 map you will see there's a lack of red points. I just Disappeared the developer world. I mean a United States, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, Australia. Australia too. Okay. Yeah Sorry Yeah, yeah, I mean this is more or less the world doesn't as the Again as most of the people see it So so well, why do we have such a low? density here, maybe because Most people don't have even access to technology We have over half of the countries in the world don't have a single deviant developer In many points in the world you can walk 1,000 kilometers in any direction you will have find no deviant developers at all Especially now that we're all in the single point a Africa as a whole continent has 13 deviant developers I could find seven of them live in the only developed country Okay, yeah, I think there's at least one in Senegal. I'm sure of yeah, he's mentioned but Sorry How many developers in each country in which country are the other developers that the other six of the of Africa? I think there is at least one in sorry. We have the map. Yeah, there's one in Nigeria, apparently One in Egypt one in Egypt To be one in Somalia. Yeah, I don't know with the I don't know if the points are real because there's one person also in Middle, Greenland and one in Antarctica, but There seem to be one in Madagascar and well, there I think three or some Spanish developers living in Canarias, which is well technically it's Spain. So I forgot to block it But it's in Africa Yeah yeah, and Okay, another blocking point is that most third-world countries Well, people care about speaking the official language of the country at most. Yeah, because many people speak minority languages a English is quite required to contribute to free software and Well, it's a very important barrier for many Many potential developers. Yeah, I may have an example for that I was mentioning this talk I gave up in Chile and unfortunately for me I don't speak Spanish at all and When you go to Chile and I guess to all over Latin America when you only speak English I'm afraid it's not very well received You are There's a kind of Yankee problem, you know, so Only speaking English is very handicapping things and we had to translate very quickly my slides about Debian So I think I have quite good slides in Spanish now about the Debian project by the way with bad Spanish The work although they say Happening instead of successes or things like that. Yeah, but the most important I have met a few geek people over there and that didn't speak English at all So it's completely fake to assume that each and every people in Involved in the Linux world speak English. That's completely false So well, you all know probably that translating everything is a kind of Thing I'm always talking about of course When we are back to topic of Latin America, this is very very important because the feeling about the language Either Spanish or Portuguese in Brazil is very important I think that most of you were in Porto Allegra or already felt this and I think this is even stronger in Spanish speaking countries. I should say Castilian speaking countries by the way You wanted to say something okay, so the question was That's very good you obey the rules. I'm a good speaker. I repeat the question. Okay Okay, and well, this is not Debian specific the low population in most of the non-developed world Is common to most free software. I think to any free software big project now Yes, he has a Strong outsider motivation to talk about Latin America because he was just involved in the in this initiative. I My main motivation to do it was because well when I was accepted in Debian this map Which is quite sparse was even sparser and Well, one of the tasks I've said to myself is promoting free software all all over the continent Last year I was also also to Chile. I was in Bolivia to Peru and I'm going to Colombia on August so well, I've been trying to get more people in a Joining free software projects Because well, it's a part of the world I live in I think well as the saying goes that you should they think globally at locally, so that's That's why I chose to give this now There are some very strange very specific things about this continent a Distances are not what you are used to if you are your Europeans. I mean for example when I went to Chile a Martin Michael Myers was also invited and well He was trying to arrange He asked me to check with the organizers that well, maybe now that he's in Chile He can just take a bus and go over Machu Picchu because it's very interesting thing in Peru Yeah, that would be from here from Valparaiso to here doesn't seem too far. It's two days of travel Yes, so Distances are not anything and and people cannot afford to travel by pain a Bolivian place for example, I took a plane from a Sugar to La Paz the two capitals of Bolivia. It was $60 and it was quite cheap for me, but people there a prefer spending over one night on a boss on a dirt road because there's only a dirt road and well a I saw some interesting things in this last year in Bolivia I Mean network network access lacks be a much behind what we see here to the The downloads rate I have here from anywhere in the world is more that than what I have in my university locally I mean from the same university in Bolivia very few people can afford a computer but Anyway, you anywhere you go in every medium-sized city. You have plenty of internet cafes and they're usually full and well People really use that resource a lot I know that well when you don't own a computer you cannot choose what to install in it And that's a severe handicap and you don't have a space of your own. So that's important task the Bolivian people must must See I don't know to to make some community area To have their their development hosted. Yep In Mexico, well, we have DSL coverage or in over 80% of the country But then again, we have a about 5 to 10 percent of people who can have a computer. So it's not really worth much Yep in Brazil. There are also community points everywhere. I think a Well, you know more or less these examples But this is the most important problem we have in Latin America Yeah, there's a story about these princess princess Malintin She was a princess of one of the pre-Hispanic People with the countries they had and well when when the conquerors when they go to Mexico She was offered as a bride to the conqueror and she learned Spanish and she served as the Translator well, then Erdan Cortes a couple of years later when he was already a Governing all of the New Spain that's Mexico more or less. Well, he got tired left her Gave her in marriage to someone else and they went away Yeah, and it still happens all the time. We call that Malin Chismo Yep, that's the reason for example, why Christian was invited. We have deviant developers in Chile Yeah, in you have one well three one one and a half really one and a half because another one is in new maintain a queue So that's very few in terms of number. It's it's quite high in terms of Comparing to other countries other surrounding countries Chile's really the the most advanced country the continent and Gunnar mentioned the development of connectivity So the supposedly poor development of connectivity, but things may change in the future because What's the main difference over there is they there seems to be I say there seems because this is a feeling for me to be a strong involvement of the local authorities to develop a local in the software industry I guess and improve connectivity I attended the few presentation over there about covering maybe half of Santiago with Free wireless connectivity over there in with the small boxes around the the streets This is funded by the the local government to give very very easy internet access So as long as you have easy internet access you have the first brick on which free software development can be built on but there is this is probably a difference with our Our country's I say our country's of our Europe of our United States, Australia and so on there is a strong political involvement of a strong need to To develop all these new technologies as a way to develop the country I Hope you all get the point and this is something I felt very hard and I Always mentioning this word political commitment Because this is for many many countries. This is a political choice For instance choosing free software is first a political action before being another type of action So we well, I know that among the Debian community. There are both people who think in Political things other people who think mostly in technical things So we are not only a technical community. We we make political choices in Debian I'm a right beloved DPL. Do you agree on this? but When people talk about free software over there and especially the conference I was at It was mostly about political involvement I'm I'm I used to to be kidding about this, but the way the presentation were held it sounded like I Don't want to be a caricature, but it's on it was very left-wing size University and I felt in the old days of the 70s in Chile, you know and And It was really different for me, but this is what makes free software advance in Latin American countries political commitments advance and stagnate also Stagnate probably. Yeah, there's another example for example About Venezuela. Yeah, when when Hugo Chavez declared that he's the government will only use free software solutions Well, many people in the free software community were against it Why? Because Hugo Chavez was had a weak support in those times. So It was almost a fact that he would be overthrown. In fact Couple of weeks after that he he was overthrown for two days. Yeah, so If what if one party says well, I'm committed to free software then the other party gets to power Well, they will be committed to proprietary software just to state. They're not the same. Yeah, it's a Or for example, what happens in Mexico? Well, we had a very strong impulse five years ago when What's this idiot's name and my president we sent the fox When he started his mandate a he was pushing for a Something he called a Mexico. I mean in the e-business Scheme. Yes, and well, it's a project that flopped because because of the people he hired to do that It was a very bad choice, but No, there were people who tried, you know, it's very strange Mexico has a and I think that did that is this is common to most South America as well in The bureaucracy is a form of life by itself so You make all kinds of government plans just to ensure the bureaucracy keeps living so I work in me in a Mexico for I mean I as a Consultant for them because they wanted to set up a LMS learning learning management system and I happen to work at that time in the pedagogic University and I happen to be a visible person in free software. So Well, I got contacted by them and they said well, let's start studying the availability viability and the possibility of having this kind of studies And When we show them we have two working complete for free software learning management system solutions They freaked out because what they wanted was not to have the product the product They wanted to show there was enough work to justify their payment for the next three years and there was not Yeah, so so it was all spent in more studying the same and Well now we are about to finish the six-year term for for Fox and No project will get started until the new president is elected. So we have these three years of activity and three years of passivity periods and It's the same in all the other countries because everything is so political and You don't want to start a project that will end up benefiting someone else even if it's from your same party Benefit you go to you. I don't know other people from Brazil around here Please read and people's here It will be interesting to have your opinion about these Strengths or weakness about these political things in your countries or maybe in Argentina also What is your feeling about all this you want to share with us? I? think the the political side of things in Brazil With the PC connect Tardo is going to change somewhat the map of access to Computers to technology PC connect Tardo is a low a low-cost government project Which it basically will give as many people as possible access to to a Linux operating system. This is a government This is government funded to give access to Computers with Linux operating systems. Maybe not the end but the actual distribution has not been decided as yet There is some talk about it being current in which There's another other such similar projects in in Argentina if well, maybe Margarita would like to share with us, please Just throw the microphone just throw the microphone over I Try to take advantage of the few Latin American people around here Contrary to Brazil in Argentina This year a project was started to give people access to a cheap computer and The cheap computer was not really cheap Anything included windows. Yeah, so from the free software community. There was quite a movement to to stop this because It's like ripping people off The idea was first giving access to computers then we'll see later I think I talked with the Jalda yesterday about this They had such initiative in India to very low-cost computers and it finally turns out It seems to be of a fake good idea because in Low-developed country. I I don't think I can classify Argentina or Brazil as low-developed country, but Even if the computer is half the price The people who need it Can't really afford it anyway and the people who can afford the half Half price computer can also afford the full price computer So this is probably for sure a fake good idea to give access to low-cost computers Well, actually the thing is that these are Intel computers So they are at more expensive because they are Intel and no aim AMD and They are charging the windows license half the price, but it's they still are charging the window license So there are some businesses like Well No businesses normal businesses not nor related to the government who chose to sell AMD with Linux and The machines are cheaper than the ones that are government founded so our government is like going completely on the You see wrong way on the wrong way Yeah, I don't know if it's more or less like what I've seen a in Mexico one of those companies that started the promoting cheap computers is as mass which is the the technological arm of Televisa, which is well the largest TV Network in In Latin America So well, they started they say well, yeah, we want to hand out cheap computers. What is cheap? Well bad. Yes, I Evaluated one of those computers because well, it was very interesting to me that they were actually shipping a Sa no woody installations with a KDE backport KDE to something The thing is the computers that we're selling I don't know if any of you saw ever the Intel dock stations They are computers that look exactly like the first IMAC That have a 300 megahertz processor 64 megabits of RAM and Well, this was one year ago. I mean 64 megabits for KDE and the open office and the Mozilla Well, it just does not work and people the few people that bought one of those You have the option of buying it with Linux or with Windows Of course, the people that they bought it with Linux Got the Windows option because it really really sucked and the Windows option have more memory Yeah, no, really. Yeah, I think all these initially I'm not sure that all these initiatives are very very good targeted and the main hope for free software progress in Many countries including Latin America is probably through the education system for instance This conference I was at there were many people involved in the education system and there are a lot of initiatives for such such things Which basically look like Scholar Linux by the way So I think that the Scholar Linux people probably have to get closer to Latin America Because there is strong development area probably I probably also in Brazil too and Well, I just want to just don't want to forget to mention this. There is probably also a strong connection to develop between the communities and probably the Brazilian community and the Spanish speaking countries community and Connect together all the very small initiative you may have in all the countries you have Debian Chile you have Debian Peru You have a lot of organizations in Brazil, but now it's probably time to connect together, which may not be easy, but This is the thing to do that the organization are emerging country and The danger for me is to have all these things evolve Separately, you know, there's certain truth and certain falsity to what you say Because most South American countries are closely related between each other and of course closely related to the giant That's Brazil. Yes, I mean Brazil has a border with every South American country except for two and But on the other side Mexico it was very weird for me to go to South America because in Mexico we have a Really only one border with the United States. We don't care about what goes on in Latin America. We are not integrated in Latin America We only the only link we have with Central America is the Mara Salvatrucha That's a very violent kind of a gangsters and that are from Salvador, but I mean Central and the Central America the Caribbean and Mexico do not have a bonds to the South American continent Which does have strong bonds within itself? I think we had a question. Yeah, it's not a question It's more an observation that Free software is not so much the fight now, especially in Brazil The fight now is free culture, which is the thing that is more important. Yes This is what I felt also about free culture. Yeah access to knowledge There is there's also another government project in Brazil Which is to install in poor communities throughout the whole of Brazil They're called Pontus de Couture, which is a cultural center which will have dancing have music But we'll also have multimedia workstations All running Linux, which will be Debian To enable people to capture their own culture a remix culture Everything will be released in a creative commons type license So so the whole point is that the culture needs to be free not just the software I think is the most yeah, this is an access entry We are I think we are the question over there. Oh, yeah Mika also me Mika Mika, how are you sitting in them? Mika Muka Saphir Saphir had one question, please Actually, it's not a question. It's just a Reflection on the situation in on in the Balkans Like I have a example Safia is from Bosnia for yes, I'm from Bosnia That's a country which borders With Serbia and Montenegro on its left and I mean on on east and the Croatia on the west actually From the Balkans standpoint the situation is as it is Microsoft succeeded in making contracts with the Croatian government For use of their products within the Croatian government institutions as well as in Serbia and Montenegro, but Due to our effort they haven't really succeeded yet in Bosnia because They were pushing for signing the contract with the Bosnian government officials About using Microsoft products in Bosnia and government institutions, but on behalf of our Linux users group and the associations of Computer users and developers of Bosnia and Herzegovina. We have made a strong case Against using the proprietary software and using the free open-source software So our government is has put the the plan for Informatization of their Facilities until the end of this year which leaves us a little more time for our case. It's just a now it's a concern for us because Our government has been known for corruption and the bribery is a Possible case for some Decision-making politicians, so We just hope and see that we succeed in our plan. I mean we are the only Unconquered country when it comes to Microsoft on Balkans. Yeah, I think that most most countries I would say emerging countries are a very good target for proprietary software vendors they they don't care now about Europe and United States their real target is in the so-called third world and This is something all the local people have to be very careful about and probably You you all can have some action and organize yourself before it's too late probably Yeah, one thing it's not Latin America, but I had some I was in Africa last year and spoke with some developers from Nigeria and They expressed a can I asked them why there's not so many free software developers in Africa and their opinion Was that for them? They're spending well for us in developed worlds We are able to work on free software as a hobby in our spare time and for them The problem was in their spare time if they're going to work on something They need to be working on something that's developing a skill they can use to make money and so unless they are using Or developing free software so that they see an obvious economic Benefit that can be made so they can make money for their family then they are Not wasting time with that because if there's not free software jobs in their country Then they're just spending idle time and it's dangerous for them. That's what they tell me For example looking back at what I was telling about Bolivia. Well, I know there are some like Internet cafe like solutions and Many countries are just like it There's a very special thing about a Bolivia that I didn't mention and it's I think it's a valid most countries a one of the main income of the main incomes of the country is that they export people yes a In Bolivia all the internet cafes are so crowded because you have the family living in Europe in Mexico for example, officially the first source of income for for the country is the Petroleum sales and the second is people working in the United States That send money over it's amazing and Yes, we have to find a way to develop what's going to be used Directly I have been trying to talk with people from the different levels of the government in Mexico. There are some people Making some advance. Yes trying to get the government to hire people to develop solutions but well many of the continents Governments are right now quite Economically right-wing yeah in the so they want the government to sell all all of its Businesses and to just buy products not buy people to make products So it does not fit our model because we all know that we are communist people, you know Yeah, I'd like to I think we will have to conclude at some moments As I told too much I will try to make first conclusion myself if I can give a Goal for you your old people post the people in Latin America would be to say to you Organize yourself a lot be a big important lobby you I know you are already but Develop all these connections probably try to set up conferences if possible and sort out the The funding problems because even was while being in Chile I was surprised that there were very few people from other countries only because there was no funding to bring them So this is already important and I feel for instance very important that next year if we have Depp conf in Mexico, and I really hope we will have Depp conf in Mexico We will make a big effort to bring as many Latin American developers over there Kind of Yes at the expense of bringing other developers maybe but this may be a choice our bill of DPL We have to make to authorize such funding. Thank you, Brian and Another thing I want to say is if you all Debian developers have opportunity To go and speak about our project about Debian about free software, but don't forget about Debian also Please take it. Please use this opportunity To speak about free about Debian about what makes Debian specific because there is not a such a strong perception of the differences between maybe Debian read that and so on and so on we have a difference I think you all agree we have a kind of difference and Speak about it if you have opportunities use it if you talk the language Please be an ambassador. Please talk with the people people like when you you talk their language If you have to go to Latin America if you speak Spanish, that is a big big improvement Okay, if you and this is not only true for Latin America. I think so Good I want to enhance that Bringing things from the outside is not the only solution. I think this was your point This is the only way we have I Am outside Latin America. I can just make some lobbying to make things progress But at some moment the local people have to work on it also I want to add on this. Yes One of my main points in Latin America is to get the people developing for themselves But then again, I am pushing for that comes to be in Mexico then two years after that Well, if we keep the tradition of when you're in this side of the Atlantic one one year the other side It will probably be Argentina and I mean well We're not willing to have a deaf coffee in the United States. That's for sure a So we have to be in Latin America and but what I want you agree you agree just in Canada They had one. Okay. Okay, but one of my points in bringing the cough over there is to get the people to to see what What's it like to a large development effort? So they see they can collaborate so local people see they have a place in a Global effort and they will to get more people involved. I think it worked well last year in in Brazil I was very happy to see a lot of local people coming and just hack around in the hack lab I have a few pictures of this and this was this is how that comes should work. So if we have that come from Mexico Yes, I hope to see a lot of Mexican people with these big hats sleeping in the Yeah We don't like sleeping on cactuses We have another question Maybe I should just make a we are out of time we are out of time. So this is the last question Maybe okay Yeah, maybe I should just give a quick update about what happened after after dev conf in Brazil The dev conf in Brazil was in the south of the country, which is the most advanced part of the country It was very westernized, but there was quite a few people that came down from as owners from the Northeast about two months after We had Geodebian, which is a Debian day for Debian's birthday in Amazonas. We had the biggest The biggest event in throughout the whole of Brazil. This is directly as a result of the conference We had 500 people Come to a Debian day in Manaus. We were expecting 40 Yeah in Manaus. It's completely far from anything Manaus Yeah, they had to swim up to Manaus with the Piranhas, you're right Just like the Fin people jump out of the sauna and jump in the lake, you know So yeah, I think well it was time to conclude so it turned out to be kind of talk so I'm really sorry we would talk too much and Well, I think that Guna and I were very happy to see a lot of people attending this this is not a talk But thank you so much people