 So again, welcome, welcome everyone. Thank you for joining us for this Tuesday morning edition of the Tech Deacons Roundtable. My name is Eric Ellie. I am your digital minister for the Southern New England conference. I, we created these Tech Deacon Roundtable so that we can come together and support one another. And so I'm again, as I said before before we started recording, it's nice to see everyone this morning. Let's go around really quick for just in case there's some folks who are new. And introduce yourselves, your name, where your church is, the name of your church. Also, you're the state that you're in because sometimes there's first churches and sometimes there's replicated names. So I found out in New England. So, you know, your name, your church, the state where you're at in digital ministry. And according to my screen, Rich is up first. Okay. Oh, sorry, there's two Richards. Oh, sorry, Richard, Richard Crisman. Hi, I'm Rick Crisman. I'm the interim senior minister at the Elliott Church in Newton, Massachusetts. We presently have a live online Zoom service at 10 o'clock on Sunday mornings. And we're in the process of discussing this live streaming option for when we regather and I don't think we are foreseeing regathering until Labor Day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Jane, would you care to go next? Yeah, but Jane Claiborne, I'm from First Congregational Church of Gardner Mass. I'm one of the tech assistants at our church. We are doing virtual Zoom, virtual live Zoom right now, starting to investigate the possibility of hybrid but don't really have a timeframe yet for that. Thank you, Jane. Yeah, I'm Rich Connolly from First Church of Leverett, Massachusetts. And we're, we worship by Zoom, and we're, we're going to move to hybrid, the choir is already recording. That's, that's not hybrid, but that they do record and that's. And so that's where we are. And this, we'll probably follow the state guidelines closely after they allow us to open. So we're not sure when they open when we'll go hybrid. Wade, Wade, you're next. Oh, sorry. So we did Zoom for six months or so and then changed to live streaming back in November. Then maybe two months ago we started a hybrid services with 12 to 15 people in the sanctuary. Right now we're trying to, we're struggling with how to get our choir back in so they can sing or at least record something that we can play back in our live stream feed. It's the first congregational church in Bethel, Connecticut. Thank you, Wade. Thank you for sharing. Andy, you're up next. Good morning, everybody. I am Andy Burr and at the present time I am the interim pastor of North Congregational Church and Middleborough Mass. Up until February the congregation was doing Tate services and uploaded to YouTube. For people to watch at their leisure and starting in the middle of February, we started doing live Zoom broadcasts from the sanctuary. And we have set up an event bright invitation system for people for 10 people to come to the sanctuary for the service. So I'm not preaching into an iPhone camera, but there are actual people in front of me. Thank you. Thank you, Andy. Eric, you're next. We started out everything we're just doing recorded when everything had to go remote. Slowly we got the infrastructure together to go to streaming live and we were able to start doing that once. And we started with a hybrid. It was like hybrid was sort of allowed at that point. So we had a minor hybrid with like just like a sign up genius for people to come to there. When things started going, call it south again, we went just straight. We actually kind of went to a hybrid pre recorded slash live. So what happens is, you know, our pastor does live and via the OBS, I'm able to put in some pre recorded things. So the organ music. Sometimes we have the choir is able to sing where they pre recorded their segments and melded together and all that. I'm married to the choir director and office manager. So between her and I, we, we work all this stuff out from a technical perspective. She does most of the actual video editing and all that type of stuff. And I work on making sure it goes live. And we pretty much do that to Facebook like every, every week right now. So our pastor doesn't have to, you know, do thousands of takes of things. The, I think we're looking shortly after Easter to go back to a hybrid based on where things are currently going. And when we do that, the organ music will be live again. And we'll have limited people there. We're still not certain about being able to do singing and that type of stuff. But there's at least one more planned choir, you know, multi part thing and yeah, that's where we're at. Thank you. Thank you, Eric. Lorraine. Hi, I'm Lorraine Russell. Everybody calls me Lori Lori Russell. I'm a deacon at the Hope Congregational Church. That's in the Riverside section of East Providence in Rhode Island. And we were totally unprepared for the COVID shutdown. And so we kind of struggled in the beginning. We just basically went out and saw what everybody else was doing. And for a couple of weeks we had to, you know, just watch services that other churches were either live streaming or have reported. And there was an Easter service that the conference did that we had to retake in because unfortunately our pastor got struck with COVID. So once she got back though, she really got on it. She started recording and uploading her own services between her and the music director. So we were 100% recorded services. And then we planned on having an in-person outdoor service for Easter, which that plan went south. So we're stuck yet again. Right now the plan is to just record like we had been doing and this time it would be including some guest soloists. So we were planning on recording it a day or two before Easter and then uploading it again to Facebook because we do not have the capability or the equipment in order to live stream. We are looking into it. But even if we do get the equipment, I'm not sure if we have the Wi-Fi or cell coverage that we would need to do that if we were inside the sanctuary. So we were in the climate weather and we ended up having to go inside because even though we're not having the congregation there, we were still planning on being outdoors, you know, in order to have the soloists in the pastor there to do the service. So we're kind of still in flux less than two weeks before Easter. And then for a long range, we're still, we have the name of a consultant that we have to have come out and actually look at the sanctuary in the church to see what setup we would need, what estimated cost to low end estimated cost to bring us up to, you know, 21st century would be like about $8,000. So we're, we're, you know, we're still working through it, we're nowhere near ready to do anything yet but we got plans. And that's why I'm here. Thank you for sharing, Lorraine. So, I'm a pastor at a church in Western Massachusetts, St. Mark's physical church in East Lungmeadow, and we are planning to have to hold a outdoor worship service on Easter Sunday. I think that was pretty spot on and saying, and very firm to saying, you know, no, no, no in person Easter Easter services. Since they thought would be that the, you know, you, we would get, you know, folks who are, you know, who may be visiting from out of town and that sort of thing and there'd be a course, you know, the load would be higher. So, you know, I believe that we, St. Mark's will be going back into in person, I think we're going to try it maybe. So I guess it's like the common this is the common thing here. We're not quite sure but I think we're looking at Easter to the second, the second Sunday of Easter. So I offer you that we will be pre recording at the eight o'clock service, our standard live stream service on Easter morning, and then playing that, you know, and live stream that out but also go and play that back on at our normal 10am service, the time that we will be outside. Today I want to focus on something a bit different. And I'll just spotlight myself here. Today I offer the following question. In terms of ministry, and the question is what might digital ministry look like apart from the principal Sunday service. Now I asked that, and I'm going to put that also in the chat. I'm going to ask that because most of us, you know, when we when we envision what we're going, what we're doing in digital ministry what digital ministry looks like in our context. We envision, rightly so because of COVID, we envision a solution that centers around the principal Sunday service. And for many folks, that solution may or may not fit with the financial situation that your church is is currently in. So I offer this question as a as a way to get us thinking a little bit outside the box because I think if we if we imagine what we can do. On Monday through Saturday or Monday through Friday, that is that still retains the, the congregation that you've built on a, you know, on the, on the Sunday by Sunday basis, but offer short form video that would be, you know, maybe 1520 minutes long perhaps. That would be a solution to bridge the time as we're going through, you know, a transition into hybrid, or perhaps you may adopt this as your as one aspect of your digital ministry. So, so what do I mean by a service outside of your principal worship service. And for that what I'll do is I'll bring up on screen here a hybrid service snapshot a screenshot of our Facebook post from last Friday. So this is a meditation service that looks nothing like a typical Episcopal. I'm so I'm Episcopal I serve in Episcopal church, but it looks nothing like a standard Episcopal service. The liturgy is very open. It is led by one of our congregants seal who is, you know, who specializes in meditation and reiki and has a passion for it. I think that's a key there. It doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, someone who, you know, from your congregation but as you can see from the from the screenshot. The number of people reached was about 816 if I'm reading that correctly because my teleprompter is a bit away from me, and we have approximately 161 engagements. This is the key is the key metric there the 161 in terms of engagements engagements are actually the number that you would use in Facebook to count as a someone who actually participated. So what that time is in terms of, you know, the length of time they were in worship with you that'll vary greatly. But I put that up there as this so this is a 30 minute service it used to be 15 but it's kind of gotten, you know, a little, a little more lengthy as we went on. And you'll notice something about that post. And that the post has been boosted. So what we do at St. Mark's is we define a geographic area and we I think we were defining that as a geographic area that is approximately 50 miles radius of the church. So our demographics and are targeting with this, you know, with a Facebook ad, we are targeting folks who are, and I'll review some of the keywords into prayer, Christian meditation. I believe this one I believe seal talked about chakras we we included chakras in that energy centers. So again, it is something like completely, you know, completely different. That was 505050 mile. So we were reaching Worcester Hall Baron and that was a big that was for this one, but usually we would do something so I thanks for asking that way. We would do 1515 but we switched it up a little bit this time around and and actually went for a longer distance. So I offer that as a kind of a base for our discussion part of our discussion today to to imagine what would worship look like. You know, and it really did, you know, impact it doesn't, you know, have to be worship it could be, you know, digital ministry in general I know there's an Episcopal priest. In westerly Rhode Island, and that that church there Christ church, they have a community leader come in. I believe it's, I think it's daily Monday through Friday. It's around 12 noon. And they have they they actually, the Sunil father Sunil will come in and interview that person, and he gets quite a, he gets a lot of a lot of interaction and a lot of engagements on that. So, like always I, you know, I step back a bit because I know I've been talking a lot. And I'd like to hear what you perhaps have to what you've been wondering, you know, and, and in this I think I have one of the key parts about this is that this doesn't have to be expensive. Okay, so this would involve a cell phone on a cell phone stand. And for some of this, I mean, usually you've heard me or other, you know, tech folks saying you must hold the phone like this. You know, hold it in, you know, in landscape or in landscape mode. But for some, depending on what your format is like if you're on tiktok. Or if you're on Instagram reels, it would be better to orient the phone in portrait mode. So you have the phone. And you have a, in this case this is like $10, I think it was $10 microphone from that I bought on Amazon. And it's in a little leatherette bag. And it's really simple it's a standard lavalier mic that you can attach to yourself and it has a, you know, like a plug that plugs directly into the cell phone, like so. It's overly complicated. And this, you know, this type of ministry model in terms of, you know, in terms of within digital ministry can provide that kind of that bridge that you that you may be looking for. Also, just a little factoid that short form video. In other words, video that is not an hour long, you know, 15 minutes, perhaps 20 minutes I know it, you know, I've said it before, you know, with our case and at Friday night we went from 15 minutes an hour at 30. So we get we got to watch a little bit. But short short form video is best because people when they're scrolling when you do the idea behind digital ministry in within the context of social media is you want to stop to scroll. And when you do stop to scroll that you want to, you know, make it as short as possible and compact as possible so that people don't scroll out. So, so with that I will unspot like myself and open up the floor to people who have some feedback. Yes, Rick. Thanks, Eric. We exchanged an email about this yesterday I just wanted to get the sense of the group to I did appreciate very much the option to do something besides the the expensive live stream, but I had a question for the other Eric Brestler was it you that said that you're in the sanctuary with someone from Bethel Connecticut first UCC they're 12 to 15 people in the sanctuary. Does that come off acceptably I mean I presume that's a very small number of people for a very large group I was only, and we would have that same situation. And I wondered how that affects the worship dynamic and if the people who are watching the live stream are affected by that. And then I want to come back to Eric ellie after that to say that we're thinking very hard about not short form video but short form audio and go a completely different direction. Anyway, so who was it that was from Bethel Connecticut. Wade would you care to speak to that I believe you're muted. Oh wait yeah there you are. Can't hear you. I don't know what what is going on with zoom these days but I find that space part on mute yourself works about a third of the time. And I didn't quite get Richard I didn't quite get the gist of your question you're talking about 15 or so people in the sanctuary but what was a concern that you had the concern is simply how does that affect the dynamics of worship. When there are so few people in a large space. Do you find that it makes any difference maybe you know you have a, you know the same performance if you will the same presentation you would anyway. Yeah, you know it's it's really hard to generalize on something like that we've got a. I hope a really different situation and that we've got a choir director music director that has got compromised immune system and can't come into the sanctuary for whatever reason. And that, that limitation probably overshadows everything else so she sends in six or seven pieces every week. They come in on an MP3 file I put some pictures behind them and put some lyrics on the hymns and make them into MP4s and we play that and it plays through a monitor in the front of the sanctuary. To get to the point of your question I think as we've got we had 19 people in the room last Sunday. They're all so glad to get out of the house to get to be able to come and see a few people. It's not a very big sanctuary it's maybe 50 feet wide and 100 feet long. It's a big old time on New England construction but that we don't fill the room up in any sense in any stretch the imagination, but people are so glad to come that they find it worthwhile. Now, that said we're probably six weeks into this so I don't know that we've got a trend established yet but it's working pretty well. That's my question I was concerned about just having an empty, almost empty sanctuary. Thank you, Wade. What about, what about the audio idea Eric, Ellie. Well let's go back to the other Eric who had his end up. I think people watched remotely for going like they liked seeing people in the building they liked you know having the option when they could so I wouldn't let it deter you as you were saying in any way to just start opening it up as comfortable and as people are comfortable being able to come there. And I did a similar thing with the audio segment where some of the stuff that I had to do was you know put out as an audio only in the sanctuary, even though we had the video available of the choir members it was the video stream live people in the building only heard the audio because I don't have a monitor in front to put it on. So, but that still was receptive, you know, very well and then when the people went home they sometimes rewatched it, so they can see all the different people's faces doing the singing at the picture so. Yeah, I just wanted you to know that there's other examples. Another example that comes to mind, pretty, pretty quick for me is a service. It's Apple only at this point. It's an app called Clubhouse. And the neat thing about it is, it is conversational. You can set it up in a way that is that will, you know, almost like a webinar where people are muted but I believe the goal of Clubhouse is to get people and bring people together, but only audio only. And it's, I've seen this, I believe about a month ago on CNET, and they were stressing the fact that folks, some folks for some, for some people, they are so kind of like burnt on, you know, going to work and working. You know, and zoom meetings and stuff and people have had it with video that some folks are appreciating audio only. Yes, from Carol it is a isn't it is a Apple, it is a Apple only product at this point they are porting over the and coding for Android. So they will be doing that. So I offer that anybody else. But yes, oh yes Carol, please. We had some conversation we've been struggling with you know we've been we've been pre recording all of our services and premiering them on Sunday mornings on YouTube. And we've been struggling with getting back into the sanctuary where we're going to have an outdoor service on Easter, whether permitting pray for good weather. But yeah, but we know we've been struggling with, you know, what do we do for live, do we live stream do we continue to have, do we have a live service and pre record another service. And, you know, we've just been struggling with that and we have a we have a group that's called the worship and music team which is part of deacons and the subject of prayer time came up in our conversation and talking about you know when you're live streaming how do you how do you make sure people's privacy isn't, you know, put out over the over on YouTube. So, from that conversation, we talked about perhaps having a weeknight prayer time, and maybe that would be a another way of having a digital ministry have a prayer group. So, just another and again that that prayer group could be, you know, again something as simple as phone. Yeah. What we do at a and there are some diocesan practices that we have to follow so we don't. And I'm speaking of my context at St. Mark's. Yeah, we do not use last names in prayer so we do we do collect prayer concerns through chat on Facebook. We do not we do not say even though somebody may say please pray for me, you know, or please pray for, you know, my, you know, my son, my daughter, whoever my friend, and may use a last name. We do not include that, you know, when we when we're at the produce and we're reading that back and as part of the joys and concerns, you know, part of the pastoral prayer. That's something we call like concluding and collect. We do not use the last names we will not include them in there, even if I'm going and nothing that boosts engagement is to welcome folks. So folks who have like said oh good morning everybody you know and they're and they're typing in the in the comments, I'll read their names off as well. But I won't include their last names. Yeah. Now, the, and that's kind of, you know, it's we so we encourage folks just use first names. The other thing you can do which a couple of our churches in our diocese do is we have a closed group. We have a prayer meeting group in the church in some of our churches. So you build a group you know you have your you have your church page and off that church page you build a private group. And, you know, so those so in that case you know when you stream, you know when you turn on your phone or you, or you start OBS whatever you're using whatever your context is wherever you're at. You pointed to that group. No one it's not it's not one it's not public. And to the the cuts in in that group, and it could even be prayer prayer requests with, you know, that are just, you know, typed in in the, you know, in the in post format like you would see on, you know, any anybody's post those all that stuff that's in that group is contained in a group so nobody can see it. And for that, for that particular church I'm thinking about it's it's actually worked well for them, because they have a password protect password protected page website. And not even that it's just a Facebook group that is that it's locked. Oh, and you know, and you probably seen me like to join that group, and then you click on join the group. And it says okay someone will you know the moderator of this group will you know review. Sometimes there's a question. People say okay join group and the private group please answer the following question. You know what is, you know, I think it's like some of them are, you know, are simple like you know, you know, what building what building do you worship and what do you call that and those like church and that that's just, you know, the box out. I missed that you said Facebook I get that now. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a closed Facebook groups. What else has anybody tried a ministry outside of of Sunday outside the Sunday morning principal service. So we, we haven't really done as much with like per se worship things but we've had what else with the church doing so like we have a garden project where there's a spot in the church where there's a effectively a public garden and we want people to come in and help with it and that so we have effectively short go live to say here's the status of it if you want to volunteer get a hold of this person you know that type of stuff and they're able to show it and all those type of things. We've had things even like treasurers telling us how we're doing financially because of course so we're going to that's been a, you know, concern or for having a fundraising thing. We actually had to go digital with the with our, what do you call it again with our annual holiday fair type thing where we usually big fundraiser for us and we actually went with a completely digital like store front thing which, oh my God it's like, we learned all sorts of stuff and some of this will use when we can not have a be a virtual because we'll do pre orders for some things because it lets us know how much stuff we should have and things like that so there's there's a bunch of opportunities I think there for people to engage. Actually for was it ash Wednesday or whatever our priest usually is available, like at the front of the church you can come up and get your ashes, but he didn't want to encourage people to come and gather and do that so he actually did a short thing of how you create your own ashes at home and do it and and be prepared then for the service so you can do you know do this ahead of time and do things so little things like that we've been trying to do for engagement reasons and community reasons. The other thing we also do is after after Sunday church we have a coffee hour. And it's host on Google Meet. And we usually there's people who are there every week that are the runners of it but it's just a chat session just like you'd have coffee hour afterwards normally but now it's virtual and that actually has been useful as well. You know in there and we've occasionally done other ones other meetings like that where for different purposes we get people you know people are getting together, and we facilitate it. So a couple things that we've been doing last year with the riots and the demonstrations that we had. We created a Black Lives Matter prayer walk in front of our church, and we published a URL so that people could come by from the general community. They could hit the URL with their phone, and they could hear recorded prayers recorded this discussions from black community leaders and so forth in our area. And they could meditate on that particular aspect of it while they're walking in a labyrinth that we have on our property. The idea of it is you could do that from wherever we published the URL. So people could do it from home when they go on their own mock walk. So there's similar type of things with labyrinths and meditation walks, where we can publish a URL and people can do something like that. The other thing we did is at Christmas time we had a live nativity scene. Again with a URL with poems and music that people could come from the general community see the see the thing in progress, but then have the URL as an interaction behind the scenes. Nice. Thank you, James. Are any of those URLs available. Could you give us a sample. Perhaps and perhaps a timed out. I mean, because since the event is over. I'll see if I can find one and send that over. Okay. Thank you. Going back to Rick. Rick kisman, did you have a platform that you were looking into in terms of audio only. Well, no, thank you for bringing that up. We hadn't gotten that far. So far, we've only been doing one audio thing I record something I call the one minute minister every week, and we posted on the homepage of the website. It's, it's of course, truth to tell it's never one minute it's usually two to two and a half minutes. Nevertheless, some of our people are listening to it I don't we don't have any way of tracking. If it's even being listened to, but it was an attempt to experiment with this audio non Sunday morning worship to see what what it would be like. And it's, it's an interesting discipline for me to write something that's in the 200 to 300 word range and I really like doing it so I don't feel any compunctions about doing it but I don't know how effective it is what platform would you suggest use it. When we shared of sermons back about four years ago at St Andrews we use SoundCloud. And then we would share the SoundCloud file over Facebook. Yes. I would look at podcasting. If you could that may be a really good way to do it and then people basically subscribe to it too so every time it's put there they'll get a notification know all that type of stuff and it might be very useful. Yeah, Eric that's actually an excellent idea because you know with so you're you're reaching your you know you're leaving, you're leaving the realm of Facebook and YouTube and you're actually going on different other platforms. And you're when you're in, you know to Eric's point when you are podcasting you are there are people who are seeking out those podcasts and will subscribe. What, where do I start do I, what is there a platform or a company or a website that I go to. There is Eric do you have a guy I could. Yeah, I was just going to try to look something up but I don't know. I like, I just haven't done it myself. Right. Oh, thank you James for the for the link. Right, thank you. So I will, what I will do in case unless Jane has something that she's going to offer. Not offer. I will, I will get those resources together for podcasting and and make them available to us. And a podcast is not necessarily inter it's not interactive is it. No, no, okay. I mean it's interactive in the sense that, you know, the, you know, that folks are when, when if you're leading a meditation, let's say, you know, when you're in, when you're leading a meditation, the expectation is that the, you know, the folks who are, you know, or meditating with you won't be meditating, you know, they won't be interacting, you know, they're, you know, doing their thing. So I think so I think something like meditation is kind of one directional, you know, and, you know, so I, you know, if anybody else has any, you know, other things than that. I mean, the things that even at the Friday night meditation and we have again, you know, we don't have to, you know, you don't have to get as fancy as, you know, we, we are at St. I mean, we were using the equipment there because it's there, you know, we don't you don't have to do, you know, all the stuff that we're doing, you know, for for meditation on a Friday night. But I often wonder like, you know, if there's video so it was and I think rich Rick may be onto this, you know, if there's video then the complexity comes up a notch, a production value comes up a notch. And, you know, if you're simply trying to offer meditation, then I always think, and you'll see this if you go to, I'll share the link in a few moments. You'll see that I'll go between the two prayer desks that, you know, myself and seal said that, and then just her, and I keep switching occasionally not like every 15 seconds or anything like that but like, maybe over the course of, you know, three or four minutes between both of them, because I'm wondering like, Okay, now that video is on. Do people does things need to change, you know, in order to keep people's attention, let's say, for example, let's say James has an organ recital. Do you just focus on, you know, the top, you know, four manuals. No, you would, you know, have some b-roll you would do some pedal boards. You know, you would kind of mix it up just to keep the engagement up. But of course that adds in all the complexity, you know, so, you know, when we're talking audio only and podcasting that's, you know, you know, it kind of takes that away takes that stress and takes that kind of buy in away from it. So, and yes, to your point, Rick, you know, as a, as a person who's leads leads worship and who just loves to talk, as you, as you can tell, try getting things condensed to 12 minutes to, you know, five minutes to three minutes to, you know, like I try to talk, you know, before coming on staff, you know, back and back in October, getting into a minute. You know, at least this clergy person has a, you know, like, wow, I'm going to say all that in a minute, you know, and it kind of puts you in a, you know, in a different, you know, discipline. Be concise and be, and be right in which that I'll do that right now. I was going to say for even our Sunday services, we were down like 35 minutes is how they run, typically speaking, we try not to go much longer than that for that kind of that same engagement reason. Now it's a little easier to you don't have the interactions and the switching because it's really just like, you know, really streamlined. And so obviously when you bring people back in, you start having more interactions going to get a little bit longer again. But then it's more interesting because there's more people, you know, so like it's this interesting combination and balancing out. Yeah, that's true. We've found that in our services we've actually had to add points of transition. So we use pieces of artwork in between like the scripture reading and the sermon. And after the sermon, because it seemed like we were just going back and forth between things so quickly, it was disconcerting. So we had to even add some transition points for about 15 to 20 seconds, just to give a nice separation. Yeah, and that's in fact I could bring up an example of that at St. Mark's. You know, last week at the last Saturday at the Technicans Roundtable workshop for Super Saturday, we've run from one end to the of the church, clear to the other end of the church to sing. We both sing live. And so we have, you know, lit candle or incense or a stained glass like something that, you know, Rob Fitzpatrick will pull up, just so you're not here seeing us, you know, front and I always had the, you know, the, the idea of having like, you know, really wide shot, you know me I'm like all about tight shots, but having this wide shot and just just to show like, you know, Sandy and I like buzzing past each other, you know, trying to get to where we're going, you know, you know, kind of kind of snaking around studio lights and that sort of thing. Can I get back in on James's point and, and Eric Bresslers because it occurred to me when they were talking. Being in the sanctuary for service is very different than watching it on the screen and but we're doing both at once in live streaming and does that really work. I mean, you can afford in a sanctuary to have those breaks. Don't we James, you know, those transitions those cues can be a little more spaced out. But boy on screen downtime is deadly. Yeah. Yeah, let me try to pull up that. I'm not sure I'm going to tackle that once, once we're full full live. I mean, yeah, right now I've got the one camera so we just kind of pan over to like the organ and then we kind of pan back over to the pastor and then pan to the person at the other thing but when we did it for a short time but they said it's tough. I don't I don't even have the luxury of cutting between things. I also don't want to make it too difficult for the people to run because otherwise, like there's two of us who can run the system right now. And it's a little more complex because we're popping back and forth pre-recorded and non pre-recorded and all that type of stuff. I want it to be I want more people involved, you know, in case people can't be there and other things and I want it simple so It's a balancing act. Yeah, I mean I would love to make it really complex and just have a really nice system and you know have a you know people on staff to do it but I there's no way that the church doesn't have the budget for that stuff. It's a lot of volunteers for us. Right. Well that's an interesting point both Eric's are making it reminds me of watching a mega church service you know they are a triple plus at the technical and and also at the performance and you know it's very snappy. There's no downtime, but that that requires engineers and someone who writes a script that is very tight. But we don't do that our services are just not structured like that. I'll say even for like when we were transitioning between a lot of non live when he was on when he was going to go off and so we started to have to do like I'm up there and I have to like put my hand like this towards them and he's you know he's watching for me to give him a signal that he's on or off or whatever and it was like oh right of course this makes sense right like I know this from doing this stuff in the past but like you don't think about it right and so he was sitting there and you know he might start going for his water glass or something like oh that's not good you know or or comes back he suddenly looks surprised like oh it's my time to talk again you know. Yeah exactly. So these are the fun things that you you run into and you notice and you're like, oh we can make this better and. Yeah, I think it's funny I mean I even looking back at someone we had some technical difficulties at some of them we've had Mike problems you know whatever it goes on and we can watch as our quality of certain things have improved and other things we still haven't learned. One of the things that would be helpful is if you create a plan or an actual a document if you go through your service. Take this from like a stage production or a play or you know, and so you actually have a plan for who what goes on when and when does that stop and what happens next and so this way here. You can kind of flow it a little bit easier than a sudden awkward cop. Yeah, I posted a different kind of question on the chat line. Oh let me let me check that. Oh discrete lights that pulpit. Not big box lights. Yeah we have big box lights but for in person that's that's not a good idea. Well use them probably on the side and so I'm trying to figure out how to have appropriate lighting at the pulpit. We have a quite experienced minister I've said that before who is pretty high tech to start lives a very high tech end user. But for the audience sitting in the pews the big box lights have to be can't be close to the pulpit. I'm just looking for ideas or brands or any leads you have. So the we are as good that you brought that up for sure because we are faced with that as well at St. Mark's. We have about four studio lights. In front of what we're in front of the, you know, congregation. We also have cameras now we know that for this transition time back into the space. We are, we are saying, and we're kind of, you know, educating the congregation and letting them know that you will see lights. We will see cameras because our cameras are not PTZ cameras. I don't talk about PTZ cameras all the time, but these are stationary cameras on tripods. They're not moving, you know, at least not for the first, you know, a few weeks that we are in in worship together. So we have, you know, we've said to folks, you know, it's the church is not going to look like the same church that you left. And back in March, but I get your point with the box lights and I think one of the things that we went, we moved from box lights to LEDs. And what kind of LEDs. Let me bring that up. In other words, are there strings they come in a string or I just know these are these are these are studio lights. Okay, LED studio lights. Thank you. Yeah. And these LED studio lights cast more light out. Yes. And you could pull you can have them back further than so you don't have to be like right on right on the subject. Okay, but they come in the big box shape or they're now here let me just they're they are smaller they're probably I don't know what size box you're using but let me just bring that up you're really quick. I find it interesting you guys use the box lights and stuff because I, I'm just using the house lighting. I think my video suffers slightly for it but I also don't have the highest and video equipment but but I, yeah, I just, I just go the route of it looks the natural light and the natural look. Right. And I don't try for the television production quality which that's a tough call to though, you know, for things on it because you don't want the people remote to suffer too much but I guess that they never went into the higher quality. I don't have to worry about disappointing them. Right. So, what are the things I pushed. Go on, go on James. So, one of the things you can see some relatively inexpensive lighting solutions by going to sweet water. It's a musicians clearinghouse, and they have a number of different things out there I mean you can get fog and all sorts of stuff that you want to want to do something crazy but they do have some type of lighting which is, you can put back a little bit farther, and it would add some nice overall lighting to this, this space. Thank you I've dealt with sweet water before we, we have a system installed by professionals far younger than I am. And they use the box lights that work extraordinarily well but as I've indicated, we already know that they're really intrusive and because of their size we all we already know that. In other words, telling the congregation they know they've seen pictures and they go no wait a minute it's way, way too big. It's because of the choir, because the choir records at social distancing, the attendees on zoom have already seen the box lights I mean that's not news to them. Right. Thank you. This is, this is what we're using at St. Mark's. So this is, these are lights that are placed off the side. Can you scroll that so I can get the name. Oh, sure. Yeah. Thank you. Yep. There we go. New newer newer newer newer. Advanced. Yeah, I got it. Thank you. Eric, you indicated a Super Saturday that you were going to talk to alter live this week. Yes, in fact, they're meeting with them in two hours. Okay, I mentioned because that's of interest and you're going to know whether you're going to do it next week. Tuesday or even tonight and I, in which case I would let us go over it. If I would attend, you don't have to commit to it. I'm just trying to find out where you're right. So, so what I'm meeting with them today to collect information and then what I'm going to do is I'm going to welcome them into one of our own table discussions and let them present their, their product. Okay. And we'll get a notice. What's that? Yeah, you'll get plenty. We'll schedule out a month or so. Thank you. Thank you all for your time. Yeah, no problem. I, and speaking of time, I want to be mindful of time and mindful of the time that we have together and mindful of your time it is a little past noon. So I don't want to keep you, especially as we come upon the lunch hour. So is there any other questions that we that we that you burning something you want to share with us that we didn't cover yet. Yes, Carol. I just want to jump back to our conversation about interactive kind of sharing ideas. And well, it's too late for this year, I guess, but for Ash Wednesday, we had actually had people from our congregation packaged little, little ashes and little cups with a prayer card. We left it at the church in front of the church in a bin, waterproof bin, and people could pick them up and, and we had our online, we had our online, you know, YouTube service. And people could administer their own ashes. Then also Monday Thursday. We're doing a Zoom service. Tenebrae. Typically what we do is we set up a table in the sanctuary and do a Tenebrae service around a wrong table. But this year we're going to do it all going to sit around the Zoom table and do our, our Tenebrae service. And what you said about, I think it was James said about stage directions, I'm writing the bulletin in including stage directions, especially keeping people muted during it's a more somber solemn service. So we want to make sure there's no, you know, interruption kind of things that break the mood. So I'm writing the entire service with stage directions. One of other ideas were Holy Humor Sunday, which is the Sunday after Easter we have, and last year it was online. And we had people send in video, little video clips of jokes or song, I did a little song, a little funny song about about it. And so we had people send in, you know, different things about that. Also, we have, we used to have our opening gathering music, our music guy Bruce who was here once. We used to do a song called, I forget how it goes now, but there was a part in the song that went yes Lord like that. And, and we had people send in video clips, people doing little clips of people going yes Lord, and their kids and all that stuff. We had people sending in different stuff and there were families that did it and, you know, kids and it was just a way to get people involved in the service. We also did the interactive advent calendar, where every single day of Advent we had a new video. Only pay for what you need with Liberty Mutual. What? The Liberty Mutual ad is somebody's unmuted. But anyway, so we did the, the living advent calendar to where everyone sent in a little video of, you know, some something to do with that and a prayer or song or whatever. There's just some ways to, because we're not in person getting people to, to, you know, get involved. That's awesome. Thank you Carol. Anybody else? One last thing you want to share. It looks good to be with you again this week. We'll see you in in two weeks for the morning session or if you want to join us in the evening that'll be next week next Tuesday at 7pm. So then be kind to one another and most importantly be kind to yourself. Take care. Have a good one. Enjoy the warm weather. Thank you Eric. Thank you.