 Welcome to episode eight of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Zaman Dunwoa Komalo. I hope you've all been staying at home and staying safe during this lockdown. We are on day 25 of the national lockdown. Now, this evening, if you are a prospective new home buyer and perhaps you're looking to find out what are some of the things that you need to be looking out for, then this episode is for you. We'll be talking about some of the most common mistakes that home buyers make and how you can avoid them. And joining me this evening is Grant Smear, who's the director at Epic South Africa. Good evening, Grant. Thank you so much for joining me this evening. Good evening. Thanks for having me. Now, a lot of people are probably considering going into home ownership. Perhaps they are renting or they're staying at home. But as we all know, there are probably some mistakes that a lot of us who buy our homes for the first time make. I know I made a few mistakes early on in my journey. I'd like us to have a snapshot of some of the most common mistakes that you've seen out there on the market and help our viewers at home navigate how they can best resolve some of them or avoid some of them. What would you say are some of the most common mistakes that you've seen, Grant? So I think the most common mistake for a first-time buyer is assuming that your first home is a home that you need to sort of invest yourself in emotionally and it's going to be a property for the long term. I think that people need to take a much better view of your first-time home as your first property investment and look at it from that point of view that you might live in for a period of time that could be your first entry to all the starting point for your property portfolio. So to start looking at it as a property investment rather than a home for the long term. And how do you look at it differently? I mean, so some people are probably thinking, okay, I get that. Maybe I don't want to make an emotional decision. And so many of us make emotional decisions when it comes to property because it can be a bit emotional. But how do you almost differentiate or look at it from a different perspective and not just go in with your emotions? Yes, there's two things. The first thing is to take your time. Don't ration something because emotion gets you to make the wrong decision sort of clouds or give you roast into glasses when you're looking at something. So falling in love with property and getting emotional about it. If you take your time, you can really take a step back, look at a property, assess the property correctly. Even when I say run the numbers, you want to look at the potential rental opportunity that's created by the property. What sort of return are you going to get? What the expenses are going to be on their property and whether there's going to be some cash flow if you decide in the future to rent a house. Part two to that is also look at the neighborhood or the area because you want to make sure that that area is in the stage of the property cycle that is going to be positive rather than being negative. And when I say that, I mean that there's going to be too much supply in the market. So when you do try and rent out your market, I'll get the best rent. Now, you know, Grant, I know one of the other mistakes that we tend to make is not shopping around for the best interest rates. If you could tell us a little bit about that one. Yeah, so I mean, you know, traditionally, what people do is they go directly to their own bank and they just assume their own bank is going to give them the best interest rate and then they accept whatever's offered to them. So my suggestion is there's a really good mortgage originator out there that you can approach. They will approach all the banks for you and find really the best deal on the market at the moment for your credit profile. So it's very specific to you personally, your credit profile, how you've looked after your accounts, how you've looked after your credit profile and the banks will are at different stages of funding. So for example, your bank might be in a space where they don't have as much funding available. If the mortgage originator goes to another bank, they may be able to offer much better interest rates just because of where they are in their funding cycle. So it's important that you do shop around. My suggestion is just go to one of the mortgage originators that offer you very good ones out there that again, that approach all the banks for you at the same time. I mean, for our viewers at home, you'd remember, we actually covered this on episode seven of the Private Property Podcast, the importance of shopping around and using a bond originator to help you shop around and the different ways that they essentially help you by going to the different banks and even negotiating a better interest rate for you. So if you haven't watched it yet, do go back to episode seven and haven't listened to some of the tips that we've heard from our bond originator. We had a guest from Beta Bond who was helping us best navigate how you can make the right decisions when you use the bond originator. And of course, if you have any questions for us this evening, you can send them through right here on Facebook and we'll be sure to address them. So if you've already made that mistake or you're already thinking, maybe this might be a mistake, send it through and we can help you work around it and perhaps find a solution for you. Now, of course another mistake grant that people make is buying more than what they can afford. And we all know that of course, when you get qualified or the maximum amount that the bank will essentially extend to is based on your gross pay. So it's typically 30% and it's your gross pay but sometimes people don't actually sit down and do a balance sheet and actually get a sense of what can they really afford. So even if you qualify for a million RANDs, can you actually afford to service that million RAND bond? Can you take us through the importance of almost psychologically understanding the difference between what you can be pre-qualified for and how even though you could be pre-qualified for that amount, it's actually quite possible that you might not be able to afford it. Yeah, so I think again, we've got to tell people to take their time when they're going into the process of buying a home and really sit down and look at their numbers. If the bank comes back and says you're going to afford a million RAND, that's fantastic but you need to know what that's actual cost is going to be on the monthly basis. A million RAND bond at the moment is probably going to cost you just short of $10,000 in a month. And even if you're earning $30,000 in a month gross, you need to look at your other expenses because those expenses might be eating away at your ability to afford that $10,000. Adding to that, you've also got to account for other costs of ownership. There's maintenance costs, there's rates and taxes, there's levies, if you're in a sectional title or homeowner's association, which you don't account for when you're renting. So those costs don't exist when you're renting and when you move into an ownership space, the cost of ownership adds up quite quickly. So the average levy out there is 1,200, 300 RAND a month. So immediately that's adding 13% to a 10,000 RAND bond. So again, you've got to assess all the expenses not just the bond itself to understand the cost of ownership. And I actually want us to talk a little bit about that because I had it as one of the most common mistakes that first-come buyers made, that idea of not factoring in the true cost of home ownership. So you often think it's just going to be a bond payment and that's the only thing that you essentially have to service, but there are so many other added costs that you typically wouldn't think about or wouldn't know of when you're renting. And I've already mentioned some of them. So levies are one. And so even when you're shopping and suppose you're shopping in a sectional title, asking how much are levies? Because some people will find that you go in and you probably bought a place and levies are easily 3.5. And if your bond payment is 6,000, then that's quite a significant amount relative to your bond payment, of course. Now what are some of those costs of home ownership that people probably wouldn't think about when they're renting? Because of course, that's a different cost altogether, different consideration, versus when you finally actually buy your home and have to start as not just servicing the home load, but also keeping up with the upkeep of the actual place. Yes, I mean, immediately, if you're looking at a freestanding home, you're going to talk about mostly maintenance. When you're sexual type of scheme, a lot of the external maintenance is in communal areas and it's covered by the body corporate, which comes out of your levies. So let's talk about a freestanding home, you're talking about maintenance on the outside and then on the inside, if you're owning a property. Rates and taxes from the municipality. So your costs there, your refuse, water, which may or may not be included in your rental if you're renting a section title. And then your levies is the big one. And there's two parts to the levies as well. There's the ongoing levy, which is the budget amount on a monthly basis according to the annual budget determined by the body corporate at the AGM. And the second part is the potential of a special levy, which is to pay for painting of a complex or any major works that a complex needs or even topping up of the maintenance reserve, which due to the sexual type of management schemals, you need to keep a reserve in place and your complex might not have the money so you need to top it up. So you also might have a special levy. So there's a few things. When you move into sexual type of particularly, you need to dig into the finances a lot, speak to the owners and take a look at the minister of the AGM because those will be indicators of the potential of a special levy can be up. And special levies can cost fortune. If you paint a complex in a relatively large complex, I mean, painting costs two, three, four million round. So you've got to share in that cost to one of the owners. And I think it's probably one of those things that you don't think about. I recently had to get a quote for a paint job for actually two different paint quotes. One was for four complex, which cost an arm and a leg. I mean, it was in the hundreds of thousands. And the company was thoroughly shocked about just how expensive painting, and it's not even a large complex, but how expensive painting can be. And then another paint job was for one of the properties. And even that was actually quite pricey. So oftentimes when you're renting, you probably don't think about that. It might just be perhaps one wall you want to change the color of, or may, and that's if you landlord of course allows you to. But the moment you're an owner, you have to think of every little thing. And of course, one of the other costs that we actually didn't mention that branch is insurance. So if you're oftentimes when you're in a stand alone, you might pay for additional insurance because it won't be covered by the body corporate or the amount that you pay to the body corporate. So that's an additional cost that somebody probably didn't actually think about as they were thinking about the true cost of home ownership. And of course, then there's the one big one. And I'm going to confess, I've actually made this mistake and it's not having the property inspected before you actually buy the property. If you can take us through that one. Yeah, so generally you go into your property and there's an expectation that there's the full disclosure from Sella and there's a requirement that the Sella does provide a full disclosure. However, that requirement only relates to what they could have reason to have expected to have known in relation to property. So for example, if you're buying a property that was rented out for many years, that owner could never know all the issues or underlying problems that are in that property. So you do want to consider having a professional property inspector come in and look at the property and assess the structure, the paintwork, sort of everything, the electrics, everything in the property to ensure that you don't have a hidden costs coming out when you do take over the property. The issue once it further is that a lot of people rely on the estate agent to know or have known or be a professional in having known that there are issues. And again, that's not what the estate agents are trained for, it's not their skill set or their expertise. So you don't expect or can't expect an estate agent to point out all the issues. So it really is advisable and it's not a big cost considering the average property in South Africa when people are buying is between 700,000 to a million rents. So if you're looking at that sort of price point, it's gonna cost you $3,000 to $4,000 to get a property inspector in to give you a full assessment of a property and potentially give you a report that's gonna be enabled you to negotiate a cheaper price on the property. It's certainly worth that $4,000 to your $4,000 upfront investment to do so. And one of the things I think, like I mentioned, I made this mistake and I was a newbie. So I was a newbie buyer. Didn't even know about property inspection to be honest. And when I bought my initial sort of two properties, both of them didn't, they weren't inspected. I think in both OTPs, there were a few declarations of what the owner knew to have been faulty. And some of it I had actually seen when I was inspecting the place myself. But of course, there are things that you do not see. Sometimes there might be, whether it's a water leak that you can't visibly see or whatever issue there was. I mean, with myself were a few issues which luckily have not been resolved and didn't cost me an arm and a leg. But I think had I been able to get, firstly, had I been able to know about an inspection and know what inspectors do, I would have probably opted for it and would have most likely been able to negotiate a better rate for those particular properties. And both of them are already very well priced that bullishly negotiated the price down. But I reckon had I put in that extra money gotten in an inspector, I would have probably been able to navigate that slightly better. And of course then grant, there's also the issue of whether or not to use an estate agent. I mean, oftentimes some sellers might want to sell themselves. And if you're a prospective home buyer and you're dealing with directly with the seller, perhaps you might be feeling a bit wary about it or not sure whether this person is legit, especially as a first time, you wouldn't know how to best assess whether the process that's actually unfolding is what is supposed to unfold, especially if it's a private sale. How can people best solve for that? Or know that actually this seller is still going according to how a house is meant to be sold? Yeah. So I mean, firstly, estate agents do need to be registered. So my first piece of advice is use a registered estate agent to somebody that can show that you there for doing this fund certificate. Every single estate agency needs to be able to show firms to put firstly. And then the estate agent themselves need to have a for doing this fund certificate. So that's sort of the first criteria. It's not, it doesn't give you definitive answer, but at least they are complying with the act in the first instance. Part two then is a gut fuel comes into the lot. So if you're feeling under pressure and unnecessary under pressure to buy or make an offer, you know, there's no, the buying process in South Africa is not a quick process. It takes you three months to transfer property. If the estate agent put you under unnecessary pressure, I would then again, take a step back and take some time, maybe don't take a call or, or get some advice from a convening attorney and then go from there again and make a decision once you've got some breathing room. So don't be put under pressure by anybody. There's no reason to rush into and buy and just jump at a property. There are millions of properties out there. The one that gets away is not going to be the one that's going to end the world for you. And I mentioned convening attorneys, all the relationship with a very good convening attorney because they ultimately are responsible for the entire transfer process. And they can give you good advice whether the office purchase that you're looking at is very good or good enough. They perhaps provide you with an office purchase that you can make use of. And they can also give you advice on the prices even if they're not involved in the initial part of the sale. And then granted, there's also the issue or the state that, you know, a lot of first home buyers make is not negotiating. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, funny, I've got a business partner who says not what you deserve is what you negotiate. And I think that's the best way to put it is... I love that. It's not what you deserve is what you negotiate, OK? Yeah, and so, yeah, it's my pleasure, Brad. So it's very important that you do negotiate and everything's negotiable. You know, you need to understand again, you're not under pressure to buy and all the more that you assume that you're under pressure to buy, the higher the price is going to go, the less that you're chasing the deal, the lower you can push the property, the property price. We're also in a buyer's market. So this is also another realization of where we are in, not even because of lockdown, but coming into lockdown, we were in a buyer's market for a long period of time. We're going into a prolonged buyer's market now. So anybody that's looking to buy, you're going into probably possibly the best market to buy a property in the last 10 years because there's finance available from the bank. They're very keen to lend and have been for a long, long, long time. There's going to be lots of stock on the market. So lots of properties coming on the market for various reasons. People having to move to stress properties from a financial perspective. And people are very uncertain in terms of what they need to do for the long term. So there are going to be a few buyers out there looking to buy. So lots of stock, a few buyers and good lending criteria means that it's a really, really good time to start considering buying. So don't be put under pressure to just jump and buy property and take your time and negotiate. Everything's negotiable. Property prices are going to decline slightly over the next medium term. So take advantage of that, of almost the discount sale. Grant, so I mean, I'm sure that people watching at home were thinking, OK, I'd like to be able to negotiate. What would be your negotiating tips, right? Because I don't think that's something that comes naturally. I'm quite bullish in my negotiations. And typically, I'd kind of have my different facts. I would have been watching that particular property for an extended period of time. Sometimes I even know that it's been on the market for 10, 12 months, so they're struggling to sell it. So I'd come with all these things, right? But not everybody knows how to negotiate, especially if you're going to be buying the first home. I mean, I was saying in one of the other episodes that often a lot of new home buyers don't know that the purchase price that you see advertised, whether you go on to privateproperty.ca.za and you click on the property that you like, and it's going for $800,000. Not a lot of people know that you can actually negotiate that down. Oftentimes, people think it's like walking into a mall and a pair of jeans are $200,000. There's no negotiating it down. That's the price that you pay. And we're used to that kind of mentality that the price that you see is a price that we pay. So the idea of having to negotiate is fundamentally harder for us. So if you had to give us some negotiation tips, so negotiation 101, what would be some of your top tips for a new home buyer when they're negotiating for their new home? Yeah, so first thing you said there is that you watch property, you know your area. So information is always the most important part of any negotiation because you can counter any arguments with real factual information. So understanding the property trends in the area, how the property's been in the market, the distress or motivation behind the sale, why they're selling, having a pre-approved mortgage in place so that you know you can move quickly. So those are a few of the things you can do. When you're getting down to sitting across the table from somebody, usually just understanding the situation more deeply, understanding why they need to move, what their situation is, why they're selling, and how you can align your offer, what their needs are is vitally important. So for example, in a motivated situation, somebody might need funding to pay for moving costs or something else, and you can build that into your offer to perhaps assist them so they can afford to actually move their physical furniture out of the property. But in terms of offering that help, you then negotiate more on the price. So you're right, the reality is the price that's sitting on private property when you go and find the property on the website is it's a, make me an offer of, but doesn't say the offer must be 800,000 or a million man. It's sort of make, I would like 800,000, what are you willing to offer me? The other thing is make negotiation again. People are too scared to or too shy to negotiate. And I mean, for many years, I was very, very shy to negotiate on anything. And my wife is of Portuguese background and the Portuguese are very good at negotiating. And they taught me that it's all a game ultimately. So don't take it too seriously. It is ultimately a game. Don't get too emotionally attached to the property and have all the information at hand when you're on negotiating and then understand the other person's situation very well and you'll be on a very good wicked to negotiate well. And I think another tip that I'd probably share with our viewers at home is, you know, when you ask things like what's the reason for selling? Some, a lot of estate agents tend to give up quite a lot in answering that question. So sometimes kind of hold back in sharing your own reason for wanting a place and that kind of stuff and let the estate agent talk because they let away so much. So some of them will say, this is actually a very desperate seller and they've been pushing down the price but they haven't been getting the right price. So you already know that you probably have more room to push down that price a bit further. Sometimes they'll say that they're in the middle of a very nasty divorce so they actually need this transaction to go on very quickly or whatever the situation is. So you're often able to get a bit of insight about the particular property when you have that conversation with your estate agent. So it also just goes to building the relationships with the various estate agents that you're going to be talking to and who are going to be helping you find your next home. Now, Grant, I'm going to go through some of the comments and questions from our viewers at home. Remember, if you've got any questions for Grant and myself here on the Private Property Podcast, you can ask them down here below and we'll be sure to address them. We've got a comment here from Michael from NIGAR who's actually commenting on the issue of negotiating and he says, if a property is in high demand, there's a lot of negotiation, there isn't a lot of negotiation that's possible. If it's fair value, the seller will accept, which is fair, I think in some instances, the sellers and even the estate agent, they know that they've priced it just well and that's also why as a seller, it's important to listen to the insight from your estate agent when they tell you, this is kind of that sweet spot and you'll be able to get that quick sale if you price it at that level and then possibly won't be able to negotiate any further. Question from Preeti Makulaba is, how long do you estimate the buyer's market to last? So how long is the piece of string really? The buyer's market coming into lockdown was probably going on for 18 months. There was pressure on the market and it has been pressured for a period of time. There was a lot of predictions that middle of last year that it will continue for 18 months. So we were talking at the end of 2020, it was then going to look to turn. Nobody could have predicted we were sitting today, all in our homes and doing these type of calls. But I do think that we're looking at a three to five year buyer's market, maybe not as aggressive as initial two to three years, but I do think we're sitting for a long term effect. What it really relies on is how long does lockdown last for and how does that affect our economy? We've seen a lot of commentary on that, but nobody, no matter what commentary you see out there, no one really knows what the ultimate effect on our economy is gonna be and therefore how that's gonna affect the property market. Which is very true. And another question coming in, Grant, is from Yasmat Soni, who's asking, are bank sales negotiable? So bank sales are negotiable. So generally, it depends which stage they're sitting at. If the homeowner has approached the bank and said, look, I'm in financial trouble at the moment, please assist, then they go into the bank assist program. That is negotiable because it's negotiable directly with the owner. You know, once you get into a repossessed position where the banks own the property, then you're looking at a general auction. So and the banks will also negotiate on those prices because they generally don't want to sit to that stock on their books. They don't own property, they don't want the properties there. So they're starting to negotiable. Again, they look at their costing and their profit and loss on those properties. So bank sales are negotiable. You just need to build those relationships with the relative banks or the asset agents who deal with bank stock. And similar to that question, Grant, but this one is from Setu Shabalala. She's asking, can you negotiate with developers and should you try? And that's a good one because I mean, we've seen coming up and their prospectors will have a set price. Is that a price that's actually negotiable for us? Yes, so generally the developments have been in the past, not negotiable, unless you were looking to buy bulk. So you were looking to buy 10, 15, 20 units at a time. I do think that you might find now, I've got a leading to the coming market now, especially the guys who started building six, eight, or six, eight months ago where they're coming to the end of the development, they're going to be sitting with stock. Now it depends on their position and their balance sheet and their bank balances, whether they're going to be able to hold on to that stock or they're going to have to release it. So I do think we're going to get into a stage which is going to be unusual that developers probably will be starting more negotiable than they have been in the past. And it's going to be interesting because I think we're already seeing the market being heavily loaded with quite a lot of properties from developers and a lot of them struggling to sell and often some of them would, for example, offer a year's rates off in order to entice buyers to actually buy. And the moment you're seeing offers like that, you already know that they're probably struggling to sell a certain phase. And so if we were already going into sort of lockdown or the COVID era with a lot of developers having built for thinking they were going to build the next few phases and now we're going through this, perhaps as buyers, this is that right time to kind of say, you had 800,000, for example, for a one bit, let's see if we can actually negotiate. Because if anything, this is probably the time where even they are more negotiable because there might very likely not be as many buyers, even though it's a buyers market, there might be quite a lot of people who are very negatively impacted by where we can already see the state of the economy is going. So I think if you're a buyer who will not be as heavily affected, this is probably the time to take your chance with the various developers. And they're more likely than not, I think, in this era or as we kind of move as the months go on to be negotiable on their particular price. And of course, if you've just joined us, just on that point, oh, sorry. No, you can continue. Yeah, on that point quickly, just people need to understand the biggest expense in terms of owning a property is actually the holding costs. Those developers have taken, they've got financing and holding costs and raising taxes, it's really expensive within to sit on stock and just wait for somebody to buy. So if they're struggling to buy and you come along and you're willing and able to buy and you're in a position to buy, you're certainly going to be at the top of their list and I'm sure now going forward, like I said, is there's gonna be a lot of stock there. So they'll be more negotiable on their pricing. So the holding costs, once you start seeing a property sitting empty for a period of time, those holding costs are really expensive and the most expensive thing in property is an empty property. So you go after those. And that's very true. Grant, we've got another question here from Jacob Mangana who asks, how do I turn a PTO into a title deed and the procedure to be followed and the costs involved? A PTO into a title deed. So I think the best thing to do is your approach to a conventional attorney. The conventional attorneys need to take care of any conversions. They deal with the transfers and the title deeds and the deeds office themselves. So you need to find a good conventional attorney. There are several really good conventional attorneys out there. You just need to find somebody who understands the process. Be careful when you are selecting a attorney. You don't wanna go to, for example, a labor law firm who might have a conveyance to sitting in the back corner. You wanna go to a pure property law firm. And I know you had still not stand on recently SSR. So I would approach a company like SSR Inc. and approach their particular conveyance and have a look at it. Okay, we're slowly about to wrap up our conversation, Grant. But before we do, I think another mistake people or new home buyers potentially make, especially when you're buying your first home. I know the strategy when you now go into property investment and buying investment properties tends to be slightly different. And that's of course not saving for a deposit, right? I mean, it's probably should have been one of the first few that we have it. But people don't save for a deposit. If we're gonna just look at, you know, what are some of the reasons why people should even be considered saving for a deposit, especially given how banks are now giving out, you know, a hundred percent, sometimes more home loans. Yes, I mean, the reality is, if you actually look at the cost of a mortgage over a 20-year period, it is actually very, very expensive. So if you, for every $100,000 that you put down or $50,000 or $10,000 that you put down towards your property upfront, it's gonna save you a huge amount over 20 years. So, I mean, it's one of the biggest reasons. And, you know, it doesn't take long for you to just calculate on a million bond how much that's gonna cost you over a 20-year period. So firstly, it's long-term savings that does for you. And secondly is the short-term cash flow. So therefore, again, if you put down a 20% deposit, that means on a monthly basis, you are paying 20% less than you would have otherwise been. That puts less pressure on you. And, you know, I think what this lockdown period and the effect of the economy is really gonna show is people that have overexposed themselves, bought and likely to their bought properties that they really were on the edge of being able to afford. Now in a situation where their employers are reducing their incomes or spending on unpaid leave, in fact, they're losing their jobs, this is really gonna sort of show a lot of people up for their exposure to their highly leveraged assets. So you really do want to not only save for deposit, actually, but first to save for deposits to minimize the cost over a long period of time. But part two is you wanna be saving, we need to be saving for the potential transfer duty and transfer costs. So those are two costs that are often forgotten about when you're a first-time buyer, is this transfer duty, it's the tax on property over 900,000 that you purchase. And second portion is the, sorry, it's a million rent. And the second portion is the transfer cost, which is paid to the conveyancy attorney as the buyer when they're transferring the property into your name. So you need to save for deposits as one of those transfer costs and transfer duties. And that's actually also one of the mistakes I made when I bought. I didn't realize that when you're buying a bonded property, so when you're using a home loan to buy as opposed to buying as a cash buyer, there are actually two systems that you use. And I hadn't factored in the bond registration attorney. And it's because at the time, I simply just did not know. And I remember at the time I was buying two properties that I bought and I had two attorneys sending me their invoice, so I was aware of them. And then all of a sudden I had a third attorney sending me an invoice and I thought, wait, what's this invoice for? And then a fourth invoice coming in. And for a moment, I actually thought I was being scammed because they had all my details in this invoice and I had to call them up and they, the nice things that were quite sweet, were explaining that no, so this is your first property because you're buying it via bond, there's going to be a transferring attorney, so those guys are your transferring attorneys, we are the bond registration attorneys, and this is what we do. And luckily I had some reserves that I could tap into to pay for those, for the extra attorneys, but if you don't budget for it, you very likely won't be able to pay for them. And I mean, those two properties were both very good properties and really good deal. And I'm just really fortunate that I didn't, for example, have to then go take a home loan to be paying for, I mean, go take a personal loan to be paying for conveyance of costs, because that's also something you don't want to have to do. You don't want to have to take out a personal loan, whether it's for the deposit or for the conveyance of costs because the interest rates on that are actually so high. Grant, before I let you go, any other last tips that you have for viewers at home who are looking into buying their first home and don't want to make any mistake that could cost them money down the line? No, I think, you know, again, I think I started with it, is don't get too emotional about it. Don't rush into a property, you know, it's for the long term. And I really do think that people that are first-time buyers need to consider their first home actually as a first-investment property, despite the fact that they live there for a period of time. That's going to be your future investment and move on from there. So don't get emotional and take your time on buying. Grant, thank you so much for joining me. That's Grant Smith, the director at Epic South Africa. And this was episode eight of the Private Property Podcast. I've been your host, Samandonga Komal. Of course, remember, if you want to, or if you have any buying, selling, or rental needs, you can go onto our website on www.privateproperty.co.z. Until tomorrow, have a great evening, stay home and stay safe. Goodbye.