 area trivia challenge stump the jumps on this 21st day of April 2022 and it's been quite a while since we've matched up COVID-19 set us back or set us all back and I sort of stepped aside for a while and so here we are with the refurbishing of the stump the jump program and my name is Bill Cale I've been around a long long time but these guys have been around a long time not as long as me but this is Al Sharon and this is Roselle Lawrence so Al give us your Burlington pedigree my pedigree your pedigree well I'm a lifelong resident of Burlington I work for the state for about 40 years and I've enjoyed every moment I've had in Burlington and I'm glad that we're going to be talking about Burlington parks close to my heart okay Roselle I've been around Burlington government a long time and I think you're the one who works for so many different departments while doing your service to the city is that true well couple three of them or so the in 1959 I went in as a full-time fireman in Burlington for 10 years and at the at that time 10 years later I partnered up with someone and started Queen City fire equipment selling fire equipment all over the northern half of Vermont including fire stations and then then I sold out my my half and went to the legislature for a couple years until the mayor pocket asked me to come to work for the city which was as assistant city clerk for about two and a half years then he asked me to go down to the assessor's office where after a couple years I was city assessor until 1990 prior to going to work for the city I actually was on two commissions in Burlington they what was called at that time the Street Commission they were all separate and also the Sewage Disposal Commission Wow and was chairman of each of them for a year or two and that's that's a that's when that's when I went I had to leave that to when I went to work for the city but then after I left the city I always for I don't know 15 years or more was a an inspector of election out in Ward 4 so that been around the city doing different things for a number of years Wow okay viewers if you have a question to something jumps and you want to call in call 802-862-3966 you might have a question for us or you might have to share an incident because we're going to talk about the outset talk about the Burlington Parks and Recreation System and I even brought my even brought my hat I had lunch yesterday with Cindy White who was the current director of Parks Recreation Waterfront and anything else that floats so if you have a incident you want to share with us give us a call again we're going to talk about Burlington Recreation Areas our parks our beach our bike path so Rose there what were growing up in Burlington or being in Burlington what's your favorite park and what you would what did you do in that part your favorite thing well in the early to mid 50s or so I grew up in the Old North Inn and almost every night in the winter we were at Roosevelt Park where they had a good-sized warming hut with a pot belly stove and I skated there every night and about nine o'clock after the young kids left they they would put on music and you could actually skate with the girls and back then it was like a rhythm type of skating that you did almost like a dance and that was a lot of fun and then when it was time to close up there was two or three of us that skated pretty well we would help the maintenance guy to use the shovels and clear the ice off of all the snow and stuff so that he could put out the hoses and freeze it and that's kind of what they did down at the south end what was South Park back then started from Flynn Avenue I mean Pine Street all the way up to what you know as Kellahan Park now that upper part was all part of South Park and up in that upper part is where they had a warming hut and ice skating just like Roosevelt during that time years later became a little league and as you know it does today down below was the baseball field where a lot of softball leagues played there was a big big grandstand there that got taken down several years ago but those were the two primary parks in the city outside of North Beach in the summertime for for going out there for swimming so well well I I like South Park I played football baseball down there the high schools played down there I also like Smalley Park because I hit a grand slam home run off from Julie Molanson's house which was down the left field line and so that's always been dear to my heart but no well and the battery park I've always liked because of the sunsets there Rutger Kipling said if you want to enjoy a sunset go to Badbury Park in Burlington and he and he's right and my wife my wife and and I go frequently to see sunsets at Badbury Park to this day to this day well as I said I had lunch with Cindy White and this one of my causes is the open battery park again to the public but that's not very popular but right now there's no way to get to Battery Park you have to park at the closest parking it's parking garage so I go by Overlake Park once in a while in South Burlington and there's more people looking at the lake from Overlake Park in South Burlington as more than Burlington you get only people well your way up yeah yeah so it's now the nice part about Battery Park was when when I when we were in our young age there was a lot of kids that spent a lot of days in the summer there and the cannons were always popular to jump up and sit on the cannons as if you were riding a horse walked a stone wall that was around there it had a lot of activities which now you don't see any activity because nobody can park there and it got spoiled because of few people with young people with cars would park there and there was things that the police didn't appreciate going on with in those cars and the solution was to shut down the park in there and keep people out instead of making good use of something that was a great asset to the city and let me just follow up you mentioned Smalley Park and for the audience that might not know where Smalley Park is it's it's it goes a lot it's on the corner of St. Paul Street going up Adams Street it's not real big but that's where the Burlington High School when Burlington High School was down on Main and South Union Street the baseball team every day would go down there and that's where they did all their practicing some of the softball teams leagues would play there too but that that park had a lot of use but it was very rough if you went if you were doing baseball there or softball and you slid chances are you might be going against some rough stones and something else I remember I remember being a catcher there for softball one night and a guy rounded third and was heading home and he wasn't going to get across so I stood in front holding that ball and man he nailed me like a bulldozer and I went skidding in all that rough terrain so I remember it real well I went also you could hit a home run in the center field couldn't you what was the name of that street that came down Elm Terrace Elm Terrace I saw a guy we were playing a game with the UVM freshman and Jack LeMabe who later pitched for the Pittsburgh Pirates he was on the freshman team and he hit a ball he was playing first base that day for the freshman and he hit a ball up there on Elm Terrace and I forgot you know him hitting that ball up there I never saw anything like that before I mean that's about 400 feet yeah wow you know that's 400 feet. I was playing with the Mud Alley Midgets in Smalley Park remember the Mud Alley Midgets maybe you remember the Mud Alley Midgets. Explain where Mud Alley is. Right Mud Alley is Marble Avenue Hayward Street down sort of the halfway south end but anyway was playing for Lenny Lafayette and I was being a smarty some of you hit me a fly ball and I said oh I'll try to catch it behind my back you know I like this the ball is coming I've been over like that I missed it I didn't bother to go back to the dugout because I knew I wouldn't have a long life the rest of that game but getting back to the ice skating thing that's that's really was a very popular sport and was they did a lot of South Park and when they put the lights on that was a big deal and helps and I was Park Superintendent about that time when a lot of that was going on and as soon as I got that job as Park Superintendent I found out that the employees there was there was a an alderman in Burlington at that time who sold soda and he had glass containers and what he the deal was made with the city that whatever this the soda whatever they sell it was profit to the person who worked there they didn't get paid for it but they get these old soda and candy with the profits going in that well I stopped that big time but that wasn't Champlain beverage was it yes we know who the element is that you're talking about so but also another run in with that person as well because we'll get to North Beach in a while but you don't want glass at North Beach oh my god no and that's the last thing I want your city alderman selling a container that is glass he's not very supportive of banning glass but that was an issue that some of the pressure sometimes that these city officials or state officials have pressures for people with special interests we know that all the time but anyway that was my experience with the glass containers and of course we don't do that anymore but we did it that day I can verify what happens because we were frolicking down at North Beach one time with a ball and somebody threw the ball out and went out over the water some so I run out I kind of did one of these flying things for about six out eight feet out into the water and when I landed on that one foot I caught a piece of glass and on the bottom of my foot and it was at the hospital that they had to clean it out well yeah so that is dangerous how about the new north end new north end has two parks now and one the shifoletti park job shifoletti park and we have a park what's the other one there's a park down by where I live tree point yeah by apple tree point and it's been dedicated to David Krakowski yeah and has basketball court and also play area and it was dedicated to him because he lived close by and he used to go over there on his own and mow the grass at the park oh so it was a great thing you know when they dedicated that to him but you can go down there and and watch these kids play basketball at this park yeah and so that's a great park of course shifoletti park Charlie had been a you know great organizer for Little League yeah I was there when Charlie and Bill Peacock and Bob Rosenberg and some people only had was two dugouts that's how they started that was all work and city didn't give me any money or any support today there's what two three good nice ballpark right really nice ballpark three major ones I the third one that when you were talking about there were two and then when they I was involved as a vice president of the little league at the time when we built the third one and we did all the work ourselves yep all volunteers yeah that made it very successful I'd be umpire in baseball games though you the fans are real close to the players and one of the big issues was your behind the plate calling balls and strikes and the parents would be griping both of me the umpire and they tell the kids oh stand closer to the play get your feet together put put your all that advice that a poor kid playing baseball it was harassment eight nine ten years old yeah so now I think they put the fans out in center field right and well they got a couple of real nice stands out there now they're the new cut aluminum kind that meet the safety standards and everything else yeah okay yeah now about one of our lesser known parts called shaman'ska shaman'ski viewers if you get some input here give us a call 802-862-3966 now Sharon knows a lot about Burlington that does rose their lawns they've been around give us a call 802-862-3966 well shaman'ska park shaman'ska park was named it's uh down by go for curvy sand pit used to be down around chase chase street and that area and Ireland has built some big quite a development in that area almost and so shaman'ska was owned by the land was owned by shaman'ska and then was donated to the city and it's about 123 square acres it connects to centennial centennial field and cemetery up there I don't know if there's a cemetery there is up the hill oh yeah going towards it centennial field anyway these have softball games here so just say if you're playing it shaman'ska park and right field is a steep hill right how you play softball and playing right field when it's on a slope didn't play there very long but softball was a big thing in Burlington we had the continental league and a couple leagues that you were talking about the rose there yeah the continental if I remember right they were the the younger crowd you know probably shortly after after getting out of high school and up to well they could go to any age but most of them were like in their 20s and early 30s and it was serious ball that they played the league I played in a couple years was I think there was a minimum age of either 30 or 35 it wasn't as serious and certainly not as fast but we played at South Park at Letty Park sometimes at Smully but the softball was pretty big back in 60s and 70s quite big and in the 50s when they had fast pitch no slow pitch and fast and you had you had DeShane's and you had McGregor's and yet you know you had a number of different teams and they would go out of state and play and they could be you know fast pitch it was really fast pitch and it really is and people think of it kind of as a public park but Centennial field is really belongs to UVM but a lot of other things going on there and if you want to talk about baseball way back in the 40s you had the Burlington Cardinals which was a professional team that played there and and players from that the were associated with the St. Louis Cardinals so there was a lot of good baseball but remember when we're talking about those times even in the early to mid 50s when I was talking about going out skating every night it wasn't every household that had a TV it was minimal it was minimal because TVs were kind of expensive and you might you were only getting like three channels so you weren't sitting home watching TV every night so you went out and did things watching TV especially on Saturdays you were always out doing something at watching TV through the snow yeah I remember some some of the skates you had a certain three kinds of skates it was hockey skates there was a regular skates racers you had right yeah right what's wrong with the ridges on it and the toes those are figure skaters figure skates yeah I'm you I always use the racer skates yeah oh you're the smarty with the long blades huh yeah Roosevelt Park there was always a big crowd there but there was a two of us that were probably the considered probably the the better skaters and one you remember police chief art Karen sure well he had a set of twin boys and one of them boys was the other guy that skated with races with me and we'd break up after all the young kids were gone we'd break up and make two groups and play what was called dungeon which you you tag somebody and they had to go into this little ice area that we set up and if somebody else could come through there and tag them they'd be free that that was kind of simple entertainment that we had back then there was no hockey played no hockey was played down in Lakeside with the lefty Joel and and you know I'm strong Claude Armstrong and the and you know those guys down there who actually found founded the kids hockey in Burlington but yeah and you're right you raced over at over at Roosevelt Park and when you want to talk about old parks at Lakeside that's one of the old parts yeah yeah when in those days they were talking about the the fire wood and you go on the matter what the temperature was the wind you went out and skated oh yeah and you came in and you warmed up again it was something really hot and you put your take off your shoes and put your shoes underneath the bench and you make sure that after you get through skating that your shoes are still there and of course after everybody left right some kids forget their shoes under what they went home but that was that was a situation but of course they used to flood that whole area you know they get out there with their hoses and that was quite an area there at Roosevelt Park oh yeah it was it was a big ring it was a big ring the same thing in South Park pretty much in Damascus had a rink out a while now do you ever hear of Champlain Street Park yeah well that that came about from some buildings that got torn down back in where'd that come from I don't remember how that the city got a hold of that I'd say it was Champlain a viewer Champlain Street Park is at the end the south end of Champlain Street right near Maple Maple or King I think it's between King and Maple okay yeah but there there was a building there and I might have been as late back as the 70s or probably the early 80s when something got torn down and never got built up and turned the neighborhood kind of turned it in the park and then the city kind of took it over I I won't swear to that but I think it's about what happened when I was at the park department we was put in 60s that that was one of my parks it was one then okay it's not very big it goes back further than I think well they're doing a renovation of it right now oh they are okay good because it's not there's a few kids around there but but not that many but I see what's what's another part with Letty Park you know well let me let me park was named after Bernard Letty who was on the parks he was a longtime member of the Burlington Parks Commission correct and he had lived on Standford Road in the 40s and he would walk in those woods over over to the Burlington rendering plant and he wanted to see a park there at some time and so soon after his death in 1972 the Park Commission named Carranco Park in his honor and the park was finally dedicated July 4th 1976 and that was a bicentennial year and that's what it was dedicated to to Bernard Letty and it turned out to be a great park it was a great area you know that area when Carranco was there you could smell you could smell it on North Avenue and well yeah and then they had all those woods to to mask it you know and to cut it off let me just explain what a rendering plant was Carranco was a company rendering plant was where they process animal caucuses and the other thing they did they had trucks that went around to all the store store to store like the stores would throw all their beef trimmings and bones and stuff because back then it didn't come all prepared you broke it all down and boned it out and put it in barrels and once once or twice a week the big rendering company truck would come by and pick them up so at that plant is where that all got boiled down and what they'd end up making with it was industrial oils and what's the word I want oh I made a note of that but into industrial fats oils as in such and and talon for soap and now and also for fertilizer and you can imagine what kind of smell came out of that but it was all wooded around that area and ironically what my brother-in-law was in the demolition building and he he's the one that tore that whole plant down and everything when it was time for it to go and then it got turned into a Letty Park and the ice rink was built on the other side of the tracks the render plant course was where the parking lot is the other side of Letty Park that was put in during the Gordon Poquette administration right let's go to North Beach we got five minutes ago we tell about North Beach yeah North Beach was when I took over it was awful we had a terrible bathhouse with rickety and sewage going directly into the lake in the swimming area and you know day after July 4th weekend you see feces on the shoreline and all sorts of things on the waterfront and the so when the time came whereby the school department wanted some land to put a high school right near North Beach so we made a deal the Park Department had property where they have administered the property where the athletic fields are so what we did was we made a deal school department you put up a sewage treatment plant and we'll give you turn over the athletic fields in the rest of that area which is park area to the school department so that's how we get the sewage out of the lake but for a while we get the water tested to make to do what we could about keeping it clean which we didn't but I got together with the with the city health officer I said you know doctor this is July 4th weekend temperatures 85 degrees we're not gonna if we test the water we're not gonna win he said well I'll take the test down a little bit more bull the surface for the worse cooler because people are gonna go to that beach anyway I mean when yeah whether they it was polluted yeah and then the other the other thing was just briefly we extended the hit fly ash of the suit for the Moran plant and that was flying over Lake View Terrace but we also some residue and we took trucks from that ash fly ash to extend North Beach so we had a lot going there and I can tell you there was a lot of summer days that I spent down there and for a couple of years I was the reserve lifeguard that would get called in if they were sure to lifeguard so North Beach has a lot of fond memories and up in the camping area wasn't as big as the camping is now but a lot of Canadians came and camped there and they were doing it with the tents and stuff not not the RVs like you see today there was quite a family even brooding some people would go to there because oh yeah it was cheap it was cheap yep it was accessible I mean you know and they've done a great job with North Beach okay well good I think folks I hope you enjoyed our little rip discussion here about the Burlington Park system we never get to the bike path but one of Burlington's some of Burlington's assets are the our park system our North Beach is certainly the bike path and the waterfront we've come a long way since those back in the days so Al Rose there thanks for sharing your experiences folks thanks for looking looking and sharing in what we had to talk about so we'll see you again sometime soon