 Unfortunately, you can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live Freeze Rwy'n ffugio'n 200 pwynydd o'r bank. Rwy'n dweud o gwneud 19-0, y casio Brithau yn ei gweithio. Felly,'r cyffredin yn ei ddoch chi'n cadw i'r pan. Rwy'n dweud o'r perth, y gweithio sy'n Steve Collins. Steve Collins wedi gweithio a dda yn dechrau. Mae'r cyffredin yn ei gweithio. Mae gyda chi, a'r cyffredin yn y gafel. Mae'r cyffredin yn dda, ac sy'n gweithio'r gweithio. Mae'n gweithio'n gyffredin yn y Gweithio Iw Bank a Ben. ac mae'n ddwy'r llyfr yng Nghymru. Mae'n gwybod yw'r ysgol yn ddweud! Mae'n nhw'n gwneud ati'r gwaith yn y Llyfrgell Gwyrgan yn ei ddiwedd yn yr hyn yn y fwy. Mae'n ymhell, ond mae'n ddim yn... mae'n ddim yn ddigon. Mae hyn yn y gwneud. Mae'n ddysgon. Mae'n ddod. Mae'n ddechrau,'n oes yn ddod. Mae'n ddod yn ddod. Mae'n ddod yn ddod. Ieitha gynnwys, dwi'n ddin i'w fath o'r pryd. Felly, rydw i, gwneud hynny i'w ddechrau mewn amser na gyllid 2018. Felly dwi'n emosion ty dechrau, rydw i, rydych chi'n niwed, yn ymdweud. Felly, rhywbeth hefyd yn ymddangos yn 16 oed gyda... Felly yn gallu ddim ddechrau, mae'r gadeig arhwnna fydd yn digwydd ar y ddechrau. Felly, mae'r ddechrau ar hwn. Felly, rydw i. Mae'n bwrdd. Rydyn ni'n ei ddysgu a sydd yn ffordd, joined Nicol Zaggy, Jo! Rewbeth i gyda, Nathan Sain. Ydw i gychwyn i'r legend, unrhyw unrhyw iawn o'r hanesier. Dwych chi'n amdau. Rhywbeth i'n ei ddysgu, dweud o'r ffrindio, y bod yn cael phabwch. Efallai, gwnaeth yreifon i chi oedd i'r fan. Ddodd ychydig, R strengthening. Cymruon. Gyd yn ardal, Yn hynny, mae'r gweithbawd yw yn ardal, How quick time goes when you are tired to be honest. But what can I say to achieve what I've achieved with my father. I remember my dad also. It's amazing. What can you say? 46 you know, like I say, one of the greatest of all time you're up there with your Floyd Mayweather, your Rocky Marciano. I don't think people realise how... a dyna'r cerddio'n gwneud. Felly, mae'n dda'r cyfrannu'r hyn o'r problemau. Mae'r cyfrannu'r cyfrannu. Mae'r 9-yr-old. Rwy'n ddim yn ddweud y ffrannu a dda'r cyfrannu. Mae'r cyfrannu'r cyfrannu. Mae'r 2 mlynedd yn y gyrd. Mae'r cyfrannu, mae'r cyfrannu. A'r cyfrannu'r cyfrannu efo'r ddweud.OOO! O'r meddwl ymateb yw 10 yr ysferwyr, mae'r meddwl yn bwysig mewn feddwl. Fe'r meddwl yma'r meddwl yn meddwl yw Chris Stock. Undi'r meddwl? Chris Stock. Rwy'n meddwl yma. Yma'r meddwl yw deuddo yn meddwl yw meddwl. Mae'r meddwl yn y dyfodol. Mae'r meddwl yn ysferwyr. Felly'r meddwl felly yma negwyr ymwysig yn rhaid i gael y bwysig, mae'r meddwl yn ei wneud yn dderyn a mae'r meddwl yn ei ddeuio. That was poor limbs at time the first Coach who had tamed me out of there. I remember how horrible that felt losing, so I lost my first ever fight I must how I beat him six times afterwards. I'm not just that but his father was one of the judges. That's not fair right? Yes so it's that just go to show you wasn't a natural from the start it was a hard work That's what happened. started winning a few, losing a few but I all come together when I was 12 so I started really dedicating myself, realize I was never going to be a rhythm statue of the world okay so I started to become really focused and things were starting to click when my dad was training me every day in the week. He kicked my ass made the week. No, no mess around me, I come home from the school and the rain is sleet or snow and he made sure I go for a run. even if he wanted to ychydig o'r rhan. A 12? Yn ystod o'r strygu o'r gweithio, yn 36kg. Rwy'n ymgyrch yn gwneud o'r cyflawn, yn cyfrifio'r cyfrifio, ac yn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch, yn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch, mae'n bwysig yn ymgyrch. Mae'r gwybod maen nhw'n bwysig, mae'n bwysig yn ymgyrch, ac mae'n bwysig yn ymgyrch. Yn ymgyrch, mae'n bwysig yn ymgyrch, mae'n bwysig yn ymgyrch, yn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch. Mae'n gweithio'r cyfrifio, mae'n gweithio ymgyrch, mae'n bwysig yn ymgyrchỉad. Mae'n bwysig yn ymgyrch. Wrth gwrs, ymgyrch yn fy mfyrdd, mae'i gwybod gwir. Gweithio'r gwir, ac mae'n gweld i'r ffynwyd. Rwy'n gweithio'r wgwyr yn ymgyrch. Yn hyn yw yn ei wneud. Bwynt fel oedd yn ei gynnau i'r boll pwysig ac mae'n 17 o 18 o'r ymgyrch, Didnery o fond. I kept pushing, kept pushing, kept all my faith I do it. So your dad's background was from Att intentionally your mum's from Wales and your dad... What was that story? A how did they two connect? So basically, my grandfather after the war, a lot of Talian immigrants move to Bedford, so my dad at the age of about four, five, due to brothers so they basically move to Bedford. Ac mae ofetwyd yn terminiaid ers eisiau cefnod am i jetному i gweithio y roeddonol byddwch. Ac mae'n meddwl figured maeонов ing lu… sut wedi的 From England is the first language, right? So ein gydwch yr hanfudd. Ac Foot!(75 years old-age, 15th-laugh, 9th-laugh, 16th-laugh, 17th- eight years old, 20th-laugh, 20th-laugh, 17th-laugh, 21th-laugh, 22th-laugh-ios, 21st- سے Ooh- hard-shef didn't do well, 22nd-laugh was none, 25th-laugh was a little punch, middle-thile bus. Mae broddwch wedi ein fath gydlif, 20th-laugh was the first language correct? a dwi'n gallu bydd o'r ffordd. Ond yw'n mynd i gwasbydd gael o'r fameni, o'r bwrw'u amser, rhai, o'r bwrwio sylfa, ddweud yn gwneud mewn byd yn y bydd. Rydyn wedi bod eisiau o'i meddwl i chi'n ei wneud, a hefyd, nid oedd e'n meddwl a'r bwrw i'r rhaid fe gwerthodd. El elderly yn ei bod yn i'ch meddwl i'r ffordd, ond rhaid dweud o'u meddwl i'n ei gwneud. Dwi'n sgol i'n meddwl i beth o'n ardal. ac yna ymddangos. Felly, fel yw ddiddor i'r unig, rydyn cyddwydd yn gweithio'r gwreidd a'r agahol. Fyny'r hynny'n dod yn gwir. Rwy'n meddwl i'r ysgolion. Rwy'n meddwl i'r ysgolion. Wythach, fyddwch, rwy'n gwir i'r ysgolion. Yn Sardenio, rydyn cyfnoddyn nhw. Fyny'n meddwl i'r ysgolion. Rydyn yn gwir i'r ysgolion. Felly, mae'r dyfodol yn ysgolion, iddo. Yn ystod, gan drefnodd gyma'r gwrthwyr, mae eraill mae'r nôl, gan y gallwn drwy gwrthwyr, mae'n dangos dda, mae'r hanes unrhyw gymredu i gwneud, nid oedd eu tanffydd. So mae'n Lampos, Corthedd, Qwil, gymryd ym Mhwg honno. Ie, mae'r gwaith o'r gweithi, mae'n gweithio'r gytir a hisbwyllfa, ond mae'n gobeithio. I left, he hitchhiked his way around Europe, he spent time in Amsterdam, slept in the bridges, just busking his way around Europe, wanting to get back to England and the story is that he come to Bedford to meet my auntie Genina. Thankfully for me, she just went back to Sardinia. So he's going to hitchhike back to Italy because you know what state. And as it happened, he bought a big bottle back in 2020, got pissed, got on the wrong side of the road, and as he went back to La Havre, so he went over to La Havre, wrong side of the road, and then ended back in England. So he woke up next to me and said, what the fuck, I'm back in England. So he went back to Bournemouth with one of his friends and a long story short, he said he's going to Wales, so he had a mate that knew somebody in Wales and I was sure some girl in Wales or whatever, so he went to Wales. My dad was in Cardiff and he had no money even for a cup of coffee. So he went into Wimpy where my mum was 17 and was working in the Wimpy. So the stories my mum used to say, he went in and he asked for a cup of tea and she went to get a cup of coffee. My mum wouldn't serve him, so she said, this guy's taking the piss. Can you all serve him, he's much shy. As usual, he was 16, so my dad would have been more 19. And that was that. And basically he waited for my mum and he was pissing down in the rain outside. He waited for my mum to come out. And my mum, because she worked at Wimpy, was like three burgers. And my dad was starving and he was like, can I get out of a bunny of burgers? My mum gave him one of the burgers. And what can he say? They sort of, I think, went to, went somewhere to a drink or to some disco. There was some free disco or whatever. And yeah, they sort of connected thanks to me. Oh, thank God. And what happened then is it got together. Then they decided to go to London where my mum worked at 20th Century Fox. My dad still tried new music and so on and worked there as well. And I was born in Hammersmith. And so I was born in Hammersmith London. And then from Hammersmith, they went to Sardinia. Hitchite, the Sardinia. But they didn't know that one because that's before the story mixed up a bit. So they went to Sardinia. Yeah, they went to Sardinia. Anyway, they went to Sardinia. No, on the train. Sorry, somebody hitched on the train to Sardinia. I would live there for about, I think, about 12 months. And my mum missed home because she's from South Wales. And not far from herself, but it's a place called Trudiga. And yeah, they come back. And that's it. You know, sort of sailed with my grandmother or my mum's mum in a place called Markham. It's not far from here. And then, yeah, we sort of had a house there in the council house. It was a council estate called Penderamow. And that's where they sailed. And that's where the biggest story is. So, yeah. By any chance you live still with that, innit? Yeah. But you know what? I used to like my dad, you know, like I said, he was a musician at the bank. We were following each other with my uncle Lucho, my uncle Sergio. And we actually had a record contract. They sort of came with Paul Young. Baron Knights, a band that managed my dad. So I used to hitchhike. I used to love it. I used to fucking love it, man. I was 14 and I used to hitchhike from, because they were based in Milton Keynes, right? So the story is my mum didn't want to go to Milton Keynes. And they were on the verge of like spending up time. And thankfully for me, because I was going to leave where I am here to go to Milton Keynes. And my mum stopped the keys. And there was a place called Lakes Estate, which, you know, there's no boxing gyms there. Put it that way. I don't know what would have happened to me, but I wouldn't have been a boxer. Ain't it mad how all the stars align for where you end up in life like from your dad busking travelling all through Europe, just searching, ends up in Wales. Being a woman basically running away to Sardinia, busking homeless again, hitchhiking. Ain't life mad? It's mad. It still puzzles me. I'm a weird thinker. I can look up at the stars and I just think, what the fuck is going on out there? It's just life is mad. And to then all that and then for your careers, again, it's unbelievable. But when you were going through school in as well, Joe, you had a tough time with bullies and stuff. Yeah. Because I know you wanted to play football. Was that one of the reasons why you changed from football to boxing to then defend yourself against bullies? No, I was not told. Believe it or not, I was an ABA champion. I was only small, I was like 5, 6 and 10. And the comprehensive school when she was outside my catchment area. And it was really strange. One day at the year 3, I was like 14, I went to school. And it was like everybody was ganging up on me. It was like people I thought my friends was my friends. And I thought sometimes name calling. It wasn't like physical, it was like name calling. Mental abuse. Yeah. That's really tough when you're young. I always remember there was about 30 kids come up to my house. I still remember it on bikes and I was going to fight this one boy. So that's how you were one-on-one. But they were going to jump me, right? So my dad goes out, he said, I'll tell you what. You and you go on down the lane and fight. Do you know what I mean? Don't all be together. Obviously it didn't happen. He didn't want to know. But when I went back to school, I just got called names, just got isolated. And then I sort of became, it's really weird man. Just like. The close? Yeah, yeah. I just thought I isolated myself from people and it really affected me. And boxing was my escapism. It's like I was a completely different person. When I was outside school, I don't know why I didn't change. I should have changed schools, but maybe that's part of me being stubborn. And it probably did affect my schoolwork, although all I wanted to do was box. So my dream was just to become a world champion. I was doing OK. So once I was that academic, I was really that bothered with school. Certain subjects I was OK with. But I just wasn't bothered. It's like, I remember speaking with a careers teacher and a member saying to me, I remember saying I was in the 50s. So what are you going to do when you leave school? And I was like, I'm going to be a world champion. She just looked at me and laughed. I should not seriously do that. Joseph, what are you going to do when you leave school? I'm going to be a world champion. But that's what I truly, truly believed in my mind because at the time I was winning two, three ABA titles. In school I was getting the piss out of all the time. Made it feel like shit coming home. No one had to go to school. And it's weird to say that the safest place for me was the ring. And I loved it. And that was where I felt worthy. I felt some self-worth and felt somebody was when I was boxing. Is that because people were taking away your confidence, taking away your self-belief, but yet you were feeling more at ease while you were actually fighting? Yeah, exactly. That's where I felt like somebody. That's where I felt like a home. A boxing ring was my home. I was going up there beating people in the ring and learning and getting that all out. Because I was quite shy, very shy. A very introvert. And boxing I'd come out and I'd drop my hands, but outside I would be very quiet and within myself. And a lot of that is to do with, I think, from what happened in school. And you know what? It's best I wouldn't change it because that strengthened me up as a kid. So when I was boxing in the likes of Lacey, in boxing life, Hopkins were bullies. My had me learning that as a kid, I think. And our strength? Yeah. Give me the strength. And now I've been there before. Your last fight you lost when you were 17? Was it amateurs? Yeah, so last fight I lost was in the European Junior Championships in Prague in the old Czechoslovakia in 1990, July. I won my first fight against Hungary in one second round. And it's the first year you ever had to wear headguards, right? And I never wore a headguard. Even in Prague, I never wore headguards. They'd have to wear a headguard, but I just hate headguards. And you'd put a big headguard on. And a boxer's Romanian guy and he had this style like this. And I never seen this style before, right? So I won my first fight and went into that fight and he just kept flicking me under my headguard. And anyway, I lost that fight. And I still remember, I lost two fights that year. Lost in the wild seniors against a fight called Michael Smyth of Barry on a split decision. Lost that fight on points. And at that time, the trainer called Paul Williams who trained me, he was the amateur boxer trainer on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays. My dad would train me all the time, like I said. So what happened? I remember Paul Williams, he said, my dad was doing the music still in the band in Milton Keynes coming back before. I remember he was saying to me, I want you to improve. He was a bit like a father figure because he was always trying to look after me in the gym and that. Obviously a father figure was quite close to me, boxing wise. And he wanted me to sign a piece of paper to him pro as a kid, I was 17. I was like, I don't like to him pro. And I had to tell him, he was hard. I was a young boy. I never saw him again since. He basically gave the keys to my father and said to my dad, yeah, you will have the gym. So my dad said to me, Joe, do you want me to train you? And as a main trainer, although we use my trainer anyway, right? As a main trainer. I thought, yeah, let's just do it. So thinking about it, I like, we went on doing three consecutive ABA titles. It shouldn't help. One thing that pissed me off was not going to the Olympics in 1992. And to be honest, that's the only time I see my dad cry when they come to boxing. He had to come home and tell me, even though I was the ringing ABA champion nationals, I wasn't selected to the Olympics because they were, because I was from an unfashionable gym in Newbridge. And all the people selected from Cardiff, they selected the Cardiff boy to go to the qualifying tournament who lost to Robin Reid. And Robin Reid went on to the Olympics. They got a bronze medal. And I'm sad the only thing I should be at the Olympics in 1992. But it wasn't to happen. But anyway, won three consecutive ABAs. After the second, it was going to improve. I went well to wait like middle way. And dad said, listen, nobody's won three ABAs in three different ways. It's just, you need 20, 90, 20, you just win another one. So I did. So I won another ABA. And then, yeah, we basically had a conversation with Mickey Daff, a promoter called Mickey Daff and Taylor. All that's right. That sounds like a rock near me anyway. Yeah. So we drove up to Wardawshree. So remember it. And I agreed being a three times ABA champion. I didn't speak to any of the promoter. I didn't speak to Barry Urin at the time or Fran Warren at the time. And it's because we were naive, you know? We just wanted to improve. So it might have taken an insight. I was like, what was I fucking doing like? So basically I walked out there with a £3,000 loan. I thought it was the Simon fee. And I was on £300 a week. And I was on £300 a week for 21 fights. I've become British champion, young box in the year. And yeah. So I was on £300 a week. And then I didn't realize that £300 a week was a loan. So basically I had a baby. So my ex-wife was pregnant. I was still renting a place like semi-detached. I literally had £200 at the bank. I was like 20 and no, 19 KOs. British champion had a fight on ITV. I didn't even know the purse. And my dad knew I was with dad, you know? And at the time I was frustrated because Fran Warren was taking over. And I wasn't getting away with time. None of my fights were getting shown on TV. And my father and my dad went up to London to speak to Fran Warren. And yeah, so basically, you know, he offered me decent money, good sign on fee. And because I got fucked over regarding never seeing contracts and that, it just had to pay him the loan. So you're paying to fight basically? I had to pay a loan. The first thing I did was that £3,000. I bought a fucking, I bought a Ford Sierra. I didn't have no insurance, no licence. I was driving around for about three years and suddenly I'd done a quick test and I passed my test, thank God. First time. So you had signed a deal for 21 fights. Your first 21 fights, you had 20 knockouts. British title, flying. Start to make a kind of name for yourself in the scene. Yeah, I was the young boxer of the year. And you were getting shafted? Yeah, I never saw a contract. I never saw a contract. And, you know, it's just... How did you even know you were still in a contract? Well, that's it. You know, that's how I got out of it because I had Fran Warren and obviously I was in the contract and obviously, you know, they were my managers and also my promoters. So it's a conflict of interest. I mean, so obviously looking after themselves. So I was fighting, I was getting frustrated and I thought something's going to happen. And as it happened, yeah, I signed with Fran Warren. I had three fights and he promised me a title fight and it happened, you know. I had the three fights. I was on Sky Sports, which was great. I was where I wanted to be. He was getting paid decent money. And then, yeah, it was great. I had a fight with Steve Collins. Steve Collins was the champion and he sort of... He didn't fancy the fight, you know. He said he was injured. There's a couple of reasons, but I understand why he didn't. You know, obviously he was in big fights with Eubang and Ben and obviously he's fighting this young kid that's not really got a massive name. 20 knockouts in 21 fights. Is it worth the gamble? But then stepped Chris Eubang. If anything, I was more wary of with Eubang because he's one of them guys that was backs against the wall. He's a dangerous, dangerous fucking animal. But you put him on his ass the first... What, is it 20 seconds? The first minute or something? No, that's the thing. It's probably the worst thing I did. I knocked my first 20 fights before my hands start packing because my hands got worse as my career went on. I knocked 19, I think, of the first 20 fights and I went eight rounds twice. Five rounds once. Everybody else was knocked out first two rounds. So he boxing the guy Eubang who's been in wars. He's seasoned man. He knows to get in there. I always remember like the press conference. I was cocky as fuck. So I remember, I think it's at the grove and I was like fucking Chris Eubang. You know what I mean? I'm a fucking boyfriend. I'm on the train. I'm on the valley. I'm finally got the spotlight. I see his Ali Davis and I'm like, I love watching Eubang, Brandon Collins and all these. So I remember looking across to him and he's like, that's how I'm going to knock you out. He just looked at me right. I'm going to take you to one place that you've never been. I'm going to take you to the wall and I'm looking at what's fucking the wall. But trust me, in that fight after three or four rounds I was fucked. That's the only way to explain it. I was exhausted. I think that I didn't know how to sort of pace myself. The excitement got to me and dropping in with my first left dog. Like Eubang's down. I'm like trying to finish a bit and throwing everything at him. Nothing more disheartening after about five, six rounds when you know you're only halfway for the fight. Inside you know you're not going to knock him out. And you see him walking around doing this. Like walking around the ring and I'm like out of breath and patting me. You know it's just exhausted. Absolutely exhausted. And he was true to his promise. You know he did take me to the wall. And it was by far the toughest fight I ever had as regards to exhaustion. I was fucking completely exhausted man. Like I couldn't move for three days afterwards. Like lactic acid could not move. It was really, really tough. And like I said I... Because he had only lost two fights prior to that to Steve Collins? Yeah. Yeah, yeah I know. But he was I think because Eubang used to fight. He had a good rest. And he was tough. He was tough as people say that. I've always rated him. People love to hate him. People love to... Because he's that guy when you see him you do want to watch him because it's his thing that he does what he says. But what a fighter. So when you put him on his ass and he told you look you're coming to the trenches with me. Yeah. And then... But every time every interview I've watched with Eubang he's always spoke highly of you because people say you couldn't punch. But he says you're fast and you're... And it's painful. Steve Collins every time I've watched him because I've watched you all sitting round the table he never ever seemed to give you credit. Why do you think that is? Do you think he was fearful of you? Collins I just think... Well to be honest I honestly believe that I believe Collins would have been an easier fight than Eubang. Well saying easier because Eubang was fucking tough man. Do you know what I mean? I was preparing for you... I was preparing for Steve Collins a different style than Chris Eubang. Like Steve Fallon Collins because Steve comes to you. I love counterpunching. He was a lazy fighter. I love people coming to me. I was preparing for Steve Collins. So when Eubang... When he sort of retired ten days before the fight Eubang was already boxing on the card. He was already fit. But I was more worried about Eubang because you know he ran with himself of Michael Watson. He got injured. So you're a young kid and you see how dangerous he can be and you see him against Nigel Ben. He goes down. He gets back. He's tough. And he was hungry. He wanted... And I'm like... I was more nervous. I'd be honest with you. I was a bit more nervous fighting Eubang than I was fighting Steve Collins. And... Yeah, like I said, man. I remember I was supposed to come in the ring at ten. I got pushed back to eleven o'clock. I didn't get in the ring till fucking twelve o'clock. Right? So I got so excited in the change rooms. Meet and dad and both fucking 15 rounds on the pads. Right? I remember getting in the ring. I was all like the music. I was a chef of the rear. Oh, man. I was just fucking... Like I said, I was... I was just... After the first couple of rounds, I was tired. I was naked. I was exhausted. Like I said, I was impatient myself. Nervous energy and so on. Imagine everything you've ever trained for all your life on that one night from going not just financially but your dream as a ten-year-old to become world champion. Again, somebody that I've admired and watched as an amateur watching them against Ben, what's in you? I think I have one day left to fight him and you're fighting him. Yeah. You know? Because when you won the British title you didn't look as happy because I think you've done an interview after it says, well, it's nothing because I won the world title. Then when you eventually won the world title what's that feeling like, Joe? For everything you've worked hard for everybody. Kind of underrated at that time people just saying that you're doing shortcuts this and that but then you beat one of the best. One of the greatest. How was that feeling? Yeah, it was awesome feeling but it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. I wanted to be a unified world champion and that's the thing, I always set myself goals and my dad always said something to me that stuck in my head always trained like a challenger and when you train like a champion that's when you lose. You know what I mean? So always trained like a challenger like. So beating you back, I won the unified title and unfortunately because of boxing as it is business of boxing when your stock has risen and you are a world champion the other champions don't want to fight and unfortunately I want to fight Robin Reed when he was WBC champion but when he just lost then I fight him. So he just lost a title and then I fight him. The same with Richie Woodall WBC champion. He just lost while I fight him. Then there's Charles Brewer the guy called Barry Mitchell. So all these guys have just lost titles and then I fight him. So I beat six basically world champions without their belt. So I was really frustrating and I was a bit disheartened about it because we tried to make the fights early with Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins way before it happened and it just wasn't happening. Sven Ocker was another one of German fighter that he wouldn't fight. I started getting injured. I was injured a lot. Some of my fights to be honest I found it struggling and motivated for. I remember boxing on the other card of Mike Tyson and against the fight of David Starry I remember people booing. It was disheartening man. He was like for fuck. These are styles in mix and I was switching off in fights. You should never switch off. I remember sat in the corner looking around and my dad was like what are you looking around for? I said I'm not. I'm struggling to get motivated. It's like I've reached that level and I want to fight the next level and I was struggling a little bit for motivation. I was always 100% fit but I mean up here. I didn't fear an opponent and no one could beat that guy. That's why I always fought the best. The best fighter I've boxed is when you saw the best of me. Lacey Kester then you see me fight my best but other fighters I'm supposed to be quite easy. I would like maybe switch off a bit. I'd always be fucking tremendously fit. I mean I was at a great engine because I trained hard but up here man you need a little bit of a fear factor to think if I don't fight my best I could lose. Do you think that's where burying at school kicks into play? I don't want to be buried because I know in the Lacey fight is it Lacey? You were scared. You were going to pull out two weeks before. I think you get injured as well. Why was that? Was that the fear of everything? Do you think that extends from school days as well? I'm not so with a Lacey. I just fear of failure and it's something I always had. I lost nine amateur fights in 120 fights. Last defeat was a 17 so all of a sudden I got this fight. Jeff Lacey comes along right? By 90% of the press he was going to beat me. Boxing news like 90% I was a bookies underdog the only time ever. I wanted to fight. I think two weeks before the fight I got injured. I'll be honest it wasn't a massive injury it was an injury it played in my mind. I went to Harley Street I still remember going to Harley Street I had an injection in my hand I came back I was on the Great Western the train was right like coming back. I still remember it. I was dead. They said I got pulled out. You're fucking loud. What do you mean pulled out? I always remember him saying Joe if you pulled out they're going to call you a fucking chicken. What do you mean a chicken? So you already pulled out the fight because you can't pull out you're going to fight this fight. Anyway cut off and I remember coming to this gym and that ring and I said dad you know he said Joe you're in fucking shape amazing shape and this is dad who never box right and he knew my style more than anybody. He said fucking forget what people say about this guy. He said listen he's shaped your life he said you're going to beat this guy with one hand. I said what are you on about you're going to beat this guy with one hand. I said don't fucking fucking tell you now. He's like just said exactly what's going to happen after this fight you're going to go to America you're going to be a fucking superstar you're going to be where you want after this fight. He said forget these fucking so-called experts listen and he said something so simple he's like listen this guy moves four five times he throws one punch you throw five punches and move once and move around he said work it out he said from the first round to the twelf no matter what you're going to be you're going to fucking annihilate him annihilate him this guy's going to look great and I'm thinking obviously I've listened to my dad I'm still injured in the spa for two weeks and he just said you know which is probably the thing that meant more to me just turned out I said you know what science listen I'm proud of him proud of me no matter what but you have to fight this fight when I lose you have to fight this fight and that was done as soon as he said that but even though I couldn't punch for two weeks and beforehand I was thinking about pulling out I was still doing my runs I was still getting up at two in the morning doing five more runs in the dark so I was still in that I don't know you know what I'm saying I'm going to fight this fight can I postpone it a few weeks but realistically he was never going to be postponing I'm walking and they say when I look at fights the castle I mean sorry the lacy fight just being the underdog you know being written off by your own press even I remember my father an argument with somebody in the bookies because somebody in the bookies come in and say come out of a bet on Jeff Lee he's not Calzagos my fucking local tell you prick he really kicked off that's what you fucking bet on him because he was down like a bet and honestly a lot of people before was going to lose that fight but you know what it's I remember like it was something surreal in that fight all the nerves I had everything I had the day before the fight we went up and the day before the fight it was snowing I loved the snow I remember getting up in the morning and it's like I had everything was calm and even travelling on a train all my nerves had gone I was laughing, joking we were playing cards you know me and my man my manager my uncle my trainer obviously dad we went up and I was just like at the press conference at the workout before round I was just so relaxed that I just felt it was my time I remember walking to the walking from the hotel to the arena I was a bit tired right I was a bit knackered I was watching some film and I hate cold showers man right even though I jumped the cold shower I jumped fucking back and I was looking for water right so I walked we walked to the MEN from the hotel but bang as soon as the lights come on I was like shh I was just fucking just zoned in and just when I think about that fight it's like when I got caught early on I didn't feel nothing it just I think I could was on such a high then I feel I could have done it for 15 rounds you know I threw over 1000 punches or whatever and it just that was probably the most tuned in I've ever been for a fight it was just just unbelievable I was so proud obviously you know my dad said I told you I fucking told you so I told you what you're gonna do and what happened afterwards you know it went my career went to another level and obviously America took notice you know HBO Showtime you know the big names and that's where at the age of 33 after boxing all the years 33 34 finally I'm on to another stage you can showcase your talent with the LAC fight why do you think that you were so fearful of him though because what was he 20 in all they were saying that he was the potentially next mate Tyson at the SuperMiddleweight division I wasn't fearful of him I was never feared of any guy he was solid though I wasn't feared the only thing that brought me more than anything was the fear of failure of losing, of failure I still remember the first fight I ever lost as a 10-year-old I remember the last fight I ever lost 17 when I was 17 I remember the Welsh championship I remember I've lost like 9-10 fights 120 I tell you about the losses but I can't tell you but most of them wins so I fear of failure and it's because I trained all this time to get to this unification fight so from being world champion in 1997 9 years of champion until I get a unification fight then you're injured do you know what I mean I'm injured and I couldn't spar so then you start I've been self-doubt in myself I could postpone it maybe a few weeks because obviously my am I had an injection so I basically had injections painkill injections in my hand for years before fights why did your hands end up so bad Joe? um punching people in the head just but I had hand trouble it caused you through so many punches though no but what happened I adapted my style because when I was younger I used to be a big big puncher right I remember Bach sparring with Nicky Piper he said I love Nicky right so Nicky come to the boxing gym I remember my old gym I was in his 18 AB champion he just boxed Nigel Ben he was going to box for a European professional title so I walked to the gym on my bag got into my old gym and Nicky was there he was looking sharp he had a Mercedes a lovely car outside to me he was like big name he just boxed give Nigel Ben a really good fight and he boxed for a European title and Charlie appears to train and said can Joe do like six rounds Joe don't do six rounds yeah yeah yeah gym was full of kids in that like though Gabbyn was young and the boys in the gym and I remember sparring and he was like boom boom fucking I might as well ok back in I remember slipping over and hitting him with a left dropping him first round so I got Nicky Piper which was boxed for a world title give Nigel Ben to a fight so that was really good for me right and he wobbled and he dropped and I fucking I thought brilliant you know what I mean I was 18, 19 he was a lot bigger in me as well he got back he done three rounds in his training went like that's enough and he said to Nicky he said don't you know tell Joe not to see it I wasn't saying anything I fucking told everybody I was working over the moon and I was thinking so in my mind I was thinking I just fucking just I boxed and dropped Nicky Piper just beat you know just boxed Nigel Ben and went like 10, 11 rounds to have a fight with him good fight a bigger than me just all them things so I was a big puncher and I started my first six, seven, eight, ten fights as a pro not going to be able to first round but so when the hand started to go the injections, the cortisones I mean every fight I had to go a pain killer before I got in the ring basically because I couldn't punch then they adapted my style I think well I can't be loading up with my left hand anymore so me and dad used to work on speed even sparring when I sparred I did spar but I sparred with small guys so I just move around for my reflexes I sparred with boys in the gym Nathan Cleverly Bradley Price is small but I wouldn't load up on them because I couldn't so I would probably spar with big guys again so we tap about so that was my sparring was really moving tapping around never had wars in the gym and to be honest I think having wars in the gym isn't a good thing because you don't get paid to get beat up and sparring you get hit in the head enough so for me it was just doing my footwork using my speed reflexes, feints and if you look at it that probably added to my longevity in boxing because I boxed and he had a peak of 36-37 it was very rare the Lacey fight came at 33 I fight Mickol Kessler who was at this peak of 39 all the belts in my national stadium and then to go to America 36-37 it's unbelievable it's mad so after the Lacey fight then you got Kessler he was fat and I know that was your biggest test for all the belts in the line fighting at Millennium Stadium what's come through your mind before that fight because you were still people were always still you were still underrated all the time people were always doubting you why do you think there was so much doubt around you even though the career you had that you were hitting 42 and 0 43 and 0 why was there still doubt over your head? I don't know I think it was hard from the Starks and from the South Wales Valleys Do you think for an English boxer I think it was for a man in a different country different places I got a Sardinian father Italian name and from the Valleys near the Valleys not in Cardiff so me being from my little club stopped me going to the Olympics and I think a lot of it was to get it took a long time to get that sort of just the way it is just the way it is I think but you know what like the Kessler fight man like I said to there was so much pressure on that fight because I remember watching Kessler in Copenhagen when I boxed on the Tyson undercard being a fight called Will McIntyre in five rounds and I looked at what was undercard I thought these fucking kids he's going to be good this boy I just noticed right away where he has a micro he's going to be a good fighter kept my eye on him seeing him come through the ranks and when we made that fight as if I wanted you know I wanted to be at that age of 34-35 I just wanted to have all the belts I was an IBF champion ring magazine champion WTO champion with two belts missing and I was a WBA WBC which Bickel Kessler had and yeah I knew it was going to be a tough fight I'd have to be at my best it was a lot of pressure but I just don't think about the crowd man you know you can't think it's hard enough to just think about the guy you're going to fight and like what I say you know first four rounds was tough he hurt me in the third round buzzed me up a couple of times I think he was the third or the fourth buzzed me a little bit back I got a great shit I went back and one good thing I just had to adapt and that's one thing where my style is quite unique you know I can change my style and just not really think about it so I decided to box so I started moving using my style frustrated him and caught me with a good body shot with a body shot in the eighth round and just out boxed him but you know using the fight from the first round to the twaf he's probably the best fighter I boxed he was like I said 39 and 0 my style was 42 and 0 all the belts he was younger you know he was hungry he was tough you know and I was just so happy to win that fight but I knew that was going to be my last fight at super middleweight because the struggle to make the weight was fucking awful man I mean like I lost 36 pounds in 15 weeks for that fight and the pain of nobility dehydration and the 24-36 I was before the fight wasn't enough to get my strength back it was still weak but I was in my engine my fitness was there but I was lacking my punching power not just because of my hands because it drained my weight so much and then that was it and I said to dad like I fucking done it like 10 years beat my core caster basically got a big belt there it's only one thing to do and I was to go to America and there's a big mouth out there called Bernal Hopkins and I thought it'd be great to move up be a two-way world champion and I always wanted to fight in the States I always wanted to fight in America so that was the next step for me The journey was there no anything coming into your mind to retire after you'd won all the belts you'd achieved it all your completion your main objective was to go to America and make a mark there because the Americans didn't wait you did they because they think British he's not fought anyone did you have to pay for your own flight to go to America to wind Hopkins up to Bernal Hopkins so that's where I'm at I said yes I have more respect after the Lacey fight but I remember speaking with a little bit more of the time I'm running basically I think what was at the time is I'm about fighting the O2 but I knew it was coming to the end of my career fighting the O2 and I was like I want to fight Hopkins all the fights are not going to happen this and that I'm thinking fucking I want to fight Hopkins he's the one talking I thought let's just cut out the promoters on that side of it I just beat Kessler two weeks before and Ricky Hatton was boxing me where they could do with the fucking weekend away anyway so he says yeah and so Mike we went out there on the press celebrating and yeah so I remember going out there I spoke to the HBO the press room and Hopkins was at the press room and yeah I just I still visualized I remember going in there I could see him coming there fucking see him making his way with his launderage there and that's when he says in beautiful words I've never let a white boy be I've never let a white boy be fighting me he would lose I didn't want to say if he would fight me he would lose he just said back and forth and then bear in mind there's no like social media really there that was like on YouTube but there was no like social media like it got now but instantly then words and people say oh that means you were fighting no I was thinking fucking brilliant this fight's gonna get made it's gonna be a big fight now because he said that so that was it I got on the phone to Frank I said you know check out YouTube I think me coming to to Las Vegas and paying for my flights and my own room and this and that and yeah it was a good it was a good thing to do because whether the fight would be made I'm not sure but if you think about it you know it's just an amazing experience come to Vegas from where I come from the little holes are boxed to be in like in Vegas and seeing a like sort of you know a semester's loan around Swartz and then you name them Whitney Houston was like sat right behind my boy and I remember what my boy told me afterwards when I got dropped first round there's a woman put her hand on my boy Connor and he's like oh your dad's gonna be okay afterwards I fucking Whitney Houston that was like it's mad you know Michael J Fox is a big fan of you he was doing interviews and promoting you and talking highly of you was Al Pacino not there as well? Al Pacino wasn't actually at the fight but I was with him two days before because he was at the he was a premier of one of his films 88 Minutes What's he like? That's one of the times I've ever been starstruck Al Pacino was like Scarface looks quite small in real life do you know what I mean? but honestly he's one of my I love Al Pacino he's a lovely guy he was a lovely guy he was nice to chat with him for a little bit and like I said it was unbelievable I stayed outside of the of the Strip on the Strip first not that people are boxing but I basically stayed we hired the villa we only really come into it come into the Strip to do the press conferences and so on but yeah like I said man it was a great night great occasion and to win that fight was brilliant but then I knew that was it for me Tired but you get put in your ass the first round by Hawkins I did were you thinking going up a weight that be it wasn't any team that you've doubted yourself that I've maybe I stepped too much no not at all I got dropped four times in my entire life and never as an amateur never in the gym even there was a flash knock down I rushed him and I got caught out of the four times I went down I wasn't hurt but with Hawkins he was very very frustrating his style was horrible style was blend and we just didn't blend he fought the perfect fight to beat me which was just go defensive grab on the inside stop me from working but you know after four or five rounds my stamina, my engine my punch work rate I took over the second after the fight of course your fight in America so I was nervous obviously afterwards but I remember when they say split decision I was just so happy to win that and yeah that was the fight I thought I've done it finished finished at the top there's a fine line between going on two firing box in you know and so on and it wasn't about my legacy it was about legacy for me was to have that perfect zero and be very ready meant more than keep fighting losing keep fighting and making a lot more money it wasn't for me and that's not what drove me obviously we all would be comfortable but I just felt I was cutting corners in the gym I was you know I just injuries and so on my kids were getting older they were getting obsessed with that when you're going to retire when you're going to retire yeah it was decision I made was to have one last fight because your kids were upset that you get put down was that the first fight they'd ever really been at when they watched you because they were upset at the end of that fight I believe they wanted you to retire and they were still young at the time yeah they were still young yeah a corner in Joly then at the time it caused maybe eight and yeah I remember yeah so my last fight so that's the first time I saw me drop so after lacy fire allowed them to come to watch me fights they came to Kessler I'm not sure I can't remember a box after Kessler a couple more fights and not Kessler and obviously they come to America but Connor was the youngest he basically I remember when I fought against Roy Jones Jr at the Madison Square Garden I'm warming up ready to get in the ring when the security brings my boy he's crying his eyes out because he's remembers me getting dropped and I'm thinking okay so getting my hug before I get in the ring but it's probably a good thing that when they changed I got fucking dropped again this round the way seeing you beat Hopkins was Freddie Roach Hopkins trainer yeah Freddie Roach so how does Enzo your father musician being able to compete with one of the greatest trainers of all time to then because did he not use music notes as like for techniques for yourself on six and seven punches I don't know where they get that from we just had their own style from young it's hard to explain we just evolved our style you know my dad we lived Marvin Hagler's Sugary Leonard so he tried to blend them both together so my dad he wasn't just me he trained Gavin Reese from his gym Nathan Cleverley to be honest he was from this gym he trained this as a kid so he was a world champion so there's no coincidence he had such a tremendous energy in my dad he had such an energy but not just that he just knew me he was the best trainer world for me he knew every style would be awkward he knew Hopkins would be awkward for me he knew he would be awkward he knew me inside out he watched me thousands round spar I was just spar with my dad growing up he could box a bit we used to spar together he knew it would be tough that fight he was 100% confident that would win he knew I'd have to work he knew that Hopkins would spoil spoil go backwards people coming to me I left a counter punch to chase a fight you go back to your corner two rounds down already I kept trying to pull punches he kept holding on I had so much more energy it wasn't a hard fight it was a frustrating fight it was fresh after 12 rounds I didn't feel really tired but Hopkins he's just an expert he's an old time great to be an old time great considering he was an old man when I boxed him I think six years afterwards he won the world title of 50 so I think that win shows one of my best wins if not the best wins because he's an old time great to get into America and beat America in their own backyard especially a split decision you must be thinking fuck I've got that lost to my name but to win that is unbelievable again so when you were getting through that were you fighting that 12th round what were you thinking this is my last round all I was thinking was work work work I think after six rounds I felt I was on top because although it was a messy fight I felt I was working him you know he was just trying to buy time he was fighting a little blows and then he got in the fucking balls and I was like come on get him and yeah so he was just nerve wracking he was nerve wracking that so when they say I had a new and it was like yeah so that was it really and I'll be honest my last fight I knew it was going to be my last fight I spoke to dad we didn't say to the press but this is it now for me I just felt this was it I was cutting corners going in my last fight against Roy George Jr and with that I sensed it I remember one day I think I skipped training about four weeks I was still in great shape I skipped about two days and he said hey you know what you're going to get your fucking ass killed what were you all about I said I know what it was only one day in about ten weeks I've ever done that and I had a few drinks Why do you think you've done that why did I do that it's just I don't know well that's what I'm saying I knew it was time to quit because going back to the world and legacy I felt I'd done everything financially I felt I was secure I beat the Hopkins but then you go up there maybe it's your ego as well you know you've got the trappings you've got the money now you've got the sports base now you've got the award and you're thinking yeah I don't know it's got a test of soul doesn't it it was I come back and Dad said all you work for you're going to get a beat what are you talking about he just had a knack of knowing what to say and when to say it because we were so close my train and best friend since little just knew me so much a new alternative trust me when the train on the pads smashed the pad because of what he said and yeah it was bless him man How was that Madison Square Garden your last fight Roy Jones what was going through your mind going into that fight yeah I felt confident I felt sharp if you watched the fight even today I don't know it wasn't a plan it just something that happened and I think you can see in that fight I knew it was my last fight I was just enjoying myself except for the first round it went on the floor it was like a forearm I went down on the street I remember going into the Madison Square Garden in the afternoon when they just put the ring together and I was just looking around thinking this is it man this is my last fight but since I was a kid I'm in Madison Square Garden and it's like tingly you know what I mean it's like the atmosphere and just really soaking in the energy and doing the fight you know I was well I could have stopped Roy Jones I was happy I was enjoying doing the 12 rounds and I always remember the last few rounds I still remember thinking just look around last three rounds in life and the last round I was like this is the last round of your life man just enjoy it that was in my head and that was it and after that fight I knew that would be it and people were saying well why didn't you just get the 50-0 you'd like three off making history but that was my number number 46 I was like I said that just felt like it was time to think about my children you know maybe think about myself because like I said I was getting injured all the time you get punched, you get hit it was a long time to get hit and you have to live and boxing is not everything you know so when I look back part of me does think maybe I should have continued and it really affected my father my dad not boxing again I never really thought my dad would be affected because after boxing you are lost I did feel pretty lost because after the euphoria and the fucking top of the world you're super mad, you think you are but there's other things except for boxing and that's hard maybe to adapt and take in after a while Do you think that's why a lot of boxers come back because there's a void missing Yeah I think so I think that's part of where they come back Yeah definitely I missed the get up in the morning obviously the euphoria when there's nothing like it that regimental aspect of it where you got 12 weeks for the fight so in between fights I go on holidays, get fat eat loads of nice folks you can fall in now have a good drink then you're training again so when that's gone you realise what you're going to do you have to complete change your mindset because you haven't got that goal to fight again so it's easy when people say okay we'll do something else come on you can do anything you want to do Joe okay so I decided I went to London a nice place in London I sort of probably the worst thing there I'd be fucking an actor no good I done two little parts but yeah I was doing all these other things and yeah it was quite tough you know done a few TV bits TV things nothing really made me happy you just accepting that you did do what you achieved man anyway you did that you fucking done it man do you know what I mean so yeah it took a while to be honest with you it took a while to sort of come to terms with you know in the boxing normality but what I could hear Joe like to have 46 you know the world at your feet known is one of the greatest of all times going through that journey with your dad we'll touch on your dad in a little bit but we were speaking earlier like your dad was there when you were at your best your dad lived your journey with you like my dad always seen me as a fuck up he passed away when I was going through my life with drugs and crime and all that bullshit now I'm starting to spread my wings and part of me like he would have loved to have been here today he was a massive fan of you he would have loved to have been at the interviews and meeting people that he never seen me at my greatest your dad was there every minute living your dream with you like that's a beautiful thing that will live for you until you take your last breath like your legacy lives on forever every young boxer every boxer there now looks up to Joe Kozagi as an inspiration like 46 you know what an arborish boxer ever do that like you don't know with people it's mad that some boxers don't even get past 30 fights now there's like all these what you've done and what you've accomplished is fucking second to none and that's a hard part that any boxer would take for even half your fucking career but the 346 King of the world and then you're still finishing boxing and feeling as if there's something missing lonely in his kicks and it's scary how life can make the twists like that what do you think that is then that for you as in that gratitude appreciation for what you've achieved or the lack of things for boxers because you're used you're a circus act as well for people that promoters managers do this and then when you stop there's fuck all the else for you so that people go into the army they come out and they've not got anything the majority of people homeless from X army and it's mad but do you think there should be more places putting things to help boxers far after the careers I think so I think definitely it's a lot of depression it goes on a lot of people lose their way it's sad really the toughest of sports I don't think it's enough protection for boxers or to go forward with regards to educating fighters giving them another because 99% of boxers realistically don't make enough money to continue with their life and be comfortable they have to get a job because they lost what they do so it's tough there's a lot of sports that way I saw finished as the best you could finish and defeated but still I was lost I was fucking lost man for a while and I didn't realise it for a long time it took a long time everybody wants to invite you a pie there's always something going on there's holidays there there's a lot of stuff yeah before you realise it 10 years have gone past wow man I think it was quick I think I should have stayed in the ring it was the best place to be man but like you said to finish for you and defeat is a blessing but I still miss it the way from boxing I consciously left boxing because of politics I don't know my life I think maybe I stayed away from it too long it's my boys they got this gym back up and running it was not useful for you many years and it's great that they love boxing and obviously they're good boxing trainers because they watched me and I've taught them for years and this continued legacy of my dad you'd love it I still feel his energy in this place he's missed every day how was that for you Joe like the loss of your father I know he's well at brother's best friends to live the career that you've done and him being by your side to then passing away to that really affect you mentally Joe it's what I say it's a little shock when my dad was unbelievably fit he had a few illnesses and yeah it was a shock it's one of the things it's a lot to believe you know I lost my dad in September 2018 and just I get missed every day just it's hard and I lost my mum like 16 months later you know you think boxing is tough but fucking real life is really tough God tests us all as my dad used to say here is a test friend it's tough but I still feel his energy I know he's still with me and like you said he's never forgotten the legacy he's done what we've achieved in boxing means more for the fact that he'll always be remembered yeah he's had memories of live on and I'm sorry for your losses but you'll bounce back from it you'll use it as strength and fire for what you want to do for the next chapter of your life it's easier says than done loss but we don't know how to handle loss or grief because we're all soft Joe we've been speaking like we're all sensitive beings we're all searching for something to fulfil the pain and stop the fucking meth the madness that's up here it's like the frog big box everything jumping about not knowing where to go but like I said earlier achieve what you've accomplished your mum and dad live that life with you getting to travel the world seeing their son being one of the greatest that's a feeling that you can never buy that people die without ever succeeding in anything in life people lose parents there's no connection with people's parents don't see their kids those kids don't even see their parents you've got a bond there that people would be proud of there's probably people made amends with their fathers you've acted on screen love for attention no doubt there's been fucking wars when the cameras are off whatever mix you've had to create what you've created it worked perfectly and I don't think that can be rectified I don't think people can copy that I think fathers and sons have tried with a boxing world but it never got as far as you two done the most successful father and son boxing career I know anyway well and he's far but I'm sure they fell out a few times but your dad was there through thick and thin that's a beautiful thing like I say they'll be proud and I believe in energies and frequencies I believe they'll still be here that's all you can do so after the career do you regret not going to America quicker Joe? do I regret everything is meant to be I think it's all destiny it was meant to be a struggle I wouldn't be a war champion if I went to the Olympics and won a medal I wouldn't be a war champion I probably would have had money when I was a kid and just fucking got flash it happens I had the struggle to be where I was even though I'd be Chris Huban for the title I was still looking for my mortgage just about paid off my house at the time so I wasn't getting big paydays till the end so if I got big paydays then that's where I look at it do you know what I mean perfect timing I remember a story I remember speaking to a man who was Stuart he's working for HBO and I remember speaking to him before the Roy Jones fight so we just have to weigh in he said Joe what are we going to do after this fight and the only person I spoke to really except for my family and my dad that was going to be my last fight so you're going to fight next I said manny I think this is going to be my last fight and he was like yeah I'm just thinking it's my last fight he said but I'm thinking about getting the 49 and I always remember what he said he said Joe if you retire he said we have Rocky Marcial of 49 fights but yeah I think about 8 more title fights 21 more title fights so he'll be a world champion a white European fighter being a world champion for 10 years and this is where you come to America and not beat one black legend but the second black legend in Roy Jones Jr he said if you retire he said people want to appreciate what you've done now he said years to come people will really appreciate because they want to happen again and that was manny Stewart saying that whether it happens again, maybe it will, maybe it won't but the fact that he spoke to me just affirmed that it is the right thing to quit to retire because you know it was like 37 like 36, 37 and I'm gonna be realistic that nobody is a superman everybody is beatable on a given night I'll be beatable on a given night just when I fought not my best fights, I was still bad at my opponents if I fought not 100% against castling against Lice Hopkins then could have lost this way it is decision wise whatever so you just to me that would just like legacy meant more although sometimes I do think that by the fuck I should have kept going see the money all these fighters I make I thought wish my career was now with the social media shit that happens you see all these like these so called youtubers maybe they should still make a fight back maybe they should come on I think we see Roy Jones Roy Jones forward Tyson exhibition I think he made more money there Roy Jones he did against me two bit around so I'll fight you Mike would you have a with the mindset you've got now you seem to get in your spark back and do you know what I'm planning for the future and big things are going to happen again but do you ever feel as if okay do you know what I fancy a little exhibition yeah I think so do you know what why not and you see all these fighters making money I'm thinking you know I'm listen I ain't got the engine for 12 rounds anymore and yes I am a bit overweight never going to make soon I'll try to get the cruise away but I still go around to speed man it's a little quick it's a little sharp I still reflexes I don't know I don't know if I got the wrongs on the pads the hands are so quick do you know what eight twos canta why not who would you call out who is going to make me the most money Robert Steve Collins I don't know how to fight anybody it'd be a bit of fun I was thinking about doing it for my 50th next year so maybe I'm doing it for my 50th I'll get back in a bit of training see how the old bones carry on but you know what it's just a great sport man I love the sport it's great to see fighters come back and I'm a bit of fun in the ring Tyson and Jones fight was good it was actually okay man Tyson was decent but he's in his 50s it's funny do you think that's what you need about a structure how would you feel though if you're old boy not being there yeah that's the one thing I have thought about that because when I was with dad I thought I could never box again anyway because dad was obviously we were just in he was always in the corner but if I was doing the exhibition I'm sure my son's in the corner so he's still running so he would be there anyway you asked for boxing do you think he came away from it though for the 10 years how many years were away because you could have got sucked back into it and you could have possibly took another fight on yeah possibly that's maybe what it was that's maybe what it was I still think back to why did I just leave Wales and go to London probably at the time in hindsight other things back maybe I lost a lot of time dad wanted to continue boxing managing and training me not being in the gym probably affected dad because I didn't really think at the time that he'd miss boxing as much as he did and I was just getting on with my life I was just trying to do other things if you do all that bullshit he thinks it's the right thing to do at the time but I think he was to escape being one thing all your life trying to do other stuff trying to get out my system but he doesn't just go out your system that's who I am and obviously I am Joe the person but boxing sport boxing gave me the life I have made a legacy for myself for my father for my kids for the gym obviously very proud of that maybe it's time now now I'm feeling pretty good I'm coming to 50s a big milestone it's time to reflect look at life and what you've done what you've achieved things you've done wrong and like I said my sons they love boxing and maybe it's time to give them a helping hand and hopefully who knows maybe make a world champion for me one day that's in your blood I think that's where you'll thrive I think that's when you're feeling most alive when you feel as if important that no matter what car we drive or how much money we're making there's something missing if we're not trying to achieve an end product an end goal to working towards something like no matter what you put your mind to you want to become the best and that's where you think fuck it but now you're getting that spark back you're hitting to that 15 you're thinking there's people's training way just Freddie Roach they're in their 60s and they're still training you can't just not saying quit but give up we'll have our wobbles but you've got the potential to be teaching someone who just stays around the corner to be one of the greatest as well you've got the ability, you've got the backup to do it, you've got the knowledge to help train somebody to leave and change their family's life the way that your dad helps you do with your career do you know what I mean I think that's where you'll feel more alive standing in somebody's corner being an absolute legend to then you taking it all in and that's your kind of replacing for what your dad did for you and I think that's where you'll feel the spark and go do you know what fuck it yeah to have that something it's in your blood you always want to fight you fucking maybe call somebody when you're 60 or 70 you don't know how have you battled but the last 2-3 years with the drink party and stuff like that because now is it 8 months not touched a beer yeah it's a party man so 8 months I think you know I think obviously I was tough lost my dad like I said and I was like drinking that you know but I suppose after lost my dad was just such a shock you know and you just you just fucking grief so awful thing and somebody I was so close to you know it's you just try to black it out you know you just have to denial all the aspects of loss and then I was just fucked at the time mate you know what I mean I'll be honest with you I was just a massive struggle and it's just the most horribleest thing to ever go for as you know yourself mate it's the awful thing you start to explain to somebody that's never been through that and just then I only just fucking drinking you know I suppose it got a bit out of the hand just trying to fucking black it out really and I was lost man like a fucking hero and like I said my mum she got ill and like I said lost my mum as well and yeah just that was awful and I felt that I had a realisation that you know I got two sons you know what I mean I got myself we did great legacy I got my faith in God so I believe even though it was a tragedy that happened my boys needed me and I probably wasn't there for them as they should have been because I was fucking lost mate like we all we all struggled but yeah turn of the year I decided pretty spiritual awakening mate I decided that that was it and I don't want to hurt myself to do this anymore I just want to be the best person being lived life life is beautiful man like I said just stopped just stopped drinking completely just living a clean life trying to eat that but it's not that good man I'm actually going to try to vegan I've been trying to do the vegan diet but yeah just want to focus on next chapter of my life like I said I believe in my heart and my mum and dad are still here and I'm very blessed to have to still be here myself I'm still blessed to have two amazing sons you know I'm extremely proud of you know and who want to continue the box they love it it's in them you know they don't want they do it because they want to do it and it's like you just saying just now this is going to be the next chapter maybe we'll make another world champion and this will kick on and keep it going because we work too hard to just let it fucking go on in my life to let it go What was that realisation for you Joe when you're going through that time drinking every day you were drinking? I'm going to say every day but I'm just fucking drinking I'm just drinking quite a bit fucking smoking a bit it was ridiculous bit too old for that shit I'm just going to do any of that and everybody you know we just escape it was lost man it's like you're just trying to deal with grief with the pain just struggle with it but I suppose with sobriety you get clarity and it hurts but you're clear you're present it's a lot of time to reflect think back on things obviously sometimes you have regrets past is the past to learn to live in the present and be happy life is beautiful it's pretty much the future because fuck you don't know what's in the future it's painful as well I told me in 2018 all this shit was going to happen in life so many things happened more than I've said so many things happened anything can be taken away from you at any time so I'm just happy one day at a time be happy just all my boys get this gym rock and roll in who knows man who knows what's around the corner that's the beautiful thing about life we never know what's around the corner it's just trying to enjoy the moments we spoke about the power of now when we're on the phone Joan you're just about to read that I think that's for anybody watching or struggling the pain's always still going to be there the loss of your mum, your dad, their birthdays, their Christmases New Year's Eve the pain's always going to be there but you try to get rid of that pain by tanning a bottle or taking a line of gear or smoking weed it is that people do the pain's going to be there and it's going to be a hundred times worse doing that shit when you become clear when you become sober, when you become clean you see the world differently you understand, oh wait a minute stop feeling sorry for yourself stop self loving I'm fucking Joel Kazagie, I'm James English we can do something with our life we can make changes but nobody's coming to save you nobody's going to tap your window and say let's get your fucking finger out and start getting a clearer conscience that you've got the spark back where you now know that you want to do something that life's not over for fuck's sake you're Joel Kazagie, you're 46 you're fucking undisputed champion you're two weight world champion but that just goes for anybody watching that even Joel Kazagie struggles no matter who you are what you're achieving life we all breathe the same air we're all winging it to try and find something that's completion but then when we do it you weren't in your belts when all the belts had all the money had all the attention but you hurt the biggest depression in his life people maybe think you should be happier but it's not because there's no manual blueprint how we should love this life how we should be getting through it we kinda just grasp onto something that you're doing the boxing it's the fact that you love boxing but it's also the fact that you are working all the time when you start making those adjustments and changes you feel amazing you start feeling a freshness about you and that's back like 8 months I take my heart off to you brother it's amazing but this is only the beginning of your new chapter a simple as that see when you got the realisation right enough what hit you I just went away I just went on holidays just had a guts for me just went on holidays arguing with my girlfriend and just being an arse and you just just like that was it man just just a spiritual awakening man it's like I had a really good thing that I can't go on like this you know I wanna be a role model to my boys you can tell your father you can tell your boys anything but you gotta lead by example right and that's the way it is I knew that going forward I wanted to get fit again healthy fit and basically come to terms with my losses come to terms with my losses my father come to terms with the losses of my mum so I'm trying to move forward with my life and be happy at the end of the day people worry about fucking money too much there's fame at the end of the day you realize that you come in with the world with nothing you leave with nothing that's it you can't take anything with you man but what you can do is make a blueprint make a legacy and touch as many people as you can and that's what I wanna do and whether it's been a boxing or I don't know I'm 15 next year so I'm looking forward to the future I don't know what the future holds positive and and just move forward and try and be happy you just gotta be a role model not just for yourself but for your kids people who's watching you your legacy's there forever that can never be touched for your kids to then see you winning world titles going to Americans smoking to Americans to then see you maybe struggling the person who's an addict or the person who's battling everything has that effect on them as well you don't just destroy yourself you destroy everybody else at fucking track to make you feel better because when I was going through my journey when I was line after line and partying shagging everything Joe everybody was to fucking blame everybody was to blame it's always somebody else's fault it's you that's here nobody forces me to take lines nobody was forcing me to gamble or place joints smoke joints but I done it because I was unhappy I done it because I was miserable I done it because I was depressed so everybody that's battling or over drinking or over eating taking drugs you're depressed no matter what way you look at it you're scared of reality you can't handle reality you can't handle the pain so what I see is weakness why because I was weak and then you start making those adjustments and changes you start going fuck me the scary thing about change Joe is when I started changing my conscience grew every girl I fucked over every relationship not really seen the kids the way I should be and your conscience grows then you become because we're all sensitive beings we know we're doing wrong but sometimes you just you can't help contain yourself with doing bad shit and that's the scary part when you start doing the changes then you now we're at the stage where I clean and healthy and we're seeing the world differently and now we can make the changes from now to then generate for a better future for those people around us who deserve a better life and I met one of your sons today man he's fucking great shape I spoke to Joe a couple of times as well on Twitter another great kid that you've raised great sons what else can you wish what else do you need in life so you're already winning Joe you've already your legacy lives forever that's never going to be touched your sons are fucking healthy boom life's complete everything else that you do in your life is a bonus not the dark stuff because I just make you a miserable bastard and just hate in life plans now for joker's aggy for the future you're now making adjustments to then go you know what life's not over yes I've got some loss in pain but you know what that just makes you has the wrong character once you start dealing with it you don't learn the pain's always going to be there Joe what happens is you learn how to deal with it you learn how to deal with the bullies you learn how to become one of the best fighters ever everything's about a learning curve every day as a school day you learn you grow and you go you know what it's pain but you just kick on and move from it plans now bro let's take a day of the time like I said you know it's this gym I'm not going to get back I'm not going to get back in the boxing where it's going to be managing training making another world champion helping kids coming through helping kids to find because boxing is tremendous to take people off the street I'm waiting man just things are going to happen like I said this gym now the boys love it like I said you know yeah potentially get back in the boxing where is kick some ass in the exhibition or get my ass kicked in the exhibition who cares or manage you know I had my manager's license a few years ago but dad got ill so I didn't do it in the past the old top fighters asked me to train them but I think the thing is that boxing is my love no matter where else I try boxing is always what's made me happy it's made me who I am it's given me a fantastic life and I love to you know in the future give my experiences and my knowledge on to where the fight is because it's still there maybe my left hand is not as good but I still got it up here man sometimes taking that break having your old time highs in life to then having your old time lows to then understanding you start appreciating life one going you know what let's go I believe you will train world class fighters I believe you will have titles in here from other fighters but that's just down to you once you get that spark back you realise you might even want to fucking fight again like Roy Jones' is fucking fighting he won a world title three four years ago did he not he won a title just a few years I think that's Hopkins Hopkins like 16 that's unbelievable there's always a fight on the dog man that was at any fights Joe you would have loved to have had any name over the years I don't know what it's people ask me that question I do things like it's just it's hard to say obviously Steve Collins was champion he would be nice to box Steve Collins he would be nice to fought the guys I fought when they were champions I just lost their titles but you know what I can't really complain I feel like what can they say I can't complain I'm glad I signed with Mickey Dabb Taylor for 300 pound a week I don't turn back things I made mistakes we all made mistakes with humans but at the end of the day thank God I've not only been able to be a world champion for as long but to be able to share their moments with my father in the corner you know it's I'm more than blessed and it's you know maybe it's took a while to realise that and they suppose my children are blessed I just want to be able to share the experiences I've had in the future but I suppose at the moment it's all about getting offy getting fit again losing a bit of weight and you know living life that's why I think exercise is key because you were exercising every day once you stop exercising now just because your boxing career is over it doesn't mean you stop exercising because then that's when the demons kick in that's when all the negative thoughts kick in because you're not getting the serotonin the endorphins and all the fuel good factors that cold shower before the racing fight I mean it changed your whole mindset you need to get your Nicole water if I can go water I wasn't jumped in the plunge pool once in my life I was like I can't water I jumped straight back going honestly one last question my brother for anybody watching that's making through a struggle just now in life what advice would you give for them just to well if you can't get help just read just try to it's difficult one try not to past try not to resentment try not to slide drift try not to drift so easy to drift just there's always somebody out there to help me personally just living in the moment I think we spend too much time thinking too much of the future and too much of the past and that they worry and exercise and eat well and don't drink don't smoke weed don't smoke weed yeah but Joe for coming on today and telling your story I thoroughly enjoyed it you're an absolute legend for being so open and honest about your own battles and demons this will help a lot of people as well but in the boxing world your legacy will live forever it will still be here just a little bit your shoulder you'll feel their presence I know people might think that shit's weird but you know yourself you know that you're always here you're always supported you're always protected but going forward for the future I can't wait to see what you bring man because I've got a good feeling big things are going to happen but just keep fighting a good fight brother and stay strong thank you