 Hello and welcome to the Cube Pod episode 35. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, our weekly podcast where we extract a signal from the noise in the industry. Top stories we're tracking, what we're doing, who we're talking to. Getting the top stories and sharing that with you and commentary. See Dave, great to see you. You were in Palo Alto this week for SuperCloud 4 where we had our first SuperCloud event dedicated to generative AI. Great to see you. Rob Stretchy was out the whole team from your studio in Boston was out. Great to see the team. What an unbelievable event. I'm getting feedback on LinkedIn. This is the best event I've ever seen. You guys did an amazing job with the short hits. The breadth of guests was phenomenal. I just went down a rabbit hole for two days. Thank you so much. The content was awesome. Episode 35 here in the pod. So much to talk about SuperCloud event which we're gonna unpack is a ton in there. I mean, that was just the perfect storm of great guests and amazing. Amazon had their earnings. Microsoft posted their earnings. IBM beat, Intel beat, Meta beat, Service Now tops expectations, Juniper beat. Microsoft. Yeah, F5 shares dropped and they beat. Just so much action and you're starting to see the signs from the industry. So let's get in, great to see you Episode 35. Let's get it on. Yeah, I mean to me, Microsoft is just ticking all the boxes. Talk about a $56 to $57 billion quarter. They're saying second half growth, they're guiding of 27% John on a company that's in the mid 50 billions. They were the only company that cited actual sort of revenue and tailwinds from AI. They said they had a 300 basis point tailwind. So 3% added growth to Azure because of AI. And Azure was up 28% in constant currency, which is faster than the previous quarter. I mean, the productivity business is up, double digits. Even their PCs are up, which is a beat. They beat on gross margin. Microsoft's operating margins of 47.6%, which is just insane. The only slightly negative in their earnings was they were being conservative on some of their bookings guidance. I mean, they absolutely. I mean, they're grasping at straws to go look for that. Look at Microsoft, this came clearly out of the Gen AI super cloud event. And this is a encapsulates the story in my opinion. And I said this in our wrap up there, Microsoft and people in market that have data and have presence are going to get a massive bump with AI immediately. And you see what Microsoft did with AI, they won the marketing war with this out of the gate. Obviously they're leading AWS and Amazon by miles. And I call it a marketing war in my earnings results on Amazon yesterday, my post. But they have existing installed base in the enterprise. They have decades of decades of, since their founding of enterprise selling. Okay, they've been a supplier. They got Office 365 now, they got Teams. Their cloud, although not as good as Amazon on the cloud side, if you want to compare classic cloud to classic cloud, Microsoft wins, got a great ecosystem. But Azure is winning by having a great product right now with AI for the enterprise. Okay, combined with the install base, combined with the relationships, AI makes Microsoft better in the enterprise and harder to switch or less inclined to get someone to switch to say AWS. AWS leading cloud was chipping away at the enterprise and they would get in their enterprise chops together and then incomes AI, which actually favors Microsoft because they can integrate it into their products where they have data. Microsoft doesn't, I mean, Amazon does not have that advantage other than where they have product and retail. AWS, because of their ecosystem strategy, has basically doesn't have that captive app market. Google does, Microsoft does, AWS doesn't. They have some call center and some things are developing. So it's going to be very interesting see. So in my earnings analysis for AWS yesterday, my recommendation on my outlook was still positive, but the question will be for reinvent where we're going to do our SuperCloud 5 special event during reinvent is going to be, can AWS parlay their ecosystem into AI scalable deals, scalable partners? Can they make their partners more AI enabled? And can they convert their customers into viable sales deals? That's going to be the outlook. Who's in production is the metric? So, you know, Microsoft's clearly winning. They got a gift. And if you look at the cost, 10 billion, they've at least increased their market cap by 100 billion already. So it's just the lucky strike, the timing, the presence of what they got for Microsoft. It's just, it's just a good win for them. I mean, you got to give them credit. You got to give the credit where credit's due there. And the numbers are good. It's just, it's amazing. And it's a great turnaround story to go back a decade where they were, I don't know if their stock price was a decade ago, but I know 15 years ago it was in the 20s. Stories are remarkable. Absolutely remarkable. And by the way, Amazon had a good quarter. Amazon did 143 billion in revenue. Of course, it's a lot of the retail business, but still it's 11% growth. And it's a constant currency. And AWS was right on my number. I had like almost to the dime, 23.1 billion, 12% growth. But the big thing to me, John, is AWS operating income this quarter was 7 billion. Yeah. That's up from 5.2 billion, by the way, more profit. That's 30% operating margin. So you think about that, that's better than Cisco. It's not quite Oracle, you know, Oracle's in the 40s, but it's an Oracle's a software company pretty much. That's a really astoundingly good number. And then, you know, as you just pointed out, I don't know if you put it in your post tonight, I think you did. It's massive orders in late September, which is going to show up in Q4. So big bookings in September didn't show up in the numbers this quarter. And they threw up $21 billion in free cash. Well, that's Amazon in total. But the big thing is we, so if you think about their 7 billion, AWS is 7 billion in operating margin, that was only 25% of Amazon's operating profit. And so we've seen that number be over 100% in the past. So Amazon's looking good. And I'll save it for my rant, the way the stock reacted after hours last night was perplexing to me. It was bizarre, but it's up to date. Let's talk about that because one of the things I want to get into, you mentioned the profit numbers. So 7 billion profit for AWS versus 5.2 last year, same quarter. And their growth rate was 12%. They're getting killed in the press because people, again, Andy Jassy used to say this all the time when I sat down with him for my one-on-ones every year and he would harp on it. It's hard to get a double digit growth on as the number gets significantly and more meaningful and bigger. So if you have a small number, say you're doing a million dollars in sales and you grow by 40%, oh, that's great. But if you had a hundred million dollars and grow by 40, it's a different animal, right? So scale matters. But what's interesting is if you're Amazon, the numbers to look at is growth rates and the number that they're growing from, okay? And profit. So on my post, what I got a lot of engagement on was the concept of what should Amazon do? Lower prices to get more growth or drive higher prices and keep the prices high and restrict the growth and the increased profit because obviously the market responded, Wall Street responded because I think one of the anchors on CNBC was just, I mean, I don't know if they have basic math skills, but like, they were like, oh my God, the bottom's falling out, they hit a bottom. Okay, they're not getting what's happening in the business and then the stock dropped, you have a chart on this for your breaking analysis and you're gonna do deep dive and then they got back and realized, well, the profit number is huge. So this is classic, do you optimize for the profit or do you optimize for growth? Okay, now that's a good one. Clearly the cut cost cutting was the key factor, increases their profit and they're overexposed from COVID. I think they did the right move. I mean, Amazon, Jassy and Celestia, they've never been motivated by Wall Street, chasing the numbers. So they're playing the long game, but you got to think Dave, in this market with workload optimization, post COVID recession, the Israeli war, you got to hunker down. I mean, every startup's gonna, in trying to increase their runway to get the cash flow positive, Amazon's probably taking this time to take their medicine from the over hiring, but all that is the business. Listen, there's very little upside to doing an aggressive guide. You have to guide to what you can see. Most CEOs will say that. If you have any uncertainty in your guide, you shouldn't guide up in these days. This is no benefit to doing that, but compare this to Alphabet, so Alphabet, again, I thought that a really good quarter. There's 77 billion in revenue. It's like 11% growth. I mean, it's amazing, but its search is like 44 billion of that, but Google Cloud, 8.4 billion, and I have GCP at about 4 billion. So remember, Google doesn't report, or Alphabet doesn't report GCP, it only reports Google Cloud. So it's not all the other software and stuff in there, but they said that Google Cloud had a $266 million operating profit. That's 3% John on my estimates. Okay, lower if the revenue's higher than my estimate, it's even worse compared to AWS is 30%. So Alphabet, they didn't talk about AI, they talk about AI a lot, but they didn't talk about AI and the revenue number. And when you go back, I've been tracking this for a long, long time. If you go back when Amazon and Azure, AWS and Azure were about 4 billion, about the same size as I have Google Cloud at today, those companies were growing at 60 plus percent, okay? And Google Cloud is growing at, let's call it 22, 23%. Google Cloud is probably growing a little bit, Google Cloud platform, GCP, a little bit faster than Google Cloud, let's call it 23%. They should be growing double, maybe even triple that rate. Now they have more headwinds, they were later to market, but they've also got great tech, they've got great AI, so they're not growing fast enough, especially given all the AI momentum that they should have. So that's a concern, but Google's still in great shape, they got $120 billion in the balance sheet. I mean, they got a wood chest to compete and they're spending on CapEx. And I mean, it's a long game there, right? So here's my angle on AWS earnings. And I think this is very positive for the industry to see these kind of earnings because I think it's going to be a recovery, at least the big guys, the big guys are going to get bigger and the small companies are going to get larger. I think if you're stuck in the middle, you're going to get hammered here with AI. So in case you can't fight the big guys and the little guys are punching up with their AI skills, because AI makes the smaller companies better. So the mid-range comes going to be stuck, I think, in the middle. We'll get to that in a second, but here's Amazon's focus. Their key results were clearly cost-cutting on the side versus the revenue side. That was clear, the numbers are up and the revenue side, the comment about the deals being the effective date in October that Jassy mentioned that caused the stock to pop. That's essentially what they're doing is they're putting deals in the next quarter to sort of hit their number. When you start to see stuff like that, you know the revenue side is not as the focus. They're going to put it on the next quarter. I guarantee you a Q4, they probably blow it away. Gen AI is the focus. Everywhere you go at Amazon, every story, they're infusing the Gen AI narrative because they were a late entry into the generative AI marketing war. I'm calling it a marketing war because Amazon had some AI and some Gen AI in the works. They just kind of didn't think it was going to happen so fast, which at GPT, Microsoft with open AI gets the commanding lead and the way they marketed that gave them the leadership in my opinion. So that's the marketing war. But Amazon has lost ground to Azure in the thought leadership and on the enterprise side, Microsoft's gotten more stronger there. The customers are more confident with Microsoft. You go back two years ago, no one was doing Azure. I mean, really? And he's like, okay, it's Amazon owned the game. And they would catch it up on the enterprise sales, enterprise mojo, motion, working backwards from the customer. AI just puts Microsoft back on the driver seat there. It makes it harder for Amazon to take territory. We're expecting Amazon to continue in the laying the groundwork for the long game for the next Gen Cloud. So, you know, next re-invent when we do SuperCloud 5 show, which is three days of wall-to-wall live streaming coverage during re-invent, we're gonna unpack what Amazon's doing. They have to invest in the tools, Dave, the picks and the shovels. Remember the early days of the web? You know, they have to bring better tooling. Cisco. You have to build a website by hand, HTML. Now there's all kinds of creative tools. So they gotta do that. And then their enterprise, their, I mean, their ecosystem is awesome. Amazon's ecosystem is second to none. Can they convert the ecosystem, okay, into a better AI-driven solutions where production workloads are going to AWS? That'll be the KPI for earnings calls on the AI adoption. I think the bellwether will be, not how much CPU or GPUs, how many workloads are in production that have AI solutions, whether it's an AI wrapper or whatever, and then, you know, can they convert into deals with their customers? Okay, that's gonna be the key. Can they build strategic partnerships with their partner network with AI, and can they increase their client engagements? Yeah, so cloud optimization, by the way, is still a thing. Okay, so cloud optimization is still happening. All three cloud companies talked about it. But as I wrote earlier this year, that's a feature, not a bug, why? Because it drives long-term customer value because of the loyalty. It increases net revenue retention because it lowers churn. And so that all favors their, it lowers customer acquisition costs. Why? Because because you can optimize, there's less risk. And because you have lower churn, you don't have to go win the customer back. And so cloud growth is kind of playing out exactly pretty much as we expected. We didn't expect a huge hit from Gen AI until, at least meaningful until Q4. I think you're going to see that in Q4. So the numbers have been right on with the exception of the Azure restatement because of the poorly redacted documents from Activision. And, you know, Google is a little bit disappointing but Microsoft has made up for that. And then, but cloud growth continues to dramatically outpace overall IT spending rates. We're talking about 19% growth for the big four, Amazon, Azure, GCP and Alibaba. That's just IS. It's a $170 billion market growing at 19%. That's pretty impressive. And so you add all that up. And the other point you're making about the ecosystem is everybody's going to be bringing AI to their software, all the ISVs, all the partners, all the security companies, they're all going to be bringing AI to their data. And that's going to drive compute and storage for Amazon. And it's either going to happen directly with things like Redshift or it's going to happen indirectly when you buy from Snowflake and you still buy compute and storage from Amazon. So it's almost like they can't lose. It's Apple like in that sense, obviously enterprise, not consumer. I think that's a great point about that ecosystem, Dave, because Amazon has a tough choice, okay? And there, Andy Jassy loves Clay Christensen because he was a teacher when he was at Harvard. He always talks about him and he's awesome too. But his innovators dilemma was always the big thing. Amazon's kind of an innovators dilemma here. Do they optimize for continuing the partnerships with the ecosystem at the top of the stack and make everybody on that side of the equation AI enabled? AI happy AI, AI with AI for their, and make them better companies, by the way, from doing that. Or do they try to compete with Microsoft and start going after prefabricated solutions like suites and office? No, they just signed a deal with Microsoft to be an Office 365 customer. So that's kind of a big ironic that Amazon's email is going to be going through Microsoft's Office 365. But that says it all, right? What did Uber have? That special thing Uber had was a called Grayball where they can track people. What does Microsoft have? If you're Amazon, you gotta be wondering, who's reading Andy Jassy's email and Adam Sulevsky, but there's Satya Nutella speaking in there with the little Grayball technique, like gunman, backdoor, be like, oh boy. Anyway, so do they do that? It can't be happening, it can't be happening. I'm sorry, just jumped into my head. I never should have said that. That would never happen. No way, in fact, we should say that. Microsoft made the decision, I think years ago, not to be using AI to scrape emails and do the look-aheads and all that stuff. I mean, because of privacy. I think it's played out for them. Yeah, I mean, the trust is huge. Anyway, let's table that from- Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not saying they're doing that. It's just jumped in my head. I just don't know why I thought about it. Maybe it just shows who I am. I'm evil. Curious, why aren't you meeting Tenelle? Because if they choose to go to the apps and make their apps better for Amazon, web services, like what Microsoft's doing, it kind of takes them out of their lane, Dave, right? And we were talking to Dave Donatelli this week, who's now the CEO of Riverbed, who's back in the game. Companies normally do what they're really, they should stay with their knitting, right? And good companies do that and then take territory in areas where they can grow. I think if Amazon tries to change the game midstream and this cloud war and try to get medieval on this and try to do something different, that could throw them back. So the question is, is it better to make everyone who's on your cloud better or try to get these apps? So I personally, I would stay with the ecosystem play and make everyone in that ecosystem faster, smarter and more profitable. And then make that the lever and the strategic competitive advantage. And then Microsoft would get their pound of flesh and market share just on momentum and their inertia and the gravity of what they have with their assets and their enterprise sales team, their office suite and their suite of software working together. And it just creates apples and oranges. So I think that's the way I would hand see that playing out. Yeah, I mean, you and I talked about this at SuperCloud 4. I don't think Amazon would be smart of them, at least today to try to take on Microsoft the way Google has with Workspace. I mean, look, I mean, it's worked out for Google, I guess. It's certainly probably half their business. But to think about it, I mean, Amazon's pretty crappy at building, I mean, look at Chime. Chime kind of sucks. That's an example. Whereas what they're pretty really good at. I actually like Chime. Oh, I hate it. Okay, I kind of have this some feet. Well, I like Chime's worse than Teams and I hate Teams. Okay, well, let me just caveat by saying this. In using Chime, they have a callback feature. Like they can call you when the meeting's happening, which I think is cool. Again, maybe I shouldn't rattle on that, but it is Friday. It is a nice feature. And I thought others had that. But anyway, but my point is their best bet is to reinvent industries or reinvent things like what they've done in contact center or what they're doing in telecommunications. So they're actually really good at thinking differently. Again, Apple for the enterprise and looking at, okay, this industry is messed up. How can we make it better, you know, working backwards from the customer and then coming up with technology solutions and cloud services that can dramatically disrupt industry? That's their best bet, in my opinion. Developing up the stack software, I just don't think that's their core competency. They just haven't shown that they can do that. And I'm not sure why they would want to. Why would you want to take on Microsoft in collaboration? I mean, really, really hard to do. You're gonna go compete against, you know, Microsoft, Cisco and WebEx and not, you know, that's where Chime is competing. I don't know, does the world need better productivity apps? I mean, Microsoft's doing really well. People are happy. It's not broken. Do you like Microsoft over say Google Docs and spreadsheets? So I think Microsoft is better at Google Docs and spreadsheets. The reason why we were on, when you and I met, the reason why we were on Google Docs is because I got so frustrated with the scourge of PSTs. I had to archive my emails because we were on exchange and it was just a freaking nightmare. It was horrible. And that's why... Well, that's true. That's not sweet. I'm talking about Google's word PowerPoint and Excel versus Sheets. Okay, oh. Yeah, but so that's why we got off of Microsoft at the time and we went to Apple because it was just, we couldn't deal with it. We said, I forget it. We're going to the cloud. But there's no question that Excel is better than Sheets. Sheets sucks. It can't even add. There's so many bugs in it and it's just horrible. You know, Google slides, I mean, is lame compared to PowerPoint. PowerPoint is so much better. And, you know, word, I mean, I like Google Docs because it's easy, but the word is fine. I don't know if I like word anymore. I mean, Google Docs is 10 times better than word, in my opinion. I would agree with you there because you just don't need that complex stuff. And Sheets are good and Sheets are good enough. I think Google gets easier but that buggy you're talking about really bothers me too. It's horrible. You paint a row to add something up and you're like, it's 1.9 billion. That's not right. It's like 20 billion. And then you get out your calculator, you add it up. Like, it's like, you know, 20.3 billion. And you're, what am I doing wrong? It's just they, I mean, Google, a bunch of mathematicians fix that shit. I want to get a reaction to you from SuperCloud for since I got you here. It's just fun because you had a good quote. This was written down. This is in one of the articles that the journalist wrote about watching us. This is your quote. You said this on the queue. It's way too early to count out the likes of Amazon and Google from the AI race, despite some people calling it a ready. And that's, you know, some, some substack called the tech buzz. Amazon's well-positioned, Volante, you said. They've got to execute. They got to deliver. And they've got to show, and they've got to show at reinvent that people actually are using this stuff. Then I think they'll do great. And Google has among the best AI and people working on it. So the main question will be whether it's cloud presence is strong enough to funnel as many AI initiatives to customers in the way that they need it. I said that. That's pretty cogent. Explain, it was edited. It was obviously edited. It was edited, yeah. Edited for clarity. I'm only, no, I'm only kidding. I don't know if it was or not. Probably right. It came out of the AI tool actually. So our AI tool, what do you mean by that? Cause you got a couple of things going on there. Amazon and Google and the AI race, clearly there, right? Google, we saw at Google Next, clearly unbelievably strong in AI. And I expect it just to get better. They're focused, they're sharp. They're explaining things simply. It's not as fragmented as Amazon, which was one of my comments on the earnings was, they got to clean up there. And I think they will. They're positioning, they're messaging. It's all over the place. They have to sharpen that up. And I think they will. You know me, I love to take bath and spending data. And a couple of things that I'll share with you. So obviously you point to chat GPT as the seminal moment and you saw what happened to open AI and Microsoft and their momentum after chat GPT. You also saw that with the entire AI and ML sector jumped up, it had bottomed, you know, before chat GPT, October 22 at bottomed after being really at the height of the pandemic, it was high, then it came down. After chat GPT, it's shot back up, it's stole from other areas. So that's point number one. Point number two is we saw, so after that announcement, the momentum of Microsoft, but after Google Next, we saw Google momentum pick up. The other thing I wrote about, we'll write about tomorrow, but talked about in my breaking analysis today, IBM Watson X, which was announced in May, it bottomed in April. And we're seeing in the spending data, IBM Watson X actually has some momentum. And so I truly believe that Amazon is going to be, Amazon announced RedRock GA this month, they're gonna be in a position to tell a strong story at re-invent. And they're gonna get a bounce post-re-invent. I guarantee December into January, people are gonna be adding on to their AI services. And so the big question I have is, and we talked about this at SuperCloud 4, this is the first time ever, Amazon has not been on the lead. They're spotting points to the opposition, first time ever. Yeah, it's first time they've never been in first place. Right, it's like, you know. They've been the underdog before, but that's because they were already number one in cloud, but cloud was not yet anointed as the next big thing. This is back, go back to 2008, 2009, 2010, when we started covering AWS, 2013, 10 years ago, when we started covering re-invent, they were- I never saw them as underdog. I never saw them as underdog. You know why? In the industry, they were not underdogs in the cloud. But I gotta tell you why, I gotta tell you why. So I'm at an EMC meeting with Joe Tucci. You remember? Yeah, of course. Tucci was the legend. So, you know, I'm asking all these questions about cloud and he's rolling his eyes. He goes, all you freaking analysts want to do is talk about cloud. By the end of the year, we're gonna have a cloud strategy. Okay, you know what they did? They went out and bought Mosey. Yeah, which- And they got it at Microsoft, I think. And I was like, I don't know where it ended up, but I'm like, okay. We interviewed the Swedish founder, remember her? That's their idea of cloud. Okay, this is gonna be huge. And you know, about Amazon Gorilla Post, we covered re-invent. I mean, we're all over that. And as analysts, I think we correctly predicted the transformation that was coming. But I know what you're saying, that they were an underdog because you had this huge percentage of spending and install base on-prem. But it just, you know, I never thought, I never saw them as an underdog. It was another innovator's dilemma at the earlier point. All right, so here's a more soundbite reaction. So I actually said this, walled gardens are the new goodness, at least when it comes to walls around company's data. So specialized models are going to be likely in the long tail of generative AI models in the power law that we showed. Folks aren't going to power law, as we've published a power law of AI models, how we see the AI models emerging and the evolution. It's not a map, it's a model, it's a power law. Now you said, then your comment to that was, most of the spending is going into the long, most of the spending is going to be in the long tail, especially at the network edge and the on-premise data centers. You're going to be bringing AI everywhere because data is increasingly everywhere and makes it more economic sense to move the computing to the data than the other way around. Okay, explain that. I mean, I kind of know what you mean, but I want to clarify that because the cube power law is when the vertical axis is size of model and we know who has the big models, big LLMs, on the horizontal axis is model specificity. And you can, we know you can do a lot with small models and the long tail is, that's where all the action is going to be, there's going to be much more long tail, but I- You can almost say that Y axis could be consumption because technically the smaller size is smaller scale. That's a really good point. But I want to add, because the power law, and I want to make some amendments to this just to make it more clear, a lot of those smaller models are going to be running in the cloud. We don't mean to imply that it's, if it's running on-prem, it's not going to run cloud, that only on-prem can run the small models. No, there's going to be a big, big giant models running in the cloud. There's going to be big models running on-prem. There already are, but the long tail is going to be smaller models, so size of models. And a lot of that's going to happen in the cloud as well. There's no question about that. So I did want to clarify that, but- But the spending, and the cost, because what's going to happen, I think what you're saying is why I wanted to bring it up, why I brought up the concept of walled guards, which is a terrible concept in the old model, but now we have with AI, we think walled gardens of data actually is going to be the model. Google calls their stuff model garden model. They model gardens, I think they call it, yeah, model gardens. So walled gardens means protecting. So what do people want to do with their data? We see it in security all the time. They want to protect it. We're already hearing startup companies at Silicon Valley already forming to protect LLMs. Okay, you're going to start to see a firewall concept emerge. You're going to see all kinds of new stuff come out of the woodwork. So you have AI wrapping going on, which is great today. That's like building a website. When the web came out, it's simple to do. You get the taste of the action. It's almost like, you get addicted to it. Like AI is like, once you have it, you don't want to give it up. And it's so powerful. And then you say, what net new things could I do? This is where I think the commentary kicked into high gear this week was, there was a realization from the senior players in the industry across every panel we did that once you cross over basic AI, wrapping it using chatbots, using co-pilots, you're going to get to net new things that you never thought it could be possible from data. That's going to be killer. And everyone was talking about it at SuperCloud and everyone keeps going back to. And so walled gardens is not a bad thing. Proprietary is not a bad word when you're talking about data because that means an advantage. So it's weird date, proprietary, walled garden. We hate these words. These are words that trigger us in the old days. No one likes a walled garden. Now we embrace them, you're right. We want the open web. We want open standards. We want open source software. We love those things. However, those things are still existing but the data under the covers is going to be proprietary. Like, I mean, let's take NVIDIA. Do you think NVIDIA is open or closed? Do you think they're proprietary? Do we care? Do you care? No, it fucking works. Yeah, I mean. So that's my point. That's my point. Look, de facto standards have always dominated the computer industry, always. Right? So you can have proprietary coexisting as long as it's under the closed hard top. Like, it's not, if you don't care if it's proprietary, if it works. So I think that's going to be very interesting because with open source booming, if you get some of these new proprietary elements into the system, you're going to have a great. So that's why I think companies in the long tail, the specialty models, will come from companies. But companies themselves will bring their data to the party and they're going to have to protect it. They're going to need to integrate it. They're going to need, it's going to be alchemy with say, multiple models. So I think there's going to be an AI system emerging. You know, I'm watching, I'm going to watch this and squint through this at re-invent. I'm going to ask this question to all the guests in person and part of our SuperCloud 5 special re-invent edition coming up in December. We're going to stream that all during the re-invent. So if you want to keep in the conversation and you're listening, tune in to theCUBE. We're going to be at re-invent and we're going to run a studio performance where we're SuperCloud 5 will be. We'll nail that, but we're going to be on site. We're going to have guests in the studio, more panels. Dave, the question is, what net new can you do that you couldn't do before? That's the question. Well, I think the first order of business, I've been saying this, is you got to show, enterprises got to show every enterprise, every, most enterprises are experimenting with AI. Some are in production, but they're going to have to show labor cost reductions. That's going to be the easiest path to ROI. That's going to basically print money. You're going to drop money to the bottom line. And then whoever's running those projects, CTO, Architect, CIO, whoever, CDOs, Chief AI, Architect, or officer are going to be able to go to the CFO and the CEO and say, look what I did, give me more. And they're going to have a gain sharing and it's going to be a productivity boost. And in parallel, they're going to find new business models, new data models, data marketplaces. And that's going to take my view a little bit longer because they have to figure out the distribution channels. They might, you know, some companies are going to catch lightning in a bottle, like open AI, but those monetization models are going to take longer in terms of industries transforming. So people are going to focus initially on dropping, you know, to the bottom line, productivity improvements, reducing labor costs, reducing the need for hires, essentially eliminating jobs, I'm sorry, through AI. That's going to be the fastest path to monetization in the near term. And in longer term, some of the really more interesting things are going to happen. And, you know, the thing is, there's so much uncertainty right now. That's why people didn't know what to do with Amazon's earnings when Amazon's stuck after hours because it's like the new stuff is still not big enough to offset, you know, the old. And so people are confused. Well, Azure's growing faster than Amazon. Ergo, we should sell by, sorry, Microsoft's growing faster than Amazon. So we should buy Microsoft and sell Amazon. No, AI is going to lift all boats and different animals. You're right on the money on that. I think that is absolutely right on. And here's the thing with Silicon Valley right now, which I love, you know, I live here. So it's kind of like a cool place. But there's a lot of focus on the thing, the retrieval, this, that and the other thing versus the end to end. This came up multiple times. I forget who brought it up first from Amazon. It's about end to end. But they got to look at it as a system. So it's not just the model. It's got to be the end to end. And that's going to be what Silicon Valley needs to focus on. Not the tech, not the one thing, because AI is going to be about scale and models. Now, there's two more things that I want to cover SuperCloud with you because on that point, Brad and Saha, the vice president and general manager of AI and machine learning at AWS was the keynote of SuperCloud 4. He was awesome. He said, quote this, the reality is like that the enterprises will use multiple models for different purposes. One model is not going to cut it, okay? He runs an overseas bedrock, which is a service that allows people to access all the AI models. AI, Ari Ghoshan, who's the founder of AI21, who is one of the big models up there in the power law, he said this, there will be a need for a sophisticated orchestration layer to coordinate them all. I think we'll see some really cool developments in the next coming months. Dave, he uses the word orchestration. So you got multiple models, multiple purposes, orchestration layer. Okay, now back to the power law. What cool development is gonna come in the next few months? So I'm expecting something to come out at reinvent. That's gonna be a little bit outside the box. It's gotta be something. And when you talk about orchestration, you talk about integrating stuff, right? Legos, talking about services. You talk about maybe blending a model with another model or doing something, you gotta orchestrate data. I think it's gonna come from the edge. And again, I use that term very broadly. It's gonna come from embedded applications that are using low cost, low power silicon. The performance per watt of these things is gonna be critical. And I think just as Steve Jobs did with the iPhone, what Elon's doing with the software-defined car, you were gonna see software and hardware come together in the real world with robotics, with drones, with delivery systems, logistic systems, vehicles. And that's gonna drive new economics into the enterprise. And people aren't gonna see it coming. They're gonna be like, oh yeah, that's a niche or that's something that's unique for industry 4.0 or manufacturing or whatever weird use cases. But then over time, there's gonna be expertise built up. There already is. It's being built upon- And data, and data. And of course data, and it's being built upon ARM. And that's the point you're making is so critical because data can traverse industries, it can traverse use cases. It's basically, it doesn't follow the laws of scarcity, as somebody once said. And the startups that are gonna do this, it's gonna interesting power dynamic. And I was reading Sam Lesson's stuff, which is awesome. He's got a great take on some of the startups. He's got some good data out there. Is he married to Jessica Lesson? Yeah, they're a team over there, de-information. There must be a really smart power couple, aren't they? They're a power couple. Yeah, they've got a family growing and it's fun to follow them on Facebook. Both are smart. She's got the pulse, she runs information. But he also, you know, is in that Zuckerberg Facebook crowd. So he's a platform guy and he's smart. He runs a VC firm now. But he's like, the successful startups won't look like they were. So AI brings up a growth strategy because you just put up something that's happening. The successful startups have a sneak attack. They sneak up on the big guys. They don't even know they're coming. They're hiding in the shadows like a stealth bomber, right? They just come out of nowhere. So that's contrast to the Silicon Valley. Look how much funding I got. Go PR, get the word out, hire everybody, stock options. Actually, the way to win is you go stealth like a submarine, sneak, you know, silent running, you know, that kind of thing. Or you just kind of keep it down low, use the data until you hit that flywheel, then you pop up and take territory or take over. Because I think that's gonna be the playbook. Because otherwise, because the big guy's gonna be fortified with AI, they have all the data and the people who can get that expertise, get that data is gonna take time. I was talking to an entrepreneur this morning, actually, about this. They're like, I literally know what you guys are doing at theCUBE and how you got the data going on. And I'm like, I have a vision. I worked for the FCC. I've done all these things in legal and policy. And I'm like, I wanna do it. And you know what he said? I can't get the data. I go, well, actually someone might not value the data. So maybe you can get access to it. So I think that's gonna be a key thing. And then understanding how reliable your data is and how to feed it into the models will be key. That came up big time at SuperCloud. So that questions Dave, the whole observability market. How do you know what success looks like when you feed data into the models, when you have synthetic data coming out? Because remember, generative AI generates stuff. So you gotta check the content, check the data to see what was generated. That was good. Well, yeah, the whole, that came out of SuperCloud 4.2. The folks from Vast, Andy, was talking about model collapse because the more synthetic data you have, the higher the models will weight highly probable events. And they underestimate improbable events. And as we all know, it's the improbable events that actually change the world. And so- When I hear synthetic, I think about the big short. Synthetic, what was that instrument that they used to place the bonds? The mortgage-backed security. Yeah, the stinky security. This one is piled onto that one and piled onto that one. It's a piece of pile of garbage. You talk about disruption and play Christensen. You know, the cloud disruption to me was pretty straightforward. It's like, you know, on-prem is slow and expensive and it kind of, you know, sucks. We're going to do all in the cloud swipe or credit card go. Okay. And then cloud obviously brought more complexity, but that was pretty straightforward. And what happened is the whole SaaS business emerged on that. And they said, oh wow, we can convert email. We can convert a ERP. We can convert HR. We can convert IT service measurement. We can cloudify everything. Boom. So they just basically took that model and brought the SaaS into play. The internet was different. You remember the internet everybody went crazy about Netscape, you know, and then that blew up. But what really changed with the internet was the industry transformation. And that's what I see happening here. And that's why to me, the edge is so interesting because then to your point about data because something's going to happen in my view to completely change the economics, you know, at the edge and that is going to, and again, using that term broadly. And then all of a sudden the economics of computing, the price performance of computing, it all comes back to silicon, my view, is going to, somebody's going to go and already doing it by the way. You just, it's not, you know, mainstream yet. It's going to say, wow, we can do the same stuff for way less. Now let's just go attack. It's microprocessor based revolution. You're going to, you definitely saw it with the internet. You saw it to a smaller extent with blockchain that really hasn't taken off. But I think you're going to see it with ARM based silicon. And then one other thing, if I may, I said AI is a tide that's going to lift all boats. Two boats that are going to be interesting to see whether it lists IBM, IBM had really good earnings. They haven't had seen the AI impact yet, but they are going to, in my opinion, because of their consulting business, just as they are able to rig the game with Red Hat and bundle OpenShift into their consulting and their services, they're going to do the same thing with AI. So they have a winning strategy there. The other, the question is Intel. You know, Intel's talking a good AI game, but you know, a lot of analysts are really excited about Intel. I think AI is an opportunity for a company like IBM. Think about it. Yes. They had a lot of work and they go to market with Watson, which was failed. Now they can get back in the game because it's now democratized for them too. So they have a lot of data. They have a lot of access to customers. So, you know, they should be looking at the power law that we have and going after that and just sprinkling that power law with all kinds of models. Watson X is legit. It's got query types. I haven't checked it out yet. So I can hold them in a reserve judgment. I'm skeptical, to be honest with you. I think it's legit, John. I really do. I mean, I look at it. It's just like really straightforward. It's good. It looks like it's good software. I mean, and... We'll meet once. Shame on you. Yeah, but Watson was bullshit. I mean, they were trying to... They were trying to save the world and do all this healthcare stuff and they had great ads. That was the best part of Watson was the ads. And they way oversold it. I'm just saying, I like IBM. Don't get me wrong, but I'm gonna reserve my just to be able to look at it. No, I'm just saying. My opinion from what I've seen of just sort of talking to people, looking at the spending data, looking at the descriptions of Watson X and what it can do. And it's now shipping. Well, you had access to the executives and then you got access to the talent over there to observe. I have not yet been in IBM. Okay, so we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. So we'll see. Well, next time we get together with them, we'll take a look at it. I mean, I'll look at it. And I'll be down there in November, but the other one is Intel. So Intel, $14 billion quarter, they beat by a mile. Their EPS, they beat 41 cents versus 31 cents. I think it was. Stock was up 9% today on that beat. And the analysts are coming on. They're like, wow, Intel, they're turning the corner with their acceleration. Okay. Everybody thinks I hate Intel. I don't hate Intel. I want Intel to win, but they're not winning in my opinion. Revenue's down 8% for the seventh quarter in a row. Revenue's down. The client business is down 3%. Data center was down 10%. The network edge was down, which is like a billion and a half dollar business. That was down 32%. There were two businesses that went up. Mobileye was up 18% and Foundry was up 300%. Wow. The problem is it's two growing businesses combined only account for 6% of Intel's revenue. So the big thing is they're on track to save $3 billion this year. So I'm not sold on Intel yet. I think they've got a such a long way to go. And they're talking about catching up to TSM by 2025. I just don't see it, but I hope I'm wrong. Well, I mean, Intel's got so much work to do. And we'll see. Speaking of Intel, Arun Sabramani and the vice president of cloud and AI was on super cloud. And one of the fun aspects of that event was, and you caught it before me, I wasn't as fast on the uptake on this one, but I loved his sentient thought exercise. So he put a thought exercise out there, I'll share and we'll talk about it because it was funny. Is artificial, he brought this up. He said this, is artificial generalized intelligence, which is the controversial notion of AI, which eventually becomes sentient? Is it already here? Okay, is the AI sentient, is it already here? AGI, right? The machines, smarter than we are. Yeah, AGI, yeah, exactly. And he says, he says, it's hard to know. He said, okay, think about this thought experiment in which he's supposed that- This was in a mind death. I mean, this was really blew me away. So he says, let's have a thought experiment. We'll do that here. Suppose if AGI were already here, wouldn't it know that we humans would be freaked out by that? So therefore would hide the fact that in, so in turn, it wouldn't know we were actually here. It wouldn't know that it's actually here. Basically saying that the AI would make mistakes, hallucinate, appear dumb, so that we would be lulled, humans would be lulled into a sense of relaxation before they took us over. It's like clickbait, Dave, just wanna make us use it and then lulls us into using it. So it's a good thought experiment. The whole point was, AGI is way out there. I mean, it's not leaving close. I mean, this came up. You share about that, John? Oh yeah, absolutely. We could be in the matrix right now, not even know it. Which pill did you take, Dave, bread or blue? All right, well, that's super cloud. Just in summary, that was just a great event. Are you using the QBAI to get all these cool quotes? Yeah, actually. That's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. QBAI is awesome. Folks listening, we have an AI system for our cube where all the transcripts get transcribed into intelligent vectorized database that essentially finds all the hot quotes and all the knowledge. So we don't have to manually clip and edit and it creates native video, MP4s, creates content and we're growing our own content. So we have seeds of content from our AI small model and we grow all the quotes. Kind of like- QBAI.com, the QBAI.com, go sign up. If you have good, it's a classic thing like a garden, if you have good seeds, linguistic seeds, you can grow stuff because you have the word combination. So that's the beautiful thing about the cube. We have a lot of jargon. I mean, our AI knows what soft-s-bomb is, soft or bill of materials. It knows a lot about the jargon. It knows things like data-bounded AI models. So that's a word that Rob Stretcher used. He said them on the quotes. Smaller, more data-bounded AI models have an advantage. Actually, I said that. He said the bigger the model, the more bad data and the more hallucinations are taken. That's what Rob Stretcher said, our cube analyst. I actually said data-bounded AI models, but like who says that? Who talks like that? We do. So AI picks up on it. Again, this is where I think the small models, that's why Bratt and Saha at Amazon was all over this saying, hey, you know what? If you have a small language model or what are you gonna call it and you wanna have proprietary information or data that's an asset or like an intellectual property that's growing stuff, you wanna integrate that and protect it into the bigger models. Why not? But you use it as prompts, not necessarily just ingestion. So I think we're gonna see a lot of movement and experimentation, but still, what goes into production is gonna be sometime. In my opinion. So I mean, I just love the SuperCloud. Check out supercloud.world, a lot of great two days of content in there. Again, get some great reviews. We had great guests from founders to top executives, leaders, technical leaders, business leaders on the cube. Shout out to the external panel, the community panel put on by Howie Xu. It was amazing. He had AI experts from Salesforce, Google, and Microsoft. John and I gave up the mic, which we hate to do, but Howie's a friend and he just, Howie was, he did, I love that fact that he did his homework beforehand. He conducted two polls beforehand and he brought those, that data into the discussion. He got deep, it was, that was a real highlight. That was like the cherry on top of SuperCloud 4 and then you mentioned Dave Donatelli before and Observability, it was interesting to hear from Dave. Gosh, John, does he have like an encyclopedia of history in the business and the whole, the entire stack up and down? It was great having Donatelli in our offices. I actually saw him last week at Randy Seidel's house and then two weeks in a row. So it was good to see him back in the game again, sort of stoked about that. And SuperCloud 4 was tremendous. You know, it was interesting when he came to the office we were talking and he was talking about some of his journey as an executive and even as an engineer at EMC. He's a product guy, he loves products. And what I've always liked about Dave Donatelli is, is that he can see through the bullshit and see that it gets to the nuggets and the product side, he's got product mind. And that's hard to get a CEO that has that kind of leadership skills and their current and always current on product. Okay, so he's now the CEO of Riverbed and someone's gonna make some money over there if he's in charge, so. Well, the thing is too, I mean, he shared a lot of sort of inside baseball off the record, but the reason why I bring that up is because he did it in a way to connect the dots to what's happening today. And so what I've known Dave since 1987, I mean, believe it or not. And he's, he is a product guy and he's a no BS type of individual and he knows how to get stuff done. And he also knows how to take what maybe looks like, I don't know why that's so interesting and then turning it to something interesting. And he also knows how to take something that's garbage and throw it out and bring in something that's better. So he's got a lot of expertise at that. So it's gonna say great, it was great to see him again. Well, just some breaking news I just thought we'd get into. I got some time left here. Might as well just jump into some notable news. And a rant, I got a rant for you. Okay, okay. So some Google, Google just committed according to Wall Street Journal, breaking exclusive. Google commits $2 billion in funding to AI startup Anthropic. Okay, this is just on the heels of Amazon bragging about this in their earnings call that one of their milestones was their partnership with Anthropic Dave. This is what they're, it was celebrating. It was celebrating, okay. So, major client engagements, major momentum, Anthropic. So, I kind of mentioned this last time, I don't know if it was last pod of the pod before. You know, these companies are kind of sleeping around a little bit Dave on the cloud guys. Like, where is the partnership? Who's partnering with who or is it? I might say sleeping around. You know, it's a metaphor for like, just you can't have three girlfriends, you know, or maybe you can, I guess, in these days, these days and age, but Google, Anthropic, Amazon, Anthropic, you know, open AI, they're not doing any of the deals with anyone, are they? So you got Anthropic playing the field with the, they're taking $4 billion from Amazon, up to $4 billion. So Google invests, this is also Google invests up front into this open AI rival and then offered a $1.5 billion over time. So half a billion now, $1.5 billion over time. So some people are saying that this isn't really an investment, it's just a prepaid on their GPU charges. Well, that's kind of what Amazon, Amazon did, right? Well, I have not confirmed that. That's just speculation, but it makes sense. I'm pretty certain that's what happened. I thought they even said that. Is it like a billion and a half with the opportunity to raise to $4 billion, but it's gonna be funneled into compute resources? Maybe not, I mean, I think that's pretty highly likely. Yeah, so they have the clawed assistant, you know, for them. But here's the thing. Which has GPT. So I went to the ETR data and what I did is I did a filter, I'll publish this weekend on break analysis. I cut 1,100 cloud customers. So these are cloud computing customers. I said, who's AI are you using? So it's filtering by cloud and then the AI platforms. And there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven AI platforms above what is considered a highly elevated level. I have an arbitrary 40%, you know, spending momentum net score above that. Open AI is the highest, followed by Microsoft. AWS is right there on that level. And then Anthropic is right there. Data IQ is there too, a little bit different player, but Anthropic, Databricks, Data IQ, Anthropic, Databricks, Google, AWS, Microsoft, and then Open AI leads everybody in terms of momentum. And they're almost as ubiquitous as Microsoft being called out by IT decision makers. Yes, we're evaluating Open AI, we're spending on Open AI tooling, just like we are. Well, we'll keep an eye on all this. Again, we're gonna go into the rant now because we're getting close to the hour here. We're gonna go over podcasts, a lot of podcast, you're gonna go over. Before you do that, Dave, I just wanna let everyone know that the super cloud thing we're gonna do every quarter. We're gonna have a special super cloud five, okay? Four just happened. We're gonna do a special super cloud five, okay? And this is super important. Reinvents coming up and theCUBE will be broadcasting from our Palo Alto studios. And in live stage performance, like super cloud four, but targeted for all the coverage around the hyperscalers. And Ignite is coming up too. So Ignite will already be gone by then, so we'll do a review of Ignite. We'll live stream during the three days of reinvent, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Maybe throw a little bit of material out Monday. We'll see. But three days of live streaming. We'll have a breaking analysis. We'll be on site at reinvent doing editorial interviews. The Amazon PR team has graciously allowed us to get some space in the press area. We're all, the editorial press interviews will be there. We're gonna be reporting from location back to the studio. And so you're gonna see a whole nother coverage angle of AWS's reinvent plus HPE Barcelona where Rob Streche will be and panel reviews of Microsoft's Ignite unpack that. And then a preview, believe it or not, Google Next is coming around the corner in April. So they just had their Google Next, but then they secured their next venue. So the big cloud players are all getting it on right now. And it's really awesome to see. And as Andy Jassy used to say at AWS, competition makes us better. He loves it. I mean, I don't say he loves competition, likes to win. But Amazon, I expect them to do some things, right Dave? And we talk about that. We don't wanna get into it now, but we just talked a lot about it. But SuperCloud five will be streaming from Palo Alto, California. Dave and I will be on location in Vegas for reinvent. So we're gonna be doing live tosses back or our content tosses back to the studio. We'll be reporting from the field and running the stage performance in studio with Lisa Martin, Savannah Peterson and other special guests in studio. So if you're interested in supporting that, we have sponsorship opportunities. Anyone listening, put the plug in, but it's gonna be great. We already got some great companies that have worked with us last year. Dave was SuperCloud already in sponsoring us. So we really thankful for the great companies that support theCUBE's mission. Who see us as partners and bringing knowledge and certainly with our AI is gonna accelerate. So I just wanna put that plug in. All right, let's get to the rant. All right, so what do you got? I got a chart that I sent Brendan. So he's gonna bring that up here. So the chart said, so investor uncertainty about cloud and AI. So this is, you go back yesterday, Thursday and Amazon was basically down for the day. They were down 1.5% for the day. People were concerned, nervous, the market uncertainty. Okay, and then you can see here, the earnings print hits at like 401. And Amazon beat nicely. I mean, AWS was pretty much on the number maybe a little below, but nice profit. So the stock shoots up. Oh, so that's at the closing bell. Just right after the closing bell. So the closing bell is where the red dot is. And then I say earnings print. So the earnings hit, people read the press release to go, holy cow. This is big profits, a lot of cost cutting. Boom, stock shoots up. Okay. Straight line, by the way, right up. Yeah, straight line. Then by like, I don't know, 405. So here's me. I'm on the plane flying home from super cloud. I got one ear, I'm listening to CNBC. The other one I'm listening to the earnings call with crappy wifi on JetBlue. And so, which my seat was broken, didn't go back. I was pissed, but that didn't matter, was working. So at any rate, you can see here, it starts going down. And what happened was the guy comes on CNBC and he's like, eh, I'm not really bought into Amazon yet. I've been kind of bummed about AWS. They really didn't beat, you know, it's only 12% growth, the deceleration growth, Microsoft's growing much, much faster, Azure at 27, 28%. So I can't get enthused about Amazon until AWS is growing in the high teens and or even 20%. So I tweet out. Now, Jassy hasn't commented. I tweet out, I'm like, well, wait a minute. This is a $90 billion company growing at 12% with 30% operating margins. I mean, that's incredible. That's better than Cisco, almost Oracle-like. So then I hear it's like crappy wifi. So I thought I heard it and then of course it's true. Jassy, we signed several new deals in September with an effective date in October that won't show up in any gap reported numbers for Q3, but the collection of which is higher than our total reported deal volume for all of Q3. Whoa, the analysts hear that. They're like, holy crap. Then all of a sudden, breaking news on CNBC, the same guy comes back. He goes, well, maybe I'm gonna have to re-think Amazon. Like, yeah, no shit. And so then it goes up and close up today like 8%. So people are starting to realize, wow, cloud optimization is not a bug. It's a feature, right? And they can build on top of this. And so, you know, combined with cost cutting. We call that too. Yeah, I think they're gonna show post reinvent. I think they're gonna get momentum. And I think 2024, you know, with the caveat that there's a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world, but then interest rates and so forth. But I think 2024 is gonna be a pretty good year for tech. Yeah, I mean, his comment was such a sandbag in comment. It was so great to hear Jassy kind of game that out like that. And if you look at the chart, the chart actually it's almost a psychology of the market. And I don't need to hammer on CNBC because I like CNBC a lot. But the problem with the CNBC and some of these hot takes from these analysts who didn't, can't, I don't know, did they read 10Ks? Are they not a read financial statements? They don't understand growth. We talked, I was kind of mini ranting about this earlier in the pod, about 12% versus the profit number. You can either make that 30% growth. And I mean, look at lower prices. We had on my LinkedIn, Adrian Cockroach said, hey, just lower prices on egress and you'll get tons of growth. And here's the thing, John, it's not like customers, you know this, it's not like customers saying, you know what, I'm going to go off Amazon and I'm going to migrate into Azure. That's not what's happening. What's happening is Azure's growing because of Microsoft software estate. So don't assume that a higher growth rate for Azure, Azure gaining shares and negative necessarily for Amazon. The thing to watch is Google. Because Google has good AI and Google has good data. And that's one of their bigger risks, in my opinion, for Amazon. If people say, you know what, that Google has a better data platform, it's easier, it's true cloud native, I don't have all these bespoke toolings, that could be a bigger concern. But still, that's a big move. My big critique and rant is that CNBC brings on analysts that actually are giving shallow takes. Okay, they're not going deep enough and don't understand some of the things. And I saw a comment on yesterday during the earnings call, eventually Dietra, who I like, she's a good host and a good reporter on camera as well. She asked the CFO, is this a bottom? It's like, that's a cliche question. Okay. Okay. There are some really good. No, I know. I know. Some of the Wall Street guys. The big guy. It's a good question, but it's the wrong question for Amazon. Tony Sacanagi comes on. He's really good. This is something that we're really good. It's a good question, but not for Amazon, because as you pointed out, cloud optimization is there's a different dynamics than stocks bottoming. Okay, because that's not the dynamic of the cloud because even with AI, if no matter whether Amazon builds apps or not, they still will make money on the I ask portion of whatever they do. So, you know, Amazon and Microsoft are going to print money, right? So again, the rich get richer on this scenario. So there'll be a lot of posturing and my rant is just get better data about the stories. And again, this is why cloud, and we've been covered it for 10 years with the reinvent, you know, 13 years total with the Cuban Silicon angle. It's a hard story to tell anyway. Now you add AI to it, Dave. Amazon, even Amazon's struggling and they're not dumb over there, but they're struggling with the story because what is the story? Cause is it working backwards from the customer or is it AI is the next generation? Do we build our own apps? How do we power the economy? They have too many stories to tell because AI helps everybody. So again, I think there's gonna be an era of story kind of find your way through it and then get the clarity. And that's gonna, I think, we'll start to see that reinvent. I'm not expecting Amazon rep services to have their stories solidified by reinvent. I don't think they had enough time. They rushed some of their announcements out early. I think they'll make steps towards that, but Microsoft has no problem. Their message is clear. Our shit works better with AI. Buy more of it. Hey, I upgrade the license. Any questions? Next 30 bucks. It's like Broadcom with VMware. We talked about that last week. Okay. All right, Dave. Again, great to see you out here. And I just wanna say that super excited about the SuperCloud events we're doing. People love it. They love the format. We're gonna do more of them. Again, we were gonna do it next quarter for SuperCloud five, but given the payload of content that's gonna be coming out of our team coverage, our editorial team coverage of reinvent and combined with Microsoft dropping their content, messaging and announcements at Ignite, we're gonna have to do a special SuperCloud five. So look for SuperCloud five coming quickly. And that's gonna be the reinvent special AWS event, which is kind of an industry event, Dave. So it's interesting. Is it an industry event or is it Amazon's event? Well, it's definitely an ecosystem event, but it's controlled by Amazon. Well, we're in the ecosystem. We will be there in force. Rob Hope will be there. Mark Albertson will be there. Dave will be there. I'll be there. Our team will be there. We're gonna get all that signal. We're gonna suck that pond dry, Dave. We're gonna get it done. All right, John. All right. Thanks.