 before. We're just real fun. And welcome to Tuesday Tea. Thank you for joining us today. I'm here with the beautiful Michelle Griffin. And Michelle and I were just saying we haven't seen each other in a while, and we need to catch up. So we're going to do a little bit of a catch up right live here before your eyes. So if you are a fan of behind the scenes, you are definitely getting one today because Michelle and I have a lot to catch up on. But before we start gossiping and talking about all the things that we love to talk about, Michelle, I am so thrilled that you decide to do this yet again with me. So much fun the first time. And for people who didn't get a chance to meet you the first time, would you introduce yourself and what it is that you do? Absolutely. Thank you for having me on twice, Leanne. It's absolutely great to be here. I'm Michelle Griffin, obviously, as it says right in front. I'm a personal brand strategist just like Leanne. I work in the B2B professional services space where I spent all those years before. But right now that's what I do. I help B2B professionals, entrepreneurs, executives, build their personal brand. And I absolutely love helping people put themselves out there so they can share their message with more people. Yeah. And how we started or how we met is by putting ourselves out there via the clubhouse platform. That's how you and I first connected. So that's what we also need to catch up on, Michelle, is how we're going to elevate our clubhouse experience together. Did you bring your tea today by Michelle? I had it and it's like I already drank it. I had a client call before, honestly, and I drank it during that. I could go get it, but then that was goodbye TV. It's all good. Ironically, I probably had five cups of tea already a day. Have any more? No, you probably don't. Well, I am going to enjoy my tea today. In fact, I'm enjoying tea on the most perfect day. It's finally, finally cooling off here a little bit. So I feel like I can drink tea without guilt and I can wear sweaters without looking like an idiot. So I'm really happy that we've got some cooler fall temperatures, fall temperatures coming in. So well, one of the reasons I wanted to bring you back on is we have, well, we have shared loves about a lot of things, personal running clubhouse, but also about LinkedIn. And as everyone comes into the fall season, I feel a lot of people are talking about the to-do list for the fall, the back to school, the getting back onto LinkedIn and optimizing their LinkedIn experience. So I wanted to talk to you about LinkedIn because you, like me, we both believe strongly in the platform. We believe in its ability to connect people and give us an opportunity to be thought leaders. Tell me a little bit about your LinkedIn journey and what has brought you around to now being a LinkedIn advocate? Oh, absolutely. It changed everything for me, honestly. I left my longtime corporate job in marketing January 2020. And like many of us, I had been a member of LinkedIn since 08, 08. But I used it poorly. I was in events. And one of the things that connects is I was doing events and dealing a lot with hotels and event space and stuff like that, which is your former industry. But anyway, so I was using it incorrectly and just from running events. But anyway, so when I became my own business, I hopped on LinkedIn and commented and connected. But I was holding myself back. And it wasn't until December 31st because I saw all the people who were putting content out were the ones who were building their brands faster. Even though it's possible to just kind of do it with commenting and connecting, the trifecta and the better one is content. Anyway, so I decided to put myself out there and I started on just December 31st every day. I made this challenge. I love challenges. This is kind of a weird thing. And so I started the 365 challenge and there's a couple hundred people who started with me and it's on the honor system. I know for a fact there's about six or seven strong ones that I know that are out there all the time. And they are just completely overtaking it. Within a couple weeks or a month, I just put myself out there. I was meeting people, getting connections and just having opportunities come my way. And so I'm not special. Anyone can do this when they do it right. And so that's what I have put this LinkedIn as a platform and tool of choice in my personal brand space because I'm in B2B and professional services. We're all here. So one thing I do in a caution as great as LinkedIn is and we saw this, we can't put our eggs in one basket though. We can meet people and connect with them, but we need to bring them on our own platform. So I help people do that. And I'm a big avid on content because content is unlike someone who said, sorry, the sun's coming to my face, is someone who told me otherwise on my post today that content isn't currency online because trust is. And I agree with that. But content, how else do we build our brands online if we don't have content? I mean like our websites have content, our video, this is content. So content means a lot because that's how we connect with people, right? And that's what building a brand that's show up and as you are to help others in our own unique way. So that's why LinkedIn is a perfect place for that. No matter views or engagement or off, they're still here and it's still worthy and this is the best place to be. So does that answer your question a really long way? No, but that's what I love about, well about you, about people in our space is we can literally blab and babble about LinkedIn all day long because we can see the results from being on LinkedIn. And what I love about what you said is that consistency in creating content as a way to build your personal brand. And often you're right. Often we forget that that's such a big part of positioning ourselves as thought leaders is showing up to serve our community again and again and again. So our community members don't sit around going well where did she go? She was here, she was doing something and then now I can't find her anywhere. And no one can say that about you because you've done this 365 challenge and you show up consistently and you've seen your brand grow as a result. And if you wouldn't mind, I know you've mentioned the word challenge so I wanted to remind the readers or the viewers. I have a challenge going on right now. It's a five day challenge, not 365. That's doable. So if you're interested in a five days, five ideas LinkedIn challenge, everyone can go to liankholderwood.com forward slash LinkedIn challenge. And what it is, Michelle is looking at five of LinkedIn's most popular content formats. And in fact, I have you in mind obviously when I was writing this because you and I are big fans of the carousel post. And so one of the ideas that I teach other people to do in the challenge is to create a carousel post. So hopefully we'll start to see a few more of those popping up on LinkedIn. One thing you mentioned about showing up consistently is the people who do it and they seem to be the ones killing it on LinkedIn. Do you think there's room for people on LinkedIn to just create a profile and then kind of hide in the shadows? Do you think there's room for that? I mean, there's always room for everybody and it's a very supportive place. And you know, they say what two to only two to 3% post, but you know, it depends on your goals. But if you want to build that brand, you want more clients, you know, maybe I don't know, I mean, you can do anything. But if you want to see real traction opportunities, even if your employer to enhance your career showing up, stepping out is what people are going to see. And the funny thing you said is like you mentioned earlier, like the people who ended up, I know for a fact I can think like five or 10 people were super active at the beginning of the year and I saw them everywhere and they're gone. And it makes me sad because I love seeing them and they get busy or whatever. And I get it. I'm not advocating by doing this consistently that you should do it every day too because I think a break is huge. Find what works for you but make that frequency relate, you know, on a stable place and you're not burning out, but then you're not invisible either, you know. Yeah, you know, you raise a good point. You're right. We've had we've seen those people who have consistently shown up and then they did get that job that they were trying to apply for when they were showing up consistently. And then of course, we lose them. I see it quite often in in my industry for sure. But consistency to your point doesn't need to be once every day. Consistency can be once a week. Consistency can even be just a couple of times a month as long as you create the expectation from your community that you are still there and you're showing up. So I love that. Thank you so much for that. Now, I know you use LinkedIn as a big part of your personal brand, you know, whether you call that one of your brand pillars or, you know, it's just it comes out naturally when you're talking to clients. What made you decide to kind of put your stake in the ground and start to also provide training around LinkedIn? I guess just naturally because, you know, I'm in the personal branding space and it's the natural tool or platform. People would just come to me and ask me and I just love talking about it. So they just, you know, ask me about it. And I'll probably really stem last year, last fall I spoke at a business and leadership conference on it. And that was well received. And that was here locally, even though it was virtually, but, you know, there were 500 people from all over the US. So that gave me some exposure to and that just, you know, by creating that fantastic presentation and resource guides and stuff, I was like, I just love this place. I just, I guess I'm so excited about it because I know the possibilities are there for people. You know, you can't find that on all the platforms. I mean, you can, but the, you know, maybe chit-talk and stuff, but if in this space, if these are where your people are, and this is where, you know, your, your realm is, it's just a fantastic place, not because of clients opportunity. It's the community. I wake up every day, open up my LinkedIn and I'm excited to see people there. That's the one, the driving force by me. The community is everything for me. You know, everything else is just icing on the cake. Yes, it has brought me clients and so, but these people are like, you're my friends. I mean, you're in, you're in Canada and I'm in Florida. We would have never been a million years. Opposite ends of the continent. I know. I tell people that about my Florida friends. It's like, I can't be further away from you. Like, I really couldn't. How about our mutual friend, Michelle Raymond? Okay. She and I met last December. Yeah. She's in Australia. And she and I are, you know, we communicate probably once a day on what's happened stuff. You know, we've been friends since like December, you know, met in the comments. That's where I met her in the comments. Yeah, exactly. And that's where we tend to meet the people the most. Now, for people who are not like you and I and are on LinkedIn every day and we're starting to navigate a lot of the nuances, how can people get started on LinkedIn if they haven't been there for a while? And they're just not sure what their first step should be. Absolutely. I call this the baby step approach you just started the pyramid. Start by getting on, making sure your profile good. Start, you know, getting a fee on the feed, maybe liking, liking the first step, following, you know, following, connecting, commenting. You will, it's like going into a party or networking. You're not sure what it's going to be like. You hear it's great, but just go in there. Get a feel. You'll instantly get the feel the people are warm and friendly. They don't bite. You know, you'll learn a lot and it's a fast moving pace, but I promise you just observing you will learn so much. You know, I love that analogy and it's an analogy I use as well as it is a virtual networking party and you're going to find your people in that networking party. But before you start approaching everybody and trying to figure out who's who in the zoo, taking that step back and just kind of watching everything unfold and it'll become clear very soon where your people are at or the people that you want to start to meet on LinkedIn. So I love that analogy. So when people are getting started, I think we've mentioned that one mistake is just jumping in and just, you know, diving into the deep end without a life jacket and trying to do all the things. What are some other mistakes we should avoid when kind of getting started on LinkedIn? Well, I mean, depending, obviously, it all depends on your brand. I mean, your goals and stuff. You know, if you want to build that brand, know what you want to be known for. You know, I know some people don't really know and they just kind of come out and now some people say, oh, you should just write about anything and that's fine. You are very much there is no one, you know, no LinkedIn police is going to say, don't write about that except those Facebook police people. But that's another story for another day. But just whatever is comfortable for you. I mean, I do it from the standpoint of how do you build your brand? What are your expertise and what are your subject matter? But what importantly, do your people want to know about? And it makes it up with personal and professional, you know, make it show your personality, but also show your expertise and your knowledge to help others. I'm just here to help others. Like at the end of the day, I'm here to just give encouragement, you know, give help. And if that all comes together, I'm probably bad about selling myself on LinkedIn more, you know, I just feel like people come to me naturally because and other people too, because they know I'm here to help. And so they want more of that. Now, some other people take it more about harder sales. And when I say sales, I don't mean sales, like, that's the mistake. People like connect and try to sell you. I, you know, I'm talking about social selling relationship building. Yes, that is probably one thing people connect. And then even as far as sometimes putting connection requests, sell you and the connection requests, those don't get accepted by me. So just be a giver. That's all you have to do. Just be a giver. The law of reciprocity usually chimes in here and it works well, but he just show up as you and that's one thing. We all are scared when I deal with people and you probably do too. They're scared to show up because like, what do people think of me? You know, what do people, I don't have anything to say, but you know, the most important one is what do people think of me? Like your family or your coworkers or your previous industry, the fear judgment. It is, it gets people. It absolutely it does. And, and Michelle, as you know, we've, we have a clubhouse room. We meeting you and I and about 30 others have a clubhouse room daily about LinkedIn. And the Monday room that I typically help out with the moderation is all about that. It's all about the imposter syndrome and getting over those feelings of I'm not worthy to be in this space, whether it's LinkedIn or wherever else. And so we tackle those things. And we, we ask the tough questions, you know, and what I love about Roy, who ironically also an Australian moderates in the room, right? I mean, they're awesome. So Roy, who's a co-moderator with me on Monday, the one thing he says repeatedly and I, and I'm going to just get it tattooed on my arm one of these days is what is the worst thing that can happen? And I love when Roy challenges us challenges me with that question is what is the worst thing that can happen if I post on LinkedIn today? What is the worst thing that can happen if I reach out and try to connect with someone that I want to get to know better? What is the worst thing that can happen if I put a call to action in my LinkedIn profile? And so I love I love Roy's challenge because we get inside our heads and we start to like if we actually just stopped and thought about what is the worst thing that can happen it's not even bad at all. They're you know, so that and I think for people trying to get started on LinkedIn they do they get themselves worked up, worked up and they're in their own head. But hopefully they can stop, take a sip of tea and say what's the worst thing that can happen if I step out and become a thought leader in my space? What's the best thing? Oh we can give you a list that long. So funny you say Roy shout out to Roy who's maybe just waking up now but he's my co-moderator one of my co-monerators on Thursdays LinkedIn Mastering. We're all about content and the same thing we have people who are scared not just to show up but then to post. So we work through that a lot and I can tell you a lot of times I'm sitting there looking at people's profile I'm like oh my gosh you've got such great stuff or the saddest thing is I'll see people post like once a month once every two months I'm like just stuff it up you've got great stuff you know so I try to play the encourager sometimes the tough love can encourage her and I'm in a loving way like oh you know why aren't you doing it because sometimes some people need encouragement and some people need the tough love encouragement right now yeah at the end of the day though you have to do what's right for you and and the format and whatever so I got some pushback today I had so I had this little thing about challenge and to do 50 word posts and a few people like you know 50 word posts that's stupid whatever you shouldn't tell people to do I'm like no one's telling anyone to do it's just a challenge it's fun it's four times a month I'm not telling anyone to do anything I'm just saying if we mix up our short form content especially when I tell my clients if you're just coming out on LinkedIn make it short and sweet so people will be more inclined to read it and then you can do it I'm not saying we should get rid of long from content it's just to mix it up so you're always going to get pushed back but like what's the worst thing nothing if anything people will talk about it or something right that could be the worst thing so true oh so true well I hope people accept your challenge I'm gonna accept your challenge I have a few 50 it's just some fun I just like challenges I did the 365 in August you wanted my August challenge it was war for myself I said I wasn't gonna do a poll in all of August and I was gonna do a daily LinkedIn story which is so fitting because today they announced I heard that LinkedIn stories it because something new and better is coming down the road so wow so they're taking them off the shelf starting September 30th yeah and wouldn't you know it oh so I um one of my offers is a LinkedIn course for the hospitality industry and of course part of the course is about the different content formats and I was just getting ready to craft some additional content around LinkedIn stories for the course and so now I'm like oh I guess I don't have to do that anymore so thank you LinkedIn I no longer have to create that as part of my LinkedIn course but you're right that I think one of the things I love about LinkedIn is in the same way that they we encourage one another to test and test and retest different things at work LinkedIn's doing the same thing right they tested stories it fell flat you know we can all gather in our little LinkedIn rooms and decide why didn't it work and and we can debate that for hours but it didn't work um and to be honest it's a bit of a relief for me because it's one less thing I have to do now I don't have to do LinkedIn stories um but now they're gonna try other things and they're starting to tease out some other video types so you know we all we need to take a page from our own book and give LinkedIn the grace and flexibility to test and test and retest things you know we we do it as creators we encourage our clients to do it as budding creators we need to let LinkedIn creators the same leniency and grace so yeah so whether you're sad or happy about the disappearance of LinkedIn stories it's because they're working on other things they're not back and doing nothing and they probably have to take that format down to put the new one coming up so we shall see you know all is a great time we're gonna get a lot of LinkedIn gifts I think I really do think they've been handing out lots of things coming up in fall and creator mode 2.0 and and all the things so they keep us on our toes here they do which is again I love it I love that they are creators just like um the people they encourage to be on the platform exactly yeah so for those of us who are on the platform regularly um you know we've we're in the networking room now we've got our drink from the bar we're starting to mingle we're starting to to add our content to the room what are some advanced strategies for people who um are regular users of LinkedIn but they want to level up their game just a little bit more start posting more frequently or consistently you know you're in the room you've you've liked people's posts that gives you reassurance it's baby stuff maybe start following people seeing their content maybe start sending out some strategic connection requests and and I do recommend personalized ones you're just starting because that will be more inclined to you know people can identify with who you are and then just find some opportunities to post and the way I do it is like you know what do you want to be known for what do your people need what a problem do you solve all those things and just find a mixture of being helpful inspiring entertaining somewhat personal somewhat professional you know a mixture just start testing start testing the baby stuff so like you say test formats too um so it doesn't have to be like oh you're going to go put videos on and stuff just start testing little things and I guarantee you you can't you can't know until you start trying and testing and and and I think you will see you will find what you like what resonates and and what you know you could keep doing so that's the best thing and then just comment comment comment the more you get the faster you can get known is by engaging in other people's stuff um we know that but um but I don't know how well I actually I would think you should ramp up engagement more if you're just coming out of the gate you know yeah shake more hands go introduce yourself more you know yeah you know you raise so many good points the the power of the comment um and we've definitely seen that um in the last few years as being such an incredibly powerful tool on LinkedIn for growing your brand is commenting on the posts of people that you you want to get to know better um the word thought leadership comes up a lot and I love the word thought leadership because I think we can all dissect in and of itself what the word thought leader is and I think the word thought leader creates um some fear in people um you know like you know what is the the the benchmark or the the checklist to consider yourself a thought leader and it holds people back from creating content um so I wish there was another word but I I want to encourage everyone that a thought leader is anyone who has even just a slight edge in one specific area over a community of people um or your discussion starter and I think that's that's a great opportunity on LinkedIn is maybe you don't have all the answers but you kind of want the answers if you start a discussion about it you're considered a thought leader you're the one going out there and you're eliciting feedback from the community so you know it doesn't always have to be about I think this and I think that your content can look more like well what do you think about this and what do you think about that and invite the community into a discussion that then gathers some different content ideas for the future I love that so again you're using content to build community which builds trust so again content comes in to be in that currency of of the internet um your thought leader is like personal branding it gets misconstrued a lot of people when it talks about thought leadership it's like thinking you have to be some you know CEO executive it's reserved for them no if you have expertise or something I believe that you can you should put it out there now the irony you said that I gave a speech last week or a presentation last week in a brand print summit the brand print summit about thought leader influence or how do you position your brand and I wrote down the difference between a thought leader and an influencer and my thing is you should try aim to be a brand authority because a brand authority is someone who uses our expertise but it uses ideas that matter so you know Simon Sinek and the whole thing about your why you know to be a brand a brand that matters and brings ideas to the table and make a difference that's what you want to be you start these conversations from topics that matter in green community so that's kind of when you become a brand authority just by virtue of bringing people to get on topics that matter and interest them so it's a longer deep dive but I didn't recommend being an influencer you know because that's more like you know caulking products and services vogue magazine or vogue business came out a couple weeks ago with this wonderful article and I can link to it about this whole new crop of influencers becoming they're called genuine influencers where they want to talk about ideas versus hot products and that was kind of tied in really well but it came out the day I gave my my presentation actually so as a whole we're seeing more people want to discuss relevant society issues that matter you know so in your opinion that word that genuine influencer word how is that different from a thought leader in your opinion well that was the one that that word is what vogue business article they're they're more talking about people and more like the instagram setting they don't want to hot products and services they want to talk about and have content it's kind of like the content entrepreneur which is starting to be a coin phrase they want to talk about ideas that matter ideas that bring difference you know we're not just superficially talking about influencing people's perception of products or services and that's what traditionally influencers for the instagram influencer I'm thinking you know so it's it's it's upping up your your your your quality of conversation I guess going back to that conversation starter you know we're on a deeper level now after the 2020 right in so many ways so it's not just entertaining and it's not just educating it's bringing a whole mix of that to see what people what matters for people and and we all have a voice and we should be using it well and what I like about what you said is that we are doing this so often in 2020 and 21 because of the pandemic that will remain unnamed and as someone is that's in the industry of bringing people together you're right we have to we we all learned very quickly how to share thought leadership when we couldn't be in the same room as one another so um yeah and that's not going to go away when we start to gather again as as people but this has given us a platform to practice it's given us a platform to again test test and retest different ideas so that when we do come together we can communicate our ideas a little bit more effectively so it has been a bit of a blessing a curse and a blessing all at the same time to have to create um this thought leadership um during a time when we can only do it virtually so you know I wanted to show Jen Ellen's comment again Jen Ellen's actually a friend of mine Michelle she lives in Calgary and um she was formerly in the hospitality industry she's moved on to to different industries um but here's what here's her comment she says it's a difficult thing to come to grips with about what makes you special and what makes you what you have to say important and this stalls a lot of people you're so right Jen Ellen it does stall a lot of people which is one of the reasons that hopefully people like Michelle and I um exist right through our content and through our services and offerings we're helping individuals find what makes them special and finds what they have to say that is important and considered thought leadership so um definitely check out the resources that Michelle has definitely check out the resources I have hopefully you can find something that'll help you find that thing that is special about you and bring out your thought leadership as well so I have um I for her if you go in my profile I have um I think it's like the second or third of my showcase I have this article about how to write a your belt summary I think that's one has a free uh icky guy you know you're familiar with the term icky guy your reason for being and your personal brand you can print that out and it asks you some of those questions you know and icky guy is it you know I know it's not traditionally used for personal branding but it's just one of the little things I ask and bring people because you want to align with who you are professionally professionally basically who you are with the world needs what they'll pay you for and what you're good at the few things you know and um that's a start but I promise you the way everyone has something everyone has something it's it's really hard for me to say that I mean that's why you and I work with people to pull it out of them you know to find to uncover it we don't create a false sense of it we find the real part of it and we're all trapped in it in our own ideas and I always say in the frame of the picture in so you need someone you know and even if you don't hire someone have someone take a resource and have someone ask you these questions and it's hard to get it out of ourselves wouldn't you agree some of them possible and it's that mindset thing again it keeps popping up when we talk about branding and LinkedIn um but I think it's something that can't be ignored is um find yourself in a healthy headspace before you dive into these exercises so that you're very honest about yourself and you're not allowing those limiting beliefs to hold you back from sharing what is your unique perspective on the world so yeah mindset work is a big thing when you talk about sharing yeah it's everything you're right it's and one of the best things I try to help people is look when you're coming out it's intimidating but personal brands aren't about you they're of you or someone else so you're coming out to help that person so they need you so if you're going to stay hidden and everything and not be clear in that those people need you so we're here to serve others you know in my brand and the brandy work I do so it's not about us so when you leave with someone else and it seems less scary when you put the focus on others so that's one way to talk about it well and Marie Forleo um she's doing a podcast series right now for uh creators so creative content creators whatever you want to call us and um each podcast begins with the unique gifts we have as creators and if we don't share them we are literally stealing from the people that we're trying to serve and she uses that word steal and it's like wow like she just punches it in perspective right like no holds barred with Marie Forleo ever yeah but you know when when she challenged me with that it's like holy cow I better continue showing up so I'm not stealing from people right you know she scared me out of but it made you think and it made you change that perspective if you had that any slidel right you know like I'm saying that's for other people not us so um I guarantee you that we all have that thing we just have to find it and have someone help us find it usually so exactly so Michelle I always enjoy our time together so much and I do know that we have some other stuff to catch up on but I will not bore our audience with the logistics of our schedules um however if people want to learn more about you where can they go to find you absolutely well thank you again for having me on a second time I will come back anytime to talk with you um you can go of course follow me on LinkedIn connect with me on LinkedIn say hi there I'm always very open and I answer all my DMs um my website is michellebrands.com and um you can find me there with my resources my LinkedIn live uh season one is just ended last week and my season two is coming out but I am going to be putting all those in a podcast forum launching next week on my website so um plus other other podcast episodes like Michelle Raymond's and that one and some other great people so um you can check me out there and I will be working on getting more content and resources out for this month that's my goal with my LinkedIn live on hiatus told next month oh so we're on hiatus well yeah season one's over you got to give that break remember I said you can't be it's a lot of work um I love it though love it but you got to have time to take a break and regroup so so important you know so we're going to talk about that I like how you've created these seasons so let's talk about that a little bit everyone thanks for joining us today if you are watching this on replay the comment section is open and so if you have questions or insights about what you're hearing today continue to drop them in the comments because Michelle and I will be monitoring the comments even on replay so we want to hear from you we want to have this um this two-way thought leadership dialogue that we were talking about in the episode today um so we want to have that with you I want to thank Tamika and Jen Allen who have already um given us some insights and things to talk about and I encourage both of you ladies to continue commenting um if you revisit this on replay thank you again to Michelle Griffin who um always been um such a joy she's so sunny she's wearing yellow her color today she's just such a dear friend and collaborator and I'm I'm so thankful that you're in my life Michelle thank you here thank you so much right back at you I appreciate it I'm going to put that bog business article in the comments too it's super interesting yeah I would like that very very much okay thank you everybody okay I appreciate it see you next time on Tuesday have a great Tuesday everyone