 Muzz Teray wants you armed, trained, and ready to make peace. If you are not fighting to defend life that's in imminent danger, you're a life liberty or pursuit of happiness and property, right? You probably shouldn't be fighting. Teray, a Philadelphia native, runs the Solutionary Center in the neighborhood of North Philly, a place for locals to learn firearms, skills, and safety, to avoid and de-escalate conflicts, and to pick up other life skills, including first aid, yoga, and phlebotomy. We hear a lot of people say, if your communities, these communities, would just pull themselves up by the bootstraps. Okay, this is the bootstraps. Teray is a hardcore libertarian, founder of the gun rights group Black Guns Matter and supporter of the Mises Caucus that recently took control of the libertarian party. He told us that libertarians can improve their outreach in urban America by getting behind spokespeople with deep connections to the people living there. And an intuitive understanding of their needs and concerns. People like him. The reason set down with Teray for a wide range of conversation about guns, liberty, crime, and justice. You pick a day, I'm gonna give you my direct number. We use the space for free. It ain't no charge. No doubt. I appreciate you. Same here. So we're sitting here together at the Solutionary Center in Philadelphia. Tell me about what happens here. A little bit of everything. We, you can't say you want to do community development and not have a plan to develop the community. And a lot of times I get it in this internet age. We do a lot of things remote. Can't teach you how to sell remotely. I mean, you probably could learn some stuff, but hands on direction. You know, when you're talking about the communities that are impacted by all of the silly shit that we see, you got to be hands on. Or it helps to be more hands on. So the Solutionary Center, we do conflict resolution, de-escalation, firearms training, Spanish, phlebotomy, we got plumbing coming, you know. Anything that, you know, we hear a lot of people say, if your communities, if these communities would just pull themselves up by the bootstraps, okay, this is the bootstraps, you know. And then the irony is after you start doing stuff like this, I'm just waiting to get called like a racist and get waiting. I'm waiting to be called like, oh, it's not inclusive enough. When I'm just doing the stuff. But hopefully we'll get that popular to get hated on that way. You know what I'm saying? But that's what we do at the center, man. We are a location that if you can teach something and you want to teach a free class, the space is available to you. If you want to learn something and you don't know if we have the class there yet, you can, hey, we're interested in this. Can you set up a class for that? And everything's free here. All of the money that we've raised over however many years, we've given it away. And that's not just the Solutionary Center, but also with Black Guns Matter, we want to remove the financial barrier entry. And if we can do this effectively and efficiently in Philadelphia, there's no reason that some of the rich folks that's going to watch this can't say, hey, I want you to do this in Chicago. I want you to do this in Detroit. And then we can franchise, for lack of a better term, our ability to solve problems, to be solution. So yeah, what is, if you had to boil down the mission statement of the Solutionary Center, what are you trying to accomplish? Save the Republic. That's ambitious. Yeah. When you look at, let's take the last two years. We are in a democratic city. The Republican leadership here does nothing. The developers have done a job at developing, but they have their own different interests. When you look at the cities that are impacted the most by the lack of liberty, there's no answers, and they damn near lead the charge. They damn near are the people saying, this is how we're going to do it. We're going to use the heavy hand of the state to overreach into your individual liberties. And okay, if that actually turned out, not okay, but if that actually turned out to be better for cities, we would see it. It's not the case. When we started doing the work in Black Guns Matter, we only did conflict resolution and firearm safety in Philadelphia. That year, I think was 2016, when stats came out, Philly had the lowest violent crime it had since like 1979. There's something to be said there. But just firearms ownership and conflict resolution is not enough. What are the skill sets that we can give the community, buy the community and afford the community to generate better economics for themselves, to generate a better social interaction amongst the people, to generate a reduction in crime, right? And there's going to be spikes in everything. However, this has to be the solution. Now, why is that tie into the overall mission of saving the Republic? All of the big cities that have these problems, that the politicians are horribly uninformed about their actual job, they're not presenting any solutions, we cannot rely on the state to solve that. We literally, the people, have to do it. Individual donations, collective work together, all while respecting the individual's rights. When this becomes super successful, and in most of the major cities, the people will choose differently. And if the people are choosing differently and they're informed about civics, the process, if they're politically active, not just every two, four years. If they're socially empowered and politically astute, we save the Republic. If we do not, I think people need to really recognize that America cannot be here the way that we're used to it being. And if you're looking at the inflation, not even just hyperinflation, damn, there's stagflation. If you look at these things now, we are not going in a positive direction. We're not. Now, it's easy for me to say, well, that's the politician's fault. And on one level, they got to take accountability for that. But what about the people and their accountability? Not just for allowing it to happen, but what are you going to do to apply a solution so this doesn't happen anymore? So it is a lofty goal, but it's doable. So you're seeking, you're helping people to find practical solutions to everyday problems in their lives or resolving conflicts. You said conflict resolution is a big part of this. Black Guns Matter was the organization you started back in 2016. And so firearms training is a big part of this. Why are firearms training and conflict resolution kind of fundamentals that you're building upon here? Well, I can teach anybody how to shoot basically, right? That's not the most difficult thing in the world. But teaching or even how to fight, yeah. But more importantly, teaching somebody why they're fighting, which means why you should not be fighting. If you are not fighting to defend life that's an imminent danger, you're a life, liberty or pursuit of happiness and property, right? You probably shouldn't be fighting. And generally, most of the reasons why people are shooting each other in my city have nothing to do with life, liberty, pursuit of happiness and or property. It's ego. You stepped on my Yeezy's. That's stupid. That's nothing. So as a firearms owner, I always got to be the adult in the room all the time. I got a cannon on me everywhere I go, everywhere. So those rounds don't go back into barrel. And if you're making this decision to do something of that nature, it needs to be a slam dunk that you can justify why I did it to protect life. If not, me and my community are the ones who are going to fight. Me and my community are going to advocate that you have your day in court. You have a trial by a jury of your peers and we want you to go to jail. That is a repetitive line that I use consistently. We want you to go to jail for violating someone's highest property, their body, creating an actual crime. So you can't ask someone to do a thing and not provide the space or the resources for them to practice it. So if I want to lower the violent crime in my city, let's say by 25%, I have to create the space and the resources for them to come learn how to do it. And some of the younger guys, I have to create the space for them to even know that that's not even a viable option before they got to reverse anything. Let's raise them the proper way. So you can't have really one without the other. And then that firearms conversation and conflict resolution will lead you into so many other areas. Because again, it cannot just be firearms. Conflict resolution is the key. But the firearm is in protection of these immediate threats to life. How are you able to build on your life? The firearm is how we protect the equity that we've built up. But if this person doesn't even feel like they've built anything of value in their life because they have no competency, they have no skill sets, society's telling them that all they can do is sell drugs, play basketball or rap, whatever, be a rock star. That's not the case. So we got to live and lead by example. And starting from firearms ownership and conflict resolution, it takes us into all of the other areas of human activity. Could you give me a sense of what skills you're imparting here? When it comes to something like conflict resolution, what's some practical advice that you typically dispense to people of how to de-escalate a situation instead of making it worse? So two things. We work with a lot of guys that I've known King Erna. He's a huge on YouTube. Dude's done a lot of state and fed time, you know. I know how it feels to be caged in. I know how it feels to be indicted and you want to... First of all, that guy's been in. He knows that you probably are not built for that. So we work with a lot of those guys that are now working with younger groups of men. But when we do those types of classes and we say to a young person, hey, come right here. I want you to give me your phone. You're going to go in the bathroom for 20 minutes. So no phone, there's no books, just you in the bathroom. You can take a nap. You can do push-ups. If there's some food in there, you can eat it. You can use the bathroom if you want to. You can drink water. You can have whatever you want other than outside contact and distractions while you're in that bathroom for 20 minutes. They come out and they feel as if... We're talking about 13, 14 year olds. Yo, this was the longest 20 minutes I've ever had in my life. Right? It's just you dealing with you. Then when we say to that young person, it's literally an example that we use. If you kill somebody in the state of Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania has historically the largest amount of juvenile lifers. If you are in the hole for 23 hours of a day and come out for hours, a little bit of rec and exercise, you were in there for 20 minutes. Can you handle 23 hours of that for the rest of your life or sizeable portion of it? You have to package to the young people the opposite of what leftist media narratives are telling them. And I hate using these leftist right terms, but I have to create a distinction. Media will have them believe in television or video games that you just shoot the person and you might get shot, you might die. Or the reality, which is you may get caught. And as a Pennsylvania resident, where we have the most juvenile lifers, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. That's the other side of the game. Terrey drove us through the neighborhood where he grew up on one of his recruiting drives for the Solutionary Center. Getting people to show up is the first step towards teaching them about the virtues of libertarianism. One of the people he encountered said he had recently been shot, lost his son to a shooting, and was interested in learning more about self-defense. We not carrying guns and taking these classes just because we out here trying to wow, we actually trying to like defend our life. Like this ain't like it's just like we just hang because we think the gun is cool. Like the gun is no different than a fucking hammer on myself at the court. Right. Yeah, that's damn, that's wow, bro. Damn, my condolences, bro. That shit is wow. Gun control advocates say that their logic there is like, if you give people more people more guns, it's just asking for problems because there's more likelihood that if some sort of confrontation or conflict occurs, someone's going to have a gun and that's going to just, the inevitable result is more guns, more gun crime. So three things there. First, imagine the level of entitlement that an American public servant has to think that they get to decide who has a firearm in America. The level of entitlement of if we allow you, fuck you. This place was built, I live in Philadelphia. I live in rebel city. I live in the birthplace of America. This entire place was founded upon and I'm the black dude saying this and clearly the founders had a contradictions with liberty and enslaving people. So if I can say it, everybody else can say it. We are in the place that said, we will fucking shoot you if you violate our independent right to life, liberty to pursuit of happiness and property. Now imagine that a public servant in Philadelphia saying if we allow you to have a firearm, it's only going to turn, that's almost like saying you blacks because Philadelphia is 60, 70% black and brown. You blacks have a genetic predisposition to kill each other. That's one. Two, I would even be along with that goofy ride if the other data didn't exist, where all of the other areas that have respect for the Second Amendment and firearms ownership has exploded. We're in a 38th month in a row for years now that over a million firearms have been purchased in America. So all of these other places that firearms ownership is spiking, for some reason, those places don't have the same levels of violent crime. Third thing, it's not the state's responsibility and they are not the authority. They are only there to fight to secure our individual rights. That is it. Let's see what they fucked up. They let people like me get high when I was in high school and go study all that stuff. When I would be down at City Hall. When I would go look at Benjamin Franklin who got high. I believe it. Legit. These dudes had hemp farms. So the problem is it wasn't just hemp. It was a lot of shit. The problem is now people like me, I'm American as fuck. You made me this way. And now I can translate this to our people. Philadelphia was rebel city. Fuck you, bro. William Penn said, we don't have to create so much violence with the Lenape people, the indigenous people will work with them. Philadelphia was supposed to be a beacon, a shining light of liberty. That's why it's hard for me to move from here. These public servants have forgotten their position and they not fit to serve. There's now this what would have become known as the progressive prosecutors. Larry Krasner is the DA here. He's facing impeachments as like the crime rates have gone up in recent years, the violent crime and property crime. What has your reaction been to Larry Krasner's attempts to reform the criminal justice system here in Philadelphia? There haven't been no attempts. In regards to these progressive regressive spelling, words and cantations, they are not progressive. There's no progress. I'll say what I agree with with Larry Krasner. Okay. Because I want to maintain objectivity. Okay. Bail is ransom. Bail is ransom. He's done cash bail reform. He's done cash bail reform. I am a fan of if I have not been proven responsible for a violent act proven, I shouldn't have to pay a ransom to get out. I have not been proven to do anything wrong. I've been accused. I get to have my day in court. Right. So I'm not opposed on certain areas. I was at a town hall meeting a few years ago. Larry Krasner told me himself out of his own mouth. He won't remember it. My good brother, Gabriel Bryant, was a part of that town hall. And I asked him, I said, this was years ago. I said, we're doing work with conflict resolution, so forth and so on. Is there any way that the city and the DA's office could work with Black Guns Matter? He said, and I'm a paraphrase, I don't think education or people with guns are the problem. I think guns are the problem. So this tells me that you have a closed-minded approach and it's a contradiction. You're saying guns are the problem. But the bad person that is charged with doing the violent crime, actual crime, not like he had some weed, right? Yeah. This person is charged with an actual violent crime. You're going to allow that to be pleaded down or your office is going to allow that to be pleaded down and then you want to add more restrictions. It is a walking contradiction. That's why you're seeing vast increases in safe and responsible firearms owner in Philadelphia. Their contradiction is exposed. And we're going to continue to expose that contradiction until they change their perspective when trying to alienate our human right to defend itself. The data shows that Krasner has been prosecuting far fewer firearms charges than past DA's have. And at the same time, violent crime has gone up. Aren't you kind of on the same page about just carrying a firearm should not be a felony offense? That's a great context. I'm not opposed to you not charging. That's not a crime. Me carrying a knife, a Rambo knife is not a crime. If I do the wrong thing with that Rambo knife, it's a crime. But a lot of it is people violating their probation or their convicted felons and they're carrying and that is the crime. Like should that be a crime? None of those things should be crimes. Okay. Article one, section 21 of the Pennsylvania Constitution says, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be questioned. Questioned. Don't ask me a question about me carrying a firearm. So what you're objecting to is somebody commits a violent crime and they have a firearm on it. Maybe they didn't use the firearm and he's dropping. I'm saying if you're using that firearm to violently charge someone, charge them for I used a firearm to rob, rape or kill. Right. Even if they didn't fire it, they used it. If you're using, if you're harming, crime has to create a victim. If, bro, it's on you, you going to do dirt. So you feel that the Krasner has made these reforms from the DA's office, which are about kind of the over sentencing problem that might exist in some cases. But he hasn't seriously tackled the kind of, you know, that they talk about systemic problems, but they're not really willing to address it. The systemic, because I'm not, because I'm not a fan of too much social work, too much. Okay. But the systemic issue is the most systemically racist thing in America for black people is gun control. Could you talk about that a little bit more? Yeah. You might not know. If you don't know gun control was the concept was literally started. Hey, we don't want those blacks niggers. We don't want those people to have the means to defend themselves. Don't let them have it. As we just saw in New York state overturning those, oh, you can't carry a gun on you. That literally had roots in the racist practice of gun control. So I'm not, again, I'm not advocating for Krasner or any of these guys to say, hey, you should be charging those guys just for having the gun. No, I'm saying there's a line. The line is you use a firearm to shoot someone. We got it on camera. We have to prove that it's you. Let's charge it. Right. I'm here all day for that. Yeah. But you're going around, running around. Oh, he had a gun on. I don't care. I don't care. Listen, me where any citizen of any background loses me is you use this tool to create an actual victim. If I ran for mayor of Philadelphia, it would be very clear. We and my law enforcement gang are going to chase robbers, rapists, unjustified killers. We don't want you to sign up for the police department because we want you to write tickets for tint on your windows. And thank God they took that off like a year or two ago. We want to tackle actual crime. We want to, we don't want to tackle you because you, this person wanted to buy weed and this person had the weed. We don't want to send that person to jail because they're selling Lucy or even worse, choke them to death on the street because they're selling Lucy cigarettes. Right. But the problem is these guys don't go deep enough. And the reason why they don't go deep enough is because of the lack of information, meaning the public servants, the lack of information. They're not very smart people as well as even if they are smart and have informed themselves, they're just going to placate to their base. So if they were to dig deeper about what's going on here in Philadelphia right now, what do you think they would find in terms of why is this happening? Why is there a murder spike in this city? What do you think is going on? They're not getting what black guns matter. They're not coming to the solutionary center. They're not putting the resources where it needs to go. Why has no city council person been here? Why has, again, Krasner told me. Oh, the gun is the problem, not the people. On his recruiting drive, Thorey encountered a small business owner, skeptical about teaching more people how to use guns in a city plagued by violence. What you saying is predator to put more guns in people's hands? If they trained and responsible with it. What about these kids that's running around and doing nothing? They can't even buy guns lawfully. But by the end of their conversation, he was more open to the idea. But if we ain't educating them on what not to do and what to do. So if I come to this class, how do you get a commitment to my life? We walk you right through the process of getting your permit. We show you how to do it online. Yes. Our location. If you want to come teach a class for free, use the space, set it up, teach something at the club. If you want to do a basic class on barbershop, you pick a day. I'm going to give you my direct number is we use the space for free. It ain't no charge. You mentioned this data of firearm sales going up across the nation. And a lot of that has been among first time buyers as the founder of Black Guns Matter. How do you account for that? What do you think is driving this new demographic? Not just me. I'm just a regular high school dropout. The tweets exist. I said this in 2015. We are going to make the black community be the largest gun buying demographic in America. Set it. We did it with less than half a million dollars. We gave it away. And I want to be clear because I know I say start saying these numbers and people think like, I got a half a million sitting in my back pocket. We gave the money away. And they use that to buy firearms. They used it. They used it. We used it to shift culture. Yeah. We used it to go to all of these different places to say, Abram, you noticed as you're right too. 2016, 2017, I was in damn near two cities a week. Look at the spike. These are things that manifestation, spelling. And what do you hope will be the ultimate outcome? What will be the benefit of that? We're going to save America. Black people always save America. I know that's just what it is. Black people, look, the indigenous people, black, way back in the day, fun fact. Negro was a distinction that was made for indigenous people and black Americans. Just everybody can look it up. When the colonizers, and I don't say that in a rude way, colonizers, this is what happens, bro. It's descriptive. When they came here during the starving times and indigenous people, when they was like digging up like their own dead horses and family members and eating them. And the indigenous people was like, look at these crazy motherfuckers. Come on, man, we'll help you out. We indigenous people saved America. When you want to fast forward to any war that America has participated in, the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, the This War, Vietnam, black people was there. Black people are going to save America from Joe Biden. You think so? Okay. We got tricked. He's weakened at Bernie's, bro. So black people is like, yo champ, we might need Donny back in there. I'm hearing the hood. Now I'm not saying as an advocate for Donny and all of that. I'm just saying I'm paying, the streets is talking. So black people are going to be heard and say, that ain't it, bro. You cut HBCU funding after lying about what you were going to give them. You literally re-upped on the most racist practice in America, gun control, as the black people started buying more guns than ever. You said, we're going to send you to jail for 10 years. Fortunately, the Supreme Court was like, what? You are bugging, right? You're still continuing this. You speak to black people as if you literally own them. If you don't vote for me, you ain't black. What type of fucking, it's amazing. It's the level of entitlement and audacity. Mind you, mind you. You're the same guy that crafted the criminal legislation, criminal, to send many of these black men to jail in the first place. Drug war, three strikes. That was you, bro. Black people are going to have to save America from Joe Biden. Then black people are going to have to become libertarians and save America from America. Well, tell me about that because you said earlier, the streets are talking and you sent out a tweet a while ago, inviting reason to cover what you called the rising interest in libertarianism in urban America. Yeah. What'd you mean by that? So let's go through a list of prominent folks of different backgrounds, some of them black, some not. That are now like, they're not Democrats, but some of them are. But we're prominent Republican figures. My good buddy Ian Smith, he's not black. He's white. He fought against the COVID regime over there in Jersey, right, with his gym. He's seen a weakness at a Republican party. People want to take a mask or a jab, they should have the right to or not. And he saw that. Major Williams ran for governor, came in eighth, seventh or eighth, understands up against the mighty Gavin Newsom, who also told everybody else their restaurants had to close down, but his winery and restaurant stayed open. I was there for that. Yeah. Did I'm saying? Yep. Black financial expert, PhD, really smart dude, Dr. Boyce Watkins, who's like, in our conversation, and then it's like, bro, I think I'm libertarian. I'm like, you absolutely are libertarian. Let's talk about for 20 years, big boy from outcast has been a libertarian and nobody really knew about it. Yeah. The reason why people aren't more open to libertarianism is twofold. Republicans and Democrats, they got real non-partisan to make sure that the libertarian party didn't look like a viable situation as one. And they did that by highlighting the goofballs that happen to be identified as libertarian. And two, just shutting them, excuse me, still one, shutting out any conversation about libertarianism. And that somewhat falls on our part because we didn't have cool libertarians that spoke the language. Like this is what I loved about President Obama. That dude was cool, man. Never mind the fact that he bombed a bunch of black nations. We'll just put that to the side for a while. But man, was he cool, right? From a PR perspective, you know what I mean? We failed to put our cool guys up front and our cool guys and women were like, eh, right? And a part of that is for number two. You had clowns like Nick Sarwark running the space. Goofballs. Okay. Goofballs. Well, what? Goofball. Okay. Well, what do you think that the past of the libertarian party and just libertarian movement more broadly has been missing? You mentioned- Black people. Okay. But why is that? Like what has been missing in terms of, you say there's this natural constituency out there that should be able to be reached better? What has been missing in either the way the message has been conveyed or the way the messengers have conveyed it? Both. Okay. You got a lack of cool dudes that's like, I mean, even me, I was just like, I'm a libertarian, but damn, guys, right? And this is the part where I give all credit due to a dude that tirelessly and humbly did the work. Mike Heis. He didn't pay me to say this. The founder of the Mises Caucus. Founder of the Mises Caucus. He just did the work. Mike is the reason why I ran for city council. Okay. So you're a fan of the Mises Caucus. What is it that you like about their approach to things? They understand culture. Was it Breitbart? Politics is downstream from culture, right? Trump understood culture. I mean, his mean tweets got him into, I mean, other things, obviously, but got him into a presidency. And this is not, again, an advocacy for Trump or I don't know what he's doing. My point in saying that is the new technology is we can get a meme out to get a concept to people a lot faster. Now we have guys like a Dave Smith, like Justin Amash, like maybe a Tulsi Gabber, right? And women, not just guys that are willing to say, now we cool, we're polished, and we know what we're talking about. We're not running around with like, you know, and even me, like I might not make the cut in that sense because I'm too aggressive. I'm not polished enough. But the other question becomes is that what America needs? And so the libertarian party in the Mises Caucus has a grit about it that the average everyday American, especially urban Americans, if we just say, and this isn't pandering, we don't want the war on drugs. It has disproportionately impacted lower class, black, brown, white, whatever communities. It should stop. Okay, guys can see, drugs won. The war on drugs, drugs won. Let's let it go, right? Talking about gun control, we're not with that. You ask any urban white of any background, you say, hey, do you want the government more involved in your life? Or do you want more restrictions on government in alignment with the thing, the way that this thing is supposed to go in the first place? Everybody in the hood is going to say, yes, we want the limited government. And I say this not as a disparagement to any other caucus, to people that dislike the Mises Caucus, I want to build coalition. You can completely disagree with me on that front. Where can we get some work done together? How do you think they've been doing so far in terms of building that coalition since they took over in Reno, which we were both there for? Sidebar, my speech in Reno was absolutely lit. It was, and I want to get to that in a second because I want to show some of your speech and ask you to explain it to our audience a little bit more. But first, I am curious how you think things have been going so far? I think it's been going good in terms of addressing the attacks. I think they're doing a very good job of handling the haymakers that's getting thrown their way. And a lot of it is not warranted. I'm the black dude saying, gun control is racist. I point out actual racism, not like, oh, he wore a MAGA hat. I don't care about that. But somehow the dudes that have helped me at certain points that LP National under goofy leadership didn't, somehow that dudes the racist or those guys and women are the racist, but not the people that openly lied about me. So I think the Mises Caucus has done a good job of even weathering that storm from people that lost. You lost, bro. There's something to be said for an entire sweep of delegates across the nation. That means the people in your town were like, bro, we need something new. Instead of fighting against that, challenge us on a battlefield. Challenge us on a battlefield of ideas. I think the challenge hasn't really come for the Mises Caucus. There were a couple of articles that came out recently critical of them. One was pointing out that some of the fundraising numbers have been down and also that some of their state chapters have disaffiliated. Do indicators like that worry you at all in terms of the growth? So let's give an example. I think in the first week after the Mises Caucus took over, they raised like $240,000 or something like that. I don't want to name call them. I just want to say, bro, listen, let's just try it this way. We cannot deny that there's not a renewed vigor and interest. I haven't even started really flexing libertarianism. I'm taking over the term BLM. It no longer stands for Black Lives Matter. It stands for Black Libertarian Movement. You laugh. But remember in 2016, the tweet is out there. I said, black people will be the largest gun buying demographic in America. And I could have got more numbers if Biden didn't already have black dudes being felons. Because the largest gun buying demographic amongst black people is black women because they're not felons. So let's foreshadow a bit. Come back and like 10 years later, I'm like, oh, shit, all of the black people are libertarians now. So I haven't even really flexed yet. However, those challenges in regards to their people disassociating, I welcome it. You have the right to disassociate. I'm going to say, hey, let's stay and continue to play ball together. I know that you're mad. Take a minute. Let's figure out the areas where we can work together and any type of relationship. Brothers are going to fight. Sisters are going to fight. We can fight in the house. We can disagree, tooth and nail, knock and drag each other down. But when we go outside, there's an entire gang called the state that does not give a fuck about Prague, Mises. Right. We are the responsible adults in the room that have to save the constitutional republic that we identify as America. But in terms of reaching new people, new demographics, building the new BLM, black libertarian movement, do you think that any of the messages coming out of the Mises Caucus are going to be a challenge for that? I want to read an excerpt from one recent article on the Hill. Andrew Koppelman wrote an article and he said, only a few years after its greatest triumph, the libertarian party is collapsing, torn apart by an insurgency of alt-right sympathizers with racist tendencies. Libertarianism, the idea that state power must be absolutely minimized, relies on ideas of individual rights that seem flatly inconsistent with racism. And yet, libertarian rhetoric has always had powerful attractions for those who want to, who wanted to resist racial equality. How is that possible? There is in fact a connection, but it is one of psychology and political history rather than logic. Blah, blah. What do you think about that? Blah, blah, blah. Remember when, like, Charlie Brown, when they would listen to the teacher? Blah, blah, blah. I've heard this a thousand times. Got it. Show me. What do you think about the ways you've heard libertarians talk about race? I don't really hear them talk about race. Should they? One relevant. If I say, as a libertarian, gun control is racist, I have to quantify that statement. I have to qualify it. How? What do you mean? You're just throwing accusations towards gun control people? I have to prove it. I have to say, well, black codes, slave codes, Jim Crow, blah, blah, blah, blah. I have to qualify it. So it's, we shouldn't pretend like we aren't allowed to talk about race in a salad, right? The tomatoes, like when people say, like, oh, I don't see color. Yes, you do. These are the same people that say they don't see color. And it shouldn't be about color, but then they'll be wearing a white lives matter shirt. Even if it's always just to own, blah, blah, blah, blah. You see color, or you don't. We got to stop doing these massive overcorrections. Everything was like super racist. And I was like, oh, nothing's racist. Well, nothing is race at all. We're post-racial America. Like, stop it, bro. That's not what makes America America. It's like, yo, I'm going to go down to the Mexican spot. They, they have the best tequila. Nah, bro, my man, I'm going to get an Irish coffee. He the chilele's is lit. Oh, well, those are two different. Well, I went to Irish coffee on a warm morning. Right? Just appreciate it. The current leadership of the libertarian party has declared, you know, wokeness, the idea of wokeness as kind of public enemy number one. They go hard against things like critical race theory, gender ideologies, also wrapped up in that. What do you think about that? Should libertarians be focused on that as an issue? So if it's this fake overcorrection, no. But if you're acknowledging the disparities and like, yo, a few days ago it was like Columbus Day. Bro, that's not what happened. Dude didn't do the weighted. Did he open up some trade routes and did he lay the groundwork for the transatlantic slave trade in capitalism in America? Yes, absolutely. Was he like, hey, guys, here's a cornucopia with fruits and vegetables. Fuck no, that's not what happens. It's a fairy tale version. It's a fairy tale. So if it's this fake overcorrection to hide the atrocity, no. What about talking about systemic racism in things like the criminal justice system or the drug war? Yeah, that's legit. There's no. I don't think that they were saying, hey, guys, just don't talk about it at all. Yeah. It was it was saying, let's focus on liberty. And when these conversations come up, let's address them as such. You're not going to get, I did Dave Smith's podcast years ago, right? And he literally was like, yeah, black people should be like historically, black people should be the most armed people in America. And I don't know why they bought line hook, lying the sinker on that, the anti-gun thing. Yeah. That's not a pander. That's not. And I think him as a Jewish dude, like he might know what his lineage may know a little bit something about suffering because of their background. I think that what happens is the leadership was trying to say, we're not going to do this overcorrecting fake pander thing just because we're trying to chase lefties. Right. That's the difference. Well, that's divide kind of opened up over the Black Lives Matter movement because the Sarwark faction like very much aligned themselves with that cause. There was the No, they didn't. There's kind of the infamous tweet of like, it's not enough to be racist. You have to be anti-racist, which I somewhat agree with the sentiment of what was trying to be said. Okay. And what was wrong with the execution? What should work in alignment with that? Okay. Like when I'm critical of my homies, like when I'm critical of hoods across America, where is my work at? I don't want to hear corn balls on the conservative, you know, platforms talking about Black conservatives. Oh, the Blacks, the Blacks. You don't do a fucking thing in the community. Shut the fuck up. No participation. I question your right to speak, not to rob your voice, but I'm going to be critical of your voice. What have you done? I can't talk about Black people arming themselves and conflict resolution until I've done the work. So we're not saying pander. So like, look, I'm not racist, but we are saying let's use the facts. Let's use as libertarians, we have not set up a war on Black people. And that's leftist media narrative. We as libertarians, we have not set up gun control in your communities for hundreds of years to stop you from having a basic human right. You explaining that is not you pandering. It's going, I'm actively showing you that they are lying. So I get the sentiment of what that tweet meant. I get it. But the question becomes, when you say that, are you doing a panda because you're just in alignment with the BLM Marxist, whatever. And you're just kind of like bending the knee to that rage mob. These conversations are far overdue, but they're nuanced and contextual conversations. The problem is most people won't say, here's why I agree with that and here's where I disagree with that because they've committed themselves to just one side. I'm not on any of these motherfuckers teams. I'm on Team USA. I was in Reno and you did give a quite fiery and interesting speech. I mean, I'm not just buttering your bread here. I think it was the most compelling speech of the whole event. That's saying a lot. Ron Paul was there. Yeah, I mean, that's the OG trip. With all respect to Ron Paul, I was, and so there was one excerpt I wanted to just, we'll probably play this. You're about to change America. That means you're the enemy of the state. I hear a lot of very spirited energy and that's good. That's cute. Pretty soon, the two wings of the bird that we are in are going to start dropping off bags of money to some of you. Some of you will be threatened. Some of you will be intimidated. Some of you are going to fold. I hope, pray, meditate that it's none of us. But my time in Philadelphia tells me that everybody with a gun is not a shooter. The challenge that I have for you, don't clap. The challenge that I have for you is to make everything that I'm saying wrong. Make it wrong that no one here folds. No, nobody folded. Maj was wrong. Make it wrong. What did you mean by that? It's already starting with those types of other articles. That's the beginning. If I can scare you by saying some bad stuff about you when you stop fighting, I don't have to do anything else. We have to be critical and guard the fire. Bags of money will be dropped off. This place is built on money and violence. Let's be clear. Are you speaking from experience, seeing this happen with others? No one's dropped the Illuminati bag of money off to me yet. I'm telling you guys, if you see me with a black and white Bentley Continental GT, it's the same car. Don't listen to me anymore. I've been compromised. I was wondering what all that weird symbology on the outside was. It's crazy, right? It's Egyptian. I just think that it's not for personal experience in the sense of someone has directly tried to get at me. The Libertarian Party is the third largest political party in America. You start effecting change. You're going to start effecting sentencing guidelines, people coming home from jail, ending the war state. We are talking about billions upon trillions of dollars that the people that's making them date a drug dealers. You're talking about Libertarian. You're talking about me getting kicked off of planes for not wearing a mask. You're talking about the real drug dealers, pharma. You're talking about the American people saying, we're going to choose to fall back and just focus on what we're focusing on, not warmongering, not forcing people to take drugs, not forcing people in the freest nation in the world, not being the largest prison population in the world as well. You start talking about these conversations. You're going to start talking about waking the dragons and the drug dealers up. There's also just the always electoral threat of people seeing, oh, the Libertarian is going to cost me this election and this state election or over here, and that incentivizes all sorts of sabotage. Cheaper for me to buy this guy off to bow out of the race. Let's head on with Bernie Sanders. Let's get him to bow out. Let me wrap up by asking this because we just went over some of the words of wisdom that you offered to the audience there in Reno. You're now talking to a slightly different audience, although there might be some overlap. You're talking to Libertarians watching this, but maybe some that are more skeptical of the Mises Caucus. You're becoming an increasingly prominent spokesman in the Libertarian movement. What is your closing message to a recent audience? If you completely don't like me, I told a donor to eat a dick. Did you get any more donations after that? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Because the donor actually wasn't that great of a donor. He was a dick. Why do I bring that up? If we say we want real authentic public servants, I want to serve. Whether it's a political seat or I just want to serve. With knowing history in here, we have African sculptures. We've got Chimetic, not Egyptian. Chimetic symbols all over the place. Powerful symbols. Men, women, equality. But I live here. I was born here. This place that we all live in and love is on the verge of a nuclear war. Like, I'm joking a lot. This interview is a laugh. We joke. We have genuine conversation. The reality though is we have allowed the state, meaning Libertarians, through our internecine rivalries, through our apathy, through our anger, dislike, whatever. Pour all of that dislike onto me. No problem. All I'll ask is this. Do you as a Libertarian know that we have one of the most viable solutions to save the place that we all live? I just ask that you figure out a space with your so-called Libertarian rival or adversary. Find one or two areas that you guys can work together to save this place. And whatever little bullshit beef we've had, it won't even matter. And I end that with the cherry on top saying, I apologize to you. Brothers fight in the house, but when we go outside, we have to fight against the state. Much trade. Thank you very much for talking with me. Thank you.