 And maybe they're right, but what the hell? I figured I'd bring in a couple of authorities to bolster my view. And so this is complete by accident. I like watching Glenn Lowry. I often watch him with John McWhorter. And I think there's some of the better intellectuals out there, certainly on issues of race. They're very, very strong and very, very good about this. So I was watching one of their episodes. And Glenn Lowry goes into this whole description of basically the fear he has, which is exactly aligned with my fear. So I'm going to play you this clip. Just to give you some context, Glenn Lowry is describing an interview he did with a long interview, long-form interview, which is behind a paywall on Fox with Tucker Carlson. He's discussing the generally positive experience he had with Tucker Carlson. I guess John McWhorter objected, didn't like the idea that Lowry was going on Tucker Carlson's show. He's, John is very, very anti-Tucker, anti-Trump as well, but anti-Tucker. And so that's the context. Lowry is basically expressing how positive his experience was with Tucker and the kind of things that they talked about, things that they talked about. And here is, so this is Glenn Lowry, let me just get him on screen, is Glenn Lowry. This is Glenn Lowry's discussion of this topic that he talked about with Tucker. Glenn Lowry, you know, distinguished economist agrees with me about X, Y and Z and therefore I was going to be a prop and I was prepared. I was prepared to not be a prop by pushing back and saying, oh, but, oh, but, oh, but, but he didn't do that. He basically interviewed me in a manner more or less the way that Oprah might have interviewed. Whoops. I didn't. It started earlier than I wanted to. Sorry. Let me skip ahead. It's around here. This is something that I explore with Charles Murray next week as well, the growing possibility of white backlash in an age of identity, you know, the possibility that not white supremacists because they're out there and they've already got white identity stuff going on. But what about ordinary Joe and Jane working class white person who doesn't think of themselves especially as being white until you remind them day in and day out with your critical race theory informed arguments that they are white, that they are supremacists, that they are privileged, that they're whatever and what happens when they start embracing these notions of racial identity with with a zeal because after all, if we're going to live in a world of racial identities, the largest one of them is going to be white. I mean, it amazes me. So Tucker and I agreed about this. It amazes me that people haven't figured this out. They add up the Chinese and Koreans with the Mexicans and Puerto Ricans with the Nigerian immigrants with the African Americans descended from slaves and they find a number that's bigger than 50% soon enough. And then they declare white people are going to be in a minority. What they haven't figured out is that if white people actually are a race, self consciously thinking of themselves as a race, they're going to be the largest of the groups by far. Even when they're less than 50%, they're still 45%. Black people are 13% of the population. Latinos are 18% of the population. So do you really want that? And we had Tucker and I an extended discussion about why you don't really want to encourage a world in which white people come to think. They say they already do. No, no, they don't. They're at the fringes they do. But ordinary Jane and Joe are not walking around thinking about themselves as I'm a white person. What are white people's interests and so on? So we had a spirit to. So I completely agree with what you just said. I think that it's absolutely right. I think the biggest fear is that we move further towards tribalism. That we expand the scope of tribalism. Right now, much of the tribalism is being driven by the left and much of that is being driven by African Americans on the left. But if we expand that tribalism to include whites as a group, as a tribe, the violence, the oppression, the authoritarianism. And by the way, some of you think they're your allies, these white supremacists, these white tribalists are your allies. But as soon as they're done with whatever is on the left, they'll go after whoever they think is an individualist, whoever doesn't fit. So the real danger is we continue that instead of the response to CRT, instead of the response that left being individualism, the sanctity of the individual, the value of the individual, that the response be no, we are whites, we are smarter, we are what, whatever. Rights aren't the smartest. That that be the standard, that the tribalism be the standard. That's the end of freedom in this country. That's the real danger. Luckily in America, particularly over the last 50 years, we've moved away from viewing each other as members of races, of races. And what CRT is going to push people is to get back to that, is to get back to a view of race. And going back to that view is horrific. I've said often that I don't think race is a thing. It doesn't exist. It is a creation of pseudoscientists. It's a creation of racists. And to the extent that we're going to now embrace more and more people in this culture are going to embrace racism. And it'll be caused by the left. That is scary. That is truly a scary notion. And that's the worst damage, I think, that CRT is going to do. It's going to drive this country further and further towards greater and greater racism, towards greater and greater oppression, towards less and less freedom. And you've seen that already. Now just in case you're like, well, Glenn Lowry, he's black and Iran and Glenn Lowry, they're anti-white, whatever the hell that means, instead, we want to hear what somebody like Charles Murray has to say. Charles Murray is one of those good guys that some of you, some of you just love, Charles Murray. So let's listen to Charles Murray. Glenn Lowry's going to start and he's going to let Charles Riff, and let's see what Charles Murray thinks the real threat is as a result of CRT and as a result of all this horror on the left. Then you can watch this on YouTube. This is a 15-minute segment of the interview. I'm only going to play a few of them in three or four minutes. Did you can watch the whole thing where he talks about the left, but it's interesting to talk about, to watch what he says, what he's going to say in the segment that I've got here. I know for many people, Charles Murray is a massive hero because of his work on IQ that validates for some people this sense of superiority because according to Charles, they have, because they're a part of a group that has high IQ, they therefore are superior. But Charles Murray is pretty old. But all right, let's see what Charles has to say. I've met Charles. I don't know if you know, but we spoke at the same conference a few years ago. He's a really, really nice guy. So we had a chance to chat. Let me play this one second. Let me find it. There we go. Press play. Without yet another rough. Whoops. Why am I again on the wrong time stamp? Oh, I switched the two times. I'm sorry. I'll put the other video on this time stamp and put this time to time on the one that I meant for the other video. All right. There we go. Now fixed. Go. Let me see if I'm getting you. So there's a threat from the left and there's a threat from the right. You haven't talked about the threat from the right yet. The threat from the left around a kind of relativism that makes racially equal outcomes the God of their attention and then looks away from facts and kind of anti-rational and things like I can't explain differences amongst individuals and their earnings in the labor market by reference to amongst other things differences in their cognitive ability. Give an example of that. But what is the threat from the right? I like the way characterizes, by the way, the threat from the left. It's about equality of outcome. It's about irrationality, the rejection of reason or rejection of rationality. I mean, Glenn Lauri is really good. If you want to see people fighting the CRT, I mean really fighting. Watch Glenn Lauri and John McQuota. I mean, these guys are really smart and they know the enemy and they're really fighting him. So he has a good sense of who the enemy on the left actually is. But let's get in on what Charles has to say. This is where disaster is looming the closest. And I'm going to give a somewhat different take on it than probably other people have. Now notice, this is where disaster is the most. This is where it's the worst. Where? I'm not really worried about the white supremacists and the white nationalists. I think they're a very small component of the right. I'll tell you who I'm worried about. I'm worried about all of the working class and middle class whites who have had it beaten into their, you know, they can't turn on the TV without yet another reference to the fact that they are bad people, that they have a white privilege, that they have been the cause of blacks problems and the problems of people of color in general and that they had better to be their ways or else. And an awful lot of these people are angered by this in a very visceral way. They're saying to themselves, hey, I have black colleagues at work, Latino worker co-workers, and people in my neighborhood. And I treat them with respect. And I treat them with friendship. I have not behaved and as a racist, I am trying to raise my kids and get them through college and make ends meet. And I'm working my ass off. And I sure don't see that I have any white privilege. And so there, you will not see an in-depth reporting on this kind of white person by the mainstream media. At least I haven't seen it. That's got to be a big number of people. And now let's get to the specifics here. Blacks constitute 12.7% of the population as of 2020. Latinos are about 18% of the population. And let's face it, an awful lot of the energy for the progressive critical race theory is coming from blacks specifically. So now you've got 13% of the population there. Non-Latino whites still constitute 60% of the population. That's way down from 30, 40 years ago, but it's still 60%. What is the proportion of that 60% who are really, really getting pissed? What is the proportion of them who are, and here's where the danger is, but are starting to say to themselves, well, guess what? I'm an identity too. And you want to play identity politics? OK, we can go with that playbook. And if you get a substantial proportion of whites who not just voted for Donald Trump, you can have voted for Donald Trump for all sorts of reasons that doesn't make you far right. But it's no longer that. It's no longer political in the sense it was before. It's a much more racially grounded fight than it was before. Now, do I know for a fact that you have this phenomenon going on? I can point to indicators. But how much of that is the result of the last couple of years? And how much of that has been growing because of white middle class and working class anger at that the elites that goes back to the 1990s? I don't know about that. I'm saying that if whites start to play identity politics, then basically we're facing some kind of disaster. I don't know how it's going to play out. All right. Charles Moe. Not me. Not Glenn Lowery. Not some other person you don't know. Charles Moe is saying that disaster is going to come when whites stop playing identity politics. That that is the real danger that this country faces. And what can I say? As you know, I agree completely. I've been saying this for years now. This is not new to me. It is truly scary. What we need today, what I call the new intellectual, would be any man or woman who is willing to think. Meaning any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, not by feelings, wishes, wins, or mystic revelations. Any man or woman who values his life and who does not want to give in to today's cult of despair, cynicism, and impotence and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages and to the role of the collectivist roads. All right. Before we go on, reminder, please like the show. We've got 163 live listeners right now, 30 likes. 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