 ambition, and slightly nervous hope, is that after I show you the video and tell you the story of the video, I'm going to attempt very tentatively to consider how our concerns are put in their place and on a different scale for human rights concerns. Their use is a lot different than fair treatment and being imprisoned, giving birth in prison. We are an extremely important human and social issue that we represent here. These are more extreme and even more ambitious and even more possibly risky. I would like to make a connection. I would like to try to make some tentative connection between the right to fair use of literary material, like poetry, and the right to human freedoms and to continue the right freedom of expression. And I do want to do it quite intimately. So at the beginning of this disk, I think we're a little bit ways into it with that. The favorite poem project consisted of me inviting Americans to write a few sentences. It was not okay. It was to write a few sentences about a poem that they liked. If we go right to the beginning of the video, my advertising budget is about $5. We got tens of thousands of letters in emails. And the project produced a couple of books. The book Americans' Favorite Poems with an apostrophe F and the S is now in its 17th or 18th printing. W. W. Norton has done very well with that book. The other book, Invitation of Poetry, comes with the DVD that has these segments on it. I also urge you to go to favoritepoem.org. Poem, not poet, and sing it, or favoritepoem.org. And you'll see a construction worker reading a Walt Whitman poem and talking about why he likes that Whitman poem. You'll see a Cambodian-American immigrant teenager in San Jose, the kind of a valley girl way of speaking, talk about her family's horrendous experiences in Cambodia, and then she reads a Langston Hughes poem and talks about the Langston Hughes poem. You'll see a Canadian immigrant talk about a Sylvia Plath poem where it means to him. These segments were about five minutes long. And the video I'm about to show you was suppressed for about 10 years. A year ago, thanks to Jennifer Urban, Sherman's disease organization, the Samuelson Center at Old Paul Law School in California, the video is no longer suppressed. It's now where it belongs, on the other ones on the website. So in this case, the lawyers are heroes. I've got pro bono representation for the bigger poem project from Jennifer Urban, and I've also got a free education in matters of copyright and fair use. So rather than tell you the story, that's the background of the story. I think the next thing I'd like to do is if we just bring the lights down. The young man is named Todd Helms. The poem is by Kennedy Cullen, and I'll show you the video, and then I'll tell you why the video could not be seen for 10 or 11 years. It's where I'm all by county public. I doubt not God is good, well-meaning, kind. And if he said the quibble could tell why the little buried mole continues to lie, why flesh that mirrors someone someday died. May plainly as important tactics as baited by the fickle fruit declare if merely group of priests to insistence to scruple up the never-ending sin. And scruble his ways are and immune to the cataclysm by mind and scruble, how he cares to slightly understand what awful brain compels his awful hand. Yet do I marvel at this curious thing, to make a poor black and living sin? My name is Todd Helms. I don't have anything else to hand out, but I don't have any labels to get anybody. You've got my name, so you know how to call me if you see me in the street, and that's about it. I am 19 years old. I don't do much with any people, and then really my parents don't take care of me. I guess I'm a student. I spend most of my time reading, but my passion is writing. Sometimes I sit down in front of my writing pad and I don't feel like I'm qualified to write because I haven't read enough, so I'll put the pad down through the book. But I love to write. I hope that when you have to be as eloquent as county color. When I first read The Do I Marvel, I didn't know what it meant. I had to take the piece of paper home that it was written on and look up all the illusions to ageing mythology and that kind of thing and figure out what it meant. So in the beginning it was just kind of me trying to figure out a poem. I wasn't really good at deciphering poetry. After I understood everything that was being said in the poem, it was almost a pippiness. I knew what county color was talking about, how he felt so isolated. I've been called nigger. I've been called jumble button. I've been called coon. Before I even got into high school, I had heard all these names. So there was that. After I had explored the whole black thing all the way, I knew that I was isolated in other ways. I've always known the fact that I'm gay doesn't help. When I was younger, someone told me I had a really high achievement that didn't help either. I always kind of felt like I was a facade. I don't know if it was so much that I was ostracized by anyone, but I think because of the knowledge of who I was, black, gay, whatever, I kind of pulled myself out. Religion has an incredible significance in my life. Mostly because of my family. I believed that God was on my side, that God was inside of me and totally accessible to me. I prayed every night. I prayed every meal. I wept in church. And that was how I felt all throughout my childhood. God was personal to me. I felt a change in my relationship with God, probably, honestly, when I was going into the 8th grade, I had a lot of time to think about God and think about what's been really with me during those times when I was being teased and called name. And God didn't seem quite so personal anymore. There were discussions between me, my mother, and my grandmother about my religion, about my sexuality. They very firmly believed that being gay isn't a healthy thing and that I shouldn't be gay. I felt like Cullen had touched upon all the things that I wanted to say, all the things that I was feeling and couldn't express as eloquently as he. I realized that he was saying everything that I wanted to say, that I wanted to say to my mother, that I wanted to say to the people in all of my classes in high school about how hard it was to be a certain way and not be able to talk to people about it. That night God was good, well-meaning, Cullen. And if he stood to quibble, could tell why the little buried mole continues long, why flesh that muralsim must someday die. Make plain the reason for the time that this is made by the fickle fruit. Declare if you're the group of freesty and sycophants who struggle to never even stand. And scruble is what is already new to cataclysm by mind too strong to pay care to slightly understand, but awful brain compels his awful hand. Yet do I marvel at this serious thing? To make a point, black, indigent saying. Apologize to the quality disrepresentation of the Senate video. My executive producer, Juanita Anderson, who's also the director of this video, made very high quality media. This is partly because I made the DVD myself the other day and if you go to the website, you'll see the quality of these things. I feel I owe it to Juanita to say that. The book, American's favorite poems, published in Robert B. 1999 or 2000. Each poem, and by the way, it's still selling, each poem in that book is accompanied by one, two, three, four quotations from letters people wrote about those poems. And I excluded from the videos and from the letters no poets, no professors of poetry, no liberal critics. It's all quote, ordinary end quote people. And in that book, we print the county column poem. We got permission from the Ida Cullen estate, represented by Thompson and Thompson. We found them by looking at other anthologies recorded for poem. And they gave us a price that was like $250 or something. We paid it and we had to form. And in the book, where the poem was printed, we quote Todd Helms, and I believe it's just one sentence Todd Helms says, I am black and gay, and county Cullen was black and gay. We neglected when we asked for permission for the county Cullen poem. We neglected to ask for permission for other media, just ask for permission for the book. As a result, it was necessary when we made these videos, and they are cool. I really encourage you to go to favoritefoam.org or to get invitations of poetry. In most cases, we pay a little bit more or nothing more in the publisher about the form of the media. Thompson and Thompson didn't answer us, and then finally, we got back a letter from Patricia Thompson of Thompson and Thompson saying, this is an ethnology. To say that county Cullen is gay, if we had known what that man was gonna say in that book of yours, we never would have given permission. So in short, I had documentary evidence that the reason that permission was denied to use the video was it was explicitly homophobic. There's a biography of county Cullen that's about to be appeared by Charles Molesworth. I read some of it, in fact, I helped Charles Molesworth with some of his permission problems in relation to this. County Cullen, I think it remains the most elaborate and famous marriage in the history of Harlem, it's like the royal marriage. He married W.E.B. Du Bois's daughter, and it's also famous that that marriage ended within months. And there's a man with whom county Cullen has a very long relationship and interest in a lateness life, he married Ida Cullen. All I could do was keep writing letters to Patricia Thompson. I checked with Juanita, the producer, to get permission. I said, look, we've sent you this video, let me send it to you again. Anything you don't like in the video, which doesn't say anything about county Cullen's sexuality, we'll take out, we'll edit it. And imagine my happen here from this young guy, Todd Helms, in the video he says, I thought I was always pushed aside. I was always pushed aside, and he writes to me, he says, I've seen these videos on the web in the book. I know they shot mine. I have to write him a letter saying we can't use Joyce. I even had a phone conversation with Patricia Thompson at one point where I tried my best, and she said to my client, this is like a Holocaust. And then it was silence for many, many years. Then the Poetry Foundation asked me to serve on a task force of 10 people who were to meet and talk about intellectual property issues and fair use of poetry. And I said, I would do that on one condition. I really don't like being on committees, I don't like task forces, I hate meetings, but I will do this if the first thing we do is watch this video. Everybody in that task force on intellectual property would begin by seeing this video. That turns out to be one of the better ideas I ever had because Jennifer Irvin, the attorney who is the director of the children's organization, the Samuelson Center, as some people are about the video, Jennifer was moved, I think, to tears. And she told me, I'm gonna give you pro bono representation for the favorite font project. And we will go into this case. And Paracordoglu and John Myers, who's students at all at the time, did a lot of research. I learned that in each of the district courts that might be involved, Washington, D.C., where the favorite font project originated, New York, where Patricia Thompson was, I'm in Boston, I forget what the different courts were. Each court had very, very different attitudes and definitions of fair use. I learned what the three or four different factors and fair use are, and they're way different than the different courts. I learned that the fact that the young man beats the poem twice, once at the beginning, once at the end, might help us or might hurt us depending upon what legal interpretation it takes place. So it became quite clear to me that as the fair use, nobody knows where it is. It's an extremely ambiguous, devolving and evolving concept. I also learned that the copyright was not the property of either Collins' state. Copyright is a property of an organization called the Amistad Center to Lane University in New Orleans. And my heart leapt up when I learned that the Amistad Center owned the copyright because I've earned my dread as a teacher all my life. I've been around universities a lot and I know many supposed things about universities. But I also know how to talk to people at universities and I know there are certain principles and one of them is that people have copyright information into no things that were on the side of scholarship and indeed the Amistad's mission was to encourage scholarship and let me add at this point that my main concern was not for Todd Helms. My main concern was not for the favorite poem project. My concern in this is for County Cullen, the artist. The artist. County Cullen wrote this poem and in the anthology and indie videos, as I said to Miss Obson, I want to put County Cullen's poem into a category with poems by William Shakespeare, Emily Dickinson, William Butler Gates, Walt Whitman, County Cullen's poem deserves to be read and heard. The Amistad's center I anticipated would be my friend and in a sense they would. I spoke to people there and they said, well, we are here to encourage scholarship and knowledge and we will give you permission to do this. However, in the will, and by the way, I learned from, again, Jennifer Urban's law students, I learned that the very small amount of money went not to the Amistad's center, but to a young woman who was a grand niece of Ida Cullen, the late wife, and who as far as anyone can determine had no interest in poetry, fair use, or even much in these small checks. She was the heir of the money, such as it was. People at the Amistad's center, I said, well, could you please just send me in writing that I have permission. Then they said, oh, but the fee must be sent in the terms of the will, the fee must be sent in what I have taken to be a law firm all this time, since I've been an accounting firm. The fee must be set by toms and in toms and you must get a fee that you have paid to toms and in toms, not to be confused with Jintian characters, or we can't give you permission for that happens. And toms and in toms had successfully stonewalled me for many years, just by not answering letters or emails. So this is potentially an impasse and again, my pro-corner attorneys, heroically, laid out to me everything that might happen. We had a discussion and my decision with a lot of canceled information from them was that we should write a letter to Thompson and Thompson saying we will be very glad to pay the reasonable fees, since you sent it to us. In the meantime, this video is going to be posted at www.favorintpalm.org. I had already sent the Amistad's center of the book with the DVD in it and they loved it, they were very, very nice about it. They were not ultimately at all helpful. One more barrier remained and again, a lawyer is the hero. The website, www.favorintpalm.org, is sponsored by my university, Boston University. And Boston University, you will not be surprised to know, has deeper pockets than I do. So it was necessary for BU to agree and I arranged a conference call with Jennifer Urban and the BU attorney, Lawrence Ellsworth, who I knew a bit. And we sent all the documents and documentation to Lawrence in the council's office at Boston University and I wish I had written it down so I could quote him exactly. He said I looked at all the documents, I examined all of this. He said, if they want to contest this, I'm a litigator, looking at it. And he sent a letter on BU letterhead to Thompson and Thompson saying, having permission from the Amistad center, we are not going to post this video and we'd be glad to pay any reasonable fee since these things are built for it. That is now over a year ago, we haven't heard from them, but many people have seen the video since then. So this was ultimately a happy outcome in a process that was quite painful and immensely frustrating and I identified with county college. I don't want my work to be unavailable. After I die, if anything I wrote or anything I edited makes a little money and my children want to get it, but I'm glad they're going to have it. As to my grandkids, I love them. You'll be surprised to hear they're quite cute. But let them write their own poems. They can take care of themselves. And I would be glad to have boilerplate go out to all writers that says X number of years after my death, I would say about writers 20, I want all my works, all my copyrights to be in public domain because I think that is with all artists. Now I'll try to extend this to the more dire and extreme area of human rights. And Kale's saying a little about the nature of poetry as reflected in his video. In my understanding of the art of poetry, it is a vocal art, but not a performative art. This station at first may seem pathetic or obscure. It is a vocal art, but not necessarily a performative art. I'll give you two kinds of examples. First example, theoretically, is to do with the word we've used a lot today is terminated as a surrogate to me, which is the plural of medium. Something that is a medium or is medium is in between. It's neither tall nor short, it's a medium. The hotener call is in the medium. The news media, the medium of television, the medium of web, the medium of printing. We need newspapers, we need magazines, they come between the event and we will proceed the event through them. The artist's medium comes in between the artist's ideas and feelings and the medium of paint for the architect of plaster and wood and steel, the medium of iron, whatever the medium is, it's between the artistic conception of feeling and the one who precedes the work of art. The spirit medium is between the other world and this world. The medium for poem, again, in this conception, is one human body, the color of air in that human body, not necessarily the artist's body. I once said in an essay that poetry is perhaps the most bodily of all the arts. My friend said, you know, Robert, I hope you say it's the most bodily of all the arts, yes. Dancing. Why bodily? Yes and no, in dance and the high art, it's an expert's trained body. I submit to you that in poetry, the medium is the audience's body. It's that infinite and that much on the human scale. The medium is not kind of the color in reading his poem. It's not an actor, it's a drunk, you look good reading Shakespeare, you look good in voice. It's not the poet with a nice personality, some of the poem. It's anyone of all, like Penicillin and like the other videos, anyone of all the same as the poem. I'll now say it to one, I guess that it's important to put noted, perhaps, how greedy it is, but greedy is the order of forgetfulness. It's combined, actually lethal, combines a Greek word and a Latin word which are unrelated. One that means death, that's a lethal, one that means forgetting. Anyway, the river of lethal is the river of forgetfulness. In the underworld, across the world, you forget. All in its two lines long, it's by Walter Savage Landlord, who died in 1865. Unloved, ungreed, an every human thing, time sprinkles in each piece of water with his acquaintance. Unloved, ungreed, an every human thing, time sprinkles in each piece of water with his acquaintance. Landler was an upper class Englishman who was one of the leading classes, he was the leading neo-Latin poet of his day, among other things. I am not an upper class Englishman. I don't know Latin, there's a lot of ways in which I'm not like Landler, but my body is his instrument. Three times at the beginning of that poem, I put my upper teeth on my lower lip. Unloved, ungreed, an every human thing. Three times at the end of the poem, I pierced my lips. Time sprinkles in each piece of water with his acquaintance. Little bones in your ear, the breath, the special organ humans have for this purpose. The medium was my breath, coming through my voice box. I was laying towards the instrument. This means that like a piece of music, a poem is something that happens, it happens in time. And indeed it happens, it takes place every time someone says it. And each time I say it, I feel a little different. A plot poem says the column poem at the beginning says at the beginning of the end. Each of us will hear it differently when he says that he feels differently each time. So the poem is perhaps uniquely intimate as a work of art. And it is inherently and by the nature of the medium on a human scale. It is intimate, it is on a human scale, and it uses this peculiar system of brunts that the primate has evolved. If you were on another planet, you would be astonished to hear that yes, there is an animal on that planet who, the artist of ingestion, it emits this series of brunts that can give very sophisticated information. Go to a hardware store, knock bros' families, and get me a bound of galvanized number six. That's not the kind of Rembrandt I like best. I love you, but not that way. I just, that by grunting, you remind me of these fishes around. This is Leonardo da Vinci, let's say, and da Vinci famously scorned other arts before paintings by far, because, and in his journals, somebody has a mic on, and they have a mic on. You know, I wondered if you might ask a person who's got the mic on, did you turn the mic on? Did you hear today or did you hear today? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You said that that person should get a mic on. Oh, yeah, I know, okay. I'm so black, let's be honest. In one of those movies, he goes to the minister with his mic on, sounds like a song. Da Vinci writes, speech, this is just the amplification of this city. Consider well how by the movement of the tongue, the help of the lips and teeth, the pronunciation of all the names of things is known to us, and how the simple and compound words of a language reach our ears by means of this instrument. And how these, if there were a name for all the effects of nature, all the effects of nature, it would approach infinity, together with the countless things which are in action and in the power of nature. And these, man does not express in one language only, but in a great number, and each of those languages also tend to end infinity, because they vary continually from century to century in time, and from one country to another. In space, through the intermingling of the people who by wars and other mischances continually mix with one another. And the same languages are rivaled to pass into oblivion. And they are mortal, like all created things. And if we grant that our world is everlasting, we shall say that these languages have been and still will be of infinite variety through the infinite centuries which constitute infinite times. In fact, this code that we produce with our body, it's infinitely various. And this is not the case, the venture of all people says, this is not the case with any other sense. For these are concerned only with such things as nature continually produces. And the ordinary shapes of things created by nature do not change, as from time to time do the things created by man, whose nature is greatest. Cheslaw Rielos is one of the Nobel Prize-winning Polish poet. Cheslaw, in his terrific memoir, Made of Realm, a kind of a great book, talks about how during the Nazi occupation, during the Nazi occupation, the most timid pole, the person most fearful, and he tells about, you know, seeing a couple walking in the baby carriage, including people quite arbitrarily stopping and pointing to the guy in the car. Was it Jew hunting or red hunting or anything? Just their power. The most timid, fearful of us would demonstrate some resistance to the Nazi occupation by having a poem in Polish somewhere in that person. Like just a nature poem, without anything at all, but it was in the Polish language, and it was a kind of a minimum form of resistance. And he does relate that to the nature of the art. The nature of language, which though mostly think about language as something that's on a monitor or on a page, the very word language means pumpage, pump water. It is in its essence, in its origin, and in our evolution, a phenomenal amount of the body. Along with torture. These both are human inventions. They betray our tremendous ingenuity, and they involve the fact that we are animals, and we also have to invent people. In that passage where he talks about the poem as the minimal resistance, he also talks about how hard it is to make a barrier that will prevent words from getting around. He talks about his activity, the underground media of Poland during the Nazi occupation. And this is where I start to think about the relation between our concerns and the concerns of pain and people who are jealous, terrorists, because they're telling the truth to all the people. Czesław is often very funny in his memoirs of the occupation. And I'll read the passage. We haven't talked so far today, and I regret that I have to read after this talk. We haven't talked about piracy, all kinds of things, but not called shops. I went to a conference in this subject where I learned that long before Hollywood movies are released in Hollywood, you can go to an African street market, almost an African city, and buy it by the movie. Because within days of the final edit, somebody has sold it to somebody in LA and it quickly gets to a place that you literally tip up to where they have a little shop that produces them and you can buy it for $5 at the street market. I mean, I've been released for many months. Czesław gives a wonderful portrait of a pirate. It just reminded me of the people who were actually stealing stuff. And here, I spent my time on books and papers. There's also the firm, Capital F, an institution too colorful to pass up here, namely because of its founder. We studied together. He was a tall and unique youth. We all underestimated him. He's son of a minor from Silesia. He had a definite leftist then, but at the same time his extremely class. I roamed with him for a while in the student dormitory. I always remembered him as a man kneeling in his bedside, or even prayers. I was even then puzzled by his mysteriously believed combined contemplation and action. Values and organizers and strategists he performed various functions in the leftist liberal blocks. No one, however, could have foreseen his later metamorphosis into a trader worthy of the Wild West. He founded the firm in Vilno during the fall of 1941 while the German army trudged towards the Volga. In a few months his profits soared from nothing to millions and soon the firm had two branches, one in Minsk, the capital of the Yellow Russia and the other in Warsaw, ranked it proper Nazi authorization on the ground of being, quote, useful for the army. The outfit was supplied with all sorts of passes and permits and allegedly traded in goods. In fact, it dealt mainly in the black market purchasing sale of currency. As a financial powder, the firm secured privileges for itself from the Germans through bribery, paying on a regular bonus to a few dignitaries. It also maintained its own workshop coming from false documents and ran an effective rescue operation for those threatened with arrests, especially Jews, many of whom owe their lives to. The firm often transported them carefully packaged from city to city. Was W. a merchant-conqueror, a politician, or an impossible love of one's neighbor? It would be impossible to separate those three qualities of this. This firm has made an interest publishing. After the war, he was ordered to prepare a book just as at the time they were dealing in copyrights and selling books to one another Theoretically, it was like playing a monopoly game. Then after the war, the same character who was dealing in currency and Jews and so forth becomes an important figure in the publishing industry. I'm shy at trying to draw two explicit lines between the innocent publishers, the play of county Cullen. I think there is a line and it's worth thinking about. The suppression of Cullen's poem and the suppression of the video almost makes you think the term terrorist is appropriate because there's something fearsome ultimately about language. Authority is right to be afraid. The Polish poem can embody resistance. And if this medium is so subversive and penetrating that it's not dependent upon broadcasting powers or printing presses it's on an individual scale it's on a human scale somebody memorizes it and it's in the old redberry science fiction novel Fahrenheit 451 where people have body books that had them by heart The corporeality and intimacy of the medium makes it related to human rights in a phrase of the individual. Rather than try to draw that line any more explicitly than I already have I'm even close by reading a poem by Czesław Miłosz. I worked with Czesław on the English versions of his poems. I always said that Bob has and I should not be called translators but it's in the book translated by Neda Bogner I know of Lika, the Polish. I should say consultants in English, idiom and cadences so I will close with Czesław Miłosz's poem Incantation and it is important to say that the poem is entitled Incantation this is not a description of the world as Czesław he thinks it is at the moment but it's the word but it's the word as a potential or in some Catholic a tonic way is what he is trying to say Incantation human reason is beautiful and invincible no bars, no barbed wires no pulping of books no sentence of banishment can prevail against it it establishes universal ideas in language and guides our hand so we write truth and justice with capital letters live in oppression with small it puts what should be above things as they are it is an entity of despair and a friend of hope it does not know Jew from Greek or slave from master of the world to manage it says while seared and transparent phrases from the filthy discord of tortured words it says that everything is new under the sun opens the regional this beautiful and very young our philosophy and poetry our ally in the service of the good as yesterday their birth the news was brought to the mountains by unicorn and an echo their friendship will be glorious their time has no limit their enemies have delivered themselves to destruction any questions or general remarks I just wanted to thank you I think you've brought up a concept the reason you're saying anything has brought up a concept and none of us have connected make sure the human rights it just is a coincidence these two trips I got back yesterday in New York in the Penn Gate in the Museum of Natural History people all the important publishing people in New York in evening dress you know black pie and big whale over all of them and there was this woman Charlene Hunter Galt who visited her which was pregnant and Charlene decided to confide the authorities and made her go back to see in what cell was this extremely thin, small, barely pregnant woman and there were these other women in the prison who were basically her husband they were taking care of her little boy is six years old now so it really the proximity of my two junts made me think is there a connection between I have to say about the Colin video and I I feel strong need to say I don't have any illusion that these are trials on the same level of difficulty but there is a connection and it is worth it and I can't claim that it came to me in one flesh of inspiration as far as I can tell this happened in two nights ago I saw this guy spitting Turkish and he said and his recording he said I'm not an activist I'm just a publisher again in relation to the work publicized and public is rather beautiful and he is it's not that he's party free or something he made it to publish his books about the Armenian genocide the Kurds the Jews and it made him a terrorist as I said at the end of the talk in some ways it's an appropriate term so you mentioned that maybe 20 years after your death you want all of your work to be in the public domain do you feel like you're unique in this do you feel like you no I had brought this up with a bunch of writers I'm sorry I jumped on to the question am I unique in this no I don't know many writers I know some people I know musicians who sold Kurdish names and copies of their work and I know a fiction writer too I was going to say I don't know how many are novelists I would eventually say and Dave Defensives and Tisha can confirm this I'd eventually say it's in the high 90s of percent of writers and say 20 years after my death if anybody is still interested in what I did give it to them I don't need I'm grateful to Boris Rousin for my publisher I'm happy then to make money now and for 20 years after Robert's interrogation then let them publish somebody new do something I didn't let them publish my grandchild but nothing's enough I think I'm far from unique in that I think we'd be close to the universal not only amongst writers and among artists that's Bruce Springsteen because he wanted to make money from his work after he died I don't think the answer would be so good and the propaganda for Disney referred to early as the evil mouse say who's used to work the artist, evil mouse who most perfect the artist that's actually I'm half of also the public knowledge by the way this is saying huge fan but that actually does segue to the one thing I did want to ask we often hear about how the strong copyright is the thing that is what artists need and what artists want and again there are certainly plenty of artists who will say that they are very much about wanting to control their work and have their work but I just wanted to press the presentation here granted we're a very receptive audience it's just so amazingly powerful and you say you've talked to other artists is it possible for other poets, other artists to step forward in a collective way to rebut these arguments about copyright maximalism to celebrate the importance of fear of use and the limitations and exceptions of copyright in some sort of more organized public way probably as I said I hate beauties so somebody might do that you guys might consider having your attorneys drop the oil plate I can fill out the number of years after my death I want this public domain there's a term of literary executor that people think has a lot of meaning has no meaning your copyrights like your car your bank account, your real estate it goes to your heirs it's property I don't want to neglect artists both together a lot of your comments in the subject years ago and there was an African musician there an African guard and he had a real complaint near the side of this his work that he does playing traditional instruments traditional music and singing his income came from public performances of these and people were making recordings of them live recordings and selling them on cd and now since then they've probably posted and his income is being hurt by that so it's not that without exception everything must be distributed do I want you to take a phone with mine and rewrite it and change a few things and post it on the web no there are limits but I think a good place to start is with this and I had to wait for I think it's 75 years after county comes I would be dead for sure before I could see this video posted so I'm so grateful to to Jennifer the video was up there I had about giving up I had to give it up and I said look if you want me to sit on a committee everybody has to see this thing because I had a feeling about the musician I think there are probably things your organization could do to pat the feelings of writers and to channel them and my idea about the will, the boilerplate thing for the will may not be the right way to do it but I'm pretty confident about this from the most sort of refined, you know, the equivalent of the poet who makes it very special, artist of goat cheese to the somebody who's his own from Bruce Springsteen to you know people would say yeah I want my work to be respected I want to get credit for it I can make a lot of money from it but after I die it should be the people who love it should have a right to