forest information system organize information of the forest sector along 12 years and we have four main components for to produce this information one of this component is related with the forest resource I mean we estimate all the stocks and the flows of these stocks the variation along the time in these resources it means for wood and non wood products and also we have another component that is related with the management of the forest the policies the legislation which public bodies are related with forest management in Brazil we have another one the third one that is the related with trades and production then we we get all the information from from the production the extraction the secondary products the value that is related with this production exportation importation and all the trades related with forests and also the jobs we also have the information about the forest jobs we have all the codes organize it what we define the forest section and the last one is the related with education every search that we we quantify the number of new professionals that is coming to work in this sector to present this quantity the products we have two sources of information one it's the survey of industrial production and also the survey of forest extraction then from then we can get the information of production and quantify this and also we have the information about the national forest inventory together with information from remote sensing from national institute of space research in brazil that we can quantify the forest resources and for carbon we contribute for national report of greenhouse emissions made by Ministry of science and technology with this information we are about to produce this forest account information all right thank you very much for the moment Umberto Navarro de Mesquita Jr I did have a follow-up for you but in the interest of time I may hold that back for if and when we have the chance to do Q&A but let me move to Vera Steinberg and Vera you're representing the secretariat of forest Europe the ministerial conference on the protection of forest in Europe now green jobs and forest education well they're one of your main work streams let's talk about the trends what trends do you see in the forest sector as a provider of green jobs people keep on green jobs green job green jobs what do we mean thank you Henry for giving me the floor and thank you very much for inviting me to this very important event today yes i'm representing forest Europe today and I can say we have three main work streams one is on sustainable forest management one on forest risk knowledge mechanism and the green jobs and forest education and as it was already mentioned by Latia we see the decrease of the traditional forest jobs at least in the pan European region this was also stated by the last state of Europe's forest published in 2020 and partially the jobs are lost due to the mechanisation but also because they are moved from the European area to our countries with a lower salary level this is for example true for the pulpit paper industry but at the same time we must say that fewer younger people are entering the sector so here comes the forest education in and this is partly due for the bad reputation actually the forest sector has we have this slaughterhouse effect a lot so people want to have nice wooden products they want to heat with pellets but they don't want the trees to be cut down and we also have the situation that the sector was not communicating a lot in the last decades about the fantastic things they do so what we did within forest Europe is that we have agreed on a definition for green forest jobs which embrace not only the traditional jobs but also new jobs in the forest sector because at the moment there's a huge transition going on and we have new job opportunities coming up so our definition reads now green forest jobs provide forest related goods and services while meeting the requirements of sustainable forest management and decent work so the decency of the jobs is very important and with this definition we try to embrace the traditional jobs and the new jobs in the sector and a brief follow-up there, thank you for that so tell us a bit about new and emerging work opportunities in the future what will be expected from forest education we've talked a lot about this in the last few days to provide the necessary skills because at the moment there is a skills gap yes, thank you we have indeed the situation that we have new jobs coming up for example in forest health but also in sports using the forest in a very different way than they used to or pedagogic in the forests at the same time the expectation on the forest education is raising so we need more flexibility especially at university levels in the curriculum and what is needed actually on all levels that education is digitization there is a huge gap from what is taught in the universities to what is needed in reality and a lot of especially students complain for example that they have a huge lack of soft skills so they might have fantastic forestry education but they can't communicate it so this is definitely something where the sector has room for improvement and we have another challenge ahead of us which comes to climate change because in the future we might need to plant very different tree species in our forests but the silvicultural sector is maybe not ready to manage these trees so how to we then adapt in 20 years time to these new situations if we don't have enough forest workers already now and not enough young people entering the sector so unfortunately I have no question yet it's very important to keep the discussion and also the eye on this factor here thank you very much for answering that question and giving us some humility at the end you don't have an answer yet but hopefully we'll get one thank you very much to you Vera now to Derek Naibad Derek, the private sector people often say you can't achieve the targets you want without the private sector so what are businesses doing to ensure decent work conditions in the forest sector because some people fear that if the private sector can get away with it they will yeah in a Canadian context that's not acceptable and I think we're blessed in Canada but we have our issues of course but we are blessed with a federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms very robust laws that protect human rights minority rights and the right to safe work so that said the goal in the private sector is to make sure that every worker goes home to their family at night after their shift so to make sure that happens as the industry changes as new machinery and new processes come to bear staying on top of that workplace training is really really important I'd say the other important piece is that we're focused on is ensuring that we have a welcoming and safe environment for I think in Canada I was interested in the presentation earlier around the female component of population in Canada we're probably about 17 or 18% of the industry in Canada is female but how can we get that number up to address the tight labour market issues what are our maternity policies what are daycare policies what do transportation policies look like to help women with children and get into the workforce and stay in the workforce so and I also the other thing I the last thing I'd add is maybe that whole of ecosystem it's not just about the private sector Rob Cossack who's the dean of the University of British Columbia's forestry department is back in the corner there with a colleague of his and I saw another Canadian colleague Maria who does youth mentorship with the sustainable forestry initiative and project learning tree in Canada so there she is right there yes so it's nice to see other Canadians here from different parts of that ecosystem because we do have to be working together to address some of these issues so great thanks for that Derek a quick supplementary I mean Vera talked a little bit about the new jobs and possible new technologies same to you really I mean about the skills that will be required in the future to ensure a skilled workforce especially with the tight labour market conditions you mentioned can you share any examples from Canada on how the forest sector is evolving and perhaps with this new technology you might be able to increase the number of women in the sector from 17 where it is now to something more realistic yeah and I'm happy to be sharing the stage with my Finnish counterpart because I think Finland and Canada is northern boreal countries we challenge each other and we learn a lot from each other we don't get along at ice hockey but in forestry we get along quite nicely I really think there's the bio economy like in Finland in Canada is really emerging the mass timber agenda we say in our industry in Canada that today we have almost as many white lab coats as we do yellow and orange safety vests and I think what becomes important there is in terms of mass timber biofuels bioadhesive some of these new products and innovations I think a lot of people might not know about those and might not see themselves with a career in forestry and I think that's why our universities and other mentorship partnerships are really important and visibility does matter so if we can increase awareness and also I know and it's not just Canadian youth I think it's youth around the world want to see their values aligning with the job that they're doing they want to see conservation of biodiversity they want clean air and clean drinking water they want to see action on climate change so the opportunity how do we leverage the mass timber agenda that bio economy agenda to promote and use that as a tool to bring more people into our workforce very good thank you very much indeed and that concludes this part of our chat we're now going to open it up to you and our panellists will remain on hand to respond to your questions let me open the interaction with the audience and I know we have Madame Phyllis Menz who's the Ghanaian alternative alternate permanent representative to Faw Madame are you here I think you may say yes hello to you let's talk about the collaborative work or between Ghana and Faw looking at the forest sector contribution to the national economy I understand you have a comment about that that you would like to share with us especially when it comes to decent work and occupational health and safety in forestry thank you thank you Mr Bonsu for giving me the floor it's my pleasure to share the Ghanaian experience regarding the ongoing study with FAU Ghana is one of the participating countries of the in-depth study and looking into how the forest contributes to the national economy as we already know forests play an important role in the economy and society and it is important because it is a good it's an important source of food, fuel, wood construction material and even medicinal plants especially for the rural population the forest sector can help a country make progress towards its economic growth social well-being and environmental sustainability in many ways to help stakeholders unlock the forest full potential and to achieve sustainable development it is important to understand the sector's contribution too national economies this study also looked at the is still looking at the magnitude of measures of economic contributions on value-added employment and labor income through direct, indirect and induced effects to the GDP the gross domestic product bringing such data and statistics of the forest sector to the forefront is crucial to inform policy and investments from both the public and private sectors and also financial institutions to achieve this objective the ongoing collaboration between the FAO and the Ghana statistical service to conduct an in-depth assessment of the contribution and linkages of the forest sector to our national economy has brought to light the importance of making forest economic activities visible in national accounting matrices especially through the development of the social accounting matrix system we hope that this work will equip our forestry institutions that's the Ghana forestry commission the Ghana statistical service and other stakeholders with new and updated knowledge and skills about innovative ways to look beyond the forest sector and to contribute its economic multipliers and sectoral linkages into national strategies, policies and programmers for the development of the forest sector Madame Phyllis, I'm going to have to let you land now thank you any Ghanaian that I pause I always say I'll let you land every Ghanaian knows what that means it means I should wrap up now and leave them wanting more as we said thank you so much for that it's great to see that Ghanaians are enthusiastic partners and collaborators in this study and we'll get more and more data and it's going to be more and more accurate and hopefully more and more people can be attracted to well-paid sustainable safe jobs in the sector do we have further brief comments or questions to our panel because our panellists are here and they're also online so if you want to say something or ask a question if not I will circle back and ask more questions of our colleagues speak now as I always say or forever hold your peace and let me ask you Marcus how well do you think the opportunities for safe decent employment in the forestry sector how well is it communicated in Finland because we've heard all week that it's not done very well across the board despite the hard work of the forest communicators network and others well that's Walter is the better person to answer that from the ILO well I think it is and Walter can correct me I think it's not such a much an issue because it is very well-handled so if something is well-handled then it is not an issue at least from my side I would not see that but of course in the light of climate change and also the severe forest events that we will perhaps face in the future we also have to talk about safety in the forest sector so on the harvesting side and so on but yeah I would say it's not an issue because it is well-handled but somebody else can challenge me and tell me a different story all right let me throw this to Umberto in Brazil maybe I can put that question to you how well communicated is the forestry sector as an industry and as a potential opportunity because when I it's here in Italy or living in the UK think of Brazil I just think of one of the lungs of the world the forest, the density the biodiversity and perhaps the massive contribution I thought to Brazil's economy but you told me it was around 1.5% to 3% according to the latest figures can you explain some of the challenges when it comes to dealing with forest production and economic data especially when you want to perhaps change public policies aimed at the sustainable use of forests challenges in Brazil okay and we have in Brazil good statistics for wood products because we have a lot of regulations control to this part of I mean for national for natural forests and also for planted forests that is the biggest contribution for all the the production and also the value that is around the 15 million and also for natural forests we have about 4 billion annual production but what I think it's the main challenge in the statistics is related with non-wooded products if we consider 10 years of time from 10 years to now it increases about seven times the production of non-wooded products in Brazil and also we have if we consider the value it's bigger than this which means that the demand for non-wooded products it's bigger than what we can produce like acai like Brazilian nuts and also we have a with national forest information system national forest inventory we have a social survey what we interview people with 10 000 people that we interview the people said that for 30 37% of these people said that the forest contributes for the amount of money of for family and from this 37 15% it's more than 50% of this the money that they the contribution of the the money that they have it means that the non-wooded products have a good contribution for the forest and it's increasing in Brazil the use of that but the problem is we still we have about 60 products that we have a survey but we still underestimate the production the value and then we are working to improve these estimations because this is really increasing Brazil and there are a lot of jobs and economic importance for the people that live together with the forest and as a result of that under estimation and lack of hard data people often think well the forest is just there it's natural it will always be there and they don't value it sometimes except maybe as a resource to clear and then to plant and to put cattle on and all of this stuff we've been seeing in Brazil over the past few years although that may change who knows that's where it is seen in a few weeks time perhaps who knows I watch the news too and do we have another thought or question from the floor if not I have a follow up for Vera okay forever hold your peace Vera I'm just looking at this ministerial conference on the protection of forests in Europe what is at the very top of your agenda for that conference for you as a secretariat what keeps you awake at night how we can protect and sustainably manage our forests in Europe of course well the next ministerial conference will take place in 2024 at the end of the German chairmanship so we still have a little bit of time to think about the main targets we want to have at this conference but for sure the criteria and indicator for sustainable forest management within the pan-European area is one of the main focus areas because this is a dynamic concept but forest Europe agreed on the definition of sustainable forest management in 1993 so we are still building on this being aware that it's a dynamic concept which has to be always checked for the conditions which we have now because they are different to what we had at the beginning of the 90s so I would say this is one of the main targets of forest Europe where we also think we are the custodians this sustainable forest management in the pan-European area thank you Vera I see Maria from Canada is there representing young people in Canada and young people globally for the purpose of this situation your response to what you've heard because Derek called you out in a positive way so I'm just wondering what you think as somebody who wants to transform the sector highlight opportunities get more young people in and change the way it is perceived what do you think of what you've heard you've got a microphone to you thank you yeah I guess from a youth perspective it's just been really inspiring to hear what is going on both at a regional and high level I think as youth we have a lot of power and we need to be heard by leaders on platforms like this so yeah I just think it's a really neat opportunity to be able to hear from you guys and also get to be a bit of a voice for some of the youth in Canada as well great thank you very much indeed and you've got to go back circle back to you on that Derek so what's next at the top of your agenda at this point yeah well one of the big areas beyond working directly with youth is our relationship with organized labour in Canada I think we're a heavily unionized sector but you know our organization just recognized united steel workers as one of the biggest organized labour groups in the country as being one of our top partners last year so I wanted to add that to I think that relationship with labour although there's always going to be tension at collective bargaining time and that's just part of the game but I do think a close working relationship to support young workers and worker rights is absolutely critical it's labour crunch in Canada it's every industry is fighting for talent and we're seeing a real boom in the mining sector I think this critical minerals agenda is really taking the world over electric batteries so we are competing not only with a very strong oil and gas sector but also a mining sector in Canada that's on the rise so competing in a way that's just not around dollars but around those values and I think the more especially young people can see their values reflected in the job that they're doing and know that they're making a contribution to their community is a real differentiator for us that I think we can leverage further so that's one of the things the other thing that Maria works on and I'm a very passionate about is mentorship a people need to see themselves in these jobs and that starts with leaders in the industry and frontline workers who are going to take the time with young people to talk to them about their experience so I think maximising that mentorship and formalising and expanding that mentorship program across Canada is a big priority yeah because I think for a lot of people younger people particularly they just don't see they don't know what jobs are available they don't see it I mean when you look at other industries or the big ones that employ huge numbers of people whether it's banking whether it's the health service you know and the health service in nearly all countries is probably one of the biggest employers and social services etc they know exactly what those jobs are what they look like and what the pathways into them are when it comes to this sector a lot of the time they don't really know I mean where is the low hanging fruit what are the qualifications you would need to take what you know at 18 at 21 or if you don't want to take formal qualifications what are the apprenticeship routes and these are some of the areas that are difficult I'm sure well I was just going to say or am I going to be welcome if I'm a woman am I going to be welcome if I'm new to Canada settling in northern Ontario is are my co-workers going to accept me if I'm a gay or lesbian Canadian am I going to be safe in my workplace so as a gay Canadian myself I'm very very passionate about working in a traditionally white male industry a straight white male industry to talk about the opportunity and I take that as a responsibility but I know colleagues of mine from other parts of the Canadian population feel the same way so I think seeing yourself and Marie-Anne know this like that helps so much knowing that you have a home and there are others like you in the workforce all right thank you very much indeed for that we've got just enough time for one more response or comment from the floor otherwise I'm going to hand over to the maestro who's going to help wrap us up for the final part of this session the maestro knows who he is nope okay oh yes we do have a question or comment from over there tell us who you are and make your point briefly is he okay thank you thank you for giving me the floor I'm actually an intern here in Fawr Forest based by economy team my name is Karen Beragia and I'm actually from Canada as well the Canadians have taken over the Canadians are coming my question is quite simple it's as the DG said last time at the Uteved how can we make the jobs more attractive more sexy the forestry jobs and anyone who wants to answer can more attractive more sexy ah that doesn't mean he's sexy Marcus over your thoughts you choose the least sexy answering that nope but I mean talking of my own experience I studied forestry in the late 90s and when we started to study we were told by the professors that you will never find a job because yeah because it was the time of the economic depression and so on so all the students sitting there and they were like but I have to see that where you have to find your way what you would like to do you have to see your strength and for some it's the strength to go to the traditional way in the forest administration for some it is going to international so I think it's finding your own strength and of course that the sector can it make it says very attractive with I don't know good salary and so on but it is also where you find yourself at home I mean salary is of course a big issue but it's not all you also you have to feel like Derek said you have to feel welcomed in the community so I think it is about that and sometimes in life it is just about the small opportunity window of unity that's open you have to jump on it and sometimes it's working and sometimes not so it's not only about the industry or the sector that has to make itself attractive but you yourself perhaps as a person as an individual you also have to make yourself interested in what you are doing I don't know if that makes sense and maybe it's the job that you want isn't there you can create that job yourself yeah yes Henry just said it could be yeah perhaps I don't know I mean I never knew when I was at university studying German and French 30 years ago that there was a job called moderator I had no idea I thought I was going to be an interpreter at the EU anyway that was before Brexit fantastic okay so let me wrap up and thank our colleagues so Marcus Llea Umberto Navarro de Mesquite Junior Vera Staibach and Derek Naibach all states stay here and stay there thank you very much I was a really lively and engaging second round of panel Q&A and conversation thank you very much I would now like to give the floor to Mr Sven Valter a team leader in charge of the FAO work streams on the forest based bioeconomy forest food and nutrition as well as lively host production and trade statistics I saw Sven as usual brow furrowed head bowed scribbling away trying to find a way of highlighting and capturing the essence the energy of what has been discussed here over the past one and a quarter hours so Sven it's a big challenge but I know you can deliver thank you Henry that's mission impossible but yeah let us make and let us keep the sector attractive I mean there was so much passion here in the room and I think people are excited so I think we can transmit this message Karim you know to different people and we have to advocate and make the case for forestry from all our different perspectives I myself I'm a geographer but still I'm happy and proud to work in the forestry sector there are so many key messages to bring out and you stop me when we have to stop when we have to go I mean one is really looking into the panel the partnership we have the private sector we have academia we have policy processes we have the countries whom did I forget I mean I allow the international organisations the youth so we need to work together and I think seeing the study Taïs you presented and our joint work we are still progressing we are progressing and let's be proud of it and let's showcase that we are doing so then I noted some some numbers 1.52 trillion impressive to see you know the multiplier effect from the forestry sector so that's again a story Karim to tell that I mean we are contributing to economic growth 33 million you mentioned it so the forest sector matters employment matters and seeing in particular that we are getting even better data in future because we are working together I think that's again something we can we can showcase and then of course having all the aspects Walteri mentioned occupational safety and health and we saw that there are many trends going on we heard about climate change mechanisation but at the end what did you say it's a responsibility of all of us so that's again something you know we have to ensure when we when we talk about forestry and forest development that however decent work remains our main objective and framework in which we are operating then we went to the panel discussions and I mean was so interesting from from Finland to hear again the issue of bioeconomy we showed a film on Tuesday again on Finland and the bioeconomy so that's impressive but still Finland like other countries I mean there's this issue of informality how can we address it how can we get the information I know that Rathir, Jörg when we are working on this sometimes you ask Vera about sleepless nights so informality is sleepless nights for us to see how to get you know this data from Brazil it was so interesting to hear about yeah we have good you have good data but then there's still the issue of the national accounts of forestry which I'm missing and obviously from our team who are working on on the forest product it was important to hear you know how important the sector is demand is raising you have some good information but we need better information and that's something again where we are helping countries to do so Vera that was really the issue of green jobs I did not down the definition but people can find it on the internet but we saw there again you know this importance of forest education in particular now when we see the emerging forestry sector there are new jobs coming up and as she said you know university digitalisation there is where we have to invest we have to invest into the future and we have to communicate you mentioned the slaughterhouse effect and with our guys also here in Fawr we are trying to improve communication and again that's a joint responsibility of all of us and I think Derek you mentioned it you talked about communication mentorship spreading out you know the voice and then using these processes like bio economy must timber I think these are sexy topics we can showcase you know what forestry can do and with this we can do a workplace of choice within the forest sector so I do believe there are many points we found and which we should again communicate to the outside world but to wrap up forest employment forest sector is emerging we have trends like climate change and so on where forestry is not the problem it is the solution to it but forest employment need to provide the skills actually to tap and to make this solution a reality and to upscale good practices and it's into a transition to a new bio economy so there again you know we have new products new skills and we have new opportunities so we need to adapt but while adapting what do we need to do we need to secure safety and occupation and hails in the system in order to ensure that when we talk about the forestry sector we talk about decent and sustainable work so let's try to get out the message showcasing a sexy forestry sector so that we can move ahead all together and contribute actually to sustainable development all together Henry that's all what I can say you have delivered a Sven Varta I set to you a very high bar but you have achieved it give yourself a round of applause and everyone give Sven a round of applause thank you very much indeed to Sven thank you very much indeed to the panel and to you for staying the course so that concludes beyond numbers income employment and decent work in forestry this special world forestry week side event thank you very much indeed enjoy a late lunch and the rest of the day the rest of the week and roam and life and see you at some point in the near future thank you very much indeed