 George Bruno with the 21 report. We are at the 21 summit in Orlando, Florida. The year is 2020 And I'm welcoming to the show. Mr. Michael Foster welcome. It's good to be here George. Yeah Well, you were on two stages this weekend. You were talking to the patriarchs the Fathers convention and you spoke to women at the 22 convention make women great again Give me a little rundown of what you said to both the stages They were really similar The heart of them are the same with the men I just wanted to encourage them to be fathers to see that the problems in our world is fatherlessness That's where most of them a spring from that's a Satanic sort of evil pressure to destroy men and to rise up against it and And to be the men that we need that I like to say that if men will be fathers boys will be men and the world needs men and more or less I was exhorting women to do the same thing to not believe the lies of feminism that says to be a mother and a housewife is somehow demeaning or below you But it's actually one the highest Collins you could ever have yeah, and to exhort them to embrace motherhood In both cases with some of the people there they're they're later in life and the idea of having kids is is hard So to mother or father where you're at, right? The people are around you start there work your way out So how was the gist of it? When I look at the messages of the different speakers over the weekend you have Jesse Lee Peterson Rebuilding the man you have Steve the Dean Williams you There's a difference between a man in the house and being the man of the house Coach Everett Overton says it all begins and starts with the man. There's a lot of that Man centric teaching going on it's like bringing Authority power and order back to the family again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's good. It's great It's all been encouraging and and that's what we need it all starts with men You have to have a cornerstone. That's the cornerstone of the building that is the household and it's not just men That's what I like about this is that it's not Just centered on you know, we don't want to like overreact It's a feminism and then and then hate women. That's not it. This is about men getting their act together doing what they're made to do and Finding a wonderful helpmate to build something that lasts beyond their life and that's been the message I've heard over and over again. It's been very overwhelmingly positive everyone has different takes here and there but for the most part You know, it's like with cologne you get the initial spray and you smell that and then after that goes away There's that the smell that sticks with you. So if the 21 Summit was a cologne the thing that lasts the lasting scent is is very positive overwhelmingly positive and It's pretty shocking to be honest for someone who's never been here before yeah, and who's a Christian and a lot of folks here Christians with some significant theological differences, but the direction from a cultural standpoint is very encouraging. So yes, yeah Your Organization ministry, I don't know what you call it. It's called it's good to be a man. Yep Yeah, so it's good to be a man several years ago I was getting back in the shape that was jogging and my jog would always end at the Goodman's house So I was like yeah every time I got there I thought it is good to be a man and I was just thinking of Genesis where it says that God made a man in his image male and Female he created them and then dot dot dot it was good, right and in our society there is Not the good type of shame like when you step on a nail your body says ow, right and when you when you Sin you should feel guilt. That's a sort of shame of the soul But we're making people feel to feel ashamed for men for being masculine women for being feminine That I see evil so to have a positive message just to say yeah God made you to be a man embrace it. Love it. This is your God ordain assigned sex From all of eternity and it's what you should be and so don't feel ashamed for being what God made you Femininity looks great on a woman. It looks horrible on a man, doesn't it it does I am really bad at being a mother I am a pretty decent at being a father. So yeah, I Have one of your coffee mugs and the logo on the coffee mug is an axe in a log Is there a significance to that? Sure Well, there's there's a couple different one is a foster is a forester, right? So we cut down trees so that idea of an axe of of being connected to my family lines important to me But there's a one of my favorite drawings is this axe man and he's on top of a hill He's resting on his axe and he's looking over a forest And just the idea of the work to be done the harvest to be brought in and then we also like to pull from Ecclesiastes Where it talks about how you want to keep your axe sharp? And so we're calling men to keep their axe sharp to be committed to good work and building So that's that's where that whole idea came from. It's kind of cool You are a pastor correct in Cincinnati. Yes, okay And this is not a religious event. How did a Christian pastor a Reformed Presbyterian pastor Operate at a non-christian event You know the best part is I mean I've sat down with pickup artists and we've talked to I've talked to guys who told me that they've slept with over like a hundred women in the last couple years and And they've been very frank about how they don't think it's good They don't think it's good for them they don't think it's good for the women and they're wanting to go a different direction and It's pretty easy to operate as a Christian when you're surrounded by people. They're very honest about where they're at So it's easy to have a dialogue Where it's not there's no guile. There's very little show That's been the thing that was stuck with me that was a little surprising, you know You think of pickup artists you think of like The game and Neil Strauss and mystery and all that's this big show peacocking and that's that's what I thought and I thought That we'd have some guys walking around like that and there's not very many at all actually most guys are very open and That's we're at some sort of cultural moment right now where men are like is this it And I think that's what guys have found like to get a woman in bed Is not that hard right it seems hard to people that grew up fatherless and are really clueless But if those people apply themselves they find that they can do it and then it's not satisfying because that's not what man's made for right man is made for God to serve God to be in glory to God and that's that's realized through Building a family building a household have a legacy through the gifts and vocation God's Giving you and you see that hunger for it here And and I'm able to just be straight up with people and talk about as fornication as sin and all that and they're You know, they're very open so it's it has not been as hard as I imagined. It's been much easier Yeah, so yeah, who did you connect with as far as the speakers are concerned? Who who were you drawn to who did you have good conversation with who did you just naturally have good talks with? I like Socrates a whole lot. He's very thoughtful. He's very well read I met his lovely partner his wife. I think it's his wife. She's very sweet and So I like him. I like that. He's looking at things from kind of a bird's-eye view and is mature about it Tanner and I have a ton in common. It's like for everything that we don't have in common We have something else very much in common. Yes, and so his his keynote was really good And I'm just talking about loving his son and and I'm Zach Zach's passion for men So all three of those guys I've really enjoyed talking to I haven't had really a negative Experience here so far. You know, I keep texting my friends. Like this is really strange. This is a really strange experience It's not what I expected. I don't really know fully what I expected, but it wasn't this, you know you and I both have been to men's retreats and men's Bible studies and breakfasts and things like compare this to What you've experienced so what I think is going on what I think the key difference I've been chewing on this this past weekend is that People are coming here Wanting to grow and change or wanting to be exposed, right? So there's guys sitting through these different workshops wanting to know How can I get in better shape? How can I leave my wife? Like why why do I feel so disconnected all that? They're they're coming here with that mindset with a lot of Church conferences sadly people are coming there to display their mastery which they may or may not have and it creates a environment of almost dishonesty and it's so a scripture would call its fear of man and So it's here. There's guys that maybe they're not motivated to get better for God's glory But there's still is a baseline honesty about where they're at Yeah, I also think that Christianity has become overwhelmingly Gnostic by which I mean that it diminishes the importance of the material Gnostic thought the material is created by this lesser demiurge and and and so Christianity a lot of times It's a very practical at all and it doesn't care about the significance of the body Well, that's that's not true here. Everyone is trying to be very practical no matter what they're talking about They'll end with act steps of action. So everything's about moving forward and about growing. I'd like to see more of that At men's conference. We should Christians have the Bible we have God's truth and it's made to make us more like Jesus Christ And it should be very practical. So I think that's the difference. I'd like to see Men's conferences about not just weeping and moping and that sort of stuff But at a place where you can be honest about where you're at and that every year when you come back You've grown more to God's glory in different areas. I'd like to see that and you see guys here like hey Look at you. You've lost all this weight. Look how amazing you look Oh, you're looking sharp and you see that guys are wanting to grow and improve. That's really good You know really good in a culture that's just trying to keep men from having a good solid ambition Keep men Lazy and slothful that you don't find that here and that's that's been really encouraging when I think of missionaries, I think of People being called and going to countries Africa China South America, I don't think about Really specific demographics, but is there a possibility that you're a missionary to men? While you're doing this Well, I'm one of them, right? I'm a I'm a bastard in the sense that I grew up without the loving discipline of a father and As the baton, you know, man has a baton that's handed from one person to the next of the next and So when you're having children and you go to hand the baton, you don't have much to hand them Then you're like, well, what am I gonna do? And as I said in my my speech that we're often husbands and fathers before we've actually become mature men and so So in that sense, I belong to this this this moment in culture where there's a lot of us fatherless guys and Through God's grace. I've had a lot of men come into my life and help me grow And it's been all under the within a Christian worldview It's motivated by the gospel of Jesus Christ and so yeah I think I'm a missionary as much as I'm a brother culturally speaking I'm here and I want them to see that yeah, you can get a six-pack and yeah, you can Get a beautiful woman and a wife But ultimately to do the thing that will truly satisfy you is going to take God, right? It is going you need to have your soul dealt with and so I'm excited to be here I'm it's it's like, you know, usually when you're street preaching you have hecklers, right? I'll have a hecklers, right? Everyone's really respectful. It's all it's all being laid on the table. So it's a it's a wonderful opportunity to share the gospel with guys like this and and men that are So it's thirsty, right? It's everyone's thirsty right here. They're ready for some water and my Lord is Living water right the fount that if you drink from you'll never thirst again So I can I have that to offer, right? It's like Peter Said to you the the beggar is like silver and gold. I don't have but I do have I give to you rise up and stand Well, I don't have all this figured out. I'm leaving here wanting to get in better shape when I come back here next year I will look different. I will have improved But what I do have I will give these men and I know God's word And I'll share with them the hope that they'll find it and that's what I like hope here It's mostly about hope and there's a dark cynical time. It's a weekend of hope, isn't it? It really is just like four days of just Rapid fire hope it's intense You got it you got to go out in the hallway and like stretch your legs a little bit sometimes like midway through You have to almost leave some of the speeches and come back and I gotta do some more of this. Yeah So, yeah, let's shift gears. How does a guy get a girl? How's a guy get a girl? Yeah Well, I think the biggest thing is that if you look at scripture that God makes Adam gives Adam a mission And he sticks him in the garden and and there's all these animals and Adam looks at these animals he's like that's not gonna do it and Then he makes him a helpmate But the biggest thing that Adam had before he ever had a woman was a mission, right? A mission from God to be fruitful and multiply to rule rain and subdue the earth And so that's what we call the creation mandate or sometimes the cultural mandate I think that where guys need to start is they need to put the mission first and Proverbs it talks about before you build a house You prep your field and the guys are building their house without prepping their field Which means the foundation is not good And that's how someone can get married and within the first I had a good friend who married a woman a lot of us Warrant him, but he was divorced within a year very painful Experience to go through he hadn't prepped his field. He didn't have a clear mission He made the woman his mission and women are looking for a man that is worthy of their love And really the way they see that is a man has a worthy mission and so I'd start like hey guys Let's not start with the girl. That's how we get on a lot of trouble That's how you become a husband and a father without being a man Let's start with the mission and so I think that's what I would say is like what gifts have God given you that you can use To bring him glory to to bring his kingdom to bear, you know, you cut hair I've worked in sales and business development. There's so many those areas are our ministries unto the Lord And so I want to see a doctrine of vocation Come back this there's this idea that being a pastor is above all those things But when they're done for God's glory They're all a ministry to the Lord. So I think what are your gifts? Where are you going and then start going there? And then you you find a girl that you filter right you have these filters She has to have the same mission if you're a Christian that means she has to be a Christian or you're gonna be going different directions and You have introduced her to her friends because sometimes you're not the the brightest at filtering and what do you think about her? You know and one of the guys here that was looking to get out of that sort of pickup artistry lifestyle told me that He met this good girl and he was thinking about getting a little more serious And I had the privilege of meeting her and afterwards I told him I was like That's a lovely woman. Yeah, that's if that that sort of woman sent to you That's the direction you should go and so have some standards have some filters Don't get all cynical weird dread game stuff If you have a mission that's worthy a woman will come along you develop Gravitas the way that the Sun keeps the earth in place is that has greater weight greater glory greater Gravitas the way a man will lead a woman is to have that gravitas and too often the men are lazy And they haven't developed it and the woman has more pool than they do in the relationship. It doesn't work in 2017 Zach Small said you need to Invite her to be part of your mission. She is not your mission. That's right mission first brothers always Yeah, yeah, she just want to be your mission. Yeah, that's unfair to her. That's what not what she's made to be and That's so they'll hold the jerk thing right the jerk that doesn't care about her And it's gonna get on the motorcycle and drive away The reason the woman likes that isn't that he's a jerk. It's just that he's going somewhere And he's going there with or without her and she's way to sick. That sounds like an adventure I want to be part of that women, you know This way you realize as a husband if you have a homekeeper like my wife is when you come home from work And she asks you about your day You often don't want to tell her about it because you just experienced it But what she's really asking is what did we do today? Because she makes it possible for me to go out there and do that and she's saying what did we accomplish, right? How'd you do and I learned to say yeah, here's what we did and I'm sharing with her the Accomplishments I have because they're not my accomplishments. There are accomplishments. It's our household And so it's not just enough to get the woman You actually have to keep that mission and you have to keep calling her back into it. So I would agree with Zach You spoke to a room of women. Yes at the 22 convention make women great again. Did you make women great again? I I I did my part. I did what you could do in a couple of minutes, but yeah, I think those women those particular women in that room they Were really warm and encouraging, you know when you when you're a speaker or a preacher You have to find the faces you're some faces that are not very encouraging Yeah, and sometimes people just don't know what they look like when they're listening They look like their map is their thinking face when I looked at into that crowd I mostly saw people shaking their head and I don't know if they got onto the audio audio But I heard a lot of women said yeah, that's right, you know, so So that's promising, right? Men are made to be masculine. It's natural like cats meow dogs bark women are made to be feminine this idea that The government and the feminine imperative all this stuff can stop nature is not true Water will find its level and and women are sick of being men sick of being brash and there's a Turning around there as well. And so I found a very receptive audience by and large Did you find any speakers challenging or? Did you learn something from anyone here? That Do you possess some knowledge now or did someone that you didn't have before you came here or did someone throw the gauntlet down for you? Well, I I was just in Phil Foster's talk and I definitely gonna have my Hormones checked after listening. I was like, yeah, I think I should probably I should do this and and be on top of it You know, it's irresponsible to have your wife always taking care of you need to go to the doctor Right, that's really your experience your body or you're not your experience your responsibility Your body is the tool right and if scripture tells us we're to keep the axe sharp Well, the thing that swings that axe needs to stay strong as well. Yeah, and so listening to those guys talk about health That was really helpful. I'd also say listening to Tanner talk about how they Build the kind of their family culture that was helpful. We've been working on that in our family, but they say we're the You know, what's that? You say guzzy, right? Yeah, I always oh, we're the guzzies. We have fun We do hard things they have these things that they say and and we've been working on that We always say, you know Foster is committed to workmanship strength and wisdom But just thinking through how can I disciple my kids better to have a stronger family culture that's that's centered on scripture and our mission So all those things stirred me up and I've taken a lot of notes and I know I'm gonna You know how inspiration is like when it hits you Tonight and tomorrow I'll be recording a bunch of podcasts for the different podcasts I do just because like I've got content. Yeah, so yeah, I've learned I've I'm leaving with things So and you have a minimum of a dozen guys that I think you could collab with somehow some way Yeah, this is cool. I think I was thinking about trailblazing This is kind of that at least for the reformed Presbyterian part of the world don't don't come here very much you I guess you you beat me but but There's risk you take and and mixing with people And I think what a lot of Christians forget like guys like Whitfield and Benjamin Franklin were close pretty close friends And then and then the respect that people would have for like Aristotle or Socrates and these these are pagans I don't I don't agree with their view of the world at all but The idea that we can't have these conversations with people that differ from us And Calvin himself had talked about hey look if the if the pagans have found something that's useful use it, right? and so That's how I've come here to learn from people use what I can because I think a lot of people are looking at God's world And they're seeing how God has designed and made it and they're deducing those things And they're sharing with the people and so in that sense they're sharing God's general revelation with people and so I can benefit from that and And I Intend to continue to do so, you know you keep mixed company. You're gonna make some people mad You know it's worth it. I think yeah Overall was a good experience for you. Yeah. Yeah, it really has been a great experience I Got to talk to like Jack Donovan and to the late evening and his book the way of men was a excellent book one the better books and and I got to talk to him about Things that you know, I I never thought I'd ever have that conversation I've met some of the fraternity of excellent guys. Those guys are fantastic. It's a real brotherhood and so It's not just it's like it's like the best conferences. It's not just the talks Right, so everything happens in between it and in between it's been really good So yeah, have there been any business or ministry ideas? That sparked inside your head Yeah, thinking like I think I want to do that when I get back home. I want to start something is running I would say just There's a lot of things so what's happened is With there's waves that come in that has stripped away Common knowledge and waves keeps doing that for the last several decades and you start to realize things that have been very helpful to me I'll share them not thinking that it's like some sort of helpful life lesson, and I'll watch someone's eyes light up Oh, that's so helpful. I never thought of that and You know, I might go if that's helpful to them. I want to be helpful to other people So there's like a when that's happened I've written that down. Yeah, and I like okay. I need to research that there's been a lot of talk very interesting about people's relationships with their mothers and a lot of guys have been you know, Jesse was pushing that issue hard and It provoked a pretty intense response in some of the men And so I've already started thinking about that more because I think about things Society does rise and fall with men But women are powerful too and what happens we remove fathers Well, then a woman's left in a place where she's gonna be something she probably ought not be and so I want to understand that better That's certainly a topic that I'll be exploring more just personally and I'll certainly turn into blog posts and podcasts and all that So yeah, you are writing a book. Tell us about that. I am me and my co-author Dominic non-tenant. He's writing it with me. It's gonna be published by cannon press in theory next year I've got I've got two months left to finish this thing We've got I don't know 35,000 40,000 words and just moving things around making sense So it is really kind of a summation of some of the stuff I talked about here or expansion Why are we at where we're at as a culture? What's the spiritual background? So how do we lose masculinity? How do we regain it? And it's all a very biblical view But written in such a way that I think just about anyone could enter into it and be blessed by us There's a lot of big ideas, but we also Try to translate it into things that can be applied into your life. So I'm excited about it I'm excited to have a publisher like cannon press that's willing to roll the dice on us if you were going to Write a review For the 21 convention, what would you say? What kind of blurb would you write? Hmm? That's a good one I would say stirring practical talks Good food and great fellowship. I mean it sounds corny, but that's what it is It's guys hanging out. How can I be a better man? Not? How can I be macho right like we can create a distinction between macho and truly manly? Yeah, these are guys that are trying to be excellent So if you want to be if you want to grow as a man in your finances and your physique and thankfully now also Spiritually, this is a place that you can start to do that. Did you see any toxic masculinity here this weekend? No, not not very much. There's some people that's kind of in the midtown stuff I don't have much patience for that. Yeah, but that's really again Like I said that the the after note. Yeah, it was very positive. Yeah, and in even those guys They're Migtal leaning it wasn't like hating on women. It was more practical and they're cheerful guys So I don't think anyone would think of that as like toxic masculinity as in this sort of the he-man Women-hater club sort of stuff. It's not like that at all. Yeah. Yeah, what is the opposite of toxic? I Natural right I Guess I haven't thought about it You know toxic is a word that we use that we really should just remove from Our our vocabulary you're either a man I would say you're a man or you're not right you're a man or you're a feminine and That's that's the words that scripture likes to use for it And a feminine is when a man takes on The posture and tendency of a woman of a woman and that's that's ugly, right? men are not good at being women and so I Think these women when they see healthy masculinity some of these women out in the world these women that have been Brainwashed and trained by feminism They are scared of that because they see the power right of a man and that scares him And they have to label it something because they don't understand it but it's really just natural masculinity and strong men strong dangerous men men that can be dangerous are The sort of men we need and we were talking about When you go through the airport you see how terribly out of shape America is not just a little bit, you know but like truly like crazy obese and Little arms and everything and that they can't defend their family Not physically and that's kind of a metaphor for their life a lot of times These are guys that are looking at pornography all the time. They're finances are a wreck That's that's toxic masculinity because that's a femicide in the sense that The core of masculinity is taking responsibilities for others to provide to protect to lead And if you won't lead yourself then how can you lead others? You can't give people something you don't have and so toxic masculine masculinity is this a femicide That's all it is If you can't lead yourself you can't lead others a great conversation with Michael Foster. Thank you, sir. Thank you