 So regarding the psychology of the digital second self, I definitely think about that a lot because I'm an artist and I feel I went to school at PNCA and I feel like they really ingrained on us that we have to market ourselves and we have to keep a certain image and so I'm like I feel obligated to have an Instagram like so that You know curators can contact me because it feels like even my website isn't the first like their first choice is like They see me on Instagram They look through my work and they decide if they want to contact me or not and it feels like that's my gateway to opportunities and It really is confusing because for example, I don't really I don't really like to take like selfies or really post My personal life on Instagram. I try to keep it more of like my artwork and the things that I'm doing but it seems like It's the selfies in the Going out and like where did you go eat? Where did you go out to party? It feels like people care more about that and with this new Instagram algorithm They like kind of dictate whether you're important or not, which is so scary like and I do I will sometimes like delete my Instagram because I'm like this is Crazy like this is like I feel like I'm seeking validation from my cell phone and It's you know, I don't know I don't know if I should quit social media and like just try to network in person or I Don't know what do I become invisible if I don't have an Instagram anymore? I Mean I think I'm hearing a lot of things in that that's really cool I mean among one of them that's interesting is that like, you know, I Just kind of automatically I'm hearing that just kind of individual kind of personal You know introspective identity and like what we can simply call brand Have honestly started in her fucking in a way that just I don't think most of our Species has ever had to deal with for the last. I don't know how many hundred year cycles and I mean with that Therein comes the question of like, you know, like, okay, so our like Hyper performative identities and our hyper internal identities are, you know These structures and platforms are at least are kind of encouraging us to basically like put them in an immersion blender And pipe it out into the prettiest 3d mold we can find and serve this to our audience You know the question and then so there's this kind of interesting thing that I'm noticing over time and I think around 2011 I was introduced this idea of disambiguation Which from what I understand basically means like, you know How can you just Take something that's been curated for you for so long and just do it yourself And so I mean the issue with social media and kind of personhood is that you know Like this personhood for ourselves or is it for other people and ultimately that line is blurry You know and the answer is for me at least both. Um, yes and um, and so Like with this emerging technology, you know are kind of we the technologies that we have in the opportunities and infrastructure We have to basically work with and manipulate identity formation is being backed by individuals and projects and owners and stakeholders that Want clicks? They don't give a shit about what we become what we do um, I have friends who have like committed suicide on Instagram for not live, but like, you know, like They don't care Hi, I'm Angela and I'm researching a book on social media How it affects people is really important. I mean the people who create these networks. I mean I think they have a lot of ethical Responsibilities that they're not living up to and I'm like there are no there are a few laws that govern how they can create a platform and so So I mean they're not necessarily Creating platforms that are healthy or that are good for people They're creating platforms that make money that people get addicted to whether it's and if it you know causes you to like I Don't know get divorced lose your mind They don't care. They just want there's people are just Trying to make trying to make money and what the platforms do is I Mean they they collect so much data on you. I mean all software online collects a lot of data on you, but Social platforms I Know everything about you basically I mean everything people spend like hours and hours on social media and that's so As so these networks, I mean like they're so entangled with our lives because we spend all our lives on them and It's interesting that people will spend like 14 hours on social media a week Wondering what their friends will do, but they won't spend one hour a week Figuring out how the social networks work like what the algorithm is What they're what they know about you how they're monitoring you and so it's just Sort of odd. I mean like people have created these big networks and they They tell the public oh This is how you Can get more publicity. This is how you can get more business. This is how you can make friends or date and No one like questions like No one questions like the motivation behind any of the platforms and I find that bizarre and people should start like questioning like how the networks different platforms Make them feel if they're improving their lives or making you know if being on like Instagram is improving your life or Making you feel worse That's all I have to say. Yeah, it's sometimes Hard to tell if Social media is making you feel good or bad I think It's like Most things I think that people get addicted to it's like You know, there's like a certain amount of dopamine that you get from it and so that's good like it feels good, but Yeah, obviously ultimately it's like at least in my experience. It's definitely been and that negative Like I've I've actually I see the the utility of it and I really like it to have communities and know where when shows are and communicate and Put art up or whatever have a conversation about politics But But yeah, I guess I would dive into it and then like immediately just Fall off like, you know Facebook or Instagram It would be like I would be into it for a while and then I would just I would have this impulse to like check it and That would scare me so I just like the limit it but Yeah, it's a weird sort of thing where it's like the good and the bad You got to check in with yourself, I guess and it's not always like easy to do maybe I Mean one thing I'm also hearing across all of this is that This really brings this face-to-face with a lot of vulnerability in a really interesting way So I mean for me is least one thing I really struggle with with all this is that I have a movement our background That means that anything everything that I've ever done Comes from practice. Everything is rehearsed. Everything is rehearsed And so then just comes in, you know, so at least in like music and dance There's this idea that like even if something is choreographed even something's rehearsed You can still put real feeling into it And so then there's the question of them like how do we be our authentic off? How do we be like authentic on social media? And you know, there's a lot of this like, you know, like, you know, there's You know, there are people who talk about how like Everything is performativity and if everything is performativity everything is fake or everything is real But like let's hearken back to the early 2000s of my space when people like had I forgot what the feature was called but that one where we were able to actually just like make one post had one module and Everyone could see what you've done and like I just remember people like actually just saying how their days went and Just like, you know Yeah, bulletin post because like, you know back then like, you know, like that back in like at least a I am in my space I remember like we would talk to the internet like we talked to other people our conversational Dialects we're still that of like conversational speech at least in my circles We've gotten a lot more ironic everything, you know, like we have like maybe like a fourth to fifth to, you know, like I'm a shit poster, right? And so like, you know, we We use, you know, we use we've been basically we've basically trained or each other and ourselves to basically use irony and Basically fakeness as a way to basically foil. How do we actually feel? And you know, I'd like to get back to a point where we actually get to say what we feel and that saying like hi I'm sad and lonely and tired itself means something I'd like to get back to that point because like right now like the art that I'm doing Like I just did a shoot like a couple days ago that was just basically just me angrily writing the phrase value neutral on things like and the fact that I have to do that to at least Get an idea that you know, like, you know, like being shot and just having a sense of like, this is who I am This isn't who I'm trying to be. This isn't a first person impression This is like, you know, like we've lost a lot of an ability to be unfiltered individuals And even when we are unfiltered individuals on like Facebook and like in these curated like one was the last time We saw someone have a nervous breakdown on Facebook. It's not pretty Um, they're used to and this is like weird and messed up But like on Facebook unlike on my space like in the earlier ages of am and stuff like when people had bad times Like when we were going down like when things were hard, like we responded to that struggle in a completely different way Our empathy has changed. Yeah, I definitely see what you're saying with that. I would say that that makes sense to a degree, but I think that What I would suggest in my own personal life is stepping away from or using I would say using social media more as a tool Than an identity. I think that you like separating those two ideas would be the most helpful in saying that, you know There because there's there's a balance to everything and and finding that balance would be Instead of talking to the internet like it's a person and like it's you know people or you know your friendships You're investing, you know yourself. You're investing your time into something that's That's non-tangible. That's that that can destroy you that can hurt you that can you know, I mean there's trolls There's there's horrible things on the internet that can and it can really turn in a really ugly way The way that the world won't the way that you know You can have a one-on-one conversation and kind of recover from that whereas the internet I mean it's it is you know ruthless So I think finding that like that balance and having that like, you know using it as a tool rather than an identity That's a real that's a really good point. Um, so I just wanted to say that Like when you post your blog or pictures or life on Facebook and you don't I mean like say you post a blog on Facebook and or Trying to think of another blog platform. You don't you don't own that if you get political and Facebook Decides they don't like you they can kick you off and you would lose all your writing. So it's better to have a website and Probably at most people have a website, but I know some people use Facebook or other types of platforms Social platforms as their like website or blog and but it's better to have a website Try to get people to go to your website Then to use Facebook as a blog or another social platform as blog because then you don't own your your work and Facebook does But that just kind of addressing the like internet is cruel and heartless part of that I mean When I was 16, I was going through some pretty terrible stuff and like One stranger she claimed to be like, you know, she was on a forum 55 year old woman I'm never sure her name never shared her address would still email me every three days made sure I was alive She didn't know me she didn't know who I was she didn't want me to know who she was and like So yeah, no the internet's definitely cruel, but the other thing about it. That's really interesting and terrifying is that like I think that I I didn't have the benefit of Having enough English fluency when I was growing up to connect with people and to empathize properly I didn't have anyone around me So a Lot of people have a world to fall back to like outside of the internet, but this will sound absurd but like That isn't the case for a lot of people I Know the internet's a tool. I know it's a device But on the other hand, there are also people there who will uplift you and also put you down as you said But also like, you know, I've had my life life life saved by strangers who I'll never know who they are I Think that treating it as a tool is definitely like The most appropriate and sensible kind of way of handling this wild technology right now but It's more than just a tool right now from what I can tell like it's a community like I like My god, I think my favorite example of the internet right now and it's unfortunate because it's tumblr, but there The level of support that I've seen from marginalized minorities the ability for these people to get together and hold each Other's hands through problems that no one including me like, you know, we can't understand them and they're here and they're capable of doing that that like We could call community a tool completely correct but There's still that spark like how do we carry that spark? How do we keep that going and not degrade our entire identities and our communities in the process like you know Like, you know, like how do we get this ethereal and tangible like how do we get these things to bridge like we they're not the same They are and aren't at the same time that paradox is something we're going to need to work out and like you know in part I think that a huge part of what's happening on the internet now like with a lot of this anger in this politics is that you know like At least what I'm hearing and seeing is that like I hear nothing but pain. I hear isolation. I hear loneliness. I hear hunger for love and like We have to find a way to give that give people that and like I think we're close and I Think that once we get a handle on that we have to be really careful about it, too I remember like like a decade ago and like a lot of this was new like I joined flicker and I would post photography there and we had a nice community of friends and we would all like You know, we would meet up once a month and we go take photos And then we would share them and then we would talk about and see each other regularly and all and that that felt good I mean, there was no at that time most of us would just pay the 25 bucks a year for flicker and Our interactions and we had groups and we would have discussions about photography and stuff and about life in Portland We did projects together on Portland and all that was great But I feel like and then but then our I feel like it was more authentic because Because we were just we were paying flicker and we were just like a group hanging out together and now the incentives are such that Since we are not paying we're kind of being used by the platforms for, you know Whatever content that we're creating and as a result It's it's losing some of the authenticity and it's hard to create that Community unless you already have created in some other way outside But that's how I have I have found it to be It's like either If you're there for like a purpose of, you know, let's say Instagram you're there for like the pictures and photography But then there are, you know, bunch of other people that are there basically to promote other things and to sell products And it's kind of hard because it's all kind of mushed together And I find it sometimes hard to like separate out Like hey, this is like, you know, here's some pictures with my friends and I will just share it with them But then there are other people also looking at them and I know it's it's kind of I feel like that the incentives are so mixed up right now on some of the larger platforms that A lot of people are including myself have found other places to go and we have created private Network instances like Slack or whatever and a whole bunch of them where we just hang out with our friends and we completely have a separate ourselves out from a public a public-facing You know site and other is all I've reduced my usage on like, you know, Facebook and And Twitter and all that but I also miss some of the good things that they provided and That's the balance that I'm having a hard time with like, I mean Twitter was really great in the beginning. I made a lot of friends I it helped my professional career in many ways The networking that I build over there and the people I met and all of that is like, you know, it's It's a part of it that I miss and now I have to kind of figure out other ways to do some of those things But I guess Part of me is also glad that I'm not going to Twitter and giving them my attention and they're not making as much money out of me as You know, maybe they're making like two cents from me instead of 20 cents or whatever But yeah, that's it's um I have these mixed feelings constantly about like some of the larger social media platforms I feel like a big part of that is just how Fast things have changed like I feel like 10 years ago things weren't as immediate because You were accessing things more often on your computer than you were on your phone. So things like My space and tumblr like I feel like gave People like more freedom to remain anonymous Whereas like I feel like things like Instagram which I feel like it's probably one of the most popular like social media platforms right now is kind of give like Gives you Or like it makes you feel like you have to not be anonymous Like you have to like curate this vision of yourself and like going back to what you were saying about being Vulnerable, there's actually people that are building entire art practices from being vulnerable on Instagram like I think it's art girl 666 I can't remember but she or Molly soda I Don't know there's like a couple of like artists that like pop up when I think of that who will you know We'll post like really unflattering pictures of themselves like right when they wake up Or they're having like a panic attack and they'll like take a video of that so that they can show this like Real side like what they're really experiencing which like It's interesting because even that becomes this curated project and then like and then there's also these like tropes of like little Makayla like that CGI Instagram person that it's like a CGI Bang or like person like this character put into like real-life situations with like real people And like designer clothes and like kind of like what Instagram is making a lot of money up, which is like these young famous Like wealthy people going on vacations and like showing all the things that they do but it's a CGI Like you know what I'm saying thousands of followers and people wondering, you know, is this Person real is this Photoshop like what is this? So I think that's Those are like for me. I feel like really interesting parts about this digital Self or like the way because this is like history like this is like things that we are going to Do a lot of research on things that are going to be in Books and things that are going to affect us as like humans like how we view ourselves and how we interact That's that's a good point. Um, so I wanted to say a few things. Um, People I okay I do social media and branding and People hang out in different spaces on the internet according to their age their gender the country they're from the profession they work in whether they're like you know like stay-at-home moms or like Whether they're like college kids or like senior citizens, they'll all be in different places like young Yep, a younger audience is on Instagram definitely in an older audience Uses LinkedIn Right, so everyone is like everyone People just use the internet and social platforms in different ways You said something about history that I didn't quite get but when you're Getting on a social platform. I would Well, I had this idea for a talk like how to make a website that I haven't done how to make a like a website last forever or become evergreen and I think that's sort of like good advice for being on social platform a social platform like Is your like are your posts going to be relevant like 10 years down the road five years down the road? 20 years down the road like are is what you're posting really? that important like I don't know. It's just something like Coming from a branding perspective You really want to find what is most meaningful to people all To your audience or to yourself if you're just posting like you're just online to yourself like I think you should Well, I can only speak from a business perspective really is just Finding what is most meaningful to people um Like and being authentic when you're like just trying to get friends and trying to be fake I guess and just saying your life is like perfect when you're like getting divorced and Everything's going terrible. You know that that doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help your friends. It doesn't help you So being authentic is like the best route to go I mean on that I think that yeah, I mean that's probably one of the most tragic components of the internet now we're like Being honest about our suffering doesn't help That's fucked up there. That's for connecting people The fact that we have to add an ask or CTA at the end of I just lost the love of my life Can you help me the fact I have to make that engaging the fact that I have to make that click They have to make the fact I have to make that share for sympathy hurts me. That's up. Yeah, that's absolutely awful and Like I think But yeah, I just was wondering if anyone's considered the evolution of social media spaces into like Tangible reality out here, but also like virtual reality in there where it's like I don't know if y'all have ever had experience with social VR and what happens in those spaces It's like living inside of 4chan or Facebook or anything But also it's literally anything that you want it to be and in there you do encounter a lot of people So a couple of things it's like instead of comments You're actually talking to people which changes it to something that doesn't quite real life But much closer to it than your standard text box and it does have a lot of that emotion That's put into your voice and that cadence when you're talking that's completely lost over text or even photographs or even like, you know Still like, you know video of you and another person although it's more engaging that way and So it's like you wind up getting in these long conversations with strangers who you like actually go out and meet in these Spaces that I think you would initially they're initially like very You know everyone's in one spot because one spot's the only spot that exists It's like the early web right now But it will eventually get to the point where it's like yeah that demographic hangs out in this world And that demographic hangs out in this world and this demographic hangs out over here And we don't ever want to go there Like, you know, there will be those worlds where we're just like area. That's quarantined But in the meantime, it's like as we're watching this evolution progress and we're in these spaces I know there's so many questions about it like almost done But yeah, it's like going to revert back to Something that's it's like I almost wonder how much of this is going to even be relevant in like a decade Because it's going to shift so fast like and right now they're all like oh higher you work in AR Do you want to do this project? I have this vision and it's like in that territory right now where it's like Yeah, it will be it's like the concept of mixed reality. It's in there It's coming out here and it's going to like turn me into a dragon and you into a wolf and you into a Pokemon And like, you know, it's going to turn this room into a giant cave Like you might see me as a Pokemon, but I might see you as like a werewolf And it's gonna get past the like just straight interpersonal things because those will just be discussed while I'm a werewolf And while you're a Pikachu and we're gonna talk about our depression together in this giant boat That's like, you know floating in space somewhere and like It's it's just I'm wondering like if anyone's considering how this conversation will shift dramatically once we do become embedded in these worlds and then it's like I guess How we can combat the worst parts of that because they do mimic a lot of the worst parts of our real tangible world minus The fact that they can't touch you Or punch you or anything. It's like, you know, there's there are consequences to your actions But they aren't the same consequences that we have here Um, and then that also enables like different types of creativity as a result And as a response. So I'm sorry. Okay. That was longer than I wanted to It's more like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like second life. It's the closest thing that it's ar, right? Uh, so ar hasn't quite manifested yet, but it's just like you you look at people's projects They want it to happen And it's like you will see people who have like figured out how to do javascript base like facial recognition that they can Mount onto their smartphone that turns all their friends into flamingos And like, you know dynamic flamingos that are turning around it's like I cannot take the flamingo off of my body I am just a flamingo to you and So it's like you see these smaller one-off projects happening And then those people get acquired by larger companies to then do their like snapchat Like friend filter be ar that then it's like, oh, yeah But if you all tune it to vr mode, then you're like in the flamingo world with your friends and it's like an ad You're saying remind me of that black mirror episode where you could block people in real life And you would just see static where they were and that's just basically ar with like a brain implant instead of classes, but That that's one endpoint Yeah, so I'm just um, I guess my main point was like So just a thing that's along that thread but also to tie it back to the previous conversations So one thing I'm noticing at least um with so as an email marketer for a long time. I'm sorry about the spam but um One of the components that I noticed about this was you know, like the two primary kpis that I've been measured on Well, three primary magic and kpis was one. Do they actually buy the product? Do they open my email and do they actually interact with my content? And you know, like in copy and like basically any form of like, you know as a consumer when I'm Experiencing and interacting with media. I assume that they want me to click this button by this object That this that the starving child in the ad wants me to donate to this 501c3 Um, and so we've been really we've really conditioned at least north american internet into Understanding that engagement has an ends to a means One thing I've noticed that's actually worked in my circles that I've been really curious about everyone else And just to open this into ar is that like I've noticed that when you deliberately shove people away when you play hard to get with an with an organization restructure It actually engages them, which is the part that really confuses me So when I tell someone hey, I'm starting a secret society You need to know how these three like religious systems work or you can't get in It self-selects for individuals and while I do filter out like 95.8 percent of the population The rest that come are already pre-engaged and ready to roll and like Just like, you know, just to tie this back to ar, you know, then, you know, the question there was like It's coming. We can't do anything about it Our best and worst qualities are being exhibited there to the extreme We've and we're like in the process of being conditioned To you know, I'm at a point where I associate. Oh, you want me to feel good. Oh, that means you want me to buy a product Oh, you want me to feel good. You think I I find you attractive. That means you want me to fuck you Um, and like and so that like that kind of the the like, you know The implied and the concrete have like in my mind as a consumer have they've they're one in the same now Um, the implication would you like to buy this product? What do you what do you what do you have in do you have interest in my stores? What do you like to buy my stuff? Okay. Well, this is sort of related to what You're saying off-handed way just the um Men and women use the internet in different ways. Um We have we have different perspectives, um and That's A lot of what goes on a lot of okay The biggest I think the big I'm pretty Certain this is true. Um, like porn is the biggest Like it's the most internet traffic of any other subject and then the second subject is like cats So we don't really use the internet In the most, um, efficient way or a useful way. Um, so that's all I wanted to say