 pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted by a remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner by emailing steve mccarthy at mccarthy s at mhurstma.gov that's m-c-c-a-r-t-h-y-s at mhurstma.gov. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real-time via technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship and despite best efforts, we will post on the town website an audio or video recording, transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. And with that done, we'll call the meeting to order at 5.02 p.m. I'll take a roll call of attendance. Gaston. Here. Done. Kelly. Here. Dylan. Here. And I am here. We're all here. So first thing on the agenda is public comment. And this is general public comment unrelated to anything further done on the agenda and the hearings or anything. Does anyone hear public comment? If so, please raise your hand by hitting the hand raise hand button at the bottom. No. Okay. So next up is licenses. So first up, we have special short-term alcohol serving licenses on SST 24-30, 22-34 through 29, 30, 31 and 32. Gabrielle Gould. Wine and malt. Gabrielle. Would you like to talk about these? Hey, how are you? Good. How is everybody? Good. So you have the music programs. Yeah. So I think today we're in front of you with four of our returning Friday summer music series on the South common. As well as we have offered to help the town with their Juneteenth event. Which will be this coming Sunday. So I know that we're right on the heels of that one. And I'm sorry about that. We got brought in a little bit late. That's fine. So does anyone have any questions about these? So is your, your procedure and the security and all that is going to be set the same as it was last year? Has anything changed? Nothing has changed. We will have myself and another tip certified person at the door of the four music events. And at the door, we all know that means the table. We are once again working with local or as local as possible, but we do have white lion brewery, which are moving into downtown Amherst as a. Permanent brick and mortar business. We'll be working with our friends over at wheelhouse and their product artifact cider and bringing in black birch vineyards and all three of those tables will know that no matter what age you are, if you do not have a bracelet, non-transferable bracelet authorized by us, you do not get a drink. It worked very, very well last year. We are looking for a larger attendance this year. We're bringing in much bigger musicians and bigger known names. So we're really hoping that this is a very fun, full family event with people coming to the area for this event. Fantastic. Right. Yeah. And then the Juneteenth, I do want to be very specific that bracelets will also be given, but because the layout is very different than how the bid does the summer, the bracelets will be given at the actual table where there will be tip certified bartenders provided by Bistro 63, a local by Paco and business. And they too will be serving white lion brewery there. So it fits in with the theme as well, but we will not be having a separate table to card, but they will be carding there. They will be carding there. Okay. All right. That's good to know. Thank you. Any questions from anyone. About this or yes Dylan. I remember last year we were talking about. Just water distribution to people. What did we end up doing last year? And then how did that work out? So we do free water. And that worked out very well. We are also hoping to bring bubble tea to the common this summer. We're talking to some bubble tea vendors. For the under 21 set. And this year we're having creme brulee. And a charcuterie board. Like table. I don't know how else to describe it. And we might have an oyster temp. So we're sort of expanding a little bit. But we also really, of course, want to encourage people to do takeaway from local restaurants. And we have several restaurants partnering with us to do picnic baskets. Okay. Wow. That sounds great. Yeah. Yeah. And we, we of course bring a water bubbler for the band. So they have cold water. Okay. Great. Any questions. Any other questions. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Gabrielle. Just wondering if there's any other, you know, learning that you did last year that, that you're implementing or trying out. This, this round. I think we were just so impressed with how well the events were respected and how, I mean, I think the worst day I had was I picked up three pieces of garbage. And of course we, we take away all the garbage that night. We have a, the bid has a little ballpark that we do all of our downtown cleanup with. We do not want to. And I know that you gave us permission last year to stop. Circling off with. Caution tape, the entire perimeter. A caution tape is exceedingly expensive. Shocker. But also it's just, it's super wasteful because you really can't reuse it. And I just, it's like, you know, here we are trying to do something like outdoorsy and nice. And we're just adding more microplastics. So we would like this year to continue our perimeter walks with our volunteers, making sure nobody leaves with the cans or the cups. And we, I don't think stopped a single one. Person last year. So that's a good thing. Okay. Great. Wonderful. Sounds good. If there's nothing else. Is there a motion to, oh wait, do we want to approve these separate like one group and then a second one? Or do you just want to do them all? Can we just do them all. They are all under the same insurance policy. I don't know if that makes a difference. As to how you do this, but they are different events. I, I consider the four Friday nights, one sort of section. And the Juneteenth, its own event. Okay. All right. And, but we could probably. Just do them all. Yeah. Is there a motion to approve done? I thought I had a question for Steve, but now I've forgotten. Oh, I know it was. I just had a real quick question for Steve. We're not. Everything's in order as far as signatures and documentation and everything for these. There's no. Outstanding pieces of. Information that we need for, for the license. Is that correct? Yes. They have all been signed off on by the police chief, fire chief and town manager. And we have chased down all the documentation. Insurance is not required until five days before the release of the contract. But we do already have that. So these will be good to go once they're approved. Fantastic. So on that note, I will move to approve the. Five short term licenses listed in the agenda for the, the bid. Thank you, Doug. For the motion. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. For the second. Any further discussion? There is none. We'll take a vote. Gaston. Hi. Doug. Hi. Kelly. Hi. Dylan. Hi. And I vote aye. Five to zero. They is unanimous. The licenses are approved. Thank you so much for coming in Gabrielle. It's a great summer. And I was wondering, we are going to talk about the lunch cart. Regulations a little bit later. If you'd be able to stay or pop back on. Great. Do you know what time about on the agenda that is? Probably a little bit later down, although we could. I don't know. How about I. How about I email you. Actually, I believe you have a couple of. Downtown businesses looking as well. So I might just stay on if that's okay. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Great. Thank you so much. Okay. So the next. Next item on the agenda is the transfer. The continued hearing. Of. Shilpa. Enterprises to oxbow lines. This is a. Cousins to provisions. And do we need to reopen the Steve? Yes. Okay. So is there a motion to reopen the heat to reopen the hearing? So moved. Thank you, Doug. Is there a sign? Second. Thank you, Dylan. All in favor. Let's say. Let's take a vote. Gaston. Hi. Doug. Hi. Callie. Hi. Dylan. Hi. And I vote I. The hearing is open about provisions. So this is just to have anything moved forward on this. Steve or. I spoke to Mr. McAmis, one of the owners. About half an hour ago. He said they are still working on negotiating the lease with. Their landlord, which is a required document for the application. I believe Corey Telman from provisions is here to, to speak more on this. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, we were expecting that the lease negotiations would have been finished. And we would have a signed lease by the time we got here, but I've been told that there are some things still being worked out. So we certainly hope to have it done in time to the next year. Okay. So. Do we just continue the hearing to our next meeting on the. 30th. Thank you. Yeah, is that, does anyone have any questions? I would only say, will we be meeting on the 30th or would we be, you know, we were doing first and third. Right, right, right. Yeah, correct. Right about that. So it is not the 30th. It is. July 7. That we're meeting. And then the 21st. So it would be continued to July 7. At five. Okay. Does anyone have any questions or concerns about this? And if not, is there a motion to continue? Yes, done. So should we make a motion to. Close the current hearing? And continue it or should we do the continuation first? And then you should do the convenient continuation first. So the hearing automatically, does it automatically close Steve? If it's removed to vote to continue it or does it stay open? It stays open, but that is the intention because once it's closed, it's closed. So it would be being continued. So it can be continued next time. In that case, I will, I will move to continue the public hearing on. The transfer of all, all license. To what we say July 7th. July 7. At 5pm. Yes. All right. Is there a second. Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion? If not, Take a vote. Gaston. Hi. Doug. Hi. Ellie. Hi. Dylan. Hi. And I vote. I. Five to zero. The hearing is continued until July 7th at 5pm. Thank you so much for coming in, Mr. Tellman. And we look forward to. Resolving everything on the 7th. Thank you. We do as well. Appreciate it. Thanks. Bye bye. Okay. So. Next up is. Discussion items. So, um, Since Gabrielle is here, can we just. Do lunch cart first. In case she has to. Be somewhere. So I sent everybody a new draft with some stuff changed around and I tried to fill in some. The blanks of the spacing and, um, Uh, Just a couple of questions. Do we want to change food truck lunch? I looked around around the state and. The lunch card or food truck or mobile food establishment. Regulations are many and various and different towns do very different things. So, um, Yeah. I put to try to define short term and I wasn't sure what we wanted to do. What I did do is I took just if we wanted to get something very. Like on the books done very quickly. I kind of took out seasonal because I think that's a different conversation. And I put in short term in case somebody wanted to bring in a lunch cart. Or, um, Roughly the same period as a liquor license. A short term liquor license. So I said what would be a weekend would be like 24 hours to up to 72 hours. And then I tried to change all of seasonal the short term. Um, under section five. I, um, Looked around and found that some of the municipalities have required space requirements between the number of, um, Between the bumpers of the, the lunch carts, if there's more than one. Um, And then had everything. The lunch cart license is applied for in conjunction with a short term liquor license. I had the refer it back to our, um, regulations for consumption of alcohol and public property. Um, I mean, for new locations, I. Put a kind of a shorter. A status of 300 feet from established restaurants or private properties. I mean, this is all open discussion. You can totally change it. And then, um, What I did notice is that, uh, parking fees and rules for on street lunch carts. And I hadn't thought about this, but a lot of people had the lunch carts register for three parking spaces just so that there would be enough space around. I think that is to do with, you know, Environmental reasons just to make sure that there wasn't, um, Exhaust coming out. They didn't kind of, It didn't kind of create a, That atmosphere and there were rooms for, There's room for firefighters or like if something broke down for somebody to come in and take care of the lunch cart. So that's all. And I did ask, uh, Gabrielle to read over the center copy of the regulations. Plus the select board. Old regulations. And Gabrielle, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts in general about food trucks in Amherst. And I know it's kind of a sensitive topic sometimes. Because of the order restaurants. Yeah. No, I think, I think it's a great topic. And, you know, One of the things that we would like to really encourage is our other town centers to sort of activate and revitalize them. Um, especially, I think a lot about North. Amherst and South Amherst. Right. Um, especially I think a lot about North Amherst and South Amherst where there aren't that many brick and mortar restaurants yet. Um, you know, I think when you look at where like, You know, I don't think we, we need some, We've got a really good vibe going down there. Look at more like where the old hat hat was. Um, that area to do like a really incredible. Um, I'd love to see someone bring into North Amherst or North Amherst or that area. A food cart festival or a food truck festival and really start to like bring people into those areas and see the beauty and what they do have to offer. So I think that this is a really important thing. And the, The more simple that Amherst can make it. And I don't know if it's possible to join in with our surrounding communities and say, if you're licensed in one, we can bring you into others, which other communities do do. We don't. And I don't know if that's something that we could work with. Um, the license and commission on it for a more, I would be interested in taking part of that conversation. Because it is, um, difficult and punitive to get a whole nother set of licenses. Not, I mean, I think that this license, of course, is very important in having a permit to bring the cart in is, is very, is, is that's, that's normal. That's favorite girl. But we run into some other issues where they need to, a separate health inspection, maybe a separate, um, you know, they need separate inspections that can get very cumbersome and exhausting. And we lose the ability to bring them in. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. That's really good. So Steve, who would I talk to, but that's Rob Mora. So, um, yeah, Rob Mora oversees the inspection services department in general. Susan Malone is the health inspector who usually deals with food trucks. Um, and I really don't know what the, um, it's interesting question because I've heard, I've heard things like, you know, some, some lunch carts can operate in different towns, but just one health license, but that's not the way we've done it in Amherst before. So I would be curious to see, um, you know, what, what the real estate law is because I'm not aware. Okay. And maybe we could help and do some research and talk to some of the other town, uh, buildings that, that allow that and see how that they're, they're collaborating on those. Okay. And I'm also happy to be part of the discussion with Rob. Yeah, we should, um, talk to him about that. Um, you know, off the top of your head, what towns allow kind of a cooperative license, or I don't know what you would call it, but to share. Well, we'll toss in a legal term since Gaston's here. I'll say by hearsay, I have heard from other food carts that East camps, North out, South out, South out, South out. Uh, Um, So I'd rather actually speak with their economic development teams or their, Their Town Council than, you know, sort of go off of what I've heard from individual trucks. Oh, and I'm not pulling me, I just was sort of, Oh, yeah. where they're their town council, then, you know, sort of go off of what I've heard from individual trucks. Oh, and I'm not holding you to it. I just was sort of curious about that because it would be nice to get some more in town. Yep. Okay. Gaston? I guess I wonder if for the short-term license here, we can, you know, recognize the inspection of another town provided our own health inspectors have looked at the requirements of those town and feel that they're sufficient, at least for that kind of window. And maybe we can, you know, try to put one town on the list and add the towns that seem to have food trucks that seem to pass muster, at least to kind of waive inspection for a weekend. Yeah, that's a good idea. That was a good question. If I may on that topic, I think the ideas of a reciprocal agreement, because we want to go both ways. I mean, you know, that exists in a variety of kind of licensures, you know, sometimes like teaching licenses, there's a reciprocal agreements between neighboring states. This is a little more local than that, but, you know, we may be much more comfortable and how we might think about it is, you know, a lot of the regulations relative to that inspection are going to be identical because they're driven by state law and that sort of thing. However, you know, we may, in choosing that, we may feel there are certain communities that are better at the process. So maybe some communities we want to make as, you know, sort of specific arrangements with and others that we're not as comfortable with. And so it may become not just any licenses or reciprocally appreciated or acknowledged license, but certain ones. Mm-hmm, what you mean? Just to frame the discussion as I think it's important as it comes to this question, the statutory authority for the License Commission, this question is only in the public way, which is, I liked your title, Mary. I thought mobile food established in the public way would be a perfect title for it. But so I don't really know if the License Commission would be able to authorize that that kind of scheme in particular because, you know, the food licensing is almost, is separate and almost a prerequisite because even if you're on private property, the License Commission wouldn't have any authority but they would still need a food license. So that might need to be something that's done at a higher policy level. But I do think it's a good idea. Yeah. I think otherwise you guys have a really great document here and one that is conducive. And while I, of course, will kind of fight against having a festival of food trucks in the actual downtown with 43 brick and mortar restaurants, I'd love to see something like this take root and be really successful in one of our other town centers. Right, okay. Yes, Gaston? You know, just to Steve's point, I no doubt we're not in a position to make judgments about health inspections, but I think we could provide that if it meets the standard of the health inspector, then we, you know, we would approve it. It would be ideal to align ourselves with the health inspectors to see if they are willing to open it up a bit more, at least as a long-term project. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. Yeah. Mary, may we give you just little comments? Please do, please do. Okay. I mean, with respect to the private property, it seemed to me that private property certainly needs a license if they're selling food. Right. Well, we don't license that. I mean, that would be, is that right, Steve? Like, that's not... Yeah, so that would need the... That's the health department. Yeah, the health department zoning can apply. But yeah, the statutory authority for this particular regulation set only covers the public way. Right. Which doesn't include the comment in the comments. It doesn't include the comment. Okay. So, Gabrielle, where are you thinking in North Amherst that you're talking about something... I mean, I'm looking at the mill district and with the loss of jokes and sort of reactivating that area with a weekly or once a month, six months of the year, like unbelievable food trucks festival where we bring a whole bunch of trucks, beer tents. Not me, not me. I want to make that clear. I'm not trying to... Got enough on my plate, but I'd love to see that. I also think about South Amherst. We've got those beautiful greens in front of the South Amherst library. You know, where apparently you're not allowed to ride a horse on them, but maybe you could bring some great food trucks in there and activate that area. I just think that there's a lot of beautiful open green space that we don't activate on a regular basis for our community and that we could do more. So the mill district is private, is that correct? Right, I didn't quite understand that. So now I do. Okay, so that wouldn't be... So unless they were selling alcohol along with the food truck, we wouldn't have to... That's not really something we deal with, but the South Amherst Common, do we license that also? Is that... That is part of the public way, yeah. Okay, so South Amherst, so that's ours. Okay. All right, that's good. And there are some street side parking areas up at the mill district, which might end up to be easier for whoever runs that because I know the zoning was quite specific and litigated up there. And zoning does apply to food trucks and that's actually been another challenge too. Okay. Oh, another thing I really... Short-term events, sorry. No, no, Steven, I'm sorry. One of the things that I'm very curious about is right now we have a beautiful playground down in Kendrick Park that is really being utilized, but there's not really any coffee shop or lunch shop down there. There's an interest on my side anyway to see if a vendor would like to come in for the summers and the fall when parents are down there with their little humans and have something there on a regular basis. So I've been talking to a couple of different entities about that. Okay. All right, that would be kind of nice. Yeah. Was there... Thank you. Is there any other feedback on the regulations? Anything that you saw glaringly wrong or awkward or just on the... I don't think we need a minimum on the short-term. Oh, no, okay. Okay, all right, I'll take that off. Is 72 hours or three days fine with everybody? A question I have is if somebody wanted to do on a monthly basis, would that be considered short-term or would that be... So they get a license for one month. See, that's what we were... I took... We were gonna consider doing a seasonal license and then the conversations that were morphed into would be a short-term and did we tie it in with the short-term liquor license? Just for this draft, I just turned it into short-term and made it a maximum of three days. So I don't know if we wanted to make it more elastic and have a monthly license or a seasonal license, or I mean, I think sometimes with a food truck and seasonal, they might as well just pay for the whole... Well, it's so reasonable this particular fee structure that I don't think you have to... I mean, if someone's going to come in and do a month, they can just pay the fee. Right. Especially, I think... Is it my understanding this board agreed to pro-rate liquor licenses, but not food truck licenses, correct? Because that would come down to literally pennies on the dollar. Yes, I think so. Okay, great. Yeah, I think that this is just something, if somebody knows if they wanna try it for three months, they can just pay the very nominal fee. Okay. All right, so I will change that. And any other comments or questions? I can... So Steve, should we, before I do the next draft, should we meet with Susan and Rob? I think that would be a good idea. Yeah, we'll talk about that reciprocal arrangement, which is not for a short term. And I did have one question for Gabrielle while she's here. I know in our previous conversations and this topic, something that's come up is the question of locations, which I think is probably one of the stickier ones on this subject, because the prescribed locations for annual licenses are, some of them are okay, but some of them are not really great. And I think that's a big place where this kinda comes into conflict with the interests of the restaurants as well. I mean, no restaurant owner wants a food truck to be parked right outside in front of their building. Do you have any thoughts on what a good location scheme would be for non-short-term licenses? I'd love to sit down with a map. When I think about outside of downtown Amherst, I think that there's a lot of possibility there and there's a lot of parking areas that could be turned into great places. Again, down by Kendrick, I think a designated space that is within walking and visual distance for parents on the playground would be really fantastic. I personally like where we're keeping food trucks in downtown because they seem to really stay along, especially the South Common. I think everybody knows that the North Common is being rebuilt completely and that it's going to be a game changer in a lot of ways in two years when it's finished. And I think that that needs to be looked at a little bit differently, that parking lot's going to be gone, how do we activate that? I like where the Halal truck is and I know that that's one of our designated spaces. And I don't, again, Steve, I agree with you completely. Like if you put a food truck right in front of the run of taste high, momos and adigatos, that's a disservice and that's kind of a cruelty. But I also, I know that during Lavera Cruzana's renovation, they were talking about maybe putting their food truck right in front of them. And I was like, oh, well, that sort of makes sense. It's your food truck. So I don't know where the flexibility of wording for something like that would come in. Yeah, I actually had to tell them it would have to be across the street, a little bit down the street too, because of where they're located. Yeah, they told me and I was like, huh, that's kind of interesting, which I respect the parameters, but at the same time, that's your brick and mortar and that's your food truck. So could we work with them to change something? That new, my question always remains, where's the nuance? And the looking at individual cases with something like that. Yeah, that particular situation seems like something that would come up occasionally and could probably be pretty easily handled by a clause or two, so. Yeah. But I'm sure we would welcome your feedback on the locations because I think that's one of the more outdated parts of the document as it exists and you have a better pulse on the way the restaurants would feel than we do, I think so. Yeah. It is difficult and when I mentioned food truck, you see like the anxiety flares, so we don't want to do that. And I think our locations right now are where they're supposed to be, they're well thought out. Okay, great, thank you. Any other questions about this? Okay, well, I have my work cut out for me, so thanks very much. Thank you so much, Gabrielle, for taking around for the conversation, it was really, really helpful. And again, hope everything goes well with the program on the Common and the Juneteenth celebration. Well, we hope to see you all there. We've got lots of different music. Mr. G is finally coming back to Annhurst, and then some great big bands, so it'll be a lot of fun. Oh, wonderful, all right. All right, we'll see you all then. Thanks a lot, have a great evening. You too. Bye-bye. Okay, so back to, oh, rental registration program and letter to count council. So Gaston has done a draft. Yeah, sorry, it took me so long, but I tried to capture what I saw to be our sentiment. Well, we did talk about this two meetings ago to be really number one. Okay, we're open to exploring being the enforcer here, but kind of let's talk about it, especially since number two, we're very unclear what suspending a license means when you have tenants living in a building. And so the invitation was to see if Mandy, Joe, Haniki would come visit us. When reading over the draft, I thought maybe the last sentence could be a little more requesting rather than instructing, a little more deferential. But anyway, welcome other comments. Oh, please. Any other comments? I'm trying to think of it in terms of sentence. I mean, it could be like, just asking, could you please, if you think this is a good idea, could you coordinate or we'll be happy to coordinate or whatever? I thought it was very nice. Yeah, I thought it was great. And I really liked that you brought up that issue about the punishment because that is really a good question. So you lose your rental permit. Now what happens? So you have to, I don't even think you can legally, I'll defer to the lawyers here, but I don't think you can even legally just kick out your tenants. No. If you don't have a... Right, it seems like it's more like you'd wanna kind of a receivership process or something. Yeah. Well, if I may. I mean, certainly can impose financial penalties without them losing a tense. I think, and then of course, if it's really a sort of safety related thing, so let's say it relates to a fire alarm or something like that, the building can't be occupied. So we have to, they kinda need to make other arrangements for those people to be in until it's rectified. So I think there's a whole rich set of things that need to be contemplated relative to this. I think if it's purely a short-term, Airbnb type circumstance, yeah, if you pull their license, then they can't have any, they can schedule a new people to be in, but if it could be a circumstance where even in that, where someone's rented a month, they're here for a summer, they're teaching a summer class at UMass or something like that for six weeks. And so they're like, oh, I'll just do a short-term Airbnb for six weeks. That could be a case like what you're talking about where a revocation of a license would hamstring the place for those. I mean, tenant doesn't have anywhere to go, right? So, and there are very, I would say, let's say strict, but very powerful regulation and processes around eviction. And so, in other words, tenant rights are pretty strong. And so that's the other thing is that tenant rights, if they have a lease essentially, do come into play. And so that'll impact what we can and can't do is in regard to penalty. Thanks. Any other questions? Oh, Dylan, go ahead. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I think we can definitely keep that an option to revoke a rental registration just as an option where I can see it being the types of homes you might see that would have it revoked would be typically people renting to college students anyways who are having that high turnover. So it would just stop that gap. And we could have, I don't know, some type of provision that a lease cannot be signed to new tenants as part of the revocation. If we wanted to go that direction where you can still keep the people you have, they don't get evicted, but the landlord can't just can't just keep running to new people. And then that might also open something up as well where it offers that protection to a tenant where a tenant might complain about something that they're in violation of knowing that they were to be evicted by the landlord for some reason. The landlord wouldn't be able to get anybody else in there. So the landlord would have a financial incentive to keep maybe somebody who's complaining about the things wrong with their house. Anything else about the issue or about the letter in particular? I think it's a great letter. Yeah, I think we could just send it off. Maybe if it would be, if this would be amenable to you, please contact Stephen Parthey to schedule the meeting or something like that. That would be great. And then we will have a conversation with them. Okay, great. There's not anything else on the rental registration for this evening. Nope, okay. What was next, rental registration? Don't use marijuana. Doug, any news? The update is there's no update. Oh, okay. Sorry. That's all right. Okay, we will keep it on there. Just on, I have been hearing that some municipalities are starting to open locations where you can use on site. I don't know what we know. In Massachusetts? In Massachusetts, that's what I understand. Oh, okay, I don't know. Doug, yes. I was in Maine recently in Portland, which there are a number of campus facilities in Portland if you're not familiar. It was interesting that way. There was, I believe, one location that I thought must be, given the other aspects of the business, it seemed to me a place for social consumption could occur. I think my biggest concern, just I'll put it out there since we're talking about this, I think my biggest concern relative to that is for the staff that work, because as a simple example, it's like if you're a bartender, you can't drink while serving with regard to alcohol. And so if you're in a location that's interior and it involves, let's say, hookah smoking or something like that, of that, you're not able to, unless there's some sort of air handling or you're gonna have your staff being wearing masks or something like that, you're gonna be passively ingesting the marijuana, which as a worker, you may not personally want to partake. And number two, when we think about sort of, impaired judgment, which is part of why you can't drink as a bartender, we're thinking along the same line. So the level of impairment is probably very, very low and all of those kind of things. But I think that's a concern I have generally around sort of social consumption is, are the staff who are going to be doing the control of the circumstances being able to remain sort of unimpaired? Right. And that might be somebody who got a job that doesn't partake at all and doesn't want to, but just needs a job and or the other thing, just like I said before, there's sort of, we regulate our bartenders so that they can't consume while serving for the reason of being in full control of their faculty. So I presume the same should apply in this circumstance. Is there any example like to be followed from, I'm trying to think, like a, do they have cigar bars here? Or I guess Dylan, do you know? I used to when I was in Ohio, there was a hookah bar, I would go to sometimes and they had it where there's a room where you would go, you'd get the hookah and all that stuff. And you opened another door and you went into kind of lounge area that was kind of disconnected in a way. I mean, they had cameras, it was glass viewing. You could still keep an eye on what was happening in there, but it definitely created that barrier from smoke. I don't think you can, it's not a hundred percent, especially for something like marijuana where it might linger in the air and you have to have some type of ventilation system, but it might be a little bit costly to get something like that in there. I think it would really kind of be new construction is where you'd be seeing something like that. But I mean, it certainly is doable. You just have that area separated where the staff are in a separate room from where it's actually being consumed. Right. And then with an extensive filter. So Gaston, you said you heard that there were these places and other towns and messages. Yeah, yeah. Yes, let me get more information. I met an entrepreneur who's opening a seven story like Canada's Wonderland next to Daniel Hall in an old building. Yeah. And he actually, I was like, this sounds like Jordan's furniture. He's like, actually, yeah, Jordan is on my board. They have the Japanese school there. Yeah. They're gonna have all kinds of attractions. I think they're opening next year. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, if we can get some more information on such a... Okay. I'll see what I can find. Yeah. Figure out what kind of rooms and advanced filtration systems this place. I mean, I wonder if it's too soon to get a feedback from our health inspector because they're the experts on that smoke issue. Yeah. I mean, Doug, do you think we should start talking or maybe later in the summer? I think on that particular aspect, we might, it can't hurt to sort of pose the question because I think, you know, because a parallel is like a cigar bar where people have, you know, those two in front of clubs and you can do which one, so everybody's gonna overtake, but I think that there are, just what are the sort of parameters that we use around cigarette and tobacco smoke might be useful. So if we can engage with them a little bit on that. And that's tacitly what our board of health is to date would probably point to, to prevent social consumption. What, you know, if I was an entrepreneur, I'd say, okay, great, nobody can smoke, but here's all the edibles now. I mean, that's, to be honest, I mean, you know, it's, you know, or we're gonna make food with it in it. I mean, that's a thing. And so, you know, again, I think that that would actually, and that may be the direction to go. It's like, you just can't smoke it, but you can do anything else relative to, you know, either edibles or, you know, other forms of consumption that don't involve it being, you know, in the general sort of, you know, air. I think the other thing relative to sort of that smoking is that others within the same environment may have, may want to partake of less so if you think about alcohol's comparisons like, I buy one beer, I drink one beer. The guy next to me wants to drink three beers, that's fine, it has no impact on me, but when you start having stuff, particularly in the air, I don't have as much control over how much I'm consuming at that point. So that's where I think it gets really, and that's part of why I think we're able to have the tobacco related smoking laws that we have is because, you know, somebody who doesn't smoke and doesn't wanna participate has the right to not have that happen. So I think that's sort of some of the thinking there. And so, you know, but if it was all either within food they were serving or other edible type things that they're serving or other delivery mechanisms that, you know, are not such that they put it into a larger sort of public space. And I think, you know, it's a lot more straightforward for us than that sort of, because I think that solves a lot of problems. I think, you know, I've seen certainly the distal apparatus that people use that sort of, you know, that are still in inhalation style of equipment, but it fully contains the marijuana smoke. So, you know, that doesn't put it generally into the air in and around. I think that's one of those where I think the control vote for staff that work it as well as the other patrons is a critical question. Yeah. On the topic of ventilation, I was in New York City recently and they was one of these cook at the table and they have these really powerful kind of ventilators. So, you know, ventilation. I mean, I don't know what the evidence is on contact high these days, but certainly it's not healthy. So ventilation is key. Yeah, geez. Okay. All right. So, oh yeah, go ahead Dylan. Oh, sorry, I was gonna say, I don't know. I wouldn't be necessarily too concerned about other patrons and that kind of situation. I think it ends up being a little bit more of, I think just the nature of the activity. You know, if you go in there, it's more of a time thing less that you're there for one beer that you can nurse. You know, it's, I'm in there for 20 minutes and then I gotta get out or I'm too high kind of thing. And that at the end of the day, if somebody's going to a marijuana recreational facility to smoke and they're complaining that they're getting too high, I think they're making regulations to the one in a thousand people. So, I mean, it's worth considering. If it's doable just for even just better ventilation for staff who will undoubtedly need to go into the rooms at some point for cleaning or what have you. But I think, yeah, I think as far as other patrons are concerned, it's less of a concern for me anyways. Well, I think about it this way. I said, you know, if people want the establishment like this for a social circumstance, they may want to stay a long time but not have a lot and whether they can control that or not. So let's say you go and then the place gets busy so that there's a lot more people. Now you have to leave because these other people came and it's like, I still want to watch the game on the big TV while I'm mildly buzzed as opposed to, you know what might be happening if I just stick around because crowd came in. It's like, you know, part of why you went was to be with crowd and sort of be in and amongst people. So I mean, I just think it's consideration for sure. I mean, it's, you know, we can kill ourselves with trying to nuance it too finely but I think we should be conscientious of that perhaps. Yeah, no, I definitely agree. It's worth considering because if it's easy to do we should do it, but it's certainly one that. Talking about a business that who knows if one will ever even open up here in Amherst. So we will see. We'll see and we'll also see what the Board of Health decides to do on that one too. Whether or not they allow it because I know hookah bars, outright bams cannot do them in Amherst. Right. Okay, all right. So Doug, will you be in touch with the Board of Health about that at some point? Yeah, I'll read you about that. All right, super. Thanks. Okay. Is there anything else on this topic? No. Okay. So we did lunch cart guidelines, regulations for liquor license decisions. Where are we with that? I still have to input changes in mail draft too. So. Okay. All right, sounds good. I do think we are almost at the place where we could adopt those. So maybe we could set a target date for our next meeting out after the 7th. Yes. That is the 21st. Let's see, guidelines. We have a letter to establishments. So Steve. So I had. Yeah, you were going to. I told Mary and I was going to draft a letter for the establishments to remind them of the regulations related to our next subject. But unfortunately, I totally forgot in the world of rental registries in this week, but I can send something along to you all maybe really next week and we can get feedback and send it out if it looks good. Yeah, that sounds great. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. So onto the next topic, ABCC hearing update. Okay. So Steve and I were at the hearing on the 14th and Rob Morrow was there also. And the inspectors who, one of them who did the inspection and found the violations was there and just read off all of it, like kind of went through it very systematically. And Junior Williams from Hazel's Blue Lagoon was there. And it was very, it was over pretty quickly, wouldn't you say Steve? And said that he had made improvements. What he did offer as proof of improvements was a news article related to a concert. Is that right Steve? That he was, that the Blue Lagoon was having at the end of May. I believe he's, all that was mentioned in the hearing was a article published on May 30th, but I do believe it was likely that article that was in mass live. Right. I don't think it was related to the violations. No, it was related to a shooting in a Springfield nightclub. So they said they were going to have enhanced pat-down type security. Right. And he said they were going to be purchasing a new scanner or updating the scanner. And from what I understood from his testimony, he said that the security person who was involved is no longer there. So, I mean, I don't know. This is, you know, the ABCC what they, I had never been to a hearing before. And so we all kind of logged on and they did their, have held the hearing, read out the testimony. There weren't really any questions by anyone. And then everyone adjourned and we're waiting to hear what their findings are and the penalty is any. So Steve, did you have anything to add to that? I think that covered the hearing itself pretty wonderfully. It was pretty much just a recitation of the investigators report and a couple of comments by the owner. But I did get a response from Brian Riley about the question of parallel jurisdiction. Oh, great, great. So he said that ironically, he had an ABCC hearing on those exact facts in 2014 where ABCC did a sting and caught the restaurant serving to minors. They had their own hearing and gave a three-day suspension, but all three were held in abeyance. The LLA for that town didn't like the result and held its own disciplinary hearing based only in the ABCC investigators report and issued a three-day suspension. Surprisingly, that was the first time the ABCC had ever heard the issue, but they ultimately disapproved the suspension for essentially double jeopardy reasons where the board of select in that town had no evidence of its own and the ABCC found that to be unfair. But in a case where a licensee, a similar situation like this, where a licensee was then a different violation occurred later and on the local level, that could be justification for a stricter penalty than otherwise might be used. All right, great. So yeah. I'm thinking I should add language to reflect that in our license regulations. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I may. I definitely think if the ABCC does, it sounds like from what Steve was saying is that we couldn't basically bring them in front of us to do a hearing for the same violation because, hey, we didn't collect evidence so we don't have it and it's kind of double jeopardy, but it is allowed. And I think this is, if you look at how the licenses are required, piece of information that are required on the licenses that if they own other establishments, they have to list those and they have to list whether it's any violations because that's a critical piece of information for us relative to issuing a license. I think likewise, this is parallel. It's like the ABCC finding something and potentially disciplining them can be a contributing factor in our evaluation of our penalty if there's a subsequent violation that we find. So I think that's something that we wanna definitely consider it. It's not as though, it's just a different governing, but it doesn't mean we ignore it. It's not inadmissible, I guess it's term. So I think that would be, I think we should keep that in mind that we can consider their ABCC's actions and the findings that they have as part of the information for us if we have a violation. So we don't have, we can basically, I think what I was hearing from Steve was basically, that if we do a violation, it's technically number two. So like we have a sort of listing of a violation one, it's this, violation two, it's this, violation three, we have a kind of progressive discipline circumstance. I think we could and should count the ABCC hearing as one of those in the count of violations. Even though we didn't expressly do it, it still counts. But we just can't issue our own panels on top of it. Yeah, I think that's... Okay, what if we had issues? Okay. Any other questions? Dylan, yes. I guess my question here too is like, what mechanisms do we have for our own type of enforcement? You know, I know across the street, it's something, you know, Garcia's does the Monday night, Monday night mariachi band. I don't think they have a live music license, but I tell people like, hey, I write the regulations, I don't enforce them. So I guess they just do that. And they have the license, we prove that. They have the license, we give them. Oh, I must have missed that meeting then. But who's going to say like, what mechanisms do we have for an enforcement there? Doug. Doug can answer that one in pretty clearly. Actually, you can enforce it. As licensure, I think we technically can. There was separate from this. There was an incident in Hadley with one of the select board members who was a local licensing authority was trying to utilize a little more of his authority that was really there to impose some things. No, I think we could, if we were, if any of us is, it happens to be an establishment and we know that they violate the liquor regulations or whatever, we are entirely capable of essentially bringing it as an issue before ourselves for that purpose. And I think we only had to do this once, but I don't think we have to renew it. We have delegated that authority or created, delegated the police department as our agents for enforcement. So they do, and they obviously do it, certainly if they hear complaints, but they do also periodically when they have an opportunity, have officers go undercover. So they find officers that are younger looking and go ahead and try to buy and see whether or not they did or didn't card and they ask around. I mean, that's partly how we first heard from Porta. Way back when, so they do serve as our agent, they do actively go out. Two or three times a year, I think they'd like, they would probably do it more if they had more opportunity to, but I think we can be enforcement agents ourselves. I think we can, it gets a little weird, it would be better if you notice something to call the police department, say, hey, can you take a look at this? Cause they're much better at the sort of pragmatic aspects of collecting evidence and making the case and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I don't know. Counterpoint, Steve, when can we get our badge and gun? Like, step it up. I do actually know that one of the, at least one of the building commissioners is appointed as a special police officer for some kind of procedural reason, but it doesn't, I don't think he's assigned a badge and a gun, but maybe he's helping out with tickets, I don't know. Right, well, Dylan, if you're looking for something else to do. There we go. Steve, let us do that. Great, any other questions about this? We're just gonna wait, I guess, Steve, we'll just wait for the ABCC decision and we will report. Yes, Doug. Is that the only question? Did they give any indication about when they would make a decision? No. Do you know how to find out about that, Steve? Is that just, they just decide? I don't think there really is, I mean, last hearing I attended, the only other hearing I ever attended was the appeal hearing for a high horse and they never got back to us. The license ended up just expiring from non-renewal, really. But I think they're probably better with these kinds of things and it's we're a little bit out of the weeds of COVID now, but I mean, I really couldn't even guess. Yeah, is there someone we can call there? But I could find out. I could reach out to somebody and ask when they... Okay, that would be good, just so we know. And if I may jump on a related topic to topics not reasonably anticipated. Yes, did we have, oh yeah, let's go right on to that one. There was an advertisement I became aware of that I do feel obligated to share of Hazel's Blue Lagoon where this is the, what can I say? The happy hour. Yeah. I don't know. Not so happy anymore. June 15th, oh, this was last night. Yeah. We missed it. I didn't make it, but... I have to follow them on Instagram. I don't know what I'm doing here. Well, yeah, they need to know what the law is on the happy hours. Yeah. I was aware of this advertisement as well, which I guess isn't prima facie. Am I pronouncing that right, lawyers? But isn't prima facie evidence of a happy hour violation but a little bit suggestive. And then this one certainly obviously is. And so I sent the owner an email asking if he could explain that. And then about 15 minutes later, I walked out to get lunch and bumped into him in the parking lot and we had a little conversation about it and he didn't seem aware of the regulation. So I filled him in. I mean, the hour is also concerning. I forgot about that when I was speaking to him off guard, but the license only goes until one, of course. Yeah, that's not great. Okay. Can the, separate from the alcohol, can they by virtue of their other license? Because that says the DJ is there till two. Oh, right. Are they able to stay open that late? Did they get, did they have that permission? Even if they don't, they can stop service about about one o'clock. They can stay open until two, if they have the zoning authority to do that. And if they, yeah, that would be the thing I think about with that, with the two of you. Well, they're, let's look at their common Vic. Right. The common Vic, probably. And it doesn't actually appear they have a live entertainment either. So. How about we just invite him to come to the next meeting? Yeah, go ahead. Well, I think, I thought they did a live entertainment license. Cause I did, they came to talk to us about it. We knew they were wanting to do music in their space. So I thought we grant, maybe we just said, oh, by the way, you need one of these and move it, it never got filed, but. It might have been that too. Cause I'm actually not seeing a common Vic either. And it could be, this is a weird address. It's kind of hard to find our system. So maybe it's just tucked away somewhere, but it could very well just not have ever been applied for or issued. Okay. Can you, before we, can you find out all of that, Steve? Just see if you can find it in the system. Yeah. We don't have many live entertainment licenses. So we'll just take me a second to look through all of them. Yeah, I'm not seeing anything. So I don't think they have one. I'm confident they don't have one. Common Vic, it might be a bit of a deeper dive with the numbers there, but we don't have many live entertainments and there's not one for that site. Right. So they need one of those. So can you email him with a link to the live entertainment license? Yes, I can do that. And I'll check on common Vic too. Check on the common Vic. And he understands about the happy era law. I tried to make it clear to him. I mean, I don't know what the board would like to do in this situation. I can have another conversation with him or he could be brought in or this is a violation that could be pursued. I felt I should leave the decision to you. He didn't really seem aware of the provisions, but. But I would lean towards having, you have another conversation with him, Steve, before we bring them in front of us. Yeah, let's start with a conversation. Okay. I mean, would it be helpful to send him some decisions enforcing against happy hours so that, I mean, those are, there are plenty of those that will explain the law as applied to a case. Yeah, there's ABCC has a couple helpful FAQs. Okay. So. You know, maybe Steve, what we should do is start with some kind of letter or email with a lot of some of this stuff in there. And then because our next meeting isn't until the 7th of July. And I don't know. And then we can invite him like suggest that he, like invite him to the meeting on the 7th just so that he comes prepared if it's necessary at that point. How does that sound? If it's necessary meaning. Like I think he's still, I don't know, do we want to just talk to him anyway? Everybody? Yes. Yeah. It wouldn't hurt. I mean, it would be, hopefully the ABCC will have made a decision by the 7th. But I think the reason for us to have the conversation is just to say, hey, you know, you know, we're aware of the ABCC action. We're aware of what they did or didn't do. Yeah. We know that we will measure, you know, we will consider that if there's any further violation, please, you know, be extra vigilant relative to this. And certainly, you know, I mean, I think like, you know, the fact that it was yesterday on the half of, you know, happy hour thing. We're definitely going to say, well, we're going to keep an eye on this moving forward, partly because ABCC found something, but also it appears there's some other things that are a little, you know, in violation as well. So, you know, the advertisement may not be sufficient evidence of a violation, but certainly we want them to kind of cease and desist on that we can kind of think we can use it as an informational thing, but also a warning like, hey, we noticed that we can. So we're going to take more serious action if there's another violation. And again, if there's other violations, you know, when we get to renewal time at the end of November, you know, we're not compelled to necessarily renew anyone's license, but if there are things that are, you know, if there's small, but continuing problematic actions by them, you know, I think that's a consideration when we go to do a renewal. Even if it's not to, you know, that's an option available to us, I think it's the not renewal license we virtually never do, but I mean, if we felt like we're being kind of taken advantage of and not being sincere about meeting the regulations and state law where they need to, I think it's a consideration. I don't want to over threaten things, but. I mean, I think this is a violation of the license. You can't, you know, advertising a violation of your licenses is inconsistent with your license. I think that's correct. I think offer for sale is, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, it's going to just say this in moderation rather than calling them in for the 7th, couldn't we work for them to get them in and we can discuss some of these things, but they're going to have to get a common big and a live entertainment license. So by default, they'll be coming in on the 7th anyway. So rather than kind of a, we want to talk to you about this, I think just so people don't have their guards up and get really defensive, then it's better to fast track those and ask. And if in the meantime, Steve has sent an email with information about happy hour and other things that might be a little less controversial. I think that's a wonderful approach. Everybody okay with that? Yes. Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, the other, I don't, it doesn't seem cool, but the other question would be sending this information to the ABCC. I mean, they have an open case. They do. Should we do that? I'm not opposed to it, that's for sure. The folks who are at the hearing, what do you guys think? I wanted to attend, I wasn't able to make it, but what would be your takeaway today? Did ownership really seem like they were oblivious to it? Like it's quite possible you got a bouncer at the door who's looking the other way because he's got a girl he's interested in. It's totally possible. Were they wholly unaware of this or are they making a quick buck capitalizing on that under 21 market? Cause the rest of these fools aren't going for him. Yeah. I mean, the owner owns a place in Chicape. So ostensibly he is well-versed in the carding and at least happy hour regulations. Right? I mean, that's statewide. Yeah. So it's not like it's a new business owner. That is one thing to consider. He did seem very a conciliatory and apologetic. He did, I remember a specific wording was to get another ID scanner. So I mean, there was at least six documented fake ID. Well, one of the people didn't even have a fake ID or at least they didn't give it to ABCC, but there was at least five documented fake IDs. So either they weren't using or they have a really terrible ID scanner, but. Yeah, done. I think the notion of whether to forward those Instagram ads to ABCC, I think given what Allie just reminded us of, relative to the fact they own another license in another community, I think that's a, because of that, I think it's more important for us, Christie, for you to share that with ABCC, just to say, oh, by the way, you know, this is, you know, that I think it's more important for us to send it. If they were, you know, if they were, you know, if this was their first license in the state or something like that, I think being a little less draconian would be okay, but I think in this given, you know, that reminder that they own another alcohol service, you know, in license in the state, they really should be aware of that. And so I think that's worth sharing with the ABCC and it might impact their decision-making relative to their penalties. My understanding is they closed that business to open this one, just as a matter of time, you know, time constraints. But still, basically- Yeah, I mean, I couldn't forward it along. I don't really think it could affect their current decision at all, because it's really, you know, totally separate charges. Right. Yeah, it's potential information for sure. Yeah. Right. So is that right, that place in Chickpea, was that a restaurant or did they have a liquor license on that state? I think it was a more traditional restaurant with a liquor license. It was, okay, so they should have known. All right, great. Well, sure. I guess just forward those Instagram pages and for the ABCC. Do we know if our police department is checking up? Steve, you sent them a copy of the ABCC report. Is that right? Yes, I spoke to them and they're aware of it. They're aware of it? Okay. All right. So we'll just have to, and of course, if the Amherst police go and that's a different kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, I guess I'd say if Steve, you feel like you don't have a normal channel to have that exchanged and it seems very extraordinary, then I guess I'm open about not doing it, but if you have a channel of communication with them anyway, then it just seems like pertinent. Yeah, I don't have a normal channel of communication with the investigators, although I do have the contact information of one. I don't remember if he was involved in this case or not. I could send along with the parallel jurisdiction question. It's interesting. I think if it was the Amherst, and I'm not putting these words in your mouth, but if the situation was the Amherst, LLA is choosing not to enforce on this violation, but just wanted you to be aware. I think that's one thing. I think just the context of with the parallel jurisdiction is the town trying to... Am I making sense there? Yeah, we don't want them to think we're letting things slide by. Is that what you're trying to say? Well, we're just... I wouldn't want to put off the impression that we're not taking action, just passing the buck along, I guess. And I think the board has every right to take action or not take action on something, but I think just... If there was a statement that just so you're aware about the LLA has decided not to do any enforcement action on this versus just FYI, you know what I'm saying? So it doesn't seem like we're trying to have them do the enforcement work for us as opposed to just we address the situation with a conversation, but just so you're aware, I guess. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so Steve, you'll send an email to Mr. Williams with the... We'll make sure the common vic is up to date and he needs a liquor license. I mean, a live entertainment license. And then also information about the happy hour law. And the hours of operation. Hours of operation. And then see if we can get that license as hell as a fast track so that he can come in on the seven and then the conversation. That would be great. All right. It's very important. Thank you so much. All right. Anything else? Oh, have you heard about if they've extended remote meetings or what plan is for the summer? I'm glad you asked. Although I don't have any good answer. I was in a department-wide meeting today. So there's a lot of other people who support boards and committees and that question was asked and there was not an answer. So I know, but I know people are talking about posting meetings. I don't remember off the top of my head when the... If the... I kind of missed a little bit of that conversation. I didn't quite get a couple words there but I don't know if somebody expected it to expire soon or if it was just a question of meeting posting of just just time coming up. I know somebody else asked is, cause I'm kind of not sure how to post meetings coming up in July. So either way, we're gonna have to figure out quickly and it's not a license commission specific issue. So I expect there will be some information coming down from on high soon and I will pass along to you as soon as I know. Steve, is the town room enabled for interactive hybrid participation? My understanding is that it is and it's been used as such by the town council in some occasions, but it's pretty labor intensive and complicated to set up is what I've heard. Thank you. Okay, so our next meeting is July 7th at five o'clock. And is there anything else that we need to discuss? Any other topics not anticipated? If not, is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Doug, is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. You just froze. Oh, I froze? Yeah, for a second. Oh, sorry. We're gonna take a vote. So we've got the motion and the second and we're taking a vote. Gaston. Aye. Okay, Doug. Aye. Dylan. Aye. Kelly. Aye. I vote aye, five to zero. We're adjourned at 6, 18 PM. Thanks everybody. Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you. Thank you. Seven. Thank you. Good evening. Hi. Good night. Go the rest of your summer or until July 7th anyway. July 7th. All right.