 Okay, we're back. We're live at 12 o'clock hour with Rob Yonover. And if you know anything about Rob Yonover here on Think Tech Tech Talks, you know that he is the perfect exemplar of the inventor and the entrepreneur. They could write books about Rob Yonover. In fact, he has written books about Rob Yonover. Welcome to the show, Rob. Thanks, Jay. Always good to be back. It's been a while. It's been a while. Rob and I sort of grew up together in the days of his early invention period. Actually, it was already his middle invention period. It was in the 2000s when, you know, people were, they put more value, it seems to me, on entrepreneurship and invention then than they do now. But that's another show, another story. So really, you know, let's catch up. I mean, you had these ocean streamers, and you were a one man band. You went out, you designed them, you made them, you tested them, and you ultimately marketed them to military organizations and travel organizations everywhere, where people are going to be over the water, where they might go down and they might, boats, boats carrying, or land. Yeah. And now, most recently, my eyes is you're into space. You know, I used to think you were into space in another way before, but now you're really into space. So tell us about the journey from there to here. Absolutely. Okay. Well, I came here in 84 to get my PhD working on volcanoes. And during a small aircraft flight, I thought we were going to go down. It was a rented plane. I looked down, you can see just blue water. And I figured your head's the size of a coconut. They'll never see you. I invented an idea that ironically, last week, the artist who inspired me back in Florida, I flew over a Christos artwork. We wrapped those islands in pink plastic. And I just said, if I could just get a piece of pink plastic, and that's what I did. I got a piece of pink plastic, but it kept on for curling up and not paying out. I invented struts on it. So it's like a centipede. A lot of my inventions are biomimicry based on nature. So I made a long orange. First, it was pink, but the US Navy little macho, they didn't want any part of pink. They said, lose the pink. You got something. So I went to international orange, proved that it worked. The little struts make a centipede and segmentation. So you have a 25 or 40 foot long orange tail. And unlike smoke, flair, sea dye, or even electronic devices, it lasts forever. And it just marks you because even whether you're lost in the mountains or the ocean or even in space, they still need a visual. They know you're down there, but you're looking down for a coconut. They can't see the coconut. They can't see the rock on the hill. So it's just a very simple device in the patent world. Ironically, the broader the patent is broader patents come from simpler ideas. So a very intricate cell phone, you can design around it, but a streamer with struts to make it like a segmented centipede, very hard to design around it. So I've been doing this for years. I got involved with the military because that was the optimum people for safety were the military. So they approved the Army, Navy, Air Force Marines and just kept pushing away for years. I mean, if anything, the word perseverance, I'm the guy. Well, yeah. What about your PhD? That had to have an effect on things. You had to be using some of it. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I got here from why I did a PhD at Stoist with worked on submarine volcanoes off Galapagos. I got to go down and submersible two miles down, worked at NASA and MIT, analyzing my sample, and I learned how to be a scientist and to attack problems and prove things, disprove them, be right, be wrong, debate them, do more research. And I still use that today. Everyone says, well, you're not a volcanologist. Like, yeah, your PhD, you don't use that anymore. I go, yes, I use it every day. And from UH, I got into the dual use community back then and then Cirrus and DARPA military encouraged us to do research and then blue startups more recently. And I had a licensee for 15 years and able me to grow the company. So this is a Hawaii victory getting the streamer on SpaceX. And to me, this is the culmination of my whole life in tech, because when I was at NASA, Johnson Space Center during my PhD, I wanted to be the first guy to go to inner space two miles down, which I've done in the Alvin submersible and outer space. And at the time, they were taking scientists, but then the challenger blew up. And that was the end. So I couldn't personally get into space, but my invention is it lived, you know, it's, I want to talk to you about that. Now, you just described the international orange and emulates the structures of nature. And it's brilliant. And you were able to market it. It's not easy because of it. Yeah, but you were able to market it. And that's not so easy when you're talking about these huge, you know, military organizations and capital concentrations. And here's Rob, and he markets it to whoever. And it's like, it's like everywhere. But, but let me, let me ask you this, you know, it's on the water clearly. So on the water, it can be seen from the air. That's where, that's where I remember you to do marketing. But now you're talking about under the water, and you're talking about in space. So what does a 40 foot streamer do under the water? And what does a 40 foot streamer do in space? Okay, let's back up. It works on the surface of the water. It doesn't work underwater. I was just my experience underwater, you could a diver could get stuck on a rock and pull it out. And it could be in a very narrow case. And then in space, the original patents said lost at land, sea, or space. If the astronauts doing a spacewalk get detached, they could be a spec floating in space, but a spec with a 40 or 25 foot orange tail is much easier to spot. That's not what SpaceX is using it for. In theory, they're using it for the splashdown and the emergency exit in case they splash down. They're going to be up there for three months, orbiting in the space station. When they come home, they're splashing down in the Atlantic. And the capsule, they'll stay in the capsule, there's a parachute and there's a raft. But if they get separated in capsule, the capsule can be on fire. They jump out. That's when they'll have the streamers. And that's when they'll be just like any other lost boat or a lost hiker. They'll be a little spec in the large sea and they'll want to find them. And that will save their lives. And in fact, it has saved lives, hasn't it? You've received nice news from people over the years and they've thanked you for saving their lives. Am I right? Absolutely. That was the best feeling of all. And I go to these trade shows and part of the reason I'm sitting in front of you still is I built up the patents that enabled me to get in the door to protect my invention. Then the marketing enabled me to keep pushing it, pushing it to all the different agencies. And then the military has used it and it's saved lives already. And a couple of guys came up to me and thanked me. And that felt good better than any of the money I've ever earned or anything I've gotten from that because it was like a total validation of a crazy little idea you had and the perseverance to pursue it. A lot of people said, you know, quit, what are you playing with this piece of plastic for? Get a real job. But I knew it would save lives. I always knew. I've got a million inventions. That idea I knew was a winner. But you evolved that idea. It didn't stop it being a streamer. You added technology. Can you talk about that? Sure. Original streamer was just plastic film. Then ultimately the Air Force, they liked it, but they wanted to get rid of me. Ultimately, they said, look, until it's self-deploying and night signaling, we're not that interested. So I came back. I used the idea of rice paper candy and I found dissolvable plastic. The same they put in the dishwasher, those little packets. We made a pouch that dissolved when it hits the water. The streamer instead of rolled up and z-folded it, unfurls automatically with the current. Then it has two flashing lights that have photo sensors that only activated at night. So flash three nights in a row, off at night, off at day, on at night. And that's in fighter jets now, all over the world. The Singapore Air Force, some of our Air Force flies with it. That's our ultimate product. So, and then because everyone wanted those but couldn't afford the $900,000 price tag, those sophisticated pieces of technology, I simplified it and used military-grade chem lights for the lighting and solace-grade reflectors. So I have a night component of all the streamers and it still just fits here and it fits in this little holster right there. So it fits on your belt or in your backpack. It's not auto-deploying. You have to be conscious for this one. But still, if you're, I always tell people, if you can't swim, you're going to die anyway. So you've got to be able to do something. You've got to throw a streamer. Well, that's fabulous. Have your patents worked? I mean, has anybody tried to make a run at infringing on you? That's an interesting question. I could do an hour or two on that. Not, you know, what happened is I built on the military, on the streamer, I built on the patents with military approvals based on millions of dollars on their testing. So if I have national stock numbers, so I built a whole barricade of weaponry to protect that idea. So that has patents, military approvals, national stock numbers, acquisitions already, that's different. From some of my other patents, I did have a run on and that's a whole other show, but I invented, I patented the inflatable paddle board and it was an inflatable rescue board slash recreational board. You may remember that from our early show. And what happened is then the inflatable paddle board industry, the standup paddle board thing took off. And my patent attorney said, look, just because you invented it to lay down in paddle on, just because someone stands out with a paddle, doesn't mean it's not the same invention. So I had a major international battle because every company you go to Costco, the inflatable paddle boards are everywhere. You know, Obi, everyone makes those. So I had a big, interesting story and, you know, hardcore inventing is my patent book, inventing book. And I need to write, we're on edition two, but edition three might have a whole section on defending your patent. Okay, I want to talk about shark tank, you know, that really struck me. I don't know anybody open a shark tank and I, at most of the time, I do not envy their experiences. Can you talk about your experience? Absolutely. You know, it was a big risk and my brother said, what are you doing? You're crazy. You're a legitimate inventor of technology. Why are you going on that show? And I'm like, well, why not? I mean, I've always been a big fan of promoting things through the media. Ever since that show premiered, I'm like, I'm the guy I should be on that show. I can mix it up with those guys. And they had, well, Alamoana had open casting call, 400 people morning, because I didn't want to wait in the sun. I was like seventh in line. Not that that mattered. But I just pitched, made the first cut, made the second cut, made the third cut, they flew me to LA, made the cut with all the producers. They tried to get me to do a canned speech. I said, no, I don't, and I did it. The producer said, we love your back and forth questions and answers, but can you just be more loose on the presentation? And I looked at my producer, I said, look, I told you, let me just talk to you. Look, do anything you want. So then they let me lose for the airing. I was in there for an hour. They all loved it, which was great. And I felt within five minutes, five seconds, I had them. I showed them the before and after pictures and just the fact of my background being a scientist and inventor. And I had, then I hit him with all the sales we had. It wasn't just a backyard project. And Mark Cuban actually fell in love with it. He kind of fell in love with me a little too. I was a little uncomfortable. You know, a bit of a man crush on me, but it was cool. He couldn't get over me being a bald doll and a big wave surfer. He was all, he was all sparkly. But anyway, he was really cool. They were very polite and they, you know, they loved it. I couldn't, when I went in there, I wanted to make a deal. And I even offered such a low ball price just to get one or more of them involved. And I was shocked that they didn't want to get involved. But you know, to them, it's all about money. And they didn't see the big, you know, transition of flipping it to a big money product because it's tough to sell safety. But all five sharks liked it. On national TV, they played it once, then they rerun it on reruns, then they played it 25 times and counting on CNBC. I'm on all the time. And I definitely looked better because I had hair and makeup trailer. You know, they did all, they maybe look good. It was only three years ago. So now that every time they play, I get calls from all over the world. I know the world that way. And yeah, it's unbelievable. I, you know, it's been, they call it, and I'm part of a shark tank group of people that have been on the show. And they call it the gift that keeps giving because unless, unless they grilled you hard, then it's to give the gift that keeps torturing you. You know, we have some other Hawaiian vendors on there and they gave, they gave her a hard time. I had to talk her off the ledge. So it was a great experience, but I'll tell you, it's a lot, it's a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure. It's me alone with five people that want to poke holes in my whole pitch. And it's totally legitimate. I didn't know them. They didn't know me. Boom. Talk. And then before you start, there's a 40 second stare down and then go. And then you talk. I was in there like over an hour and all you see is seven minutes when you see the cliff. So there was no one saying, Hey, that's sounding good. Say that again. It's just like we're talking now. It's total free form, live, live, live to take. It's a great experience. And then I had CBS Innovation Nation come out of your moraca. He didn't come, but Ali Ward came and we did a great piece on the sea rescue. And they even, they even have me digups. I had my old invention notes from 84, the original drawings of the streamer. And they love that. So that's on that CBS show. So that was another great, you know, piece of media on, you know, and the SpaceX now, you don't even know what to do with that yet. I'm trying to do something because it's just, I'm still, I'm still numb that it actually happened. But I met these people through the military NASA and SpaceX are part of the safety survival group on part of international with all the militaries. And they came by my booth a couple of years ago. They come every year. And I just thought they were looking at the street where they called me a couple of weeks and said, no, it's going up. I'm like, okay, great. So I'm trying to figure out what I can do with that piece of news. Well, are you selling to, are you selling to anybody who has any barrier? Is there any, is there any, you know, defense barrier? In other words, if somebody who the United States was at verse two came to you and said, you know, Rob, we'd like to buy your streamers. Oh, yes, absolutely. Would you be limited? I have to be careful. Certain products like the fighter pilot one, I can only sell that to certain governments, NATO governments. But the regular streamers, because they're safety and survival, I can sell them to anyone. So I've had some really interesting countries buy them sometimes indirectly. But also what I spun off of Shark Tank is Amazon. The whole point of my blue startups effort was to start, you know, an e-commerce business. So now, and my theory was women are my customers and no offense to guys, but we're kind of idiots. We don't care about safety. We want to buy another six pack. Women are like, hey, you're going out to sea, you're going to the mountain. I'm worried about you. I want you to come home. And it worked to a point. So Amazon now sells streamers directly. So I have an Amazon rep that handles that. And I don't sometimes streamers end up all over the world. It's really amazing. And they're all built here in Hawaii, made in USA, made in Hawaii. I'm really proud of that. And, you know, it's a piece of safety. It's nothing you cut corners on. You don't do a factory run overseas. Just if I look at Amazon, what's the price range going to be for your gear on Amazon? They're from 95 to 145, but they're on sale on Amazon for 80 to 120. 80 is that little one I just showed you in the holster. This little holster that clips to your belt or your life giant, $80. It's got lights, reflectors, streamer, and, you know, a nice little holster. And then 120 is the big one that goes on boats. What about the Coast Guard? There's a range of cars and we're trying to simplify it. Is the Coast Guard interested in your product? Coast Guard, ironically, absolutely. They're very careful not to endorse the product. So what's happened with them, which is very ironic and a little bit of egg on their face, is they've approved it for their own boat crew survival vests. So when you see the Coast Guard guys in the orange boats, the inflatables, those guys are allowed to have and use the streamers and a lot of them do, but they've been mum on telling Joe Boater and Joanne Boater whether they should have them. So it's a little weird. I've always, I never really understood the Coast Guard, but they must get approached all the time to the regulations. The regulations were written 50 years ago when flares and sea die and other things were the rage. So to change those laws, you literally need an act of Congress because you have to rewrite the laws, federal regulations. So I've decided it's not worth trying to go up that hill, but the letters of approval, approval for use. So we just did a demo with the Coast Guard and it did well. So here you are, it's been crazy. From the 80s till now, that's a long time already. I mean, what's the future? What's the future? What, you know, if you could talk about it, what are the products? Have you got up your sleeve? What are the markets? How you're going to approach? What are the changes in your company? Go ahead. Okay, one of the most exciting projects I have going in my mind, I still can't get enough excitement generated in other people's minds is, again, back to me. And you know, bicycle sales are blowing up in this COVID thing because people are getting back to nature and transporting correctly like they should using their bodies. And I looked at the bicycle on water and they have bicycles that peddle a big fat tire and they have a bicycle that pedals a propeller. But I've never seen a fish with a propeller. So I went to my drawing board and invented a water bicycle based on risk. I got the patent, so I own the idea for 20 years. And in fact, I'll announce this publicly on your show. I'm looking for someone to get involved with me on that project. I'm still involved with a streamer. I have patents. I work with some of the UH engineer guys, contracted with one of them. They helped me make some design and CAD drawings. So I'm at the prototype stage. I've designed drawings, patents, and the idea is to make it look like a shark. The first one, and you know where I'm going with it. I'm going right back to Shark Tank just to get the PR. Why not? Yeah, Mr. Waterford's a shark tank bike, a shark bike. Because when you ride on the water and see a big tail, that's the one. That's the winner. But it's not what I advise most inventors is to invent something small. So storage and shipping are easy. This water bike is a bit problematic because it can't be this big. So it can be inflatable. So we can make it inflatable. So it might fit in two duffel bags. So I'm looking to partner or license that. And with a goal, I don't know if Shark Tank would even do it. I'm also considering teaming with other Shark Tank people because they try to encourage entrepreneurship. So I'm going to say why not two Shark Tank contestants combining because you're feeding the whole entrepreneurism of the community and the country to come up with something new. And that's where I'm going with that. And on the flip side, I keep doing my outreach thing. I go out to schools all the time. But wait, what's the market for the shark boat? The self pioneer, the self engineered, the self powered shark boat. Is that for recreation? Is that for safety? What is that? Everything but recreation. People need to get across waterways, whether it's a river, a lake, an ocean, a bay. You could even perhaps race them and surf them a little. But mainly for exercise and just transportation. I mean, I could see them in Venice, Italy. You know, instead of the gondola, the guy could be sinking and peddling. And I even told the guy at U8, I go, and the other thing, the way I judge my inventions, do I want one? Yes, I want, if I want one to be reasonable, I mean, I want some crazy things, but I would want a water bike. It doesn't have to look like a shark. A lot of people would want it. Right. And I have some other inventions that are frustrating in that I didn't get them launched completely. I have a pocket desalinated, a convert salt water to freshwater, a pocket water flotation device. I have my inflatable rescue board. Those and my video search and rescue, I team with a couple other mentors on that one. But those three, I have a whole suite of other survival products that they got to the patent stage, military funded stage, prototype day work stage, but I haven't brought them to the market. And I think smartly I focused on what I knew would work the streamer and kept going there. And you know, the desalinated only makes a cup of water and half a cup of water a day or quarter cup even, which isn't a lot. But as my buddy Luis Zamparini, the guy that was lost at sea for 74 days, you only need a mouthful a day. You're not going to look good after a mouthful a day, but you'll be alive. So when I, when the military tested the desalinator, it didn't make enough, enough water and it was a cloudy day in the Philippines when they tested it. So that's still a bit of a, you know, a regret that I haven't got back to market, but you know, you can't win them all right away. So ever been involved in dual use research? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the whole Hawaii, the state of Hawaii used to have a big program. Do you remember that with Syros, which was DARPA military money, and they were selecting products that had like the streamer, which is good for the military and good for civilian, my desalinator, good for everything I've invented in survival is dual use. And that's why I always had a bit of an edge over some of the pure military research people that are just making some sort of drone or some sort of missile something that doesn't translate to selling it on Amazon too that help regular everyday people. You know, Rob, you were going to talk about your visits to the schools and your discussion with kids and potential entrepreneurs. And I would really like to hear about that. I would like to hear what you tell them. I like to hear your advice, the advice you give them about being an entrepreneur and an inventor. Well, I mean, first of all, the number one thing I tell them is take that phone, turn it off and throw it in the water. Those phones are killing kids. They're frying adults and kids. I've been anti phones for 10 years. And just remember one thing, Steve Jobs didn't let his kids use them. Okay. And when I was a kid, if you had a color TV in your pocket, we, if you had a color TV and wash it all day at home, we made fun of you. Now it's okay to have a color TV in your pocket. No, it's numbing all our brains. We're seeing beautiful color pictures instead of being outside and thinking. I want to loot and have a phone that works in black and white, like mine, whereas, and then I want to think in color. I don't want to look in color. So kids need to turn everything off, go out in nature. And I give them inventors kids. I give them a pencil and a piece of paper. And that's it. Think of an idea, write it down a piece of paper. That's it. Have a discussion. What about entrepreneurship? What about commercializing your idea? What about making a living? Well, of course, that's, I mean, I wrote a book, Hardcore Manning that talks about all those steps, how you protect your invention through patents, promote it through the media media, and then try to license it or sell it on your own. I'm all about entrepreneur. And my whole thing with kids is don't quit your day job. So you can quit your day job, because it takes twice as long to bring an invention to market than you think it takes twice as much money. And the amount of pressure, there's a, whatever, there's 160 hours in a week. If you have a 40 hour job, you still have 120. If you sleep for another 40, you still have another 80. You have plenty of time. Stop looking at your phone, do the work at night and weekends and pull. You know, you know, Rob, we just talked with Shinoah Fonsworth last week. You must know her. One of the things we talked about was, you know, reimagining the Hawaii economy. You stand alone, really, or a very small group of inventors and entrepreneurs that have actually succeeded over the past 20 years. And, you know, I'm wondering what you think about the possibility of diversifying the economy and allowing for the development of a tech industry that will follow the kind of things that you've been doing. Is it possible in Hawaii? I think so. I think you take this money, whether it's a small amount or a large amount, and people are driven to compete. I think you have inventing contests like Shark Tank at all levels. First, you know, elementary school, you get 50 bucks in pancakes or chocolate. High school, you get 5,000. College, 10,000. Incentivize people to invent, number one. Number two, I've said this for years, we got to have tech dorms. We got to get expensively, not only so they can afford it, so they can cross-pollinate. Most of the great inventions are made by people inventing outside their field. How am I going to learn about medicine if I don't hang out with a doctor or a researcher? How am I going to learn? If you hang out with the same people all the time, you don't culturally do. The great inventions and ideas, even in college, came up when you were socializing, hanging out and playing sports in the bars, whatever it is. I think we can do it here, but I think you've got to open it to everyone. Give everyone money. Promote ideas. I've been saying this for years and you want a product at the end of the day. We want to end up with a product. That's why I like Shark Tank. Yes, there's some cheesy products on there, and yes, they're for lazy people. To me, the phone is just making us all batter and lazier. That's the whole goal of every technology. I don't like that, but at the end of the day, people will appreciate a good product. I just bought a product that it's for my sink. It's some invention with a patent that has holes. Even if there's residue in the bottom of the drain for the kitchen sink, it still flows through the plug so it doesn't get clogged up. It's simple. Easy. I bought it. Even when I go around to the kids, they have great ideas. Kids have the best ideas. They're not already polluted like we are as adults, learning what you can and can't do. I have a lot of faith in the kids. I just say reward them. Make it prestigious. Put them in the paper for their little invention. There you go. Or put them on Think Tank. Put them right here. It's not like Shark Tank, but it does have a benefit here in white. Well, Rob, thank you. It's great to catch up with you. In many ways, you're the same guy that I knew. I remember asking you one time, would you still talk to me when you're rich and successful and you said you would, and here you are talking to me. How nice. Of course. Anytime. It's my pleasure. I love your show. I love the chemistry we have. Call me anytime. They're the same. Thank you. So, so nice to see you. Thank you. I'll put Mark Cuban on hold when you call me. Rob, you're on over. I love you, man. Take care.