 Back to our show, Looking to the East. It's been a month or so since we've been on air over the holidays we took a break. So welcome and I'm back, I'm very happy to be back on the air again and to share with you. A discussion with one of my friends here in Japan and the very interesting person who's developed an international law career. So my special guest today. You can see him there is Jerry Maseki. And let me give you a brief background. Excuse me about Jerry. He is a partner at a Japanese law firm here in the Osaka Kansai area. To my knowledge he's the only foreigner who's achieved that level of success in this region that is to be a partner for a major law firm. He's a partner at Tahama Partners in 2003. And before that he actually practiced law in the United States for a number of years. So he has experience in practicing law in the United States as well as a long period of time practicing in Japan as well which is going to be the heart of what we talk about in this program this program is looking to the law. As my viewers know we often take a look at cross cultural issues between the United States and Japan sometimes political educational and so forth today we're going to be looking at that same type of thing but through the filter or lens of law. So his academic background he has a JD and MA from the Washington University in St. Louis. Before that he studied in Japan at a Japanese University Kobe University. So he was a research student there for a number of months back in 1995. Very very fortunate thank you very much Jerry for joining us today. You look very low or low or Lee lower Lee if I can say that properly with your tie on there and everything. Thank you very much to the office today or working at home. Yeah no I am going to be teleworking today but. You know I have to wear the uniform for again zoom meetings and things like that meetings with with you know clients and other people. Sure. Sure. How much of your work now is is on zoom I guess like the rest of us I'm teaching 100% online now so are you at that level as well and have you found kind of getting into the main issue have you found it difficult to carry out your business activities your legal activities over zoom as opposed to face to face which I know in Japan is the preferred method of interaction for sure. Right. You know I guess the first question there I am working probably I don't know one to two days teleworking I am trying you know to be in the office again maybe two to three days but we can really just depends you know here in Japan as you know Steve we may be entering soon into a state of emergency in that case I'll be probably mostly teleworking but right now one to two days per week and then maybe two or three days in the office. As far as you know my job and is it easy or not, I would be honest I it's actually much easier than I would have predicted. Wow, me beginning, you know, of, you know, 2020 that you know I would be spending, you know, nine months or so, teleworking I would have said wow that's going to be extremely difficult that I don't know how I'm going to do it but it's actually turned out to be I mean technology has really saved us in many in many in many industries and you know I it's amazing that that we've been able to carry out you know law firm is busy we have plenty of work and you know we're mostly able to do what we need to do. You can close contracts and negotiate deals and so forth absolutely not impeded by the fact that you're talking to people through like we are right now through zoom. No, no, I exactly I mean handling the matters, you know, legal work is very often very document intensive so that, you know, often goes through email or having meetings conferences through, you know, a zoom or whatever service. The, the, the other thing that is is somewhat impeded I guess would be negotiations I mean negotiation as you know you're in Japan is often done best face to face and, you know, courts, you know sometimes hearings get delayed. But overall we've been able to, to, you know, work work well. I mean I can't imagine if this had happened what 1015 years ago it would have been completely different story. Got it. Okay, so let's jump into the heart of the show here and talk about how how you actually developed your career. It's interesting to look at your background I thought I actually I forgot the most important thing about your background and that was that you were a consign guide I exchange student. I was indeed. Yeah, so did you know that you wanted to do this like coming out of high school or going into college can you talk about how you developed your career because I'm sure there may be some viewers would be interested in in having an international law career like you've been able to successfully do. So, my first experience is in law or with law. There have been previously no no lawyers in my family I'm the first a lawyer in my family, but you know the way I developed an interest was actually in high school my first year in high school I was in our history class and my professor or the teacher. Back then, I decided that we were going to do a trial for Alexander the great, you know the famous Greek and basically I was asked to defend Alexander the great which at the class at the time was considered extremely difficult. Alexander was quite a brutal fellow, when he wanted to be and long story short, we won the trial. How to speak. Oh, absolutely. It was, it was a thrill. So, from that point on, I thought, you, you recognize you have the talent to convince people I recognize this is something I could, I could want to put, you know, time and effort into. So, yeah, you know, I kind of knew that I wanted to be a lawyer from a relatively early age I guess high school. At the same time I was interested in Japanese I studied Japanese starts doing it seriously when I was 16 years old, and majored in Japanese in university of I had a had a major there. And at the same time, of course, with the I tour going to law school. And, you know, I, I, as my studies went on particularly in university I became, you know, a little bit torn I was like, Well, gosh, do I want to, you know, go ahead and get a PhD in these Asian studies I studied primarily literature, Japanese literature. You know, I got through college, graduated with a degree in East Asian studies then went to Japan work for a year for a design consulting firm developed an interest in intellectual property which is the area I practice now. And then went to Washington University as you mentioned earlier in St. Louis and I went there because they have a had a very unique programs the JD or the law degree along with a masters in East Asian studies. And so I went there and graduated and as a result of that I was able to, as you mentioned earlier study at Kobe University. And then after graduating law school, I worked for a firm in Chicago I'm registered in the state of Illinois as an attorney, and also as a registered farm attorney in Japan. And, you know, work here that was a Japanese law firm where were you. While you were working there were you working on domestic cases or also cases involving Japan, or both. Well it was an American law. It's a Masuda for night information. It was founded by Japanese Americans but it was it's an American law firm based in Chicago that handles the specialized in Japanese clients in Japan related matters. So yes, I answered your question yes I did work on a lot of Japan related matters and was able to use my Japanese language ability and, you know, always knew that, you know, I eventually wanted to end up back in Japan at some point so after working. You know for a number of years there in Chicago from the suit of fun I worked in our came to become a partner's incidentally I had been at the home of partners as an intern. You know during during the Kobe earthquake that was 95 when I was at Kobe University so I'd known this firm and came back in 2003 and been here ever since. All right well great. So, you have obvious experience in working as a lawyer in the United States, and for the firm in Chicago that you just talked about, and now many many years of working at Kitahama partner partners which has is an international firm as well you have offices in Well no no we have domestic, our offices are in our main offices in Osaka we also have an office in Tokyo and we have an office in Fukuoka we don't have offices outside of Japan. We do have, you know, of course a broad network of international firms in various countries throughout the world with whom we work. Okay. So given that background. What is your assessment of the practice of law in the United States versus Japan isn't really dramatically different I know when I did my doctorate degree which was on the deployment of electronic medical records in Korea, Japan and United States. I didn't know this going in but I discovered that the practice of medicine was completely different in the United States and Japan. In Korea for example, what would be diagnosed as a disease in the United States would not be considered a disease in Japan, you know things like that so I'm curious to find out if law is similar is it really quite different because of cultural differences in the United States in Japan or or is there more commonality through international law. You know, I think, like the practice of medicine, the practice of law is rather diverse right you have various areas you have various types of, you know, clients industries, of course, the legal substantive legal areas themselves. It's a diverse profession. You know, basically the way that that lawyers are that you can think about lawyers are transactional lawyers, and then lawyers who engage in dispute, you know, resolution people who do litigation things of that nature. So, I do do some, you know dispute resolution primarily in the area of arbitration but my primary work is in transactional law so that is commercial contracts. Again, I do a lot of intellectual property so licensing agreements, you know things of that nature. And certainly in international context, you know there are firms like mine in various countries around the world that were that lawyers also do the same thing. I would say that, you know, at least as far as the, the transactional practice, there are a large number of similarities I mean, I'm doing a lot of the same work now or have been doing a lot of the same work for almost 20 years here in Japan that I was doing back when I was in Chicago, which is again counseling clients with regard to contracts drafting contracts, you know, assisting them and negotiations, and you know advocating, you know, on their behalf. So that that is very similar. I think that the, the legal context the professions are somewhat different. So, if the work is similar, the professional context may be a little bit different again, certainly compared, you know, to my home country the you know the, the United States, and the city in which I work Chicago I mean the scale of the profession so they're far fewer lawyers in Japan, certainly per capita. Why are there far fewer lawyers in Japan as opposed to the United States? You know, I various reasons I think that, first of all, historically, really, until about the last decade or so, passing the bar exam in Japan was incredibly difficult it was 3%. You know, something like that it was incredible. So the bar to entry, even for students from extremely, you know prestigious universities was it was extremely high, you know, the average bar rates in the United States are around 70 some odd 6070, maybe a little bit lower now, but barriers to entry also Japanese don't use lawyers as much just culturally, or historically they have in any way as, as, for example, Americans do. Another reason is that the legal profession in Japan consists not only of lawyers, you know, in the United States, for example, let's say you want to be a patent lawyer so again I do IP. You take your bar you go to law school you take your bar exam, like everyone else there's another additional exam but you know here in Japan a patent attorney is a completely different profession. They have their own licensure. They have their own tests. It's a completely it's so it's it's more and more stratified so, you know, for example, again, in the United States your lawyer will do, for example, your incorporation of your company. In Japan, it's very rare to have a lawyer do your incorporation that is done by a judicial scrivener which is a different sort of legal professional with a different test and a different so. So, you know, I, if you know the legal, the number of attorneys are smaller I guess if you if you broaden that out the legal profession actually in Japan may be quite large but the number of lawyers, you know, at least as compared to a country like the United States is rather small. Do you think or has been your experience that in Japan, because there's more sense of community that when you are involved in a dispute. The likelihood of a negotiated outcome is higher than it would be potentially United States or maybe to reverse that question. Do more of like an IP dispute, do more IP disputes end up in court in the United States as opposed to Japan is there a distinction there at all. Yeah, I mean, I do think and certainly the statistics would bear it out that that Japanese are far less litigious than, then, again, the United States. However, again, to put that in context, I don't know that the United States may not be Japan that is the outlier so much internationally that is the outlier I think, you know, but again, even even even in a litigious country like the United States. I mean, most people most clients, if they can do not want, you know, to litigate the, the whole goal is to, when you do have a dispute is to settle it amicably. I think that, you know, as you know Steve from being in Japan a long time, Japan or Japan or Japanese culture is is is one that fosters that sort of, you know, a negotiated settlements, not going as far as you know litigation and trying to settle it, you know, through through amicable means as opposed to a litigation or arbitration. It's a view, do you think in Japan with your clients and based on your experience if you do end up in court that somehow there's been a failure. I mean that's that's that somehow you haven't been able to do what is normally done and you end up in court and both sides of the of the conflict or would be viewed harshly isn't what why couldn't you work this out why are you in court at this point. I mean, I'm not a lawyer but you know for, I've been through watching TV and so forth and all the law programs for me it's like hey great they're in court it's going to be like you did Jerry when you were in high school you know the victory and so forth. What do you think is a perception that if you are in court that it's been some kind of failure in the normal process. That really depends I you know so for example, in the intellectual property context. If someone is infringing, you know my clients, you know trademarks copyrights patents, etc. You want to immediately go to court in order to have that. So no that's not considered a failure that's really considered what you're what you should be doing as quickly as possible. You know I do think however that you know really among the parties I don't know societally but but certainly among the parties. If they've had for example, you know multi your relationship that they've been you know working together things are going great and all of a sudden there is a dispute. I think it would be considered kind of a you know a failure of the people in charge that they end up in court I mean normally if you have a long term good solid relationship with someone else and and you have to resolve your differences in court that's that's not, you know, that's what I mean as is really ideal, certainly. So, without disclosing any names is there, maybe a case that you worked on either United States or perhaps in Japan that you could highlight and talk about how you were involved between these two different cultures the United States law culture and the Japanese law culture anything come to mind here. So, you know, for example, I'll go back maybe not to a transactional case but, but a an arbitration case so are for those who may not know our arbitration is a is a form of dispute resolution, which is again outside the courts is a private form of dispute where you basically have an arbitrator who acts is kind of like a private judge or a panel of arbitrators. And it's run under the auspices of arbitration organizations that exist in various countries so here in Japan the JCAA Japan commercial arbitration United States a American arbitration so various organizations, you know, a run or conduct arbitration proceedings on behalf of parties who wish to resolve disputes. I was involved in one here in Japan a number of years ago, and it was on behalf of an American client who was in the video game industry, who yeah it was in video game industry who was working on a working with a company in China to develop an online game that was also partnering with a major Japanese video game manufacturer. And so it was a sort of a triangular dispute if you will. And sounds complicated jury. Well it's it it was. So then you have Chinese law which I'm sure is different from Japanese law and. Here's the thing. This is this is where this is where the transactional side of it did come into play of course between the parties. There was an agreement and the agreement was governed by Japanese law and everyone had agreed to our operation in Japan. So one of the great things about arbitration is that it is very flexible in the sense that you know if it's in court you had you know you can't choose the date you go to court you can't use your judge you certainly in the United States can choose a jury for example. The great thing about arbitration is the parties can, it's very flexible so you know for for your garden variety. Commercial disputes arbitration is always recommended because again you can choose the language you can choose the arbitrators you can choose the venue you can choose the time. And so, all that was decided according to contract. And, you know, it ended up in Japan and therefore a firm firm was hired and therefore I was, I was working on it with my colleagues. And, you know, that was a really interesting case because that really brought, you know, you, we got to see how the Japanese system. Particularly Japanese arbitrators, I handle this confluence of, you know, Japanese client, you know, on major Japanese company on the one side, versus, you know, major Japanese law firm, you know my firm representing a foreign client. With most of the evidence of what actually happened in the case coming from China. Oh my god. So, so it was, you know, it was a very interesting case and, you know, I think that, you know, Japan, you know, fairly unfairly has often gotten a reputation of well not really being good at handling the, you know, domestically anyway, these sorts of, you know, international problems disputes, you know, etc. So, you know, Japan homogeneous society, you know, not as used to international this not as used to international that, but but what I found was that the, the authorities here in the system work very well, or very smoothly there. Yeah, no no real language issues, which is often cited as the biggest problem, the good arbitrator. You know, we got a favorable result that that's another reason I guess why were you happy with that is a high school case, pardon, were you as happy as your high school experience with the, you know, that's a tough one Steve. That is your first one is always the most important getting off Alexander the great. You know, I don't know if you get much better than that Steve. So, I, we're running a little bit low on time there's a couple other things I wanted to address. Often on this show, in fact, the, the whole impetus of the show. And Jay Fidel, he's the one who runs this he and I met in Hawaii was to take a look at the political influence of the United States on Japanese business activity and so forth. So, Jay, in particular is very interested in how the rest of the world perceives what's going on in the United States you and I Jerry, but no, I know my old family my my son reads about what goes on. Sometimes he knows more about the internal politics of the United States than I do as an American, of course he's American but he's also he's raised primarily here in Japan. I'm interested to see Jerry what you think about not so much on the political side but more about your practice and how the last four years under the Trump administration has impacted if at all. International negotiations international arbitration and so forth or just generally how your profession is perceived based on what's going on in the last four years because because Trump has focused some of his attention. On Asia specifically. Right. Well, you know, first, you know, maybe I'll take the end of that question first. You know, as far as how the, the, the profession is perceived and again, maybe this goes back to one of your earlier questions. The perception I think of lawyers in Japan is quite different from from the United States. So in, you know, here in Japan, lawyers are sensei right very learned profession and extremely highly respected not that lawyers aren't respected in the United States but that lawyers in the United States are seen primarily as count as you know counselors, you know, people who, who basically provide consulting services like your accountants like you know their number of consultants from the business from the client or business perspective. So here in Japan, again, you're a sensei it's a much higher level of social prestige so for example here in Japan lawyers where badges you'll often see and I as a registered foreign attorney also have a badge that you know people where you know where they go in court. I would have never worn a badge in Chicago saying I am a lawyer. I wouldn't have done that but okay. So, there's that I mean there's there is a different level as far as you know, the perception of the profession as far as the effect on on it maybe particularly the Trump administration on, you know, the law there I don't think that there has been a huge influence as far as the actual work or the conduct you know how contracts are done or anything I think that when, when President Trump came in, people originally thought that he was going to be extremely good for business. He developed actually a quite a good relationship with former Prime Minister Abe. I think that things, you know, started out well and unfortunately, however, I think, you know, as things have devolved the perception of sort of the, I don't know the legal profession but maybe the United States as a whole has dropped somewhat unfortunately, as a result of, of, you know, the current instability. Unfortunately, that's been going on for for a bit now. So, you know, I think that I don't know that the perception of large but but certainly the perception. And again, we as lawyers and you know this as well to Steve, you know, we are part of the larger, you know, a business community, or American business community here in Japan, of course, and in our in our overall image I think has unfortunately not been helped by by events that are going on in politics in the United States. Well, I'll have to have you on later, Jerry, and under the new administration, I state Steve, hopefully that that damage is what in the general business conditions or business perception improves we're certainly hopeful that that will be the case. Absolutely. We've run out of time, you know, again, it just has flown by. I didn't get to some of the questions I wanted to ask you. So I will have to have you back but thank you so much for sharing your experience for those of you that are watching I hope this provides an inspiration to maybe some of our younger viewers to take up law as a career and focus on international business. Obviously, Jerry made a big investment in learning Japanese and living in Japan. I would also recommend I recommend to my students and if they're serious about cross cultural professional jobs that they need to study abroad and study the language and so forth. Jerry, thanks so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Really appreciate it to my viewers. I'll see you in a couple of weeks, and we'll have another interesting topic to cover. Looking to the east. And thank you everyone.