 to accept myself from my other computer. Hi everybody, welcome, welcome to Brain Club. There are a couple of people I don't know yet and that's so exciting. I'm Mel Hauser. I use Shidae pronouns and I'm executive director here at Albrightons Belong. And this is Brain Club. Brain Club, our weekly community conversation about everyday brain life things. And today, this is not actually the title today. I just like forgot to update it because you know, brain. We're continuing our Brain Club 2022 greatest hits where we're revisiting some of the things we've been talking about throughout the year with the idea that as time goes by we have some perspective and maybe these topics mean something different later on. So I still don't like figured that out. All right, here we go. So unlearning brain rules and distinguishing brain rules from world rules is something we've been talking about most of the year and after we go through some round rules and introductions for those of you who are new to the concept because like we made it up so I wouldn't expect you to be familiar with it. I'll tell you what that is. So by way of introduction and we've got some new ground rules based on some community feedback that we have the opportunity to revamp Brain Club now that we've been growing, growing this wonderful little community. So you can participate however you want. You can participate with your video on or off like some folks have figured about it already. And even if your video is on we don't expect anything of you. We definitely do not need you to look at the camera. And in fact, we actively discourage like playing along with like the societal brain rules that tell you how to participate in a Zoom. Oh, good Kelly, I'm so glad that you have sound. All communications okay, meaning whatever format of communications most comfortable for you, whether it is on mute and using mouth words, typing the shot box, gesturing, mix and matching, all of that. And in addition to affirming all aspects of identity and respecting and protecting one another's access needs, meaning what anyone needs to meaningfully participate, we've added some additional ground rules to create this as a safe and comfortable experience. So just to stay out there for as a ground rule that Brain Club is a community education program not medical advice or a therapy group. So we're not providing medical advice or therapy. And we encourage everyone to access support groups and helping professionals and access this community where we're learning together. And if you're looking for customized education for your individual circumstances, we have discounted small group educational benefits, but for our free community education, this is about education. And we wanna make sure that we can create space and time for people to engage. So now that Brain Club's gotten larger, we just wanna make sure to give everyone space and time to participate. And we've got multiple ways to participate. So there's gonna be a part of tonight where I'm gonna play a video. And for those of you who have access to the chat box, that'll be ongoing even while the video is playing. And we'll have plenty of time for conversation with mouth words and chat box words. And we create a safe environment for people of all ages because many people participate with their video off. Sometimes there's little people and we should just assume there's little people anytime there's a video off. So we just appreciate your discretion with the topics that you share. Okay, one more bit of closed captioning access tips if you would like to use closed captioning and it's enabled all our age that turn it on, either the live transcript CC or the more dot, dot, dot to choose show subtitles. Okay, so all year long, we've been talking about unlearning. There is so much unlearning to do. And I share this pair of photos a lot because the contrast and the irony has never gotten old for me. So that's me on the left a week before I became a parent. The doctor takes care of babies, thought I knew what I was doing. And then Luna has now almost six. She thought otherwise. She made it clear in no uncertain terms that I didn't know anything about how to meet her access needs and that my environment, my medical education, like my view of the world was just profoundly inadequate. So the unlearning for me is only a recent phenomenon as it is for many people. And when we think about the concept of brain rules and world rules, the ability to zoom out and examine our own thoughts and assumptions, things we grew up with that maybe they're not the actual universal life truth. Maybe it's not the way it has to be. So what I'm gonna do is I am going to... So this is just a clip of the first time we did a brain rules versus world rules brain club way back in February. What I did was I took little snippets of most of our brain rules versus world rules brain clubs and put them all together. And this video is gonna be about 20 minutes and we can get the chat box going. And I hope you enjoy. And then we'll have plenty of time for discussion. So I wanna talk about brain rules versus world rules. Brain rules are things that we think are universal life truths, but are actually things that we made up or someone else made up and told us. And we adopted them. World rules are things that are actual life truths. So a lot of times when we flip our lids, it relates to the violation of a brain rule, which we think is a world rule. So today at four o'clock Eastern, I'm gonna be talking about brain rules versus world rules, what are they? Why are they? How do you tell the difference? And what do you do about them? If anything, so. So you heard me define in what it sounds like was our first Instagram rule what we originally met by these terms. And, you know, I suppose it's really hard to distinguish a brain rule from a world rule. If it were easy, we wouldn't be talking about this. So, you know, I think the ability to zoom out, take a look at our own thoughts about, you know, the assumptions with the things we grew up with, the things that society brain washes us to believe, really be able to distinguish. Is this truly like an objective universal life truth? Like, you know, and now it gets to a lot of physics. What is it a brain rule? It says huge implications in all kinds of relationships. So examples, brain rule. If I say no, people will be mad at me. I have to look at the camera during zoom meetings. I'm pretty sure that's like the first one looked at the camera in like six months. We have to sit down together as a family to eat at the dinner table because that's what good families do, brain rule. I should be able to do anything versus truly I have value as a human being. I have autonomy to provide consent to what I want, to set boundaries for what I don't want. There's no right way to think, learn or communicate. Or the dopamine bound brain needs dopamine. That's a world rule. Why do we make brain rules? You've talked a ton at Brain Club about regulation and dysregulation and what leads to both and the physical, the emotional, the cognitive, the social factors that contribute to regulation or dysregulation. I believe that brain rules are cognitive self-regulation. They are the things we tell ourselves to establish autonomy or control, to make the world predictable and make sense, reduce overload in a chaotic world, to avoid trauma, whether that be traumatic memories or incurring new trauma. So for example, I tell Luna like, in this house we don't drink cranberry juice in the living room because it has a light carpet. Yeah, that's a brain rule. I made it up. I did it for a reason. It's for the purpose. It's because I don't want to deal with the chaos of having to clean and the executive functioning burden of having to clean up cranberry juice on the light carpet. It doesn't make it a world rule. So now what? Let's say I identified my brain rules. What do I do? I do not need to get rid of them. So like first up, is it a brain rule or a world rule? It doesn't need to be rational. Remember, it's self-regulation. It comes from downstairs brain. Downstairs brain is not upstairs brain. We don't expect or require rationality from downstairs brain. It is supposed to keep you alive. It's not about whether it's rational. So like in traditional mental health therapy approaches that set up these objective truths of the neutral balanced thought. That's not what this is about. This is, does the brain rule serve me? Does this help me? But still, you know, you've probably formed that brain rule for a reason. It just, that reason may have run its course. But if it's still helping you, still serving you, go ahead and keep it. If not, you can consider letting go of that brain rule, making a new brain rule. Anyway, so like Luna will say, Mama, I need to eat chocolate before breakfast. And I'm like, brain rule or a rule? Jesus, brain rule. But it's my brain rule, I'm keeping it. Okay, all right, sweetie love. As long as you know, but it's not a law of physics. That's all I ask. So once we introduce that original concept, it's time to all learn some things. Hey Mel here, things are getting real at Brain Club tomorrow. Because I'm gonna be talking about shame. Shame, that painful core belief of being broken. It starts when we're sweet little loves. When the world tells us in subtle yet profound ways that the way we fundamentally are is broken. Because we should be able to do stuff in particular ways. Even though one in five people thinks, learns, communicates differently than the so-called normal brain. Brain rules, all of it, not a world rule. So first discussion of shame and that led to next imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome, to describe that feeling where like you just feel like not good enough, not smart enough, they're gonna find out I belong here, I'm a phony, like they're gonna know. What's the line between bad and ableism? Internalized ableism, because of the cultural brain rule that there's one right way to be in the world. And next we applied this to gender, the brain rules of the gender binary. So my sweet little love and I, we have been discussing this incredible book neither by Erily Anderson. I am in the land of all. Mm-hmm, and who belongs in the land of all? Everyone. Yeah, and why do you think the people who are in the land of this and that, why do you think they think that you have to be this or that? Brain rule or world rule? So from there, we went off in a couple of different directions, trying our new things in Brain Club, talking about the big picture of neurodiversity and inclusion. But ultimately we circled back around the brain rules and world rules, alerting and reimagining better life in healthcare, education, employment, parenting, relationships. Let's watch. In healthcare, given that 80% of autistic adults have difficulty accessing medical care, and so much of that relates to the deficit-based stigmatized autism narrative that the healthcare system perpetuates. Here at All Brains Belong, we've really made it a core part of our work to try to shift that stigmatized narrative in the spring. We did a free training for healthcare providers. It was actually delivered in somewhat of an oblique approach about like, you know, this is, this is how to deliver your own inclusive healthcare, but like the real deal is that in 2022, things like this are coming out from autism experts in the traditional system. This quote, we created an infographic out of a report from one of our patients shared with permission from family, that this autistic child that does not come across as quote, clinically having the separate inwardly focused quality pattern demonic of the disorder. He interacts significantly and seamlessly with parents and demonstrates empathy. Report is present. Ergo, he's not autistic. Gross. So, that thing is, unfortunately, in medical education, you're only training stereotypes. I know that was my experience as a physician trained in the usual way. This study in 2015, showing that less than 10% of primary care physicians with suspect autism, if their patient volunteered information, showed interest in people, discussed emotions and can see the whole picture. With that, this was a clip from our brain club on the brain rules of the healthcare system. We used to have one nurse for every three patients and over the course of time that I worked there, we shifted to one nurse for every six patients. So it went up steadily over time. I'd never felt so burnt out and I loved the job that I was actually doing. I didn't have time to do it well. And it wasn't a matter of not caring. I just didn't have the tools to do that job in the way that I knew it had to be done. I was doing oncology and end of life care. So these were people who really needed a lot of support and I'd be running in to give them exactly, practically, physically what they needed and get out. I was not able to provide that emotional support. I was feeling really unfulfilled in my work. So when we think about these things that are happening, I would hate to look at it as just that these are really crappy providers that aren't doing a good job. I can tell you, I think I was a good nurse. I like to think I'm a good person and I was doing a crappy job. And I know better, I'd like to see it better but we don't often have the tools to make change in that moment ourselves either. I'm so sorry that you had that experience and so, so many people have. And I think that they're like one of the brain rules that I am learning is that like brain rule is like, well, the system has to be this way, right? Cause that's how it is. Like that's what healthcare is. Like how it is here. Well, you need a lot of money. No, you don't, like, I mean, you just don't. I would say like, I prefer not to think about it as like, you know, picking up against the system. I see it more as like a parallel play of like, yeah, in order to be able to practice in a less restrictive environment and meet the needs of my community. This was about like, okay, let's ask about people. Ask the people what they need and balance that with what I need and what Sarah needs. Like, that's it. And I think almost like I remember in training, like I saw that it was like hard and that like experiences like you were describing, Laura, were happening. And it's like, oh, well, it's a foregone conclusion that like this is what it's like to work in healthcare. I think a large part of the problem I've run into is that for a doctor to understand you, you need to be able to tell them your story. And if you can't do that in 15 minutes. So I've gone kind of an alternative route where I will write stuff up like I did with you and send in a long document. Some doctors will read it and a lot of them will never see it before you get there. Then they, then it doesn't work and then the appointment because they're looking at this thing and say, do I need to read this first? So that falls apart. What I really was amazed about was when I was looking for somebody up here, they saw all brains belong. I was like reading the websites of the, oh, this sounds pretty good. And then when I started filling out the forms, I was like, wow, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. And then I sent you my mind maps and my emails and I think other doctors would have been just overwhelmed but instead you're like, oh, this is so cool. This is so helpful. And I've never run into that before. So I think that inclusivity of being able to communicate in the way that you can. Some people are probably better in person. For me, it was definitely, I need time to really think it through. Especially since I've had a long history of it. So your organization has broken so many of the brain rules that I've seen in healthcare, you know? And next we took on the brain rules of the education system. We had a panel of experienced educators talking through their experiences and the reimagining of what's possible. Our society is made up of systems. Systems are such an important and natural way of life. I look at nature as the system and I try to mimic our day to day rhythms based on nature. That said, not all humans fit into the same systems and that includes education. My years of working in schools, I fully believe that all educators do the best that they can and love what they do and that's why they do it. But that said, every place isn't for everyone and being able to have options for students that don't fit into a certain box is such an important way of mimicking nature. Nature gives us choices and I think education should give us choices too. And if we can provide different opportunities for our kids, they're gonna be able to blossom in ways that we've never seen. We also took on the brain rules of employment with... If you missed this one, I suppose it was a really great panel conversation. I think that one of the ways that I feel proud of my company is like we're a full person-centered business. So we try to like take into account the whole person and what they're experiencing. And I guess what you said about the whole person showing up in work and what that means for workplaces these days feels really important for us to be talking about. So I guess, and for those of you that haven't heard about United Way's Working Bridges initiative, we are a partnership with employers. So we work with employers to look at innovative solutions to retention. And one of those key ways we've been able to help employers and employees with keeping good jobs is having resource coordinators in workplaces to help employees who are facing different things in their life. They bring their whole selves to work and they might need support with housing or transportation or childcare or money worries or other strains in their life. And so my work actually kind of weaved its way to Dr. Hauser's work with Mel's work. And there's a lot of really interesting intersection with thinking about the needs that come up for our team of resource coordinators in workplaces. And one of the things we've discovered that often employees will come and talk to us about something that's happening in their lives. And as we get to know that person and build some relationship with that employee and we peel back that onion and they feel trust in sharing what's going on, we learn a lot about what they need in work to really be their best self. And sometimes they get that and sometimes they don't. And next to relationships, looking at the brain rules of relationships that no longer serve me. I'm obligated to talk to, insert, fill in the blank. The more I communicate with an unsafe person, the greater likelihood they'll understand me. I can make others listen to me. I can make people understand me. I am not safe until someone listens to me. The only way to get unstuck is to make someone else change. Whoa. And parenting, parenting brain rules no longer serve me. Screen time, oh my goodness. Child needs to sleep alone. Your child will participate and like what they're enrolled in. Child needs to share. Eyes are for watching, ears are for listening, hands are still, oh my goodness. Everyone has to sit down at the table. People to say please. Oh my goodness, so many brain rules. All right, so then what did we do? We said, all right, well, we know we can't challenge brain rules. Let's take the oblique approach. Let's talk about how do we have these big conversations with people who aren't quite a word yet? How do we create neuro-inclusive spaces? How do we talk about culture, neuro-culture? How do we address this without challenging people's brains because if we've learned anything in our first year it all brains belong as we reimagine all the systems that are not working for the neurodivergent community. We don't challenge brain rules. That's why we talk about inclusion here. Everybody wants inclusion. They may just have no idea what it means. The world rule is that should we challenge people's brain rules? So, wow, they flip the airplane. So, that was our year. That was our year of questioning those brain rules. So, I wonder whether this is a brand new concept or if you've been thinking about this for a little while. What's it been like for you to let go of the brain rules that are no longer serving you? Well, I will, if I can share out from the chat just the idea that it can be so isolating to think that everyone else is living life a certain way and that you don't get it. And Alexander said, finding people who get it has been overwhelming, Kelly adds. Talking to teens, there's been so many who still don't realize they aren't doing life wrong. So, they think they deserve society's attitude, so sad. Maura adds, I've been trying harder to stop and think about the underlying brain rule when I'm getting overwhelmed by something and can't put my finger on why. Yeah, that's also really interesting. So many, and even traditional mental health approaches like a cognitive behavioral standpoint would be like, well, think about your thinking and change it because it's responsible for how uncomfortable you feel. And I think about to a couple of chat rounds ago and Alexander shared about the immune system responding to things, right? And so, if you're getting dysregulated, yeah, there may in fact be a brain rule that's been violated, that's possibility. And also maybe that there's something completely unsafe going on. And that's even harder sometimes to pick up on, of like, it's not me, it's the environment. Sometimes people share that the ability, like the shift from when something happens to think that there's something you're doing wrong, shifting from that to like, there's something in the environment that's not meeting my needs or that like, is actually like, I gotta leave this environment as like a really powerful shift. So I think that it's very hard. One thing that I don't know that I necessarily, I don't think I included any clips about this that comes up a lot is the idea of like, when it looks like many people think the same thing, like a generalized shared brain rule does not in fact make it a world rule. Like it's still a brain rule. It's still like a human created thing. Sometimes when I, oh, hold on, I'm reading the chat. I think, okay, Kelly says, I keep repeating that IEPs individual education plan should be about pulling the environment to support the student, not the way the way around. Absolutely. Mia says, I always think that if I look at re-evaluating brain rules, it has to come from me, all too often others pressure to change my brain rules. Yeah, they shouldn't do that. It's a world rule that when you tell people to change their brain rules, you flip your leg, myself included. Like it's your cognitive self-regulation. The way I think it's unacceptable and makes others uncomfortable. I'd like to see if I could do something about my fear of authority that causes me to go into freeze, fawn mode. But the thing is like, it might actually, the fear thing might actually be, like I mean it's based on something and it, they may actually be unsafe. Like just steaming the thing and then it's a possibility. Christina adds, I still think it's a work in progress. I went to the doctor today and for one of the first times I was able to pinpoint some of the actual things that were deregulating me. Yeah. Like now I can accept my differences now that I know more of what's actually wrong in my environment for me. Yes. Kelly's adding the fear of authority or perceived authority. I'm so easily intimidated by others. I'm just certain they must be right. Right. That's, you've been told that it's a package. It's a lie you've been sold. And it's like, you've gotten decades of these over rehearsed neural pathways and just wrong. Impostor syndrome. Like I can't possibly know what I'm doing. Like, yeah. Christina, your comments is reminding me of a few months ago. I went to the dentist and people, I don't know if I, I was telling people yesterday that I've become a person that tells the same stories over and over again. And I like, I'm just noticing that trend. But I went to the dentist and people didn't have masks on and it was all open layout, like with no doors. And I'd take my mask off like to get dental care, you know, in my mouth. And then I heard someone in the open space cough. I flipped my lid and I walked out. I don't know that I would have necessarily done that even like three months ago. Because I've been like, Oh, dental care. I can suck it up and do the thing. It's okay. It's okay. You're okay. Like, no dude, it's unsafe. Get out of there. Alexander's adding, I read a lot today about the need for psychological safety in order to feel safe to voice dissenting or challenging viewpoints or opinions. Yeah. So let's, so, so, so I think, I think that safety. And, and, and like only the individual can decide whether they're safe. I did a, I did a training last week for, for a group where an employer asked, well, like, how do you, how do you make it so that people give you feedback? Or like, how do you make it so that people tell you what their access needs are? I'm like, dude, I can't make your people feel safe. You, it, it has, I mean, it, it, it's a culture thing. Like there's so much that goes into safety. And we have, we have a brain club about this from October. We have a brain club from October about like queuing safety in neuro-inclusive spaces. And it's, it's, it's, there's so much that goes into this. There's like top down safety, like the way I think, or what someone tells me, bottom up regulation of like, I wouldn't be in my body. And, you know, whether it's, you know, with the extent of, of, of sensory processing aspects of the environment, but also like energy, like when you have the kind of nervous system that is porous to energy, and someone has unsafe energy in a space, I am never going to feel safe. And it doesn't need to be rational. It's like, like your cortex does not in fact assess your safety. It's your limbic system. You don't get to pick what makes you feel unsafe. Reading in the chat. Oh, interesting. That's cool. Christina found a dentist helpful to neurodivergent people, explained everything before they started was a whole different experience. Oh, that's wonderful. We should connect. I'd love to, I'd love to hear about that. And it sounds like maybe someone we can add to our neurodiversity affirming healthcare resources directory. It's one of our community projects here at EBB. Psychological safety is a belief that one will not be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns or mistakes, according to Amy Edmondson. Yeah. Kelly is adding universal design can help too. Design to meet the needs, all needs or as many as possible that tells employees you care or are open to it. Yeah. It's not ready. It's not really ready for primetime. If you put your email in the chat, you can even send it as a direct message if you want. And oh, yeah. Okay. That's great, Christina. That director will be like ready to go for primetime, like maybe in like six months or the six months. But if there's something specific you're looking for, we can try to see if we have something in that topic on there ready to go. But that's right. So people, people like big recommendations. It's all just, it's all local in Vermont. People make recommendations and we personally vet all of them. We call them all up and we really suss out how people are seeing the world because for our medical patients, we feel really strongly that we know where we're sending people and that people are hopefully going to have a good experience. And there are some resources that we don't have anyone in our directory for the given resource that we're needing. And it's sometimes really, really, really hard to have a good, non-completely unsafe healthcare experience. I forget what topic. I was on, I think, what did you say? Brain rules. I remember that part. Yeah. I'm shutting my other computer off because I'm getting distracted by having two computers. Anyway. I wonder if anyone else who has been thinking about the unlearning brain rules, like, I mean, so, I mean, obviously lots of people have brain rules and like, like, like Mia shared, you know, we can't make other people unlearn brain rules, but, but, you know, sometimes like our own, our own brain rules are not helpful. And so like that's, that's the work, that's the way to control over. There's a question in the chat about executive functioning brain rules. Oh, yeah. How about the brain rule of, you know, to adults? Like when people say, you know, adulting, they're often referring to having exemplary executive functions. You know, like, you know, you're actually an adult when you turn 18, there's actually nothing else that defines adulting. But yet like it's a generalized brain rule that once you're an adult, you like do all the things and like, and, and the over glorification of independence, I think relating to that. Like so much of my executive functioning is my collective executive function. Of like, it's normal to be connected to and rely on other people. Which is why, I mean, this wasn't even, this was not the case six months ago, even. I don't think I would have been like, oh man, brain. What can't you remember? Like anything you're talking about literally ever. And now it's like totally. You know, that was just how I'm wired. Sierra. Yeah, I was just talking to two people today about the, the collective societal brain rule that working a 40 hour work week is feasible for most people's brains, which it is not for most people's brains. And that there's just, this assumption that working 40 hours a week and taking care of children and feeding and caring for yourself and keeping your house from falling down is all something that's feasible, which is not the case for a lot of people, including me. And I just saw in the chat. What about space specific rules, church, school, airport? How do we tell the difference between world and brain? And that's a really. Difficult thing for me too. Right. And I think as a PDA or. Like, I think about rules. I feel like I think about like arbitrariness. Like, I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like it's, you know, if there is a, I mean, if there, whether it's brain or world or something is like a law, you have to follow it, you know, whether it's arbitrary or not. Like. Because it's like. A world rule that breaking the law, like, we'll have consequences. them. I don't do that, right? So try not to anyway. But that's, that's what's really, that's what's really hard is is if there's like a rule that has a consequence, like, it's kind of like, you know, even even when we think about, you know, the like neurotypically biased, ableist social skills, like, I don't want Luna growing up thinking that there is one correct set of social skills that's gross. But I do want her to know that some brains do x, some brains do y, some brains do z. And it is possible that some brains, when they do z, it's going to be like a consequence you don't want to deal with. Like, I think that's fair. As opposed to, you know, this is, this is the normal and expected way to do the thing, and you're not doing it. Like, that's just, that's just not even true. Christina is adding, I finally released some of those brain rules if I have to figure it out myself. Yes, I asked someone to give me the Christmas present of finding what winter tires would work for me and book that appointment. Don't buy me things get me the appointment, I will show up and pay you to do the admin stuff. Oh, that's amazing. Sierra is adding people in power get the chance to turn their brain rules into legal rules, which aren't world rules, but function like them. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, my, my, my husband, who doesn't usually appreciate being called on his brain rules. He says, like, you know, everything's a brain roll to you like, what's a world rule? I was like, consent. You know, people need to give consent, like bodily autonomy is that's a world rule, you know? What are the, what are the world rules are there? We haven't actually covered that we just talk about brain rules all the time. Because I think having like a, like a standard, right? Like that might, that might make it helpful. Matthew, standardization of meaning of, you know, of the thing. But not actually trying to make it your own. It just is all is basically is there. That word is there. And it's going to be, you know, a part, you know, of society, where that's the world's rules and things there. But our brain rules sit as a different way or a phenomenon, a phenomenon of, you know, trying to articulate that, you know, of that world rule and try to make it our own. But the way the system is, it's like, it's already chosen or choosing things for us. So why should we, you know, have our own mindset of stuff when the world rules don't really intersect the brain rules and in its own, you know, spectrum? Thank you. Thank you. And, and, and related to that, Kelly saying world rules are human rights. But sadly, that isn't universal, right? Yeah, I mean, when you think about a lot, and I think, I think it was Kelly who, who brought up like, you know, institutional rules is I think what you were getting at. Institutional rules perpetuate systems, like systems that crush a whole lot of people, right? And like, they serve the system, they don't serve the people. And I think just like an awareness of, of that, yeah, as you're saying pedagogy of the oppressed, right? Like I think, I think that when you can spot that, that the function of a rule is to oppress, like my nervous system like feels that. And I think naming the thing is important. Yeah, some systems are designed around trying to make it more efficient, or to save money, or there's so many different things that don't serve the customers, or the patients or whatever. And, you know, I've lucked out in that most of the care providers I've had, were outside of the system. This back when I could afford it. You know, all my doctors were not in health care. So I mean, health insurance and so all my appointments were an hour long. But when I ran into the system, it's amazing the amount of rules that get in the way of being good and careful of the patient. So I totally agree, David. And it's, it's, it's hard because I mean, I have so many brain rules. I have a lot of brain rules about money. And I, from an equity lens of like, who gets to show up? I, I, I feel like viscerally uncomfortable when not everyone gets to access. And like, you're even naming the thing of like, like, like, now you can't access, you know, like, I mean, it's, it's, I just wish, I just wish that. And I think, you know, I, I look forward to, you know, the experiments for, we're trying out here to afford access to things that are not covered by health insurance. In collaboration with, with, with practitioners who want to make their work equitable and accessible to people. Bradley, Bradley says, maybe we need to amend the golden rule, do unto others as they would have you do unto them. Oh, it's almost like meet everyone's access needs is what that is. Oh, I love that. I love that so much. Because the original version assumes that others would want to be treated the same way I want to be treated, even though we all have different brains. Oh, I love that. I love that so much. Alexander says, I, I read something about that about the golden rule being a problem for cross neurotype behavior, exactly. And it proposed recognizing that other people are not extensions of us and to behave with compassion for others. Yeah. Kelly. So I think sometimes it's so blurry because for a lot of us when we grew up, people said, Oh, what you think hurt doesn't hurt or and it kind of gives you this hard to understand perception of what's real and what's not real. And it makes you not trust yourself. And then we've got all these laws that are so discriminatory. I had to go through and thankfully, I have a wonderful general practitioner. And I said, I need my diagnosis changed because I can't get work visas in some countries. I need it to go through and say, you know, pronounce ADHD, because autism didn't let me work any longer in New Zealand. And like, when we've got world rules, legal rules that are like actively oppressing us, it makes it really, really hard to trust and to know when everything gets really blurry. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. Mia and then Matthew after that. Yeah, there was something that that you were saying and probably it'll come back to me later that that I just wanted to oh, yes, with money. I was thinking one of my brain rules that isn't mine, but it's being instilled by other people is the feeling that I haven't earned any money because I've never been able to work. So I do tend to feel a sense of guilt when I spend money, because it's like, I haven't earned it. And it's like going up that the family friends would say to me, like if some if I've got something, if I got something and like, they would say, Oh, so who paid for it? Yeah, that's a brain rule. Like as though value as a human being is is related to how much you earn, what you like, how productive you are, how much money you make someone else like gross and so common. And as and Alexander's agreeing, this money seems to be a root cause of so many brain rules. Oh yes. Matthew? Yes. And you know, what I've been hearing about is you know, legal, legal rules versus brain rules, different concept. But it seems like legal rules. And the way I look at it is, you know, it's like, you know, it takes your empowerment away from your brain rules, because you're trying to do something. But that law says, you know what, it's okay. Well, there's no violation. But in actual reality, there is a violation because against you. But legal says, it's okay. There's nothing wrong. There's nothing discriminatory over it. Whereas, you know, we're also in a trans world, world rules, it's fine. There's nothing wrong here. They look at it as you know, the systems that you know, the court systems, they look at it as it's fine. There's no violation here. But to us, we are personally violated, because our minds see it differently. And they see it as you know, as okay, it's differently. But legal rules still, you know, has still some clout over our brain. Because of how it's, you know, narrative as thank you. Yeah. And I think it's, it's I think that I was gonna say, I think it's a brain rule. And I agree with Kelly, there's just some really great points. I think it's a brain rule that I need to be right. If I have to pick, protecting my bandwidth, conserving my spoons, protecting my nervous system. If I have to pick, I'm gonna pick that. And I think that I try not to spend spoons trying to shift brain rules. Not that there's anything wrong with trying to shift brain rules. But I have to pick. I have a finite a world rule that I have a finite capacity. Stacy says wondering how we can positively impact these systems that operate on brain rules without othering the neurotypical people that it generally serves, right? That's the oblique approach. You talk about something that isn't controversial. That's why we talk about inclusion here. No one will say to my face, they don't care that that inclusion is not important. They just don't know what it means. And the way they're operating is like, like contraindicated to inclusion, or, you know, trauma informed practices without acknowledging that the, you know, the core foundation of the environment is traumatic brain rules. Sarah says, they see it as everyone goes through that, maybe we see it as no one should have to go through that. Right. You know, like, I walked up hill barefoot both ways. Like, yeah. Yeah. And Kelly's saying, Stacy, I think the secret is in everyone meeting in the middle with the goal to communicate together with each other. Right. And I think that like in a truly safe space, you have to you have to the shared premise has to be my goal is to not infringe upon other people's access needs. If you don't have that as a shared premise, I'm not going to engage in interaction with you. Like, we're not going to go anywhere. Yeah. We only have one minute left me. I see your hand. I want to give space. If anyone has not had a turn to share yet, it's gonna be mindful of the fact that that we're about to about to wrap up. I have a I have another meeting at seven. Okay, zoom. Thanks for the reminder. We're going. Executive functioning, all kinds of supports for it. Well, thank you all. Thank you all so much for coming. And I hope we'll see you next week where we'll be talking again about employment. It's time for employment. So we'll be revisiting designing a life that works for your brain or designing a work life that works for your brain. Thank you. Thank you everyone so much. Bye