 Welcome back to Radio Rothbard, Thoebisch up here with Ryan McMacon and Man, we weren't sure what to talk about on today's show and then sure enough The regime provides as it so often does Just last night, I'm sure everyone there knows the FBI raids moral logo now what is interesting on this? I think it's from a this hits. I think a lot of good Classic Mises you topics, right? You know, we now see, you know, I know my Facebook feed full of, you know, Fox news Tucker Carlson fan boomers are talking about the weaponization of FBI the DOJ this now I think is the go-to talking point for Republicans But this is why I'm very thankful to be joined by mr. McMacon who was out there Calling for the abolition of the FBI before it was cool And of course, obviously we know the FBI has always been a political tool is a way of subverting State power and and providing additional power to DC and so Ryan what Does this look like from your end seeing? Normal people Waking up to these abuses of the administrative state in a way that we've often understood can you talk a little bit? You know, what what does this mean? What do you think the significance of this might be in the long run as again? We're seeing once again the collapse of faith in institutions playing out in the mainstream in a way that you know Seems that they keep escalating this this collapse of faith in the state Well, it's always nice to see people criticizing the FBI And to note that the FBI is a political organization that acts to support its political allies For a long long time, of course dealing with conservatives mostly They would fall all over themselves To support federal agents the FBI So much of the reason the federal government has power At at the level it has is because for decades at least since Nixon Have have run on these law and order tickets and that usually meant granting more federal power to federal agents through the FBI who were supposed to be these consummate professionals who would whip local law enforcement into shape and do what other law enforcement agencies either wouldn't do or couldn't do and Of course, there's the FBI that led the massacre at Waco Killing women and children. It was the FBI who led the raid at ruby ridge shooting unarmed children and women and The only opposition you ever heard was very muted from, you know, just what were considered fringe groups But mainstream conservatism is a great heroes Wonderful people and so the exact same sorts of people that burned down a building around women and children are the same sort of people That are at the FBI now In many cases the exact same individuals who have of course been now promoted Since 1993 to the upper echelons of the organization And one of the nice things though about what's happened since 2016 is that it's just become more and more brazen and more and more apparent And you saw that really just kind of dying in real time in 2016 When james comey clearly went out of his way to protect hillary clinton from any sort of investigation Or prosecution and you still had conservatives lining up say, oh, well james coney is a good man an honorable man And he's just afraid. He doesn't want to investigate hillary clinton because he needs to protect his family Um, it's just more naive nonsense from belway conservative types because it became a obviously apparent within months and over the next 18 months and the next couple of years that comey Clearly was just covering up for the clinton's had no interest in prosecuting him Is an extremely wealthy well connected powerful man And was more than happy to intervene to protect his friends from any sort of prosecution That's that's what the fbi's been there for for years is to prosecute the more powerless And to protect presidents and other high ranking people from any sort of real Investigation and prosecution and that's clearly how the fbi works The fbi is a washington based organization there to protect washington and its interests And so a lot because of the way the fbi has treated trump who For whatever reason since he ran for president he was clearly an insider before he ran for president hanging out at the white house With the clinton's and those sorts of people, but did something to really annoy these people And so has been considered an outsider ever since then And the fbi the cia other organizations have have gone out of their way then To even while he was still running To make up stories about russia gate To protect biden and hunter biden and denounce all evidence against hunter as russian propaganda All of stuff that's been not corroborated the fbi just seems to be there to Anything that we don't like that's russian propaganda But we'll just investigate anyone that the ruling regime doesn't like and seize their goods and Occupy their homes all of that stuff. So this idea that the fbi is a bunch of good honorable men Uh a who can't be Persuaded by politics is more obviously nonsense than ever and I think uh james bovart's phrase for the fbi Which he calls a stasi for america is uh, probably the most accurate way to describe that organization This is what is so fascinating about it. Is that you're the way that the regime has responded to the trump era, right? It's like This is all about trump like like you know trump This is this was a man who did not pardon right assange or snowed in Or any of these great enemies of the state, right? When that's something he could have done without any sort of other public approval You know, he's someone where if you look at his legacy, you know, there's nothing there that is all that different than what you would expect from You know a ted cruise or a jet bush even right in terms of policy Maybe a little bit on the edges of foreign policy, but there was not even some dramatic reset in foreign policy Right, you didn't see really any any cooling of american policies to to russia, right the great villain You didn't see any moves against you know, you had the withdrawal from afghanistan But but that was followed through by the by the biden regime. It wasn't even the trump years, right? And yet clearly the federal apparatus So and i mean i think a lot of this it goes back to the 2020 election, right? I think the continuing pursuit of trump is because of the you know, the assaults on democracy calling out The facade right of self-governance through all of the chicanery that we saw Within the you know different state changes on the ballot, right? You're just simply saying that you know the federal government really doesn't represent you is is Something that has you know, we see it play out with a lot of motivations on january 6 we see it with you know, mitch mcconnell the art conservative You know taking you're weakening his own sort of stature within the party that You know he he the base of the party that he gets his power from right that there's there's something that it is more aesthetics and optives That dry that that trump drives these people crazy and yet here you have again an incredible escalation And i i don't think that this is something dismissed for all the other faults of trump again Trump couldn't even fire falchi when he was in charge, right? But the substantive weaknesses of that trump time have fueled The regime making all these missteps And now you have this very interesting dynamic going on here, right where you have the fbi Going into florida ronda santis is florida and catching florida authorities off guard that that's i'm interested to see the way that that tension Build up right against you know federal versus state authority there I I think that is something that if if Based off of de santa's's record. I he knows how to use an issue and and and really You know milk it for everything and provide action and not just the press release for it I'm interested to see the the the dynamic there, but again, it's it is You have half the country now that has had this feeling in their gut for for now two plus years of Being enemies of the state now they they've they've put even even more fuel on that fire and I don't think they have There's there's limits to what? The hard power that they can really apply right you know that means the state, right? You know they've they've got people with guns. They've got a It increased like growing tax auditing Army, right? There's there's ways that they can attack you financially, etc. But these are all hard power Institutions that the state can use to beat down their political enemies, you know the the the the other party but There's limits to what that hard power can really do to to the spirit kind of the soul of things And I don't think they have any you know The unit party was at its strongest right when their number one weapon was the press and not state officials it was the perception of Two parties going at each other when really in the day they're on the same page And again the actions that they are taking now against a former president This is not the way that historically America goes about doing things and I again this is this is in many ways a very good trend To the extent that it exposes the regime for what it is But it is something that increasingly looks more and more like, you know, south american banana republics. I've got a buddy JP frera Who talks about like the brazilian nation of america and we're having coffee earlier today and he was talking about how like You know, if you look at some of the dynamics within brazil of like their former president bolster american politics are very Much now resembling america Brazilian politics and south american politics right where it's whoever has the power Is is oppressing their their political rival And to to make sure that they maintain that power and again, I think there's going to be limits there to how this can play off in the long term um, but again, it's I was expecting That I this doesn't surprise me. I I've been expecting for a while that You know, I I take seriously their hatred for trump But it is interesting to see it actually come about and again the the response just just says The trumpers were always more interesting than trump himself as a figure the response of the trumpers to this Is is going to be very interesting going forward Yeah, you you always have to not totally disregard just the issue of personal politics Right is that Yeah, everybody has their teams that they play for Uh, and there's ideology as part of it Uh, but a lot of the time A lot of these people they're just petty And they just like to destroy people who they dislike And so you can't just totally dismiss that aspect of it. It may just be something personal That they just personally hate trump and of course they would deny that all day long because they're consummate professionals And they're not motivated by normal things that normal people are motivated by they would never go after somebody for personal reason It's about protecting democracy and the rule of law, right? But you are right it it does and of course latin america is one of my uh, you know particular interest areas and grad school and all of that And I was always surprised Because I was naive at the time reading the separate histories of south american countries and so on so many of these countries have they have a national hero Right like george washington type of figure and but but at least half the time That national hero who everybody reveres as soon as he's out of power He gets either driven into exile or executed This is how they roll in latin america once you're out of power. Well, it's my job now to destroy you to investigate you You're not allowed to just retire to the countryside You either have to leave the country or be executed So that that seems to be sort of the the drift that the that the americans are going in but part of that of course It's it's the uh, these things it's the expected outcome of making the federal government so powerful Right. What was different about those latin american countries? Is that they were much more rules from the center in many cases and they had this caudio model where you had this strong powerful man At the center and that's what really a lot of the power in a latin american country revolved around There weren't it wasn't all dispersed through all of these local Uh states or through even just dispersed through institutions at the federal level So you had to destroy someone who had his own personal following At the federal level because he could exercise so much power and so Uh, we're still living i think with the results of this massive accumulation of power that occurred after the mid 20th century And so now that president's essentially ruled by edict now with so many executive orders now being the way they rule because the congress doesn't pass laws or Uh changed laws like it used to so now we'll just have the president do everything And so now the president has a massive amount of powers much more hero worship now even then before in some cases more personality driven but uh It it's all really the as you say The result of this this real peak in power of these federal institutions that occurred I think in the mid 20th century And that was the time where you as you note you had the press you had private organizations You had local schools really driving home how the federal government was virtuous and wonderful in every possible way and how the fbi was Just an impeccable organization and I always remember how the late paul cantor He had a great book Called gilligan unbound and he had a whole chapter there on the x-files and the x-files exam and that chapter examined a lot of a lot about the The fbi and its reputation and why were the heroes of the x-files fbi agents when the show was anti fbi, right? But of course the hero agents were odd men out, right? They were on the fringe of the fbi the fbi central structure was corrupt to the core was basically what that show was talking about But I just remember in his discussion of the fbi in general I think he really well summed up how americans viewed the fbi in the mid 20th century where he talked about a A movie called the fbi story, which I believe started jimmy stewart and And the question was how do we how do we justify the existence of the fbi because there were still old timer americans who remembered that the fbi was this new invention And really actually wasn't necessary and also was not authorized in any way by the constitution But they just hey, we're the federal government Commerce clause blah blah fbi now fine constitutional And so there was a line he quoted in the movie about like some kid asked, you know, why do we have the fbi? And the fbi agent says, you know, well billy the reason we have the fbi is because as the country grew crime grew too And now we need a federal law enforcement agency And that was all it took for a mid 20th century american who basically would just believe anything People in washington told him because that's that's how people were in the mid 20th century Just you know, they'd been brainwashed in school with the american flag and the picture of abe lincoln to just Believe that if the federal government does it it must be necessary and so, you know, the old timers still believe that But I think some of the younger people are starting to wake up About what the nature of these organizations really is even if the even if it's still very vague But yeah, that's that I think that's the roots of the current situation and has been going on for several decades now Really culminating and a massive amount of power in the early 90s and throughout the the 1980s and I don't think its power is really growing Like it was and I think it started to hit some real headwinds, but it accumulated so much power over the 20th century and you had Uh, and it wasn't even just conservatives that were really supporting stuff as uh, lou rogg was pointed out to me and it's true, of course Uh, one of ein rand's favorite movies was the untouchables. Um, actually it was her favorite show That was a show before his movie Which I mean just shows right because she loved uh, the the idea of these highly effective federal agents Attacking these irrational anti-life people or whatever Uh, just shows how ignorant and easily uh duped. Uh, ein rand was when it was any show of power She worshiped right military power federal law enforcement power She loved that because she just always imagined it was going to be used against the forces of irrationality or whatever people she hated Uh, and so there was just this huge amount of uh, just sit back and accept whatever the fbi's doing And the fact that that no longer seems to be just gospel Is a new thing, but because they've accumulated so much power they can now basically behave Uh, like uh party hacks from latin america who like fuji mori's people We just can go around the country arresting people killing people Doing whatever to destroy his enemies, uh in peru Uh, that's just how we roll now in this country. And so unless you really start to reign in these organizations Uh, it's your that's just something we're gonna have to live with for the foreseeable future But as you say though, I think the only way to really fight that Is to start getting some real pushback then at the state level And that could be I think eventually states just out and out refusing to assist with uh fbi investigations and uh with arrests And simply saying we're we're not going to help you because the fbi of course relies heavily on local law enforcement To help them out in a lot of cases, uh, but you could theoretically have just uh state patrol Just impede the fbi in its investigations in some cases And of course the feds would throw a fed and they would defund the state and they would sue the states And all of that but that's really the only way I think to really make Life difficult for the fbi and then of course to stop giving them immense amounts of cash To stink at what they do right the fbi failed utterly with 9 11 Uh, I mean just the level of incompetence is quite astounding that uh at the the fbi exhibited in the lead up to that disaster Uh, but what did they get afterward? They got a they got a pay increase. They got more money. And so that's just That's just typical for an organization. That's good at destroying political enemies But really does very little in terms of actual law enforcement. I mean the real work's done by state law enforcement Local law enforcement the fbi just shows up and usually takes the credit for the work that others do in those sorts of investigations Going back to your point about paul canter and the x files I'm now formalizing the idea of the x files being the original q psi up Right like you you can trust these institutions because while there might be a lot of bad people within it There's there's a few you know, there's there's there's those good actors that are really trying to take down You know the the child traffickers or the aliens or you know, whatever the corruption is right where we're scully in mold or go One we all go right like it's they are the storm I I think it is interesting though because You know, you mentioned about how how kind of the old timers might still have that romantic view Of of you know, american power and whatever and that's what I think it's so interesting is I think that is changing You know, I think some of the most radical people that have the distrust of the feds are again It's that that fox news boomer and again, this is the major shift of You know bill o'reilly You know being the the head of the face of fox news to tucker carlson You know, it is this interesting dynamic where in that 90s in the 90s you had You know, you had king of the hill with sort of the the the the conspiracy theorists in there you had I think sort of a little bit of a cultural distrust of you know The regime if you will and and of course all that got wiped away with september 11 in the bush administration Right and so like that that was the any any sort of grounding Uh anti regime 90 style sort of conservatism, you know completely went out of yeah completely evaporated after September 11th, but of course now all of those tools are being wielded against middle america, right and and Jeff dice had a great tweet earlier about how you know a reminder that that prison reform is never applied to trumpers You know that this is what I think is gonna be interesting is you know, what are the next steps here? Because I I think that this is not You know, I don't think this is just for show. I don't think that this is you know, something that it's going to end with oh well Gully gosh darn, you know, you wanted us to take trump seriously. We're here you know, we're doing an active investigation and Nothing's going to happen the same way with the clinton emails Now, I think this you don't take this step in my opinion if you don't plan to follow through with it Um, I've been telling people for a couple months now that I fully expect the feds to prosecute trump Um, I think there's an interesting dynamic there where you have the january 6th committee You have a playbook that We we we see so often much the same way where whether it's january 6th whether it was the attempted coup against You know gretchen wittner the the governor of michigan Back in 2020 where you know the good old-fashioned war on terror playbook where the fbi comes in identifies a a a few uh, you know online, you know extremists, you know Muslims or whatever and and then it entrapped them kind of within this broader You know bombing threat that they would have never done without the assistance of the fbi This is now being used against You know three percenters and oath keepers and you know the the the america militia right winger types, right? It much as and and so we're seeing that plate that classic playbook being used now against the right in a similar way where you know the fbi The response to the accusation often becomes the actual crime that they prosecuted on within the january 6th committee You know this cheney has been kind of slowly building this case where What really matters is less the testimony of the day but more her statement at the end kind of saying hey look we have evidence That basically president trump is talking to witnesses that he's not supposed to do And you know they were making the case for witness tampering You see within atlanta the falton county da there There's been a case being built for violations of state election law With trump's sort of infamous phone call to the secretary of state there saying that he needed higher vote totals You've seen it with the way that the alex jones trial dealing with the sandy hook parents You know they they got his cell phone, which is the fact that uh his his lawyer just oh Coincidentally leaked alex jones cell phone to the prosecution funny how that thing that happens to certain people You know that opening up new files of evidence, you know, I think they are absolutely ready To prosecute trump. I think that the uh, uh, january 6 style investigations of conservative activists or is not ending anytime soon and you know again This is clear that that they they they they see a real threat and they're going to respond to it What will be interesting to see is the response from the republican party get currently the line is Oh, well the doj needs to go before congress And explain themselves. In fact, I just saw a tweet from Andrew Cuomo, which is interesting because it's always funny You know when you have that sort of the sort of rogue democrat Who's no longer in the in crowd and then they kind of start like whistling a little bit to like their former enemies And it's like Andrew Cuomo even said the fbi the doj must go before congress and explain themselves Or else it's going to be seen as a political witch hunt. Um, that of course is not enough Right if republicans if that's the framing that republicans are sitting themselves up And it's it's it's funny because you read all these congressional tweets and you see just how much of the wording is the same On the republican side is the the weaponization of federal agencies and that they must explain themselves It a hearing in front of congress isn't going to do anything Um, it's going to be interesting to see again. What do the states do? You know all the things that you just listed out And particularly with the santas where again, if we if we look at what he has historically done He has his most interesting quality as an executive is turning The the red meat press release into action Right, it's not simply enough to criticize woke corporations But we are going to take away disney's taxing privileges. It's not enough to Criticize falchi, but we're going to explicitly stop corporations from imposing vaccine mandates on their citizens it's not enough to Talk about critical race theory and why it's bad, but we're going to act legislatively to purge it from the universe Both the college and the university system, right? How he responds I think is going to really identify How serious is the political right to this threat? If if the saint and let's put it this way if the santas does not have a credible policy response To what the fbi has done Then I think that very much is a black pill in any sort of growing Right-wing movement against the 20th century centralization of power, right? But if he is able to to respond seriously in a way To really impede what the feds are doing Then once again, we have a model that some not all red states can replicate and this creates a very interesting sort of broader trend The arizona primary last week We saw two very interesting republicans one black masters Who is is very familiar with austral libertarian literature, which I always like to see But the other one is kerry lake who is very much sort of positioning yourself as the the desantis of the west and you know the more that we have governors mansions occupied by These figures whose entire political persona is not built on tax cuts And and like, you know a good policy and again, not the same thing wrong with any of this, right? But but but less that oh, hey, I'm a I'm a serious conservative policy wonk But rather is entirely baked in their entire identity is kind of this trumpest reaction to And honestly, there's less than it being kind of trumpest being really sort of the embodiment of the sort of Rhetoric that steve bannon would use about the administrative state You're not a broad endorsement of necessarily everything steve bannon has said and done over the past but that that that ethos of You know the administrative state is the threat um, you know I might be a little more optimistic than most perhaps that is a product of of Of of wanting to you know of youth there, but The response here to this from a policy standpoint Is going to I think really say a great deal about whether some of these positive political trends are worth you know having some interest in or Whether it is complete sort of retreat And and that there there is that in that there's nothing to you know that that the lovers of power Are just going to keep on marching though the machine is going to keep marching on because again, it's the fact that their average voter is so There is opportunities for opportunistic politicians Beyond simply high-minded idealism to respond to this and again what that looks going forward Again, it's going to be the most interesting aspect of this moment Well, and another thing to keep in mind is that federal criminal law is Unnecessary A joke has no connection to real justice You can nail someone in federal court for basically anything for some of the reasons that you've noted Right is that oh, well, he's not actually guilty of anything, but but he lied once to fbi investigators So now we'll get him in in prison. So there are so many tens of thousands of unknowable pages of federal federal law federal rules Such as right if you're found in possession of a certain kind of fish you face years in prison Something you may not even know something you may have innocently Committed while fishing right that's just sort of a generic example But there are so many rules that you might not have any idea about because it has nothing to do with an actual victim Right real law has something to do with oh did I heard another person in some way and you can kind of guess If you're breaking the law or not federal federal law isn't like that. It's it's so administratively based It's so based on all these tiny little details designed to nail people And then on top of that the federal government in in its courts has basically unlimited resources So even if they can't convict you to it, they just bankrupt you And that's that's clearly their strategy in a lot of places So you nobody can win Basically once they have you in their sights Uh, maybe if you're a complete boy scout, uh, you can avoid being completely bankrupted Um, but maybe they can just destroy your reputation Uh, but basically anyone can be a victim And if it if it was a real crime, there'd already be state and local statutes against it, right? We don't need federal laws against murder Because that's already wrong everyone knows it their state statutes against it You don't need federal laws against theft And so the idea that we've got just these layers and layers of some little sort of administrative Uh, thing that you did and might have done unknowingly and had no idea and intent by the way Has nothing to do with it then in these federal courts that they'll just nail you anyway And so there is an inherent injustice there that the deck is absolutely stacked against you and unless you're a billionaire Uh, it's really hard to really even put up any sort of real defense for yourself And yet you still have millions of americans who believe that nonsense about if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear And I don't know how long that's going to keep going Uh, one of the benefits and you know, I've always said this about, uh, you're About people who claim Right non-white people who claim that the that the deck is stacked against them and then All of these people who are absolutely against the racism narrative They get it wrong. They come back and they say No, uh, the right law enforcement officials are fair and the the deck is absolutely not unfair It's not stacked against you really what they should be trying to say is yeah, of course For a lot of people the these legal institutions, especially the federal level are unfairly administered. There's bias Uh, whether in this particular case was based on racism I don't know but sure i'm absolutely open to the idea that that these that these trials are unfair That agents are applying the law unfairly, but instead they go in the opposite direction and end up defending Federal prosecutors no matter what which is just absurd And so the still people haven't quite figured out how to deal with this the tribalism still gets a lot of these people a lot of Conserve is defending federal law enforcement federal law in a minute in many cases if the target Of federal law enforcement is some guy I don't like And so that's how you end up with empowering these organizations that they do go after you or after people you do like Whereas we we've got to start being consistent on this look these people not only are the is this is the deck stacked against you But these are these organizations just completely unnecessary Right, there was no federal law enforcement prior to the 20th century. It was all justified Based on this idea that the states were too small or too poorly funded to enforce the law Uh, never true. Also not a problem for europe There's clearly no connection between the size of a state and its ability to enforce the law By that measure switzerland should be crime ridden. Mexico should be an extremely safe place because mexico is a huge country with a much larger gdp Then switzerland why isn't belgium overrun with crime? There's no continent-wide police force in europe They have interpol which is which has no ability to arrest people to to conduct specific organizations against people It has it's not in any way like the fbi It just allows these different local police forces to to exchange information That's if the fbi were to exist had to exist That's all it should do is help facilitate the exchange of of information But the fact that they have agents who can arrest you the fact that they can haul you into federal court Where the the deck is very much stacked against you um That's that's just a sign about how difficult it's going to be to really push back against these organizations But it's going to take I think a lot of real institutional pushback at the state level on the local level as well Yeah, no, and this is gonna it's it's interesting as you're seeing a play out a little bit within some of the new ride You have and a variety of different issues, right? Oh, well, you know the answer to big tech censorship is Increasing kind of federal power to break up big tech companies versus a more sort of states driven model I think it's it's going to be interesting going forward Which of those because we're seeing this shift this intellectual shift on the right um, you know for one is Is there going to be that shift actually hold up in the wrong long run? You know we've seen interesting moments in the past that that that can sometimes fizzle out Will it be trying to maintain? Is it trying to to turn the the federal government into You know the conservative, you know federal government or whatever term they want to use um, or is it again Decentralizing it is is it having more aggressive states? Can I you know instead of the the Huey long every man a king? I'm personally a fan of every every governor a king at this point as creating sort of bulwarks against the federal uh a state in that part, but they didn't get it's Whether or not this continues and it gets actionable Um, I think I think that's going to be one of the defining aspects the american politics Within the next few years and of course it's it's gonna be a lot of fun today when we see all democrat all these democratic politicians Who are going to be uh, uh, you know trying to make? Uh statements about you know, no person is above the law or you know all this sort of stuff while at the same time Again, just this You know the the the same people like I I'm looking for to Nancy Pelosi using that line Um, I think she's has in the past actually I think she was Using it earlier for some of the prosecution of trump, you know While while her husband gets off whatever he wants to do and then their insider trading all sort of stuff Again, you know the beauty of it is that this this isolated Beltway class Again, we've we've always had evil people within the the powers of central yeah within the within the regime within the imperial city, but they've never been this lacking of self-awareness This this cartoonish and again even their Like again, you know just just one more point about the Arizona things I think it ties into this is that the model now for Reaching out and getting like independent voters, you know the sort of you know, the the the theoretical moderate, right? It's no longer someone who doesn't like taxes but is socially Liberal right, you know this yeah, that that's that's the sort of moderate independent sort of class That parties are going after I think what's what's more kind of that that interesting middle ground Is like the joe rogan listener, right? It's it's the tim pool fan. It's this sort of center that they they are skeptical not of necessarily the strong ideologies per se, but of politics in general they think both parties are corrupt and You see that sort of manifested within kind of the attacks in the media um, you know Kerry lake has a very interesting yeah, which like she's like taking a sledgehammer to a bunch of like corporate journalists but that dynamic of the the the political cynic as The middle targeted voter is something that is is very interesting. I think it's a change of how Again politicians in the past have operated. I think most people still don't get this, right? I think most politicians being, you know smooth brain You know mediocrities They still don't understand the era that we have right now But the most interesting political figures are the ones that realize That they can make inroads with the politically cynical class And I think those are very interesting allies when you can if you can couple kind of the the loyal trumpets With the political cynics That is something where I think you can build a broader coalition against the worst people in america and again that that is again My need for optimism to keep keep going throughout the day That's something that it is again. I think these sort of moments are highlighting that aspect of american politics and the beauty of it is I think 99 of dc is completely oblivious to what is going on outside of it, which explains why they're so ham-fisted and and lacking of subtlety More than anything else and I I think that that presents itself in very horrifying ways. I think and We should all be terrified of what a a massively rearmed irs Can do to normal people But the beauty of it is that the more they reflex this hard power muscle the more that there's there's consequences to that that To again like that that the legit the perception of legitimacy that rothbark talks about anatomy of state That is the cost eroding that perception of legitimacy Is the cost of all this and and the more that they erode at that the more interesting Things can get in the future And I think really what the anti establishment group has to do is is take it beyond just donald trump Right, as long as just this it's this movement that's circled around donald trump and views donald trump as the savior I mean, but what a what an unreliable person to base your movement upon, right? But trump I think by accident Stumbled into this movement that he thought he could use to make himself very very popular And I think sort of ended up trying to to harness these sentiments these these grievances Where people were realizing they were being screwed essentially by the federal government That the ruling class didn't care about them and in fact hated them And you start to see that right under obama with his disparaging remarks about you know these these hillbillies with their guns And their christianity and all of that stuff and then hillary clinton clearly hated these people as well She hated half the country Right and so half the country didn't didn't like being hated Uh and trump for whatever reason seemed to pick up on that even though it had nothing to do with his prior life For his own personal ideology or anything like that, right? And so I think then he just kind of went along with it And I guess that's how he ended up being hated in washington because he seemed to be sort of speaking For the half the country that didn't like being denounced regularly By washington insiders But as if it's just trump, then the fbi will succeed in getting rid of whatever power those people might have hoped to have So yeah, you're gonna need state-level people. You're gonna need people in uh corporate america People in educational institutions Who are willing to say these things and really represent Those those people and that's going to take a lot of hard work because these organizations have really reached the point Where they're just getting rid of anybody who doesn't toe the washington line Um, but maybe the the only first place you start to begin that rebuilding process is in the state legislatures And then in the governor's mansions Maybe that's really the only place that these sorts of trump voters have any power Left, but yeah, it's it's maybe time to move beyond trump the guy I mean He's 78. He'll be 78 years old if he runs for president in 2024 We really need another 80 year old and one like trump who who appoints john bolton to an important position Who in who points pompeo appoints people like christopher ray? I mean clearly not a competent administrator not someone who could actually implement any sort of important movements So yeah, it's it's got to be a non trump thing. It's it's it's time to to get over trump, but but realize what was good Mostly an accident about trump and and try to do something Uh with that, but it's been good that the fbi's shown its true colors by its willingness to basically Investigate a guy just really clearly because he was a political enemy of the current oligarchy in charge and Uh, so it's uh, it's got to be a more sophisticated movement than we love donald trump But then that's the beauty of it is that again I if when dc gets what it wants if it removes trump from being able to run legally in 2024 Didn't they've cleared the pathway right like they they they their own actions again like they're so obsessed With with this sort of like revenge politics that they don't recognize what the next step is I can if you take trump off the board, I guess what you're gonna get You're gonna get someone you're gonna get trump as martyre figure and you're gonna get someone more confident than trump coming in and You know, it's that's that's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of it But you know as we conclude, uh, I did do see now you have some some republican congressman again outright calling for the elimination of the fbi Dr. Paul go goes are who's a very interesting member Dr. Gozar if you are need of a witness At a at an upcoming congressional hearing talk about the elimination of the fbi May I recommend mr. Uh, ryan mck makin ryan any last last thoughts here? No, I like you. I'm just very curious to see what happens next, uh, but uh, it's it's Unless the uh, the opponents of these people who are prosecuting trump can move beyond these these feelings of love and and and gratitude and uh emotional attachment To federal agents and federal law enforcement, then no progress is really ever going to be made Well, this has been ready a Rothbard so bishop for ryan mck makin. Thank you for listening and see you next time