 And then go to the title company, pick up the check. The first time this happened, it was like, it was a life-changing moment. You have to listen to how this deal plays out. This is what whole ceiling just hugs at your emotions, dude. I emailed the buyer and all three of my partners and I was like, please tell me these numbers are not as bad as I think they are. All four of them, dude, those are terrible. The NOI, they said was 104, turned out to be like 70. And that decreases the value a lot. He just got suddenly turned on a 50K offer because the guy couldn't close for two months. We said, hey, we'll give you 22,000, we'll close in 10 days. Which is literally unheard of. You go to an apartment or say a house in Phoenix, they're asking 2,000 a month. Say, hey, I'll give you the 2,000 a month as long as you let me rent it out in Airbnb and he'll make $5,000 a month. I think the most beautiful thing is that you can always, you can do whatever you want, you can always change your story and there's no limits. Boom, what's up, everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host, Alan Sakeon. We are now gonna be talking about real estate. We have Austin Koss joining us on the show. What's up, Austin? Alan, how you doing? Thanks for coming back on. It was great, yeah. Usually I know when you're coming to town and you just hit me with the text a couple days ago and I was like, let's go. I know we did this a couple months ago. Yeah, last time was January. I think it was going back from Christmas and then that's when you were in town. That was when round one was and you were progressing in your entrepreneurial endeavor and now we're gonna be unpacking the progress. I'm pumped for this. So those that don't know Austin's background, he's a real estate investor, focused on locating off market properties, managing short and long-term rentals and investing into long-term value at apartment complexes. You can find the links in the bio below to metastomecap.com. We buy homesufalls.com and toptiermg.com. All right, Austin, let's start things off with one of our favorite questions to ask our guests. What are your thoughts on the direction of our world? Yeah, good question. I knew something like this was gonna be thrown my way. I would say I just have some thoughts just on the political climate because that obviously takes everyone's talking about it and my biggest fear is I think it's becoming, at least in America, where there's so much divide it's becoming embarrassing to the fact that we're not even talking about real issues in this country anymore because it's election season. So literally from now until election season it's literally gonna be one side trying to take down the other side not talking about any issues. It's just gonna be total chaos and it's gonna play into Trump and then Trump's gonna get reelected in my opinion by a landslide and then it's gonna be four more years of chaos and then, I don't know, it's a time where there's a lot of uncertainty and I think it's interesting just to kinda analyze cause then there's stuff going on internationally. I try not to pay attention too much to all that stuff just cause I mean we're entrepreneurs, we gotta be laser focused on what we're doing but I mean, I don't know, sometimes in the news you just turn on the news and it's just like what's going on here, I don't know. The sense making mechanism for civilization is so important and the tribalism and echo chambers and cognitive ease and all the biases that we have and the algorithms and news feeds that exist right now in the corrupted business plans focused on the attention economy, all of these things are playing out into a wrecking of our sense making mechanism that we need, we need to be able to make sense of the existing social fabric and how to make it better when you have polarized perspectives on given issues that are just trying to hurt other people rather than actually listen to each other and try and make progress. We have a very sensitive time ahead of us and if we want to make the change, we need to work on that sense making mechanism. I completely agree and what do you think about the media part of it? Did you see the article at the New York Times? They hired a team just to focus on the Russia investigation and now that that's gone, now they have a brand new team just trying to talk about Trump's racism. So that's not even, that's not reporting. Would you agree? I think that's the most dangerous part is that the media is becoming ridiculous. Especially the mainstream media, we keep hearing it from Trump but it's like, I mean, you literally can't trust it, it's opinions. It's not reporting, it's mostly opinions and they don't tell you that it's an opinion article either. It's just like, that's sad. Mainstream media is also being, has some gatekeepers. It's called kind of like the gated institutional narrative that kind of protects whatever stories are being distributed around the planet. That's why independent media is actually really, really important and for people to fund independent media is critical right now. So what you can do is you can focus on a sense making mechanism and you can focus on trying to find ways to impact yourself, your own divine connection to source and work on yourself. And then that immediately affects your family, your community, your entire social fabric around you. So it really starts from within and then that usually catalyzes significant change around the world. But it has to start from within and it also has to start also from a realization that some of the things outside of us need to be updated from its archaic fabrics. Okay, let's do where we've been going in the last nine months. So where have things, what's transpired for you and the guys in the last nine months? Yeah, so I think nine months, yeah, so that was in January. That was when me and Dylan and another partner, we had just gotten started, just kind of wholesaling, finding off market properties for investors, just that process, we hadn't made a deal. Let's talk about that for a little bit. Off market properties and wholesaling. So properties that are not listed on the market. So owners that want to just get rid of their homes and they just decide but they don't wanna list it, they just wanna work with someone. Yeah, well I'll give you an example. I mean say there's a $200,000 house, somebody's lived in for 20 years, not in good shape at all. Like it would be worth $200,000 if it was like this house, kept up nice and clean, then it could be listed. But a lot of these people don't take care of it. They would have to put in money before they could even list it or try to sell it as is. But then pay realtor fees anyways. So a lot of times they'll just be like, hey we don't wanna use realtor, we just want you to give us an offer, we wanna close as quickly as possible. Can you do that? And then a lot of times they even say like we're willing to take a substantial discount. So and the reason this is so valuable is because right when I got into real estate I tried to find all my deals online, Zillow, all these different spots. And I quickly realized you cannot find good like fix and flips, good rentals because maybe it's probably just because it's in a good market right now. But everything's so, there's so many deals out there that people are selling for higher prices. So there's not that many deals on market. So these investors that are, you know, hoping that I can find these deals, they're like starving for deals. Like right now I have way more buyers than deals right now because no one can find good deals. So that's where it becomes a very valuable thing. And then it's obviously the better deals you find, the better you get paid for it. So obviously if you provide a service you're gonna get paid for it. What are you doing with the property? You have to buy it, if it's a $200,000 property you buy it for what, $100,000? And then you have to do some sort of renovating to it in order for it to be able to go on market and be sold? I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example of the first deal we actually closed. So we got a lead, we hired a cold caller because at this time we were at State Farm. We just couldn't like prospect throughout the day. We were talking about that. So we actually hired a cold caller from the Philippines for like eight bucks an hour. And so we got our list of like a thousand and she got this lead and then after work called the guy long story short, his dad died 10 years ago it was his dad's house, it's vacant now in Baltic, South Dakota, small town in north of South Dakota. And he's been trying to, he wanted to like renovate it. His life happened, you know, he never came around to it. So he's like, I just wanna get rid of it. He said I need $30,000 for it. I'd like that. Some property back taxes, yadda yadda yadda. Went out there, told him couldn't give you a 30. You know, is there any wiggle room? He said, yeah, definitely just give me an offer. And then I said, all right, you know, best we can do is 15, yadda yadda, long story short. We got it under contract. So signed a purchase agreement between me and the seller, you know, his name's Ryan. And then for, it was $17,500 a contract purchase agreement that I was gonna out buy it from him for $17,500. But I have the option to assign this contract to another buyer. So I have the option I can do either at this point. So once I get into the contract, I actually already had a buyer who said he'd pay 25 for it. So I called the buyer, said hey, got it under contract. What's the best you can do? For various reasons, he agreed for 23.5. So I signed it to him 23.5. The difference between that, what is that, $3,500? Six, six thousand. Tarot map, so the difference is that. So I sent both of those documents to the title company. They do all the work at closing. I don't even have to show up to closing. What was this last part? You sent this buying agreement. You're buying it for $17,500 from the owner. The buying agreement says in the contract that you can then assign the whole contract to another buyer that's gonna be buying it from you. Okay, and they're buying it for 23.5. Yep. Okay. You gave that, they agree to that. Everyone's agreed on that. So the seller doesn't even need to know that you're doing this other part of it. He doesn't need to know. I told him just because I'd like to be transparent because I think at the title company they can probably see, I don't know, I actually don't know this for sure if they can see the price that I signed it for. But I just told him, I said, hey, got a buyer that likes this. He asked if he could pay me a fee, if he could get the deal. They've never had an issue with it. But to your point, yeah. So I got that one contract and they got the assignment contract was just different contracts, sent both contracts to the title company. To the title company. Which does, like title search. They're the ones that make it official. They're the ones that actually. So, and then at closing, the seller and end buyer, they're the ones that actually show up to the title company. I don't. And once both parties signed, Getty calls me or emails me and says, hey, your check's ready, come pick it up. And then go to the title company, pick up the check. The first time this happened, it was like, it was a life changing moment because like, I thought I was so intimidated about the whole process. I didn't think it would do it. And so many things came up through this title process. And I was like, this is gonna work. You need to get any sort of licensing in order to pair together a seller with a buyer. You don't need any. It's the only way to get paid for broker in real estate without a license. And I actually had to talk to the South Dakota Real Estate Commission because a bidder agent actually called me, and he said he's gonna report me because you have to have a license. And I was like, go for it. Because I knew I didn't. Like, I even had a lawyer tell me it was illegal, but I knew it wasn't. So Real Estate Commission called me up and I just told him exactly what I was doing. And it's funny because he's like, yeah, technically you're right because that specific issue has never been addressed in the South Dakota law. And I was like, sounds good. So let me know if I haven't any other issues and I haven't heard from him since. And I was gonna call up that agent, but not worth it. And this is called then just buying and selling off market properties is what this is called. Yeah, it's called Wholesaling Real Estate. Wholesaling Real Estate. Why is the word wholesaling used? Well, I think, I mean, you can wholesale anything. Basically just buying discounted things. You can buy discounted watches. Buying discounted things and selling them. That's Wholesale. Yeah, okay, that's what it's called. Finding off market discounted, deeply discounted and best in property. Deeply discounted properties. Because think about this, think about this. I mean, if Apple stocks $100, you can't buy it for 50, but technically real estate, you kind of the seller agrees to it. So the right situation. If the seller of the stock does two. No, Apple can never allow that insider trading. It's illegal. If someone owns Apple stock or sells, and wants to sell it on the stock market for a disc, because they themselves just want to. So they could. I think they would have to gift it. I think they would have to gift the stock. They would have to gift the stock. I think they would. Because you could, if you didn't know who the buyer was, then it would be different than if you knew who the buyer was and you were selling it under. Even then, I see where this is all going, that there are likely rules and regulations here because you can't sell under the current bid, the current ask price for it. Yeah, and that's why it's so cool, because it's the only asset you can actually buy, like legitimately discounted. Like we. Well, you could buy cars or you could buy any type of other. You would list watches or boats or planes or, really no good investment stuff. No, those are really good assets. Those are depreciating assets. Yeah, these, exactly. You can't really buy an appreciating asset discounted. Interesting. Except a real estate. And like, maybe an old car, even an old car. See, like, yeah. Like some of those cars I appreciate. Or like an old, just an old like vintage item that could appreciate it, depending on what item. Some weird stuff like that, yeah. Okay, but these are like bigger deals. You can get 6,000 bucks. So, okay, so how did you, the person in the Philippines that was doing the calling identified the person that wanted to sell it? That was the first identification moment. Yep, so we got a list from actually a different VA, a virtual assistant, got me a list of like a thousand in Minnehaha County, which is where Sioux Falls is at. A thousand, a list of a thousand properties where absentee owners, which means the owners do not live at the property. So it's either vacant, it's a rental, what a second house, whatever, they don't live there. And I just have- How did this person find this list? So it's all public record, but I will say in some counties, it's a little bit, in some counties, it's harder than others. Like it's harder in South Dakota, like we're moving to Arizona and down in Arizona, a title company will give us all these lists for free. But in South Dakota, it's actually pretty hard to get some of these. So like- Can you do what you're gonna do in Arizona? Yeah, it's actually easier, but a lot more competition. Okay, so buying and selling. That's where I'll start at basically Minnehaha. We'll still start it in Phoenix. All the gurus, the teachers are in Phoenix. All the big players are in Phoenix. So like a good spread in South Dakota, like the difference, that's the spread of your Simon fee. Good ones, 10,000 in South Dakota, there's 50,000 happening all the time in Phoenix. Because people are irrational down there, bigger markets, they just get irrational, especially in a good economy. So it's gonna be, but there's a lot more competition. So we're still, we're gonna see how it is. Because I like Sioux Falls because there's not that much competition. I know the market very well. Now I'm going down there, totally new market. But you have a little bit of tentacles. You have tentacles and Sioux Falls that are staying here. Some of your team is gonna be staying. Yep. Okay. Exactly. Okay, and then how did you find the buyer for this first one that you're giving us an example of? So right when we started out, we had to find buyers before we started looking for deals. We knew we had to get a buyer. Because if you get a deal, they would say, if you get a good enough deal, you'll find a buyer. But I was like, I want some buyers. So all I did was we created a website. And it's, there's a company called Carrot that specializes in websites for real estate investors. Cause you know what an opt-in ad is? Like the ClickFunnels, like you click here to get my free e-book. And then you click, get free e-book, but then they have your email address. So my website had a similar opt-in page. Click here to get local off-market real estate properties. And then put that on literally Craigslist. And within the first probably two weeks, had like 40 buyers. And then that channel kind of cool off a little bit. But and then just some networking, go to meetings and you find people, you talk about what you do on the golf course I've gotten cash buyers. But the first batch of them for this deal, the first batch was from that online ad that I put. And then I actually met up with them quite a few times before the deal. So that's the big thing. Like some people say you need a ton of buyers, but I think you need, you know, some good ones, just a few good ones that actually can close. And then the idea would be you hopefully don't invest like 600 hours into this close. Cause then you'd only be making 10 bucks an hour. Yeah. And I would love, yeah, maybe eventually we'll talk about like some of the failures cause a couple months ago, I invested so much time into this massive deal that was going to pay us a lot of money, fell through right at the end. And we spent so much time that our pipeline wasn't very full. So we're still recovering from that like month that we thought these two deals, big deals, we're both going to close. And it was a shot to the heart. Like we were like, but I think it happened for us. It happened. Yeah. Because we were going to learn. Cause we were like, dude, this is easy. We're going to set the deal to rolling. And we had like five in the pipeline. We were just like, this is too easy. So I think it humbled us. It brought us back to zero. And now we're like, now we're back in the hungry mode. But I think you need a, when you're starting out, I think that you need to get like that punch in the face a couple of times. Cause you, my dad was like, geez, this looks too easy. I'm like, fuck, it feels too easy. But then it quickly like the universe is like, yeah, life's not this easy. But teaches you a lot. It's all lessons land. That's all it is. So then walk us through what the next deals were. Yep. So there was a, there was one deal that it was actually, oh, you're going to love this. So we got a call, Dylan got a call, said, Hey, saw your advertisement. I liked someone house to you. What I didn't ask any questions. Just went over there the next day and met with them. And they said they, I quote from the, one of the husband. Yeah. I've been, I've been, I drive by or signed your billboard every day. And I just thought I'd finally give it a try in my mind. We don't have a billboard, but there is somebody that doesn't have a billboard. We buy houses, Sioux Falls, where we buy home Sioux Falls. So we have to leave from their billboard. I was just not going to say anything. I was just like, I looked at Dylan and I was just like, yeah, you know, I'm glad he gave us a call. But like, I think, I mean, but the situation was 185,000 hour house. Where is it located? Cliff Avenue, over by Sioux Falls. You know where it's at. What's the intersection? It's a 57th and cliff. A little bit, a little bit north from there. It, but it's on cliff. So it didn't sell for like 190 of the year before. So she's like, Hey, we need to get out of this. We'll just take, we'll just pay off the mortgage. We can pay off the mortgage. This is what it's at. What's your offer? We're like 140 and she accepted it. And then we assigned it to one of my good cash buyers for 149. So that was a good one. And then... Congrats. That was like right after. So I was like, okay. And then... And how did he, where is this? Where is the trusted third party that says that this is, what was that person called again? The title company. Title company. There's multiple title companies and you have to pick one that's trusted or... So yeah, we didn't, I didn't talk about that much. And that was actually crucial because before I even started getting deals, I needed a title company that could actually execute the deal. And since Sioux Falls, they, all the new trends just get to South Dakota last. It seems like most of these people had never even heard of wholesaling. Like they didn't think you could do it. Thought it was illegal. So I had to call every single all five title companies in Sioux Falls. Finally, one of them said that they could do it, but I had to talk to the president because he's the only one that deals with it. So like, it took me a week of kept calling this guy. Like, I'm getting closer to a deal. I need to know. Finally, he called me back at work. We had an hour convo, told me all this stuff. He said, yep, you can do it. Whenever you come across these, just make sure you email it to me because I'm the only one that knows how to do it. So he, like the first deal, he, I have so many screw ups and he just held me through it. He's like, no, I'll fix this. Not a big deal. So he was, that was crucial. Because like- What were the screw ups in that? Like within like the contract, just little things like- Like what? So one of a big thing that we, one of our big selling points is that we pay all the closing costs. Like if we say 135, you're getting 135 no matter what. In the first deal, I didn't, like I said, buy or to pay all closing costs. But there was a couple costs. There was a title insurance fee and one other fee I forgot it was and I didn't specify. So right before closing, he had a call me. He's like, hey, who's supposed to pay these fees? And I was like, buy or yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then he fixed that right on the right last minute. So stuff like- What were those fees like a grand or two? Yeah, so usually closing costs, if there's no real turn wall, probably only like three to 5% of the total purchase. But I mean, you know, 150,000. What's that? What is that? You know, it's a decent amount. But it's, I think it's more so. I mean, they're saving $3,000. It's more about the hassle because we can close quicker. But yeah, I mean, the title company's crucial. So that one went well and there's a couple more deals. And then really the big one, they really, this kind of took off everything. I don't know if we want to get into like the apartments, but this is kind of how- Let's do it now, sure. This is kind of how the apartment that all started. I had a deal. It was one of my, like my third deal. I sent it to all my cash buyers. And one of them called me, left me a voicemail over the weekend and I didn't really, I was like, oh, must be interested. Called him up and he goes, hey, I'm actually not interested in the property because I can't buy anything else until, you know, I sell my apartment that I have in Iowa. And I was like, what? I was like, cool. I was like, really? What kind of apartment do you have? He's like 48 units, you know? It's cat. It's, it brings in the NOI net operating income, which is where you, that's how you value anything. He's like NOI, 104,000, you know? We could probably, you know, 600,000. We could probably sell it to you for, and I was just like, wow. Cause I've analyzed enough big deals where I knew, I don't know a lot about that yet cause I haven't bought one, but I knew those numbers were absurd. Net operating income after all expenses of managing the property and renovation. Besides debt, minus the debt. Minus the debt. If there's debt, if there's a loan on it, it's minus that. Okay. So the debt service. And then, but obviously. 600,000 for 48 units? It's in small town of Iowa, and they each unit only got like, 500 a month or so. 450, let's use the problem. Cause the NOI is big, 104,000. And I had a buyer who was like, for sure. Let's do that right now. Let's get this going. And then I, and then he's like, you know, why don't we just go in it together? Like, you know, why don't we do a joint venture? If you can raise some cash, you know, then we can do it that way. And I was like, holy cow, cause my long term vision was always to find apartments, bigger deals, and then have investors. Yeah, recurring income. Yeah, well the investors buy into the deal, I manage the whole deal, yeah, idiot. That's apartment syndication. But I thought I was. That's apartment syndication. That's apartment syndication. When you get investors to come on to go into the purchase of an apartment complex. And you manage the whole thing, including the person that manages the actual property afterward. And then you pay out the investor's portion and you just take a management fee of this entire process. And typically, you know, typically if you have 10 investors each in at 10%, you want to be one of those at 10%. Cause you, you don't have to do it this way, but you want your money aligned with their money. Cause I mean, think about it. If this guy had no money invested, you know, but so, and I knew that was that, that was the long game, but I didn't think I could get there that fast. And then some like, holy cow, I could do this right now. So I called up a lawyer. I was like, how do I do this? You got a 20 K legal fees to get all these documents. But he's like, it's doable for sure. We ended up, we ended up where he just wanted to, he just wanted to pay me 25 K just to do the deal himself. So I was going to wholesale it. I had it under contract for 575. He was going to pay 600 as long as, cause we were going to do a non-refundable earnest deposit. Usually when you get into an apartment deal, there's so much due diligence where it's like within 30 days you can back out, get all your money back. But these guys wanted to do like, since they were giving us such a big discount, they wanted to do like $10,000 non-refundable deposit. And I was like, okay, well I haven't seen your numbers confirmed. So if we can do that, then we'll for sure do that. So he's like, yeah, not a problem. So he sent us over all the numbers and I was like, all right, this is the last thing. Then we're going to get this deal closed. Everyone's on board. Title company's on board. Everyone is ready to go. And this took about a month of my time. I drove down to Cherokee, Iowa, visited the whole property. Talked about a month? Talked, yeah, back and forth. Talked to these guys back and forth like every day for a month. And finally, and then I looked at the numbers. I was on the golf course and I got my email. And I probably looked at it for like five seconds and they didn't look as good as I thought. So I emailed the buyer and all three of my partners and I was like, please tell me these numbers are not as bad as I think they are. All four of them. Dude, those are terrible. And then, so the NOI, they said it was 104, turned out to be like 70. And that decreases the value a lot. So basically, the deal fell through. Told the guy like, hey, you lied to me. I mean, I'm sorry. And then I never heard from him again. So I took about a freaking month. And I was so- You learned a lot. Learned a lot, but that was 25. Oh my God. You were hoping to make. I thought it was there. Thought it was there. I was like. You learned a lot about apartment syndication, which you're really interested in going into. This is interesting. These like lessons from this hire. The university just always throws you lessons. It's crazy. You have to see them as lessons to learn from them. It's all about your perspective. And everything's coming at us. But it's like, how do you perceive what they are? Are these things harming you or hurting you? Or are they there to teach you and free to stay resilient? I think the best quote is like, life doesn't happen to us, it happens for us. And I didn't hear that until recently. It's like, if you just simply think about it, if everything, anything that happens in life, if you always be like, oh, why'd that happen to me? Like, what did it teach me? Dude, my perspective has changed so much. Like, same thought, that's what we did. Cause like, this fell through and Dylan goes, dude, don't worry, don't worry else, it's happened for us. And I was just like, yep, let's go, baby. Like, it actually like legitimately helps you. Okay, so what are the other upcoming deals? So we had a, well, right now we're actually not wholesaling a deal because me and two partners are moving down to Phoenix. So we don't want to just leave everything we've built in Sioux Falls. So my good buddy from college, Ethan, he's moving up to Sioux Falls. And basically the agreement was, you know, we're not gonna like pay him a salary. We'll give him a percentage of the whole like, of like the entity and we'll buy him a duplex. So he doesn't have to pay for rent. So basically we're getting him a duplex. This is kind of a universe type thing too. Cause it was coming down to the wire rack. I was trying to find a duplex. I was like, I was trying to, cause I wasn't, I was not going to look online. Cause the big thing with duplexes, if you're going to live in one side is you've got to make sure that the side you're living on is smaller. Oh, it doesn't have to be, but like, you want to make sure that the other side can pay the mortgage so you can live for free. And I happened to cold call this guy, like wholesaling and he wasn't taking me seriously. I had talked to this guy for probably 20 minutes. He thought I was just dipshit. And finally I kept like, I was persistent. I was like, Chris, I need to buy a duplex. I'm not f-ing around. I would love to buy this duplex. Already serious about buying. Finally he's like, yeah, I mean, yada, yada, yada. And we finally agreed on a price. And we're actually going to like, he's going to, Ethan's going to live in like this bottom unit that's one bed, one bath. And the top unit is like the whole house. So it's like four beds, two baths, can probably get 1,400 a month. And our mortgage is going to be about 809. Yeah, that's huge. So it's going to be, so even if we got 1,000, like we're not going to, you know. Yeah. So it's like, that's not a big thing to agree with. I know my friends so much about this. It's like, why would you pay rent or buy a house when you could just buy a duplex and live for free? That's my two cents on real estate because it just makes too much sense. Unless you're in San Francisco, it's kind of hard. There are no duplexes in SF. I don't think you could wholesale in San Francisco. I wonder what, San Diego, Utah, and I don't know how to live there. Oh, interesting. That California is not only yet pricing, but also the regulations and rules that are there. There's these like in-law units and things like that. Oh, yeah. They're kind of interesting. If you wanted to maybe live in one of those and rent the house, things like that. That's sort of how this one is. Yeah, that's right. It really is. And also just all the stuff that we're going to talk about with Airbnb, there are a lot of crackdowns that are going on right now. A lot of people are kind of pissed off at people for just buying houses and just Airbnb'ing them and increasing. Really? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's interesting the comparison between how hotels are trying to get people mad at Airbnb so hotels can try and keep more of the market share meanwhile. It's interesting that it is being democratized and people being able to sleep in extra rooms and stuff like that. That's totally cool. At the same time, it's like there are artists and entrepreneurs that are trying to be creative in these metropolises and they can't afford to live there because people are buying second, third, fourth, fifth homes and just trying to rent seek. And rent seeking is a major problem in real estate. It basically came down to you are literally adding no value to the economy. All you're doing is increasing the price of the rent at that property and then what you're doing is you're making it harder for artists or entrepreneurs or other leaders that are coming through that are trying to make value additions to the metropolis area and to the world. You're making it harder for them and you're actually also kicking out other people that live in those areas that can no longer afford those prices. So there's gotta be some sort of a deal, a balance here where we do a let people go and do cool things like Airbnb but if you're really trying to make money, bring something of value into the world. Make an idea happen to come to fruition. Don't just jack up prices or buy properties just to jack up prices so that you can try and make money on that. People do that because it's easy but what they're doing is they're literally hurting creativity. Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean real estate I guess there's not, it's pretty cut and drive, it's just a capitalist thing. I know what you mean about the rent seeking and if you're not really adding value and that's why I feel like if you're gonna be in real estate you really do gotta have a clear purpose of why you're in real estate because I think, I wanna change my purposes to like, I think investing in real estate's better way than investing in 401k. I think it's the best investment you can make but I don't think enough people wanna do it because they don't know how to do it and I wanna provide that vehicle for them to do it. How would someone ethically invest into real estate without rent seeking that type of thing? Well, I would say, I don't know but I would say everyone needs to invest in something to grow their money. So I mean, the moral thing I guess why do you invest in bonds, I don't know. Like, I know what you were saying but at the same point, people who have money, they need to preserve their money because they don't wanna lose it and I know we could go back and forth on that. But as far as I mean, investing in real estate for the moral, is that kinda like? In whatever thing that's being invested into is in a sense, are you reshaping rules and regulations to propagate your own market advantage or are you trying to invest in things that can then unleash the creative potential of other people from around the world? I think, see, I think, I think that, I think once you get into development, I think that's where you can get into the creativity, where you can develop things for specific businesses, stuff like that. Okay, we can revisit the question. That's an interesting question, I don't wanna answer it because I mean. It's a tough one, it's ethics, it meshes ethics with capitalism. Is investing in real estate unethical? I mean, if you're price-gaging. No, no, no, it's not unethical to invest in real estate, it's probably more about this whole idea of rent-seeking. Because that's the term that I haven't even thought about. It's a really important term. Is it something that happens in California? It happens everywhere around the world now. Just if you have money, what you do is you go and potentially buy a second property and then you don't live in that property but what you've done is you've bought a property that you then do things like just say, hey, the rates in this general metropolis are around, let's say $3,000 a month for this house. And so what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna put this house up on the market for that amount of money. Once that's cranking and making me money, I'm gonna buy another house in the metropolis. Put that one up for three as well. Over time, I'm gonna see my neighbors that put a house up for three, five. I'm gonna start putting mine up for three, five. I'm gonna do my best to try and get the tenants the least amount of rights possible so that I can most easily and effectively increase the rent to 3,500. That extra 500 a month is so meaningful to me being a multimillionaire. It's so important for me to get the extra 500 a month. Whereas literally for a tenant that has, if it's a four bedroom unit that each one of them is paying about a thousand bucks a month or so, those four people that are living there likely don't even have the extra $500 to foot for a bill for their car or a bill for their healthcare or anything. So there really has to be a deep amount of empathy that goes from people that are owning these properties and people that are renting them. I think the free market kind of determines that though because you can't just like raise it and I mean, because people will go somewhere else. But I think with real estate though, like you are providing something legitimate. Like you're providing housing, especially if you're doing Airbnb's, like you're providing a nice vacation around but it's better than a resort. So I mean in that aspect, I mean. There's a lot of nuance on this topic. There really is. Yeah, I mean, you're right. I know what you're saying too. Well, you also have a different perspective because you live in literally the highest rented place in the world, probably the world. One of them, yeah. But at the same time, the people that own the properties, they can't just, the only reason they're increasing is because the other people are, you know. There's so much nuance on this subject. Yeah, I know what you're saying. Okay, so take us through the most recent then steps as you've been deciding to leave to also focus on the Tempe area in Arizona. So yeah, take us to this time period now. Yeah, so it's been an interesting transition. And we're actually, so we haven't really talked about it but me and two of my partners, Brady and Dylan, we're moving down to Phoenix. Brady, he's already there. Me and Dylan are leaving next Monday. And we're initially gonna do it in June but that's when our first couple of deals started rolling and we were just way too much going on. There's no way we were gonna be able to leave. So we pushed it back, like I said, because we didn't wanna just up and leave all the things, connections we made. So since then, the transition really has been getting our new partner, Ethan, a duplex, which has taken off a lot of my time. It's taken a lot of my time. But that's paying for itself, which is great. Which frees him up to do the Sioux Falls side of the wholesale. But there's gonna be a lot of, we're gonna have to train him because he's been working his job. So Dylan's been, he's done a big guide of training guide for him, which will be good. For future people that you've reviewed. Because now we're doing standard operating procedures. I didn't even know that was a thing in business, which is embarrassing. Because basically, you gotta be able to, if I died, somebody's gotta be able to pick up exactly what I'm doing. Know how to do it. So we've been developing that, so that Ethan knows what to do, so that he can kinda like, I mean, obviously we're gonna help him, but so he can kinda run on his own up here. And then just kinda getting into the, kinda repeating what we have done in the Phoenix market. So that's kinda where we're at now. Big transition mode. This week it's kinda gonna be like moving, moving down, getting out of these impacts. But yeah, it's been a process. This summer's been literally the most crazy summer. Learned the most. Failed the most. Total deals so far. Just three. Total of 25K though. 25K, three deals. And what was the last deal? So there was that house on Cliff 57 at the Baltic House that you first mentioned. What was the third one? Ah, what was it I'm sure I think. What was this deal? I'll think of it when I tell you about this other deal. Because there was another big deal that fell through when that apartment deal fell through. So that was a big dagger. Oh, this one, okay. This one was their six-year-old couple. Their son has been living there, paying them like cheaper rent for like 10 years. Stopped paying them rent. She just wanted to get rid of it. That one took a while, probably a month, but we bought it for 45. Where was it at? By Whittier. So like North, North Part of Sioux Falls. Actually a couple blocks east of downtown. Yeah. 40, 45. I was listening to this, so this is crazy. Pretty cheap, isn't it? Yeah, but listen to how this deal plays out. This is what holds it, just hugs at your emotions, dude. So 45. And I had a buyer line up at 65. Signed a contract. 65 contaged on inspection. And I was just a little weary about that. I was like, I mean, obviously he can tell that this is pre-run down. But he just wanted to like rent, get it like rent ready and just keep renting it out like a slumlord, which I don't really like that. I hate that type of stuff. Well, do you see what I'm saying about rent? Okay, so that type of stuff, I know what you mean, if you're not giving them a good place to live. You're literally a buyer to buy a property so that you can then rent it out. I get how this is a capitalism thing. I get it, but it's also very, very, very this line of nuance here is really tight. It is, it's really hard. I think it depends though, because what if you're giving them a good place to live? That's a legitimate service. All right, let's continue this, please. Okay, so it's out of your 65. I'm like, holy cow, 20K. And then Monday morning. Contention on inspection. Contention on inspection. And I had just this bad feeling. I was like, and this was on a Friday. I was like, ah, here we go. So then Monday morning, get a text, deals done, inspection, foundation issues. And I'm just like, dude, you saw these issues. Like it's 40, that's why it's 65. Like it's worth 150 if you actually fix everything. But he didn't want to, so he backed out. And at this point, I had three days. So when you sign one of these perks agreements, there's like a time period, like a due diligence period where I can back out. And I only had three days, or two days. It was a Monday. By the end of Wednesday is the last time I could back out else I had to buy it for 45,000. So like, so I'm like, oh my God. I have literally the rest of today, Tuesday, to find a new buyer. So I emailed all my buyers and I called a couple of them and I said, hey, I got a deal. Somebody just had it on a contract for 65. I'm willing to take a substantial discount. It's low as 48,000 if we can get a quick close. Cause at that point, I just wanted to like, make sure that I didn't screw over the seller. Cause if you start screwing the sellers, your whole company's like, that's bad. That's what the real estate condition does not want. So that's the big thing. Cause they're trying to protect the sellers, so. As in the seller already believes that you're able to take care of it. Exactly. So that's where the, so I was like, I mean, I couldn't have bought it, but I didn't really want to. Too much work for me. I don't want to. It's a big fix and flip project. And then it happened, so that was on Monday, that previous Saturday, I was up in Brookings at a baseball alumni thing and I was downtime, met this guy, happened to be a real estate investor, big-time investor. And that Monday, just had this guy's number for the first time, called him up and I said, hey, I got a deal for you. 48,000 dollars, told him the whole situation, I need an answer ASAP. He goes, awesome, I'm actually in Sioux Falls right now. I'll go take a look. Literally 30 minutes later, all right, I'll take it for 48. The guy just met two days prior. So like, we only made, you know, we didn't, we didn't make that much, but like, I was like, wow, sounds good. And then right out. He got out of it. Yeah, but see, here's where it took a turn. So here's where it took a turn, cause that's where everything was going pretty well. And then that owner of that deal, his good friend saw that he was selling it and he contacted us and hey, I have a duplex I want to sell. We go over, he accepted it for 28,000 dollars. And this is the best deal I've ever come across. Wait, 28,000 for a duplex? Yes. In where? It was, so it was like two blocks east of like Phillips Avenue or whatever. So like, right where development's coming and like the block over had already gotten a letter this year saying they can't sell to anybody except it's a Sioux Falls cause they're going to like tear them all down. So like this is prime location and it's a duplex, 28,000 dollars. Why was this guy trying to sell for that little? Because this guy was, it's all about the situation. What was this guy's situation? He needed some cash. I don't even know. He was trying to get out. He was just trying to get out. And this is the guy that sold his house for 45, his friend, his friend. He actually, while we were at that house, he actually drove up and said, hey, are you guys the ones that were buying up the whole block? Literally said that. And then like, so we wanted to visit this guy's house and I'm telling you the best that I ever came across, 28,000 dollars, a buyer. Oh, this hurts me. So I got it, we got it under contract on a Wednesday and I had a buyer going to go look at it on a Friday, 3 p.m. That same buyer, same buyer from Brookings. No, the same guy. The same guy. So I got another one for you. You want to come down and meet me at 3 p.m. So about 2.30, I get an email from the title company saying that there is $53,000 in liens against that problem. Oh, that's why he was doing it. No, he didn't know, he didn't know. Because the only reason I emailed the title company is he goes, hey, because he called Dylan, he's like, hey Dylan, I just, I think there's quite a few liens, I totally forgot, this deal might not happen. And I was like dude, don't worry about it, we'll be fine, we'll figure it out. So I emailed him, got it back, sure as hell, there's one for $1,000, one for $600, one for $19,000, one for $11,000, all of a sudden I'm like. What are those liens for? They were like judgment liens, I don't even know, I think they were just like, I don't even know how you get that many judgment liens. What is a judgment liens? Basically, I think they owed somebody money and then they took them to like court and said, hey, there's a judgment. And they put it against their property. Their property, because they didn't sell it, yeah. So when they sell it, so literally, I did this at 2.30, call up Brett, the buyer, he's coming off in Brookings, I called him the whole situation, he's like, well, I mean, you want me to still come take a look at it, like I think you can still get out of that. He's like, I think I've done that before, you can get those liens down or whatever. So he comes down, we look at it, he goes, well, let me know if you can get the liens figured out, so I'll pay $44,000, that's $12,000. I just heard him say it, knowing, I don't think this is gonna work. So we spent like the next two weeks, like trying to get the liens down. We got him down to like, 40. I was just like, dude, it's not gonna work. So that fell through, similar to when that apartment fell through. So, that was tough. Those are great lessons. Such great lessons. These are great lessons. Tell me, let me tell you about the, actually the coolest deal that we got, we didn't wholesale because it was too good of a deal. Got a call on Friday, this guy from California, like, hey, I got a couple of houses in Kenistota, got some hotels I need to sell, he had a diada, he had like a, his main hotel burned down in California because of like litigation, he wasn't gonna get all that money back for a couple of years, so we needed to sell all of his South Dakota assets. Long story short, we got a $90,000 house for $22,000. I could have wholesaleed it for 40 right at the close, but I was like, dude, this is an amazing deal. It brings in $850 a month. I just, my dad, I was like, hey dad, you wanna make some money? He loaned me $22,000, gave him 10% due when I sell it in 12 months, so there's no liens against it. We own this property free and clear and it brings in $850 a month and the tenant right now, that's living in it and wants to buy for $90,000 when the lease is up. That's the best deal I've came across, this deal, this house, like when I told somebody that I had it for $22,000. Why did he sell for only $22,000? Because he, the contingency was, I needed the $1,000 in escrow the next day and we needed to close in all cash within 10 days, that's unheard of. That is unheard of. 10 day calls all place because guess what? He said he turned down, he just got up and he turned down a $50,000 offer because the guy couldn't close for two months. We said, hey, we'll give you $22,000, we'll close in 10 days, which is literally unheard of. I come, this is before I asked my dad, I was like, I'll get away. I was like, Dylan, if you can negotiate and give this for $22,000, I will get the cash. Calls me back, he goes, we got it for $22,000, I was like, no fucking way, and then my dad is outside, I was like, dad, we got to talk. He was all about it, he loved it. He's like, where was this property? It's in Canestota, so it seems like it's Canestota. How far away is that from here? 30 minutes west. 30 minutes west of here? It's kind of, that's what it's. Past, no, before Mitchell, right? Yeah, good thing about single family homes is they still kind of keep their value because there's always going to be a buyer that's willing, they kind of want whatever. It's different than apartment in Canestota. But yeah, I mean, it was such a good deal. I had a couple buyers who were like, hey, like, one of those. Who can get $22,000 in cash for a property in 10 days? That's the thing, yeah. He just wanted to move it as fast as possible. And then he was trying to sell us this freaking, he had like a bunch of motels in small towns. He was trying to get us to like, he was giving us insane deals on these motels and we were trying to like sell them for them and buy them. But nobody wants them. He couldn't give us, he could not give us good enough numbers. He couldn't verify the expenses and income because his bokeh was terrible that all the investors were just like, we can't do it. But we could have gotten unreal deals on those too. So it's all about the situation. That's why it's cool, but I mean. Okay, so all right, let's get this last one. So we have there been four then total then with this one? Yeah, that's another one. Because it's about to close once the tenant finishes his lease, he's going to buy it. The tenant's going to buy it. Yes, we're the old now one. Well, yes, you have to pay for tax wise, we don't want to sell it. Because you buy right now, but I don't want to sell for 12 months. Do you have to pay 30% tax? Ooh, so that's, see that's one of the, see this is one of those little tiny, like anti, in a sense it's like, it's one of those little rules and regulations on capitalism that kind of makes it so that you can't just buy a property and then immediately sell it because you don't have to pay that 30% tax. Exactly. I wonder if that's across the nation or if that's state by state. It is. It's across the nation? Yeah, well it's, the difference is long term for short term capital gains, but like the only way you can get rid of paying taxes is if you put those proceeds directly into another real estate investment. Oh. So like you have to keep moving it forward. You do, yeah. So say I made 70K profit, took 20 of it, I'd have to pay tax on 20 of it, but the 50K could go into another property and not pay any taxes. Yeah. So that's why real estate's cool, if you can keep rolling it forward. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So that's the capital gains tax of 30%. Yeah. So that's why flippers can't, that's why, because think about it like flippers. Flippers who have to wait and renovate a whole year, they have to renovate and wait a whole year. Yeah, yeah. And then you can't 1031 within a year either because then like think about it, flippers could like flip one, 1031 not into another flip, but like they only like to do it if it's like long term investments. Like apartments. Okay. Okay. So these have been the successes and the failure. You gave us a couple examples of those. Awesome. Yeah, definitely. I think we did enough of those. Okay. So then what's this whole deal with the short and long-term rentals? What do you mean? I'll try to quickly go through this. So I watched a lot of YouTube and I was just one random night. I was just on, I was doing something. I had YouTube playing, I wasn't gonna pay attention. And for some reason it caught my attention. There was like this video is Grant Cardone again in Brian Page. And Grant always like brings on people like to talk about new things in real estate. And this guy was talking about how literally he'll manage other people's properties, put it on Airbnb forums with profit. So he started out where, you know, you go to an apartment or say a house in Phoenix, they're asking 2000 a month, say, hey, I'll give you the 2000 a month. As long as you let me rent it out in Airbnb and he'll make $5,000 a month. So he was making, he said he had 10 properties, making him like over a hundred K a month or like some ridiculous numbers. And I'm just thinking like in my head like, okay, that's a legitimate service that people could use. So I was like, that makes a lot of sense. But we were all so busy with wholesaling and like this apartment stuff where I was like, God, I just can't take on something else. Like it's just too much. I don't wanna just half-ass all these different things. So I was like, how do I get somebody else or how do I like execute this idea without like disrupting that? So I sent it to two of my good buddies, sent him that exact video, said hey, what are your thoughts? Both of them within 30 minutes, it's a 26 minute video. We're like, holy shit, we gotta do that. So within two weeks, it was really lucky because my one of the partners, Mitch, he was living in this downtown Sioux Falls apartment that for like two more weeks, I think, it was like two more weeks at the time. So we wanted to try it out. So he like took everything out of this apartment. It took us like a whole day, got this shit ready, learned everything about being the best Airbnb host. It's all about getting five stars and like we put it on Airbnb for like seven nights. We made it available for seven nights. Within 24 hours, all seven nights were booked. And so we like went through that process, you know, met with like, check them in, you had the adiata, it was actually, it was illegal, definitely illegal to do that. But we kind of wanted to get caught. Why was it illegal to do that? Because within the lease, you can't do that. Within like leases. Because he was still leasing it, yeah. But it was funny because his cousin was on the lease and he was just kind of living there for the summer because it was his cousin. But we kind of wanted the apartment owner to come to us because we wanted to be like, hey, I mean, this is how much money, and we can do this for any of your other faking units. Yeah, so we're like, all right, this works. And then it quickly progressed to my other partner, Reed, who lives in Boca, his girlfriend has somebody that owns two vacation homes down there, asked if we could do that for them. And then another one in Wisconsin, this guy, hit up one of our friends. The only person who knew we were doing it, somebody hit up her asking if she could help him do that. She sent us, we contact him. So we're in the process of those two because just literally three weeks ago we started this whole thing. And then just yesterday, Mitch went to visit two Sioux Falls lofts downtown. They were for rent. And he was just talking with the guy and the guy said, he just proposed it. Hey, will you let me do this? If I pay you the 1500 a month in rent, the guy was all about it. We're waiting to hear back on the contract details and we're gonna just see if we can do it. So it really comes down to, I think that's a legitimate service because I talked to a lot of people since then. People wanna stay in metropolises overnight or even in cities in the downtown areas and stuff. Give them a night or two nights or three nights. Owners want something that they guarantee that you pay them every month no matter what. And so you're trying to fill the rooms. You also have to hire a cleaning service to come in every one night or every five nights or however often people are coming in to you have to deal with the rating systems on Airbnb and all that type of stuff. So it is a lot of work. It provides a good service for people. It's understandable. At the same time, it does in a sense we do have to think about how it butterfly affects out and affects other people as well. Like literally if that guy at that apartment complex was to be like, oh my gosh, we can make three times as much money doing all of this on Airbnb. Why would I have long term year to year tenants? I should just do it all on Airbnb. If the market demands that and then he can fill all those units then in a sense the question would be what is actually more helpful for the creativity or for the productivity or for just the overall community as well of these areas? Is it that people can come through and be creative or is it better if long term people are there trying to be productive in the cities and communities? Or are we stripping out the communities from these cities and we're just having people that come through transiently over time just quickly so that they can do just a quick contribution? So this is all so complex in terms of like economics, community, creativity, productivity. It's very tough to get it all down but that's probably why this recipe is so complicated. And that's why it's probably also so difficult to have a nuanced conversation listing out all of the variables. This is why I want to do a like a center for economic simulation. Like I care a lot about this idea. Like what would it look like to make a digital twin of the planet and then actually be able to deploy like a universal basic income to 300 million Americans and like model what would happen so that way you don't have a bunch of people speculating or you know what would happen or like a half a percent tax on all Wall Street transactions. Like what would happen to the most wealthy people that have to pay that tax and then where would that money go and what would happen to the basic needs of the people that need that money? Could they live healthier and happier lives at the expense of just a tiny little percentage on Wall Street transactions? So this is a very interesting idea that we're currently trying to pass along to other friends that are working the simulation space to see if we can actually move this forward. The same thing could be done to this example that we're talking about with this loft space in Sioux Falls. Like you could literally simulate out the city of Sioux Falls and what would happen if the owner if the owner did deploy all 30 of those lofts or whatever to Airbnb instead of long-term tenants and what would happen to the communities. These are very interesting questions. Yeah, now you got me thinking about that stuff. God. Yeah, the universal basic income. The problem with all those type of things is that you rely on the government to, you rely on the government to deploy that money that they have correctly. So why do we think they're gonna do it correctly? You know what I mean? That's my only issue with it. It's cause like they might have the money but are they gonna distribute it the right way, you know? So that's a whole other conversation. But that's politics. That's politics. Yeah, we'll try to just super down in politics. Andrew Yang, baby, UBI. Yeah, he's cool. Yeah. Yeah, he's got some interest. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, but with the Airbnb to wrap it up. Yeah. So that's short and long-term rental. Oh, so the long-term part of it just quickly. Once I start getting apartment complexes instead of hiring out property management companies, I'm gonna do it in-house and create a separate arm, Metastome Property Management, so that I can control the property management because the way you win an apartment is that you have good property managers. So I'm gonna make sure that they're good by creating that company. So that actually, I haven't actually built that yet but that's a big key. That's what the long-term rental is, management is. So when you guys get down to Tempe and Phoenix, you guys are gonna be doing, you're gonna be wholesaling real estate mostly down there, that's the plan. I would say, yep, it's gonna be a lot of wholesaling. Hopefully try to get a couple of houses that we can do Airbnb just to get some, just to get that. Which will be short-term rentals. Short-term rentals. And then really try and find our first apartment deal. Our big goal in 2019 was to get the wholesaling or whatever, but a big goal was to get a 20-unit or a higher asset by the end of 2019. So we've actually gotten closer than we thought but that's enough. So hopefully it's basically those three things. Managing short-term rentals, wholesaling and then trying to find apartments. So that's what the companies do. Cool. Yeah, this has been a really solid update. Let's do some stuff around this. I just, I mentioned this to you and your team just a little bit ago over message. We were all talking about it. It's just the importance of turning what you're doing into a media company. We see it with Grant Cardone and Ryan Sirhaunt and whatnot. Oh for sure. So you guys actually taking and basically creating a vlog of your experience, a library of content around who you guys are, what you're doing, making it really fun and relatable for people to see. Okay, maybe I can do this around the world. Maybe I can get inspired about this. Maybe I can get out of the nine to five and pursue entrepreneurship through these means. Maybe you can actually teach people about how to deal with buyers, sellers and this title company and make it so that in states where it's legal that people can find their own wholesale deals. And you know, it's actually interesting because if this guy didn't have you, the one that was trying to get in 10 days, just get the cash, 22 Grant, he would have been S.O.L. for what he wanted to get done, should out of luck. But you guys were there and so it's interesting that people can get their needs met by having people like you around, which is also interesting. But what you're saying is right, like the only reason we got that deal is because we came across them online. But what you're saying is getting stuff out there because I've always wanted to do that. You can document the fact that you did this deal for this guy, have it on your YouTube page and then you can literally link that 10 minute video to people that are, to the next person that calls you and says, hey, I need this proper, I need to give you my proper 50K cash and you're like, yo, here's our video. Oh, I found you from this video because you're my friend sent it to me or whatever. And here's my big thing on that. And the users that haven't done enough of that and so stupid, you'll kind of understand what I'm saying because I think I've talked to you about it before. I didn't want to do that because I didn't want to be that guy that was like bragging about all this stuff. But then like it hit me, it was like, that's not bragging, you're literally just like showing people what you're doing and literally creating value. You are creating value. Like it's all you're doing. And then I saw a couple of real estate people that do that that they're literally just documenting what they do, not trying to be calculated, literally just showing people. They are just showing what they do. I had so much value from it. So I was like, shit, like what I'm doing, like me dealing all, like if we just show them what we're doing, like someone's gonna get value from that. So once I got over that like just internal battle, like I don't want to, then I was like, dude, it's no brainer. Exactly, yeah. So yeah, I'm pumped to start doing that for sure. Okay, good. And then also another good one is joining the conversations and as like a cocktail party style instead of a presentation party style. So like the way it is, is like on Twitter, if you're looking up the hashtag real estate, that you can do things like just join what people are posting about it and just say, here's a really relevant interview or video or vlog from our site, from our channel about what this thread is currently talking about. More people will hear about you. More people will like and retweet those posts. And so the general idea is that you don't just want to be messaging, tweeting directly from your page and just saying, hey, everyone, look at what we're doing. But you also want to be joining all the conversations happening every single hour about real estate, not only around the world locally as well. So like putting those two things together is going to be really critical, like your own YouTube channel and your own social marketing strategies for cocktail party style. You're joining the party instead of just presenting to people. Yeah, yeah. It all comes down to just being, you got to be in the digital age. You got to be good digitally. Yeah. Yeah, you probably, obviously you've learned a lot doing that. It's interesting too. I love being online. It's fun too, creating like shit like this, awesome. It's gonna be so critical for you guys to do this. I can't, we're gonna have a coach like this in our office. I was telling you, I'm so pumped. Yeah, just throw up the camera and the little mic and just capture it. That's right. Yeah, it's gonna be great. How about your relationship with the divine, with God, source, spirit, all that is, what's been your creation? Yeah, so you told me this was gonna, you kind of prepared for this question, didn't know what. I've been asking this question to almost all of our guests really recently because I think it's super important. It's not enough people talk about this question. Yeah, and I don't really know how, the way you're gonna, but this is kind of just, this is where I think about the divine. So I think that everybody believes it's something of higher power because if you don't, I mean, it's, I don't know, I just feel like your life's gonna be, I mean, that's tough. You got to believe that something's up there. There's a higher power. I don't think there's any doubt that there's a higher power. And I think all the religions are just different interpretations of that higher power. But my interpretation, I'm Christian and that's fine. Like I believe in Christianity, but I don't like to talk about it because I don't know that I'm right. I just know I'm my, that's just what I believe. But at the same time, I never say like, oh God, did this to me. What I say is, the universe, I was a great lesson from the universe because I like to talk in terms of that because some people, a lot of people aren't, they're not religious. But I feel like everybody can relate to a higher power, universe happening for us. So that sets me out. So I'm not a big, I'm a Christian, I believe in it, but I'm not, I don't like to talk about it, say that I'm right, because I just don't think there's, there's not a right religion. And I hate when people try to tell you that their religion is right because, because don't you think it's all interpretation of something, that's what I think. If it's all an interpretation of a higher power, and it's, everyone's gonna have their own unique communion with that higher power. Everyone has their own unique experience. And so it's not about my communion is better than yours. Anyone that starts talking like that, it's not actually. Isn't that tough? It's not actually spiritually developed, or that it's more becomes more about a breaking process or about exerting power over someone else and saying that your process is inferior, your divine communion's inferior to mine. So I'm glad that you say that. And if we can see our lives as a series of unleashing our gifts as a channel, having God or creation or this higher power come through us to help us bring our gifts forth, everything has lessons. We're gaining experience points. You know, this game near these, we were big gamers when we were younger that we're literally gaining experience points and we're gaining accolades and we're leveling up. We're defeating bosses. We literally are, it's literally a game, life's a game, if you think about it the right way. But some people don't think of it as a game. They don't look for those lessons. They don't look for those like where you're saying just comes together, if the universe comes together, if you look for it though. That sounds so hokey, but it really isn't. You have to be a seeker. You have to, you have to like tell what you want and then you'll get hints if you look for them. It's just get to take them. In the morning and at night, instead of just rolling over and grabbing your phone, tap into your body and your divine purpose and really try and like really envision what your successful future looks like and how you're gonna achieve it and you'll see more and more synchronicities going in that direction. Cause you're catalyzing that process with the divine. Versus when you're rolling over and succumbing to algorithms. God, I know it's not just, if you think about, that's why I love always talking to you cause not that many people get this deep about it and it's, I feel weird talking to other people about this stuff, but it's so true. Like, if you think about like that, like the amount of people who don't have this mindset, it's not like a superior, I don't know, it's not a superior mindset. I think it's the mindset you should have, but not that many people have it. It's like they don't think about life. We're not giving the other option that much either as in you have to know that the other option exists. When was the last time that someone mentioned to you, hey, hey, you know that time that you spend in that newsfeed, you can actually spend that time like creatively and hovering. Because there's just like, no, when I'm there and I'm in line or I'm just have my spare time, like it's immediate now that we just go to the newsfeed. So we need to know that the other options exist. Like what would happen if I just asked the person next to me, you know, hey, what's your name? What's your divine purpose in this world? Tell me about who you are. Like what creative lesson could come from that process? I can get better at socializing. I can get better at empathizing. I can learn about someone else's divine power, but I have to be willing to know that there's other things on the tool belt than looking through a fucking newsfeed during that little time that I have. I agree, I completely agree. And just to your point about talking to people and asking them good questions and trying to like actually get them to say something. Do I've done that a lot lately? Like dude, you meet people, you have better conversations, but like you feel like they're happy to talk about it. It's so much nicer when you get them to talk about stuff that they like. That they like. So much better. People love talking about themselves, but there's not enough people that are out there asking questions. And willing to listen. Willing to listen. You gotta have confidence. No one does that. Ask questions to be willing to listen, everyone. I love that. And something from Ed Milet, something like this. If you're talking, the first time that you can tell that somebody's not listening is if like as they're talking, like oh yeah, for sure, yep, yep. It's like they're like giving you a nudge to like be done talking. It's like, which I never thought about like that, but it's like just listen to them. And then even if like after they're done talking, give them two seconds, see if they want to add anything. And then, all right. So little things like that. Exactly. And like. You're pulling a good interview skill. Most people don't know about that one that you gotta give an extra couple seconds when someone finishes talking. Cause they always have a follow up. You know they always have a follow up. Or he comes up. Or he comes up. Cause they were doing the associative web in their brain talking about it. And then they pause and they're looking at you. And then all of a sudden the brain's still figuring. And then they go and then they go with the next thing. When I heard that the first time I tried it the next day and like right away, like it feels weird giving them two seconds, but they almost always say something else. Yeah. It's beautiful. Also non-verbal communication. So just when someone's done talking, just look at them in the eyes and just go like, you don't even need to say words. Just literally looking at them and being like, you can give the look if I feel you or that was dope or that was so interesting by just looking at them. You know the fact that like most people don't know that the reason why eyebrows exist is yes, partly because of for being able to absorb additional sunlight and blocking our eyes so that we can then see better. So our eyebrows contribute to that. But people also strongly believe that even more potentially percent of the reason why we have eyebrows is for nuanced facial expressions. Facial sitting really. So that, yeah, us, yeah. So you can do so many different things. All of the different eyebrow expressions, you know all the different things that you can do like that. Yeah. There's millions of emotional expressions that you can do without using your voice. Yeah, even things like, absolutely. We gotta be appropriate with it obviously, but like, do like things like, like walking up behind somebody like, that's what I'm talking about, I'm on the show, that's what I'm talking about, man. Like just, like people love that stuff. But yeah, like it's so simple, emotional intelligence. I remember right when I like learned about the concept, but that's, it's all it is like, if you, I mean, how terrible is it when somebody is just talking, talking, talking, talking, talking about something they've done. It's like, dude, nice. Like you don't want to be like a dick, but it's like you leave that conversation just really not appreciating or not really wanting to go hang out with him again. That's kind of what I feel. But then like, and then when you do get in like, conversation like with you or somebody else that has like good conversations, cause a lot of people, they don't even know the concept of a good conversation. But the people that do, it's great like my buddy Connor Gribblos, you, I would, I wish we could hang out with him too. Cause he's one of those guys where every time I hang out with him, I know we're going to have a good conversation. Cause I know we're going to listen to each other, talk about good ideas, but not that many people do that. So many people, dude, last night at Pave downtown, it was, that was great. I was just like, dude, I do not care cause I wasn't there. I don't care about what you did downtown at Pave, definitely nothing productive. You don't want to say that cause you sound, you come off, you know, the wrong way. Although you did meet that Brookings guy at one of those, A-right? Yeah. So that's another interesting point in nuance cause I'm always frequently telling people there's nothing really that productive at bars or clubs or all that type of stuff. But then you gotta be open minded. You gotta be somewhat open minded to that type of stuff. Okay, let's talk about where do you think we come from? Do you think that our spirit meets this body for this lesson on the planet? Well, I mean, I think we know how the body's made. But I don't know where the spirit comes from. I don't know where that comes from. Do you think it emerges biologically? Do you think that it potentially comes and takes a seat in the body? The spirit or the soul comes takes a seat in the body and then it transitions, you know, pre-birth and post-death. It just goes back and cyclical. How do you think that process works? I think, so I don't know. I think that it comes into us from the higher power. That's what I think. Yeah, that's what a lot of people think. But I have no idea. I have no reason to think that I'm right. I have no idea. It's an interesting. It is, it is, because it could be, cause what do you think? I don't know what you think. That seems to be the prevailing. What's the other side of it? The other side of it is that we emerge from the ground, from just like the most nihilistic, the most non-theistic, the most atheistic perspective is just that we just, this rock orbited the star and we got lucky that it emerged in this habitable zone and that we evolved from single cell to multi-cell life. The asteroid came, destroyed the dinosaurs to make room for us to evolve. And it's just pure luck. And every single time that a consciousness rises inside of a body, that it's just pure luck that we're here and that it's just pure biological process that consciousness occurs here. And then literally once you die, that's it. Nothing happens. It's just your consciousness died and that's it. There's no spirit. There's no soul. None of that stuff is true. So like once you get pregnant, as well as- They even think there's no higher power. They even think that this is like the most extreme idea is just that it literally, when you ask them about Big Bang, they're just like, we have no idea, but Big Bang just happened and that's just what this is. There's no higher power. But yeah, continue on the pregnancy one. That's the complete opposite side of there is a higher power and we are solar spirit coming through these times. Yeah, so when you get pregnant and then whatever goes to embryo, whatever, goes through. So in those nine months, the consciousness grows just out of that, just biologically. That's okay. Yeah. The consciousness is a property of information processing. And I mean- That's the closest. And some people say that plants also due to literally, if like a bug takes a bite out of a plant, the plant will literally have a stress response. And so that's technically information processing. That the plant is processing that the bug bit them and that they now have to have a defense mechanism to make sure that they don't pass. Yeah, I mean, I can see why people think that because I mean, there's obviously a reason people think that. It looks like they think a dog is quite conscious, but a plant is like, oh, well, how conscious is a plant? Right? But a plant is pretty conscious. They're all conscious. And that's what panpsychists believe is that everything is conscious. I think they're all, I think everything's conscious. Yeah. That's what a lot of people think too. But they're all different consciousness levels, I guess. And then- We're the most conscious, don't you think? See, that's a very interesting, hubristic, self-confident perspective on that. Sounds confident. It is overly self-confident in a sense because technically you look, you do, you look at the, kind of like you look at the inner rhythm of a lot of other animals, especially like aquatic animals or just even like your household pets, like how much, how interesting is it that the way that the intelligence of dolphins or bats or there's all these other snakes, there's things that can like see an infrared or use ultrasound or all these types of things that we don't have. We haven't trained, we haven't evolved for those things. There's like some sleep, I believe it's a dolphin that sleeps. Dolphins, yeah, you can see there. With half their brain. Yeah. So like, unihemispherically sleeps with only one side of their hemisphere sleeping and the other side. I heard dolphins are way smarter than us. So, and same with octopi, you know, all this type of stuff. So one of the questions is like, what have humans actually evolved our perceptional abilities? Cause right now it looks like our perceptional abilities is pretty much to like eat, sleep, reproduce, and then work and usually in working we're building civilization. But how often are we training these faculties of like communing with the divine on like a normal basis? Like how good can you be at communing with the divine to the point where it's basically your second nature to be tapped into a higher power all the time? Every breath of air. Can you give me an example of what do you mean? I don't even know how to do that. Like your body right now, you have like, your heart's beating a hundred thousand times a day. You're like, your autonomic nervous system. So be tap-conscious of like that type of stuff. You mean? Be really conscious of that type of stuff. And like, you know, your autonomic nervous systems was helping you breathe cause you're not consciously going right. And so the idea is like, can you more consciously go, can you more consciously when you drink water or go to the shower? Can you more consciously be grateful for that water that's sustaining you? Okay. Whether it's cleaning you. Is there something with your food that you eat? Can you literally connect to the divine before you eat your food? Interesting. Yeah, I know what you mean now. So those types of things. Yeah, I can see, yeah. Cause that's where human possibility lies. Is our possibility lies in that, but we're so overly consumed with what is just mundane and repetitive. For those who don't, for those who, without too many, too many like scientific words. I think basically what you meant is like, be grateful for the little things. Don't you think? In a more basic way. Sure. Be great. Or at least like, like understanding that water was great for my body. You know? Yeah. The really small stuff. The little small stuff, yeah. But there are also the things that sustain us the most. And that's why people like these indigenous tribes around the planet are all saying that it is our disconnection from nature. The fact that water sustains us, food sustains us, the air sustains us of this planet. Literally this planet sustains us and our disconnection from that process is the reason why we're trashing our planet. And that's why we have so many of the issues in our civilization. So literally if we could heal our connection to the planet, our connection to this, literally this thing that sustains us, that then that wisdom would unlock our harmony with nature, our harmony with each other and solve so many of the problems that we have. There's a lot of problems. No, that's, there's, yeah, there's. There's a lot of beautiful things, but a lot of problems. Let's see what, yeah, you're, I wish, I mean, a lot of California, a lot of people think that way. Not enough people think that way. That's why, you don't get that perspective up here. You just don't, no one talks about it. Yeah, it's, there's even more ways to dive into that. We'll say, how about a, I don't think we asked you this last time, are we in a simulation? I think you did. I think in some ways, I mean, we're in a game. I think we're in a game. I play it like it's a simulation. No, see, this is where I don't think it's a simulation. I don't, I don't know. I think it's a game, someone's controlling it. I mean, shit, Christians, if you're a Christian, you isn't a simulation. If you think about it, wouldn't it be? If you think Jesus and everything, they're controlling everything, aren't they the creators of the simulation? I don't know. I think, I look at, I look at life as a simulation where whoever's running it is giving me options, throwing me off schools, I'm just kicking them down. Seriously dude, like, to me, it's a game. I don't know if it's, I don't know if, I don't know, I don't know if I'm gonna go all the way to like Elon Musk's radical version of the simulation, but I don't know, that's, it's a tough question. And then what do you think's the most beautiful thing in the world? I just think the power to, or, I think the most beautiful thing is that you can always, you can do whatever you want, you can always change your story and there's no limits. And I think too many people put limits on themselves and I just think it's beautiful that if you really think about it, there's no limits. And you can, tomorrow you can change your entire story. So I think. I love that one. You like it? That's really beautiful, yeah. There's no limits. Tomorrow you can change your story. Seriously, like, I'm a kid, do you do a shitty job? Fucking quit, figure it out. So I think too many people are just, especially if you don't have a family and if you don't have kids, then it's even easier. Especially, yeah. And I just hate the too many people playing the victim card. I can't do this. It's like, dude, come on, man. You can really live in that type of mindset your whole entire life. Especially when you're in the death bed and you're like, oh my God. I never learned who I am. I don't know who I am, what did I do? I worked with, like, yeah. And that type of stuff, that type of stuff's real. It's real. Do you think about that? It plagues our society. People don't get to unlock their gifts and bring them to the world. Absolutely. And we need to help children do that as fast as possible. More effectively. Absolutely. What a fucking awesome round two. Great combo. Super fun. Oh yeah. Always a pleasure. Last time I didn't know what we were gonna do. Since I was pumped all day for it. Good, bro. And we got all the equipment too. Yeah, we had the equipment this time. I love it. Thanks everyone for tuning in. We greatly appreciate it. We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on our conversation. Yep, absolutely. Let us know what you're thinking about real estate in general. Let us know what you're thinking about real estate investing. This idea of finding off market properties, real estate wholesaling, managing short and long term rentals, and also apartment syndications. Let us know what you're thinking about those things. Go and have more conversations with your friends, families, coworkers, people online on social media about these topics as well. About everything from also rent seeking and capitalism, all the way to understanding how to create a better social fabric from leashing people's gifts. All these great topics. Check out the links in the bio below to metastomecap.com as well as webuyhomesufalls.com and thetoptiermg.com as well. Find all those links below. And also support the artists, the entrepreneurs, the spiritual leaders, the organizations in your communities that you believe and support them and help them grow. Support simulation, our links are below. You can find our Patreon, cryptocurrency, PayPal links down below as well as our design cool merch. You can pay all that stuff in the links below. Go and build the future everyone. Manifest your dreams into the world. We love you very much. Thank you for tuning in. We'll see you soon. Good night. Peace. Peace.