 So call me to order, is there any public comment for items not on the agenda? Yes. We'd like to. Does that mean we have to go first then, or is that, or do you guys like to be like this? No, we always allow public comment at the beginning of the meeting, so go right ahead. So I have one. Introduce yourself. It's Conn. OK, my name is Tristan Coyle. I'm from East Calis, actually. So Maxi Gray Road. Tristan, you said? Tristan Joy, yeah. So I've been in Calis, my whole life. And so, I'm going to give you guys, try to be more of a hand, like, what is it? Six of you, the select board, like five of you, five of you, OK, actually, we're going to see what it's got. Yeah, she's on her way. She comes from work, sometimes she gets delayed. All right, sure. I can do that for you. Sure. So there's, so I'll just take that one out. So that's from GOBT, Gun Owners of Vermont. That's a resolution for the, what, you don't know who's overrun the community, you know, they're doing a second thing, and it's an actually various thing. I'm, like, thinking about what we're doing down in Virginia, but it's not a, it has nothing to do, like, with law. It's what I'm just going to say, it's kind of like a non-binary thing or something, you know, like, it's only for, like, saying which channels are programmed, you know, let's not meet them, like, it's going to go, like, and do anything law, but, right. So is this on behalf of some organization? Yeah, so, well, Gun Owners, it's Gun Owners of Vermont, so it's like, it's a Facebook, it's like a Facebook thing, is what we are pretty much right now, but we're trying to get bigger, let's just say, and then so, so I have a sales pitch here, would you be okay if I read that to you guys? Tristan, before you do that, can you just make sure I got your name right, because we'll get it, that's it, that's it, right? Okay, thank you. So if you guys don't mind, really quick, would you mind if I read that to you guys? Oh, go ahead. So we people of Vermont have taken notice, and this is, like, Gun Owners, all Gun Owners of Vermont, speaking, we, the people of Vermont, have taken notice through the recent growing hostility among our lawmakers towards our inalienable right to self-defense. This is evidence in their attempts to pass legislation, eroding our right to keep in their arms in defense of ourselves and stay as protected by Article 16 of the Vermont Constitution, and the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution. So despite our objections and overwhelming evidence of the contrary, law-abiding gun owners continue to be blamed for hermits acts of violence, which continue to plague our country in to a much less extent our state. So we live in peace, as all good people do yet continue to draw the attention of lawmakers attempting to fix the problem by targeting good people. So while there is no doubt, or while there is no doubt that our society does in fact seem to have a problem with violence, which we all do, criminalizing peaceful people for owning a tool to protect their families or themselves, in a good way, we will solve their problems and do nothing except pray more criminals, more felons, inalienable right to self-defense does not come from man's laws. These rights pre-exist all governments and our prior international rights as persons under God. The founders of this country in the state of Vermont understood that the importance of arms in the hands of the common man is not only a hedge against invasion, but as a deterrent to tyranny and oppression from our own government. Civilian, no firearms, save countless more lives every year than they take. So often the murder presence of a gun serves as a turn to violence in the hands of our weakest and most vulnerable. We acknowledge the value of Vermont's pre-internet law, commonly known as Dylan's Rule, and we wish to be forthright in our mission. This resolution is no way legally binding, but a fairly symbolic measure meant to give a voice to people of Vermont who feel that they are not being heard by their legislators. So it's not regularly binding. It is for these reasons that we ask in order to adopt this resolution in the kindest way possible. We ask you that, we don't, we're going in a civil way or not, don't worry, we're not gonna lie. You don't lie to you or anything. That's good. We appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, our civil, of our civil disobedience and those who would attempt to render us as defenselessly. We ask you in the kindest way, please, that you pass this resolution in defense of our rights today. So, and me, I'm asking you guys if you could like put this on the warning, if you guys would like consider putting this on the warning. In the town meeting room. Yeah, yeah, for town meeting room. I don't know what the deadline is, do you have that? I think the deadline, I looked on the town calendar, it wasn't like tonight or something, was the deadline to have it? Right, but we've already finished the town report. You can always come to town meeting and then propose it. And bring it up from the floor under new business. So you're not asking us to sign this resolution? Well, I am asking you guys to sign it, but because there's so, you said the other person that was supposed to come that's on the slide. Yeah, she's right there. Oh, she's right there, so. She's right there. All right, cool. So we wouldn't have to. Because then there's five of us. I think she takes notes for us. Do you know us? Do you want us to introduce ourselves? Sure, would you mind introducing yourself? Sure, but I'm going to use Wheeler. Yep. Jeffrey back. Sharon Winfam. I'm Rose Pell Chuck. And then just meet you guys. Yeah, tell me your name, please. Tristan Joy. You look familiar. I think I've seen you somewhere. In Dallas. Yeah, probably in Dallas. There's one of your list of people out there, you know. Yeah. So, you're going to go to our desk. So the way the process works in order for us to sign this, I would have to put it on the select board's next agenda because you have to warn in items. Okay. Before we can act on it. Right. Correct. And we have it. It's something that the townspeople would probably resolution like this. Right. He's asking us to sign this, though, too. Would you, I mean, would you guys, could you, probably, would you just send a possible link to that? Would you do that? I just put it on the select board's next agenda. Next agenda. Like I said, the best thing really to do is it's not going to be more meaningful if you brought a town meeting and it was voted on by the people in attendance at town meeting up or down. Sure. So that would be my suggestion. And as he ended up town meeting, there's always an opportunity for a new business. And this is where you can bring that up. Sure. Right. I like that idea. And let me say something about bringing it here for a vote. There's only five of us. We haven't had a lot of discussion. And you're the first person we've heard from, Tristan, about it. And I really, I think I really respect you for bringing this. This is a hard topic. Right, it's a hard topic. It's very hard. And I know you guys all agree. So I mean, I agree with you about these or something. Right. So, but let me finish my thought. You wouldn't want us to bring it all the way to vote and have it as a vote, you know. And so my thought is it's premature for us to put it on our meeting agenda and actually have a vote because we haven't heard from a lot of people. It's a really difficult subject. And you don't want to know. I like the idea of it coming up for discussion at town meeting where lots of people are there and can hear you. And I mean, your heartfelt words and you're so respectful. I think that's powerful. And I think you would probably do better bringing up that town meeting than asking us to vote on it to sign it as well. The good thing about town meeting, like for instance, I agree with some aspects of this. I've owned guns. And I don't want to be gun used to the point where you're taking them away from people. You use them roughly to hunt and that kind of stuff. But I don't agree with some of the broad contentions in here. So at town meeting, you might propose this and then it could get amended on the floor where it gets narrowed to a different sub theme of this and that everyone can accept in. And that might be the callus because it's shot on use of guns. And that might get you a lot more support because it'll be in the town meeting minutes that the town's folks, the residents, the voters acted on this and this is what they said and it might go a lot further than just having us yay or nay at based on what you've got here. And we've never talked about this kind of issue. I appreciate your coming and bringing it to us. I want a lot of respect for what you've done and your willingness to step forward. So come to town meeting and bring your friends because we also need young people to come and tell you beyond this. Do you have a calendar? Tristan, you know what I'm doing? I have the calendar. I go on the town, I go on the stuff. So you know what it is. So bring this, bring, and I advise you to bring extra copies to hand out. And we can let the moderator, we'll let the moderator know that this issue is going to come up at the end of town meeting. We can let him know ahead of time. And you can touch it with Gus Selig, I think for somebody who's bringing something to have a conversation is helpful too. Right, so that would actually be your best bet. And you'll get a lot more input and a lot, you know, somebody might have another really good idea to change or add or something. So we'll expect to see you at town meeting. Congratulations Tristan. First Tuesday of March. Stepping into the political process. Yeah, there you go. For you. You wanted to say something? I did, I have a quick question. Do you think it would be helpful if what Tristan read was printed on the back of that? Yeah. Actually yes, because that's a sales pitch that they will hand in the news board. Right, don't forget, you can also put your cause out there ahead of time and post something out from Port Form. But this is a resolution that you're going to bring to town meeting. It'll probably generate you a lot of emails one way or the other, but it will give you some heads up about what people are thinking and what answers you might need to have at town meeting to what they're saying. Right. So that would be another suggestion is to put something out there on Port Form. Sure. That's a good idea. Thank you very much. Thanks Tristan. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Come back anytime. Yeah, come back and see us again. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Take care, thank you. Nice to meet you. Tristan, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, thanks for coming. Thank you, thank you. Take care. Yeah. Okay. Good night everyone. See you. Good night. All right, so are there additions or changes to the agenda? Or is there any other public comment on the agenda? Okay. Toby, you're up. Let's go over the agenda items there. You were going to go and meet with staff at First Student to talk about the radio contact and all that. How was your visit with, and when did you go? I went this morning. Timing, make sure we were on time. Right. And met with the manager, Lynette, who manages the First Student Garage in this area. And we discussed. The First Student is a bus company. Correct, it's a bus company, correct. And discussed, you know, communication. If there's a bus that has an issue on Callis-Rhodes, how do we let the town highway crew know about it so they can assist? My thought was they could use their radio system to talk to us, but it turns out that they have upgraded their radio system to a digital system, which is much more powerful, but our radios can't talk to their radio. So that eliminates that link. Did you come up with a different solution? Well, I talked with Lynette about, you know, her avenues. And one of them is to talk to Roger Hill. They can call Roger Hill on the phone and Roger Hill can talk to us on the radio. So if there's a bus out there that has reported a problem, they can call Roger Hill. Roger can reach out to the town trucks and say, hey, there's a bus on Lightning Ridge that needs assistance. So the bus driver would contact first student and first student would contact Roger and then Roger would contact our crew. The other option is the town clerk, but she's not here until eight o'clock, so most of those buses have already gone by. Right, yeah, they're on the bus. So that's not, that's not me. So just so I'm clear on this, you're saying Roger Hill will be an intermediary beyond weather issues. He could be. I mean, I think they've used him in the past. Well, I think it's, but it is weather related. Well, anyways, again, that's really the only radio contact that they have a relationship with that can talk. The other thing I suggested to him and it occurred to me while I was talking to her is that they can reach Guthrie and East Montpelier on the cell phone because there's good cell phone coverage in East Montpelier and they have done that. So they could actually call Guthrie and he has our radio channel. He could call us as well. Now, do we know that Guthrie's willing to do that? Oh, I'm sure he is. If not, I'll make him willing. Okay. So that's the, so those are the two avenues that we can get. And again, it came from an instance where we came in after plowing and there was a message on the garage phone. Hey, there's a bus stuck and it's like, well, luckily Paul had driven by the stuck bus and it was no longer a problem, but if the town crew needs to assist a bus, the phone is not the answer. That's what I wanted to point out to the bus company. And did you run into any bus drivers while you were there? Yeah, it just happened to me while I was sitting there, the guys, some guys who actually run the Calis bus routes had been sitting there checking out after their routes and I told them who I was and they said, hey, your roads are great. So the bus, the roads are great. Calis roads are in great shape. Okay. But, so for bus drivers, they're very, they're okay with what they see on our roads. That's really good to hear. That's good to hear. All right. Anything else on your visit there? Nope. Buses are yellow still. Is that gonna change? And we don't know, and you didn't happen to notice if the school buses have water tires all the way around. I did not. Can you give us an update on the status of the truck repairs? Yeah, so one truck has a coolant leak, one of the 10 wheelers that Bruce drives and that's been in the shop for almost a week. They've been struggling to fix it. It's a warranty issue, so it's not gonna cost us money. It just means that we've been down a truck for a couple of snow events. The other truck has a leak on that. Is that one of the other 10 wheelers? No, the other truck is the one ton truck that does the county road and the salting. Oh, okay. So it's the magic salt truck. It is, it's the salt truck. And it has a leak on the transfer case and we're waiting for a part on that. So both trucks are up at J and B, international culture. Do they have to get towed up there by a minute of that? We could drive them up there. Both are new trucks. Well, no, the Western Star is a 2016 and the other one's a 2019. That's still all the time we've been in 2016 for on those road trips. Right, but it's just a leak. I mean, we beat them up pretty hard. Just so the folks know that we're not running old reggae trucks. No, these are fairly new trucks. And actually the 2009, which we're falling back on is still running like an Energizer bunny. Pre-death, too loud. Right, pre-death, pre-death crap. Otherwise, how's the crew holding up enough help? Yeah, well, like I say, because we had two trucks down, we only had three guys on the route today because we only had three trucks. So they had long days, two storms with very long days. Oh, no, that is three, okay. Yep, only three trucks. So they had to share part of each other's routes and took them longer, but they're working on it. Long days. Luckily it's only a one event. It's three in the morning till 10 or 11. That day it's not a continuing storm where they have to come back and plow again. So it's only been one event where they're only down three trucks. And, oh, I just had a question for you. And they're coming in, you're listening to the weather reports, the weather advisories, and Roger Hill and Underground Weather or whatever weather you can find, and you're lining the crew up to come in like the day before, knowing, anticipating an event so that we're hopefully well prepared. Yep, yeah. And the only issue that arises is if the weather forecast says it's gonna be great and all of a sudden it changes and that storm comes in three hours earlier, we're gonna be three hours behind. So that's the only drawback to it is that there may be times when the weather forecast is not as predictable. I can't lie back. You know, and I'm bringing them in on the side of caution. So if there's only a chance of flurries or light rain or whatever, I'll bring them in. So that we're prepared. A couple of times I have looked at the weather forecast less than a half an inch of accumulation and it turned out to be an inch and a half or two and we were late, so I'm not gonna do that anymore. Very good. Thank you. Anybody else have any questions? Yes. It's very helpful, Toby, for you to put something like you did on the crew. That was so helpful, I want you to read that and see that there's a problem. Right. Patient. Yep. Very good idea. Thank you. That was a good idea, Toby. Yeah, thank you. Communication. All right, thank you. Thanks, Toby. Thanks, Toby. Thank you. Okay, conservation commission, you're, we're gonna get all the time and all about ML-Dashmore update and some opportunities for the, maybe the road crew to go to some trains about tree cutting. Yeah, we'll talk about that together. So, thinking out. Does everybody know? Does everybody know, everybody? I do. I don't know about that. I just have an example. I'm the chair of the conservation commission. We're six out of seven here. Yeah, that's good. I'm a help maker. Also a tree warden. Okay. And? True land. Assistant tree warden. All right. Larry Bush. Mark Brown. Julie Hand. Hi. Okay, so. Do you need us? Conservation commission members. I prepared kind of a briefing, but please jump in anytime. I just tried to organize things a little bit. Yeah. I mean, we're a little behind schedule, so. Yeah. Tell me to stop any time? Yeah. So, I guess for a very brief review about ML-Dashmore, Calis, I don't think has yet, it's not yet been discovered in Calis, but it's all around us. Probably here, you can't see it. Right. So, it takes a little while for it to manifest itself by killing the trees. So, we are considered in what they call a critical area, something like that. So, we have to prepare. We have to assume that ML-Dashmore is going to be here and it's going to kill most of the trees. And the trees die from what I understand. They, it takes them maybe a couple of years to die once they've been infested. The beetles or the larvae go under the bark and somehow the damage they do prevents the water from coming up to feed the tree. So, it dries out and apparently it dries out fairly quickly, which is what makes it dangerous because we've been hearing, I've been hearing, you know, as trees are particularly dangerous once they're dying because it's not predictable what will happen, branches will fall off. You don't know, I mean, you can't just climb it like you might normally climb a tree to limit because it's unpredictable and also ash split easily anyway. So, it becomes a really dangerous situation. So, we've been working for the last few years with this, you know, the Scrooge the Urban Community Forestry Program, Joanne Garten is the person we've been having a contact with. And they have a website that's just got my information and they've been really helpful. And last year we got a grant, we got a $2,000 grant and we used maybe 1,000 of it, you know, we did all those publications last year and sent them around to everybody. And so then, so we're working on a management plan and the first part of the management plan is to do an inventory of the ash trees. So, there was this little app, people were trained and started last spring and went around and really the trees were classified as either hazardous or non-hazardous, it wasn't too much subtlety in between that. And hazard trees, the trees that, as I understood it, were either leaning into the road or over a building or even utility lines, I guess, although the utility company was kind of closed. Yeah, it's just anything that would be a problem if it went and closed down. And these trees weren't necessarily dead yet. No, no, they sure are. I don't find those ones that, if they died, this would happen. They're going to die when they do or they're gonna fall in the road. So the latest is that, you know, there might be 0.1% of the ash trees that won't succumb. We have to assume they're all gonna die, we're hoping that they don't all die. That's why homeowners, people with forests, encourage to keep at least the smaller ones in order to keep some of them might live and then we might have some ash trees. So it turned out, and then after we did the inventory, after people did the inventory, the Regional Planning Commission mapped it all, all the information they put on the map, they put it on the map so we could see, and apparently 66 miles of callous roads were found to have ash trees and there were a total of 3,297. Well, that's pretty concise, we will. Just in the right way. Yeah, just in the right way. There's not on people's side of the road, right? 66%, did you say? 66 miles of roads. 66 miles of roads, 297 ash trees. And that doesn't include any of the paved roads. I don't think, we didn't decadent it. We did County Road, not one. Okay, and you're 14, I don't think we need it. Right, because County Road, we have some say over what gets cut, really the trans would, we don't over root 14. Right, root 14. Right, so what was interesting was, apparently there were no, in non or minimal amount, on the east side of the road. Well, there are definitely trees over there. Ash trees. Ash trees, on the east side of the road. Just not as many along the roads. Not as many along the roads. East side is. East Canada. East Canada. East of 14. Okay. Like Lightning Ridge, that area. No, Lightning Ridge is this side. Yeah. The Hummer side is that. Max Gray. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. To Luce Road, Tucker's. But there wasn't as many ash trees there. Not interesting. Well, you know, I went around, I went around to one of the cemeteries with Randy. And you know, there were no ash trees? There were maples. I was so happy, there were maples. There weren't ash trees that were hiding all the beautiful shade around the cemeteries for the most part. So anyway, we are now in the process of developing a management plan. So we have this information. We have that information. We wanted to talk with you and we wanted to, at some point we'll have the public meeting, I believe, to solicit public input. But we've been talking about this a lot. And you know, there's not a lot of choice about what to do. There's essentially three options. And these were kind of laid out by everybody. I mean, there's really just three options. And one of them they call pre-emptive management. And that is that you remove them all. Remove all the ash trees before they're in the right way. In the right way. Yeah, we're only talking about public right-of-way. Right. And if possible or appropriate, replace some of them with different tree species. That means that none of them, the public roadways wouldn't have any ash trees now. And who knows where all that money would come from. Yeah. Right. So the positive thing is, is that you don't have to then deal with dead ones because they're already cut. If they're cut now, you don't have to deal with them when they're dead. Right. But it's kind of a horrifying thought. The kind of rule of thumb is that once they're infested, it costs twice as much to cut them down. So if you have a dangerous ash tree, it's a lot more expensive to do that. Right. If you have to have a professional come in and... And a lot of the professionals, even the way they would normally cut it, they don't want to do, they don't want to climb a tree that the branches are going to break unpretentiously. Right. And they're going to do bucket trucks. And then what can they do with it if they know it's infested? What can they do with it? Right. I mean, does it change what their options are just what to do with them? Not really. Kind of our options are already restricted because it could be here even if we don't see it because it's ash. But you can still burn it for firewood. Yeah. As long as you're not moving it to a bar. Although we've learned, I was going to just say about telling you now, we met with an arborist, Nate Ebert, who has in the last few years moved, he lives in a Cobra Road, did they do? Mm-hmm. And Nate is from Minnesota, or he lived in Minnesota where there was emerald ash borer infestation. So he's had a bunch of experience with it. And we met him within that last meeting. And one of the things he said is that if you've got trees that are not leaning into the road, he would say don't, they're not going to fall on the road. Right. So they're not going to cause a hazard. So you don't have to cut them. That's one thing he said. Another thing he said, if they are leaning into the road, you can, somebody who knows what he's doing can cut them so they fall into the road. And then you cut them up on the road. You close the road, you cut them up. So it's not totally as dire and hideous as I made it sound. Mm-hmm. Because there are some of these other things that can be done that would, you know, make it a little bit not so horrible. And there is another option too. There were a number of dead trees south of our property. Actually on Gale Graham's property. And they were, you know, dropping ones and stuff. And so I just took my tractor and I took the bucket and I pushed them to slowly lean away from the road. So when they fell, they'd fall. And it did take me that long when up and down both sides of the road. So I mean, that's the town, highway crew doesn't necessarily have to cut the trees down unless it's a monster where you're not gonna do that. We're gonna talk about that. They could possibly push them to lean the other way. Do we know what percentage of the ash trees are considered hazard out of all of them? Yeah, so something like 1,600 are hazards. As of 3,200 are leaning toward the road and our responsibility are, so that, you know, some of them are in the utility right of ways and that's kind of their problem. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I think there are 16. So we would care about the ones that we're gonna like fall on the road. Right, basically. Those are clearly a higher priority than the other 1,400 that are not gonna fall on the road or whatever. Do we know if the utility companies are? They're taking care of it. They are, okay. Yeah, they are, they have their own plans down. So there are other negative things about cutting them all down now, other than economic. I mean, you can imagine to go around all of a sudden the roads don't have any ash trees or when they comprise that much of the roadside canopies. And also, it's been mentioned that there could be developed and effective control. There could be, I mean, right now, apparently there are insecticides that trees can be treated. Montpelier is treating some trees. I think East Montpelier is treating some trees. They're trees that they feel are important. East Montpelier calls them historic trees. I think there's about 10 of them that they identified in East Montpelier. But in our inventory, we ask people when they did the inventory is to know if there's like some kind of special tree that stands out and apparently there weren't any. Oh, okay. Now we may revisit that. You know, I mean, I know of one. I talked to, it's on Jan Bruss property. I told her about it the other day as being perhaps an important tree. One advantage, one benefit. That's on her property. On her property. But it's right on the, oh, sorry. It's right in the right of way. Oh. But it's her property. But it's not right of way. No, it's right on the right of way. But another benefit to having at least a few trees in your community that you save is that you'll then have a few ash trees. If they survive. They'll then have maybe ash trees, we hope. So that it wouldn't completely wipe out all the ash in your community. We found out that the costs vary to treat a tree. Apparently, what they do is they put a port in it. And then they have to be treated every other year for the whole rest of the life of the tree. As long as you want that tree there. I heard it was expensive. What are we saying about the cost of it? Is it $2 an inch? Yeah, it ends up being a few hundred bucks a tree. Or a bigger tree every two years, forever. Yeah, but you know, Montpelier turns out it has a lot of street ash trees. Didn't it? And yeah, they're very concerned about losing them. So they're gonna be treating some. They're gonna be replanting. They already have a replanting plan. So that's, but I think our recommendation would not be to go down and cut every ash tree. Right, right. That's what we would, what we talked about. And then that was the first possibility management that another management is, I guess I just said, is to treat insecticides. And then the other one is reactive management. Where you remove the trees as you need to. Or you go out and identify now, what are the really most hazardous? We're not gonna go out and, you know, don't have the means to go cut 1500 trees or 1,000 trees. But, you know, we can do a more close identification of, you know, because as I said, you know, it was pretty, we didn't have a lot of nuances on that app. So if it was a, if it was leaning in the road, it was a hazard sheet, but maybe it's leaning on the road that nobody ever travels on. You know, there may be other, you know, more specific criteria that can be done to go look at them and decide which one's really should be taken down sooner or later, and that's, and then just sort of let them, you know, and the other thing that Nate pointed out is that it's leaning away from the road. You know, it's, and it's not, there's not a building there. It probably never will create a hazard. It will fall, the branches will fall. And then just to go now. We want to hope it's not in the road if it's really leaning away. And we thought we saw a bunch of those. I mean, there were a bunch, like below a bank, you know, still in the right of way, but below a bank and maybe in front of a field you know, so that all those ash trees are not necessarily have to be cut. So, we're working on this now and sort of what we came up with was what I just said, you know, there aren't a lot of choices. And, but one of the things somebody mentioned that somebody from the road committee who was Alfred had said, well, we can cut some of the trees. Now, that's what I'm going to tell you to be, it would definitely be the most cost effective thing. But there's two issues. One is availability and one is capability. So I don't know either. I have no answer for either. I don't know what their availability would be. I don't know what their capability is. But just kind of preemptively, I talked to Joanne Garten from the tree program and said, do you know of any training programs for road crews? And she sent me to David Burtsel who was in Middletown Springs who runs these programs called Game of Logging. Game of Logging. Yeah, and he and his group, his program, they train road crews. It's one of the things they train road crews. I have it in this special technique they've learned from some guy named Soren Erickson in the most safest way to take a tree down. And it's like a three day training group. Do they come right here doing it? Well, yeah, it would, you know, it's a little complicated, but, you know, they'll take up to 10 people at once. They do their training programs, like plus something like $1,250 a day. But what you do is you'd be the host, somebody's the host, and then you can invite other people to come and then you can charge them. I mean, he said some organization is always making money by sponsoring it and then charging more than their pay. I understand you we could go in it, on it maybe with like Ease-Mot Pills, or something like that. Yeah, exactly. But what, I wanted someone to tell me, because I haven't, and I really don't know. Did any of the crew ever go through this program? I don't know that they have, but, you know, Alfie certainly has had a lot of experience in his life, kind of taking the roadside trees. Which is far more valuable than doing a three day game of logging. I mean, there's no way in three days of instruction, not that it's not valuable, but you can't become a logger in three days and this just, you just can't do it. Yeah, but what they're doing is they're teaching basic safety techniques. I appreciate that. That's really what it is. I mean, what is the choice to have them just gone? Well, I mean, the choices that the road, I don't know, that they would only be able to take down stuff that was within their capability, but the limits of what they feel like they've learned. And I wonder if, I think we would have to double check with our insurance. Well, it's interesting what this guy told me, Bursal. He said he also runs a program for loggers, this is called Leap. And he said, if they go through this existing loggers, if they go through this program, their workers' comp costs go down 15% on a regular basis because, you know, a worker's comp is a huge burden on loggers. It's huge. But this is such a good safety program that even workers' comp is recognized as less likely to be. And it's not just specifically about cutting ashes, just cutting trees in general. Cindy Gardner, more sponsored in one of these on their property just like two or three years ago. Oh, did she? It was last year. Oh, it was last year. Got it. Cindy Gardner. Oh, really? Yeah. So, if we get something that we can definitely check into. So, and Alfie's experience is that he knows that some big trees he's just not capable of when we hire Joe. Joe Bang. Joe Bang. Yeah. And that happens quite often, but really large trees. He does have a bucket truck. Right. He climbs up like a monkey in business. He doesn't have a bucket of trees like a mongrel. No, but it's alive. It's alive. Before we do the preemptive ones. I mean, it would be worth, if the road crew were to take it on, this isn't something that happens this winter. It's like, this is a several year project. So, assuming there's some kind of turnover in the road crew over that time, it might be really valuable to think about trying to bring somebody on that has equipment experience but also logging experience. It's, you know, you go when you shut down a half mile section of road and for a day or whatever it is, and you know, somebody that can fill trees can bring down. You have the other crew that's chipping and cutting limbs and bring down. You could do 50 trees in a day. I mean, take those most hazardous trees in a section. So, over time, a single person that was very experienced could take care of the, you know, 500 of the 1500 that you've identified as being large, hazardous, definitely coming in the road. You wanna take them down when they're alive. So, I have a question. So, I wanna just back up, Drew, to what you said about game of logging not being a substitute for logging experience. And I wanna make sure that we understand you clearly. I'm guessing, but I'm looking for your yes or no. I'm guessing you're not saying that a safety class is a bad idea. In fact, this is what I would say. If the guys are going to be cutting trees with a chainsaw, it's a good idea. But we shouldn't put too much reliance on that as the training. On the other hand, don't have them running chainsaws, cutting down trees without some safety. Am I hearing? That's what I'm saying. I mean, I just feel like if this is a project, if in the end the select board decides that this is something that the road crew is really gonna take on, and they're gonna do all this cutting, you know, many hundreds of trees that somebody, that a game of logging weekend is maybe falls a little short of what they might need. But Alfie comes back and he does that, and maybe that's it. Well, and the other thing is that you have to understand that even with the crew of four, we have a hard time staying up the road. Yeah, that's really important. So the availability of time to take on this additional project, you know, there may be some time in the fall when the roads are not done or dirt work, there may be windows of opportunity there, but, you know, Alfie's in there in spring and right into summer dirt season. So there's really probably only a month or two a year that they could commit to that kind of, that may be more than enough, you know. I have two questions. I have two, I have a question and a thought. Setting the crew to a training, it might be really good for them, for their, not self-esteem, but the value that they can bring back to the town with what they learn. It's an investment to send somebody to a training like that. It's an investment and they might feel really good that we would take the time and the money to send them to that training, just sending them from a personnel kind of outlook. Second, how long would it take maybe to just go and identify the hundred or the 50 most hazard prone trees? How long would it take to do that? So we would have an idea of how much crew time it was gonna take to remove these hundred trees. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's like the first step, that's right. I mean, I don't think it would take that long. That would be an important question to answer before. So we take it in our math and driving around. Right, so you guys could go and do that. You could identify them with a big orange X that we hopefully would flag. Right, yeah, we get a lot of phone calls when people put orange X's on trees. That might be the first start. We don't know if we can have the crew do it time wise because we don't know how many. So a first step might be how many. So we can talk with Toby and Alfred about what time is there available to do this? My instinct is that it's gonna be, that it's not gonna be clear like, these are the 50, we're good, but that it's kind of more like, yeah, we can find priorities, but eight inch tree that's leaning over the road is not gonna be a priority, but it's still a hazard, still really hurt me if it fell on you. So there's kind of gradients, you know? Right, because that might help us determine whether or not the crew really has time to do it. The other not, and if they're not dead, then it's no different than cutting any other tree that they do on the roadside in normal maintenance, right? Because it's not hazard yet, because it's not dead and we're gonna pull apart. Well, actually, there's an interesting question because as you know, the way the statute works, as far as taking trees down, if they're hazard trees, then they can be taken down, but if they are not hazard trees, there has to be a public hearing. If they are ornamental tree trees. Wait a minute, wait a minute. It's not been interpreted differently by different towns. And the way this town has interpreted, as well as other towns, is that public trees are all shade trees, because they hasn't been defined and we don't have an ordinance. And that's what the case law says, a few towns have lost cases in the courts because they say that in the courts. Right, so what we could identify. Let me finish what I'm just saying. So that we understand, we've been told that, I believe, that unless it's actually infested, the tree can't be considered a hazard tree. So what East Montalier is doing. Even the Ash trees? Even Ash trees, unless they're infested. So what East Montalier is doing right now is they identified, you may have seen if you go up to U32, they identified a row of Ash trees along Gallison Hill Road and they've tagged them. They've been tagged for a while and they want the public to see them. And then they're going to be taking them down. They had a hearing, they had to have a public hearing and they had the hearing and nobody objected, but they had a hearing. They notified the adjoiners. They followed that process and they had their hearing. So why wouldn't we do the same thing? Well, we would have to do the same thing. We can do it, we can identify those 50 trees and have one hearing. Right, we can do the whole thing in number one hearing. Ready to go for the next two years or something. That would make sense to me to do that. The other thing is that there's some towns anticipating having to spend a lot of money over a period of time are starting to set up funds. So they're putting a certain amount of money away each year. Is there any grants available for one to do this? Is there any grants available to do the save these five trees and we're going to put ports in them and give them the medicine? Is there any grants right now? I don't know if we know of right now. Exactly, not that we know of. There is that $15,000 grant on the right side. Yeah, there was a grant that you had to match. Yeah, it was a $15,000 matching grant. We decided not to pursue it. East Montpelier was pursuing like three of them or something statewide. So, you know, and who knows? I mean, there may be grants in the future, but right now there's no grants to treat trees or cut them down. So what do you want from the board tonight? Just kind of to give us an update, get our feedback, come up with a proposal. Can you guys come up with a proposal and you know. Well, it was helpful to learn the availability, which is not high, right, as possible for some of the year. I mean, maybe we're meeting on February 5th because I wonder if you could come up with, like I said, the hundred, maybe hazard, well, maybe not even hazard trees, but the hundred trees that need to be cut as the first priority, you know, and if they're not, like I said, they're not dead, but then we have to have a hearing and maybe there's a list of the hazard trees that could just be cut and how many of them are there and where are they coming from. I'm just thinking out loud, I don't know, yeah. Just be necessary to have them done. Just wondering if, you know, somebody flags lots of ash trees in front of my driveway. That's gonna maybe wonder what else is going on. I mean, before we. Well, you heard what they're doing. They're doing it. And they're contacting the neighbors. Yeah, but they're doing it. I just mean that we're gonna be doing it. We're doing it, the hazard trees, which are all much more scattered. We're gonna have all this flagging around all these trees all over town. If it repeats itself, there'll be a firestorm if you start marking trees. That's important, yeah. They have to contact them, but. They have to contact you. They have to contact the landowners. Not to cut them. I mean just to flag them. I think we can just. They still contact you. They would still, we would still contact the landowner. We would. We would, yeah, or whoever's doing this. I mean, Larry and Julie and Neil, you've been doing the flagging trees. We haven't flagged them yet. I know, but you have a plan. You have a plan. Yeah, but that's not what I'm talking about there. You're talking about flagging it for like public. Yeah. I'm talking about going on and identifying. No, I understand what you're saying. I'm saying those would be. Yeah, but when we do that, we're not gonna know which landowners have the hazard trees till we actually go out and mark them. We're gonna wanna flag them when we identify them right at that moment. I'm just wondering whether or not we wanna somehow get the word out that maybe we have the public, can it make sense to have a public hearing before we do that? Yeah. Oh yeah, before you start going around and flagging stuff, but I can't be coming up with a plan. But can't you be coming up with a plan how to do this project, have the public informational meeting, do some postings on front porch forum, that kind of stuff. I wanna imagine that if there's a public hearing process around taking down hazardous trees or non-hazardous trees, whatever it is. Well, they're hazardous. They're hazardous, but they're not hazardous. Yeah, it's two different meanings of hazard. Either way, if there's a hearing process set out in statute or for the regulations pursuant to statute, I would expect that it says that people have to know which trees you're talking about. So yes, I don't know this for sure. It would make sense to me. You know what I'm saying? So yes, people know you're gonna be out flagging trees if they see a flag on a tree on their property because Drew's right, who's gonna wanna send them a note, go back, try to find that tree again. But that would all be before the actual public hearing about taking the tree down. I don't think you could do a public hearing saying, over the next six months, we're gonna be flagging trees and then take them down. If you're worried, you might flag one of your trees, come and speak. I think that we're talking about a good public information meeting. Information, but not the actual hearing. Right, right, oh yeah, it's two separate things. The hearing is different than the public information meeting. Right. John? You know, we're talking about flagging. That's what we've historically done. But this is a special kind of project. We could come up with some paper signs. Maybe they're waterproof somehow. And rather than flag a tree, what does that mean? The sign up, and the sign is all the information. This tree has been marked for the following reasons. If this is your property, call this number, but we will be reaching out to property owners as well. And then come here. Kind of like a post. And so they know what, that's the flag. That's the identifier. And then there's information that goes along with it. That's the group. Maybe it's not, maybe we tied and ribbon around it, but there's like a little pendant that hangs down. It's a little index of hard sized information thing. So that, you know, I don't know. You feel almost like the trespassing or posting signs, right? They're working on something right now, not a slightly different thing. But what they're doing, and I'll let them explain it, the purpose is to bring up some more public awareness. So they've identified areas three on three well-traveled road encounters, and they're going to be good. Larry, you want to explain that to Neil or somebody? Yeah, Neil, do you want to? Sure. Yeah, we're just, we're ideas like East Montillier did to find sections of road where there are ash and flag them and put up signs. And not any intent to cut those trees, but just to like meet people aware of what's coming. Look at all these ash trees, it's gonna be a lot different because they're not gonna be here in five years. Probably want to wait till it's snowing. Enjoy them while they're left. And we sent out a letter to all the landowners. To each of the landowners, that's the letter there. Right. Yeah, each of the landowners has gotten a letter, so they know what's going on. And I think you're doing the same kind of thing. It's a piece of information in the tree. Yeah, I already told them. It just went out? Yeah, it went out. No, it's fine, I'm just, I got two pieces of mail from the town of Calis today and now I know why I didn't open them. Are you on that list? Must be. I don't think so. I don't think so, I don't know. I guess who that matters. It's a lot of nice ash trees on Takara road. But not a lot of traffic. Especially towards Lightning Ridge. So, yeah, it was one. I did that. There are three of your names. Okay. Lightning Ridge Road. I don't over mail. And Van Road to Pat Johnson's. Did I get one? That is. Yeah. I'm looking for it. North Calis road from just right up here to Duga Brook. And then West County road from just above where the nasal's property is. And she starts with Judy Copa and Harry Cooper. Down to, what is it, Neil? Down to North Curtis On Road. Is the maximum area. Really? We could, you know, it was just for demonstration purposes. So we don't have to do the whole thing. But we were looking for areas. Yeah. High traffic that had enough of a collection of ash trees that, you know, it would make an impact if you saw them with like green ribbons around them. Right. And we also, as I said in the email I sent to you guys. Yeah, and I forwarded it to them more. That we were trying to, we tried to find a place in East Calis on the other side of 14. But we looked and we looked and we looked. We couldn't find any place that had the kind of collection of ash trees, similar to the ones in the other three places we found. Wow. Yeah. And then finally, as I said, we still have some grant money left. We have to use it up by the end of March. So maybe we could use that. So we're supposed to. Oh, we were talking about that. And also planting, maybe doing a little planting. The planting trees doesn't have to be replaced as trees. What do we do? Planting in public places. Before the end of March. So money has to be used up before the end of March. Because I wonder. Three more trees. So we can't use that money to use it on a training. Yeah, we could do that, except that we have to do it by the end of March. And there's no way to get an extension. I think so. No, no, no, there's no extension on this grant. No. Oh. We have to use money. So, I don't know, I just have this idea because I was up at the easel tree farm this fall with Nico and he's got some chestnut trees up there. We bought some of those up there. You got chestnut trees? And I was thinking, wouldn't that be fabulous to have like a couple of chestnut trees out here or, you know, in some public places? So we're based on disease trees with another disease tree. Oh, I know. He's got some hybrids. He's got some hybrids that are healthy. So could we, so we could buy that. We could buy the trees in March. Yeah, yeah, that's the idea, is to buy the trees before the end of March. Yeah. But also, what I was talking to you a few weeks ago or last week about it, you were saying we should have more handouts at town meeting. Yeah, we should. Again. Yeah. So, you know, we'll have to use some money for printing costs. Again, we're not gonna send them out to everybody. Right, and it's a picture, you know, to show like, this is what the inside got. So the tree will look like when the borer takes over and why it kills it, you know. I didn't know it was because it didn't get water. I didn't know why it did, right? So in other areas of the country that have already experienced the infestation of the animal dash borer, have they seen these bugs jump tree species once they run out of that, we supply. Other ash trees. I can't remember. Other ash trees. Nothing. I think like, once they like a black ash and then they'll go to a different ash. I guess the worst are the brown and black. And then there's a small amount of resistance in the white and green, isn't that right? Yeah. But there were so many different kinds of ash trees. Essentially, 100% of the ash trees are gonna die. Virtually, okay. So they're not jumping to maples or hoax. So can they take some seedlings from a place that doesn't have this? This and put them in some vaults, some rio, so put them somewhere. Yeah, there's like the seeds are protected. The seed and there will still be ash. The seed hide out. 200 years or so. They have seed banks. Seed banks. Plus who knows what's going on on people's private property. Right, right. Don't be so. Don't be so. Yeah. Yeah. Don't be so. And also what Nate said is, he said, you know, you can chip them and you can move them once you chip them. He said, you know, he's suggesting having a community processing area with a chipper, you know, and people cut their ash or the, Well, why is chipping them? He said it kills, he said it kills the larva and the beetles. It cuts them into small enough pieces that the wood dries out and the beetles can't live in the wood anymore. Because they need that moisture. It doesn't necessarily kill the beetles, but they leave and then when you transport the chips, you know that there aren't beetles in that wood chip because it's just not a place to think about. How long do the chips have to sit before they leave? That's my question. I don't know. Because you know, I'm chipping that on my property, they run a tall tree right through it and then that truck's out of there heading to, I don't know, but the, you know, the state did all their regulatory stuff and put together guidelines and stuff. And they were, they said that that's fine. Like, yeah, chip plants all over the state and chips from their afferlites. They're chipping. A chipper is something that Arbor is too strongly recommended if the road crew were to tackle, you know, where we're probably going to get them. Yeah, wait, there's a warrant. I think there's going to be an item on the warrant. We've been talking about getting a check. Yeah, we're getting a check this year. We're doing it again. Okay. It's not a warning. It's not a warning. That's definitely thought of. Well, when that article comes up on the floor, I mean, this is an appropriate example of why it would be important to support the purchase. He described it and it makes sense that it would make that job immensely more efficient to have a chipper. Yeah, that's actually a really good point. If somebody would make a note when it comes up. Great. The Emerald Ashbor issue is a new one for to support the chipper. Yeah, I mean, what's a chipper cost? $15,000. No, no, not for an industrial. I'm looking at used ones that are like 25 to 30. Still, it would pay itself off fast and how much it costs to buy an arbor. I hate to cut this short, but we have CVRPC people waiting to come to us as well. Okay, well, what we'll do is two things. We'll come up with some, I guess, a proposal to give you. And then also, we have to develop another handout for town meeting, and these are all good ideas to have things to put in it. And another thing, it's not something you need, but it has to do with landowners and what can they do? They can sell their trees to lumber, to lumber yards. What can private landowners do with their land? Can you maybe just talk about that at your meeting? Yeah. Okay, yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you guys very much. Great information. Can you see them all appreciate your work. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for counting the trees. How many trees? 3,297. That's one of the ones we found. We didn't do it because of the road. We didn't do all the roads. There's four. I think there was not even an arm line. Now I need to do the maybe, just for the board. Yeah, we have this little app, this cute little app. Let's go. Okay. Thank you guys. Try it out. The best proposal is, are you man, are you coming out? What's it? Are you in the house? That's what happens with things, is you slam it in. Are you in the house? The props is unacceptably. Excuse me? No, I'm here. Hi. Hi. What are you training and what? Are you here for CBI BC? Well, I'm totally support CBI BC, but I was interested in the next item of the LCT, the dispatch app. Okay. Oh, okay. So it's not funny that you were gonna be dispensing? No, actually. No. You left me a message today. Are you in? Oh, I'm sorry. Are you in? Okay. I got your message in the house. She has to call you back. So, quick question. Will it be on the agenda still, are you still going to discuss them? It's sort of there as a reminder. Cause we were, we had some... What, it'd be good to hear from you. Yeah, so... Well, but I'm not at wins.com from Vermont, League of Cities and Townsville. No, you are. No, but that doesn't say anything about it. Do you want to fill for her and do that too? I mean, that's not, her name isn't on the agenda for anything. Okay. No, she might have been a drafter. She might have been. I don't really know who was the drafter, but so... I'll stay. Okay. So we want to hear from CBI BC. Does everybody... Grace is new. I am new. Hi everyone, I'm Grace. I'm a new planner at CBRPC. I started in November. Welcome. Thank you. I'm Denise Wheeler. Nice to meet you. Cliff Evans. Nice to meet you. Rose Pell Chuck. I'm Katie. I'm the operating secretary. Sharon Wins-Hannon. John Bray-Bannon. I'm your commissioner. Okay. Thank you. And everybody knows Bonnie too. Do they remember me? 14 discussion, but that's kind of in the back. No, we remember you. You guys do well. I'm not sure I... I don't think about that one. It's a meeting now. I don't think about that one. Okay. So this is the root for... I know this is not root for me. This is the root for... Hazard Mitigation Plan is a firming role and expires in July of 2020. Yes. So we got a gallon. Yes. And spring of 2018, Alice agreed to participate in a grant that we saw from FEMA to do the local Hazard Mitigation Plan. That grant was awarded. It is making... It finally made its way through the contracting process at FEMA and the state. And now we have a contract to begin. So we are on your doorstep, making sure you're still interested in updating your local Hazard Mitigation Plan. There are a lot of reasons to update that. I will tell you that the main ones communities do is that when there's a federally declared disaster, having a local Hazard Mitigation Plan is one of four things you can do to increase the amount of the state share of your disaster damages. I forget how much that was. I know I read it in something. It depends on where you are. If you have done none of those things, if you have not done all four, the state share is seven and a half. So Hazard Mitigation Plan, local emergency management plan, NFIP participation. Hazard regulations and road ordinances. And you have those. Do we have the flood one? You do. You guys have slept tight in regulations, right? It's in zoning. Yeah, it's in your zone. Okay. Yeah. So when you have all four of those, your state share can increase to 12 and a half percent. And then beyond that, if you adopt a River Corridor. River Corridor. Corridor. Yes. You can get, it'll move up to 17 and a half. Yeah, I know the planning commission is working on River Corridors. Right. Yeah. Okay. Several communities, and I did not check whether you were one, adopted interim. It's probably been five or seven years ago. There were nine central Vermont towns there too. It might have, but I don't remember. Okay. So when your local Hazard Mitigation Plan expires, you will drop down to the seven and a half percent of the state share. And who do, I mean, are you folks are the ones that are gonna develop the plan and present it? We will be, I describe it as, we will be your type this. We'll do all your background research writing. You are the decision makers. It's your plan. Right. So when we're talking about the grant and it says there's a match and the match can be money or in kind. Does your time count? My time doesn't, Grace's time doesn't because we're funded through the grant. Okay. If you, most communities do a planning team. So when the select board discusses this tonight, the 15 minutes you spend on it counts as match. Okay. When you, How much match do we have to have? $2,500 is what you committed to. Generally we found that that is doable for most communities. So when you're talking about the select board time, is that how much per hour? As volunteers, $20 per hour. Per person. Yes. Unless you'd like to charge the actual weight the town pays you for that. That I consider the volunteer to be. Zero or 0.5. Exactly. And I assume like the road crew would be involved in some of this so we can match. Yes. Toby's time and, And Toby's time is road crew can be actual costs. So if, meet and follow every state that. His weight is, if you document on town letterhead the, the actual wage rate, you can use that for his. That's not going to go far either, Toby. But you'd be surprised how quickly it adds up. It's $2,500 it adds up quick. Yeah. We tried to take it, look at what do communities generally average. Well we did okay the last time. Yeah. There was no issue. Who is the planning committee? I think, well that's what we have to decide. Okay. So we don't have, it's not like, Oh, it's this group or it's that. No we can, It's that one. Okay. What was I just going to say? No I can't right now. So just to understand that the existing five year plan, literally has covered everything that they're going to put in. There's not really any new wrinkles. The only new wrinkle is that, the requirements for the plan have not changed from female. What they'd like to see in the plan to meet those requirements is an ever changing. Strengthens every year. And you know what those are. So you can, and what do you do the record keeping of the in kind? We ask on the back of the memorandum of agreement, was this lovely form? You need to record when you did things. And then if you give us these sheets, we will do the full tally form. So like the select board, right when we have a meeting and we talk about this, we can make a note. Or when this committee, whoever they are meets, or when Toby does something on the room crew. Okay. Yeah I think in the past it's just been the road commissioner and the select board member and your people. Every town does it differently. In Washington they selected three people who serve in each in three different positions. So they have nine voices at the table in the form of three bodies. In Montpelier, obviously it'll be public works, planning department, it's a little more involved there. Right. And Grace brought tonight just a brief sheet. We jog people's memory about who you could invite, but it's also who's actually needs to be in a plan and who is more of a stakeholder that you either send the plan to for comments. For instance, some towns, if there's a project proposed near a private property, they sometimes choose to send the plan with a quick note to a property owner and say by the way we're proposing a property or a project next to you in case you have thoughts. Yeah. So. Yeah I think we would want to do a good job of communicating with people if it's gonna affect something on their property even if it's in the town's right of way. We want to make sure that people understand what's going on just like you heard about with the ash trees. Right. And that's actually an example of something that can be incorporated. If you've done an ash tree inventory, which Kallis has, that inventory can be incorporated at any management decisions you make because if you think about those ash trees unless you cut them all and I'm not advocating that once they're infested, they become more brittle. Folks probably told you that. Then that storm comes along and takes them all down. So the thing with emerald ash borer is you end up with much more debris. The tree that fell beforehand would come down and maybe broke. When an infested emerald ash borer tree comes down, it shatters into pieces. So the way the department talks about it, the department of forest parks in Iraq is that it used to be that when you took a tree down, 80% of the cost was cutting the tree down and 20% was to clean up above the debris. Once a tree is infested with emerald ash borer, that impression shifts. And what used to be 20% now becomes 80% of the cost because you've got so many pieces to pick up. So sometimes they're choosing to build that into their hazard mitigation plan and recognizing it as a house. That's a good idea. How about the trees that are cheaper to cut down? The trees, no, actually. But if we had a big storm and that was written into the plan for the cleanup, we might be able to get some reimbursement. I mean, debris cleanup is always, it's always eligible. Okay. We had a storm and we spent two days cleaning up and I think I got 9,000 dollars from the government. So if we had a big storm and it down a lot of ash trees that hadn't been identified as hazard but came down. Because there's no species independent of them. I guess I think there was some way to get some money to do this training. Right. Can you leave that? Yes. FEMA has not quite recognized it as a hazard yet. That's one of the reasons we're talking to towns about putting it in. The Department of Forest Parks and Rec and VEM have talked to FEMA and said, look, we can see this big bill coming. And FEMA said, that's great. But when you're talking about many of their grants, you have to show a record of repetitive damage. Your trees haven't come down yet. You can show debris damage but not specific to this issue. And so if you identify it as an opportunity to have it so that they're not paying for damage after the event but helping to fund things before it happens. I think you'll have to see an ash tree disaster and then realize that that's something they need to have a mitigation plan to take care of ahead of it the next time. I mean, they're always behind the disaster. Right. And so that's why we suggest you build it into your plan. The grant might not be there today. So you'll build that in? Mm-hmm. Are you? But yes. Yes. Our type is to build that. We have your type is to build that in. We'll fill that in. And then the other, we usually build that in under invasive species. So some communities have identified invasive species from an agricultural perspective. Chirvels, things like that. We're really big people now too. Mm-hmm. So you can, we're loaded with it. Yeah. Good for chirvel and wild parsnip. Yep. And we've got a whole big education on that. There we go. Peter Harvey should be on this committee. We're just gonna evacuate the whole bloody town and get out of here. Even to nature. Just light it on fire and walk away. It's like a failure. So does anybody else have any comments or questions? Mm-hmm. What do you need from us? First. Two first steps. We were hoping that if you had any comments on the MOA, we could talk about those tonight. If not, we're hoping you will choose to authorize someone to sign it. And then the second one is not necessarily for tonight, but we need a planning team to work with. Okay, that's something we can do at a future meeting. But what's the deadline? Your deadline is when your plan expires? I mean, it's the July 20th. I guess when will you have something to us to look at that we need this committee to review prior to the July 20th, and then the select board, I assume, has to sign off on the plan. So two things. We need a committee to work with to do our work. Right. So usually our next step, after we leave here, we're all good, you give us a planning team, is to meet with that planning team, kind of run through process steps, what they can do, what we can do to the extent possible. So we have developed, I'll call it a template for hazard mitigation plans. We know that FEMA will approve it in that form given the level of information that's in there. Grace will go off and research your disaster history, background data. But the planning team needs to do a number of things. And so we generally meet with them so they can start work and they can meet with adults. Okay. So tonight we need to sign the form. I'm one of the board members. Are you in favor of having this project? Our help with, their help with us with this. It's revising our hazard mitigation plan. And I looked at our old ones. Yeah, you probably didn't, I don't know what you've had before. We've started, when there's match involved, we've started doing some agreements with towns because a few towns have not met their match. And we're on the hook for that. So does this anticipate that we all sign or just sit one of the last signs? Just one of you. Okay, so. All right, I made the motion that we authorized Denise to approve the MOA with the Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission related to updating our local hazard mitigation plan. Is there a second? Second. Where is it? For the discussion, comments, questions. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, hearing none, motion carries. So, you will contribute $7,000 for our citizens. Yes. Our share is the $2,500, which is the in-cash or in-kind. Right. Yeah, I already asked you about that. We've met that criteria before. Mm-hmm. Through the planning process. Yes, through the planning process, you should be able to. Yeah. Okay. Assuming year. So $20 an hour per, $20 per volunteer. We're gonna put in 10 hours? Holy crap. That'll be like done in a minute. We're gonna tell us what you've done on past projects. You're right. I'm very paid. If you scroll to the next page. Scroll to the next page. It talks about what do you do. You form a planning team. Public engagement actions can be a number of things. Some towns use town meeting. Poster at town meeting. Tell us what you've experienced. We have some set things. Or your planning team could choose to do other things. Some kind of an outreach thing, like maybe a public informational meeting. It's not something that the towns people have to vote on. Right. So different types of engagement things that towns have used. Some towns have surveyed their residents and said, this is a list of hazards that affect us. Winter storm, wind storms, rain, flooding. Which of these do you think is most important for us? So we could do like a survey. You could do a survey. You can do a poster where people vote with rocks. You can, there's a few things that. We have materials we can send you. Okay. So that's what we talk to the planning team. So that's what you would talk to the planning team about how to make, get some public outreach. Right. There are a couple of places along with the plan that makes sense for public outreach. The other kinds of things is providing plans, studies, damage documentation, all those wonderful things that you know about that we don't. What does Calis have? When we talk to the planning team, what do you look for? Your town plan, any kind of road related documents? Did you guys participate in the, what was the one, Joanne Garden? Yeah, we did roadside. Yeah, we did that. You did that. So whether there was anything in there that needed to, that could be incorporated. So you could, so you would contact. You would tell us, these things exist. Right. You already know that one. And we take a look at that. Yeah. If there's anything that would make sense. And we're usually pretty on top of stuff. Okay. Ahead of the curb on things. Yes. The updating the text for the community profile, that text usually comes right out of your town plan. So usually one of the volunteers will pull that over. There is in the last plan, you had a plan of action. So one of the volunteers takes that and says, here's the status completed. No longer priority in your progress. And when there is an event, oftentimes I'll get a call from somebody at CVRP even on a Saturday afternoon. Did you, I mean, you guys are the best. I'm saying, did you experience any damage? Is that something that gets assessed by this hazard mitigation plan? I know it's the LEO, is it still LEOP? Is there a new? It's now LEMP. LEMP, yeah. For a couple of years. So what we do, what Grace will do is she will look up the disasters online. Hopefully that either affected Calis or at least affected Washington County if it was going to be why. But we'll also ask you what kind of documentation you have of past damages. Yeah, I mean, I think we have pretty good resources on that. Things like that. Is there anything that we've had to account for in your reimburse or ask for reimbursement? I think Alfred or Toby has kept it a list. Right, and even if it's not a female level event, if it's something that happened locally, only Calis got hit with. Like when the Adam and Dan broke. Like when the Adam and Dan broke, yes. Something like that. Some of those winds started going out a few years ago. Right, where there was like one section of town that got annihilated on my road. Right, and then the next one is an evaluation process for plan maintenance, which sounds very formal. Yeah, what does that mean? It just means how are you going to update it along the way or next time if you want to make changes. Does that mean you're going to have a select board meeting? Some community said once a year we're going to look at it and see if our list of projects changed. So again, pretty standard language we talked to you about what makes sense for Calis. And then they would also like to see this plan incorporated into other plans. So the next time you update the municipal plan, this plan has a lot of, sorry, town plan. You say town plan. Incorporated by reference. You can incorporate by reference, but you know how your town plan has a flood resilience section? Well guess what? This hazard mitigation plan talks about flooding. You want to make sure that the two speak to each other. Yeah, I mean one's always a little bit ahead of the other one. And then whole or required public hearing. FEMA doesn't actually require that anymore, but we leave that in there in case they change their mind. Okay. It just comes to the select board when you adopted that meeting. The select board meeting, public wants to come and ask questions and then look at the doc and meet each other. That's all we really have to do. So it's pretty simple. Right, by the time you get to adoption, it's already been to the select board once or twice. Right, right, so. Yeah, because I mean the select board will want to get updated from the status to make sure we need the deadline and meet the goals of this, especially the in kind. So when you talk about deadline, I'm guessing you mean your deadline of when your plan expires. Right. So the way we work this is it usually, most communities take a year to 18 months to update the plan. That's why we applied two years ago. We've been doing them in six months to a year. We've done them as fast as six weeks when towns are about to lose a FEMA grant. They have to keep their plan active. Hope to not do it in six weeks solely because we have to take somebody off all of the work to do that. So how are you gonna do? What we do here is we set up a schedule with your planning team for what seems realistic. Sometimes for the planning team, it takes them a little longer to do their pieces. And then what we do in this agreement is it also says if you have one of those disasters where you need this and your plan has expired, when FEMA, when the state puts in for disaster declaration, if we really think FEMA's gonna grant it, we kick into action even faster, then we do put things aside. So that when FEMA declares a disaster, you have 30 days to get your plan into the EM, not even adopted, just to Vermont Emergency Management. And so we do what we need at that point to get it into the EM so that you're qualified for those. Who is our contact person at CDRP for this project? Grace. Grace. Okay. That way you're watching with me. That's why she's with me, although I'm gonna have to talk to you. This is her first time on the MOU front. Oh. So. You'll be. But she's working with you guys and Montpelier. You're both in the same grant, but you're each providing your own match. East Montpelier and those guys don't know Montpelier. East Montpelier's plan got adopted last month. They are done. And so we're working right now with Moretown, Williamstown, and they're both just about to plan adoption another month. So how long do you think realistically it will take you to take us to do this? Do you think we'll meet the July deadline? Where we have February? Yeah. I think you might be able to, but it's not August, September. It really depends on how quickly. Right. And July comes and goes and we have a big storm and something happens. We make it happen. We make it, we do that 30 days. Hurry up and do it 30 days. Right, right? Right. And it is doable. And especially by the time we get to July. Right. Like I said, we've done it in six weeks before, but I understand that what that six weeks took from start to finish was. A dedicated employee to that project. Was a dedicated employee and on the town's behalf Woodbury was meeting every week. Their planning team was meeting every week to get it done. Okay. So I think we probably, when I'll put on a future, like maybe the next select board meeting to look at this list and come up with a team because we'll have to ask people if they're interested. Okay. And probably maybe like five people. Seems like a manageable amount of people when you're trying to schedule meetings and. Yeah. I mean, take a look at the list and say who from Calis really needs to be crafting it versus who might look at it after the fact. Because I can scan. Do you have this in something a version that you can send to me? Yeah. Yeah. So I can send it around to the board so I can think about who might be the people to serve on this. All right. Any other thoughts, comments, questions? Do you want me to sign that now? So did we now or send it to, oh yeah, we hold it on the option. All right. None of these. Yeah. And we'll send a back page for people to keep. We'll send that to you digitally as well. Yeah. So there's a motion on the table, but you all didn't. Yeah. We did vote on it. I thought we did. There's a motion. Oh. Oh, we've been. We've been going on. Sorry. I remember you said. Oh, I was in favor. No, I thought I did. Yeah, she did say it. I did say it. I just voted again. I was thinking the same thing as Kay. Just you, Kay. No, it must have been noisy. Yeah. I thought. You were seconded it. And Denny said further discussion and we said no. And I thought this was for this. No. It doesn't matter, it's all fine. Voted on twice. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Grace. Nice to meet you. Okay, did you sign one right now? Five, six people, 15 minutes. Oh yeah, we get to count this. Somebody's going to be the bookkeeper. Katie, the board noted that counting Toby sat through the whole thing. We had one, two, three, four, five, five volunteers. No, six. Well, Toby. Well, Toby's paid staff. But $20 an hour is probably good for, yeah. So how long did we talk about this? And now we're in a half. No. But at least. No cheating. I just can't count. I would say a half hour at 40 minutes. So that's Grace's first meet and greet with the panelists. Right. All right, I don't know everybody else. I need to stand up. Go ahead. I think we're, I think we're all right. So we want to talk about the calendar resolution. You can stand up and we'll talk. So join us. Okay, I'm sorry if you didn't have a chance to call you back. That's okay. It's been a crazy day, I understand. It was sort of last minute too because I saw this on the agenda on the report forum. Oh, are you leaving Dallas? I don't. Oh. You're right. I am. So I'm Ann Gilbert and I live in East Montpelier, but I work in Montpelier. I'm with Central Vermont New Directions Coalition. I've got it written down here before. Yeah, I've got it written down here to call you tomorrow. Oh, okay. Good. Oh, here I am. Good to see you. So New Directions is a Substance Use Prevention Coalition and we cover all of Washington County. And so I'm very interested in the discussions that Vermont Lagos cities and towns are having with individual towns because it's an opportunity for municipalities to really gain local control when it comes to the commercialization of cannabis, which is coming down the road. So I thought maybe somebody from the LCT would be here to talk about this with you or I just sort of wanted to know whether you've already started a discussion about this. We had this on the agenda several times and we did talk about it at one meeting and Katie can probably find the minutes and get them to you. And we decided we needed to think about it more. I wanted to make some changes to the resolution. I didn't necessarily agree totally with what the LCT put out. So that was our next step. One concern is that by the way it was written, we don't want it to kind of agreement that it should be legalized at all for retail, commercial sale. And so that was a concern that we amend the language to make that point clear. Okay. So yeah, so it's been, it's just taken a while but it's been on the agenda the last three meetings. I know they're talking about pushing it through this session. Well, so that's another reason why I'm here is because it just seems like it's on a fast track and it would be good for a lot of towns maybe to have the, just sign the resolution supporting what the Vermont Lagos Cities and Towns has already proposed. So is your Vermont coalition. Central Vermont New Directions. Are you in favor of the resolution? Given that it really supports public health and the current situation that we have right now and based on lessons learned from other states, we think that this is probably the best way to go right now. What is the resolution and say it shouldn't be legalized? You're saying if you do, we want to be able to regulate it. Right. And basically you give us the authority. Give you the authority and to be able to opt in as opposed to the way it's written right now which is okay, this is the way it's gonna be for everybody unless you get it together to then opt out. So the opt in, well to make a decision about what your town really wants to do. They can't come in and set up an establishment here unless we opt in to allow for it. Right, as opposed to. They would have to have a license to. No, but then, right, just listen to that. So instead of automatically having it in place throughout the whole state, Kallus would be saying, well no, that will not be the case until we actually decide to opt in. And I guess I'm not opting into what? To allow the sale in retail and retail sale in Kallus. Okay, but I thought there was legislation. The legislation's, well we don't know what it's gonna say but the concern is that they would just say it's legal for sale everywhere in Vermont. And then we're obligated to issue a license because it's like selling Coca-Cola or liquor or barbeque. Okay, I wasn't, I didn't have that. And we decide, we don't want to allow it, we want to be a dry tap at a first, this drug that we can do that. Okay, so okay, I get it now. I just wasn't clear on that background, you know, how it would work if we didn't do this. Well we don't know, and this is also to help them shape the legislation to make sure that that happens. It is, okay, right. And from what I've read today and just doing a little bit of fact finding, East Montpelier signed this recently in December. Stowe, Williston, Brattleboro, Richmond, Pittsford, Springfield, Topsom. So a lot of towns and cities have considered this and are going this route. Yeah, I saw it on East Montpelier, it's like we're agenda-worthy. Yeah, yeah. What did you roll at this college and what did you do? So I'm the director. Oh, good. This organization has been around for over 20 years. I've heard of it. You have, okay. And we used to have more federal grant funding, mostly state funding now. Right now there are 12 regions in the state of Vermont which have funding to really promote healthy communities and address substance use. And we know that the availability and the familiarity, the commercialization of alcohol, marijuana, tobacco and the decreased perception of harm are all what are driving our youth to have really high numbers of usage compared to the whole country. Our 18 to 25 year olds are at the top of the list in terms of marijuana and cocaine use. Cocaine's back. Yes. Hour of Vermont. Yes. That's the hour. So this would be one way to help support putting some guidelines in place and giving that local control room. Are you guys also working to try to prevent this legislation from passing? Well, we have been concerned over the past number of years. We've looked closely at what Oregon, Washington State and Colorado have done. And it looks like this is on a fast track that it's not something that I think would be difficult to really be fighting it right now but we can help shape it, how it's gonna work best for each tent. Right, it's better to have a voice. Right. Yeah. And because given our current situation which is that it's already legalized, so there's already that step of the commercialization is a big one. And in our organization, we've looked at the big tobacco organizations, industry, targeting youth, they have really strong lobbyists, they have a lot of money and it's cost a lot of, a lot of hard vaping. And the vaping. And so that's a whole nother component of the marijuana legalization is it's not just growing a crop and having a baggie full of weed that it's vaping the high potency THC and what we know right now with this, the recent lung injuries is mostly been caused by the THC pods in vaping device. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because of the thing, it's because of the vitamin E unit. Vitamin E, yeah. There's a way of that. Yeah. Yeah. In fact. Yeah. And so just so you know, my, my, outside of the youth implications and public health implications generally, my concern is that this is seen as a cash cow. Yeah. And that what they always do, like they do with tobacco, they then develop this creates this tax through taxation, they create this pot of money and you're not going to put it in the subsidized motor vehicle or paving of roads. They're going to say, well, where would this best fit? And they'll put it into the agency human services, for instance. And then that agencies funding or the availability of funds increases. So then the legislature, which always struggles to fund AHS, will say, well, we're good here. We can defund them and we can give them less general fund money and wherever else they used to source funds and they become, they become addicted to this funding source. So then if anyone has become the problem or when the lobby say we need more, we need to do more. We need to do more to expand our business. We are now hooked. And there's this powerful lobby in the halls of this state house which does not need another powerful lobby. They can barely function right now on pick your issue. My concern is that they will run that state house. And it's about losing more voice and more community say over things like this. I find it really troubling and the people that are supporting this generally show concern over the presence of big, powerful, national lobbying concerns seem like not want to talk about it. And I really struggle with it. So I guess we're not ready to sign it tonight because we want to make some changes to the language. Okay. I would suggest then that you, if you have questions, you can call Vermont League of Cities and Towns or get in touch with me. And maybe I can help provide some more information on that level and we could have a meeting about that. Can I leave this with you? Yes. Okay, good. And... I have your phone number. If you have my phone number. I'm going to call you tomorrow. I'll keep her company. Are you there? Sorry. Yeah. That's good. I'm glad that we're here. You're looking for people to testify, get us on your distribution list so that we can get down there. Yeah. That's good. Thank you very much for your support. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for coming. Nice to meet you again. I know I've met you before, but the name didn't ring a bell. Okay. Good job. All right. I'll leave that with you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Do we have a word version of this? Yes, we do. Who gets the meeting record? Yes. Yeah. I sent this out. We got it from DLQT and I sent it around. Okay. And we're going to make some changes to it. Yep. Yep. All right. Next up, IT. So we approved to award the RFP contract to RB Tech. And that's all going good, but it occurred to me that we did not authorize anyone to sign the contract and associated documents. So I'm wondering if there would be a motion for Denise, myself. I would make a motion to have cliffs sign it. Absolutely. All that work. You can get your handcock on it. Right. So I removed it. I removed it, so you're seconding it. Okay, I'm seconding it. Okay. Any further discussion? Aye. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Thank you. Is that in on IT? Well, just so you know what's going on there is now we will notify everyone that this is the decision that's been made. We will move forward in engaging into the new contract as quickly as possible with RB Tech so that we can start saving money. Right. We'll save money per month with this new contract. All right, great. Is that it on IT? That's it. Good. Thank you very much. I thank you again for your work on it. It was huge. You couldn't have done it. Right. A huge amount of work and it's very time consuming, so thank you. It's done. I think it was a good process to give us all the opportunity to learn more and also realize where we had some holes in how we were energy or IT infrastructure. We'll be able to do so in a much more informed fashion coming forward. Right, because now we have online items so we don't run into the problem. We'll be saving up for the server. And that one item will be informed on an annual basis. Right. And we can also be more engaged as a board with what's going on with our IT needs. Right. It should be a process that goes over the year. Okay, so I sent around the appeal that we received regarding the Grimaldi decision made by the DRB. Christopher Bachman appealed it to Superior Court, which is the process after the DRB if they appeal and it goes to the Superior Court. I sent it around all the information around with everybody. It's in the folder. Keep it created a separate folder. The doc, Dorothy Nell is aware of it. John McCullough, the new zoning administrator, Bob Martin, I sent it to Jim asking him what his legal advice would be regarding this matter. And he basically said it's a neighbor dispute. And recommended that he just be on the list to receive information and updates in case something comes up that the town cares about. Right, so he would just be on our, we would just say, yes, please follow this, put our attorney on the certificate of service because you don't know what's gonna come up. So that's the recommendation. I don't know if anybody has any further thoughts on it or comments. Yeah, it is. The neighbor stuff is never fun. Well, that whole situation, of course. Yeah, so I guess I would make a motion that we authorize our town attorney to follow the matter on our behalf and keep us informed. Any further discussion? Will those in favor please say aye. Aye. I have a couple of things, and one thing I didn't put on here that I didn't know at the time what's going on. You know, normally Sandra comes in like this meeting to give us her and her monthly update. Between holidays and the timing and Cynthia, who works for NEMRIC, who's our auditor because of our charter, as I've been able to come in and do what she needed to do. So Sandra requested, and I'm throwing this out because I told her we kind of had things set for February 3rd that we were meeting at February 3rd. She wondered whether she could come in and do her update then. I told her I thought that we were pretty focused on what we were gonna be doing then and that I thought it could wait until we met on the 10th. But I wanted to see if everybody agreed with that. If anybody's in a big yank for it, we can have her come in on the 3rd. If not, we have her come in on the 10th. There's, she's not raising a red flag. No. Nope. That sounds great. Okay, so yes, the 10th. Thank you. That was my thought. Curtis Fawn Greeter Grant. You'll remember we've done that two years in a row at Curtis Fawn. They would like to do that again, but this coming season, there have been some issues in influencing the grants. You know, when you're dealing with some teenagers, they're not always as good about giving you the information they're supposed to. There's been issues with filing reports in a timely manner to close out the grant. So I want to keep the thing about it between now and then it takes quite a bit of staff time to, for the treasury piece of it, a volunteer is supposed to do the grant administration. And there's been, I mean, I spent last summer quite a bit of time trying to get information and helping to make sure that people did what they were supposed to do with regard to their role in this grant. So I just want you to think about it and we can talk about whether or not we think it is something that we want to do again. We can have the discussion while Sandra is still here on the tent to talk about the amount of time it takes her. Noreen Bryan is willing to step up and help more with this. And she's got, I think it's in the folder, I sent you her ideas of a better way to manage the grant. But I mean, it's a good program. We initially talked about wouldn't it be nice if it could move around to different farms? I asked that last year and it didn't seem like that was the right timing. I thought my recollection is that this, the Greeter program was initially presented to us from the Conservation Commission and I remember that. I think initially they were involved in saying that this would be a good thing because Noreen Bryan and Colleen Bloom are members of the Lakes and Streams Committee which is an offshoot of the Conservation Commission. We don't appoint them but that's kind of how they exist. And you remember when it's the first year, Josh Mulholland, maybe Josh somebody came in and talked to the board about what this project was, how it could help to eliminate or help to deter the transfer of stuff on the bottom of boats to educate people. Right. So that's what it's basically about. It's been, I think the two volunteers they were scheduled for like 15 hours a week or maybe five weeks, maybe it was like they tried to concentrate on weekends. Right, they tried to concentrate like on Friday afternoon through Sunday because that's when the most people are gonna come out to Curtis Pond and use their boat. Curtis Pond is one of the less healthy ponds and catalysts like number 10 pond is pretty healthy. Curtis Pond because of its shallowness and age and all that stuff over the years I think has more issues. That's a trope. Yeah, that's the word. I would like, yeah, my, for one thing, my point of making any important decisions has passed. So that's good. We're not doing that tonight. I would like to have somebody from the Conservation Commission or the Lakes and Streams Committee or whatever. So Noreen lives in Maryland in the winter? Okay. So I'll ask her if there's somebody else she could suggest or maybe she could do it by phone. Either way, because I feel like rather than us kind of putting ourselves in the decision-making role and then adding, we just heard from Central Vermont Planning Commission, we were able to recruit and organize a planning team. So this seems to me to fall within the bellowic of one of those groups and I'd love for them to be. Well, I would I'll do it. This is why I wanted to- This is why I want to- This is why I didn't want to have us try to make a decision tonight. I wanted to get information. I'll see if maybe we can get Noreen on my phone. She's telling me to spend the grant administrator to come in and answer questions or- Well, and maybe even present a recommendation given all of these challenges we've had, I would really love it if they would say given all of this and then another question that's playing in my head is that we budget for the match because they're- It's in kind. It was in kind, okay. So yeah, so have them take all of this information including your input of how much time it took you and let them make a recommendation to us about how it could happen. And I wanted, you know, because when people do these grants what they think, oh, it's in kind. It's no big deal, we can do the hours. But what they don't understand it has been a problem years and years and years because they don't realize how much time it takes on maybe the treasurer to keep the records, you know, send the report. Sandra had to fill out a report. Right. This shows the table with the deadlines. Right. So anyways, so maybe I'll see it. I'm pretty sure I can get an orange to say she'll be on my phone. She's the one that knows the most about it. She's the one who came up with some ideas to make because I kept saying, how can we make the process run better so that we don't run into some of the issues we've run into not so much the first year but more the second year. Yeah, I agree with what's being said here but we need to see effectively a plan that will address the concerns and help us avoid issues that arose last month. Without that, it's just setting off. Yeah. Well, and who's gonna be the owner of it? Who's taking the ownership role? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's usually the ownership role. The only thing that helps a lot of ability here, the town can incur some liability and we don't want to be in that position. No. We need to do diligence. Right, and I want more guarantee from the grand administrator of ownership and committing to... Right, right. We want to delegate that. Right. We love it and we want to delegate it. So there's not more of us trying to help pick up pieces. I agree. All right? Yeah. And that's kind of where it was. I was going to mention that this Ann Gilbert had called me but then she showed up, which was great. It seems like there was any other business, old business, new business, seems like I had something I was going to bring up under other business, or old business, and now I can't remember what it was. Maybe it's because of the time. Yeah. I have a quick question for, if we could go into executive session on personnel, I'd make the motion that we go into executive session for personnel discussion. You want to approve any minutes first? Nope. That's not. I think everybody's had their fill. We've been here since five. Well, that's why I'm so exhausted. That's why you are. Yeah, exactly. We've been here. John. I took my butt out of the chair at three and a half hours. OK. I made a motion. Yeah, I thought we were here. Is there a second? Yes, second. All of the papers that I had. It takes 55. Thank you.