 You and I met a long, well, we got in touch a long time ago because you heard the seventh anniversary special with Robert Green. With Robert Green, yep. And your book, Black Pro Village, was great. There's a lot of real advice in there, which I like, because you've used the advice that you give. You don't find that in books by celebrities, like ever. You don't find, usually the bio's like, I knew that by working hard and keeping my head down, I would eventually win. It's never like that, it's never really accurate. So props to you for writing something people can actually use. Yeah, I mean, I never consider myself a celebrity. That's number one. You know, and number two, I think when you come from an area like I come from, you know, monks corner South Carolina, a rural area on a dirt road, like a small town, when the beginnings are that humble, it's kind of hard to look at yourself as anything other than a kid who's making a living. That's what my mom always used to tell me. My mom says that to me right now. She goes, just be happy to be making a living. And that's just kind of like my mindset. So I guess the advice I give is just practical advice, because I'm just a kid who came from a dirt road in Monks Corner, South Carolina, who's just out here making a living. What was it like growing up? What was your childhood like sort of growing up? Because the place you're describing sounds like a really small town. It is. I mean, the funny thing is, Monks Corner was a small town that seemed like the biggest town in the world to me at the time. You know what I'm saying? It just seemed like a place that I didn't think I was going to be all my life, but it just seemed like the big city. Like I know it may sound crazy. Like if I go to Manhattan, or if I'm in LA, I still feel like I'm that kid on the dirt road in that small town, because I became a man there. You know what I'm saying? Like I didn't move to New York until 2006. Before that, I lived in Columbia, South Carolina, and I moved there in 2004. So like my whole life into my 20s, I was living in this town, Monks Corner, South Carolina. So it's just a country place. It's dirt roads. It's deer. It's raccoons. It's a factory town. Like you know what I mean? It's a place where if you work at the factory, you got a job. Once the factory closed, you just got to go find work. Like it's just a country. I don't know any other way to describe it. You always had sort of a hustle and grind. I mean, I know you used to, you had a little experience selling some crack back then too. Yeah, I was a small time crack dealer. Small time. Yeah. I mean, I was a small time crack dealer. Like I was a guy who sold quarter spoons. If you know a quarter spoons all there, seven grams of crack. And you're supposed to make $100 off each gram. You spend like $250 and you're supposed to make five, $600 back selling 20s. And I was never like a drug kingpin at all. Yeah, yeah. You used to carry brass knuckles. Still carry brass knuckles. You still carry brass knuckles? God damn right. I got brass knuckles on me right now. Really? I want to say you never know. That's true. You can't carry a gun in New York City. You know what I'm saying? You can't carry a gun in New York City, so you never know. If you better keep some mace on you, our little knife, our little brass knuckles. These are like aluminum knuckles for the modern age. These are not aluminum. What are these? Brass. Are they really? Yes. Did they legitimately have you? Yes. I had to use them like two, three years ago. There was this guy who tried to fight me coming out of the pharmacy. And this was after those dudes tried to jump me. And so that's when I started keeping my brother wax from me all the time. Because when I was coming out of the pharmacy, these dudes tried to just swing on me. And I just had to do them really, really bad. And I never want to do that. I'm not the guy that wants to fight. Some guys want to fight. They like violence. They like hurting people. I don't like that. You know what I'm saying? I'd rather walk away from the situation, have a conversation about the situation, and actually have a physical altercation. Plus, I'm growing as hell. Yeah, no kidding. You look stupid as hell having fistfights in your 20s and 30s, man. I'm not fighting nobody. No, that's ridiculous. But sometimes, I mean, I guess, like you said, people are trying to get you to react somehow. So it pays to be able to take care of yourself. And you got wax. He's not here right now, obviously. I mean, he's in the building. Walking around. Yeah, because you write about him a lot in the book, as well, in Black Privilege. Yeah, I mean, he's a guy that's been with me for like, what, 16 years now? 17 years? Something like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I've been knowing him for a long, long time. Like, I met him about, it was about 15 years. I met him in, like, 02. People are going to wonder why you call yourself Charlamagne the God. It has to do with the brass knuckles and the crack, right? No. No? No, no, no. Charlamagne, I used to, well, sort of kind of like with the crack, because I used to always call myself Charlie. Okay. Or Charles, because, you know, we used to have this crew called the infamous Buddha heads. So I would say my name was Charlie Chronic, you know? Like, my homeboy would be Matthew Marijuana. My other homeboy would be Ichabodism. And then, like, when I used to hustle, when the fiends would roll up, I'd have, like, a hoodie on and, like, a mask over my face. And I would say my name was Charles, because I'm from a small town. So if I was to say my real name or if they would see me, they'd be like, oh, that's Larry's son or that's Julie's son. Right. So I would just say my name was Charles. So that, for whatever reason, I don't even know why I picked that name Charles. So it was always Charles or Charlie. And then I was reading a history book in night school and it said Charles was French for... Charlamagne was French for Charles the Great. And so I was just like, oh, that's a cool ass name, Charlamagne. But I just spelled it wrong. I spelled it the way I pronounced it. So instead of C-H-A-R-L-E, it was C-H-A-R-L-A. And then, like, the God is just, you know, I was studying 5% teachings where they teach you that the black man is God. So really, my name makes no sense because it's Charlamagne the Great, the God. But that's what happens when you pick names when you're 17 and then they sound cool and they stick with you forever. And you stick with it, yeah. 5% is... I looked this up before and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. 5% is like, are those the African-Americans that are like, we're the actual Jews or something like that, right? Or is that something separate? No, no, no. Those are the Israelites. Yeah, right, right. Those are the Israelites. The 5% is... They're just... They're the 5% of the population who know the truth and want to teach the truth. That's it. And 85% of the people are blind, deaf, and dumb. 10% of the people... Yeah, 85% of the people are blind, deaf, and dumb. 10% of the people know the truth but don't want to tell the truth to the people. Illuminati style, right? Yeah, so yeah. And then the 5% are those that know the truth and speak the truth. So that's who the 5% is are. And they believe that the black man is God and the white man is the devil. So Charlamagne the God definitely beats your rap name which is Dizzy Van Winkle. You still use that? No, absolutely not. That was another dumbass name I just picked up when I was high all the damn time. Because for whatever reason I would listen to people when they told me like I was crazy. So I was looking up different, you know, in the Tessaurus, different words for crazy and Dizzy was one of them because it was like mentally confused. Oh yeah. And then I like was always intrigued about the story of Rip Van Winkle because he just went to sleep and like slept for mad long and then he woke up and then so it was like me. I was like, I'm Dizzy Van Winkle. I've been sleep for mad long. Now I'm woke. Oak. But I'm mentally confused. Makes no fucking sense at all. I dig it. When you explain it, it's cool. On its face though. Yeah, when you a kid and you high as hell it sounds like it could be something like, oh that's so fake deep. You know what I'm saying? And you're 15, 16 and you telling somebody that they like yo word. Especially when they just as high as you. Yeah, exactly. That's probably a requirement. But how did you break out of the gravity of the situation, right? You're in Moh's corner. People are under a tree, like you say in the book. And how did you break free of that gravity? I mean you could have ended up in that orbit and ended up under a tree too. I was thinking about this the other day because you know in the book I wrote and it's the truth like how my father would always tell me that if you don't change your lifestyle you're going to end up in jail dead or broke sitting under the tree somewhere. So of course I just learned from experience because I was looking around and I was seeing people around me actually going to prison and people around me going to jail all the time. People around me getting killed. I was going to jail. You know what I'm saying? My older cousins who I looked up to and just people I knew from the community that I looked up to was literally just sitting under the tree. You know what I mean? Doing nothing with themselves. So that became scary to me. And I realized that I just wanted to be something. So in order to change my life I had to change my lifestyle. But I thought I was thinking about that the other day because we always say these profound things like oh I wanted to transcend my circumstances and I just wanted to be successful. But the truth to the matter is I was scared. I was scared to death. You know what I'm saying? I was scared to be in one of those three situations. I was scared to be in jail. I was scared to be dead. I was scared to be broke sitting under the tree. And I think a lot of times we don't realize that fear is probably the fuel that motivates us to do 95% of everything that it is we do. Like we think we're being fearless but the truth to the matter is we're scared. And you should be. You know what I'm saying? I feel like people should live scared because living scared gives you a sense of urgency. You know what I'm saying? Living scared gives you a sense of purpose. You know what I'm saying? Like I think sometimes people get too comfortable and when they get comfortable they don't have any fear no more because like they just feel like oh I'm good. You know what I'm saying? I can kick my feet up. I can just coast through this thing called life. I think when you get to that point where you're not scared anymore something's wrong. Yeah, yeah you have to have that fire lit. Otherwise you gotta be hungry. Absolutely. Like fear is the fuel to that fire to me. So do you think that, and you write about this in Black privilege as well, that nobody's really a victim of circumstance in life, right? You can always recreate that no matter how you were raised. I think you can be a victim of circumstance but I think that you don't have to remain a victim of circumstance. You know what I'm saying? Like you can choose not to be a victim. Nobody wants to be a victim. You know what I'm saying? Some people are just born in the poverty. You know what I'm saying? Some people are just born into a family where both parents are drug addicts. Some people are just born in the hood. Some people are just born in the projects but you don't have to remain there. You know what I'm saying? So I think that, you know, yeah you can be a victim of circumstance but you don't have to remain a victim of that circumstance forever. You can transcend your circumstances. I don't give a fuck. I don't care what your race is. I don't care what your gender is. I don't care what your sexuality is. You can transcend your circumstances if you want to. The moment you think you can't is the moment you won't. Yeah. Yeah. You can kind of decide whether or not you're going to stay there. Absolutely. By inaction. Absolutely. Like I don't think you should be reduced by your circumstances. That's why I think people who are from the hood or from the ghetto are just from any poor and disenfranchised situation. They end up having these larger than life lives because if you don't choose to be reduced by your circumstances in your mind you're just going to be large because of your circumstances. Your mindset is going to be I'm not staying here. I'm going to find a way to get out of this situation. I am bigger than this situation. Like if you don't choose to be reduced by him then you're not going to, if you're not going to be Ant-Man you're going to be Giant-Man. One of the two. Do you think that finding other people's personal or finding things to read outside your own personal experience was key to that? Because it's, right now you're saying like okay visualize something bigger get your mind wrapped around something bigger than where you are now but if you don't have any experience with that at all where do you get it, right? How do you even know there's something bigger out there? Yeah for me it was music and books. You know what I'm saying? Like my mother was an English teacher so she would always tell me to read things that don't pertain to me. She would keep a book in my face and she was a Jehovah witness so I'd be reading all the literature from there. I'd be reading the Bible and then it was hip-hop music. Like you know I'm listening to these people who talk about these places that sound so dope. I'm here in Tupac City, living, dying in LA. I've never been in LA but he said it's the place to be. It sounds fly as fuck and it must be because all of these dope people are coming out coming from this area. You know what I'm saying? It's the same thing with New York. I didn't know what Shaolin was. You know what I mean? It just sounded like the greatest place in the world because Wu Tang was from there. And you move to New York and realize that New Yorkers don't even like Staten Island. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like music and books was like what helped me to transcend my circumstances and just realized that it was a bigger, broader world out there. Are you still reaching out and grabbing experiences that are outside your personal experience? Absolutely. Even more so now because I get to see more of the world. You know what I'm saying? I get to travel. You know what I'm hosting. I'm doing speaking engagements in different places. Yeah. I'm going over to London to do the podcast The Brilliant Idiots from my man Andrew Schott. So I'm traveling. Like I'm around. So it's like I'm open to that. Like I got a principle in my book called give people the credit they deserve for being stupid including yourself because you know it all knows nothing. And I say how you should always remain open to new experiences and new people because that's how you learn. Like growth is a constant thing that never stops until you die as far as we know. Evolution never stops until you're dead. Knowledge is infinite. Like I can constantly learn new things and unlearn bullshit that I may have always held on to. So it's just like I'm definitely always open to like new people, new places, new experiences. Like I love book recommendations. Like always. So you get a lot of flack for doing really candid interviews actually. It's gotten you fired four times? Yeah. I don't know if the interviews were what got me fired four times but yeah just stuff I do on the radio. Being candid on the radio. I mean one time I got fired because one of the program directors said that I told a caller to suck my big black dick on the air. And I'm like I would never say that number one because I never described my dick as big. That's number one. It's seven inches, three fourths, eight inches when it's warm out. I think that's pretty... Standard. Yeah standard. Standard American penis. And like number two, I would say something a little bit more witty than just suck my big black dick. You know what I'm saying? Yeah it doesn't sound original. Yeah. So it's just like I got fired for that. But what I've come to realize is a lot of times when I was getting fired it simply was just the radio game. That's just the business. You know what I'm saying? People get fired. You know and I never was one of those people who wanted to compromise because I don't see the benefit of the joy in getting on the radio and just doing time and temperature and you know announcing what the next song is. Like I didn't want to do that. If I got to do that then I'm not... It's not... I'm just collecting a check. You know I like being a personality. I like giving my opinion. I like you know starting conversation, having conversations. You came... You've come really far. How old are you now? I'll be... Well I just turned 38, 37, 38. Yeah so you're older than me and you are... You've come super far. Especially even compared to other people in radio for the age you are you've gotten fired four times. You're four times further along than half the personalities in radio. We have mutual friends Sam and Jim Norton. You were on their show a couple weeks ago. And like those guys and I were talking about this and we're like man you know Charlemagne's come really far in for his age despite being fired four times. But why... My question is who gets fired four times and doesn't quit? Why didn't you quit? I didn't have a backup plan. You didn't have a backup plan? There wasn't no plan B. I didn't go to college. I don't have a degree you know what I'm saying? I don't have a trade that I can go say you know what instead of radio I'm gonna go be a welder. You know what I mean? Instead of doing radio I'm gonna go try to get this business degree popping. Like I didn't have no other choice. Like that's to be honest with you that's all I really knew how to do as far as like corporate America and like it's like something that can actually make me money like a job job. Like I didn't know how to do anything else. That's always been my gift when it comes to radio. Like people were like oh you don't sound like a radio personality. It's like I'm not. Like I was really coming fresh off the streets in Monk Corner, South Carolina and being that I didn't know how to do radio I just talked. Right you just talked. I would just be me. Like I would just get on there and I would talk the same way we was just talking when I left the hood in Monk Corner. You know what I'm saying? I'd get on the radio and talk about I don't like that song. I don't like this artist. You know I get regular conversation answering phone calls and just talking to people kicking it with them. I remember a program director telling me one time yo you're not supposed to have this much of an opinion. Who said who? I didn't know that. That's why I was such a breath of fresh air when I heard Howard Stern and heard Wendy Williams and Star and Buck Wilde and got introduced to PD Green. Like I'm like these people got personalities. You know what I mean? When I was listening to Tom joining in the morning or Doug Banks. I'm like these people got personalities. Like who said you can't have an opinion on the radio? These people are expressing their opinion. So I just always would express mine. And that essentially is the only thing that makes a personality or person on the radio unique is the personality. And the old way of doing things is to get rid of all that and do what is it? Time, temperature and traffic? Are those the three things? Yeah, time, temperature, traffic. Announce the next song. Yeah. Hey, it's that new Kendrick Lamar Be Humble. The time is 7.32. The temperature is 56 degrees and you're listening to Z93 Jams in Charleston, South Carolina. Like. Which basically anybody could do that. Anybody can fucking do that. It's no skill set to that. You know what I'm saying? Like, listen man, contrary to people's popular belief having a personality is a talent. And being able to communicate that personality via microphone or via television is an extreme talent. And everybody can do it. Trust me, I know. I got a show on MTV or I had a show. I don't know if we're bringing it back or not but it's called Uncommon Sense. And my idea for that show was to have a bunch of the social media personalities as panelists on the show. Like, everybody always uses comedians and, you know, different celebrities to be panelists. I want to use these people that are so funny on social media. Man, we audition like 100 plus kids. Nothing. Nothing? Nothing. Because they're only funny on social media. They're only funny on social media. They don't even know how to communicate in person. They can't even look you in the eye and have a conversation. They don't know how to... They talk in whispers. You know what I'm saying? Like, they don't have it. They're not quick. Like, it's easy to like be funny when you got time to actually send out a tweet or be funny when you got time to think of a meme. Your writing team is sitting there like Googling relevant stuff. Yeah. Like, you might... You might like one... Like, taxidone was like literally the only person who was like like actually talented. How do you audition for things like that? I feel like I would crush something like that. Maybe I don't have enough... Maybe I'm 10 years too old for something like that. Nah. I think we're at a point in time right now where POV is so important. Doesn't matter what your agey is. I can just dress down. I'll just wear a hat sideways in a shape. I don't even think you have to do that. I really think that we... Like, you look at guys like Cal. Like, Cal is 40 plus years old. You know what I'm saying? Rick Ross is 40 plus years old but they just know how to communicate in a way to where everybody can relate to this. You know what I'm saying? I think that's just what it's really about. Like, it's just about knowing how to communicate with people. How much of your personality that you have now on radio and television is something that you developed when you were younger before any media? And how much of it do you think you've worked on and honed to be presented in the media? I think all of it is something that happened when I was younger. Really? Everything. Because it's like my abilities that I display on the radio, I really started displaying in sixth, seventh grade as sort of a defense mechanism. Once again, I was scared. I was scared because I was getting bullied. You know what I mean? I talk about it in the book. I was getting bullied by my older cousins. Like, I was this small kid that was in the small classes. But some of my older cousins, the cousins that were my age, they was like, nah, bro, you Larry's son. You're supposed to be over here with us. So I was afraid. So I kind of just started cracking jokes and saying what's on my mind before everybody else. Being self-deprecating, saying things about myself, making jokes about myself before anybody else would. So that was kind of like, I was doing it out of fear. So it's just like on the radio, it's kind of like the same thing because that's what I'm comfortable with. I'm comfortable with just expressing myself or being self-deprecating, cracking jokes on people, cracking jokes on myself like, I'm used to that. That's what makes me comfortable. So I feel like I developed that early. Is the cracking jokes on yourself, that's like, in fact, I think I read this in Black Privilege as well. It's like the eight mile theory where you're like, I'm gonna take all the ammo that they got against me, drag it out, take the wind out of the cells. That's one of my principles. One of my principles is live your truth so nobody can use your truth against you. And you know, it is the M&M and eight mile theory. And M&M and eight mile theory is like at the end of eight mile, be rabbit, set a freestyle about himself to where Papadot couldn't even respond. Papadot didn't have anything else to say. He was like, stuck. And that's what happens when you live your truth. When you live your truth, can't nobody use it against you. And that's just the type of person I am. Like, you know how they always say, when your true character is the person you are when nobody else is looking? So with that, I like to say the things that I don't even have to tell people. Like things that happened to me that I wouldn't have to say because I'm not hiding from any of it. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not afraid to talk about any of it because I'm not putting on a character. I am who I am. So I just feel like that's the best way to be, man. Just live your truth so nobody can use your truth against you. You got a big mouth, but also big ears, which is what you wrote. What does that mean? Why is that valuable? Because I mean, I'm a better listener than I am a talker. And it's valuable because if you do interviews, you know, when you're the type of person that interviews someone, you have to listen to your guests. Like, I go into interviews with 10 prepared questions. You know what I'm saying? Always. I always got like 10 things I know I want to ask this person. Just 10 things as a fan. Like, we had two chains on the other day. And I like his album Pretty Girls. Love trap music. So I had questions for him about different things, different elements I heard in the album. I had those. But being that I'm listening to the things that he's saying, I might not even get to those questions until like 15, 20 minutes into the interview. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because the conversation, I go where the conversation goes. I'm listening to him. Because I don't know what's on this brother's mind this morning. His brother might have some other things he wants to talk about. You know, we'll get to the music. But let me see where his mind is at first. You know, that's why a lot of times the first thing I say is, how you doing? How are you? You know? And then actually listen to the answer. Actually listen to the answer. You got to be a great listener in order to be a great speaker or be a great interviewer. You use that in everyday life other than on the radio? Yeah. I feel like that's, you've been married for how long? I've been married. It'll be three years this year. But I've been on my wife since 1998. Since high school. The listening part comes into play in the relationship element as well, I would imagine. Oh, absolutely. I mean, not like it should. I mean, that's when the problems start. The problems start when you're not listening. You know what I'm saying? Like you're too into yourself. You know, that's why you have to listen to your partner. Because a lot of times you're not listening to your partner. And when you're not listening, you're not communicating. She's talking to you and you're not really paying attention. Next thing you know, your relationship is in shambles and you was like, you're sitting in like, what happened? I didn't know you was upset. Like I didn't know you didn't like this about me. I didn't know that, you know, you had a problem with this. You know why? Because you weren't listening motherfucker. Gets out of control. Absolutely. So listening is key to any relationship. How long's your book been on the bestseller list now? The book came out April 18th and it spent seven, eight weeks on the New York Times bestsellers list. Nice. And we're going to keep it. It spent seven, eight straight weeks. And you know, I'm sure that it'll pop back on it. After this, it's certainly better. I heard you sell a lot of books. We sell a lot of books. And I think this is one of those books that I highly recommend, not just because you're on the show, but because like I said, advice from people who've applied it and then turned around and thought about it and then wrote it down is more useful than somebody whose job it is just to give advice that they've never used or that they've never actually tested, which is why we test everything that we can at Art of Charm as well. And a lot of it's cool and counterintuitive. Like one of the things that was early on in Black privilege was fuck your dreams. And I was like, wait, what? And I had to hit rewind, which is one reason why you probably wrote that like that. But explain that. What does that mean? Fuck your dreams when they're not your dreams. You know, a lot of times when you're growing up in the hood as an African-American, the people you see that are successful who look like you in entertainment are athletics. So everybody wants to be a rapper, a singer. They want to be the next LeBron James or Steph Curry or Michael Jordan and it's like, yo man, that's not your dream. That's just something you see working for somebody else. And I feel like we've lost a whole generation of people to the rap game. Like of course you got the people who are, I guess meant to do it. So they got it done or the people who just worked hard enough and got lucky with it. I don't say got lucky. I don't believe in luck like that, but just got a record to go. So now they getting show money or whatever. So you look at them as successful, but 95% of people that aspire to be those things aren't gonna make it. So like for me, it's like, yo, go find out what it is that God really wants you to do. What's your destiny? Even if you don't believe in God, man, I just like to believe in this analogy of, you know, there's something bigger than us, right? And that's something bigger than us has given everybody on this planet something that can change the circumstances of their life, that can bring in some money or that can just make them happy because success to me is subjective. I talk about that in a second, but it's like imagine this Christmas and everybody in the world, everybody has something under the tree. That one thing that can change your whole situation. Man, some people gonna find it before others. Some people gonna get frustrated that they can't find theirs and give up. Some people gonna get jealous and envious of the person that found theirs before them. Like it's just all type of scenarios that can stop you from finding what it is that you're good at that can absolutely change your life. And to me, that's what you should be pursuing. You should be in pursuit of that dream that can cause you to be happy. Like, you know what I got? I love that Kid Cuddy's on pursuit of happiness, but it's true. Like, you know, happiness to me is what we're all really pursuing at the end of the day. And it's probably a happy garbage man, I think. It's literally probably- I guarantee you that. I guarantee you it is. It's a kid that all his life, he watched the garbage man come through his hood and pick up the garbage and said he looked like he's having mad fun on that truck. That's what I want to do. And he went and did it and he's happy. And that's why I say success is subjective because success is just what makes you happy. Like we got this thing in America where we equate success with celebrity or we equate success with, you know, money. That's not always the case. Success is just what makes you happy. Like if you wake up in the morning and you got a job that makes 30 grand a year but your wife is happy and your kid is happy and you're able to provide and you're happy with that, that's success. So like pursuit of happiness is what the real dream is. All that other stuff, fuck your dreams. How can we tell if somebody is telling us fuck your dreams because they want you to focus on what you're good at, which is like what you're telling us right now, or what you might be good at, versus telling you to give up because they already gave up on their dreams. Well, you just got to pay attention because you got to understand that there is toxic energy out there. Like I talk in the book about a cousin aunt. The reason I call her a cousin aunt because she's not like my aunt, but she's like my cousin's aunt and like my parents' cousins. So I call her a cousin aunt. You know, and I remember one time I was in the kitchen I had just got my internship with radio and I think I had just started getting on the airport time and I was also doing like, I was working at this record label called Never So Deep Records, which was subsidiary of MCA, but it was based out of South Carolina I was just talking about all of this and how all the great things I'm going to do in the future. And I remember my cousin aunt came in the kitchen and goes, you know, you shouldn't set your goals so high because when you do and you don't achieve them, you're going to be disappointed. And I remember looking at her and saying, that's the stupidest shit I ever heard in my motherfucking life. That is the dumbest advice I ever heard because to me, she was basically telling me fuck your dreams in a negative way. You know what I'm saying? I'm not telling you to fuck your dreams. What I'm telling you is, fuck your dreams when they're not your dreams. Like you got to make sure this is what you want to do. You got to make sure that this is what is going to make you happy when you wake up every day for the rest of your life. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, right. You got to pay attention because otherwise you're just thinking, I think the one way to tell for me was when I became an attorney was like, am I looking forward to the day to day of being a lawyer or am I looking forward to being able to tell people I'm a lawyer, have expensive shit. That was how I knew it wasn't for me because I was like, I don't care about the job at all. Anything that got me to those other steps would be great. Now doing what I do now, I care much more about doing what we're doing right now than I do like, what kind of car could I get? Because I got money now. I don't care about that stuff as much. I love the day to day of radio. I am a radio guy through and through. I am a radio personality. I care about the culture of radio. Like this is something that I would listen to radio when I was a kid and then after I finished listening to radio and got actually involved in radio as an intern, I knew from the first day I was in there as an intern, I love this and I love every aspect of it. See that's the other thing. That's why I have another chapter in my book called Put the Weed in the Back and putting the weed in the back is just about respecting the process. You know what I'm saying? I don't know, if you've ever seen the movie Belly, great movie, you should have won an Oscar. You know DMX and Nas are sitting at the table and it's these two young kids sitting by them and the two young kids are helping them back up the weed. And so the two young kids are like, yo, fuck school. I want to go out there and get money with y'all. And DMX is like, man, shut the fuck up and put the weed in the bag first. So he's basically saying that it's a process, it's steps to going out there and hitting the streets and getting the money. First, you got to back up. So you got to enjoy that process. I enjoyed the process of even becoming a radio personality. I used to be an intern. Then I worked in the promotion department. I drove the station vehicles. I used to put the signage up for the radio stations at different remotes. I did part-time. Then I did full-time. Then I had to go back to doing part-time at different stations. I worked for free for a year and a half with Wendy Williams. I was like, I just enjoy radios that much. You know what I'm saying? If you don't enjoy whatever it is you're getting involved in that much where you know you would love the process of becoming whatever it is that you're trying to become, don't get involved. Yeah, you wrote about that. Put the weed in the bag first. There's no cheat codes. You got to embrace the process and you've got to focus on the work in front of you. And I think a lot of people get caught up looking at the results instead of the process like I did with law, for example. And I think now especially, a lot of people don't think they're going anywhere until the check comes. Right? They're like, well, this is all BS. Putting in my time is all, I'm just going to mail it in. I'm going to sleepwalk through it because then when I start getting a check, then I'm going to care. It doesn't work like that. Dumbest logic in the world. If you got to wait until you get a check to care, you really don't care. And that's why I always tell these kids, man, a lot of them don't recognize opportunity unless it's a paycheck attached to it. I worked for Wendy Williams for a year and a half for free. The reason I worked for Wendy Williams for a year and a half for free is because previously I was doing radio at Hot1039 in Columbia Stock & Line. I was there for like three, four years. That was one of the greatest radio experiences I've ever had is because that's where, like Columbia was one of those hubs where mad artists used to come through all the time. Like everybody came through Columbia. And that's how I got my interview skills up because I'd be interviewing these guys. Same exact way. Probably worse back then because I was younger and a little more wild, a little more reckless. I was a little naive to the game too. So when you're naive to the game, you believe all the world-starred hip-hop conspiracy theories and all the bullshit that you see about these artists. So you kind of have that chip on your shoulder and these artists walk in the room and you're already on them. Like you fake motherfucker. I know you sold, just sold and getting this position. You devil worship. But like my mind was really on that type of shit. So I would treat them as such. But when I was working at Hot1039, the reason I was only making like $7, $8 an hour there, but Wendy was syndicated there. So being that she was syndicated on that station, she used to come down to the market. And me and my guys would just show her mad love. So I got on her radar like that, her and her husband's radar. And when they invited me to come to this party one time in New York, I went up to the party and in the party she asked me to come on her shoulder the next day. And I came on the shoulder the next day and she offered me a job that night. Her husband did. Her husband offered me the job that night. Her husband was like, yo, we can't pay you, but we can give you a place to stay. And I was all for it. Because number one, I was on six days a week in Columbia, but I was making like $7, $8 an hour. And I had got demoted to one day a week because I got sued by this club in Columbia, so I could lie in there. The club sued me because there was always this rumor that this guy was putting date rape drug in girls' drinks but nobody could ever prove it. So one time the girl got raped. I mean, one time the girl got raped and actually went to the authority so they came and arrested this guy. So I took the link to that and put it up on my MySpace page and it was like, yo, we need to be aware of what's going on in this club that we frequent because there's always been these rumors and now you have some confirmation. So these guys sued me, man, and the radio station settled for like $2,000. And they took me from six days a week to one day a week. So I would have took that opportunity even if I was on in Columbia six days a week just because that's Wendy Williams and it's New York City, the number one radio market. I want to test my radio chops here. You know what I'm saying? Like if you make it here in radio, you make it. So it's just like, I took that gig because I recognized the opportunity even though it wasn't a paycheck attached to it. It's unbelievable having that kind of influence outside the check. I'll remember when I first found out that you were existing because I'm not a hip hop guy generally. I look at my downloads every single day and three or four years ago, I look at my downloads and I see this spike and I'm like, what happened yesterday? And I even tweeted out, what happened yesterday? I got a huge spike in downloads and somebody was like, oh, Charlotte May and the God said something about art of charm on, I don't know, what was it, like Z100 or something like that? Or what station were you going for? I'm on Power 105 here in New York. Yeah, that must have been great. But we're nationally syndicated, so who knows? Who knows? Yeah. And I remember people being like, what? Oh, nice mention. And I thought, that's incredible. So that's when I started looking at that and I thought, that's worth more than money. It's worth more than money. Absolutely. And that's why you can't take it for granted. And that's why that goes back to the whole fuck your dreams thing. When you're doing what you're supposed to do, right? When you're doing what it is the universe wants you to do. When I talk about finding that gift under the tree that can change your life and change other people's lives around you, when you're doing what it is you're supposed to be doing, you're going to have that kind of impact, period. You don't have to just be ready. It could be any, like it could be a doctor. Like if a guy that was destined to be a doctor, you're going to save lives. You understand what I'm saying? Like you're going to make that kind of impact. Like the reason I feel like I have this success that I do is because thank God I found what it is I'm supposed to be doing. You know what I'm saying? So it just makes sense. It's not a square peg in a round hole at all. Yes, exactly. And you stayed open to new ideas, mentors from Wendy Williams and things like that. How do you stay open when so many people can't? It seems like once we turn 30 or 25 or 35, whatever, we just kind of wall off and we're like, I know everything now. I don't need anybody telling me what to do. I know that you get people, Sam Roberts was telling me this, people go, how do I get in the radio business? And then he starts talking and they're like, what? And their eyes glaze over and they start looking up at the sky or at their phone. You got to get that all the time. Yeah. I mean, listen, man, as soon as you feel like you know everything, the clock starts ticking. You know what I'm saying? You're about to have an expiration date. Like I am growing every day. I'm evolving. I'm getting older. Like I'm not into this. I'm not into 90% of what's going on out here in this hip hop culture. You know what I'm saying? Especially when it comes to the young artists. Like I'm not in tune with the younger artists the way I probably was 10 years ago. So that's why you keep young people around you. I'd be like, yo, so what's up with this person? What's up with that person? Who's hot out here? Blah, blah, blah. And guess what? I listen to some of the stuff that's hot out here right now and it's just not for me. Yeah. It's not my thing. And I'm fine with that. You know why I'm fine with that? Because you have Jay-Z still dropping music. You have guys that are my age, are closer to my age, the two chains, the Rick Rosses. Like there's something out here for everybody. And that's what keeps me going. It keeps me motivated. And in fact, I'm not afraid to express that. I'm growing with my listeners every day. You know what I'm saying? Like people can remember Charlamagne when he was on Windy Wind. Some people remember me when I was in South Carolina. Now they can look online and see stupid shit like Charlamagne the God net worth, 10 million dollars. Yeah. Which isn't true. You know what I mean? Well, maybe it is. I don't even know what the net worth is, to be honest with you. But like, I know what my liquid is. Yeah, it's not 10 million. No, I'm doing okay though. I'm doing, you know what I mean? But the point of that is they see the growth. They see the evolution. They see New York Times bestselling author. They see me executive producing all of these various TV shows and having all these TV shows and being on shows like The View and Dr. Arthur. Like they see me growing. They see me evolving. I'm not afraid to have that journey with the listeners. And I'm not trying to... First of all, I can't front for them. Because they've seen it. They've seen how the food was made, so to speak. You know what I mean? Like they've seen me literally come up. I grew up in the age of transparency. I grew up in front of people. Like literally, like they've seen my physical changes. Like, oh, Charlamagne, man, you getting buff. Charlamagne, what you doing to your skin? You bleaching? They've seen all of that. So I can't front for them in no way shape or form. So I'm not afraid to have that journey. I'm not afraid to be honest. I'm not afraid to grow. I'm not afraid to evolve. And I feel like that will keep me around as long as I want to be around. You forced yourself to believe that you have privilege being black. You can create your own opportunities. This is your words in the book. What do you do in your face with contradictory evidence, like discrimination or institutionalized discrimination? Or just people being assholes and throwing that stuff in front of your face. How can you rationalize the belief that you have privilege with the evidence of the contrary? Well, the belief that I have is that it is a privilege to be black, you know? So black privilege is a play on words. I feel like it's a privilege to be black. I feel like, you know, even with everything you just said, like I feel like with everything you just said, I still wouldn't want to be anything else. Like if I had to come back and do it all over again, knowing exactly what I know now, I would still choose to come back and be a black man. Because I just feel like we're that great, you know? I mean, I'm going to be totally honest with you. I think it's a good thing to love the skin that you're in, to love what you are. And that goes for anybody. I know people here that title black privilege, like, oh, that's a book about black stuff. No, it's a book about human stuff. Number one is a privilege to be alive. You know, when your father is having sex with your mother and he busted off that nut, it's like 400 sperm cells. And one sperm cell gets to the ovary or the egg and created you. So it is a privilege to breathe. It is a privilege to be a human being. You could have been a cockroach. You know what I'm saying? But you're a human being. So it's a privilege to be alive. Now, what are you? You're a woman. You're a white man. You're an Asian man. Whatever, whatever it is you are, embrace it. You know what I'm saying? Tell God, thank you for making me that. But you know, when it just comes to my blackness, I do truly feel like we are a divine people. And I'm saying that everybody else isn't divine, but you know, I just feel like, you know, when you're talking about black privilege, you're talking about something divine. I feel like we tap into a system that helps us to thrive and survive in this country in spite of everything that's been thrown at us. Yeah, you have the in spite of unlock in the book as well. What was the quote? It was like, shit is the best fertilizer. Shit is the best fertilizer, baby. What does that mean to you? It means that, you know, like I said earlier, when you come from the hood or you come from the project, you come from the gutter, you come from the ghetto, you come from these shit areas. The reason such great things grow from these places is because if you don't choose to be reduced by your circumstances, you will be larger than life. Because the only, like I love Marvel. I'm a Marvel head. I love Marvel comic books. If you remember the last Avengers movie, Ant-Man could turn to Giant-Man. So when you feel like you're, when you let your circumstances reduce you, you're Ant-Man. When you say no, I'm not going to be held back by my circumstances. I'm going to transcend my circumstances. I don't believe in these limitations. I'm going to get up out of this situation. You become Giant-Man. That's just the only way to think. That's the only way to get up out of your circumstances. So, you know, I feel like that shit that we are constantly, that we constantly have thrown on us is what makes us grow and what makes us evolve. Like that is the black existence. The reason that it's such a big deal when you see first black anything. You know what I mean? It don't matter what it is. Yeah. President, Grammy winner in this category, Oscar winner in this category, whatever it is. Doctor, it's always such a big deal because America knows the conditions we came from. America knows, you know, they know its history. They know what black people have been through in this country. So, being that they know that, they got to salute and acknowledge it whenever we do reach a certain height or reach a certain level. What's the first step in this process? To give a little context, one of the tips that you give, tips is sort of a light word. But one of the principles you give is, look, stop complaining about the geographical space and where you're at physically. Start focusing on your mental space and where your head is at. What's the first step in that type of process for you? Love, love of thyself. Realizing that your first, last and best love is self-love. You know, realizing that you kind of control, you know, not kind of, you do control your own destiny in a way. Like, you know, we all know the circumstances that we're, that we've been born into. But it is different ways that you can transcend those circumstances. But you got, first of all, you got to believe that you can do it. That's why I say love because believing that you can do it is basically saying that you're worthy of more. You know what I'm saying? If you don't love yourself, you're not going to feel like you're worthy of more. You know what I mean? If you don't believe in yourself, you're not going to feel like you're worthy of more. So, I feel like you have to love yourself first and foremost. Once you love yourself, you will believe in yourself and believe in your abilities to be better. You know? So, the first step I believe is love. Like, your first last and best love is always going to be self-love. How did you start that process? Because when you were younger and you were like drinking in school, obviously you didn't love yourself. You're trying to conform to the expectations of other people. Do you remember when that shift happened? Yeah, absolutely. Because I think about where my mindset was prior to that. And my mindset prior to, you know, when I made the transition to being a fake thug, was I didn't have any expectations for myself except for success. Like, I just... I'm going to be successful doing something. Like, you know, I didn't know what it was going to be. Like, you know, the typical stuff when you're young, firefighter, police officer. Sure. Shit. I remember, you know, looking at my uncle Henry, he was a UPS driver. God bless the dead. I remember thinking that was a fly gig, you know? And then Biggie was like, yo, UPS is hiring. But when you actually go look at the UPS shit, UPS popping. Like, the benefits for UPS and everything, you can make a good living being a UPS man. So all of that was constantly on my mind. Like, I just knew I was going to be successful doing something. I didn't start feeling like I was going to lose in life until I made the wrong choices. And that's what I always say, destiny's not about a chance, it's about a choice. When I started making poor choices and I was living a lifestyle that I know wasn't beneficial to me being successful. Like, when I made the choice to sell crack, when I made the choice to start carrying guns, when I made the choice to start drinking, man, I made the choice to start smoking, when I made the choice to start hanging around the wrong crowd. Like, I knew that anything bad that happened to me in that moment of my life, I caused it. You understand what I'm saying? And so it's like, I remember reading a book called From Niggas to Gods and it talked about destiny and making the right choices and how everything you do in your life today directly impacts what happens in your life tomorrow. And that just resonated with me so crazy. Like, and then it was two quotes. It was that, you know, everything that happens in your day, everything that happens in your life today affects what happens in your life tomorrow and smart people learn from their own mistakes, wise people learn from the mistakes of others. Because I had those two things in my head, plus my father telling me, you're going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree. So when I actually started seeing that around me, not just happening to me, what happened to people around me, I'm like, are you smart or are you wise? Because if you're smart, you know, you're going to learn from your own mistakes. If you're wise, you're going to learn from the mistakes of others. I don't know what it is, I don't know what it's called when you learn from both, but I learned from both. Yeah, yeah, this reminds me of something else that I'm pretty sure I got from your book as well, from Black Privilege. It was something like, and I might, I might have to look this up, but it was something like never stunt your own growth by dismissing something because it doesn't fit your own. It doesn't feel familiar to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, a lot of people who can't, a lot of people won't accept new things based off what they believe, based off how they grew up, based off what their present circumstances are. Like, you know, I'm a stern believer. When you learn new things, when you acquire new information, you may have to change your mind. That's just the way the world works, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm not going to sit around and argue with you about something. And then when you present me with the facts of the matter, and I look at the facts of the matter, and I'm like, oh, you're right. I'm just going to be like, oh, you're right. And I'm going to learn from that. And then I'm going to change my mind about whatever it is I thought I knew, based off the new information that's presented. So I don't, I don't ever want to stump my growth by ignoring things that aren't familiar to me because that goes into my hole to know what all knows. Right, it's actually ego somehow. Absolutely, like you, I don't give a fuck. You can learn something from a crackhead. If you listen, a crackhead can tell you exactly what not to do. Right, exactly. You know what I'm saying? A crackhead can tell you what moves you should not make to avoid, what moves you should make to avoid being like him. So you can listen to anybody if you're, you can learn from anybody if you're willing to listen. How do you catch yourself doing this? How do you catch yourself dismissing something that doesn't fit your experience? How do you know what's a trigger in your head that goes, man, I don't like that. Wait a minute. I shouldn't say that right now. I know I'm just doing that because I want to be right. That's exactly what it is. Is it? Like it's like, you know, human beings, we hate being wrong. Yeah, it sucks. Even when you know you're doing it, it sucks being wrong. But you got to ask yourself, do you want to be happy or do you want to be right? You can be happy and wrong. You know what I'm saying? Like, and you could be not happy and think you're right. We've all been in arguments with people and, you know, we know we're not right. But we continue to argue, continue to argue. Next thing you know, you're maybe name calling and calling somebody stupid when actually you're the stupid one because you're just not willing to accept the fact that this person is right. You know what I'm saying? Like it's perfectly fine to acknowledge that somebody else is right. That's why I approach everything with a blank slate. You know what I'm saying? I don't go into any situation, you know, thinking I know it all. I'm an empty cup and I'm always willing to learn. Like, and I'm always willing to share information. And if I share some information and somebody goes, that's actually not right. You know, like you're in the ballpark, but this is really actually what it is. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Thank you for getting me on the right path. Thank you for giving me the right information. I'm guessing you don't have the same friends now that you had when you were growing up. And you probably had to cut some people out of your life throughout growing up, throughout showbiz, and in radio. And obviously in the book, in Black Privilege, you also talk about not even hanging out with the same kids as before because they were getting you in trouble. When and why do you get rid of friends? Like, do you have a test for this? Do you have a formula for this? Yeah, I don't know if it's a test, but I think you either get rid of friends or the universe gets rid of friends for you. You know, I got like me and Waxman. Waxman with me for like 15 years. You know, I got cousins that I'm really close to. You know what I mean? I'm like my homeboy Frosty. Like I met Frosty when I was in Columbia, South Carolina. We've been, I've been knowing Frosty for over a decade. Like that's my, that's my friend, friend to the end. You know? But yeah, a lot of people have felt by the wayside. You know, like my man, Jarell, gone neck. God bless the dead, resting in peace. You know, he got, he got killed. So that was like a close friend of mine. No matter what, you know, no matter what was going on in my life, what my circumstances were at the time. Like we was always real good friends. But yeah, like either, either you get rid of friends or the universe gets rid of friends for you. A lot of people aren't growing the way you, you're growing. A lot of people aren't evolving the way that you're evolving. You don't have nothing in common with people anymore. Like people are still doing things that aren't conducive to the lifestyle that you're living now. Some people are just negative. You know, they've let, they've let life beat them up. And no matter how much you tell them that, yo, you can change your circumstances too or things can get better. They're looking at you like, oh, shut the fuck up. You just said that because you quote on quote made it, whatever, whatever, like, you know, which I never truly believe. I still don't feel like I made it. You know, I don't, I won't feel like I made it until like, I know my kids, kids are good. And I don't know if that's going to be financial or just leaving them something that I know that they can learn from two generations from now. Who knows? But yeah, you just, you just, it just happens. Like I can't, I can't explain it. Like it's really, it's really something that just happens. Like there's nobody in my life. Oh no, there's definitely people in my life where I say I'm not fucking with them no more. Yeah, you mentioned the types, you monitor kind of the types of conversations you're getting in with these people. What are you looking for in those conversations? Conversations that can help both of us grow. Conversations that can help both of us evolve. You know, in the book, I tell a story about how I had, I had just started doing radio and I had a couple of friends who, you know, had, had caught a, well, I caught the rape charge because of something that they did. And it's just like, yo, I'm asking them over and over, did they touch this young lady? And they're like, no, no. And I'm like, you sure? If you tell me the truth, then I know what I'm facing, then I know what I'm up against. But if you're telling me that it didn't happen, and I'm saying it didn't happen, and the police are saying, well, we did a rape kid on her and something happened, then somebody's lying. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, yo, don't lie. If you don't lie, then at least I know what I already got arrested, bro. It's not like I'm gonna go to the jail and say, oh, they did it. You know what I mean? I just need to know what I'm facing, what's going on. And so it's just like, yo, people like that, I had to cut off. You know what I mean? Man. Like people like that, I had to cut off. Like, I just, it's a wrap. Like we're not growing in the same way. We're not evolving in the same way. I just started doing radio. I could possibly lose my whole radio career based off, you know, you guys bullshitting and fucking around and lying and doing things. Y'all ain't got no business doing. You've got a great piece, and we'll wrap with this because I know we've been in the studio for a long time. Helping others, if someone offers to help you, don't beat around the bush. Tell them exactly what you want and take them up on their offer. And that's one of the smartest things that anyone can do, in my opinion. Absolutely. I do it all the time. Like I'm never, TLC had that song, Ain't Too Proud to Beg. I don't know if you want to call that begging, but if you say something to me, I'm gonna hold you to it. And you know, that's honestly how I've gotten a lot of things done. I remember the first time I ever met Wendy Williams, I was trying to give her a mixtape, so I'm trying to give her a parody song. And she told me, she was in Columbia, so I can lie in a howl-a-do-nice studio. She told me to get the fuck out of her face with that mixtape bullshit and take that mixtape bullshit to her husband. I didn't, wasn't discouraged. I listened. I ain't, where's your husband? You know what I mean? He's like, he's in that room over there. Okay, boom. Went and took it to her husband, you know what I'm saying? And her husband gave me her number and we communicated. When I met Wendy again, she told me to come on her show. She was in a party. She was drunk, but no, that's verbal. You told me to come on your show. Hey, uh, Kev, which is her husband, they, Wendy told me to come on our show today. Like, what's up? And I called a lot to make sure that happened. I remember meeting Swiss Beats, you know, and I talk about that in the book. Swiss is a giver. And I remember him saying to me, you know, if there's anything I can help you with, let me know. Well, you don't say Swiss. I just put out this compilation album of rappers from South Carolina. I'm really trying to get one of these guys signed. What's up? And, you know, I gave him the CD. And he, I remember him emailing me back saying, he liked this guy named Little Rue's Tone. And then he was like, yo, bring him to me. You know what I'm saying? Bring him to me. I'm gonna do a song with him. I'm gonna take you wherever you want to go. That's just the type of person Swiss is. But I had to call a lot to make that happen. That's a great offer. That's an amazing offer. But I had to call a lot. Yo, what's up? Little Rue's up here. Hey, hey, yo, Swiss, Rue's up here. And then finally, Swiss like, he'll come to the studio. It took maybe a week. Or you know what I'm saying? That's not even that long, man. Some of the stuff could take two years. But it was from the time he told me that they finally get Little Rue up here and then get him into the probably, the probably was a three week process. You know what I'm saying? But it got done. So all I'm simply saying is when somebody tells you, offers you some help, don't beat around the bush. Tell them exactly what it is you want. And be persistent on getting that. Because I'm a man of my word, you know? So if I give you my word and I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it. And the only way I'm gonna really get it done is if you hold me accountable for it, hold me to it. I think some people are afraid to help others because they're afraid it's gonna blow up in their face. Shit, I'm afraid not to help others because I feel like it's gonna blow up in my face. And what I mean by that is, I don't want to be that guy that misses that next big media personality. Because I was too into my own shit, or not willing to help others because when that person blows up, I'm gonna be sitting there looking at them like, that might be the person that takes me out. Do you know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? Like that might be the person who has a grudge against me because I fronted on them back in the day. So now they're shitting on me and making me look less cool. I would rather be the person who helps that next guy up, or helps that next girl up, or helps that next guy or girl get in position. That's why I big people up so much. People like to always say I'm hating on people and coming at people. I like to celebrate. You know what I'm saying? I like to big people up. When they dope, I like to say they dope. When I'm a fan of what they're doing, I like to say I'm a fan of what they're doing. When I love what they're doing, I like to say it. I love to retweet people. I love to see people have success. Like people that I've been watching for years and knowing like, yo, they got talent. And then if you finally see it pay off, like right now, like Tiffany Hattish is like somebody who I just think is so dope. I think she's super funny. She's smart. She's talented. Like that inspires me. Because I remember doing VH1 talking head shows with her 10 years ago and thinking damn, she's funny. You know what I'm saying? But just watching her grow and evolve. And now she's got the movie coming out with Queen Latif and Jada Pickett Smith, Girls Trip. And I'm reading in Variety. They're like, yo, she's the star of the movie. She stole the movie. Like that's dope to me because that's confirmation that I was right. She was dope. But I like my guys Deezus and Meryl. Like I remember Deezus and Meryl was just sitting in the offices at MTV and they couldn't figure out what to do with him. Like let's put them on uncommon sense. You know what I mean? Like that was my show. And knowing these guys are funny and just good dudes. And now watching them like blow up with their TV show on vice. Like shit like that is dope to me. Like I love that. You know what I mean? I love that part of the game. So I just want to be responsible for as much of that as possible. I love that. That's like the art of charm value scale that we actually talked about on Brilliant Idiots earlier. That cooperative mindset. Bring other people up as much as possible. And you're never too big to help the next person out. It don't hurt you to help. It never hurts you. And the bigger you are, it's easier. Do you know what I mean? Like it's easier to help people out. Like the least I can do is bring somebody on the breakfast club and help raise their profile or bring them on the podcast. I accept that offer. Yeah. Absolutely. Man, thank you so much. This is, there's so much here we could go on for another hour but I would just love to have you back at some point then. I'm just happy that we finally got it done, Jordan. It's something we've been talking about for a few years now. It only took a couple years. Oh my God. But hey, timing is perfect. It is perfect. I got a book out, Black Privilege Opportunity comes to those who created it. It was on the New York Times Best Sellers just for like eight weeks. It's people like it, eight principle. I love the book. I love the book. I'm not just saying that because you're here. The reason that this show could go on for two more hours is because I took notes like crazy on that book. And my, our boy Ryan Holiday liked the book too. Oh, that's my guy, man. Salute to Ryan. Ryan is another one who I've developed a great relationship with Ryan based off the fact I read Eagle was the enemy. I didn't know who Ryan was. Eagle was the enemy who was recommended to me by my boy Dennis Clark. I don't say my boy because he's a grown man but he's my radio consultant at iHeartMedia. He was like, you should really read this book. Not because I think you got an ego. I just think that you could really benefit from the things in this book. So I read the book and I just thought the book was great so much so that I recommended it to a lot of people and I just posted about it one day. And then Ryan, how small the universe is. It used to be six degrees separation. I was like, one, Ryan sent me a tweet and Ryan was like, yo, you was one of my favorite guests on the last word with Bill Simmons or last Wednesday with Bill Simmons, whatever Bill Simmons show was called. That's how I know he really must know who I am. There wasn't nobody watching Bill Simmons show. That's my guy with nobody watching Bill's show. And so I was like, damn, it's a small world. Ryan was one of those people, I just started devouring his work. Obstacle of the way, trust me, I'm lying. I got his new galley now that I'm about to start reading. The perennial seller is what that's called. The new one, right? Yeah. Yeah, I got it, but I haven't read it yet. So I bought him on the breakfast club because that's just somebody I think my audience would like. Like, yo, I know we hip hop station, but no, we like information too. This is somebody that would be dope. So just to bring it all around, he's one of those people that are just me bigging up his book. Like, I didn't get paid for that. Like, I just, it's a dope book. I think y'all would like this. This would help other people. And we've got a great friendship now because of that. Yeah, he's a great guy. He also helps other people out a lot. And it's no coincidence that people at the top of any game are always helping each other out and always bringing up new people because they don't see it as a threat. They see it as an addition to the pie. It just makes you bigger at the end of the day. Like, at the end of the day, it's one little thing that really makes you live forever. You know what I mean? Like, I want later on in life people to look at the Charlemagne to God family tree. That's what I want there. Seriously. And I want them to say, yeah, I remember when this person was on this show with Charlemagne, that person was on that show with Charlemagne. Yeah, then this person bought Charlemagne over here. And like, I want them to see that. I want them to be like, oh, this is dope because I love seeing talent. Like, I know I'm just name dropping up. But somebody like Zuri Hall who's on E! News. Like, Zuri just always was super dope to me, super smart, super talented. She was at MTV. I wanted her to be my co-host on Uncommon Sense. You know what I mean? And she did a couple of episodes, but then she got the job with E! But she's shining. She's flourishing. I love being able to say, told y'all she was a motherfucking star, man. Like, it's just dope. I got a new show coming on MTV now called Trollin'. It's Catfish Trolls. So it's a spin-off of Catfish. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, we're going around all those little cartoon avis and people hiding behind, you know, file cabinets, just profile pics that be talking mad shit to you. Like, we're going to get those people. Like, and the guy who's my co-host, his name is Raymond Braun. Raymond is a star. You know what I'm saying? Raymond is a member of the LGBT community. Young, white kid. He's super smart, funny in his own way. And I just think America's going to love him. It's going to be fun to watch Trolls get theirs, though. Exactly. Because, you know, I'm on these trolls' ass, like your piece of shit. And I'm even sometimes relating to them because I'm a troll myself at times. Raymond is being Raymond and trying to talk his way through these people. And he's learning a lot about the world because there's certain people that I know from my world. And I'm like, Raymond, there's no getting through to this person, but you're going to learn this the hard way. So, but he's a star. So it's just fun to work with new people and bring new people along on this amazing journey that we're on. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you want to make sure you deliver? I mean, I don't know. You read the book. So it's just like... I did. There's so much more that I have, but now's a good time to leave him wanting more, man. Yeah, I'm with it. So, yeah, we can do a part two of this later, man. But Black Privilege Opportunity, come to those who create it, is available wherever you buy books now. And Jordan, thank you for having me. Thank you, man. Yes, sir.